Shim Hyun plays with us again, giving us "Progamer A,B,C" this time.
Progamer A - Wanted to participate for this season of GSL, but was not able to due to his contract with his team. He is looking to participate in the preliminaries of the second season of GSL this upcoming October. He is still practicing hard, and said that if he participated in the preliminaries, he would have been able to make it to the main stages. He updated us on his situation by saying that next season, he is preparing hard so that he could make it the semi finals.
Pretty much confirmed to be July.
Progamer B - Has already left the team and is living by himself. He announced to hsi team that he is not going to have another contract, and preparing for the switch to SC2. There is a very high chance that he will join the SC2 game team that Progamer A is a part of. Has enjoyed playing since the beta test, and is preparing to participate in the preliminaries.
Rumors have it that this is NaDa.
Progamer C - Also did not recontract, and is known to be transitioning to SC2. His contract ended at the end of June. After that, he extended his contract a bit due to suggestion of the team and the people around him, but recently he gave up on getting another contract and has decided to move onto SC2.
Wait, if C is boxer, then that means that he ALREADY did not "recontract" with skt? wouldn't we know about that?
That would be soooo cool though, sc2 is just ripe for boxer to be the king... just like he was in scbw.... CRAZY to think about re-living that generation again hahah
Nothing really lost to Brood War, I love July but these players can't compete anymore. While they may not be able to practice enough to keep up with Brood War, they are each a genius capable of advancing SC2, where inspiration will matter more than preparation.
I know July is doing really well as zerg, any word if Nada and Boxer will be switching races?
think about it: BW has so many super heroes(sort to speak) atm, with Flash Jaedong Bisu Effort blablabla, and those 3 mention players had their prime in BW, so moving to SC2 would be perfect
that way we can see the old legends play again(and good chance of raping faces) while still enjoying the new generation dominating the BW scene
I would rather watch them play then sit on the bench, though Nada did get to play often for We Made Fox. Looking forward to GSL Season 2!
This is the tip of the iceberg I feel. More and more will make the switch(Not many current starters who are almost in every match), a lot of the B teamers though.
hmm, wouldn't we have heard if NaDa and Boxer hadn't resigned with their teams by now? Or has this already been posted elsewhere and I just haven't seen it?
No brainer about July. Hasn't seen any time for STX since midlast season. I have mixed feelings about Boxer and Nada. Ace still has old gamers ish. And Yellow and Reach will probably get some time for KT.
Neat. I am thinking it's pretty much a good idea for them. Anything to see these titans of awesome get back in a tourney. As much as I love both it's alil sad to see them rarely if ever used in the bw scene so seeing them moving on to actually playing again works great for me and hopefully for them. Now excuse me as I let my fanboyism take over.
As sad as I am to see a legendary trio of players move to SC2... TBH they never stood a chance in BW with the new incredible skill level headed by JD/Flash.
At least, this way, we can see the (Flying) Tushin, the Genius/Tornado Terran, and the Emperor back winning starleagues on TV!!!
On September 09 2010 03:32 Deletrious wrote: Nothing really lost to Brood War, I love July but these players can't compete anymore. While they may not be able to practice enough to keep up with Brood War, they are each a genius capable of advancing SC2, where inspiration will matter more than preparation.
I know July is doing really well as zerg, any word if Nada and Boxer will be switching races?
on the other hand what you say is quite true...
Boxer being dominant again? Would be awesome...
And then we have Boxer vs TLO GSL finals and our pants explode.
Hurry Foreigners! Win the First GSL before it's too late!!!!! LOL. You will have no chance next time when you meet July in the ro64, nada in the ro32, and boxer in the ro16!!!
Nada/July is not surprising considering they've been playing it quite a bit
Why is anyone sad though? These players can't compete with the extremely high skill of top BW progamers these days, and haven't played in official matches for ages. It makes sense for them to give SC2 a try, and I wouldn't be surprised if more of the older pros did that.
When many younger players switch, or like any single of the current A-team members, then we can start actually worrying about BW progaming (well it's already worrying, but for different reasons).
On September 09 2010 03:53 PoP wrote: Nada/July is not surprising considering they've been playing it quite a bit
Why is anyone sad though? These players can't compete with the extremely high skill of top BW progamers these days, and haven't played in official matches for ages. It makes sense for them to give SC2 a try, and I wouldn't be surprised if more of the older pros did that.
When many younger players switch, or like any single of the current A-team members, then we can start actually worrying about BW progaming (well it's already worrying, but for different reasons).
Wise words!
Im excited about this. Hopely these will be 'confirmed' asap.
On September 09 2010 03:53 PoP wrote: Why is anyone sad though? These players can't compete with the extremely high skill of top BW progamers these days, and haven't played in official matches for ages. It makes sense for them to give SC2 a try, and I wouldn't be surprised if more of the older pros did that.
When many younger players switch, or like any single of the current A-team members, then we can start actually worrying about BW progaming (well it's already worrying, but for different reasons).
Yeah, I don't see why people are sad to see this. It's not like they were getting BW playtime anyway... is your blind hatred for SC2 really enough to make you sad to see these legends play again?
Very cool news. July is the player that got me into SC. Cannot wait to see him in the GSL. Not that Boxer and Nada aren't also awesome, but July is more responsible.
this is good news to me we will never see nada or july dominate again like they once did in BW at least! i foresee at least 5 more years of continued relevance (3 more years until legacy of the void + many more years) i think this is a good career move
On September 09 2010 03:53 PoP wrote: Why is anyone sad though? These players can't compete with the extremely high skill of top BW progamers these days, and haven't played in official matches for ages. It makes sense for them to give SC2 a try, and I wouldn't be surprised if more of the older pros did that.
When many younger players switch, or like any single of the current A-team members, then we can start actually worrying about BW progaming (well it's already worrying, but for different reasons).
Yeah, I don't see why people are sad to see this. It's not like they were getting BW playtime anyway... is your blind hatred for SC2 really enough to make you sad to see these legends play again?
you would be suprised how many are like that on TL -,-
I'm so psyched for this! Prime is already proving itself a force to be reckoned with, but I can't imagine how crazy this is gonna get with July on the scene!
7 OSL titles have been won by these players. Wow this would be incredible to see BW legends transition seeing as how they do not get playing time in Proleague.
Boxer would be more suited for SC2 at this point because it looks like he's going to be playing the cheerleader for SKT rather than ever having a chance to start there. Might as well switch. Plus, lower apm demands would help.
Nada potentially going away is pretty disappointing. D: I was hoping to see more of him since he hasn't declined as much as the other old gamers. He can still take off games and be effective.
On September 09 2010 04:13 GhoSt[shield] wrote: 7 OSL titles have been won by these players. Wow this would be incredible to see BW legends transition seeing as how they do not get playing time in Proleague.
Haha. I guess Boxer's bunker rushing of Yellow didn't count.
On September 09 2010 04:13 GhoSt[shield] wrote: 7 OSL titles have been won by these players. Wow this would be incredible to see BW legends transition seeing as how they do not get playing time in Proleague.
Holy check! (Yeah, it's cool to say that now, right?)
Quite amazing news and I have a feeling that this will remove a bit of the tension currently going on the whole kespa gretech blizzard thing... Hopefully.
If boxer picks T I think we're gonna need yet another patch. ^^
wow it'd be really awesome to see these guys compete in sc2. boxer especially might be able to pull some good results while the game's still in its infancy
:| I'd rather see Boxer having kids with her new wife and retiring than seeing him switch to SC2. Hail to the Emperor.
I am not suprised about July. When I went to see the STX masters in Shanghai he was present, and officially an STX players because he was playing in the tournament. But for example, at the finals he was the only one not wearing the STX uniform. He had a black tshirt saying "Everybody is a star" :D
And he was absent from most of the STX holidays pictures that were published on Fomos. I guess he was playing SC2 on his laptop in his hotel room :D
Tbh, if it wasn't for the shit between Kespa and Blizzard, this should have happened from the very beginning of SC2 AND they would have still been contracted to their old teams. Glad to see them playing again actively and hoping they'll be successful in SC2. Hopefully their departures from BW don't negatively influence the negotiations for Proleague/MSL/OSL, but rather smoothen the road.
It is very good for them, a Korean pro just got from 15 to 25 in BW e-sports, 25-27 Army (Ace) and 28-Retire in SC2 tournaments, if they got some money from SC2 scene it wouldnt hurt anyone.
I loved watching all 3 of these players, and I'm sure it'd be great to see them transition into SC2. I dislike the potential death of BW however, wish the games could live side by side for a few years, without the issues between them. Still, thinking about the rebirth of the Tornado Terran and the Emperor, I full out nerdgasm. I love July as well, but as a former T player in BW, I have a closer attachment to the first two.
Sad to see them go, happy at the thought of seeing them roll some nubs in sc2. If BW has to die it should be of "natural" causes like this, players switching over progressively, rather than some Gretech BS.
I'm especially pumped about Nada, as he was still capable of winning games in his last few appearances. And of course July needs to save Zerg.
the field in SC2 is wide open right now. the so-called "best" player in the world is probably Idra or maybe Tester, and with a little practice I'm confident any of these 3 could take those guys with one hand tied behind their back.
this is really exciting. SC2 needs legends, especially if it wants to become popular in Korea, and these guys get another chance to show off their skills and dominate. Its a real win-win.
now we just need a legendary Toss player to make the switch as well...
On September 09 2010 04:13 GhoSt[shield] wrote: 7 OSL titles have been won by these players. Wow this would be incredible to see BW legends transition seeing as how they do not get playing time in Proleague.
i thought boxer won 2, july won 3, and nada won 3? wouldnt that be 8? damn knows how many msls but boxer sounds too good to be true imo
On September 09 2010 04:24 aru wrote: Tbh, if it wasn't for the shit between Kespa and Blizzard, this should have happened from the very beginning of SC2 AND they would have still been contracted to their old teams. Glad to see them playing again actively and hoping they'll be successful in SC2. Hopefully their departures from BW don't negatively influence the negotiations for Proleague/MSL/OSL, but rather smoothen the road.
if fucking blizzard/gretech wasn't trying to destroy SC:BW scene, i'm sure the teams wouldn't mind their over the hill players playing sc2 while on their original contraCT.
unfortunately, blizzard/gretech shortsightedness is going to force these gamers to give up their salary in order to pursue sc2. the korean pro teams have no love of blizzard/gretech, why should they allow their players to help support that league when they are avidly trying to destroy theirs?
out of spite for gretech and blizzard, i don't want boxer to switch to sc2. id rater have him become a coach.
This only confirms what I've been saying from the beginning; there's no reason at all why SC1 and SC2 can't co-exist in Korea, why we (the fans) can't have the best of both worlds.
Let OGN air the GSL, give Gom good timeslots, then let Proleague run on normally. Flash and Jaedong and the other a-teamers can continue tearing it up in BW, while the b-teamers, the old pros, the foreigners, and assorted other newcomers can use SC2 to make a name for themselves. There's plenty of room for both games.
Instead, we're on the verge of a self-destructive war between competing e-sports powers where the fans and the players are the real losers. Depressing, to the extreme.
What we need now are bridges between the two powers, cooperation between the two scenes rather than competition. If anyone can lead the way out of this mess, it's Boxer. Very encouraging...
And, obviously it would be awesome to see Boxer, Nada, and July tearing it up in SC2. Boxer vs TLO FTW!
Boxer switching would be HUGE. It would attract so many fans due to his iconic/pioneer position in the SK BW scene. NaDa and July obviously help bring in more fans as well.
I don't really think this means BW proleague will fall off the face of the earth. Kespa will do their best in court to halt Gretech/Blizz lawsuit. It just means that more fans will gravitate towards SC2. Which, in the long run, is a GOOD thing for E-sports.
Thats nuts if it is those 3....seems sort of a grab bag, generic descriptions could be a ton of players, nada july and boxer are 3 of the top 10 players of all time and this could definitely be a pipedream
Nada boxer and july going over to starcraft 2?!?!?! i'm starting to think savior going to jail really WAS a conspiracy by blizzard, especially since iirc savior was the progamer that said sc2 only required 50 apm and wasn't as good
I can see A beeing July (because it was known by the public that he didnt enter GSL because of his contract) but Nada and Boxer we would have seen something in the news before this I believe. Cant B be someone from Ace that ended contract in june and has now left the team? That would be somewhat "normal" and may have gone under the radar.
Nada and Boxer could infact be those players I just assumed if that happened people would know already.
On September 09 2010 05:29 Siffer wrote: Boxer switching would be HUGE. It would attract so many fans due to his iconic/pioneer position in the SK BW scene. NaDa and July obviously help bring in more fans as well.
I don't really think this means BW proleague will fall off the face of the earth. Kespa will do their best in court to halt Gretech/Blizz lawsuit. It just means that more fans will gravitate towards SC2. Which, in the long run, is a GOOD thing for E-sports.
Um... What is Boxer gonna do in SC2, invent cute builds that will become obsolete after time?
July and especially NaDa will improve SC2 far better in theory. They will bring more into the table by displaying better standard play through macro, game economics, and unit control past the early stages of the game.
Possibly seeing Lee Yoon Yeol and Lim Yo Hwang sitting in their respective booths playing again gives me geek-chills. I swear to God, this might just be the best SC2 related news in a loooong while.
I don't think it's a bad development, players like Boxer and NaDa would really turn the Korean attention to Starcraft 2. Since the APM requirements are relatively low these players could show some great strategic play and possibly compete with the best again.
It isn't great news for BW, but as with all other games it has an expiration date. I really think SC2 can be a replacement for BW if people are open to it instead of being hardcore against anything new.
As for Boxer playing SC2, in his Artosis interview he already mentioned he was playing beta a bit and that he wanted to be competitive as progamer in any game possible. Him transitioning to SC2 isn't really that farfetched. Lots of fans see him as BW symbol, but as a progamer he probably isn't content to sit by the sidelines of a dying game.
As for NaDa, it's probably true as he's already done the showatches with TLO.and has stated he likes the game. July was already confirmed ofc.
i'm starting to think savior going to jail really WAS a conspiracy by blizzard, especially since iirc savior was the progamer that said sc2 only required 50 apm and wasn't as good
Yeah Blizzard totally mindcontrolled Savior into being a cheating, match-fixing fucker. Yep.
Christ. I know Blizzard isn't popular around these parts, but that doesn't mean they have black magic powers.
On September 09 2010 05:41 godzillathrilla wrote: milkis, I know you love posting BW news, but wrong section? this would get a lot more attention elsewhere
if i post it in bw, less sc 2 people will read it. if i post it in sc2, less bw people will read it.
i thought it was more important to bring the news to bw since it's more relevant to bw (ie, korean proscene), than sc2.
On September 09 2010 05:29 Siffer wrote: Boxer switching would be HUGE. It would attract so many fans due to his iconic/pioneer position in the SK BW scene. NaDa and July obviously help bring in more fans as well.
I don't really think this means BW proleague will fall off the face of the earth. Kespa will do their best in court to halt Gretech/Blizz lawsuit. It just means that more fans will gravitate towards SC2. Which, in the long run, is a GOOD thing for E-sports.
Um... What is Boxer gonna do in SC2, invent cute builds that will become obsolete after time?
July and especially NaDa will improve SC2 far better in theory. They will bring more into the table by displaying better standard play through macro, game economics, and unit control past the early stages of the game.
I never said his skill will draw fans. In fact it has absolutely nothing to do with skill. Boxer is the biggest name in BW. His name *still* draws enormous attention. Him moving to SC2 would generate a huge buzz for SC2 in Korea. Even if he ends up having a 20% win record, SC2 will embrace a lot more fans.
On September 09 2010 05:51 Saechiis wrote: I don't think it's a bad development, players like Boxer and NaDa would really turn the Korean attention to Starcraft 2. Since the APM requirements are relatively low these players could show some great strategic play and possibly compete with the best again.
It isn't great news for BW, but as with all other games it has an expiration date. I really think SC2 can be a replacement for BW if people are open to it instead of being hardcore against anything new.
There is no reason a legendary game such as BW, as a successful e-sport, should have an "expiration date". No more than any actual sport, at least.
Should BW die, it definitely won't be because a few ex-players, no matter how renowned they are, switch to SC2, but because either 1) the fans stop showing up for actual matches or 2) BW is forcefully pushed out of the way by Gretech or whatever.
On September 09 2010 05:29 Siffer wrote: Boxer switching would be HUGE. It would attract so many fans due to his iconic/pioneer position in the SK BW scene. NaDa and July obviously help bring in more fans as well.
I don't really think this means BW proleague will fall off the face of the earth. Kespa will do their best in court to halt Gretech/Blizz lawsuit. It just means that more fans will gravitate towards SC2. Which, in the long run, is a GOOD thing for E-sports.
Um... What is Boxer gonna do in SC2, invent cute builds that will become obsolete after time?
He'd bring a legion of fans that have followed The Emperor through for years and years.
This would be huge for SC2 and a blow for BW however without harmony between the two I can't see either flourishing so one may aswell succeed off the others failure.
don't see why everyone thinks this is the 'death of bw confirmed', all three of these players never play proleague anymore and it was the best decision for them to all move on (to sc2).
On September 09 2010 06:08 GTR wrote: don't see why everyone thinks this is the 'death of bw confirmed', all three of these players never play proleague anymore and it was the best decision for them to all move on (to sc2).
On September 09 2010 03:25 HaruHaru wrote: This is sad. The real death of BW
They don't even play BW matches anymore, so hardly.
It's the lack of their star power that could hurt BW, not their actual play time. I do understand their decision -- hell, it's more admirable of them to give it another go than to live off of their past accomplishments for the rest of their BW careers. And the perks won't hurt: they're guaranteed red carpet treatment the instant they officially switch over.
Sauron Zerg and Tornado Terran on Prime i'm guessing? That is OP. These two guys might be able to accelerate the mechanics of SC2 exponentially. They are still both pretty damn fast. Remember when they clicked on the APM tab in the Nada-TLO showmatch and Nada's was at like 300+ (which is pushing 400 real APM if I'm not mistaken)?
Hey Jinro, start recruiting Boxxah to TLAF-Liquid now!
It will be interesting to see boxer play in a game where you don't need as much mechanical skill to macro effectively and a strategical environment that's less figured out and more like BW was when he was on top.
Oh my God.....July and Nada I can believe, and that'd be frigging amazing.
But Boxer? Holy shit, I can't imagine what an impact it'll have if Boxer himself shows up next GSL. Just thinking about it blows my mind fuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuu
On September 09 2010 05:41 godzillathrilla wrote: milkis, I know you love posting BW news, but wrong section? this would get a lot more attention elsewhere
if i post it in bw, less sc 2 people will read it. if i post it in sc2, less bw people will read it.
i thought it was more important to bring the news to bw since it's more relevant to bw (ie, korean proscene), than sc2.
Half the people in SC2 won't even know who these people are ~_~
hmmm. I don't think that Boxer will last long in the SC2 scene if he does move on, because he's kind of old and won't be as fast as some of the younger players. I mean chances are he will come up with a lot of new builds and strats for people to toy around with, but he's just not at the level where he can adapt with the game.
Besides, if Boxer moves to SC2, who will help fantasy alogn with oov to come up with new and entertainign strategies? TT
While it certainly is a punch to the gut to have it confirmed that we are likely never to see these 3 play BW again, it sort of feels better when you realize we probably wouldn't anyway outside of the occasional promotional match or two.
Im looking forward to this. With the way Medivacs are now, and the increased viability of "cute" units like the Raven and Ghost Boxer could do terrible terrible things to his opponents in SC2. I can imagine a guy like Nada watching the level of play in the first round of the GSL and salivating at the thought of all that prize money. I liken it to when all of us D+/C- players found out that level of skill was enough to get us into Diamond divisions.
but honestly having these genius innovators in the SC2 scene will be really cool. As much as I love seeing these guys play BW, they don't really bring anything to the scene anymore.
On September 09 2010 06:40 matjlav wrote: My gut reaction is "dammit noooooooooo"
but honestly having these genius innovators in the SC2 scene will be really cool. As much as I love seeing these guys play BW, they don't really bring anything to the scene anymore.
but noooooooooo T_T
Yea. i feel the same way. i cant say im sad because it would be sorta cool to have legends of BW in SC2
On September 09 2010 06:35 pronesc wrote: Nice. Can't wait to see Boxer using some of his neat micro tricks again. Many more possibilities in SCII than in Broodwar.
Huh... don't think so.
But anyway, let's wait until it's confirmed. I'm still quite a bit skeptical about the Boxer part (as opposed to the other two). Also, silhouette pic doesn't exactly match.
For those who don't understand why some might feel sad and think it's just "sc2 hatred" : July might as well try it,cause yeah, he hasn't play decent for ages. Might be because I don't like him that much. Nada was on a three game winning streak in PL. I'm sure he could have played some games, and even might have qualified for a league. And when him and Boxer play (for Boxer maybe only in showmatch) you can only be entertained. And this won't be the case in SC2 I feel, for many reasons, not only because the game is inferior, but also because they had a characteristic playstyle that won't transfer, and because the cheering is always huge for them (will that transfer in sc2 ? I'm not sure). It just won't feel the same. Thre won't be the same nostalgia. And I'm really not sure they'll do that well, and they are giving up good jobs (with salaries) for something a bit more uncertain. True, if Gretech win, they might be right anyway Well, as long as YellOw stays in bw, I don't really care that much.
This is BW. Edit : and yeah, I'm not really sure about Boxer.
On September 09 2010 05:51 Saechiis wrote: I don't think it's a bad development, players like Boxer and NaDa would really turn the Korean attention to Starcraft 2. Since the APM requirements are relatively low these players could show some great strategic play and possibly compete with the best again.
It isn't great news for BW, but as with all other games it has an expiration date. I really think SC2 can be a replacement for BW if people are open to it instead of being hardcore against anything new.
There is no reason a legendary game such as BW, as a successful e-sport, should have an "expiration date". No more than any actual sport, at least.
Should BW die, it definitely won't be because a few ex-players, no matter how renowned they are, switch to SC2, but because either 1) the fans stop showing up for actual matches or 2) BW is forcefully pushed out of the way by Gretech or whatever.
Here's to hoping it will be the former.
Not saying it should, it just happens. Problem with games is that they totally hinge on advancing technology, which means there will always be new, superior games, in terms of graphics and gameplay. The BW scene existing till this day is as big of an hommage there is in the gaming business.
Physical sports like tennis and football will always stay the same since the control you have is already optimal ^^
Not sure what to think. I want sc2 to succeed, but havent been too impressed with it so far. Not to mention the Blizzard/bnet 2.0/gretech stuff. That said, I want to see what's best for these legends, and the growth of a worthy eSport game, from that sense I support this. I cant shake the uneasy feeling that it might be more from the pressure/politics of kespa/gretech squeezing people out of bw than the lure of a great new rts pulling them in...
ps: Expected July, bit surprised by Nada and very surprised by boxer. the boxer silhouette doesnt match too well if that even means anything hehe.
SC2 could really use someone like Boxer to make it a good spectator sport - as it is now it's too bland and no real fun tactics involved. It's also much more suitable for old players due to less APM constraints, so I wouldn't be surprised if a large amount of players switched or just gave up on progaming. Reach, Anytime and Yellow could be potential candidates to switch since they most likely will get no playtime in their old teams, and probably poor contracts based on name-value alone.
Sad but in a good way, epic BW legends that will never see playtime again (except maybe nada) would do well to play sc2 and make the game more popular at the very least
im just glad to see these legends playing, even if it is sc2 and not BW.
idk why everyone is qq'ing over this.. they havent been prominent in bw for some time.. for me boxer was the reason i started playing sc so to see him play again at top levels is a dream come true
Why are people sad about this? These 3 have literally nothing left to do in BW, why not go to a new game and try to see if they can be able to conquer it too? I think this is great news, as their fanbases move with them, eventually in a year SC2 will hopefully have the excitment and drama similar to BW.
The only reason I feel some sadness for these three going to SC2 is to what might happen to SKT. One of SKT's top terran coaches is Boxer himself, he is one of the reasons that fantasy is as baller as he is, its a shame that he might no longer receive Boxer's guidance.
Best of luck to all three of them, if they are the three people going to SC2.
On September 09 2010 03:32 Deletrious wrote: Nothing really lost to Brood War, I love July but these players can't compete anymore. While they may not be able to practice enough to keep up with Brood War, they are each a genius capable of advancing SC2, where inspiration will matter more than preparation.
I know July is doing really well as zerg, any word if Nada and Boxer will be switching races?
on the other hand what you say is quite true...
Boxer being dominant again? Would be awesome...
And then we have Boxer vs TLO GSL finals and our pants explode.
With Jaedong/Flash not letting anyone else get to the finals, it wont be surprising if a bunch of progamers check out the GSL. It would be awkward if there is a time when most pro-gamers switch over and you get Jaedong vs Flash every season because their chances are that much higher once everyone is gone. If only you can participate in sc2 leagues and sc1 leagues, then one wouldn't have to necessarily die out... skills for sc1/sc2 are similar imo.
I just wanna know what will happen... all this drama means a lot of popcorn-munching for me...
On September 09 2010 03:32 Deletrious wrote: Nothing really lost to Brood War, I love July but these players can't compete anymore. While they may not be able to practice enough to keep up with Brood War, they are each a genius capable of advancing SC2, where inspiration will matter more than preparation.
I know July is doing really well as zerg, any word if Nada and Boxer will be switching races?
on the other hand what you say is quite true...
Boxer being dominant again? Would be awesome...
And then we have Boxer vs TLO GSL finals and our pants explode.
TLO? Not possible to reach the final.
That is a pretty bold statement. I'm sure it is possible. But he'll probably meet up with IdrA on the way.
TLO is a great player and if you have been watching the GSL, IdrA is the only player we have seen play top notch games so far. Every other play has let their macro slip considerably and consistently.
Boxer in SC2!!!! That would be so awesome, he was so creative.
wasnt boxer even the guy who came up with using a wall-in in bw? Even though that might not sound as much, since everyone uses builds to wall off andm ake chokes now.
On September 09 2010 04:24 aru wrote: Tbh, if it wasn't for the shit between Kespa and Blizzard, this should have happened from the very beginning of SC2 AND they would have still been contracted to their old teams. Glad to see them playing again actively and hoping they'll be successful in SC2. Hopefully their departures from BW don't negatively influence the negotiations for Proleague/MSL/OSL, but rather smoothen the road.
Wow, I'm doing the same dream like yours. That would be perfect!!
On September 09 2010 05:51 Saechiis wrote: I don't think it's a bad development, players like Boxer and NaDa would really turn the Korean attention to Starcraft 2. Since the APM requirements are relatively low these players could show some great strategic play and possibly compete with the best again.
It isn't great news for BW, but as with all other games it has an expiration date. I really think SC2 can be a replacement for BW if people are open to it instead of being hardcore against anything new.
There is no reason a legendary game such as BW, as a successful e-sport, should have an "expiration date". No more than any actual sport, at least.
Should BW die, it definitely won't be because a few ex-players, no matter how renowned they are, switch to SC2, but because either 1) the fans stop showing up for actual matches or 2) BW is forcefully pushed out of the way by Gretech or whatever.
Here's to hoping it will be the former.
Not saying it should, it just happens. Problem with games is that they totally hinge on advancing technology, which means there will always be new, superior games, in terms of graphics and gameplay. The BW scene existing till this day is as big of an hommage there is in the gaming business.
Physical sports like tennis and football will always stay the same since the control you have is already optimal ^^
You are right in one thing, BW should died some day because is a video game (I dont see anyone playing it in 50 years), but you are completely wrong about one statement, you infer that will be always new and superior games in graphics and gameplay, please tell me one RTS that is superior in gameplay compared to the classics like BW.
On September 09 2010 07:16 smekz wrote: another nail in bw coffin? :\
Eh. The coffin is only even there because Blizzard/GomTV and Kespa can't bury the hatchet. It'd only be a nail if a current A-rank or S-rank made the switch, until then I see no reason (barring the legal battle) that BW isn't going to keep chugging for at least another 2 years.
On September 09 2010 08:32 NeCroPoTeNce wrote: Oh god if Boxer switches to SC2, I will switch to whatever race he plays. (although maybe not if it's Terran)
I would understand Nada and July, they get no play time now and moving on seems to be good for them...but Boxer? he has such a big say in BW, and people would listen to him without hesitation, why would he move on? SKT would do basically anything to keep him around and make him happy, him moving on would make no sense to me.
Until it is confirmed to be BoxeR, I won't believe it one bit.
Oh my god... Two of my favourite progamers Nada and Boxer going to SC2 would be so fucking epic. I can't wait to see Boxer use his signature creativity and explosive micro to dominate the scene :D
BOXERRRRRRR!!!! FANGASM!!! BOXERRRRR !!!! MORE FANGASM...BOXER!!!!!!!!!!!! I'm just really excited, sorry for the lame post...BOXER!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! AHHHHHHHHH!!!!!
Plus what Proxi said:
On September 09 2010 08:48 prOxi.swAMi wrote: Oh my god... Two of my favourite progamers Nada and Boxer going to SC2 would be so fucking epic. I can't wait to see Boxer use his signature creativity and explosive micro to dominate the scene :D
....BOXERRR!!! AHHHHH!!!!!! Any1 has fangasm like me?
July starts playing SC2 and ZvT gets balanced but now with Boxer and Nada? Terran will be so OP! Assuming they play Terran.. I'm really looking forward to what interesting new strategies/tactics Boxer will employ
On September 09 2010 07:16 smekz wrote: another nail in bw coffin? :\
Eh. The coffin is only even there because Blizzard/GomTV and Kespa can't bury the hatchet. It'd only be a nail if a current A-rank or S-rank made the switch, until then I see no reason (barring the legal battle) that BW isn't going to keep chugging for at least another 2 years.
I believe a switch of a current S-class player would be the the final nail in the coffin, or one of the last ones. This is just 'A' nail in the coffin.
On September 09 2010 05:51 Saechiis wrote: I don't think it's a bad development, players like Boxer and NaDa would really turn the Korean attention to Starcraft 2. Since the APM requirements are relatively low these players could show some great strategic play and possibly compete with the best again.
It isn't great news for BW, but as with all other games it has an expiration date. I really think SC2 can be a replacement for BW if people are open to it instead of being hardcore against anything new.
There is no reason a legendary game such as BW, as a successful e-sport, should have an "expiration date". No more than any actual sport, at least.
Should BW die, it definitely won't be because a few ex-players, no matter how renowned they are, switch to SC2, but because either 1) the fans stop showing up for actual matches or 2) BW is forcefully pushed out of the way by Gretech or whatever.
Here's to hoping it will be the former.
Not saying it should, it just happens. Problem with games is that they totally hinge on advancing technology, which means there will always be new, superior games, in terms of graphics and gameplay. The BW scene existing till this day is as big of an hommage there is in the gaming business.
Physical sports like tennis and football will always stay the same since the control you have is already optimal ^^
You are right in one thing, BW should died some day because is a video game (I dont see anyone playing it in 50 years), but you are completely wrong about one statement, you infer that will be always new and superior games in graphics and gameplay, please tell me one RTS that is superior in gameplay compared to the classics like BW.
BW was a fun and diverse game while remaining well balanced, which made it very popular. Stating that the gameplay is superior to modern RTS games though is embellishment. Pathfinding, AI and ease of doing what you want to do is all better in newer RTS games.
Wait did I read all of those rumours right... oh wait rumours. Still going to believe it; nada's hot body making its way onto the SC2 scene and boxer's too - no comment on july (too hot to talk).
CG Kespa & Progaming teams. Due to your contract restrictions you now have people leaving the SCBW scene completly, instead of them playing SC2 besides being around in SCBW.
oh... who needed boxer anyway... hmm ... wait a second!
On September 09 2010 03:50 0neder wrote: OMG I'm pumped!
Hurry Foreigners! Win the First GSL before it's too late!!!!! LOL. You will have no chance next time when you meet July in the ro64, nada in the ro32, and boxer in the ro16!!!
as sad as I am, I knew was coming, even though Boxer whipping idra to peices of crap would be awesome.
Although I hate sc2, I would find this to be good news if not for the legal woes plaguing BW. They're not good enough to play BW anymore. I hope Flash switches to sc2 to revive BW gameplay and so that the sc2 lovers that hate him can experience my pain.
Wow, what a rumour. I watched NaDa played against TLO in IEM showmatch and was very impressed with what he can do with 10 days practice. He was mischievously smiling too when his attack suceeded. He's so cute ^^.
I've watched July played in SC2 as FantaPrime, and no doubt he is going to be kicking ass in GSL.
I never see BoxeR when he was dominating, I hope I get to see the reason why people love him so much.
I like this. BW players into SC2 to show what's up. Legendary players as well, but also past their prime and not playing much in BW anymore. SC2 gains something, and BW doesn't lose anything (much)
On September 09 2010 09:33 Lightwip wrote: I hope Flash switches to sc2 to revive BW gameplay and so that the sc2 lovers that hate him can experience my pain.
lol
Assuming BW is around for another few years (at least), I want Flash to take another few leagues (5 OSLs for the first platinum mouse, and at least 3 MSLs), and then announce that he is re-signing as protoss (his offrace) for the following year. With his maphack gamesense and control, he could be the savior protoss have been looking for all these years.
Assuming BW is around for another few years (at least), I want Flash to take another few leagues (5 OSLs for the first platinum mouse, and at least 3 MSLs), and then announce that he is re-signing as protoss (his offrace) for the following year. With his maphack gamesense and control, he could be the savior protoss have been looking for all these years.
Tester: Hyung, is Boxer hyung in your friendlist? RainBOw: Yo RainBOw: I'm streaming right now RainBOw: ; Tester: ;; RainBOw: O shit
This pretty much confirms Boxer to SC2? =P
Oh god yes!
Let's face it, Boxer's BW career is dead. He is little more than a coach and a symbol.
But in SCII, he can make some real difference. The E-sport progaming scene sorely lacks someone of Boxer's maturity, intelligence, and charisma. Face it, the current BW pro-scene is the definition of the battle of the nerds, with every year's recruits looking younger and nerdier.
gretech/blizz need to get on this asap. These guys switching over is what is gonna tip the balance of negotiations between the stupid egos/pride/moneywhoring of kespa/gretech/blizz.
Now we'll see just how high the skill ceiling is for SC2 (well, that is, until active A/S class progamers do the switch).
On September 09 2010 09:56 avilo wrote: gretech/blizz need to get on this asap. These guys switching over is what is gonna tip the balance of negotiations between the stupid egos/pride/moneywhoring of kespa/gretech/blizz.
Why is that? Besides Boxer, the other two dont pull that much weight, and thats assuming Boxer's leave would be significant for either of the two parties.
Assuming BW is around for another few years (at least), I want Flash to take another few leagues (5 OSLs for the first platinum mouse, and at least 3 MSLs), and then announce that he is re-signing as protoss (his offrace) for the following year. With his maphack gamesense and control, he could be the savior protoss have been looking for all these years.
haha if this does happen it really would kill BW
I would love seeing Flash revolutionize PvZ/Pvt and having all the tosses follow in his lead. Seeing Zs and Ts unite in their shouts of protoss imba would complete the game
Tester: Hyung, is Boxer hyung in your friendlist? RainBOw: Yo RainBOw: I'm streaming right now RainBOw: ; Tester: ;; RainBOw: O shit
This pretty much confirms Boxer to SC2? =P
Oh god yes!
Let's face it, Boxer's BW career is dead. He is little more than a coach and a symbol.
But in SCII, he can make some real difference. The E-sport progaming scene sorely lacks someone of Boxer's maturity, intelligence, and charisma. Face it, the current BW pro-scene is the definition of the battle of the nerds, with every year's recruits looking younger and nerdier.
little off topic but does anyone have the adress to rainbow's stream?
Is it just me, or does anyone else think it's kind of unlikely that they'll do very much in SC2? I dunno, SC2 is certainly easier but they've all been slumping and aside from NaDa haven't been playing at a very high level of Brood War for a little while.
Who knows, maybe they'll prove me wrong but I kind of want them to fail, I feel like if they succeed then current pro players will start moving to SC2 as well and I'm really not ready for Brood War and especially Proleague to die.
Any of the old pro broodwar players that aren't going to play sc1, should absolutely contribute their talents towards the sc2 community. I think this is fantastic news. I really hope this sort of thing happens to strengthen the professional sc2 scene.
I think this is the right move for them, as other as mentioned, they haven't played a game in forever. They can't really compete anymore on a mechanical level and with SC2's mechanics they will stand a chance. Plus with players such as Nada and Boxer I might actually care about SC2 and I will actually tune in and pay attention rather than doze off.
well, they can't compete competitively in BW anymore anyway so why not switch? i'm pretty sure they can end up being one of the best in SC2 before it gets too figured out.
Considering that mechanics are highly transferrable between Broodwar and Starcraft II, these guys will do great at first, but when Flash and Jaedong switch, they will rule SCII as hard as they rule Broodwar.
All I know is, I hope these people will put all the foreigners back in their place. Oh, you think you can still win without practicing 12 hours a day? Not anymore. You think macro/micro too easy? Not after this game you won't. Oh how I dream.
On September 09 2010 05:36 ArvickHero wrote: I dunno, Boxer was saying that he wanted to play in Proleague this season so I find him moving to SC2 sort of unliekly
On September 09 2010 05:36 ArvickHero wrote: I dunno, Boxer was saying that he wanted to play in Proleague this season so I find him moving to SC2 sort of unliekly
true that.
Wanted to doesn't mean he still feels that's a realistic expectation.
How is this the end of Brood War? o.O Maybe if JD, Flash, Fantasy, or players of their caliber converted I'd be concerned, but there's barely a chance July, Boxer, NaDa, etc could even take a game off of people like that.
Its good to see the old legends move onto the next great rts. They cant compete in bw anymore so its not like we are losing them to sc2. sc2 is just giving these players another chance to be great.
This is a good thing. These three are innovative players whose mechanics aren't on par with the current top players. SC2 is still at a stage where innovation trumps mechanics. Boxer, especially, is a micro-oriented 1-2 base kind of guy, not the 5-6 base macro player that dominates current BW. SC2 as it is played right now is more his forte.
On September 09 2010 11:56 MICHELLE wrote: no boxer in sc2 is going to be sad, this is a bad news
Yea boxer sitting on the bench was much more exciting....
Honestly, you people are ridiculous. If you had it your way, boxer would be bronzed into one of those BW gaming booths for all eternity. Why on earth would you not want to see him play? I'd watch him play anything...
A bit sad for BW, but this shouldn't be too big of a hit, if any at all. If anything, I hope their legends continue onto SC2, and truly make it live up to its predecessor. I know who I'm cheering for in SC2 now :D
On September 09 2010 03:58 Cofo wrote: is your blind hatred for SC2 really enough to make you sad to see these legends play again?
Sadly, I've had to make the same statement towards SC1 "purists". Their distaste for SC2 voids them off all logical and rational thought when any topic related to the game arises.
On September 09 2010 14:57 Barrin wrote: I am sorry that the BW scene is being diminished, but this really excites me as my focus now is SC2.
How is being diminished? Even if the rumors are confirmed, those players are no longer the backbone of starcraft. It will be a good advertisement for SCII but still players like Fantasy/Flash/Jaedong n such will continue playing BW
On September 09 2010 08:58 Saechiis wrote: [BW was a fun and diverse game while remaining well balanced, which made it very popular. Stating that the gameplay is superior to modern RTS games though is embellishment. Pathfinding, AI and ease of doing what you want to do is all better in newer RTS games.
Those are extremely superficial elements when you think about what "gameplay" actually means as a whole.
Newer game usually have smoother gameplay, would be a better way to put it. But that's it.
On September 09 2010 14:57 Barrin wrote: I am sorry that the BW scene is being diminished, but this really excites me as my focus now is SC2.
How is being diminished? Even if the rumors are confirmed, those players are no longer the backbone of starcraft. It will be a good advertisement for SCII but still players like Fantasy/Flash/Jaedong n such will continue playing BW
It is more of the psychological impact. These 3 are legends, and if they switch, it won't look good on BW, no matter their current playing status. They still have clout and name, which is why the teams are still paying them money to sit on bench and be poster boys.
just accidentally read this since I don't read the BW forums... but shouldn't something about this be in the SC2 forums? :D boxer and nada would be freaking amazing.
I saw a FantaPrime (July) VOD 2 days ago. His play and control looked very crisp. Can't wait to see him do some tournaments. He was my first fav pro-player.
With bunkers having salvage, dropships having heal and reapers being awesome, I think Boxer is going to be SICK to play against
This is pretty awesome, also with Boxer/NaDa/July switching over theres a likely chance that many others will follow, even though most of them wont get much screen time in the proleague, they ARE starcraft, they helped make BW what it is today, and them switching will make it much more likely for other known players to consider switching aswell.
so, besides these 3 rumours(okay maybe 2 since JulyZerg is more or less been known to be FantaPrime) who else would you want to move over?
i hope for more of the old guys who aren't dominating and just bench warming, caus i see no reason for the young powerhouses to move atm when they are at their prime
maybe Real Yellow? so he could get a better nickname than "king of silver"
It'll be interesting to see, if for anything, then the effect of these names having on SC2's popularity. As for their personal competitive perspective? They've been losing the edge their experience gave them in BW already, they will be heavily handicapped against them young'uns now with similar starting grounds. Then again, until sc2 gets even remotely as "mapped out" as BW is now, these clearly exceptional minds will be a lot of fun to follow.
I am getting goosebumps thinking of Boxer, Nada and July swtiching over to SC2, total nerdgasm if its true... but seriously though, seeing how committed Boxer is to SKT1, is there really a good chance for him to do the switch?
On September 09 2010 14:57 Barrin wrote: I am sorry that the BW scene is being diminished, but this really excites me as my focus now is SC2.
How is being diminished? Even if the rumors are confirmed, those players are no longer the backbone of starcraft. It will be a good advertisement for SCII but still players like Fantasy/Flash/Jaedong n such will continue playing BW
It is more of the psychological impact. These 3 are legends, and if they switch, it won't look good on BW, no matter their current playing status. They still have clout and name, which is why the teams are still paying them money to sit on bench and be poster boys.
i ono, i see a lot of similarities between this and beckham coming to la, or nba players going to europe. Causes some shockwaves for a bit but doesn't really affect the core audience or players
Boxer leaving BW is breaking my heart. Whos gonna nuke killer now. . . . .
Guess it's only a matter of time before everyone else follows suite. When Jaedong and Flash switch over they'll have to make SC3 to get rid of their dominance ^^
On September 09 2010 17:28 lastreason wrote: all the noncompetitive exbwplayers will try sc2, for the Money offcourse , and for the simple fact they are not capable of playing bw anymore
Calling Nada, July and Boxer "noncompetitive exbwplayers"? These are legends.
He won his last proleague match and had a three game winning streak this summer? He is probably as good in brood war as his motivation, simple as that. When you have won everything, have won more games than anyone else, and the only thing left is a proleague you will never get, motivation is not that easy.
Good luck to anyone standing in the way if Nada practices for GSL like he does when he wants a title. And that includes July and the Emperor (much <3 and please prove me wrong!).
Called it - the SC1 progaming pyramide collapsing from bottom up. Soon there will be no people for the top progamers to practice with.
On September 09 2010 18:41 Scaramanga wrote: I don't see nada or boxer being any better off in the sc2 scene than they are in the bw scene, whats to recommend they'll dominate?
Don't you think they'll be more competitive in the SC2 scene than they are now? If you do, then you'll agree that it's a pretty good reason to switch, assuming their wish is to still live the progamer life.
On September 09 2010 18:58 niteReloaded wrote: Called it - the SC1 progaming pyramide collapsing from bottom up. Soon there will be no people for the top progamers to practice with.
On September 09 2010 18:41 Scaramanga wrote: I don't see nada or boxer being any better off in the sc2 scene than they are in the bw scene, whats to recommend they'll dominate?
Don't you think they'll be more competitive in the SC2 scene than they are now? If you do, then you'll agree that it's a pretty good reason to switch, assuming their wish is to still live the progamer life.
Not really, Nada might be able to make a switch but I don't see either him or Boxer being a top sc2 player. So they are going to forfit their contracts with their teams to join a team where they are going to get a fraction of the wage they are getting at the moment for the chance to win some prize money?
On September 09 2010 18:58 niteReloaded wrote: Called it - the SC1 progaming pyramide collapsing from bottom up. Soon there will be no people for the top progamers to practice with.
On September 09 2010 18:41 Scaramanga wrote: I don't see nada or boxer being any better off in the sc2 scene than they are in the bw scene, whats to recommend they'll dominate?
Don't you think they'll be more competitive in the SC2 scene than they are now? If you do, then you'll agree that it's a pretty good reason to switch, assuming their wish is to still live the progamer life.
Not really, Nada might be able to make a switch but I don't see either him or Boxer being a top sc2 player. So they are going to forfit their contracts with their teams to join a team where they are going to get a fraction of the wage they are getting at the moment for the chance to win some prize money?
You don't think they're at least more skilled/talented/creative than Tester, who has managed to be fairly "dominant" so far? I think they're going to wreck everyone. It's one thing to be skilled - it's another to be not just skilled but also know how to win games and tournaments. Even Madfrog, an old WC3 pro from a loooong time ago (we're talking like 04/05 here) was able to jump back in after not playing for like 5 years (and this is a wc3 player we're talking about though he did play BW back in like 01 I think) and be competitive just off of his raw RTS talent and experience. I think pantheon-level legends like Boxer/Nada/July are like that times a thousand.
Also I really don't think Boxer/Nada/July are getting paid like they used to. I mean, why would they? Fair is fair, even if they're legends there's no way they're still raking in the gigantic salaries they once did. They're probably making good salaries (great salaries if you factor in the part where they barely play) but it's not quite giving up say $200k a year big.
I would imagine Boxer will have more to gain than Nada. Nada has always had an advantage in mechanics, which doesn't transfer over to SC2 very well because his particular skills aren't needed. Boxer on the other hand has always had the ability to show what has not been seen. In a new game where people are still learning? And in a game where you don't need 400 apm like Nada? Boxer is going to make a joke of people.
I can believe it about July. Maybe for Nada, never for Boxer. I don't think he wan't to practice that much anymore. Often in interviews he talks about how hard it is to succeed as a pro. Now when he's got a nice coach job and a wife I don't think he would do it.
On September 09 2010 19:32 Manifesto7 wrote: I would imagine Boxer will have more to gain than Nada. Nada has always had an advantage in mechanics, which doesn't transfer over to SC2 very well because his particular skills aren't needed. Boxer on the other hand has always had the ability to show what has not been seen. In a new game where people are still learning? And in a game where you don't need 400 apm like Nada? Boxer is going to make a joke of people.
On September 09 2010 18:58 niteReloaded wrote: Called it - the SC1 progaming pyramide collapsing from bottom up. Soon there will be no people for the top progamers to practice with.
On September 09 2010 18:41 Scaramanga wrote: I don't see nada or boxer being any better off in the sc2 scene than they are in the bw scene, whats to recommend they'll dominate?
Don't you think they'll be more competitive in the SC2 scene than they are now? If you do, then you'll agree that it's a pretty good reason to switch, assuming their wish is to still live the progamer life.
Not really, Nada might be able to make a switch but I don't see either him or Boxer being a top sc2 player. So they are going to forfit their contracts with their teams to join a team where they are going to get a fraction of the wage they are getting at the moment for the chance to win some prize money?
So they may or may not become the best players on the scene. I don't even think it's about the money for them. Don't you think they're just tired of BW at this point? I'm pretty sure Boxer/NaDa have been burned out for awhile now. Why not forgo some easy money to actually get back to enjoying what you do again?
I think this is great news for SC2. With some of the greatest legends of BW transferring over they're bound to draw their fanclubs into watching the game, which can only be a good thing for SC2. I think this is a great move for them. Not only do they have a chance to recapture their passion for gaming, but they once again have the opportunity to pioneer and become the figure heads of a brand new eSport.
I'm sad that they're joining SC2 in light of Activision Blizzard's attempt to kill off BW, but at least SC2 will get some truly skilled players now, so I guess this is still good news.
On September 09 2010 20:52 Entropic wrote: Omgomgomg NaDa???!@#?! Brb nerdgasming.
I hope Boxer abuses Terran to the max (even moreso than they are being used currently.)
I hope BoxeR won't use Terran. In SC1, he chose the weakest race during his time which is Terran. So that would simply mean that he would most likely pick Zerg and apply his creativity to revolutionize the playstyle!
On September 09 2010 20:52 Entropic wrote: Omgomgomg NaDa???!@#?! Brb nerdgasming.
I hope Boxer abuses Terran to the max (even moreso than they are being used currently.)
I hope BoxeR won't use Terran. In SC1, he chose the weakest race during his time which is Terran. So that would simply mean that he would most likely pick Zerg and apply his creativity to revolutionize the playstyle!
he played protoss but when reavers got nerfed he swtiched to terran, him picking races had nothing to do with how easy they were
On September 09 2010 19:32 Manifesto7 wrote: I would imagine Boxer will have more to gain than Nada. Nada has always had an advantage in mechanics, which doesn't transfer over to SC2 very well because his particular skills aren't needed. Boxer on the other hand has always had the ability to show what has not been seen. In a new game where people are still learning? And in a game where you don't need 400 apm like Nada? Boxer is going to make a joke of people.
Don't forget that he's basically playing a game where someone can sit on one base and is required to make dropships...
On September 09 2010 19:15 Scaramanga wrote: [Not really, Nada might be able to make a switch but I don't see either him or Boxer being a top sc2 player. So they are going to forfit their contracts with their teams to join a team where they are going to get a fraction of the wage they are getting at the moment for the chance to win some prize money?
I would guess both Nada and Boxer have a million $ on the bank already? Don't think their decision is influenced by money.
On September 09 2010 19:32 Manifesto7 wrote: I would imagine Boxer will have more to gain than Nada. Nada has always had an advantage in mechanics, which doesn't transfer over to SC2 very well because his particular skills aren't needed. Boxer on the other hand has always had the ability to show what has not been seen. In a new game where people are still learning? And in a game where you don't need 400 apm like Nada? Boxer is going to make a joke of people.
Don't forget that he's basically playing a game where someone can sit on one base and is required to make dropships...
I know right? Holy shit lol. One base dropships and nukes. Basically gg.
On September 09 2010 19:32 Manifesto7 wrote: I would imagine Boxer will have more to gain than Nada. Nada has always had an advantage in mechanics, which doesn't transfer over to SC2 very well because his particular skills aren't needed. Boxer on the other hand has always had the ability to show what has not been seen. In a new game where people are still learning? And in a game where you don't need 400 apm like Nada? Boxer is going to make a joke of people.
I totally agree.
I mean, who the fuck is tester.. just a random shitty practice partner that made a few TV appearances. I don't think that at any point was Tester better than Boxer even in SC1 where other things aside from talent and creativity mattered. So, if he's the feared one in SC2 now, I don't see how anyone can doubt Boxer will do great. Until the top top progamers switch, but even then, I won't write him off until I see concrete evidence he's not up to par in this game.
On September 09 2010 19:32 Manifesto7 wrote: I would imagine Boxer will have more to gain than Nada. Nada has always had an advantage in mechanics, which doesn't transfer over to SC2 very well because his particular skills aren't needed. Boxer on the other hand has always had the ability to show what has not been seen. In a new game where people are still learning? And in a game where you don't need 400 apm like Nada? Boxer is going to make a joke of people.
Don't forget that he's basically playing a game where someone can sit on one base and is required to make dropships...
I know right? Holy shit lol. One base dropships and nukes. Basically gg.
And you know what's even better? The map pool is filled with tons of ridiculous gimicky maps that will let him get away with it like back in the day lol.
I seriously wonder how long it will take before we have a Lim Yo-Hwan Barracks Float Rush on Twilight Fortress Replay. :DDDD
sc2 allows boxer to be himself without the worry to put scvs to mine and other pain points. Sucks to be Fantasy, lost half of his crazy builds. Fox lost their leader, sums it up.
Yellow wouldn't switch, he is, imo, the best zerg KT has.
Anyone know how many votes boxer/nada had on the last allstar match? This should give a hint on how many bw fans are going to pay attention to sc2 if they switch.
Step 4: Nerdgasm as he destroys opposing armies with burrowed banelings.
Also, in the GSL cast today Tasteless mentioned that he talked to Nal_ra about SC2, and Nal_ra said that he loved the game. If that's true, then there's the legendary Protoss. Of course he recently put effort into getting competitive at BW again (Oldboy) so he may just be enjoying the game as a game. Either way, should be an interesting next few months.
On September 09 2010 22:49 Boblion wrote: I don't think that Boxer has the skill and shape to success. He is too slow and too old even for Sc2.
His all-star game vs Yellow was pathetic. Stomped by hydra-queen ... and he wasn't even trying something unorthodox.
Lol really? I wouldn't say any of that. He is a legend in micro and creative strats. TLO is creative in the foreign community and Boxer was the most creative player and had the best micro strats in the beginning of the game. This is a new game and he will do the same thing. Too slow? He has plenty of speed for sc2, I doubt that he is under 200 apm in BW.
Boxer is gonna have so much fun with Terran in SC2, especially on the current map pool. Reapers and Hellions, salvagable bunkers, ghosts that are 100% viable in competitive matches, Medivacs, Ravens, Banshees...
for an expert in harassing micro and crazy strategies, SC2 Terran is a wet dream. Especially with the current state of the game, where there aren't that many players with stellar mechanics, and the game has barely been explored yet.
I think this could be very, very good for Boxer, and very, very good for SC2, because if there's one guy who can be relied on to come up with new strategies to advance the game, its Boxer.
Nada...well, I think he'll be amazing, but I have a feeling it will be more in terms of just outright dominating other players than it will be in terms of revolutionizing strategy. Nada-level mechanics aren't something that lower level players can just look at and copy. He'll raise the level of play among top pros though, because to keep up other pros will need to improve their own mechanics in turn.
I'm also psyched for July, just to see if he can bring back that old "swarm" feel of BW Zerg.
On September 09 2010 22:42 Vortok wrote: Guide to epic SC2.
Step 1: Have Boxer play SC2.
Step 2: Have him pick Zerg.
Step 3: Inform him that Banelings exist.
Step 4: Nerdgasm as he destroys opposing armies with burrowed banelings.
Also, in the GSL cast today Tasteless mentioned that he talked to Nal_ra about SC2, and Nal_ra said that he loved the game. If that's true, then there's the legendary Protoss. Of course he recently put effort into getting competitive at BW again (Oldboy) so he may just be enjoying the game as a game. Either way, should be an interesting next few months.
too bad it'll be almost 2 years before we can see kang min in any tournaments. then again, at that point both x-pacs should be out so the game will be much further along.
Pretty happy to read this even though I much prefer BW over SC2. However, these guys were no longer able to compete and at least this way I get to see more Boxer/Nada action. And with Boxer you are basically garantueed nukes every game :D
Its nice to see how even in this thread, there are a lot of people saying, "I'm not a fan of SC2, but I like Boxer/Nada/July enough that I'll tune in to watch them play."
Thats exactly the kind of star power SC2 needs to really take off and start converting old diehards. All it takes is a few really exciting, well-played matches for someone to realize that even if SC2 is a *different* game, that doesn't make it a *bad* game.
On September 09 2010 23:48 awesomoecalypse wrote: Its nice to see how even in this thread, there are a lot of people saying, "I'm not a fan of SC2, but I like Boxer/Nada/July enough that I'll tune in to watch them play."
Thats exactly the kind of star power SC2 needs to really take off and start converting old diehards. All it takes is a few really exciting, well-played matches for someone to realize that even if SC2 is a *different* game, that doesn't make it a *bad* game.
I don't think anyone is inferring that SC2 is bad because it's different. More like it's not necessarily better because it's new and has a "2" at the end of its name.
Guys like those 3 can definitely help make SC2 look a lot more exciting than it currently is, but I for one think that won't be nearly enough to match BW's level unless a couple of significant changes are made to the actual game.
Sure just let them start play sc2. It's great i guess. Hopefull too see them play sc2 on stage. But they will always BW legends, nothing can take that away from them.
This are still only rumors , though i would love seeing those 3 playing any RTS game . I don't know about Nada he's still pretty good in BW even as an old gamer . Boxer and July especially after he started practising SC2 are pretty much washed up and it's a pretty good decision if they want to continue their career as gamers even thought i think the SC2 developement is still to small with only GSL as the only real profit . I hope this doesn't end up damaging BW , because it is such a great spectator's e - sport right now compared to SC2 that still has issues . This at least will make following GSL more enjoyable .
For all the people that don't think these three will eventually dominate SC2 if they make the switch, IdrA was a B teamer on CJ and he's currently one of the best SC2 "pros". Same thing applies to Tester, Cool , etc.
For all the people that don't think these three will eventually dominate SC2 if they make the switch, IdrA was a B teamer on CJ and he's currently one of the best SC2 "pros". Same thing applies to Tester, Cool , etc.
This is why I think ultimately more players will start making the switch. Someone like Idra or Tester is gonna win the GSL, and make a whole boatload of money. At that point, BW players who are better than them, but not good enough to be true S-class players who make the big bucks, are gonna start thinking, "wait a second...I'm a whole lot better than Idra, and he just made more in a month than I'll make all year. And he's got an excellent chance to do the exact same thing next month."
Of course, the truly top BW players won't have those thoughts. But the mid-level guys? I think more will start taking a serious look at SC2 and the GSL when it really becomes obvious that even b-level BW players are capable of making a lot of money in the GSL.
On September 10 2010 00:27 DrKN wrote: Sure just let them start play sc2. It's great i guess. Hopefull too see them play sc2 on stage. But they will always BW legends, nothing can take that away from them.
On September 09 2010 19:39 Pulimuli wrote: Nada has some of the best mechanics of all time, lol at people saying he wouldnt succeed in sc2 which is even less mechanicly demanding.
also, he's been a top player since 2002 which has to mean something?
He went 1-2 (or 1-1 if you consider the interrupted game still undecided...) against TLO, one of the top SC2 players some weeks ago, and he had only practiced for a week or two he said! Since they hardly play BW anymore anyway, I would love to see them in SC2.
There will be a point at which it will not be worth it for a progamer to switch to SC2. If the only pay is from the prize money earned, then there isn't enough to go around. I just hope that Nada, Boxer and July don't regret their decision because it is likely that a more skilled BW pro will switch over and the prizes which they thought they had a good shot at will be out of reach.
If there was a team league to provide the players with a salary, the situation would be different. However, this does not look likely since Blizzard/Gretech do not want their tournament to be restricted.
As a fan of BW legends, I wish them the best of luck if they do decide to enter the SC2 scene.
On September 09 2010 08:32 Dandy4 wrote: I love korean gossip news, they spread rumors with silhouette puzzles!
seriously, someone should make an internet meme out of it. on a related note, someone should add "a challenger appears!" to those. or "who's that pokemon?"
I really hate this news. For such famous BW players to switch over to SC2............if BW does die omg wtf am I going to do. I'm probably more disappointed in this than Savior being involved in the scandal to be quite honest. I just feel disgusted right now =/
On September 10 2010 02:06 _awake_ wrote: If there was a team league to provide the players with a salary, the situation would be different. However, this does not look likely since Blizzard/Gretech do not want their tournament to be restricted.
Yea... Gretech's made is pretty clear through their dealings with KeSPA that they don't want pro-teams. I really don't see how they expect SC2 to flourish as an eSport if one's only way of making money through it is tournament winnings and not a sponsored salary. I bet if BW dies there won't be another 'Proleague', at least not anytime in the near future.
bw has had its time, sc2 is the future and right now its far from being a perfect game, and bw started off not the most balanced either. Reading these post and seeing all these people complain about sc2 or about these legends switching to sc2 just confuses me. Give it a chance. I honestly feel these guys will come over and help path the way for sc2 and its future.! Broodwar was a great game, but alot of what made it such a great game from a viewer stand point was the old school legends. The new kids are machines but the older guys are simply more creative and more enjoyable to watch. I guess thats just the old school fan inside me watching games 6-7 years ago was much diff then these days, but i found it more intense and enjoyable, and I hope they bring this to the rise of sc2
On September 10 2010 02:06 _awake_ wrote: If there was a team league to provide the players with a salary, the situation would be different. However, this does not look likely since Blizzard/Gretech do not want their tournament to be restricted.
Yea... Gretech's made is pretty clear through their dealings with KeSPA that they don't want pro-teams. I really don't see how they expect SC2 to flourish as an eSport if one's only way of making money through it is tournament winnings and not a sponsored salary. I bet if BW dies there won't be another 'Proleague', at least not anytime in the near future.
The problem with proteams is their exclusitivity and geographical limitations. Players who are trying to get a college degree or who work part time who are potentially great players cannot participate. Also, players can no longer be carried on the backs of their team, even though this is unlikely, it means that players will have to rely on their own will to improve. It might mean less team tournaments, but 1v1 is not a team game. The way it's be set up is much closer to tennis than anything else, which is exactly how it would be if it was a physical sport.
On September 10 2010 01:51 gozima wrote: For all the people that don't think these three will eventually dominate SC2 if they make the switch, IdrA was a B teamer on CJ and he's currently one of the best SC2 "pros". Same thing applies to Tester, Cool , etc.
dont forget Intotherainbow, he was an A-teamer on SKT1 until 2008 and is one of the best terrans around
edit: we also have TheStC who's a former STX member
On September 09 2010 22:49 Boblion wrote: I don't think that Boxer has the skill and shape to success. He is too slow and too old even for Sc2.
Boxer is probably easily A/A+ rank on ICCup. He's likely the most creative player to have ever played BroodWar, and he just got the chance to play a game where his creativity will be more rewarded and being a robot is not neccessary anymore.
The ONLY question is how much real motivation he has left in him.
On September 09 2010 22:49 Boblion wrote: I don't think that Boxer has the skill and shape to success. He is too slow and too old even for Sc2.
Boxer is probably easily A/A+ rank on ICCup. He's likely the most creative player to have ever played BroodWar, and he just got the chance to play a game where his creativity will be more rewarded and being a robot is not neccessary anymore.
The ONLY question is how much real motivation he has left in him.
O.O if Boxer, Nada, and July make the full switch, the game is gonna go through some major changes in terms of builds and how the game is played. :D double Bonjwas!
On September 09 2010 08:32 Dandy4 wrote: I love korean gossip news, they spread rumors with silhouette puzzles!
seriously, someone should make an internet meme out of it. on a related note, someone should add "a challenger appears!" to those. or "who's that pokemon?"
I don't think boxer would want to leave SKT , they treat him too well. he was cofounder after all, and they pay him a big and steady salary, he is no longer a kid that dreams getting big, he had that already. Boxer would switch if he foresees the whole scene switching to sc2, but for now, unlikely
July pretty much confirmed, nada likely, but the last one i don't see it being boxer, maybe it's yellow, or has his return to KT been confirmed ?
On September 10 2010 05:30 SpaceAnt wrote: I don't think boxer would want to leave SKT , they treat him too well. he was cofounder after all, and they pay him a big and steady salary, he is no longer a kid that dreams getting big, he had that already. Boxer would switch if he foresees the whole scene switching to sc2, but for now, unlikely
July pretty much confirmed, nada likely, but the last one i don't see it being boxer, maybe it's yellow, or has his return to KT been confirmed ?
so for now my guess : July, Nada, Yellow.
If C is Yellow, there won't be any recontract talk with ACE for Yellow.
On September 10 2010 07:19 awesomoecalypse wrote: man, why no top toss players making the jump? i'd hate to see these guys revolutionize z and t while toss get left in the dust.
At least there are already Tester and Rainbow in GSL.
On September 10 2010 01:51 gozima wrote: For all the people that don't think these three will eventually dominate SC2 if they make the switch, IdrA was a B teamer on CJ and he's currently one of the best SC2 "pros". Same thing applies to Tester, Cool , etc.
On the flipside, Iron, recent a-reamer who played semi-regularly in proleague tgis last season was knocked out 2-0 in the Ro64....
At least there are already Tester and Rainbow in GSL.
Isn't ITR playing Terran? and Tester was hardly a big name in BW--nothing like Boxer, July or Nada.
More comparable would be if Stork or somebody made the switch. Which probably won't happen cause he's still near the top of his game. Same for Bisu and most of the other top Toss players.
On September 10 2010 01:51 gozima wrote: For all the people that don't think these three will eventually dominate SC2 if they make the switch, IdrA was a B teamer on CJ and he's currently one of the best SC2 "pros". Same thing applies to Tester, Cool , etc.
On the flipside, Iron, recent a-reamer who played semi-regularly in proleague tgis last season was knocked out 2-0 in the Ro64....
i assume he hasnt been playing the game since February though.
I think that if there's any time for Boxer, Nada, July or any other 'old' progamer to shine at Starcraft II, it would be now because at this point Starcraft II rewards creative and strategic play more than what you can build off a standard play.
On September 10 2010 01:51 gozima wrote: For all the people that don't think these three will eventually dominate SC2 if they make the switch, IdrA was a B teamer on CJ and he's currently one of the best SC2 "pros". Same thing applies to Tester, Cool , etc.
On the flipside, Iron, recent a-reamer who played semi-regularly in proleague tgis last season was knocked out 2-0 in the Ro64....
He's a fairly recent addition to the scene and is already ranked #1 in the world on the ladder. Not sure you can use 1 loss in a bo3 as a stick to beat him or BW pros with.
There's no reason to believe any BW pro that switches over wouldn't maintain the same kind of standing in SC2, assuming they put the hours in.
On September 10 2010 01:51 gozima wrote: For all the people that don't think these three will eventually dominate SC2 if they make the switch, IdrA was a B teamer on CJ and he's currently one of the best SC2 "pros". Same thing applies to Tester, Cool , etc.
On the flipside, Iron, recent a-reamer who played semi-regularly in proleague tgis last season was knocked out 2-0 in the Ro64....
On September 10 2010 01:51 gozima wrote: For all the people that don't think these three will eventually dominate SC2 if they make the switch, IdrA was a B teamer on CJ and he's currently one of the best SC2 "pros". Same thing applies to Tester, Cool , etc.
On the flipside, Iron, recent a-reamer who played semi-regularly in proleague tgis last season was knocked out 2-0 in the Ro64....
If it's July/NaDa/Boxer going over, I really can't see any of them except for NaDa doing really successfully. I could be wrong, and part of me hopes I am but I don't really see July/Boxer being able to win the GSL and make a big splash like they did in Brood War. However, if Yellow is going over rather than Boxer, I think he'll end up being the best of the three of 'em.
From their own perspectives, players who can't perform well in BW and can't get a contract renewal with a good salary from their team have nothing to lose and everything to gain by moving to SC2...a game where truly mediocre BW pros like Tester (<40% win rate in BW, pretty terrible!!) have become top tier. July for sure is in this situation.
Nada obviously has some experience with SC2 as well, and given that his team is treating him as probably their 4th Terran (and never played him during the playoffs), he probably has some incentive to switch too. (But I still say Nada > Mind at the very least, if not > Midas too.)
Boxer is an unusual situation. His star power means that if he does make the move I do think BW's relative competitive position will be diminished. But SKT T1 is likely to be willing to continue to pay his salary so unlike the other two the choice for him is not as clear cut, since a switch to SC2 does have its downsides.
Still, I think if Gretech goes through with the lawsuit they've been threatening the outcome of that will overshadow any star player movement.
On September 10 2010 07:41 Carnivorous Sheep wrote:
On September 10 2010 01:51 gozima wrote: For all the people that don't think these three will eventually dominate SC2 if they make the switch, IdrA was a B teamer on CJ and he's currently one of the best SC2 "pros". Same thing applies to Tester, Cool , etc.
On the flipside, Iron, recent a-reamer who played semi-regularly in proleague tgis last season was knocked out 2-0 in the Ro64....
If it's July/NaDa/Boxer going over, I really can't see any of them except for NaDa doing really successfully. I could be wrong, and part of me hopes I am but I don't really see July/Boxer being able to win the GSL and make a big splash like they did in Brood War. However, if Yellow is going over rather than Boxer, I think he'll end up being the best of the three of 'em.
I bet Boxer's having a party in his pants right about now. A new game with undeveloped strategies that doesn't require 300 APM to compete in and is easier to multi-task/macro than SC:BW....sounds like Boxer's wet dream. SC2 plays to all of Boxer's strengths and none of his weaknesses. If Boxer goes out for the GSL, he is going to amaze everyone with pjaw-dropping micro plays of strategies nobody's ever dreamed of.
Boxer pretty much invented and perfected every Terran micro strategy imaginable, and only faded from the scene because other players had faster fingers and better mechanics such as multi-tasking and overall macro. Nobody can out-think or out-micro Boxer, and he will prove it once again in SC2.
On September 10 2010 07:41 Carnivorous Sheep wrote:
On September 10 2010 01:51 gozima wrote: For all the people that don't think these three will eventually dominate SC2 if they make the switch, IdrA was a B teamer on CJ and he's currently one of the best SC2 "pros". Same thing applies to Tester, Cool , etc.
On the flipside, Iron, recent a-reamer who played semi-regularly in proleague tgis last season was knocked out 2-0 in the Ro64....
If it's July/NaDa/Boxer going over, I really can't see any of them except for NaDa doing really successfully. I could be wrong, and part of me hopes I am but I don't really see July/Boxer being able to win the GSL and make a big splash like they did in Brood War. However, if Yellow is going over rather than Boxer, I think he'll end up being the best of the three of 'em.
I bet Boxer's having a party in his pants right about now. A new game with undeveloped strategies that doesn't require 300 APM to compete in and is easier to multi-task/macro than SC:BW....sounds like Boxer's wet dream. SC2 plays to all of Boxer's strengths and none of his weaknesses. If Boxer goes out for the GSL, he is going to amaze everyone with pjaw-dropping micro plays of strategies nobody's ever dreamed of.
Boxer pretty much invented and perfected every Terran micro strategy imaginable, and only faded from the scene because other players had faster fingers and better mechanics such as multi-tasking and overall macro. Nobody can out-think or out-micro Boxer, and he will prove it once again in SC2.
SC2 only got as famous as it did because of SC1 getting so much publicity after being developed for 12 years. within a year i predict SC2 to not become anymore popular than warcraft 3
On September 10 2010 07:41 Carnivorous Sheep wrote:
On September 10 2010 01:51 gozima wrote: For all the people that don't think these three will eventually dominate SC2 if they make the switch, IdrA was a B teamer on CJ and he's currently one of the best SC2 "pros". Same thing applies to Tester, Cool , etc.
On the flipside, Iron, recent a-reamer who played semi-regularly in proleague tgis last season was knocked out 2-0 in the Ro64....
If it's July/NaDa/Boxer going over, I really can't see any of them except for NaDa doing really successfully. I could be wrong, and part of me hopes I am but I don't really see July/Boxer being able to win the GSL and make a big splash like they did in Brood War. However, if Yellow is going over rather than Boxer, I think he'll end up being the best of the three of 'em.
I bet Boxer's having a party in his pants right about now. A new game with undeveloped strategies that doesn't require 300 APM to compete in and is easier to multi-task/macro than SC:BW....sounds like Boxer's wet dream. SC2 plays to all of Boxer's strengths and none of his weaknesses. If Boxer goes out for the GSL, he is going to amaze everyone with pjaw-dropping micro plays of strategies nobody's ever dreamed of.
Boxer pretty much invented and perfected every Terran micro strategy imaginable, and only faded from the scene because other players had faster fingers and better mechanics such as multi-tasking and overall macro. Nobody can out-think or out-micro Boxer, and he will prove it once again in SC2.
SC2 only got as famous as it did because of SC1 getting so much publicity after being developed for 12 years. within a year i predict SC2 to not become anymore popular than warcraft 3
WC3 was set to become quite popular in korea until there was a huge scandal and the public shunned the game. If sc2 avoids this then it will become what WC3 was never able to.
Uhhh SC2 is popular because its made from Blizzard, who has a record of quality PC games. Most people who buy it could care less about how the SC1 scene is doing.
I really think this should be in the SC2 forums as well. I almost missed it. This is good news, I like it.
In response to SC2 popularity only because of BW
On September 10 2010 10:13 Klogon wrote: Uhhh SC2 is popular because its made from Blizzard, who has a record of quality PC games. Most people who buy it could care less about how the SC1 scene is doing.
It's time for the old progamers to dominate, since they don't need as much hand speed in SC2 anymore :D I thought Kespa was trying to get all the teams to boycott SC2, though.
It's time for the old progamers to dominate, since they don't need as much hand speed in SC2 anymore :D I thought Kespa was trying to get all the teams to boycott SC2, though.
This is another reason that they are leaving their teams so that they can playand not worry about any BS rules kespa might put on them.
I know Nada has to be pissed about what kespa pulled with his showmatch With TLO.
On September 10 2010 10:13 Klogon wrote: Uhhh SC2 is popular because its made from Blizzard, who has a record of quality PC games. Most people who buy it could care less about how the SC1 scene is doing.
Pretty much this. I have a lot of friends who are playing SC2 just because it is a Blizzard game, a few of them played BW or WC3 sometime, and none actually knows who is July or Nada (Boxer is a legend), so im the only nerd who knows what is the OSL/MSL/Flash/Jaedong/etc and what is going on.
On September 10 2010 07:41 Carnivorous Sheep wrote:
On September 10 2010 01:51 gozima wrote: For all the people that don't think these three will eventually dominate SC2 if they make the switch, IdrA was a B teamer on CJ and he's currently one of the best SC2 "pros". Same thing applies to Tester, Cool , etc.
On the flipside, Iron, recent a-reamer who played semi-regularly in proleague tgis last season was knocked out 2-0 in the Ro64....
If it's July/NaDa/Boxer going over, I really can't see any of them except for NaDa doing really successfully. I could be wrong, and part of me hopes I am but I don't really see July/Boxer being able to win the GSL and make a big splash like they did in Brood War. However, if Yellow is going over rather than Boxer, I think he'll end up being the best of the three of 'em.
I bet Boxer's having a party in his pants right about now. A new game with undeveloped strategies that doesn't require 300 APM to compete in and is easier to multi-task/macro than SC:BW....sounds like Boxer's wet dream. SC2 plays to all of Boxer's strengths and none of his weaknesses. If Boxer goes out for the GSL, he is going to amaze everyone with pjaw-dropping micro plays of strategies nobody's ever dreamed of.
Boxer pretty much invented and perfected every Terran micro strategy imaginable, and only faded from the scene because other players had faster fingers and better mechanics such as multi-tasking and overall macro. Nobody can out-think or out-micro Boxer, and he will prove it once again in SC2.
SC2 only got as famous as it did because of SC1 getting so much publicity after being developed for 12 years. within a year i predict SC2 to not become anymore popular than warcraft 3
WC3 was basically killed because blizzard stopped supporting it completely, focusing 100% on SC2 (which went over schedule by afew years)..
If WC3 had map-makers like the korean BW community has, and minor balance changes from blizzard, it would still be a widely popular game. Maybe not as big as BW is in korea, but it would still be going strong. People are still playing the same maps from like 2004 on WC3, its a shame and that leads to no new strats/metagame changes.. Imagine if BW was still being played on Lost Temple everygame, thats how I feel WC3 ended up.
On September 10 2010 10:13 Klogon wrote: Uhhh SC2 is popular because its made from Blizzard, who has a record of quality PC games. Most people who buy it could care less about how the SC1 scene is doing.
And to tack on, it got rave reviews everywhere, telling everyone "PLAY THIS SHIT NOW IT'S THE BEST GAME OF THE YEAR" by about 80% of gaming publications. the amount of people playing is no shocker.
Well, July is dead to me, like Savior was after the fixing scandal.
If you seriously see switching to a game where he'll actually get playing time as being morally comparable to cheating and harming the integrity of the game, you have a fucked up perspective.
Ehhh seeing how the micro is what really seperated July from the rest, I'm not sure he'll do so well. But w/ simplified mechanics, I guess he'll do fine.
I don't think Nada is Progamer B, because apparently Progamer B had been playing since the Beta Test, and Nada only played SC2 for 10 days before his Showmatch.
And on the contrary, I don't think Boxer will do that well in SC2.. it seems to me that his main problem is his reaction timing, which seems awfully slow in his recent games..
On September 11 2010 03:18 ilj.psa wrote: im disliking sc2 more by the day.
QFT. I went into a post linked by Milkis to the SC2 forum and Jesus Christ, I can't believe the kind of shit that is on these forums nowadays. Fuck SC2.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but it seems like July, as compared to NaDa and maybe Boxer, has played in less televised BW major tournaments than either. NaDa actually got to play in proleague and it was always so awesome to see him, but he's got his 100 wins and I anticipate him being used even less in the future. Boxer was even more rarely used but when he was it was epic (nukes vs Killer).
But I never see July anymore, and I'd rather see him play SC2 than nothing at all. If NaDa and Boxer think they won't be used in proleague in the future, then it's better for everyone if they move on to SC2 as well. This is coming from a huge NaDa fanboy btw.
On September 11 2010 03:18 ilj.psa wrote: im disliking sc2 more by the day.
QFT. I went into a post linked by Milkis to the SC2 forum and Jesus Christ, I can't believe the kind of shit that is on these forums nowadays. Fuck SC2.
Didnt take long for BW forum to get old and sore t.t
On September 11 2010 03:18 ilj.psa wrote: im disliking sc2 more by the day.
QFT. I went into a post linked by Milkis to the SC2 forum and Jesus Christ, I can't believe the kind of shit that is on these forums nowadays. Fuck SC2.
Didnt take long for BW forum to get old and sore t.t
Regarding Starcraft 2's gameplay, he said that "I think the game has gotten more difficult compared to the original", adding that "But because I had experience playing Starcraft as a progamer, I'm getting better rapidly."
But go ahead, keep claiming that SC2 is so "easy". I'm sure you know better than July.
Regarding Starcraft 2's gameplay, he said that "I think the game has gotten more difficult compared to the original", adding that "But because I had experience playing Starcraft as a progamer, I'm getting better rapidly."
But go ahead, keep claiming that SC2 is so "easy". I'm sure you know better than July.
Of course the person switching games is gonna promote it. It's called good marketing. It's his job to make money, and if he claims that SC2 is the better game, it might bring more viewers and therefore more money to the scene and to him. How come so few other progamers have come out with statements like that? Because they haven't made the switch. QED, July's statement could possibly not mean shit. If it required more skill than SC1 then July would have no chance in SC2 just like he is flailing now in SC1. Stop being so smug with your sarcastic remarks if they are disassembled so easily, you're making a fool of yourself.
But go ahead, keep claiming that SC2 is so "fucking awesome." I'm sure you know better than other people about their opinions.
That and he's still tinkering with Zerg. Whenever you make the switch to a new video game there's going to be a small learning curve. The guy has 1000 games to his name, but hell it takes a lot of practice to get your execution there.
Regarding Starcraft 2's gameplay, he said that "I think the game has gotten more difficult compared to the original", adding that "But because I had experience playing Starcraft as a progamer, I'm getting better rapidly."
But go ahead, keep claiming that SC2 is so "easy". I'm sure you know better than July.
Of course the person switching games is gonna promote it. It's called good marketing. It's his job to make money, and if he claims that SC2 is the better game, it might bring more viewers and therefore more money to the scene and to him. How come so few other progamers have come out with statements like that? Because they haven't made the switch. QED, July's statement could possibly not mean shit. If it required more skill than SC1 then July would have no chance in SC2 just like he is flailing now in SC1. Stop being so smug with your sarcastic remarks if they are disassembled so easily, you're making a fool of yourself.
But go ahead, keep claiming that SC2 is so "fucking awesome." I'm sure you know better than other people about their opinions.
he didnt even say it's more difficult than BW, he said it's gotten more difficult compared to BW, which means that the game has gotten harder (similar to BW), but not necessarily moreso than BW. at least that's how I read it lol.
why wouldnt he just say "it's more difficult than BW" then? Or is that just a translator thing? I dont think ANYONE would actually argue that SC2 is harder than BW in the 1st place though lol. except maybe idra vs other white people where he isnt as far ahead mechanically anymore, but that's a new competitive pool being harder, not the game itself.
On September 11 2010 03:41 Slow Motion wrote: Correct me if I'm wrong, but it seems like July, as compared to NaDa and maybe Boxer, has played in less televised BW major tournaments than either. NaDa actually got to play in proleague and it was always so awesome to see him, but he's got his 100 wins and I anticipate him being used even less in the future. Boxer was even more rarely used but when he was it was epic (nukes vs Killer).
But I never see July anymore, and I'd rather see him play SC2 than nothing at all. If NaDa and Boxer think they won't be used in proleague in the future, then it's better for everyone if they move on to SC2 as well. This is coming from a huge NaDa fanboy btw.
I'd rather see July train harder and play BW again . or at least apply for ACE, they NEED a zerg lol. i've already been missing seeing him play for a while now, but now there's no hope of him ever making a comeback
Regarding Starcraft 2's gameplay, he said that "I think the game has gotten more difficult compared to the original", adding that "But because I had experience playing Starcraft as a progamer, I'm getting better rapidly."
But go ahead, keep claiming that SC2 is so "easy". I'm sure you know better than July.
Sorry, but, what? July is the first pro player anywhere that's actually said that StarCraft 2 is harder than Brood War. I wouldn't even be surprised if that's a mistranslation too.
I wouldn't say that SC2 is "so easy," but Brood War is still a lot harder. I think the only people who could really disagree with that statement are people who have either never played Brood War or who are trying to promote a game that they're making a career switch to.
when brood war came out it was easy too. 5base vs 5base was only a dream in 1v1 and people were thinking "I would only go 3rd base if my main drains out."
after a while when players started to discover game deeply, they also discovered new boundries so the game got harder and harder.
brood war is hard today because of players discovered new boundries. pushed themselves harder.
now its sc2. ppl are saying you need less apm this game. I don't aggre. Because when ppl push boundries further, they will find a new use for exceed apm. i.e: fighting 5 different locations with using abilities that are given and succeeding it in 1-2 second. it is just an example just try to get my point. even gameplay may change, map designs may change.
I believe sc2 will be hard as much as brood war. But not yet. players will improve, gameplay will improve. it's your very existence who appreciate new tactics and builds you have never seen before right this very day. this will continue I'm sure.
the boundries and capacities will be pushed (very hard) and ppl will see it's not %100 the game makes the game difficult itself, it's the players.
so, in my opinion saying "sc2 is not hard" is not learning and understanding from sc1 experience.
I believe each of us had seen something new while we had been watching NaDa vs TLO in Steppes of War. Ppl were in shock, trying to understand what was happening. (macro-wise they were watching something entirely new) tank placement for domination of middle area and expanding like there is no tomorrow and also keeping the upper hand with a very unfamiliar style of play, that was something new.
That day, nada pushed boundries a little bit too, showed us a different kind of play, and I say, there will be more pushing boundries more and more.
and if you think that what nada did that day was "not hard" I think you are being subjective.
On September 11 2010 06:15 Murderotica wrote: But go ahead, keep claiming that SC2 is so "fucking awesome." I'm sure you know better than other people about their opinions.
With the attitude you've exhibited in this thread you're not one to talk about other people's opinions. I liked it better when anti-SC2 people just stuck to BW instead of going on crusades.
when brood war came out it was easy too. 5base vs 5base was only a dream in 1v1 and people were thinking "I would only go 3rd base if my main drains out."
after a while when players started to discover game deeply, they also discovered new boundries so the game got harder and harder.
brood war is hard today because of players discovered new boundries. pushed themselves harder.
now its sc2. ppl are saying you need less apm this game. I don't aggre. Because when ppl push boundries further, they will find a new use for exceed apm. i.e: fighting 5 different locations with using abilities that are given and succeeding it in 1-2 second. it is just an example just try to get my point. even gameplay may change, map designs may change.
I believe sc2 will be hard as much as brood war. But not yet. players will improve, gameplay will improve. it's your very existence who appreciate new tactics and builds you have never seen before right this very day. this will continue I'm sure.
the boundries and capacities will be pushed (very hard) and ppl will see it's not %100 the game makes the game difficult itself, it's the players.
so, in my opinion saying "sc2 is not hard" is not learning and understanding from sc1 experience.
I believe each of us had seen something new while we had been watching NaDa vs TLO in Steppes of War. Ppl were in shock, trying to understand what was happening. (macro-wise they were watching something entirely new) tank placement for domination of middle area and expanding like there is no tomorrow and also keeping the upper hand with a very unfamiliar style of play, that was something new.
That day, nada pushed boundries a little bit too, showed us a different kind of play, and I say, there will be more pushing boundries more and more.
and if you think that what nada did that day was "not hard" I think you are being subjective.
We aren't even talking about the way the game is played yet, just simply the mechanics. Go back to playing Brood War for like a week, without all of the new features in SC2. You can't just lump an entire army together, you are forced to use control groups. The unit AI and pathing is horrible by comparison. You can't block off with ease like you can in SC2. Brood War, at any level of play, is just straight up harder and requires more APM. Yeah, players with lower APM can win games in BW or SC2 against players with higher APM, but in BW a player with substantially higher APM will consistently defeat a player with lower APM whereas in SC2 it's not as big of a deal (at least not yet).
Some things will definitely change about the game and APM may become more important in the future. However I don't feel like SC2 can ever be considered harder than BW unless the game mechanics themselves are completely changed around which would require Blizzard to essentially "dumb down" the game and make it less casual and less noob friendly. I don't think anyone at all is faulting Blizzard for making SC2 easier, it makes sense because the vast majority of people who buy the game aren't going to even care about pro SC2. I also don't think that fans of SC2 should take, "SC2 is easier than BW," as if it's some kind of insult or saying that SC2 is a simple game. It's still hard, if it wasn't everyone would be a pro gamer. It's just not as hard as Brood War and honestly I don't think anyone was expecting it to be.
Regarding Starcraft 2's gameplay, he said that "I think the game has gotten more difficult compared to the original", adding that "But because I had experience playing Starcraft as a progamer, I'm getting better rapidly."
But go ahead, keep claiming that SC2 is so "easy". I'm sure you know better than July.
sure, playing a new game is difficult than a game you already know.
SC2 is easier than BW , thats afact.
I vote for this to move to the SC2 forums, too much trolls in here
On September 11 2010 06:15 Murderotica wrote: But go ahead, keep claiming that SC2 is so "fucking awesome." I'm sure you know better than other people about their opinions.
With the attitude you've exhibited in this thread you're not one to talk about other people's opinions. I liked it better when anti-SC2 people just stuck to BW instead of going on crusades.
Lol? Do you even understand what I said? I was accusing him of trying to fill in the opinions of others with the sweeping notion that everyone likes the game the same way he does. With the comprehension you've exhibited in this thread you're not one to talk about... Yea. lol. Anyways, was not a SC2 crusade, busting into a thread completely unrelated to BW. Look around you, there are many people who are pissed that progamers are moving to BW. Hence it is relevant. You just target me because I wrote the longest post about it. Crusade is never over.
...practically 90% of Terran mechanics in SC2 make the race retardedly easy IMO. I hate Terrans on average, but I love Flash because he's such a monster...he does literally everything right, and deserves his wins. Unfortunately with SC2, players that really suck compared to pros (Drewbie, Silver, etc) can get wins against pros because their race is so overpowered.
Regarding Starcraft 2's gameplay, he said that "I think the game has gotten more difficult compared to the original", adding that "But because I had experience playing Starcraft as a progamer, I'm getting better rapidly."
But go ahead, keep claiming that SC2 is so "easy". I'm sure you know better than July.
Sorry, but, what? July is the first pro player anywhere that's actually said that StarCraft 2 is harder than Brood War. I wouldn't even be surprised if that's a mistranslation too.
I wouldn't say that SC2 is "so easy," but Brood War is still a lot harder. I think the only people who could really disagree with that statement are people who have either never played Brood War or who are trying to promote a game that they're making a career switch to.
I wouldn't be so quick to blindly go by this bandwagon train. For starters SC2 has A MUCH WIDER strategical sense when it comes to unit compositions. I highly doubt we're always going to see the same 3 units in a matchup. I really think there is alot more depth in that department. we haven't even scratched the surface of SC2. and i haven't seen anyone who can macro close to as good as flash can Despite bw being THAT much harder to macro properly. There is alot to do and I think its still going to be very difficult to properly macro unless your top tier.
compared to everyone here I for one don't know shit bout BW. What i do know is its a very demanding game that requires alot of practice and has had12 years or to evolve into what it is today. Right now, SC2 is 2 months old? How bad was sc1 at 2 months old. Of course its not at the level of BW but it probably is the future, will it be better? fuck who knows... would anyone have thought sc1 would be were it is today? I just don't get all the hate for the game.
Its seems like SC2 is the grim reaper and he just walked in the room with SC1 and everyone is like OH FUCK and doing everything they can to get him out of the room. Bad analogy?
Well whatever the case is BW is an amazing game and probably will never be top'd (i say this and have VERY little knowledge of the game) but that doesn't mean sc2 can't be for a new generation.
On September 11 2010 06:15 Murderotica wrote: But go ahead, keep claiming that SC2 is so "fucking awesome." I'm sure you know better than other people about their opinions.
With the attitude you've exhibited in this thread you're not one to talk about other people's opinions. I liked it better when anti-SC2 people just stuck to BW instead of going on crusades.
This is the BW forums... the SC2 fans are the ones invading here. This thread probably belongs in the SC2 section moreso than the BW section.
On September 11 2010 06:08 awesomoecalypse wrote: + Show Spoiler +
It doesn't change the fact that SC2 is shit?
from July's announcement:
Regarding Starcraft 2's gameplay, he said that "I think the game has gotten more difficult compared to the original", adding that "But because I had experience playing Starcraft as a progamer, I'm getting better rapidly."
But go ahead, keep claiming that SC2 is so "easy". I'm sure you know better than July.
Sorry, but, what? July is the first pro player anywhere that's actually said that StarCraft 2 is harder than Brood War. I wouldn't even be surprised if that's a mistranslation too.
I wouldn't say that SC2 is "so easy," but Brood War is still a lot harder. I think the only people who could really disagree with that statement are people who have either never played Brood War or who are trying to promote a game that they're making a career switch to.
I wouldn't be so quick to blindly go by this bandwagon train. For starters SC2 has A MUCH WIDER strategical sense when it comes to unit compositions. I highly doubt we're always going to see the same 3 units in a matchup. I really think there is alot more depth in that department. we haven't even scratched the surface of SC2. and i haven't seen anyone who can macro close to as good as flash can Despite bw being THAT much harder to macro properly. There is alot to do and I think its still going to be very difficult to properly macro unless your top tier.
I wouldn't really call it a bandwagon, SC2 is just straight up easier. By my first few games I got a handle on good build orders, fast expanding, and plenty of other things in both the micro and macro department. You're welcome to disagree and that's perfectly fine, but just try playing Brood War for a week. You don't even have to play on iCCup or anything just try playing against the AI and compare doing basic things in Brood War to things in SC2. This isn't about complex game strategies as those certainly need time to evolve, at the very basic levels of the game and functions SC2 is way easier than Brood War.
Maybe july meant it's hard to be a top player in sc2. I think Sc2 is much much much much much easier than sc1gameplay wise, however, maybe that's what makes the game harder for pro players. The lesser players have chance to beat them. That means they have to do that extra work to a get niche ahead of everyone (instead of being miles ahead by practicing).
Let face it, Proleague can not survive for long without Blizzard's approval. The next season may well be the last, and eventually people will start moving.
And dun forget, FLASH IS GOING TO DESTROY SC1 TONIGHT!
On September 11 2010 06:15 Murderotica wrote: But go ahead, keep claiming that SC2 is so "fucking awesome." I'm sure you know better than other people about their opinions.
With the attitude you've exhibited in this thread you're not one to talk about other people's opinions. I liked it better when anti-SC2 people just stuck to BW instead of going on crusades.
This is the BW forums... the SC2 fans are the ones invading here. This thread probably belongs in the SC2 section moreso than the BW section.
no this is probably more sentimental for old time bw fans.
On September 11 2010 06:15 Murderotica wrote: But go ahead, keep claiming that SC2 is so "fucking awesome." I'm sure you know better than other people about their opinions.
With the attitude you've exhibited in this thread you're not one to talk about other people's opinions. I liked it better when anti-SC2 people just stuck to BW instead of going on crusades.
This is the BW forums... the SC2 fans are the ones invading here. This thread probably belongs in the SC2 section moreso than the BW section.
that explains BW fans invading sc2 forums (Julyzerg thread)
On September 11 2010 06:15 Murderotica wrote: But go ahead, keep claiming that SC2 is so "fucking awesome." I'm sure you know better than other people about their opinions.
With the attitude you've exhibited in this thread you're not one to talk about other people's opinions. I liked it better when anti-SC2 people just stuck to BW instead of going on crusades.
Lol? Do you even understand what I said? I was accusing him of trying to fill in the opinions of others with the sweeping notion that everyone likes the game the same way he does. With the comprehension you've exhibited in this thread you're not one to talk about... Yea. lol. Anyways, was not a SC2 crusade, busting into a thread completely unrelated to BW. Look around you, there are many people who are pissed that progamers are moving to BW. Hence it is relevant. You just target me because I wrote the longest post about it. Crusade is never over.
You accused him of something he never did, then. He saw someone say "SC2 is shit" and posted a positive quote about SC2 from a beloved BW figure. He never said anyone else agreed with July and you can't say he's putting words in July's mouth because those are literally his words. If you had bothered to read any of the thread before you started frothing at the bit to attack someone, you'd probably also have noticed some of his previous posts such as:
For all the people that don't think these three will eventually dominate SC2 if they make the switch, IdrA was a B teamer on CJ and he's currently one of the best SC2 "pros". Same thing applies to Tester, Cool , etc.
This is why I think ultimately more players will start making the switch. Someone like Idra or Tester is gonna win the GSL, and make a whole boatload of money. At that point, BW players who are better than them, but not good enough to be true S-class players who make the big bucks, are gonna start thinking, "wait a second...I'm a whole lot better than Idra, and he just made more in a month than I'll make all year. And he's got an excellent chance to do the exact same thing next month."
Of course, the truly top BW players won't have those thoughts. But the mid-level guys? I think more will start taking a serious look at SC2 and the GSL when it really becomes obvious that even b-level BW players are capable of making a lot of money in the GSL.
where he appears to agree with the idea that people who play BW averagely would do extremely well in SC2.
There are examples of people shoving their overwhelmingly pungent opinions in others' faces, however:
On September 07 2010 13:42 Murderotica wrote: Alright hold on before I fully commit to this will there be ANYONE playing not SC2? Because let's be real, I don't judge you guys but I'm not gay.
Well...do you have anything against being around a bunch of gay people? *holds up pitchfork and torch*
Good thing you brought those for me, I need them for my hunt on gaySC2 players.
So calm down and check yourself. Just because this is the BW forum doesn't mean someone who likes SC2 can't be in here. It's possible to like both.
On September 09 2010 03:25 HaruHaru wrote: This is sad. The real death of BW
Yeah because these players are totally active in the BW scene at the moment.
edit: And further, I don't know how anyone could be pissed by this. Anyone who is currently actively playing BW (in the singles leagues and being put out regularly by their teams in Proleague) is NOT going to SC2 anytime soon.
I hope this isn't the catalyst for a lot of other BW progamers to transition to sc2. I watched OSL finals today and it reminded me that this might be one of the last big BW events if things are going like it is now. Would love it if both scenes can co-exist. But if it's Boxer and NaDa then I hope they can bring the same game like they did in BW to sc2.
The skill required for both games is extremely high. SC2 focuses on an incredibly finicky and difficult to control AI for combat that requires 300+ apm to correctly control, read: TLO's fights in the GSL. SC:BW requires Insane base management and macro control in order to gain any semblance of an army or map control also with a very bad auto kill system *granted only a real issue for seige tanks but the point still stands.
Both games requires insane amounts of skill to play at the highest level and constant infighting will only serve to hurt the community and ourselves. Condescension from BW players and community only hurts you guys and you wanted e-sports to take off? This attitude is how you want to greet new players wanting to become better players? When we all first joined we were the worst players of all time, clicking our way to victory with not a key bind in sight. Somehow behind the APM, the tricks and splits we have lost track of what these games mean to us.
Fun.
The western world missed the boat on fun with SC1. But with SC2 you might be able to see it happen here, in your own backyard. If you feel that your own latent elitism is necessary then so be it.
But hurting a community that has stood the test of time with vitriolic remarks to the players that have early adopted the game and to the players that already find enjoyment and passion in it is just plain selfish. It's mean and I thought all of us as players of games and broodwar, we'd know that games are more than about a single player but its about the community behind them. Hopefully we all start remembering that and accept and embrace new players instead of raging at them for no good reason. You won't succeed in purging the site of sc2, and you won't succeed in making them all hate sc2, this needless lashing out only hurts feelings and makes people sad.
On September 11 2010 17:28 urashimakt wrote: blah blah blah
Once again you have the misconception that I said he was putting words in July's mouth. What I am saying is he put words in OUR mouth. SC2 can't be an indisputably better game if there is dispute. Check yourself.
when brood war came out it was easy too. 5base vs 5base was only a dream in 1v1 and people were thinking "I would only go 3rd base if my main drains out."
after a while when players started to discover game deeply, they also discovered new boundries so the game got harder and harder.
brood war is hard today because of players discovered new boundries. pushed themselves harder.
now its sc2. ppl are saying you need less apm this game. I don't aggre. Because when ppl push boundries further, they will find a new use for exceed apm. i.e: fighting 5 different locations with using abilities that are given and succeeding it in 1-2 second. it is just an example just try to get my point. even gameplay may change, map designs may change.
I believe sc2 will be hard as much as brood war. But not yet. players will improve, gameplay will improve. it's your very existence who appreciate new tactics and builds you have never seen before right this very day. this will continue I'm sure.
the boundries and capacities will be pushed (very hard) and ppl will see it's not %100 the game makes the game difficult itself, it's the players.
so, in my opinion saying "sc2 is not hard" is not learning and understanding from sc1 experience.
I believe each of us had seen something new while we had been watching NaDa vs TLO in Steppes of War. Ppl were in shock, trying to understand what was happening. (macro-wise they were watching something entirely new) tank placement for domination of middle area and expanding like there is no tomorrow and also keeping the upper hand with a very unfamiliar style of play, that was something new.
That day, nada pushed boundries a little bit too, showed us a different kind of play, and I say, there will be more pushing boundries more and more.
and if you think that what nada did that day was "not hard" I think you are being subjective.
We aren't even talking about the way the game is played yet, just simply the mechanics. Go back to playing Brood War for like a week, without all of the new features in SC2. You can't just lump an entire army together, you are forced to use control groups. The unit AI and pathing is horrible by comparison. You can't block off with ease like you can in SC2. Brood War, at any level of play, is just straight up harder and requires more APM. Yeah, players with lower APM can win games in BW or SC2 against players with higher APM, but in BW a player with substantially higher APM will consistently defeat a player with lower APM whereas in SC2 it's not as big of a deal (at least not yet).
Some things will definitely change about the game and APM may become more important in the future. However I don't feel like SC2 can ever be considered harder than BW unless the game mechanics themselves are completely changed around which would require Blizzard to essentially "dumb down" the game and make it less casual and less noob friendly. I don't think anyone at all is faulting Blizzard for making SC2 easier, it makes sense because the vast majority of people who buy the game aren't going to even care about pro SC2. I also don't think that fans of SC2 should take, "SC2 is easier than BW," as if it's some kind of insult or saying that SC2 is a simple game. It's still hard, if it wasn't everyone would be a pro gamer. It's just not as hard as Brood War and honestly I don't think anyone was expecting it to be.
I honestly find it funny how people think that more pros will switch over to SC2 because of the bigger prize pool and money you can make by playing in the GSL. Um, realize that only like the top four will ever make money? I'd rather have a stable income than none at all and risking to play a game where any idiot can be good at and win.
Not to mention the majority of these kids (BW players) are in their teens or early twenties. Them making money in the five digit figures alone is HUGE. Oh right, all of their food and living conditions are provided to them on a regular basis without a fee.
On September 12 2010 01:21 Amnesia wrote: I honestly find it funny how people think that more pros will switch over to SC2 because of the bigger prize pool and money you can make by playing in the GSL. Um, realize that only like the top four will ever make money? I'd rather have a stable income than none at all and risking to play a game where any idiot can be good at and win.
Not to mention the majority of these kids (BW players) are in their teens or early twenties. Them making money in the five digit figures alone is HUGE. Oh right, all of their food and living conditions are provided to them on a regular basis without a fee.
1. Do you really think all of the BW progamers get stable income? Only tip top players get huge amount of money I think there was a post where top30 ranked progamer was gaining like about 12 times less income than top 1. 2. "risking to play a game where any idiot can be good at and win." That is such an arrogant statement. Go ahead and try to beat Idra. I dare you.
On September 12 2010 01:21 Amnesia wrote: I honestly find it funny how people think that more pros will switch over to SC2 because of the bigger prize pool and money you can make by playing in the GSL. Um, realize that only like the top four will ever make money? I'd rather have a stable income than none at all and risking to play a game where any idiot can be good at and win.
Not to mention the majority of these kids (BW players) are in their teens or early twenties. Them making money in the five digit figures alone is HUGE. Oh right, all of their food and living conditions are provided to them on a regular basis without a fee.
ye sc2 is really easy. anyone can win. do you think before you put text on your monitor?
On September 11 2010 17:28 urashimakt wrote: blah blah blah
Once again you have the misconception that I said he was putting words in July's mouth. What I am saying is he put words in OUR mouth. SC2 can't be an indisputably better game if there is dispute. Check yourself.
Wow this is COOL news. Just great. The only weird things are the comments here, strange elitism by a lot of people, I mean July, Nada and Boxer were not good at all anymore recently in BW, so it's no loss, but they are just so experienced players that they will crush into the SC2 scene without a doubt. SC2 strategies aren't near any refinement by now, so older and experienced players will have much more advantages because of general strategic sense, it's not like the korean BW scene nowadays which seems to be mostly 15-19 year old kids
I don't get why so many people here are upset or sad about it. Just doesn't make sense to me. It's awesome news, for me the best news for some weeks Continue supporting SC:BW to have some more years of awesomeness, but there's no reason why you shouldn't support SC2 too, it's basically the same game with easier gamemechanics but just as much depth.
On September 11 2010 17:28 urashimakt wrote: blah blah blah
Once again you have the misconception that I said he was putting words in July's mouth. What I am saying is he put words in OUR mouth. SC2 can't be an indisputably better game if there is dispute. Check yourself.
I have passion for those with reading comprehension problems, I really do. If the only person he said felt anything about anything was July and it was a direct quote, he put words in no one's mouth. You just want an argument.
Shim Hyun plays with us again, giving us "Progamer A,B,C" this time.
Progamer A - Wanted to participate for this season of GSL, but was not able to due to his contract with his team. He is looking to participate in the preliminaries of the second season of GSL this upcoming October. He is still practicing hard, and said that if he participated in the preliminaries, he would have been able to make it to the main stages. He updated us on his situation by saying that next season, he is preparing hard so that he could make it the semi finals.
Pretty much confirmed to be July.
Progamer B - Has already left the team and is living by himself. He announced to hsi team that he is not going to have another contract, and preparing for the switch to SC2. There is a very high chance that he will join the SC2 game team that Progamer A is a part of. Has enjoyed playing since the beta test, and is preparing to participate in the preliminaries.
Rumors have it that this is NaDa.
Progamer C - Also did not recontract, and is known to be transitioning to SC2. His contract ended at the end of June. After that, he extended his contract a bit due to suggestion of the team and the people around him, but recently he gave up on getting another contract and has decided to move onto SC2.
Nada took a game off TLO at IEM and Nada had no clue what to build in SC2 - his win off of TLO was purely due to insane micro and macro, but his short time playing SC2 showed in his Build Order.
Boxer going to SC2 - wow - would love to see Boxer relevant again.
On September 10 2010 09:53 Devolved wrote: I bet Boxer's having a party in his pants right about now. A new game with undeveloped strategies that doesn't require 300 APM to compete in and is easier to multi-task/macro than SC:BW....sounds like Boxer's wet dream. SC2 plays to all of Boxer's strengths and none of his weaknesses. If Boxer goes out for the GSL, he is going to amaze everyone with pjaw-dropping micro plays of strategies nobody's ever dreamed of.
Boxer pretty much invented and perfected every Terran micro strategy imaginable, and only faded from the scene because other players had faster fingers and better mechanics such as multi-tasking and overall macro. Nobody can out-think or out-micro Boxer, and he will prove it once again in SC2.
Boxer winning the GSL would be EPIC. Return of the Emperor Terran!
On September 10 2010 09:53 Devolved wrote: I bet Boxer's having a party in his pants right about now. A new game with undeveloped strategies that doesn't require 300 APM to compete in and is easier to multi-task/macro than SC:BW....sounds like Boxer's wet dream. SC2 plays to all of Boxer's strengths and none of his weaknesses. If Boxer goes out for the GSL, he is going to amaze everyone with pjaw-dropping micro plays of strategies nobody's ever dreamed of.
Boxer pretty much invented and perfected every Terran micro strategy imaginable, and only faded from the scene because other players had faster fingers and better mechanics such as multi-tasking and overall macro. Nobody can out-think or out-micro Boxer, and he will prove it once again in SC2.
Boxer winning the GSL would be EPIC. Return of the Emperor Terran!
I don't really care about NaDa moving, aside from being an icon on the bench (and playing once in a blue moon) his part of BW was over. Boxer would be about the same (as was july). So far the only ones who were switching were washed out progamers and b-teamers. What I am sad about is the other news like estro and MVP/Guemchi. If/when bw dies, I think I'm done with TL sc2 bores the bejesus out of me (maybe that will change someday, but probably not anytime soon). I know the sc2 fanboys are all giddy every time they hear about the possibility of a BW player retiring, but I'm just not one of them.
On September 17 2010 14:20 Ancient.eu wrote: Hmm, 3 very big names, one for each race, switching to Starcraft 2 around the same period. Does anybody suspect Blizzard involvement in this ?
If Flash announced he was switching over then I'd understanding people's upset comments, but why would this be sad or say anything about BW when the players don't even really competitively play anymore anyways?
Great news for SC2, though. Can't wait to see how things will be looking like a year from now!
On September 17 2010 14:27 Befree wrote: If Flash announced he was switching over then I'd understanding people's upset comments, but why would this be sad or say anything about BW when the players don't even really competitively play anymore anyways?
Because they don't want BW to die and when household names - albeit, household names that are past their prime - switch over to SC2, they become more worried about the fate of BW.
On September 17 2010 14:27 Befree wrote: If Flash announced he was switching over then I'd understanding people's upset comments, but why would this be sad or say anything about BW when the players don't even really competitively play anymore anyways?
Because they don't want BW to die and when household names - albeit, household names that are past their prime - switch over to SC2, they become more worried about the fate of BW.
My analogy would be: When a top football club has an over-the-hill star that they never field anymore, when that player finally decides to move on to some scrub club to continue playing, what is the impact to that top club? Absolutely jack shit
On September 17 2010 14:20 Ancient.eu wrote: Hmm, 3 very big names, one for each race, switching to Starcraft 2 around the same period. Does anybody suspect Blizzard involvement in this ?
On September 17 2010 14:20 Ancient.eu wrote: Hmm, 3 very big names, one for each race, switching to Starcraft 2 around the same period. Does anybody suspect Blizzard involvement in this ?
not sure why anyone would think Boxer would go Toss in SC2. SC2 Terran fits his style perfectly, as "gimmicky" units like Ghosts, Reavers, Banshees and Ravens are completely viable in competitive play.
Bisu I would love, but even though he's fallen a bit from his peak, he's still a competitive BW player, not a glorified mascot sitting on the bench like a lot of BW pros who switch. The only way I could see Bisu switching is if he basically decides that he'll never beat Flash, and that it would be better to be a champion in SC2 than a runner up in BW. But I think he's too competitive to accept that.
I don't know why people want Savior to come back so desperately.
I mean, I know he was a god, and Zerg could sure use a Bonjwa to show them the way.
But he was a known cheater. What assurance do you have that he wouldn't return to his old ways?
I'd rather miss out on a brilliant player, but assure the integrity of the game, than have a brilliant player who could potentially tarnish the entire game.
It'd be like if a baseball team wanted to hire Pete Rose as their manager. Sure, he was an all-time great player and a very good manager...but he bet on games. Its just not worth the risk.
On September 17 2010 14:20 Ancient.eu wrote: Hmm, 3 very big names, one for each race, switching to Starcraft 2 around the same period. Does anybody suspect Blizzard involvement in this ?
who's the protoss?
Boxer, of course.
Urm..... has boxer said anything about what race he likes in SC2? i dont think he has since the speculation wouldnt just be 'rumour' then.
While it is bad that these players will no longer be playing the "sport" they became famous from, why does everyone act like they are gone forever? It isnt like you cant continue to watch and support them in their newest endeavor. I look forward to cheering them on. Just watch BW and SC2.
On September 18 2010 01:36 awesomoecalypse wrote:Bisu I would love, but even though he's fallen a bit from his peak, he's still a competitive BW player, not a glorified mascot sitting on the bench like a lot of BW pros who switch. The only way I could see Bisu switching is if he basically decides that he'll never beat Flash, and that it would be better to be a champion in SC2 than a runner up in BW. But I think he's too competitive to accept that.
Bisu isn't anywhere close to unable to compete with the top. Besides, he's important to his very wealthy team, so I think he'll be staying for a while. No one who actually gets plenty of wins is likely to switch.
On September 18 2010 03:05 awesomoecalypse wrote:But he was a known cheater. What assurance do you have that he wouldn't return to his old ways?
He'd never do it again, mostly because everyone would be watching him. Not that it's confirmed that he actually fixed games(he was involved in having others do it though).
On September 17 2010 19:34 KristianJS wrote: Only player C left to be confirmed now....could it really be Boxer?
nal_ra please T__T
...he's still got more than a year and a half in the army.
I think he got public service duty I think since he didn't do so well in the physical test. He's still part of the military, but pretty much has a desk job I believe.
EPT
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