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[Spoilers] Effort's game today - Page 4

Forum Index > BW General
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Ryshi
Profile Blog Joined June 2004
Canada361 Posts
July 19 2010 19:31 GMT
#61
Here's an attempt at analyzing what happened:

Fantasy:
He built his rax rather than the traditional wall for 2 main reasons
1) Easier to rally units out, considering his build with mech. I'm pretty sure a lot of gamers sometimes hate playing with small gaps, but of course you can argue he might as well just destroy a depot later.
2) You cannot send marines in otherwise if you build them with the barracks at bottom.

I really don't think Fantasy knew about the extractor trick attack, so he probably didn't build it that way to prevent it. He pulled scvs to cover the spot is a natural reaction, which is fine.

Him taking gas is probably either
1) prevent gas steal
2) he needed gas
3) a bait for the lings to come in which he can defend easily
But usually #3 is a strategy planned before game, and considering this surprise gas attack from effort, #3 is unlikely.

Effort probably only practiced with a regular walling... or perhaps he did it on impulse. If he had practiced vs this walling I doubt he would fail like this.
The World God Only Knows
Freezard
Profile Blog Joined April 2007
Sweden1032 Posts
July 20 2010 01:44 GMT
#62
lol really? effort only built the gas to make it harder for fantasy to place the SCV:s at the gap/repair the depot... you can see that effort immediately attacks the depot with like 8 lings. SCV:s movement fucks up when you click to attack an extractor, while clicking on pure gas moves them there immediately. Just clicking at depot to repair doesn't move them to it cleanly.

That's my theory, your theory doesn't make much sense tbh, he's a top progamer for God's sake.
Kare
Profile Joined March 2009
Norway786 Posts
July 20 2010 01:52 GMT
#63
S many awesome tricks in Brood War!
In life you can obtain all sorts of material wealth, but the real treasure is the epic feelings you get while doing something you love.
Neo_ly1983
Profile Joined May 2010
United States8 Posts
July 20 2010 03:33 GMT
#64
Thank you so much for the translation, Carefree~

I change the link of the picture to make it less controversial.

Also, as you may already noticed, the specific theory on the building block is here:

http://bbs.wfbrood.com/thread-14612-1-1.html

And I wrote some simple c++ code to get all possible combinations to achieve some certain kinds of block in the attachment of that post~

noob4ever
Profile Joined April 2005
Denmark59 Posts
July 20 2010 04:03 GMT
#65
This might be a good time to point out that there is an error on the zerg picture. Zerg Evolution Chamber has the values 0 4 15 11 , and not 0 4 15 3, as the picture shows. I can verify that evo chamber definitely dosent have size 3 at bottom, as I once made a simcity that failed because of that.
Neo_ly1983
Profile Joined May 2010
United States8 Posts
July 20 2010 05:27 GMT
#66
On July 20 2010 13:03 noob4ever wrote:
This might be a good time to point out that there is an error on the zerg picture. Zerg Evolution Chamber has the values 0 4 15 11 , and not 0 4 15 3, as the picture shows. I can verify that evo chamber definitely dosent have size 3 at bottom, as I once made a simcity that failed because of that.


Thanks man! That makes it perfect~~
tree.hugger
Profile Blog Joined May 2009
Philadelphia, PA10406 Posts
July 20 2010 05:49 GMT
#67
This has actually become a really interesting discussion.

Several thoughts:
- This was clearly an improvised strategy from EffOrt. He thought fantasy could be beaten in a specific way, and he tried it. To be honest, I don't think that this set EffOrt back a great deal, but it put him behind, that's for sure. It was hardly an all-in, however.
- EffOrt's intention was not to gas steal, as he didn't have a good read on fantasy's build, and had no real reason to know that fantasy needed gas desperately and thus wanted to delay it. Furthermore, the presence of the massed lings pretty much proves that EffOrt's intention wasn't to steal the gas.
- However, the timing of EffOrt's attack seems almost to be perfectly matched to the timing that fantasy intended to take the gas. I think right after his medic popped, he felt he could be comfortable taking his gas. Similarly, he felt comfortable taking the gas, because he had some reason to believe that the zergling threat was over. But I think he knew that the refinery being placed there would create another hole in the wall. So did EffOrt. He makes beeline for it, the moment fantasy drops the refinery, and he sees it while attacking.
- I think both players were confused about the nuance between the refinery and the extractor. EffOrt intended to kill fantasy with it, and fantasy immediately responded by pulling four scvs to block that area of his wall. While they are both progamers, as locodoco points out, this map hasn't been used for months, and the exact building sizes in that specific situation is not something you would necessarily expect everyone to know.
- EffOrt's refinery steal had an odd consequence though, as Frezard notes, that it seems to have decreased the area in which fantasy's scv's could repair that supply depot. EffOrt very nearly breaks down that depot before a second scv is able to maneuver into a repairing position. Was that his intention? I doubt it, because he didn't seem to instruct all the zerglings to attack the depot initially. He may have broken through if he had. It looks to me like he simply instructed the lings to attack move past the wall, and they couldn't, so he reacted in the moment and tried to kill the depot.

All-in-all, this has been very fascinating to read. BW never ceases to be fun to analyze.
ModeratorEffOrt, Snow, GuMiho, and Team Liquid
hauton
Profile Joined March 2009
Hong Kong743 Posts
July 20 2010 05:58 GMT
#68
Question, why do they call EffOrt "Fire Star"?
keep it up, youll either be famous or homeless one day
Neo_ly1983
Profile Joined May 2010
United States8 Posts
July 20 2010 07:00 GMT
#69
On July 20 2010 14:58 hauton wrote:
Question, why do they call EffOrt "Fire Star"?


Because his face looks so strange that people just make jokes on it: He must come from Mars..
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