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The Intrepid
Canada205 Posts
On May 07 2011 23:28 deafhobbit wrote: This build really needs a name - something like "The Kitchen Sink" or "The Everything Rush" I agree with the above suggestion. "The Kitchen Sink Build" would be the perfect name for the build. There is nothing "evil" about serial-cheesing the opponent to death. The late game queen transition vs mech on the other hand ... | ||
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The Intrepid
Canada205 Posts
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Fiel
United States587 Posts
When I watched this game I kept imagining Reality saying, "Oh, you were thinking of moving out of your base? What a silly thought. Let me punish you for that." Then again, Reality used almost everything that's considered excellent about Terran: High amount of options and tech to choose from, being able to build anywhere without support structures, and the ability to see the whole map with ease. | ||
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ymir233
United States8275 Posts
Was the pool that delayed b/c of the pulling drones? It seemed that JD just put it down abnormally late. asdfjkl; this build must be even more frustrating to watch come out of the fog of war than 2fac into wraith/valkyrie at your third base - _______ -; And I don't think JD would really have won even if he was conservative and stayed on three bases only since JD was just so far behind on actually making an army vs. the MnM backtech - that wouldn't really have changed whether he got the fourth then or later since the MnM came in before the fourth/third kicked in at all. | ||
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whiterabb1t
Belgium681 Posts
On May 08 2011 01:59 moktira wrote: VOD: ![[image loading]](http://img112.imageshack.us/img112/1599/vodaz1.gif) Thanks | ||
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whiterabb1t
Belgium681 Posts
I go back and find 5 pages. I was happy because i though zergs are hive-minding a weakness to the build, and terrans are refining it here in discussion, but what??? 4 pages of rubbish gay talk? we should have some sc2 strat guide rule for this kind of stuff. sad day  | ||
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hmmm...
632 Posts
On May 08 2011 07:16 infinity2k9 wrote: This is the kind of shit why T has an overall better winrate in TvZ, as well as having better economic/defensive openings. Jaedong has lost specifically to 8rax -> vulture -> wraith before (vs Iris), now this is just even more added onto that. That's why i doubt if he faces Flash in the final he will win, now matter how good his ZvT looks. He's got the possibility of clever planned builds like the weird +1 Goliath timing or cheeses like this for easy wins, only needs to do that in 1 set to have a nice advantage. Along with dependable 14CC on 2 player maps, going to be very hard to beat if it does come to that. Now people will always say why not just early pool; Simply because it's a coin toss.. sure you might win IF it's 14CC but you're too far behind if it's not. Same reasons why there's barely any ZvT specialists and hardly anyone even gets over 60% in it. You gotta scout and know the best reaction for like 50 different builds, and if you put one foot wrong and lose almost any units or drones -> gg. Meanwhile T can fail and still recover no problems.. and they only have to prepare for a few possible surprise builds, even if there's a few variations. Fast muta's, fast lurkers or speedlings, and none of these are likely going to even be a surprise. Meanwhile they can plan all kinds of devious shit, tech switch repeatedly back mech -> bio -> mech -> bio, proxy buildings, crazy unit combo's that need the exact counter or the Z is instantly evaporated. TITCR. | ||
BLinD-RawR
ALLEYCAT BLUES50754 Posts
On May 08 2011 10:46 whiterabb1t wrote: THE FUCK. I go back and find 5 pages. I was happy because i though zergs are hive-minding a weakness to the build, and terrans are refining it here in discussion, but what??? 4 pages of rubbish gay talk? we should have some sc2 strat guide rule for this kind of stuff. sad day actually it was more like trolling that dude who felt offended of the usage of Gay. | ||
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MountainDewJunkie
United States10346 Posts
Kitchen sink build: cheese into harass into m&m-wraith-valk-tank-vulture The one-of-everything build (aka fast irradiate): That ridiculous 1 rax cc (or 14 cc) build that goes rax->fac->port->facility for fast irradiate to push back muta harass that typically moves towards standard SK or bio-mech. It's not very successful vs competent zergs, yet Flash and fantasy still occasionally experiment with it. Sparks Terran: 3-rax all-in sunken break The Asshole build: The inspiration for the Kitchen Sink's harassment element, I feel. You may have seen this build in the Ro8 of the Avalon MSL, Canata vs Jaedong, game one. It was basically something absurd like 8 rax (overlord sniping or bunker rush attempt), 8 fact with vulture run-by attempt, and 8/9 port for wraith to hunt overlord. When it works, it pretty much ends the game. I think there was a similar game Hwasin vs Hyvaa back in the day. The Combo Breaker: You see it more often today, the 2 fact to 4 rax into goliath+m&m 2 base timing attack. As seen used by Flash and Iris recently. iloveoov fake mech: Self explanatory. Watch Jaedong vs Ganzi to see its effectiveness. THE fantasy build: I mean THE build. Killed GGplay but failed vs Jaedong. 1 rax 1 fac 1 vulture then cc into vulture drop w/ speed. Works great vs 3 hatch muta. Not so much vs 2 hatch muta. Hardly seen these days. 2 port wraith into bio: This build always makes a comeback. 2 factory: ForGG played around with this a couple of games last year. There are others, but those are the ones on the top of my head. | ||
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whiterabb1t
Belgium681 Posts
On May 08 2011 11:14 BLinD-RawR wrote: actually it was more like trolling that dude who felt offended of the usage of Gay. Yet you found it appropriate to still continue. Stop it now please and let's talk BW! Watching the VODs now | ||
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AttackZerg
United States7475 Posts
He played as he it was 100% a sure that a mech follow up was the only possibility which in todays metagame is impossible to ascertain 100%. The nail on the coffin was the lack of speed lords. Without them the wraiths, dropships, and later valks had complete air and therefore map control. No speed lords, no information, no lurkers, over-expanding and lack of adaptablity sealed jaedongs fate. I feel like the game was more of reality outplaying jaedong and less about the build. | ||
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thestool91
672 Posts
On May 08 2011 05:22 xarthaz wrote: Consequentialist premises of definitions are inherently unstable - as they are omnidirectional in regards to information transmit, hence do not constitute a stack based epistemological system, which would be a necessary premise of arguments of definition asymmetries(as was the case here). Now with regards to the OP, it might be said that the fast part were the vult and wraith attack. Hence their use as a positional maneuver(going past defenses) as opposed to the direct attack of marines and the later marine-medic push i was reading this above, and i am complimenting the guy i am quoting. i do not understand half those words and it seems like he has memorized a theasaures. in regards to this gay thing, its pretty stupid for people to say that racism is more harsh than homosexuality. in no way is it "better" to use the term gay in a derogatory term than use the term "gook". but its just embedded into our generation. its sad, and it should be changed. even i use it sadly, but many of us, especially in NA are so used to using that word that we subconsciously ignore what that word really means and who it can affect. anyways, what a GAME! it makes me hate this build more v zerg than i hate 2 port wraith :p | ||
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GG.NoRe
Korea (South)1051 Posts
On May 08 2011 11:33 AttackZerg wrote: I really dislike jaedongs choice of mutalisk into 5 hat. He played as he it was 100% a sure that a mech follow up was the only possibility which in todays metagame is impossible to ascertain 100%. The nail on the coffin was the lack of speed lords. Without them the wraiths, dropships, and later valks had complete air and therefore map control. No speed lords, no information, no lurkers, over-expanding and lack of adaptablity sealed jaedongs fate. I feel like the game was more of reality outplaying jaedong and less about the build. Jaedong had barely enough money by wraiths time. He was saving it for mutas. The end came early i guess, wave and waves of drone kill. He might as well have 3 hatch before pool in that case. Also can't blame JD to go mutas. That was the best option given his situation. He needed to attack already, and lurkers will delay him unnecassarily and will be too risky if reality went wraiths or bio as he did and not mech. Smart game. | ||
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kidcrash
United States623 Posts
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Megaliskuu
United States5123 Posts
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whiterabb1t
Belgium681 Posts
Sorry, what's TITCR? infinity2k9, you have a good point. | ||
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Nazza
Australia1654 Posts
Here's what I've come up with so far: 8 Rax 9 Supply 11 refinery @100% refinery - 3 scvs on gas @ 88 gas pull 2 scvs one by one off gas @100 gas: factory SCV + 3 Marines put some pressure but sacrifice them before factory completes 16/17/18 supply depot, should be started after factory when you have 100 mins and can still have constant scv production @100% factory - Starport - Vulture - Put 2 scvs back on gas 22 supply depot @ 2 vultures: go harass and put down machine shop @ 100% starport: 1 wraith 28 supply depot, 1 SCV making supply throughout @ 100% Wraith: go harass, make control tower @ 100% machine shop: mines, constant vultures until you have 4 @ 100% control tower: cloak @ 4 vultures: drop mines, load into dropship Expo after dropship completes, around 46 supply if you lose nothing, or around 6:30 After expo is up you should put down ebay, more rax, armory and academy. | ||
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