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On September 11 2010 07:16 ffreakk wrote:Show nested quote +On September 11 2010 06:58 domovoi wrote:
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Anyway the very best players make something like $200,000 per year. This is pretty low for the absolute best players in a very popular sport. I know many normal people who make more than that...
[...]
Lol is it just me or you are saying that Brood War is a "very popular sport" now? Is it s'posed to be comparable to popular sports like soccer, basketball, really? Flash made 400k last year, and i would very much like to hear about how its low compared to other eSports.
I don't think he's trying to say $400,000 / year is a pittance. You're right it's the largest salary in eSports that I'm aware of but I believe he's debating the true value BW players provide and the fact that their salaries don't reflect that. For example, although Flash is highly compensated the true value he supplies (the ads he sells, the merchandise he moves, the marketing he provides) is not represented in his salary because he lacks leverage.
He's a compulsory member of an organization of which there is no alternative, KeSPA.
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On September 07 2010 14:39 Murderotica wrote:Show nested quote +On September 07 2010 14:27 xBillehx wrote:
From what I understand with this summary, both BW and SC2 would have been able to air freely with permission and cooperation if KeSPA had just accepted the timeslot move (since BW is the older game) and threw in some GSL commercials. Both the BW fans and SC2 fans would have been happy freely able to watch their respective entertainment (and possibly both) without all this drama.
Obviously KeSPA wouldn't be happy taking the backseat and I'm sure the proteams wouldn't be happy with it either, since they've been the source of fantastic Starcraft entertainment for years. However, a new potential esport game came along and if the primary concern was for the growth of esports as a whole, wouldn't embracing that new potential be a goal?
Instead, no one wanted to budge and now we have "boycotting" (Did KeSPA ever intend on touching the Starcraft 2 market anyway?) and angry fans.
Of course, that ideal situation of both leagues operating together is probably never going to happen now, but really- the possibility for it to all work out was there and just passed right over.
Heres to hoping for as little damage to both BW and SC2 professional scenes as possible. Newer does not mean better. It does not mean advancement of E-sports. Get that stigma out of your head.
No newer doesn't always mean better. But in this case, can you give me a logical argument explaining why SCII is not better than BW?
(I'm asking you to compare the two multiplayer games, ignoring all of the non-game stuff that surrounds this issue.)
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Why is Blizzard made out to be the bad guy here?
Kespa are the ones who don't respect Blizzards IP... They could have had exclusive access to SC2, and organise tournaments for it whenever they wanted if only they respected Blizzards IP and payed a licensing fee for BW tourny's straight up.
To turn around now and say they'll do it, to Gretech, is too little too late. They were the ones who screwed up in the first place.
I'm not saying Gretech aren't being idiots here (quite the opposite) but what really are Blizzard supposed to do? They made something special. And a bunch of people decided to make money off that without paying any respect to the people who made it. It's the equivalent of running a movie theater and charging people to watch pirated movies.
Blizzard aren't the bad guys here, they are just protecting their IP. If theres anyone to be pissed at it's Kespa (for their lack of respect earlier) and Gretech for their stubbornness now.
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On September 10 2010 17:50 maybenexttime wrote:
Woah! Hold on! So you're KeSPA treats their employees like dirt. I'm assuming you mean players. Well, you see, KeSPA is the reason why non-top5 progamers do not live a miserable life like they used to several years ago.
On September 10 2010 20:07 maybenexttime wrote:
"The system works, but it is exploitive, unethical, and run by incompetent, blundering dunderheads."
Then how are you going to call the system Blizzard/Gretech are setting up, which basically turns progaming into treasure hunting it used to be nearly a decade ago? ;/
KeSPA might do many things better, but Blizzard/Gretech do them much worse. KeSPA invests tons of money so that progamers may have a steady pay and quite good living conditions. They know what they're getting into when they sign up for a team.
In the end, 1v1 Starcraft is not a team sport. If you look at most non-team sports, you'll find that the players do not receive a salary. There is prize money and sponsorships.
Look at tennis: If players earn enough, they keep traveling to tournaments on the ATP tour. If not, they supplement their income by coaching, or do something else. The same goes for most non-team olympic sports.
Poker, Billiards etc: All the income is from tournaments with prize money.
Boxing, chess etc: Matches are set up with a competitor (or his promoter) negotiating a fee for participating in a match (possibly with a bonus for winning). There are also tournaments with prize money.
Does the quality of these sports suffer because there is no fixed salary for lower tier competitors?
I don't think so. Some people play these sports for fun. Those who invest the time to try and become professionals take a chance. If they are good, they keep at it. If not, they use the skills they acquired to do something related to the sport, or do something else entirely. Why should BW/SCII be any different?
It comes down to whether you want progaming to be primarily a sport or a form of entertainment. In the former case, the focus is entirely on the best player winning. This is encouraged by having open tournaments, sponsorships and no salaries. In the second case, the goal is to put on a good show. (Think Rollerderby in the 1970's, with costumes, stage names and all that jazz.) This is encouraged by having a fixed stable of competitors who receive a salary.
P.S.: Cycling is an exception to this (members of teams receive salaries), but I would argue that it is a team sport: There are one or two top racers on each team. The rest train to get better, but part of their job is setting the time for the top racers etc.
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On September 11 2010 12:36 skipgamer wrote:
Why is Blizzard made out to be the bad guy here?
Kespa are the ones who don't respect Blizzards IP... They could have had exclusive access to SC2, and organise tournaments for it whenever they wanted if only they respected Blizzards IP and payed a licensing fee for BW tourny's straight up.
To turn around now and say they'll do it, to Gretech, is too little too late. They were the ones who screwed up in the first place.
I'm not saying Gretech aren't being idiots here (quite the opposite) but what really are Blizzard supposed to do? They made something special. And a bunch of people decided to make money off that without paying any respect to the people who made it. It's the equivalent of running a movie theater and charging people to watch pirated movies.
Blizzard aren't the bad guys here, they are just protecting their IP. If theres anyone to be pissed at it's Kespa (for their lack of respect earlier) and Gretech for their stubbornness now.
All of your concerns have already been addressed in this thread. Blizzard gave KeSPA a deal they knew KeSPA wouldn't accept and it was obvious that Blizzard didn't want to sell the IP rights to KeSPA because they want to see pro BW die.
Please read the thread, this isn't about them protecting their IP it's about money. There's money to be gained on both sides, sure, but the pro teams are seeking to continue making money so that they aren't all out of a job in a few months. Blizz/Gretech are just trying to line their pockets.
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On September 10 2010 23:33 palexhur wrote:Show nested quote +On September 10 2010 23:00 petelectro wrote:On September 10 2010 22:16 hydraden wrote:On September 10 2010 20:58 petelectro wrote:
That's it and everyone who's trying to defend kespa OR gom/gretech/blizzard in this, should always remember that it is just about money. Kespa showed us more than once that they care about money and their monopol more than about anything else (and yeah I know that they did a lot for the players but we can't demand gom/blizzard to do the same thing from scratch) and I just don't see how people are defending them just because they stand behind BW and don't want the game to vanish (which won't happen anyway, even without kespa, the community wouldn't die and there will be some other organisation to pick it up).
Sure you can argue that blizzard is greedy as well but hell, they made the damn game and I can see that now that SC2 is out they want they're new game to take the place of BW. Why wouldn't they?
I don't think that the BW community will grow any larger from this point out (just be realistic, seriously) but the SC2 community will for sure plus it will spread a lot more in western countries than BW ever could. Sure, it is about money, everybody knows this. Every professional team is about money. Players from Yankees and Red Sox are all for money. Roger Federer and Rafael Nadal are playing for the money. So you do not cheer for any of them? You have to choose side as a fan, if you try to be neutral, then you are not a fan. In this case, you obviously chose Blizzard/Gretech side because you have very little emotional attachment to BW proscene. I have very little emotional attachment to companies that make stupid (yeah, that's the word) decisions because they are not capable of thinking ahead and thus screw over their costumers and fans. They owned the market for that long that they developed this arrogant posture thinking they deserve to do whatever they want. Did they really think Blizzard would just sit and wait for SC2 to take off as an e-sport in korea by itself? Blizzard isn't the small developer it was back in 1998 and it sure as hell isn't giving up the money that their games are producing beyond the actual sales. If you seriously think that BW can compete with SC2 forever than you´re just being blinded by your memories and feelings for BW with its decade of awesomeness and I fully understand that BUT saying SC2 has no chance to be as huge as BW or even bigger is just plain arrogant. This whole debate reminds me a lot of magic the gathering after the first major rules change and then again after the new card design was revealed. All the people saying that the game will drop in sales and lose all it's players were wrong because they were just blindly holding on to the past even if it was completely irrational. (sorry for the spelling/english, I'm a bit rusty) I dont know how Kespa screw over their customers and fans, right now as a fan I can watch and enjoy pro gaming for free in an stable enviroment
Right now you are, still kespa is risking a law suit that could end that completely (which is part of the topic of this thread btw).
The most funny thing about your statement is your claim "If you seriously think that BW can compete with SC2 forever than you´re just being blinded ", lol, not even Blizzard and Gretech are sure about SC2 being an e-sport, if they would, they just could grow SC2 in Korea in a fast way without touching BW, so if BW cant compete against SC2 why is the fear expressed by some demands to Kespa?, let me know please.
Because SC2 has a, believe it or not, realistic chance to take off as an esport in the west, which BW has not.
Sure they want to start growing the game in Korea first although opening it up for the whole world, which is something that kespa neglected for years - and I don't mean foreign players, I mean opening up their own market by trying to really share the fascination of BW with the rest of the world - because the country is the freaking mekka for esports (yes, thanks to BW).
And yeah I know kespa is a "non-profit organisation" but you know exactly that they make decisions that end in money being made.
Blizzard can make whatever they want with SC2 and, we, BW fans dont care, in fact they are doing that, asocciating with a small company (Gretech) and impossing a tournament format where they have total control.
First off: I am a BW fan too. I love SC2 as well but I know that BW is the reason for that. I'm looking forward to see SC2 develop in the next years just like I loved to watch BW change over and over again. I'm not siding with blizzard in this because I want BW to die and all pro teams to vanish, I'm siding with them because without them there would be no kespa, no proleague.. heck not even this wonderful community.
Putting SC2 on air before BW would have showed at least some respect and support for blizzard from kespa (but I'm pretty much the only one in here who thinks they (gretech/blizz) really wanted to have both leagues coexist...).
The fate of SC2 is not marked for BW but for itself, dont forget that if SC2 continues to be the boring game to watch that it is now, it wont suceed even if it is the only pc game in the planet.
Did you actually remember how starcraft was after it was released? I hate it so much that BW players, people who saw a game develop over a whole damn decade, say something like that. Do you remember how long it took to make SC really exciting to watch? With that in mind I think SC2 is doing awesome right now.
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SC2 doesn't have potential in the west. The MLG is as far as you're gonna see SC2 go, it may get like actual televised matches for one single day just like Halo 2 did forever ago but please don't kid yourself into thinking SC2 is just going to take off in the west.
It'll grow into a sizeable eSport in South Korea and it could live right beside Brood War if it wasn't for Blizzard/Gretech. That's the bottom line. People also need to stop acting like Brood War and KeSPA are going to die and it's about to be the last ProLeague, the court case hasn't even begun yet, the lawsuit hasn't even been filed. No one, not even the parties involved, knows how the courts are going to rule on this issue. There's just as good of a chance that KeSPA will come out victorious if this goes to court as Blizz/Gretech. So, just calm down and have faith that Brood War will continue and that SC2 will flourish without having to kill BW off.
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On September 11 2010 13:27 overt wrote: Blizzard gave KeSPA a deal they knew KeSPA wouldn't accept and it was obvious that Blizzard didn't want to sell the IP rights to KeSPA because they want to see pro BW die.
I read through most of the thread and I haven't seen that anywhere, at least nothing non-speculative.
I understand that most of the forum comes to this issue from being a long-time fan of the professional bw scene, and they don't want to see it die. But it has little to do with Blizzard itself, for people to say (as I've seen numeous times in this thread) that Blizzard wants to kill pro-leage/broodwar is pretty biased.
Sure Gretech probably have their motivations, but as I understand it, Gretech are Blizzards representatives on this matter because they were unable to reach a deal with Kespa (correct me if im wrong.)
To say that Blizzard itself (not gretech, blizzard) wants to see broodwar and the proleague die has no basis in fact at all, wouldn't one think that if that were their goal, the would be more aggressive?
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On September 11 2010 16:23 skipgamer wrote:Show nested quote +On September 11 2010 13:27 overt wrote: Blizzard gave KeSPA a deal they knew KeSPA wouldn't accept and it was obvious that Blizzard didn't want to sell the IP rights to KeSPA because they want to see pro BW die. I read through most of the thread and I haven't seen that anywhere, at least nothing non-speculative. I understand that most of the forum comes to this issue from being a long-time fan of the professional bw scene, and they don't want to see it die. But it has little to do with Blizzard itself, for people to say (as I've seen numeous times in this thread) that Blizzard wants to kill pro-leage/broodwar is pretty biased. Sure Gretech probably have their motivations, but as I understand it, Gretech are Blizzards representatives on this matter because they were unable to reach a deal with Kespa (correct me if im wrong.) To say that Blizzard itself (not gretech, blizzard) wants to see broodwar and the proleague die has no basis in fact at all, wouldn't one think that if that were their goal, the would be more aggressive?
Gretech (Blizzard's representatives as you put it) did say something along the lines of "so be it" when kespa stated that agreeing with their terms would lead to the death of BW.
Gretech are Blizzard's representatives because their goals are aligned. Blizzard did not want to give kespa any reasonable contract. And you don't think that threatening kespa with a lawsuit to tear down the foundations of the BW scene (Proleague and MSL) is aggressive?
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On September 11 2010 16:38 _awake_ wrote:
Blizzard did not want to give kespa any reasonable contract.
Last time I'm replying... Because I see this over and over again as an argument to why Blizzard are the bad guys in this scenario, with absolutely no proof. (im talking about Blizzard, btw not Gretech, I can't stress this enough... I understand that Gretech's most recent negotiations had hefty demands regarding time-slots... What I'm talking about is back when Blizzard were negotiating with Kespa directly.)
I really would love for someone to prove this to me so that I may better understand the situation... The way I see it, Kespa said blizzard provided unreasonable terms, and Blizzard said they were nogatiating for years and Kespa never acknowledged Blizzard's rights to it's IP.
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On September 11 2010 16:41 skipgamer wrote:Show nested quote +On September 11 2010 16:38 _awake_ wrote:
Blizzard did not want to give kespa any reasonable contract. Last time I'm replying... Because I see this over and over again as an argument to why Blizzard are the bad guys in this scenario, with absolutely no proof. (im talking about Blizzard, btw not Gretech, I can't stress this enough... I understand that Gretech's most recent negotiations had hefty demands regarding time-slots... What I'm talking about is back when Blizzard were negotiating with Kespa directly.) I really would love for someone to prove this to me so that I may better understand the situation... The way I see it, Kespa said blizzard provided unreasonable terms, and Blizzard said they were nogatiating for years and Kespa never acknowledged Blizzard's rights to it's IP.
Not my fault you aren't reading, the page just before this one already addressed this issue.
+ Show Spoiler +No, they did not.
The terms Blizzard gave to KeSPA were specifically designed so that KeSPA will never accept them:
1. Set the contract term for using its games to 1 year
2. Prior approvals about all league operations such as contracting sponsorship, marketing materials, broadcasting plan
3. License fee for running of league and all license fee of sponsorship inducement
4. Ownership of all broadcasted programs, program videos
5. Right to audit KeSPA
6. Additional contracts of the progamers with Blizzard that override the contracts between the progamers and their teams.
How many of them apply to Gretech? Practically none.
1. Gretech got a 3 year contract easily, while Blizzard demanded KeSPA to accept a 1-year contract (which is ridiculous; KeSPA was supposed to invest into SC2 just so that Activision-Blizzard could raise the fees tenfold for the next year?).
2. Gretech had some leagues that wouldn't be even possible without Blizzard's support. Their sponsors were crappy compared to those attracted by KeSPA, and unlike KeSPA, they did not enjoy complete freedom for the last several years. Not to mention Gretech is some small company compared to OGN/MBC?other KeSPA corporations, and it does not have the government's approval to be THE governing body for eSports in Korea.
3. Gretech did not disclose how that part of the contract work in their case. I'm assuming the fees are smaller simply because PL/MSL/OSL are MUCH bigger/more popular events.
4. Gretechs owns just couple crappy shows nobody even watches, they're not a TV station. On the other hand, OGN/MBC have produced dozens of quality shows they invested tons of money into. Blizzard wanted the ownership of pretty much all the content produced by OGN/MBC. Gretech had hardly anything to lose here, they produce barely any content to start with.
5. KeSPA consists of some of the biggest corporations in Korea and has tied with the government. MBC/OGN produce not only BW content but also for many other games. To demand the right to audit KeSPA is ridiculous of Blizzard. On the other hand, Gretech is just a small company.
6. Again, Gretech had nothing to lose here. They do not own any proteams. KeSPA, on the other hand, forks probably hundreds of millions of dollars a year (total) to sustain its teams.
There are plenty of threads for people to read up on if they wish but the demands given to KeSPA were most certainly unreasonable and it's more than just a coincidence that Gretech was given much looser terms than KeSPA.
This thread is a pretty good read as well. KeSPA is not 100% awesome in this, but surely as a gamer and someone who really does enjoy watching Brood War can see that Activision/Blizzard aren't interested in spreading eSports. They're interested in spreading SC2 in South Korea so that they can cash in. KeSPA, despite their many flaws, is actually invested in eSports and not video game sales.
And this may be the last thing I say about this, but, KeSPA has said numerous times that they're okay with paying for royalties. That should be enough for Blizzard if all they're really after is protecting their IP rights. As KeSPA has said, why they would even want royalties after KeSPA, progamers, and the fans of eSports have already made them tons of money off sales of Brood War doesn't make a lot of sense but KeSPA recognizes that royalties can be collected by Blizzard and they were okay with paying royalties. Why wasn't this enough for Blizzard/Activision?
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This.
On September 10 2010 19:28 maybenexttime wrote:
1. Set the contract term for using its games to 1 year
2. Prior approvals about all league operations such as contracting sponsorship, marketing materials, broadcasting plan
3. License fee for running of league and all license fee of sponsorship inducement
4. Ownership of all broadcasted programs, program videos
5. Right to audit KeSPA
6. Additional contracts of the progamers with Blizzard that override the contracts between the progamers and their teams.
They even broke the NDA to let us know about it.
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United States335 Posts
On September 11 2010 06:58 domovoi wrote:Show nested quote +"Government-approved cartel" is rhetoric and it's just as bad as picking one side because it's the lesser of two evils. It's not rhetoric. It's simply to illustrate that antitrust laws are unlikely to apply. MLB is a government-approved cartel as well, but at least there's the fairly powerful MLBPA to represent player interests (unfortunately one of the bigger issues is that they don't adequately represent the interests of young/future players, who are paid extremely low wages for the value they provide to the team, but that's a different discussion.) Show nested quote +The best Pro Brood War players are being paid a very good salary, probably better than any salary I'll ever make. The mediocre players can get bad pay too but it's still better than any other professional gamer at that level. A mere $20,000 per game is an absolutely hilarious statement. For all we know the people involved in match fixing threw more than one game, sure most of them say they only threw a single game but these are people who got involved in illegal betting so I don't know how much credence I'd give to what they claim now. $20,000 for throwing a game is a good sum of money and it's likely that at least some of these players threw more than one game. I meant $20,000 in total, not per game. Apparently it was something like $5,000 per game, which, for something illegal and likely to end one's career, is a pittance. Anyway the very best players make something like $200,000 per year. This is pretty low for the absolute best players in a very popular sport. I know many normal people who make more than that... Show nested quote +It's funny that people bring up the "horrible living conditions" from time to time. Most of the players on these teams practice more than what they're required to by the team. So they're already spending more time than they have to in front of a computer and practicing by choice. Their beds look just fine, sure they have roommates but so do all professional athletes (it just so happens that your room is a different hotel each week). And they're fed too, the food is paid for by the team. Sorry but, unless you have documented examples of coaches like beating their players or players having to sleep on concrete in their own feces I can't buy that "pathetic living conditions" bullshit. Being forced to live in what is basically a glorified dormitory is pretty pathetic for the very best players in the world. I mean, I'm just an average guy on the internet and I probably make more than the vast majority of BW progamers, work less hours and own my own place. These people are prodigies at this game, yet they live worse than the average upper-middle class American! Show nested quote +Now, you mentioned salaries and I'm glad because I would agree with you. I think it'd be nice if Brood War could have an actual Player's Union of some sort similar to the NFL. With minimum salaries and something that gives players an avenue to actually address concerns. But let's be realistic, eSports is new and Brood War is still the king of it. It's the only system that works and is sustainable in eSports history. It's going to take some time for salaries to be fair for all players and it's going to take some time for players to really be able to speak out on issues that effect them. This isn't necessarily KeSPA's fault either, it's what happens to any new sport. It'll take some time for the players to really have rights like athletes in other sports have but to simply blame KeSPA for a lack of player's rights is not only irresponsible but incredibly unfair. I don't "fault" KeSPA for doing what's in their economic interests. But I won't root for them over Gretech when Gretech is the only semblance of competition that will give progamers some leverage.
GDP per capita in the United States is 46,000 USD. For South Korea it's 28,100 USD. $200,000 isn't doing too badly. Congratulations on having rich friends I guess because I'd say the upper limit of middle class in the States is like ~$120,000, but I frankly don't see the relevance unless you're thinking of NBA or NFL stars. You can't compare salaries for progamers with salaries for athletes in major sports such as baseball or American football or whatever. BW is not a major sport; I'm not sure how popular you think it is, but it's fairly niche even in Korea. Is the average player still underpaid? Probably. Does the match-fixing scandal reflect poorly on the compensation for progamers and the lack of support they have transitioning out of eSports? In my opinion, most definitely. Do you really think Gretech/Blizzard are going to provide better alternatives? They've already made clear that they have no intention of doing so. I'm also not sure how you can possibly suggest that Gretech will provide competition that will give progamers some leverage. The whole reason people are objecting to Blizzard/Gretech's demands is that they are trying to make sure that there is no competition from professional BW leagues. Not to mention that unless I'm severely misinformed, progamers aren't payed by KeSPA, but by the companies that sponsor their teams. If they required sponsors to pay higher salaries to their players, sponsors would likely end up pulling out and the scene would collapse.
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SKT, KT, STX, Woongjin, and "Many others" are forming an "Anti Blizzard" Line. Players under those companies are not allowed to partake in SC2 events. They block OGN from broadcasting the GSL through the board of directors.
fuckin' brilliant. another attempt to squash the only league going on in korea with english commentary on-site.
can't these spastics drop the wall of china and find some way of doing like a time-share: 3 days of games each, 1 day off for the progamers to go out/have a fap/prepare.
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On September 12 2010 04:56 k!llua wrote:Show nested quote +SKT, KT, STX, Woongjin, and "Many others" are forming an "Anti Blizzard" Line. Players under those companies are not allowed to partake in SC2 events. They block OGN from broadcasting the GSL through the board of directors. fuckin' brilliant. another attempt to squash the only league going on in korea with english commentary on-site. can't these spastics drop the wall of china and find some way of doing like a time-share: 3 days of games each, 1 day off for the progamers to go out/have a fap/prepare.
do you have any experience following bw? do you have any idea how many games are played per week during the season? during the proleague, we have 6 matches a week, over 3 time slots. each of these matches can be up to 5 games, each game could be as long as half an hour, and then add in commercials. Now the MSL has at most one round playing each week, but they're long as fuck. same with OSL. how the hell do you fit that into 3 days. or even 4.
sc2, in the meantime, has gsl.
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you don't have to use the exact same format.
i know that might not be ideal, but surely it's a shitload better than gretech killing off pro bw or gom dying in the ass from a lack of support from progamers kept under lock and key by kespa.
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On September 07 2010 14:27 xBillehx wrote:
From what I understand with this summary, both BW and SC2 would have been able to air freely with permission and cooperation if KeSPA had just accepted the timeslot move (since BW is the older game) and threw in some GSL commercials. Both the BW fans and SC2 fans would have been happy freely able to watch their respective entertainment (and possibly both) without all this drama.
Obviously KeSPA wouldn't be happy taking the backseat and I'm sure the proteams wouldn't be happy with it either, since they've been the source of fantastic Starcraft entertainment for years. However, a new potential esport game came along and if the primary concern was for the growth of esports as a whole, wouldn't embracing that new potential be a goal?
Instead, no one wanted to budge and now we have "boycotting" (Did KeSPA ever intend on touching the Starcraft 2 market anyway?) and angry fans.
Of course, that ideal situation of both leagues operating together is probably never going to happen now, but really- the possibility for it to all work out was there and just passed right over.
Heres to hoping for as little damage to both BW and SC2 professional scenes as possible.
Don't give me your bullshit, you probe. BW is the better game, more popular, I hate sc2, Blizzard, Gom, and their shit. So sometimes negotiations suck. Blizzard is just acting generous. Why, cuz their greedy idiots want money. $$$$$$$ is all they care about really.
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On September 07 2010 14:39 stormtemplar wrote:
Never thought I'd say this, but GO KESPA! I think they have a fair shot at winning, especially since so many companies have money in broodwar, and also, more likely than not have some influence on the Korean government and more public support.
thats right! fans> game>money.
No fans, no money, no enthusiasm or support. GO BW!!!!
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On September 11 2010 12:36 skipgamer wrote:
Why is Blizzard made out to be the bad guy here?
Kespa are the ones who don't respect Blizzards IP... They could have had exclusive access to SC2, and organise tournaments for it whenever they wanted if only they respected Blizzards IP and payed a licensing fee for BW tourny's straight up.
To turn around now and say they'll do it, to Gretech, is too little too late. They were the ones who screwed up in the first place.
I'm not saying Gretech aren't being idiots here (quite the opposite) but what really are Blizzard supposed to do? They made something special. And a bunch of people decided to make money off that without paying any respect to the people who made it. It's the equivalent of running a movie theater and charging people to watch pirated movies.
Blizzard aren't the bad guys here, they are just protecting their IP. If theres anyone to be pissed at it's Kespa (for their lack of respect earlier) and Gretech for their stubbornness now.
see my comment at the other probe.
Well, Kespa did respect Ip rights, But blizzard was being an asshole, so yeah........ Fuck blizzard still
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I'm being too rude, I understand that.
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EPT
