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On May 08 2011 03:41 deafhobbit wrote:Show nested quote +On May 08 2011 03:23 Scarecrow wrote:On May 08 2011 02:11 deafhobbit wrote:On May 08 2011 02:04 Sight- wrote:On May 08 2011 01:56 deafhobbit wrote:On May 08 2011 01:44 Elroi wrote:On May 08 2011 00:44 deafhobbit wrote:On May 08 2011 00:08 Tien wrote:
This build has been used for years now.
Destination was a popular map for terrans to utilize this build.
Nothing new, just the gayest of gay terran builds. Would you mind explaining exactly what this build has to do with homosexuality? Wikipedia for "gay": Adjective
gay (comparative gayer, superlative gayest)
(dated) Happy, joyful, and lively.
(dated) Festive, bright, or colourful.
Pennsylvania Dutch include the plain folk and the gay folk.
Homosexual.
(colloquial) Characteristic of homosexual appearance or behavior (often in a stereotypical sense).
Feminine in behavior, or, non-masculine, behaving in a way associated with females.
(slang, pejorative) Used to express dislike: Lame, uncool, stupid.
This game is gay; let’s play a different one. = I dislike this game; let’s play a different one. This should make it clearer for you. If by wikipedia you mean wiktionary. Learn to cite sources. Also, stop being homophobic. Thank you for saving the universe from the pejorative usage of gay. If not for you, he would never have completely overhauled his vocabulary, recanted his statement, and become a gay rights activist. It's wrong, and people will keep doing it until they come to understand it as unacceptable. If someone referred to a Korean as a "gook" on this forum, people would be all over them, and rightly so. Why should the reaction to other forms of hate speech be any different? Wrong? Get over it. Gook is racist and intended that way. Saying an SC build is gay is not intended as a slight against homosexuals in just the same way that it's not describing the build as festive and colourful. Regardless of what you intend, you're still conflating homosexuality with something negative, which is still homophobic. Calling a build you don't like "gay" and saying you didn't intend it to be insulting to homosexuals is no more legitimate than calling cooking "women's work" and saying you don't intend to be insulting to women. Consequentialist premises of definitions are inherently unstable - as they are omnidirectional in regards to information transmit, hence do not constitute a stack based epistemological system, which would be a necessary premise of arguments of definition asymmetries(as was the case here).
Now with regards to the OP, it might be said that the fast part were the vult and wraith attack. Hence their use as a positional maneuver(going past defenses) as opposed to the direct attack of marines and the later marine-medic push
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The build wasn't really new, I have seen it in proleague before (it normally just gets stomped) so I guess the timing was a little cleaner. There were a few key points in this game; Reality did not scout inside JD's main in the early game (his scouting scv was with his marines) hence didn't know JD's pool timing. JD thought that after he killed Reality's marines with his drones he would no longer continue marine production as NORMALLY zerglings will be out by then (JD's pool was like 16 or 17 supply). However, Reality continued to produce marines and got a few more drone kills+additional delayed mining time. Another turning point was when JD's mutas went into Reality's base just as the cloak wraiths came, I am pretty sure he saw an additional rax but his focus wasn't there I guess, because he had no clue that there was a bio switch coming.
Good build order from Reality, but I think the hair job on JD zapped some of his anti-cheese defense
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On May 08 2011 01:56 deafhobbit wrote:Show nested quote +On May 08 2011 01:44 Elroi wrote:On May 08 2011 00:44 deafhobbit wrote:On May 08 2011 00:08 Tien wrote:
This build has been used for years now.
Destination was a popular map for terrans to utilize this build.
Nothing new, just the gayest of gay terran builds. Would you mind explaining exactly what this build has to do with homosexuality? Wikipedia for "gay": Adjective
gay (comparative gayer, superlative gayest)
(dated) Happy, joyful, and lively.
(dated) Festive, bright, or colourful.
Pennsylvania Dutch include the plain folk and the gay folk.
Homosexual.
(colloquial) Characteristic of homosexual appearance or behavior (often in a stereotypical sense).
Feminine in behavior, or, non-masculine, behaving in a way associated with females.
(slang, pejorative) Used to express dislike: Lame, uncool, stupid.
This game is gay; let’s play a different one. = I dislike this game; let’s play a different one. This should make it clearer for you. If by wikipedia you mean wiktionary. Learn to cite sources. Also, stop being homophobic.
What exactly is your intent in posting in this thread, besides ruining it through pointless derailing and passive-aggressiveness? Do you feel a thread about an interesting build in a recent professional Starcraft game is the correct outlet for your personal moral preachings? There's a time and a place for everything, and though you might self-righteously believe in an ultimate sense of justice and equality that does not give you a soapbox to yell from wherever you please.
I have yet to see this game and I don't really want to any more  Poor JD. I'm pretty curious about the expansion timing though, the 8rax->vult->wraith isn't uncommon and I've done it a lot just to be an asshole but I've never had a timing to expand.
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What games have had this build in them before? I want to see the Vods.
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I've seen some pro cheese before... but what Jaedong faced there is pretty much every Z's worst nightmare. Someone who knows all the timings and has the multi-task to pull off ridiculous cheese while getting ahead.
However, when Jaedong suspects cheese like in game 3? You see what happens when you cheese him once 
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On May 08 2011 01:14 koreasilver wrote:Show nested quote +On May 08 2011 00:42 Mortician wrote:On May 08 2011 00:08 Tien wrote:
This build has been used for years now.
Destination was a popular map for terrans to utilize this build.
Nothing new, just the gayest of gay terran builds. Wrong! The build that was used on desti was forward 8 rax into vulture into mech, this is far more harass based No, 8rax into vult into 2port wraiths was used in Destination. Leta did it back then along with various Terrans on iCCup. That build and this build aren't the same though. Cloak timings are different, there's a dropship, different transitions, etc.
I remember a long while ago this build was popular on... say, Blue Storm? 8 rax into vulture/proxy vulture into wraiths. Dropship transition is an interesting one though
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Damn, I would rage so hard if went against this on iccup.
I've dont no if i've ever seen so many tech switches in so little time.
I know 8 rax used to be a fairly standard opening to transition to a standard goliath-tank mech.
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T>Z in the aspect that T has the ability to really dictate the opponents play. Always feel zerg is more the reactionary race when playing vT.
T has so many different builds they can choose whereas Z is a bit limited. and cheese options for zerg are also straightforward....
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This is the kind of shit why T has an overall better winrate in TvZ, as well as having better economic/defensive openings. Jaedong has lost specifically to 8rax -> vulture -> wraith before (vs Iris), now this is just even more added onto that.
That's why i doubt if he faces Flash in the final he will win, now matter how good his ZvT looks. He's got the possibility of clever planned builds like the weird +1 Goliath timing or cheeses like this for easy wins, only needs to do that in 1 set to have a nice advantage. Along with dependable 14CC on 2 player maps, going to be very hard to beat if it does come to that. Now people will always say why not just early pool; Simply because it's a coin toss.. sure you might win IF it's 14CC but you're too far behind if it's not.
Same reasons why there's barely any ZvT specialists and hardly anyone even gets over 60% in it. You gotta scout and know the best reaction for like 50 different builds, and if you put one foot wrong and lose almost any units or drones -> gg. Meanwhile T can fail and still recover no problems.. and they only have to prepare for a few possible surprise builds, even if there's a few variations. Fast muta's, fast lurkers or speedlings, and none of these are likely going to even be a surprise. Meanwhile they can plan all kinds of devious shit, tech switch repeatedly back mech -> bio -> mech -> bio, proxy buildings, crazy unit combo's that need the exact counter or the Z is instantly evaporated.
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The thing is Reality's execution was actually a bit lacking, in terms of things like vulture micro. It could have been even WORSE
^_^
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I'm not too impressed by this build actually.., you just have to hit precise scourge micro, without drops this build falls apart., also you should not go mutas but mass hydras with range+speed instead.
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United States10569 Posts
DANG!!! that's like how I used to play. even if the cheese went wrong, still cheese as hard as i could until either he made mistakes and i won, or if he just eliminated me xD
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On May 08 2011 08:12 SkytoM wrote:
I'm not too impressed by this build actually.., you just have to hit precise scourge micro, without drops this build falls apart., also you should not go mutas but mass hydras with range+speed instead.
Well you could do this...
If you knew it was coming. Having a build like this in your arsenal is nearly criminal because I am pretty sure that if he went hydra he'd done siege tank instead of cloak / valk.
It would transition to that just as easily
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One stroke of brilliance that I noticed is at one point Reality had like 1-2 marines and 4 medics. He made the medics first so by the time he was ready to push they would be overloaded with energy. He knows the wraith/valkyrie can deter muta harass with turrets so he doesn't need to pound marines early.
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didn't he have +1 attack for his rines too?
i'm interested to see if others adopt this
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Netherlands45349 Posts
Impressive execution of the build imo, but I can see it be highly risky.
Ow yeah, I approve of your sig.
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This build is like the Terran version of The Stove....except the Zerg in me raged SOO hard even though it was Khan player. I literally went like "RAAAWR!!!" in my room when I see so much cheese done to Jaedong.
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On May 07 2011 22:46 whiterabb1t wrote:
... that 12 years after this game was created, one would expect that everything has been figured out already...
I really hardly doubt that ..
Good post
On May 07 2011 22:46 whiterabb1t wrote:
This build is like the Terran version of The Stove....
I had the same first thought  in particular - marine rush <- the zealots , the vulture <- like the scout, <- then wraiths <- arbiters etc
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On May 08 2011 09:14 krzych113 wrote:Show nested quote +On May 07 2011 22:46 whiterabb1t wrote:
... that 12 years after this game was created, one would expect that everything has been figured out already...
I really hardly doubt that .. Good post Show nested quote +On May 07 2011 22:46 whiterabb1t wrote:
This build is like the Terran version of The Stove....
I had the same first thought in particular - marine rush <- the zealots , the vulture <- like the scout, <- then wraiths <- arbiters etc
The stove is actually bad though rofl
The counter to scouts is turrets, so DTs are a horrible transition. Then going arbiter when you're so gas starved you have to skip observers? lol
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EPT
