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DragonDefonce
United States790 Posts
On October 09 2010 00:28 Garaman wrote: if they shut down bw, i hope out of spite they ban sc2 in korea. it would be apt revenge, and denies blizzard a market how sweet would it be =) this is regarding to weisels post This isn't china, we don't ban shit out of spite. | ||
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FishForThought
Canada88 Posts
The government obviously won't do anything bad to blizzard and affect future trade with foreign companies. Personally, I think korea should just make a new class of product called 'e-sport applications', if a game reaches certain popularity, the developers can reclassify their product as an 'esport application' which gives korean broadcasters/tournament organizers free right to use and in return, the developers get perks like tax breaks and other advantages. I didn't take law, so i dunno how viable that would be but it sounds good on paper as it gives developers incentives to give free of use. :-). Right now, I find it interesting that people negotiating rather 'starve' than to eat a smaller quantity. So what if you can't broadcast at the same time as GSL? At least you are broadcasting and still making some money. Ah well, that's Asian culture for you. | ||
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KameZerg
Sweden1767 Posts
On October 07 2010 22:06 0neder wrote: Well, Morhaime is right, and Kespa should acknowledge the law/rules, but they don't, so we have to deal with it as is. What if the law makes no sense AT ALL? Im questioning the core basis of Intellectual Property rights right now | ||
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bRuTaL!!
Finland588 Posts
On October 09 2010 00:22 Garaman wrote: this is why i can't stand sc2 fans who dont know crap. blizzard only loves esports as long as they don't have to do anything (gretech is carrying out their will) and it helps them sell THEIR CURRENT GAME. they don't care for developing a long term scene. they just need it to promote one game and move on to the next. having a healthy BW scene exeplifies that games are not just fads, that a good game can be a vehicle for continual investment for corporations and legitamizes esports. I disagree, Blizzard is one of the few developers that think about theyre games on a longterm (longterm for games anyway) base. Its why they are so succesful. Its been like 12 years since BW came out. WoW for 6? Diablo and Warcraft-series. All have been out for 7+ years. They develop games as long as it takes to make them monster hits before releasing them. Starcraft 2 is better for sponsors anyway since so many of them are hardware manufacturers, hard to sell your product to people that dont need it. I do agree however that "a healthy BW scene exeplifies that games are not just fads..." and that Blizzard is intrested in esports to sell their games (like saying Im intrested in a job because I get a salary, doh). On October 09 2010 00:22 Garaman wrote: so, basically, you are saying that when you watch a great game in bw (i'm not even sure you have watched one, but who knows), it is blizzard that is creating such a thing of beauty? i mean if you look at a virtuoso pianist, they are playing on a piano (bought and paid for, but made by steinway or other companies) but the company who made the piano should own the music and recording rights of albums due to the fact it was on THERE piano that they SOLD to whoever? it isn't the instrument that is creating such great music, just like in BW, it isn't the game producing the epic games, it is the skill and craft of the players themselves. go watch BW between two sc2 noobs and tell me the game is so great to watch, blizzard is the reason why it's so great. no, it's the players creative skill that results in the epicness. I believe BW had a EULA where they reserved the rights and only sold you a license to play, you do not own the game itself. Where as the piano is completely and undenyably yours. With BW you only have a license. And again, this not my OPINION, it is a fact. Whether I think its right or not, this is how its and its the same for most intangible products, like movies, other games, music etc. You are allowed to listen to it or whatever but without proper permission not use it for commercial purposes. On October 09 2010 00:22 Garaman wrote: BW is not breaking down. sure they lost a sponsor, and a few OVER THE HILL players, but on the most part, the scene is still strong. people still watch the games. companies are still willing to invest in it. you talk about how GSL over the span of a year is a 2million dollar prize pool. how much is the BW scene costing them? 6-8 major tournaments, proleague finals, proleague mini finals throughout the season, renting out the venues, playing almost every other night, paying salaries of countless players, (you really don't expect ppl like hiya to not get paid do you? or are you just that naiive) , prize pools, traveling cost, living expenses, food expenses, annual trips for the teams, etc etc etc etc etc. it trumps all that GSL is doing for the scene. no, blizzard/activition are fools if they think they can take GSL out of the korea. there are not enough ppl willing to sponsor a tournament like that, RTS just aint popular in the west, not enough for corporations to pay for advertisements on TV. blizzard aint willing to build up an esports scene. all they care about is hype, and that ppl buy the games. they will do the bare minimum to do so, which is creating ONE LEAGUE via PROXY, but if it aint meant to be, they will pull the plug faster than anyone. I dont think it would be impossible for BW to survive. At first I thought it might happen by 2011 fall but now it looks to be happening more quickly. Im most suprised about how quickly players like Boxer, NaDa and Moon have "jumped ship". When leaving BW achieves "Critical Mass" (trademarked by me, Ill sue if you quote this!!!) itll go quite quickly. As long as players trust that there will be a next season, BW is relatively safe. Sc2 is like US during gold rush, nothing guaranteed but you have a chance to do something great. Those who have it good dont go, those who want to risk it will. Many SC2 are all ready being paid a salary thought the salaries are far from BWs as well as their expenses paid. And I dont think GSL will be going anywhere. Its a HUGE success. 6000-10 000 ($120 000- 200 000 total) westerners paying $20 bucks for a season as well as sponsors like Intel and TG Sambo for a first season and now everything is probably going to more than double for the next season. 2500 players of which 250 foreigners, signed up for the prelims. On October 09 2010 01:21 zenMaster wrote: Bwhahaha. Sorry I couldn't help it. Funniest thing I've read in a while. Facts amuse you? You DO know that the best 32 players of the first 3 GSL Opens will be Code S players and 33-96th will be Code A players? Nothing to do wtih BW... If you did, oookay then. | ||
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Seiniyta
Belgium1815 Posts
Bob Kotick is more likely to say somehting like this, but not Mike, not him. The article sounds like a boring uninteresting conversation turned into something more exciting to read. Second, unless the minister is completely incompotent, even if Mike Morhaime acted like that (good lord, Mike must have the worst day of his life, fallen out of bed, realized his toothpaste is empty, the breakfast made him throw up, got a call of a friend beaten down and ended up in a hospital, lost his wallet, got kicked in the nuts by a Korean gangster and tripped over his shoelaces in front of the goverment building) the minister would never react is such a way, a politician is usually alot more subtle. | ||
ArvickHero
10387 Posts
On October 09 2010 03:01 Seiniyta wrote: To be honest, the article is just so hilariously obviously untrue it's not even funny. The OP not to blame of course, he just posted it, but anyone who ever met Mike Morhaime, and knows them longer then just a talk know that's not a screamy kind of person at all. That he's calm and subtle. Bob Kotick is more likely to say somehting like this, but not Mike, not him. The article sounds like a boring uninteresting conversation turned into something more exciting to read. Second, unless the minister is completely incompotent, even if Mike Morhaime acted like that (good lord, Mike must have the worst day of his life, fallen out of bed, realized his toothpaste is empty, the breakfast made him throw up, got a call of a friend beaten down and ended up in a hospital, lost his wallet, got kicked in the nuts by a Korean gangster and tripped over his shoelaces in front of the goverment building) the minister would never react is such a way, a politician is usually alot more subtle. To be honest, you have no idea what you are talking about. | ||
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Oozo
Finland432 Posts
Sadly mostly everyone thinks that sc:bw fans want sc2 to fail miserably, even if I would be classified as one, I don't give crap about sc2, just let BW stay alive and don't interfere things you have not made. If you watch what Blizzard has achieved in few years, its simple. Micropayments on games, monthly fees for everything, also they have made new standards on rights agreements. Setting standards for additional content is also something they basicly are amazing at. Blizzard is not evil company at all, even biggest companys can make wrong or bad decisions. | ||
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bRuTaL!!
Finland588 Posts
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maybenexttime
Poland5623 Posts
On October 09 2010 03:22 bRuTaL!! wrote: Yeah, Blizzard didnt do anything to make BW an esports. But they also never went for their IP rights even when they saw how huge it had become until it was harming their business directly. Harming? It made SC2 an instant best seller even though its quality is at best questionable... | ||
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hitthat
Poland2267 Posts
On October 09 2010 02:55 bRuTaL!! wrote: And I dont think GSL will be going anywhere. Its a HUGE success. 6000-10 000 ($120 000- 200 000 total) westerners paying $20 bucks for a season as well as sponsors like Intel and TG Sambo for a first season and now everything is probably going to more than double for the next season. 2500 players of which 250 foreigners, signed up for the prelims. for how long? 2 or 3 years and than be foragone like that of WC3 and stuff? Did you even watch the "golden age" of e-sport in europe few years ago? When the games were directly sponsored by some companies untill get to old and than be left? Without true proscene even your beloved SC2 will be forgotten as quick as it get older. | ||
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bRuTaL!!
Finland588 Posts
On October 09 2010 03:24 maybenexttime wrote: Harming? It made SC2 an instant best seller even though its quality is at best questionable... BW had little to do with the succes of SC2, if you dont count the concept. Id say 95% of people that bought Sc2 never played broodwar (at least outside of Korea)... On October 09 2010 03:30 hitthat wrote: for how long? 2 or 3 years and than be foragone like that of WC3 and stuff? Did you even watch the "golden age" of e-sport in europe few years ago? When the games were directly sponsored by some companies untill get to old and than be left? Without true proscene even your beloved SC2 will be forgotten as quick as it get older. Counter-Strike is still doing pretty well and yes, I did watch. Have you seen ESL events? IEM World Championship photo IEM World Championship photo 2 Doing pretty damn well Id say. 1,200,000 active users and a strong footing especially in Germany. Not quite at the Korean level yet thought. How long will SC2 last? Who knows, I bet BW players in early 2000 didnt think it would still be played 2010. | ||
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ffreakk
Singapore2155 Posts
On October 09 2010 03:50 bRuTaL!! wrote: BW had very little to do witht the succes of SC2, if you dont count the concept. Id say 95% of people that bought Sc2 never played broodwar... 95%? Source or im forced to believe that you just pulled the number out of ur ass to make it sound factual. 1/ If 10 years worth of hours/day advertisement on primetime slot on multiple TV channel (not to mention internet fan + hype) matters so little.. Why are companies paying so much for mere minutes of ads? 2/ If Brood War's fanbase is so insignificant, why is Blizz trying so hard to make sure that they dont have to compete with Brood War during their airtime? Since the amount of people that favors BW over their beloved SC2 would be insignificant anw? 3/ Last but not least all of those casuals buyers will be the first ones to ditch your beloved SC2 when the next shiny thing come out. Generally, please note that through WC3: Reign of Chaos, WC3: The Frozen Throne and WoW.. Blizz have shown us time and again that the perfect balance that they created in Brood War was an obvious fluke (bugs that contributed to gameplay, making it balance).. And until another game has proven itself fully, i see no reason to believe that a miracle can happen again. "Give it 10 years and it will prove to be better" just isnt good enough.. Age of Empire wasnt, Warcraft 3 wasnt, Red Alert wasnt, Pokemon wasnt ( :p ).. Why would SC2 be any different? | ||
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DyEnasTy
United States3714 Posts
On October 08 2010 20:16 illumination wrote: Blizzard like most western companies think their rights extend past all overs. You can tell by their terms of service that say that the replays you have are theirs and the custom maps are theirs. Eastern philosophy is different (which is why they have a different ToS) so its partly resulting in this clash. I personally think this "intellectual property" is retarded. If you were to extend that reasoning than every program would have to pay the creators of the language who would have to pay previous creators of which it is based on and so on and so forth. KeSPA put a lot of work in and its not fair to have Blizzard be in command of everything they do. If i build a house should it belong to company who made the hammer i used? But you could argue the same point about Kespa. They are insanely exclusive of their players, and not wanting foreign players in. Look at how hard the progamers are treated with work schedules, living arrangements, ect. Isnt that kind of attitude the same blizzard is presenting? ie: monopoly on everything in the competitive scene of SC? And to the poster who told me to take off my KT Rolster badge: I will if it means Flash and other progamers will be out from under kespa, and playing internationally. | ||
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zeppelin
United States565 Posts
On October 08 2010 17:41 Liquid`Jinro wrote: I cant appreciate it given the fact that taekwondo isnt even a 100 years old ;/ that's the joke, shitty TKD dojos exaggerate the hell out of how old it is to make it seem more mystical and appealing for the parents of five year olds | ||
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ffreakk
Singapore2155 Posts
On October 09 2010 04:45 DyEnasTy wrote: But you could argue the same point about Kespa. They are insanely exclusive of their players, and not wanting foreign players in. Look at how hard the progamers are treated with work schedules, living arrangements, ect. Isnt that kind of attitude the same blizzard is presenting? ie: monopoly on everything in the competitive scene of SC? And to the poster who told me to take off my KT Rolster badge: I will if it means Flash and other progamers will be out from under kespa, and playing internationally. I have no idea what you are talking about. I believe the only thing thats keeping foreigner from entering the proscene in Korea is that their skill just isnt enough. And must teams allowed low-skilled players into their team just because they are foreigners? Now you are claiming that their work schedules and their living arrangement is terrible? How so? Training 8-10 hours a day is considered optimal, any additional training is done under a player's own volition if they want to improve their skill. And maybe you can further elaborate on how their living condition is bad? And before you start on bunk bed and sharing a room with another person, no thats not terrible, that is just fine for people our age.. Half the people in my university live the same way (school hostel or renting places outside n sharing with friends). | ||
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bRuTaL!!
Finland588 Posts
On October 09 2010 04:21 ffreakk wrote: 95%? Source or im forced to believe that you just pulled the number out of ur ass to make it sound factual. 1/ If 10 years worth of hours/day advertisement on primetime slot on multiple TV channel (not to mention internet fan + hype) matters so little.. Why are companies paying so much for mere minutes of ads? 2/ If Brood War's fanbase is so insignificant, why is Blizz trying so hard to make sure that they dont have to compete with Brood War during their airtime? Since the amount of people that favors BW over their beloved SC2 would be insignificant anw? 3/ Last but not least all of those casuals buyers will be the first ones to ditch your beloved SC2 when the next shiny thing come out. Generally, please note that through WC3: Reign of Chaos, WC3: The Frozen Throne and WoW.. Blizz have shown us time and again that the perfect balance that they created in Brood War was an obvious fluke (bugs that contributed to gameplay, making it balance).. And until another game has proven itself fully, i see no reason to believe that a miracle can happen again. "Give it 10 years and it will prove to be better" just isnt good enough.. Age of Empire wasnt, Warcraft 3 wasnt, Red Alert wasnt, Pokemon wasnt ( :p ).. Why would SC2 be any different? I pulled that number out of my ass. I dont know what the specific percent is but it pretty darn high. And I bet that a large amount of those that has played BW didnt decide to buy SC2 on BWs merits. About 1. and 2., really Korea specific, I dont dispute those points within Koreas market. Doesnt apply to rest of the world. 3. true but you also need those casuals and the only way to get a lot of hardcore and loyal fans is to get a lot of casuals first. | ||
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Cyber_Cheese
Australia3615 Posts
On October 09 2010 05:39 bRuTaL!! wrote: I pulled that number out of my ass. I dont know what the specific percent is but it pretty darn high. And I bet that a large amount of those that has played BW didnt decide to buy SC2 on BWs merits. About 1. and 2., really Korea specific, I dont dispute those points within Koreas market. Doesnt apply to rest of the world. 3. true but you also need those casuals and the only way to get a lot of hardcore and loyal fans is to get a lot of casuals first. of the people i know that play sc2, maybe half at most never played sc bw, and i know quite a few who havent got sc2 theres alot of new players but its not overwhelming, most people played bw at some point over 12 years | ||
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sCCrooked
Korea (South)1306 Posts
On October 09 2010 05:39 bRuTaL!! wrote: I pulled that number out of my ass. I dont know what the specific percent is but it pretty darn high. And I bet that a large amount of those that has played BW didnt decide to buy SC2 on BWs merits. About 1. and 2., really Korea specific, I dont dispute those points within Koreas market. Doesnt apply to rest of the world. 3. true but you also need those casuals and the only way to get a lot of hardcore and loyal fans is to get a lot of casuals first. If you heard of "Starcraft", you probably had your interest piqued when "Starcraft 2" was mentioned. Go figure. Sorry but I flat-out disagree based on the fact that with even the slightest bit of knowledge on how humans function, that doesn't make sense to have Starcraft 2 players completely never to have heard of Starcraft. | ||
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zenMaster
Canada761 Posts
On October 09 2010 05:39 bRuTaL!! wrote: I pulled that number out of my ass. I dont know what the specific percent is but it pretty darn high. And I bet that a large amount of those that has played BW didnt decide to buy SC2 on BWs merits. About 1. and 2., really Korea specific, I dont dispute those points within Koreas market. Doesnt apply to rest of the world. 3. true but you also need those casuals and the only way to get a lot of hardcore and loyal fans is to get a lot of casuals first. Seriously, you don't care about E-Sports(The real one that Kespa created) so I don't know what you're trying to accomplish in here. Either put up real statistics with reliable sources or stop trying to make us support your beloved angel Blizzard with nonsense pulled out of your ass. | ||
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palexhur
Colombia730 Posts
On October 09 2010 03:50 bRuTaL!! wrote: BW had little to do with the succes of SC2, if you dont count the concept. Id say 95% of people that bought Sc2 never played broodwar (at least outside of Korea)... Counter-Strike is still doing pretty well and yes, I did watch. Have you seen ESL events? IEM World Championship photo IEM World Championship photo 2 Doing pretty damn well Id say. 1,200,000 active users and a strong footing especially in Germany. Not quite at the Korean level yet thought. How long will SC2 last? Who knows, I bet BW players in early 2000 didnt think it would still be played 2010. lol oh guy you are showing us that your pseudo intellectual posts are just things that you pull out of your ass, you assume everything about everything, seriously do you really think that SC2 selling is not about SC being the only RTS so succesful that has a pro scene, if is that then you know nothing about marketing (and for your posts about other things too). User was temp banned for this post. | ||
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