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On September 11 2010 08:26 Murderotica wrote:Show nested quote +On September 11 2010 07:11 Redmark wrote:On September 11 2010 06:15 Murderotica wrote:
But go ahead, keep claiming that SC2 is so "fucking awesome." I'm sure you know better than other people about their opinions. With the attitude you've exhibited in this thread you're not one to talk about other people's opinions. I liked it better when anti-SC2 people just stuck to BW instead of going on crusades. Lol? Do you even understand what I said? I was accusing him of trying to fill in the opinions of others with the sweeping notion that everyone likes the game the same way he does. With the comprehension you've exhibited in this thread you're not one to talk about... Yea. lol. Anyways, was not a SC2 crusade, busting into a thread completely unrelated to BW. Look around you, there are many people who are pissed that progamers are moving to BW. Hence it is relevant. You just target me because I wrote the longest post about it. Crusade is never over.
You accused him of something he never did, then. He saw someone say "SC2 is shit" and posted a positive quote about SC2 from a beloved BW figure. He never said anyone else agreed with July and you can't say he's putting words in July's mouth because those are literally his words. If you had bothered to read any of the thread before you started frothing at the bit to attack someone, you'd probably also have noticed some of his previous posts such as:
On September 10 2010 02:00 awesomoecalypse wrote:Show nested quote +For all the people that don't think these three will eventually dominate SC2 if they make the switch, IdrA was a B teamer on CJ and he's currently one of the best SC2 "pros". Same thing applies to Tester, Cool , etc. This is why I think ultimately more players will start making the switch. Someone like Idra or Tester is gonna win the GSL, and make a whole boatload of money. At that point, BW players who are better than them, but not good enough to be true S-class players who make the big bucks, are gonna start thinking, "wait a second...I'm a whole lot better than Idra, and he just made more in a month than I'll make all year. And he's got an excellent chance to do the exact same thing next month." Of course, the truly top BW players won't have those thoughts. But the mid-level guys? I think more will start taking a serious look at SC2 and the GSL when it really becomes obvious that even b-level BW players are capable of making a lot of money in the GSL.
where he appears to agree with the idea that people who play BW averagely would do extremely well in SC2.
There are examples of people shoving their overwhelmingly pungent opinions in others' faces, however:
On September 08 2010 00:28 Murderotica wrote:Show nested quote +On September 08 2010 00:19 btway wrote:On September 07 2010 13:42 Murderotica wrote:
Alright hold on before I fully commit to this will there be ANYONE playing not SC2? Because let's be real, I don't judge you guys but I'm not gay. Well...do you have anything against being around a bunch of gay people? *holds up pitchfork and torch* Good thing you brought those for me, I need them for my hunt on gaySC2 players.
So calm down and check yourself. Just because this is the BW forum doesn't mean someone who likes SC2 can't be in here. It's possible to like both.
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On September 09 2010 03:25 HaruHaru wrote:This is sad. The real death of BW 
Yeah because these players are totally active in the BW scene at the moment.
edit: And further, I don't know how anyone could be pissed by this. Anyone who is currently actively playing BW (in the singles leagues and being put out regularly by their teams in Proleague) is NOT going to SC2 anytime soon.
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My heart sank.
Boxer and Nada are the two pro's that made my hold on to Terran longer.
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I wonder what race they will choose... Could be interesting to see these 3 revive careers in sc2.
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NaDa /dreams away
I hope this isn't the catalyst for a lot of other BW progamers to transition to sc2. I watched OSL finals today and it reminded me that this might be one of the last big BW events if things are going like it is now. Would love it if both scenes can co-exist.
But if it's Boxer and NaDa then I hope they can bring the same game like they did in BW to sc2.
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This constant rage towards sc2 is saddening =(.
The skill required for both games is extremely high. SC2 focuses on an incredibly finicky and difficult to control AI for combat that requires 300+ apm to correctly control, read: TLO's fights in the GSL. SC:BW requires Insane base management and macro control in order to gain any semblance of an army or map control also with a very bad auto kill system *granted only a real issue for seige tanks but the point still stands.
Both games requires insane amounts of skill to play at the highest level and constant infighting will only serve to hurt the community and ourselves. Condescension from BW players and community only hurts you guys and you wanted e-sports to take off? This attitude is how you want to greet new players wanting to become better players? When we all first joined we were the worst players of all time, clicking our way to victory with not a key bind in sight. Somehow behind the APM, the tricks and splits we have lost track of what these games mean to us.
Fun.
The western world missed the boat on fun with SC1. But with SC2 you might be able to see it happen here, in your own backyard. If you feel that your own latent elitism is necessary then so be it.
But hurting a community that has stood the test of time with vitriolic remarks to the players that have early adopted the game and to the players that already find enjoyment and passion in it is just plain selfish. It's mean and I thought all of us as players of games and broodwar, we'd know that games are more than about a single player but its about the community behind them. Hopefully we all start remembering that and accept and embrace new players instead of raging at them for no good reason. You won't succeed in purging the site of sc2, and you won't succeed in making them all hate sc2, this needless lashing out only hurts feelings and makes people sad.
Cheers friends.
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im not sure to be excited or saddened by this.
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Vatican City State2594 Posts
On September 11 2010 17:28 urashimakt wrote:
blah blah blah
Once again you have the misconception that I said he was putting words in July's mouth. What I am saying is he put words in OUR mouth. SC2 can't be an indisputably better game if there is dispute. Check yourself.
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On September 11 2010 21:53 oo_xerox wrote:
im not sure to be excited or saddened by this.
we get to see old pros playing again, whats there to be saddened about?
On September 11 2010 07:29 overt wrote:Show nested quote +On September 11 2010 07:05 berzerger wrote:+ Show Spoiler +when brood war came out it was easy too. 5base vs 5base was only a dream in 1v1 and people were thinking "I would only go 3rd base if my main drains out."
after a while when players started to discover game deeply, they also discovered new boundries so the game got harder and harder.
brood war is hard today because of players discovered new boundries. pushed themselves harder.
now its sc2. ppl are saying you need less apm this game. I don't aggre. Because when ppl push boundries further, they will find a new use for exceed apm. i.e: fighting 5 different locations with using abilities that are given and succeeding it in 1-2 second. it is just an example just try to get my point.
even gameplay may change, map designs may change.
I believe sc2 will be hard as much as brood war. But not yet. players will improve, gameplay will improve.
it's your very existence who appreciate new tactics and builds you have never seen before right this very day. this will continue I'm sure.
the boundries and capacities will be pushed (very hard) and ppl will see it's not %100 the game makes the game difficult itself, it's the players.
so, in my opinion saying "sc2 is not hard" is not learning and understanding from sc1 experience.
I believe each of us had seen something new while we had been watching NaDa vs TLO in Steppes of War. Ppl were in shock, trying to understand what was happening. (macro-wise they were watching something entirely new) tank placement for domination of middle area and expanding like there is no tomorrow and also keeping the upper hand with a very unfamiliar style of play, that was something new.
That day, nada pushed boundries a little bit too, showed us a different kind of play, and I say, there will be more pushing boundries more and more.
and if you think that what nada did that day was "not hard" I think you are being subjective. We aren't even talking about the way the game is played yet, just simply the mechanics. Go back to playing Brood War for like a week, without all of the new features in SC2. You can't just lump an entire army together, you are forced to use control groups. The unit AI and pathing is horrible by comparison. You can't block off with ease like you can in SC2. Brood War, at any level of play, is just straight up harder and requires more APM. Yeah, players with lower APM can win games in BW or SC2 against players with higher APM, but in BW a player with substantially higher APM will consistently defeat a player with lower APM whereas in SC2 it's not as big of a deal (at least not yet). Some things will definitely change about the game and APM may become more important in the future. However I don't feel like SC2 can ever be considered harder than BW unless the game mechanics themselves are completely changed around which would require Blizzard to essentially "dumb down" the game and make it less casual and less noob friendly. I don't think anyone at all is faulting Blizzard for making SC2 easier, it makes sense because the vast majority of people who buy the game aren't going to even care about pro SC2. I also don't think that fans of SC2 should take, "SC2 is easier than BW," as if it's some kind of insult or saying that SC2 is a simple game. It's still hard, if it wasn't everyone would be a pro gamer. It's just not as hard as Brood War and honestly I don't think anyone was expecting it to be.
Warcraft2.
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I honestly find it funny how people think that more pros will switch over to SC2 because of the bigger prize pool and money you can make by playing in the GSL. Um, realize that only like the top four will ever make money? I'd rather have a stable income than none at all and risking to play a game where any idiot can be good at and win.
Not to mention the majority of these kids (BW players) are in their teens or early twenties. Them making money in the five digit figures alone is HUGE. Oh right, all of their food and living conditions are provided to them on a regular basis without a fee.
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On September 12 2010 01:21 Amnesia wrote:
I honestly find it funny how people think that more pros will switch over to SC2 because of the bigger prize pool and money you can make by playing in the GSL. Um, realize that only like the top four will ever make money? I'd rather have a stable income than none at all and risking to play a game where any idiot can be good at and win.
Not to mention the majority of these kids (BW players) are in their teens or early twenties. Them making money in the five digit figures alone is HUGE. Oh right, all of their food and living conditions are provided to them on a regular basis without a fee.
1. Do you really think all of the BW progamers get stable income? Only tip top players get huge amount of money I think there was a post where top30 ranked progamer was gaining like about 12 times less income than top 1.
2. "risking to play a game where any idiot can be good at and win." That is such an arrogant statement. Go ahead and try to beat Idra. I dare you.
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On September 12 2010 01:21 Amnesia wrote:
I honestly find it funny how people think that more pros will switch over to SC2 because of the bigger prize pool and money you can make by playing in the GSL. Um, realize that only like the top four will ever make money? I'd rather have a stable income than none at all and risking to play a game where any idiot can be good at and win.
Not to mention the majority of these kids (BW players) are in their teens or early twenties. Them making money in the five digit figures alone is HUGE. Oh right, all of their food and living conditions are provided to them on a regular basis without a fee.
ye sc2 is really easy. anyone can win.
do you think before you put text on your monitor?
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On September 12 2010 01:13 Murderotica wrote:Once again you have the misconception that I said he was putting words in July's mouth. What I am saying is he put words in OUR mouth. SC2 can't be an indisputably better game if there is dispute. Check yourself.
Before you wreck yourself!! >_>
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Wow this is COOL news. Just great.
The only weird things are the comments here, strange elitism by a lot of people, I mean July, Nada and Boxer were not good at all anymore recently in BW, so it's no loss, but they are just so experienced players that they will crush into the SC2 scene without a doubt. SC2 strategies aren't near any refinement by now, so older and experienced players will have much more advantages because of general strategic sense, it's not like the korean BW scene nowadays which seems to be mostly 15-19 year old kids 
I don't get why so many people here are upset or sad about it. Just doesn't make sense to me. It's awesome news, for me the best news for some weeks Continue supporting SC:BW to have some more years of awesomeness, but there's no reason why you shouldn't support SC2 too, it's basically the same game with easier gamemechanics but just as much depth.
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On September 12 2010 01:13 Murderotica wrote:Once again you have the misconception that I said he was putting words in July's mouth. What I am saying is he put words in OUR mouth. SC2 can't be an indisputably better game if there is dispute. Check yourself.
I have passion for those with reading comprehension problems, I really do. If the only person he said felt anything about anything was July and it was a direct quote, he put words in no one's mouth. You just want an argument.
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On September 09 2010 03:14 Milkis wrote:Source: http://www.fomos.kr/board/board.php?mode=read&keyno=110445&db=issue&cate=&page=1&field=&kwrd=Shim Hyun plays with us again, giving us "Progamer A,B,C" this time. Progamer A - Wanted to participate for this season of GSL, but was not able to due to his contract with his team. He is looking to participate in the preliminaries of the second season of GSL this upcoming October. He is still practicing hard, and said that if he participated in the preliminaries, he would have been able to make it to the main stages. He updated us on his situation by saying that next season, he is preparing hard so that he could make it the semi finals. Pretty much confirmed to be July. Progamer B - Has already left the team and is living by himself. He announced to hsi team that he is not going to have another contract, and preparing for the switch to SC2. There is a very high chance that he will join the SC2 game team that Progamer A is a part of. Has enjoyed playing since the beta test, and is preparing to participate in the preliminaries. Rumors have it that this is NaDa. Progamer C - Also did not recontract, and is known to be transitioning to SC2. His contract ended at the end of June. After that, he extended his contract a bit due to suggestion of the team and the people around him, but recently he gave up on getting another contract and has decided to move onto SC2. Rumors have it that this is Boxer. For the Silhouette matching... http://gall.dcinside.com/list.php?id=starcraft&no=5706102
July is confirmed.
Nada took a game off TLO at IEM and Nada had no clue what to build in SC2 - his win off of TLO was purely due to insane micro and macro, but his short time playing SC2 showed in his Build Order.
Boxer going to SC2 - wow - would love to see Boxer relevant again.
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On September 10 2010 09:53 Devolved wrote:
I bet Boxer's having a party in his pants right about now. A new game with undeveloped strategies that doesn't require 300 APM to compete in and is easier to multi-task/macro than SC:BW....sounds like Boxer's wet dream. SC2 plays to all of Boxer's strengths and none of his weaknesses. If Boxer goes out for the GSL, he is going to amaze everyone with pjaw-dropping micro plays of strategies nobody's ever dreamed of.
Boxer pretty much invented and perfected every Terran micro strategy imaginable, and only faded from the scene because other players had faster fingers and better mechanics such as multi-tasking and overall macro. Nobody can out-think or out-micro Boxer, and he will prove it once again in SC2.
Boxer winning the GSL would be EPIC. Return of the Emperor Terran!
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On September 12 2010 04:39 StarcraftMan wrote:Show nested quote +On September 10 2010 09:53 Devolved wrote:
I bet Boxer's having a party in his pants right about now. A new game with undeveloped strategies that doesn't require 300 APM to compete in and is easier to multi-task/macro than SC:BW....sounds like Boxer's wet dream. SC2 plays to all of Boxer's strengths and none of his weaknesses. If Boxer goes out for the GSL, he is going to amaze everyone with pjaw-dropping micro plays of strategies nobody's ever dreamed of.
Boxer pretty much invented and perfected every Terran micro strategy imaginable, and only faded from the scene because other players had faster fingers and better mechanics such as multi-tasking and overall macro. Nobody can out-think or out-micro Boxer, and he will prove it once again in SC2. Boxer winning the GSL would be EPIC. Return of the Emperor Terran!
Boxer vs TLO woooo ^_^
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Well, Nada is confirmed. The source for this article seems to have some legs as 2 out of 3 are confirmed.
The last is the Emperor himself - can't wait for Boxer to announce he is moving to SC2.
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I don't really care about NaDa moving, aside from being an icon on the bench (and playing once in a blue moon) his part of BW was over. Boxer would be about the same (as was july). So far the only ones who were switching were washed out progamers and b-teamers. What I am sad about is the other news like estro and MVP/Guemchi. If/when bw dies, I think I'm done with TL
sc2 bores the bejesus out of me (maybe that will change someday, but probably not anytime soon). I know the sc2 fanboys are all giddy every time they hear about the possibility of a BW player retiring, but I'm just not one of them.
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EPT
