• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EDT 08:47
CEST 14:47
KST 21:47
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
TL.net Map Contest #21: Voting10[ASL20] Ro4 Preview: Descent11Team TLMC #5: Winners Announced!3[ASL20] Ro8 Preview Pt2: Holding On9Maestros of the Game: Live Finals Preview (RO4)5
Community News
BSL Team A vs Koreans - Sat-Sun 16:00 CET6Weekly Cups (Oct 6-12): Four star herO85.0.15 Patch Balance Hotfix (2025-10-8)80Weekly Cups (Sept 29-Oct 5): MaxPax triples up3PartinG joins SteamerZone, returns to SC2 competition32
StarCraft 2
General
The New Patch Killed Mech! TL.net Map Contest #21: Voting Revisiting the game after10 years and wow it's bad Stellar Fest: StarCraft II returns to Canada herO Talks: Poor Performance at EWC and more...
Tourneys
Sparkling Tuna Cup - Weekly Open Tournament SC2's Safe House 2 - October 18 & 19 $1,200 WardiTV October (Oct 21st-31st) WardiTV Mondays RSL Offline Finals Dates + Ticket Sales!
Strategy
Custom Maps
External Content
Mutation # 495 Rest In Peace Mutation # 494 Unstable Environment Mutation # 493 Quick Killers Mutation # 492 Get Out More
Brood War
General
BW caster Sayle BSL Team A vs Koreans - Sat-Sun 16:00 CET BW General Discussion Question regarding recent ASL Bisu vs Larva game [Interview] Grrrr... 2024
Tourneys
[ASL20] Semifinal B SC4ALL $1,500 Open Bracket LAN [Megathread] Daily Proleagues [ASL20] Semifinal A
Strategy
Current Meta BW - ajfirecracker Strategy & Training Relatively freeroll strategies Siegecraft - a new perspective
Other Games
General Games
Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread Dawn of War IV Path of Exile Nintendo Switch Thread ZeroSpace Megathread
Dota 2
Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion LiquidDota to reintegrate into TL.net
League of Legends
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Deck construction bug Heroes of StarCraft mini-set
TL Mafia
TL Mafia Community Thread SPIRED by.ASL Mafia {211640}
Community
General
US Politics Mega-thread Russo-Ukrainian War Thread Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine Men's Fashion Thread Sex and weight loss
Fan Clubs
The herO Fan Club! The Happy Fan Club!
Media & Entertainment
Series you have seen recently... Anime Discussion Thread [Manga] One Piece Movie Discussion!
Sports
Formula 1 Discussion 2024 - 2026 Football Thread MLB/Baseball 2023 NBA General Discussion TeamLiquid Health and Fitness Initiative For 2023
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
SC2 Client Relocalization [Change SC2 Language] Linksys AE2500 USB WIFI keeps disconnecting Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread
TL Community
The Automated Ban List Recent Gifted Posts
Blogs
The Heroism of Pepe the Fro…
Peanutsc
Rocket League: Traits, Abili…
TrAiDoS
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 1514 users

Head-to-head records

Forum Index > BW General
Post a Reply
Normal
Ampleaf
Profile Joined November 2010
21 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-11-24 07:48:34
November 23 2010 11:14 GMT
#1
To give a wider perspecive on current and past BroodWar scene, I made statistical overview of head-to-head achievements between Bonjwas and (to show the level of Lee-Ssang dominance),
Flash and Jaedong records against KeSPA Top 20 for November 2010.

Spoilers contain Win/Lose timeline of each rivalry.

Enjoy!



RANDOM FACTS
  • Flash and Jaedong already played more games aganst each other than Boxer and Nada.
  • Flash has even records with Stork and Best, but doesn't have any losing record vs Top 20.
  • Despite Jaedong's sick ZvP, he has losing records against both Bisu and Stork.
  • Kal managed to lose ten (!) consecutive games to Jaedong.
  • Iloveoov managed to beat Nada nine times in a row.
  • Flash eats Pure for breakfast.
  • Jaedong eats Stats for breakfast.




I. BONJWAS HEAD-TO-HEAD+ Show Spoiler +
AND AGAINST FLASH & JAEDONG, FOR THOSE WHO WANT TO BITCH HERE

(T)BoxeR
vs (T)NaDa: 20-21 (-1) (48,78%): + Show Spoiler +
LLLWLLLWWLWWWWLWLLWWLWLLLWLWWWLWLWWWLLWLL
vs (T)iloveoov: 4-5 (-1) (44,44%): + Show Spoiler +
LLLWWWLLW
vs (Z)sAviOr: 1-6 (-5) (14,29%): + Show Spoiler +
LLLLLLW
vs (Z)Jaedong: 0-2 (-2) (0,00%): + Show Spoiler +
LL
vs (T)Flash: 1-1 (0) (50,00%): + Show Spoiler +
WL


(T)NaDa
vs (T)BoxeR: 21-20 (+1) (51,22%): + Show Spoiler +
WWWLWWWLLWLLLLWLWWLLWLWWWLWLLLWLWLLLWWLWW
vs (T)iloveoov: 6-17 (-11) (26,09%): + Show Spoiler +
LWLWLLLWWLLLWLLLLLLLLLW
vs (Z)sAviOr: 11-14 (-3) (44,00%): + Show Spoiler +
WLLLLLWLWLLLWWLWLWWWWLWLL
vs (Z)Jaedong: 1-5 (-4) (16,67$): + Show Spoiler +
LLLWLL
vs (T)Flash: 0-2 (-2) (0,00%): + Show Spoiler +
LL


(T)iloveoov
vs (T)BoxeR: 5-4 (+1) (55,56%): + Show Spoiler +
WWWLLLWWL
vs (T)NaDa: 17-6 (+11) (73,91%): + Show Spoiler +
WLWLWWWLLWWWLWWWWWWWWWL
vs (Z)sAviOr: 1-6 (-5) (14,29%): + Show Spoiler +
LLLLLWL
vs (Z)Jaedong: 2-2 (0) (50,00%): + Show Spoiler +
LWWL
vs (T)Flash: 0-3 (-3) (0,00%): + Show Spoiler +
LLL


(Z)sAviOr
vs (T)BoxeR: 6-1 (+5) (85,71%): + Show Spoiler +
WWWWWWL
vs (T)NaDa: 14-11 (+3) (56,00%): + Show Spoiler +
LWWWWWLWLWWWLLWLWLLLLWLWW
vs (T)iloveoov: 6-1 (+5) (85,71%): + Show Spoiler +
WWWWWLW
vs (Z)Jaedong: 4-5 (-1) (44,44%): + Show Spoiler +
LWLWWLLLW
vs (T)Flash: 6-12 (-6) (33,33%): + Show Spoiler +
WLLLWLWWWLLLLLLWLL


(Z)Jaedong
vs (T)BoxeR: 2-0 (+2) (100,00%): + Show Spoiler +
WW
vs (T)NaDa: 5-1 (+4) (83,33%): + Show Spoiler +
WWWLWW
vs (T)iloveoov: 2-2 (0) (50,00%): + Show Spoiler +
WLLW
vs (Z)sAviOr: 5-4 (+1) (55,56%): + Show Spoiler +
WLWLLWWWL
vs (T)Flash: 20-23 (-3) (46,51%): + Show Spoiler +
LLWWWLWLLWLWWWLWWLLWWLLWLWWLLLLLWWLLWWLLWLL


(T)Flash
vs (T)BoxeR: 1-1 (0) (50,00%): + Show Spoiler +
LW
vs (T)NaDa: 2-0 (+2) (100,00%): + Show Spoiler +
WW
vs (T)iloveoov: 3-0 (+3) (100,00%): + Show Spoiler +
WWW
vs (Z)sAviOr: 12-6 (+6) (66,67%): + Show Spoiler +
LWWWLWLLLWWWWWWLWW
vs (Z)Jaedong: 23-20 (+3) (53,49%): + Show Spoiler +
WWLLLWLWWLWLLLWLLWWLLWWLWLLWWWWWLLWWLLWWLWW




II. FLASH AND JAEDONG vs KeSPA TOP 20

(T)Flash
vs (Z)Jaedong: 23-20 (+3) (53,49%): + Show Spoiler +
WWLLLWLWWLWLLLWLLWWLLWWLWLLWWWWWLLWWLLWWLWW
vs (T)Fantasy: 12-6 (+6) (66,67%): + Show Spoiler +
LWWWLLWWWWLWWWWLLW
vs (P)free: 13-4 (+9) (76,47%): + Show Spoiler +
WLWWWWLWWWWWLWWLW
vs (T)Sea: 6-1 (+5) (85,71%): + Show Spoiler +
WWLWWWW
vs (P)Kal: 8-2 (+6) (80,00%): + Show Spoiler +
WWLWWWWLWW
vs (T)Light: 6-1 (+5) (85,71%): + Show Spoiler +
WWWWWLW
vs (P)Bisu: 12-9 (+3) (57,14%): + Show Spoiler +
WWWLLLWWWWWWLLLLLWLWW
vs (Z)Calm: 5-4 (+1) (55,56%): + Show Spoiler +
LLWLWWWWL
vs (Z)ZerO: 4-2 (+2) (66,67%): + Show Spoiler +
WLWLWW
vs (P)Stork: 11-11 (0) (50,00%): + Show Spoiler +
LLLLWLLWLLWWWWWLWLLWWW
vs (T)HiyA: 10-3 (+7) (76,92%): + Show Spoiler +
LWWWWWWLWWLWW
vs (Z)Action: 2-0 (+2) (100,00%): + Show Spoiler +
WW
vs (T)fOrGG: 6-4 (+2) (60,00%): + Show Spoiler +
WLLLWLWWWW
vs (T)BaBy: 3-1 (+2) (75,00%): + Show Spoiler +
WWWL
vs (P)Pure: 6-0 (+6) (100,00%): + Show Spoiler +
WWWWWW
vs (Z)RorO: 3-0 (+3) (100,00%): + Show Spoiler +
WWW
vs (P)BeSt: 4-4 (0) (50,00%): + Show Spoiler +
LLLWWWWL
vs (P)Stats: + Show Spoiler +
NO GAMES YET


(Z)Jaedong
vs (T)Flash: 20-23 (-3) (46,51%): + Show Spoiler +
LLWWWLWLLWLWWWLWWLLWWLLWLWWLLLLLWWLLWWLLWLL
vs (T)Fantasy: 8-7 (+1) (53,33%): + Show Spoiler +
WLLWWWLLLLWWWWL
vs (P)free: 10-8 (+2) (55,56%): + Show Spoiler +
WWLWWLLLLWWWLWLLWW
vs (T)Sea: 9-7 (+2) (56,25%): + Show Spoiler +
WLWLWLWWLLWLLWWW
vs (P)Kal: 15-4 (+11) (78,95%): + Show Spoiler +
WLWWWLLWWWWWWWWWWLW
vs (T)Light: 12-9 (+3) (57,14%): + Show Spoiler +
WLWWLWWLWWLLLWWWLLWWL
vs (P)Bisu: 7-8 (-1) (46,67%): + Show Spoiler +
LWWWLWLLWLWWLLL
vs (Z)Calm: 5-4 (+1) (55,56%): + Show Spoiler +
WWLLLWWLW
vs (Z)ZerO: 12-5 (+7) (70,59%): + Show Spoiler +
WWWWLWWWWLWLWWWLL
vs (P)Stork: 12-13 (-1) (48,00%): + Show Spoiler +
LLLWWLLWWWWWLWWLLLLWLLWWL
vs (T)HiyA: 2-0 (+2) (100,00%): + Show Spoiler +
WW
vs (Z)Action: 2-0 (+2) (100,00%): + Show Spoiler +
WW
vs (T)fOrGG: 1-4 (-3) (20,00%): + Show Spoiler +
LLLWL
vs (T)BaBy: 4-3 (+1) (57,14%): + Show Spoiler +
WWWLLLW
vs (P)Pure: 1-0 (+1) (100,00%): + Show Spoiler +
W
vs (Z)RorO: 7-1 (+6) (87,50%): + Show Spoiler +
LWWWWWW
vs (P)BeSt: 5-2 (+3) (71,43%): + Show Spoiler +
LWWLWWW
vs (P)Stats: 6-0 (+6) (100,00%): + Show Spoiler +
WWWWWW

Dominance? I think so.
"Twelve Gateways…. which is a standard transition after the double Observatory opening." - Day[9]
Ampleaf
Profile Joined November 2010
21 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-11-24 07:47:05
November 23 2010 11:16 GMT
#2
Thanks Manifesto7!
"Twelve Gateways…. which is a standard transition after the double Observatory opening." - Day[9]
Manifesto7
Profile Blog Joined November 2002
Osaka27154 Posts
November 23 2010 22:02 GMT
#3
Moved to BW.
ModeratorGodfather
night terrors
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
China1284 Posts
November 23 2010 22:13 GMT
#4
Bisu and Stork stick out from those records.

Best too, against Flash.

And Calm? What the hell?
Through high and low, bisu boy, through high and low.
revy
Profile Joined September 2009
United States1524 Posts
November 23 2010 22:35 GMT
#5
Good stuff but how on earth could you leave out Boxer v Yellow. It's probably a horribly uneven head to head but its just so important.
Ideas
Profile Blog Joined April 2008
United States8136 Posts
November 23 2010 22:42 GMT
#6
On November 24 2010 07:13 night terrors wrote:
Bisu and Stork stick out from those records.

Best too, against Flash.

And Calm? What the hell?


yea calm has surprisingly strong results vs JD and flash lol

poor kal :\
Free Palestine
Holgerius
Profile Blog Joined January 2009
Sweden16951 Posts
November 23 2010 22:46 GMT
#7
Flash is imba.

Stork is a baller. 50-50 vs Flash and winning record vs JD. ^__^

Interesting to see that JD has a losing record vs all the other TaekBangLeeSsang players. O_o
I believe in the almighty Grötslev! -- I am never serious and you should never believe a thing I say. Including the previous sentence.
Xiphos
Profile Blog Joined July 2009
Canada7507 Posts
November 23 2010 22:48 GMT
#8
I want to see Flash vs Bisu! When is the next KT vs SKT match? Oh gawd scratch that, when is the next MSL final!
2014 - ᕙ( •̀ل͜•́) ϡ Raise your bows brood warriors! ᕙ( •̀ل͜•́) ϡ
Stenstyren
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
Sweden619 Posts
November 23 2010 22:48 GMT
#9
On November 24 2010 07:35 revy wrote:
Good stuff but how on earth could you leave out Boxer v Yellow. It's probably a horribly uneven head to head but its just so important.


Yellow a bonjwa? I think not.

Interesting read, especially the savior vs. Nada scores
MageKirby
Profile Joined July 2009
United States535 Posts
November 23 2010 23:13 GMT
#10
Bug Time Attacker is hard counter to the Dong?!!!!?!!?
2Pacalypse-
Profile Joined October 2006
Croatia9517 Posts
November 23 2010 23:26 GMT
#11
That Bonjwas list is missing some green color :/
Moderator"We're a community of geniuses because we've found how to extract 95% of the feeling of doing something amazing without actually doing anything." - Chill
seRapH
Profile Blog Joined April 2009
United States9775 Posts
November 23 2010 23:28 GMT
#12
On November 24 2010 08:13 MageKirby wrote:
Bug Time Attacker is hard counter to the Dong?!!!!?!!?

Arena MSL? :D

I love that series ^_^
boomer hands
AssiRoyal
Profile Blog Joined May 2009
Germany216 Posts
November 23 2010 23:35 GMT
#13
sry i dont get it - who is bug time attacker???
LunarDestiny
Profile Blog Joined August 2008
United States4177 Posts
November 23 2010 23:37 GMT
#14
On November 24 2010 08:35 AssiRoyal wrote:
sry i dont get it - who is bug time attacker???

ForGG. Map imba and crazy timing made 3-0 happened.
seRapH
Profile Blog Joined April 2009
United States9775 Posts
November 23 2010 23:38 GMT
#15
On November 24 2010 08:35 AssiRoyal wrote:
sry i dont get it - who is bug time attacker???

He won the Arena MSL finals 3-0 vs Jaedong. This is when Jaedong was already good.
boomer hands
Black Gun
Profile Blog Joined July 2009
Germany4482 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-11-23 23:40:04
November 23 2010 23:39 GMT
#16
On November 24 2010 08:35 AssiRoyal wrote:
sry i dont get it - who is bug time attacker???

forgg. before flash finally "broke" jd last season, jd had never lost a major finals before except that one against forgg in the arena msl.

the general consensus is that forgg was in the form of his life at that time and that the mappool was ridiculously t>z biased.

until his recent loss streak in tournament finals against flash, jd has had a record of some 20-ish to 3 in bo5 series. these 3 losses were to rock in the challenge league finals, to forgg in the arena msl finals and to calm in a 2009 msl semis.
"What am I supposed to do against this?" - "Lose!" :-]
Holgerius
Profile Blog Joined January 2009
Sweden16951 Posts
November 23 2010 23:41 GMT
#17
On November 24 2010 08:37 LunarDestiny wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 24 2010 08:35 AssiRoyal wrote:
sry i dont get it - who is bug time attacker???

ForGG. Map imba and crazy timing made 3-0 happened.

Map imba also made him smash Flash 3-1. ^__^
I believe in the almighty Grötslev! -- I am never serious and you should never believe a thing I say. Including the previous sentence.
soujiro_
Profile Joined June 2010
Uruguay5195 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-11-23 23:46:27
November 23 2010 23:46 GMT
#18
nice data, thanks for sharing it

forgg > jd ezpz
ace hwaiting!!
AssiRoyal
Profile Blog Joined May 2009
Germany216 Posts
November 23 2010 23:53 GMT
#19
ah lol i didnt even see the 1-3 record
Xiphos
Profile Blog Joined July 2009
Canada7507 Posts
November 24 2010 00:00 GMT
#20
On November 24 2010 08:41 Holgerius wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 24 2010 08:37 LunarDestiny wrote:
On November 24 2010 08:35 AssiRoyal wrote:
sry i dont get it - who is bug time attacker???

ForGG. Map imba and crazy timing made 3-0 happened.

Map imba also made him smash Flash 3-1. ^__^


AND he is 6-3 against Bisu! lol

Its nice to see this organized list.
2014 - ᕙ( •̀ل͜•́) ϡ Raise your bows brood warriors! ᕙ( •̀ل͜•́) ϡ
razorsuKe
Profile Blog Joined July 2008
Canada2000 Posts
November 24 2010 00:11 GMT
#21
should stick effort in there, his osl win against flash is pretty significant.
EntusGalleries.com - CJ Uniform Sale
Thorin
Profile Blog Joined November 2009
601 Posts
November 24 2010 00:53 GMT
#22
On November 24 2010 07:35 revy wrote:
Good stuff but how on earth could you leave out Boxer v Yellow. It's probably a horribly uneven head to head but its just so important.


Actually:

BoxeR's map record vs. YellOw (all competitions): 33 wins - 31 losses (51.56%)
BoxeR's map record vs. YellOw (individual competitions): 28 wins - 26 losses (51.85%)
Black Gun
Profile Blog Joined July 2009
Germany4482 Posts
November 24 2010 00:54 GMT
#23
On November 24 2010 09:53 amarillo wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 24 2010 07:35 revy wrote:
Good stuff but how on earth could you leave out Boxer v Yellow. It's probably a horribly uneven head to head but its just so important.


Actually:

BoxeR's map record vs. YellOw (all competitions): 33 wins - 31 losses (51.56%)
BoxeR's map record vs. YellOw (individual competitions): 28 wins - 26 losses (51.85%)


yea, basically boxer was owning yellow at all the "official/important" events like osl, msl and so on, while yellow was owning boxer at the "inofficial/fun" events.
"What am I supposed to do against this?" - "Lose!" :-]
Roffles *
Profile Blog Joined April 2007
Pitcairn19291 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-11-24 00:59:09
November 24 2010 00:58 GMT
#24
Nada vs iloveoov: 6-17 (-11) (26,09%)

Rofl

Kal's stats vs JD and Flash are just fucking lol.
Jaedong vs Kal: 15-4 (+11) (78,95%)
Flash vs Kal: 8-2 (+6) (80,00%)
God Bless
Trezeguet
Profile Blog Joined January 2009
United States2656 Posts
November 24 2010 01:00 GMT
#25
On November 24 2010 08:37 LunarDestiny wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 24 2010 08:35 AssiRoyal wrote:
sry i dont get it - who is bug time attacker???

ForGG. Map imba and crazy timing made 3-0 happened.

To me the understated bit is that they were teammates. We all know the dong is better, but perhaps after getting beat over and over ForGG found a chink in his armor.
FuRong
Profile Joined April 2010
New Zealand3089 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-11-24 01:09:13
November 24 2010 01:03 GMT
#26
I'd be interested to see Bisu and Stork's head to head record vs Kespa's Top 20, since they seem to be the ones doing best against JD/Flash.

Edit: Also, you have to keep in mind that these are results spanning an entire career. For example, if you check JD vs Stork it seems pretty even with both players trading wins and losses, but if you look at Flash vs Stork then you can see Flash took a lot of losses early in his career but has been dominating their recent encounters.
Don't hate the player, hate the game
chongu
Profile Blog Joined February 2009
Malaysia2593 Posts
November 24 2010 01:04 GMT
#27
On November 24 2010 09:58 Roffles wrote:
Nada vs iloveoov: 6-17 (-11) (26,09%)

Rofl

Kal's stats vs JD and Flash are just fucking lol.
Jaedong vs Kal: 15-4 (+11) (78,95%)
Flash vs Kal: 8-2 (+6) (80,00%)


Lololololololol. i think Kal is a prime example of a player that beats lesser players easily but crumbles to better ones. Still don't really get the reason why though? - more like playstyle or more due to nerves?
SC2 is to BW, what coke is to wine.
Black Gun
Profile Blog Joined July 2009
Germany4482 Posts
November 24 2010 01:07 GMT
#28
On November 24 2010 10:04 chongu wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 24 2010 09:58 Roffles wrote:
Nada vs iloveoov: 6-17 (-11) (26,09%)

Rofl

Kal's stats vs JD and Flash are just fucking lol.
Jaedong vs Kal: 15-4 (+11) (78,95%)
Flash vs Kal: 8-2 (+6) (80,00%)


Lololololololol. i think Kal is a prime example of a player that beats lesser players easily but crumbles to better ones. Still don't really get the reason why though? - more like playstyle or more due to nerves?



kal is a good but not oustanding player that is very consistent. bisu and stork both are much more inconsistent than kal, but they are both able to elevate their play to levels which are inaccessible for kal, but necessary to take down players like flash or jd.

its the same thing with leta or sea: they consistently beat lesser players because of few fluctuations in their form, but their top play isnt strong enough to compete with monster players.
"What am I supposed to do against this?" - "Lose!" :-]
Emon_
Profile Blog Joined November 2009
3925 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-11-24 01:26:57
November 24 2010 01:25 GMT
#29
On November 24 2010 08:38 seRapH wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 24 2010 08:35 AssiRoyal wrote:
sry i dont get it - who is bug time attacker???

He won the Arena MSL finals 3-0 vs Jaedong. This is when Jaedong was already good.

Were they on the same team back then?

I'm surprised Bisu is holding up vs. Flash so well. Maybe it was during the time when Flash wasn't as solid as he is today

Thanks for the great post!
"I know that human beings and fish can coexist peacefully" -GWB ||
Taekwon
Profile Joined May 2010
United States8155 Posts
November 24 2010 01:26 GMT
#30
I think the Flash has only one losing record to a player - Skyhigh. Granted he isn't top 20 but his TvT is simply surreal.
▲ ▲ ▲
seRapH
Profile Blog Joined April 2009
United States9775 Posts
November 24 2010 01:29 GMT
#31
On November 24 2010 10:25 Emon_ wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 24 2010 08:38 seRapH wrote:
On November 24 2010 08:35 AssiRoyal wrote:
sry i dont get it - who is bug time attacker???

He won the Arena MSL finals 3-0 vs Jaedong. This is when Jaedong was already good.

Were they on the same team back then?

I'm surprised Bisu is holding up vs. Flash so well. Maybe it was during the time when Flash wasn't as solid as he is today

Thanks for the great post!

Yes they were. Which made it so much funnier.
boomer hands
Grobyc
Profile Blog Joined June 2008
Canada18410 Posts
November 24 2010 01:34 GMT
#32
Woah wtf, forgg is 4-1 vs the dong?
If you watch Godzilla backwards it's about a benevolent lizard who helps rebuild a city and then moonwalks into the ocean.
zenMaster
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
Canada761 Posts
November 24 2010 02:37 GMT
#33
Dong would completely molest forGG if they were ever to play now.
Holgerius
Profile Blog Joined January 2009
Sweden16951 Posts
November 24 2010 02:47 GMT
#34
On November 24 2010 11:37 zenMaster wrote:
Dong would completely molest forGG if they were ever to play now.

Forgg molested JD last Proleague season. That's not too far back in time.
I believe in the almighty Grötslev! -- I am never serious and you should never believe a thing I say. Including the previous sentence.
Xxio
Profile Blog Joined July 2009
Canada5565 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-11-24 02:57:22
November 24 2010 02:56 GMT
#35
Jaedong -1 vs Bisu. mhm. that's right.

Oov +11 Nada, damn.

KTY
vectorix108
Profile Blog Joined July 2010
United States4633 Posts
November 24 2010 03:07 GMT
#36
I wish forgg would return to his arena msl form....
Aka XephyR/Shaneyesss
Xiphos
Profile Blog Joined July 2009
Canada7507 Posts
November 24 2010 03:08 GMT
#37
On November 24 2010 11:47 Holgerius wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 24 2010 11:37 zenMaster wrote:
Dong would completely molest forGG if they were ever to play now.

Forgg molested JD last Proleague season. That's not too far back in time.


I remember someone on TL saying that ForGG's style counters JD's style perfectly. I think its true, before JD would go into something REALLY aggressive but nowadays, he'll attempt to rush thing to the hive tech rather than keep his aggression. ForGG's timing push is the exact style that's needed to take down the Dong's current style. I'll even put more money on ForGG in beating Jaedong more than Flash.
2014 - ᕙ( •̀ل͜•́) ϡ Raise your bows brood warriors! ᕙ( •̀ل͜•́) ϡ
Black Gun
Profile Blog Joined July 2009
Germany4482 Posts
November 24 2010 03:34 GMT
#38
On November 24 2010 10:26 Taekwon wrote:
I think the Flash has only one losing record to a player - Skyhigh. Granted he isn't top 20 but his TvT is simply surreal.



nope, flash also has a losing record against yarnc, 3-4.
"What am I supposed to do against this?" - "Lose!" :-]
aimaimaim
Profile Blog Joined March 2010
Philippines2167 Posts
November 24 2010 03:45 GMT
#39
On November 24 2010 08:26 2Pacalypse- wrote:
That Bonjwas list is missing some green color :/


Bonjwa list need KTSHIN!
Religion is a dying idea .. || 'E-sport' outside Korea are nerds who wants to feel like rockstars. || I'm not gonna fuck with trolls on General Forum ever again .. FUCK!
kassi
Profile Joined April 2010
United States290 Posts
November 24 2010 07:10 GMT
#40
Wow, amazing list. Thanks OP =) On a side note, I'm surprised Top 20 has so many protosses (in a good way). It's split 8T, 5Z, 7P. It's more even than I thought.

It's scary seeing how dominant Flash really is though. Only Jaedong, Bisu, Calm, and Best are in 50s against him. With Jaedong you see he has a winning record but by less of a percentage on average. And wow, Pure is 0-7 for Flashdong combined (maybe that's why he did nothing for my fantasy team last season...)
Mumei
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
United States257 Posts
November 24 2010 07:34 GMT
#41
So, 134 - 72 for Flash and 138 - 98 for Jaedong against people in the current top 20. And a large percentage of their losses come from each other and Bisu/Stork.
Manit0u
Profile Blog Joined August 2004
Poland17384 Posts
November 24 2010 07:49 GMT
#42
I'm not sure if Savior should be listed as bonjwa any more. After all, all of his titles were revoked after the match-fixing scandal.
Time is precious. Waste it wisely.
Gummy
Profile Blog Joined October 2010
United States2180 Posts
November 24 2010 08:10 GMT
#43
On November 24 2010 16:49 Manit0u wrote:
I'm not sure if Savior should be listed as bonjwa any more. After all, all of his titles were revoked after the match-fixing scandal.

Who's savior? I've never heard of this guy before. Was he a major progamer?
¯\_(ツ)_/¯ There are three kinds of people in the world: those who can count and those who can't.
CakeOrI)eath
Profile Blog Joined September 2009
United States327 Posts
November 24 2010 08:56 GMT
#44
I'm really surprised Flash is only 12-9 vs Bisu. I've always considered PvT to be Bisu's worst match-up by far and yet he still holds a 43% winrate vs the best Terran in the world. Pretty good considering Flash stomps every other P besides Stork and Best.
Opportunities multiply as they are seized.
OpticalShot
Profile Blog Joined October 2009
Canada6330 Posts
November 24 2010 09:03 GMT
#45
Stork's +1 vs. JD is from that awesome in-your-face-gateways game, YEAHH!
[TLMS] REBOOT
nerium
Profile Blog Joined November 2007
Philippines512 Posts
November 24 2010 09:59 GMT
#46
On November 24 2010 16:49 Manit0u wrote:
I'm not sure if Savior should be listed as bonjwa any more. After all, all of his titles were revoked after the match-fixing scandal.


Yeah it was revoked, but you can't deny his dominance at that time and it will never be forgotten. After all, the term bonjwa is made because of him.
Lulz is a corrupted version of LOL
lastreason
Profile Joined May 2010
Romania250 Posts
November 24 2010 11:06 GMT
#47
hihihi stork is the best player vs flash , gogo dinotoss you're the only one who can beat flash
Guybrush
Profile Blog Joined December 2002
Spain4744 Posts
November 24 2010 11:23 GMT
#48
Good job Ampleaf!

Flash has losing record to these guys (standard leagues only)

(T)Flash vs:

(P)Stork
(T)UpMaGiC
(Z)YellOw[ArnC]
(P)HerO_V_
(P)TesteR
(T)sKyHigh
(P)M18M

Flash record 22.11.2010

Some are only one game but others are more like Stork, UpMagic, Yarnc and Skyhigh. Also many of these are retired now so he cant "redeem" himself . Anyways quite impressive.
Live2Win is awesome. Happy new year scarabi!
Taekwon
Profile Joined May 2010
United States8155 Posts
November 24 2010 12:36 GMT
#49
Seeing how my previous post was refuted, lemme rephrase. Although Flash may have losing records to some progamers, I think Skyhigh is the only one who has a legitimate shot at maintaining a winning record against Flash should they face each other. His TvT is just too awesome.
▲ ▲ ▲
Black Gun
Profile Blog Joined July 2009
Germany4482 Posts
November 24 2010 22:06 GMT
#50
On November 24 2010 21:36 Taekwon wrote:
Seeing how my previous post was refuted, lemme rephrase. Although Flash may have losing records to some progamers, I think Skyhigh is the only one who has a legitimate shot at maintaining a winning record against Flash should they face each other. His TvT is just too awesome.

flashs tvt also is godlike when he is in good form. 4 games are not quite a reliable sample size.... i think he and flash would go about 50:50 in the long run....

"What am I supposed to do against this?" - "Lose!" :-]
okum
Profile Blog Joined February 2009
France5778 Posts
November 24 2010 22:09 GMT
#51
On November 25 2010 07:06 Black Gun wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 24 2010 21:36 Taekwon wrote:
Seeing how my previous post was refuted, lemme rephrase. Although Flash may have losing records to some progamers, I think Skyhigh is the only one who has a legitimate shot at maintaining a winning record against Flash should they face each other. His TvT is just too awesome.

flashs tvt also is godlike when he is in good form. 4 games are not quite a reliable sample size.... i think he and flash would go about 50:50 in the long run....

If they have to play a Bo101 and it gets dead even, Flash will just offrace as protoss and win.
Flash fan before it was cool | Coiner of "jangbang"
Crisium
Profile Blog Joined February 2010
United States1618 Posts
November 24 2010 22:33 GMT
#52
Nice stat collection! I love this stuff, keep it up.
Broodwar and Stork forever! List of BW players with most Ro16, Ro8: http://tinyurl.com/BWRo16-Ro8
Black Gun
Profile Blog Joined July 2009
Germany4482 Posts
November 24 2010 22:43 GMT
#53
On November 25 2010 07:09 okum wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 25 2010 07:06 Black Gun wrote:
On November 24 2010 21:36 Taekwon wrote:
Seeing how my previous post was refuted, lemme rephrase. Although Flash may have losing records to some progamers, I think Skyhigh is the only one who has a legitimate shot at maintaining a winning record against Flash should they face each other. His TvT is just too awesome.

flashs tvt also is godlike when he is in good form. 4 games are not quite a reliable sample size.... i think he and flash would go about 50:50 in the long run....

If they have to play a Bo101 and it gets dead even, Flash will just offrace as protoss and win.

loooool.

i think ive heard that flashs offrace protoss is really really strong... like... low A-teamer level.... which would be easily enough to beat skyhigh....^^
"What am I supposed to do against this?" - "Lose!" :-]
ArvickHero
Profile Blog Joined October 2007
10387 Posts
November 24 2010 23:40 GMT
#54
On November 25 2010 07:43 Black Gun wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 25 2010 07:09 okum wrote:
On November 25 2010 07:06 Black Gun wrote:
On November 24 2010 21:36 Taekwon wrote:
Seeing how my previous post was refuted, lemme rephrase. Although Flash may have losing records to some progamers, I think Skyhigh is the only one who has a legitimate shot at maintaining a winning record against Flash should they face each other. His TvT is just too awesome.

flashs tvt also is godlike when he is in good form. 4 games are not quite a reliable sample size.... i think he and flash would go about 50:50 in the long run....

If they have to play a Bo101 and it gets dead even, Flash will just offrace as protoss and win.

loooool.

i think ive heard that flashs offrace protoss is really really strong... like... low A-teamer level.... which would be easily enough to beat skyhigh....^^

I remember him totally wrecking Best's T in an offrace showmatch lol
Writerptrk
Black Gun
Profile Blog Joined July 2009
Germany4482 Posts
November 24 2010 23:54 GMT
#55
On November 25 2010 08:40 ArvickHero wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 25 2010 07:43 Black Gun wrote:
On November 25 2010 07:09 okum wrote:
On November 25 2010 07:06 Black Gun wrote:
On November 24 2010 21:36 Taekwon wrote:
Seeing how my previous post was refuted, lemme rephrase. Although Flash may have losing records to some progamers, I think Skyhigh is the only one who has a legitimate shot at maintaining a winning record against Flash should they face each other. His TvT is just too awesome.

flashs tvt also is godlike when he is in good form. 4 games are not quite a reliable sample size.... i think he and flash would go about 50:50 in the long run....

If they have to play a Bo101 and it gets dead even, Flash will just offrace as protoss and win.

loooool.

i think ive heard that flashs offrace protoss is really really strong... like... low A-teamer level.... which would be easily enough to beat skyhigh....^^

I remember him totally wrecking Best's T in an offrace showmatch lol



well, i dont think bests T is very good. best has a playstyle of throwing units at the opponent, which is pretty much the worst thing u can do as T in tvp....
"What am I supposed to do against this?" - "Lose!" :-]
wswordsmen
Profile Joined October 2007
United States987 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-11-25 00:12:40
November 25 2010 00:05 GMT
#56
On November 24 2010 17:10 Gummy wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 24 2010 16:49 Manit0u wrote:
I'm not sure if Savior should be listed as bonjwa any more. After all, all of his titles were revoked after the match-fixing scandal.

Who's savior? I've never heard of this guy before. Was he a major progamer?

We don't talk about savior.

+ Show Spoiler +
Savior is/was a zerg who managed to make it to 5 MSL finals in a row (won 3) and won an OSL he is/was considered the 4th bonjwa. The 5th MSL finals he made it to he was expected to stomp the then unknown Bisu into the ground, but ended up losing 0-3 to the then revolutionary Bisu build.

The reason you never heard of him is because he was involved with a game fixing scandal and had his titles taken from him, that and he didn't play to well for the last couple years (with a couple of exceptional periods).

Hopefully you get the joke now.
ccHaZaRd
Profile Joined February 2009
Canada1024 Posts
November 25 2010 00:06 GMT
#57
man flash and jaedong are literally untouchable
deafhobbit
Profile Blog Joined July 2010
United States828 Posts
November 25 2010 00:59 GMT
#58
On November 24 2010 09:54 Black Gun wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 24 2010 09:53 amarillo wrote:
On November 24 2010 07:35 revy wrote:
Good stuff but how on earth could you leave out Boxer v Yellow. It's probably a horribly uneven head to head but its just so important.


Actually:

BoxeR's map record vs. YellOw (all competitions): 33 wins - 31 losses (51.56%)
BoxeR's map record vs. YellOw (individual competitions): 28 wins - 26 losses (51.85%)


yea, basically boxer was owning yellow at all the "official/important" events like osl, msl and so on, while yellow was owning boxer at the "inofficial/fun" events.


I've always thought that a lot of it has to do with Yellow aging better than Boxer. He just seems to have adapted far better to modern play, and still is in good enough condition to execute it. So far, he's 7-11(38%) in 2010, with wins against Jaedong, Leta, and Calm. With his age and limited practice time on Ace, that's a solid record, and he could probably get back up to 45 to 50% once he leaves Ace if he wanted too.
I cheer for underdogs and Flash
zobz
Profile Joined November 2005
Canada2175 Posts
November 25 2010 01:46 GMT
#59
(Z)great (P)Stats (T)Ty
"That's not gonna be good for business." "That's not gonna be good for anybody."
Guybrush
Profile Blog Joined December 2002
Spain4744 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-11-25 18:20:43
November 25 2010 17:01 GMT
#60
Did the same with Jaedong and Bisu as with Flash in the post above just for fun

(Z)Jaedong losing rec vs (standard leagues only) :

(P)TesteR
(T)Casy
(T)Silent_Control
(P)free[gm]
(T)Sheis
(P)Stork
(T)Flash
(P)Rock
(Z)815
(T)Freedom
(T)FrOzen
(P)BackHo
(T)fOrGG
(P)Tempest
(T)firebathero
(Z)Orion
(Z)s2

Jaedong record 24.11.2010

(P)Bisu losing rec vs (standard leagues only) :

(Z)s.s.m~[Silver]
(Z)Rumble
(T)Goodfriend
(T)fOrGG
(P)RainBOw
(T)Casy
(T)Flash
(T)ChRh
(P)Stork
(T)iloveoov
(Z)ZerO
(P)Chalrenge
(T)Memory
(Z)by.hero
(P)GuemChi
(T)Fantasy
(P)Violet
(T)go.go
(P)SeCret
(T)Bogus
(Z)Killer
(Z)Juni
(P)Tempest
(P)Kal
(P)Stats

Bisu record 24.11.2010

Fun facts:
(P)TesteR has a winning record vs both (T)Flash and (Z)Jaedong.
(P)Stork has a winning record vs (T)Flash, (Z)Jaedong and (P)Bisu. (mentioned in the thread already)
(T)Casy, (T)fOrGG (T)Flash and (P)Tempest have winning records vs both (Z)Jaedong and (P)Bisu.
(T)fOrGG is 5-1 against (P)Bisu, and 4-1 against (Z)Jaedong.
Of the 7 (4P, 2T, 1Z) players (T)Flash has losing record against 4 are retired.
Of the 17 (6P, 8T, 3Z) players (Z)Jaedong has losing record against 6(5? (T)Casy?) are retired.
Of the 25 (9P, 10T, 6Z) players (P)Bisu has losing record against 12(11? (T)Casy?) are retired.
5 KT players have winning records vs (P)Bisu((T)Flash,(T)fOrGG,(P)Tempest,(P)Violet,(P)Stats)
Live2Win is awesome. Happy new year scarabi!
Scaramanga
Profile Blog Joined March 2008
Australia8091 Posts
November 25 2010 17:20 GMT
#61
Wait wait wait, just a hot second here
Jaedong aint no bonjwa, there can only be one
other than that, awesome thread
Loda talked about the fun counter, it's AdmiralBulldog on his natures prophet
Normal
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
Sparkling Tuna Cup
10:00
Weekly #110
ByuN vs SolarLIVE!
herO vs TBD
CranKy Ducklings260
IndyStarCraft 244
LiquipediaDiscussion
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
mouzHeroMarine 564
IndyStarCraft 244
Railgan 58
MindelVK 23
StarCraft: Brood War
Horang2 2456
Barracks 1139
Hyuk 951
Soma 666
Hyun 641
firebathero 521
Larva 429
Stork 344
sSak 304
Pusan 294
[ Show more ]
Mini 247
Last 244
actioN 227
PianO 223
Light 218
ZerO 215
ggaemo 128
Mong 122
Backho 117
hero 71
Sharp 52
Sea.KH 52
sorry 48
Sacsri 36
ToSsGirL 33
Rush 25
JulyZerg 22
zelot 16
scan(afreeca) 16
Noble 13
IntoTheRainbow 9
Icarus 5
Dota 2
Gorgc6041
qojqva1106
Pyrionflax235
League of Legends
JimRising 306
Counter-Strike
x6flipin486
oskar89
Heroes of the Storm
Khaldor240
Other Games
singsing2379
B2W.Neo836
DeMusliM378
Sick204
Fuzer 181
Happy168
Trikslyr25
ZerO(Twitch)13
Organizations
StarCraft: Brood War
CasterMuse 30
lovetv 14
StarCraft 2
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
sctven
[ Show 13 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• Adnapsc2 15
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• LaughNgamezSOOP
• Migwel
• sooper7s
StarCraft: Brood War
• BSLYoutube
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
Dota 2
• C_a_k_e 2151
League of Legends
• Jankos2471
Upcoming Events
Safe House 2
4h 13m
IPSL
6h 13m
Sziky vs Havi
Artosis vs Klauso
Monday Night Weeklies
1d 3h
WardiTV Invitational
1d 22h
WardiTV Invitational
2 days
Tenacious Turtle Tussle
3 days
The PondCast
3 days
WardiTV Invitational
4 days
Online Event
5 days
RSL Revival
5 days
[ Show More ]
RSL Revival
5 days
WardiTV Invitational
5 days
Afreeca Starleague
6 days
Snow vs Soma
Sparkling Tuna Cup
6 days
WardiTV Invitational
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

Acropolis #4 - TS2
WardiTV TLMC #15
HCC Europe

Ongoing

BSL 21 Points
ASL Season 20
CSL 2025 AUTUMN (S18)
C-Race Season 1
IPSL Winter 2025-26
EC S1
Thunderpick World Champ.
CS Asia Championships 2025
ESL Pro League S22
StarSeries Fall 2025
FISSURE Playground #2
BLAST Open Fall 2025
BLAST Open Fall Qual
Esports World Cup 2025
BLAST Bounty Fall 2025
BLAST Bounty Fall Qual

Upcoming

SC4ALL: Brood War
BSL Season 21
BSL 21 Team A
BSL 21 Non-Korean Championship
RSL Offline Finals
RSL Revival: Season 3
Stellar Fest
SC4ALL: StarCraft II
CranK Gathers Season 2: SC II Pro Teams
eXTREMESLAND 2025
ESL Impact League Season 8
SL Budapest Major 2025
BLAST Rivals Fall 2025
IEM Chengdu 2025
PGL Masters Bucharest 2025
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2025 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.