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Active: 28426 users

What would a protoss favored map look like?

Forum Index > BW General
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ccou
Profile Joined December 2008
United States681 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-07-04 04:57:22
July 04 2010 04:50 GMT
#1
First, I'd like to clarify that the map has to be favoring protoss in both PvT and PvZ.

I know this topic has been discussed before, but the threads I've searched through are inconclusive and/or old. Most give examples of a good PvT map or a PvZ map, but never a map where protoss is favored in both match ups.

I also seem to remember there was a TLPD-style way of viewing map favoritism between the match ups. I have only seen it once and haven't been able to locate it again.

EDIT: basically, what would make "protoss" Battle Royale... so imbalanced for P that no proteam would send any Ts or Zs on it.
Wake up Mr. B!
Darkren
Profile Blog Joined February 2010
Canada1841 Posts
July 04 2010 04:52 GMT
#2
The more manly it is the better it is for protoss
"Yeah, I send (hopefully) helpful PM's quite frequently. You don't have to warn/ban everything" - KadaverBB
YoonHo
Profile Blog Joined October 2008
Canada1043 Posts
July 04 2010 04:55 GMT
#3
I would say very open maps :O.
IUFam Golf Wang~ NrGsteve
Mortician
Profile Blog Joined December 2008
Bulgaria2332 Posts
July 04 2010 04:57 GMT
#4
I think it is really hard to make a map that favores heavily protoss since P is not that straight forward.

Very open maps are zergs heaven, since reavers won't do as much dmg and surrounds are pretty easy, tho tight maps favor T a lot
"If anything, the skill cap in sc2 is higher [than sc1] because there are a lot more things you can do at one given time. " darmousseh
Sentenal
Profile Blog Joined December 2007
United States12398 Posts
July 04 2010 05:17 GMT
#5
Depends, stuff that makes it good vs Terran, is different than what makes it good vs Zerg.

Katrina and Neo Requiem come to mind when I think of maps that are very P>>>T. Maps that are P>>>Z are harder to think of. Loki, maybe?
"Apparently, Sentenal is a paragon of friendship and tolerance. " - Ech0ne
onewingedmoogle
Profile Joined June 2009
Canada434 Posts
July 04 2010 05:20 GMT
#6
a map with 12 neutral battlecruisers in each main for a protoss to mind control :D
ForTenPoints
Profile Joined February 2009
United States140 Posts
July 04 2010 05:24 GMT
#7
I can't find the map balance thing either...the ones with the little bars that show balance....but at first glance,

Troy seems to be such a map...
58.1% PvT and 55.6% PvZ


Another obvious such map is fastest map possible on battle.net....
O-ops
Profile Joined February 2009
United States4236 Posts
July 04 2010 05:25 GMT
#8
On July 04 2010 13:52 Darkren wrote:
The more manly it is the better it is for protoss


So if it is shaped like a penis....
Fan of the Jangbanger
MaRiNe23
Profile Blog Joined December 2006
United States747 Posts
July 04 2010 05:26 GMT
#9
Stuff that makes maps very P>>>T are maps where there is no cliff at the natural for terran to drop tanks(tau cross and lost temple)or places where tanks can fire from behind the nat(destination) and where the third base is very hard to defend like on python and doesn't have a gas. And of course like that guy mentioned it has to be very open in the center.
We have competitive ladder, strong community, progaming in Korea going strong, perfectly balanced game..why do we need sc2? #1 ANTI-SC2 fan
jgju
Profile Blog Joined January 2010
United States454 Posts
July 04 2010 05:29 GMT
#10
Relatively flat, open, and unbuildable centers are good for protoss vs terran (think neo medusa) - allows for good flanking of the terran army.

Against zerg it isn't as clear what factors would favor toss, because both zerg and toss require a lot of gas in that mu (so it isn't like Z vs bio terran where low gas maps favor one race or the other).
"For you biting zealots, here's a quote" - Lauryn Hill
Mortician
Profile Blog Joined December 2008
Bulgaria2332 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-07-04 05:47:12
July 04 2010 05:46 GMT
#11
On July 04 2010 14:29 jgju wrote:
Relatively flat, open, and unbuildable centers are good for protoss vs terran (think neo medusa) - allows for good flanking of the terran army.

Against zerg it isn't as clear what factors would favor toss, because both zerg and toss require a lot of gas in that mu (so it isn't like Z vs bio terran where low gas maps favor one race or the other).


to make a P>>>Z map, put 3 easy gas (like Loki or God's Garden) and make the other expos impossible to defend early on as Z (like Loki)
"If anything, the skill cap in sc2 is higher [than sc1] because there are a lot more things you can do at one given time. " darmousseh
Duckvillelol
Profile Blog Joined July 2009
Australia1240 Posts
July 04 2010 05:50 GMT
#12
For PvT at least - it would look something like this.
Former SC2 commentator. youtube.com/duckvillelol
nitdkim
Profile Blog Joined March 2010
1264 Posts
July 04 2010 05:55 GMT
#13
map with gas on the main base only with 12 mineral patch in main and natural.
PM me if you want random korean images translated.
ejac
Profile Blog Joined January 2009
United States1195 Posts
July 04 2010 05:56 GMT
#14
I don't claim to be an expert on map balance, but I would imagine the problem with making protoss favored in both match ups would be difficult because of how different pvz and pvt are in terms of expanding. In pvt, protoss mass expand while in pvz they stay relatively conservative.

In both of the terran matchups, the terran stays relatively conservative on bases and in both the zerg match ups, they mass expand.
esq>n
hacpee
Profile Joined November 2007
United States752 Posts
July 04 2010 05:58 GMT
#15
A map with no gas.
andeh
Profile Blog Joined August 2009
United States904 Posts
July 04 2010 06:04 GMT
#16
outsider, though maybe not for pvz
maybe since they could 2gate

but p>t on outsider because of recall/reavers
Lightwip
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
United States5497 Posts
July 04 2010 06:05 GMT
#17
On July 04 2010 14:58 hacpee wrote:
A map with no gas.

Rofl... you're right though.
If you are not Bisu, chances are I hate you.
Spyfire242
Profile Joined March 2009
United States715 Posts
July 04 2010 06:09 GMT
#18
On July 04 2010 15:05 Lightwip wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 04 2010 14:58 hacpee wrote:
A map with no gas.

Rofl... you're right though.



I think terran would be almost 100% win on a map with no gas...
Entusman #55 Spyfire242!
TTSA_SBR
Profile Joined March 2010
Australia64 Posts
July 04 2010 06:17 GMT
#19
oh this is easy, make the bases like 5 seconds apart, probe rush ftw.
rape me once, shame on you... rape me twice and ill poo on your dick.
Killphil
Profile Joined October 2009
United States13 Posts
July 04 2010 06:20 GMT
#20
A good map for toss for both PvT AND PvZ? Thats a tall order. A good PvT map would have no ramp and a good proxy spot near their base(perhaps through a cliff?). A good PvZ map....it would need to have choke points to funnel zerg forces. I got it! Take Heartbreak Ridge and give it two or three points of entry through the cliffs instead of just that one. Hard for terran to wall and it forces zerg units to clump up going in or out. I must admit to you guys that I am not a protoss player and favor terran. But an ideal toss map is hard to think up....
Protoss all-ins :D
Lightwip
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
United States5497 Posts
July 04 2010 06:23 GMT
#21
On July 04 2010 15:09 Spyfire242 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 04 2010 15:05 Lightwip wrote:
On July 04 2010 14:58 hacpee wrote:
A map with no gas.

Rofl... you're right though.



I think terran would be almost 100% win on a map with no gas...

Cannons beg to differ.
If you are not Bisu, chances are I hate you.
ejac
Profile Blog Joined January 2009
United States1195 Posts
July 04 2010 06:24 GMT
#22
On July 04 2010 15:09 Spyfire242 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 04 2010 15:05 Lightwip wrote:
On July 04 2010 14:58 hacpee wrote:
A map with no gas.

Rofl... you're right though.



I think terran would be almost 100% win on a map with no gas...

No, terran would be unplayable. The game would devolve into static D vs. static D, and bunkers without range upgrade are outranged by sunkens/cannons.
esq>n
Lightwip
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
United States5497 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-07-04 06:33:30
July 04 2010 06:33 GMT
#23
A map with no gas would have to have HG so small that cannons/spores could reach it for our BM friend Idra though.
Honestly, PvT advantages are often ZvP advantages as well though.
If you are not Bisu, chances are I hate you.
sechkie
Profile Blog Joined January 2010
United States334 Posts
July 04 2010 06:33 GMT
#24
lol we should totally have a game where no one is allowed to get gas lol! seems fun lol
infinity2k9
Profile Blog Joined January 2009
United Kingdom2397 Posts
July 04 2010 07:15 GMT
#25
BGH
ilbh
Profile Blog Joined May 2007
Brazil1606 Posts
July 04 2010 08:47 GMT
#26
gaia

at least for ZvP: P can abuse of air harass, easy to defend nat and third, open in the middle...
Part of the inhumanity of the computer is that, once it is competently programmed and working smoothly, it is completely honest.
Ideas
Profile Blog Joined April 2008
United States8082 Posts
July 04 2010 08:56 GMT
#27
medusa was pretty good for protoss. pretty much all the maps from the clubday/incruit days lol
Free Palestine
exeexe
Profile Blog Joined January 2010
Denmark937 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-07-04 08:57:04
July 04 2010 08:56 GMT
#28
A destructible building blocking entrance - thats good in pvz
Then add features around the building so that you can pylon jump it with a probe.
And never forget, its always easier to throw a bomb downstairs than up. - George Orwell
Neon_Monkey
Profile Joined February 2008
United States270 Posts
July 04 2010 09:46 GMT
#29
An island map without enough land for heavy dropship play would probably do it.
Djin)ftw(
Profile Blog Joined November 2008
Germany3357 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-07-04 11:18:52
July 04 2010 11:15 GMT
#30
it would be an island map
dire straitsNeo Hall of ValhallaGorky Island
"jk CLG best mindgames using the baron to counterthrow" - boesthius
darkemperor
Profile Blog Joined August 2008
Turkey725 Posts
July 04 2010 11:36 GMT
#31
On July 04 2010 20:15 Djin)ftw( wrote:
it would be an island map
dire straitsNeo Hall of ValhallaGorky Island


These remind me that we need island maps now..
#1 Kim Taek Yong Fan <3 || Legend of the Fall // Fall of the Legend
Holgerius
Profile Blog Joined January 2009
Sweden16951 Posts
July 04 2010 11:41 GMT
#32
Vs T it's great when the terrain isn't buildable.
I believe in the almighty Grötslev! -- I am never serious and you should never believe a thing I say. Including the previous sentence.
ArvickHero
Profile Blog Joined October 2007
10387 Posts
July 04 2010 12:14 GMT
#33
Add an unbuildable center and surround the bases with a cliff (like Medusa) that is unbuildable (but walkable) for Reaver harass/recall to make PvT imba. Pretty sure an inbase min-only third (like Andro) w/ lots of mineral patches would help Protoss, but I'm not too sure on that one. Add some islands w/ double gas and good space to build cannons.

A second entrance blocked by mineral patches benefits Protoss when they are contained, but be sure to add a lot so that it can't be mined out early for some Zerg cheese. Have like 13 or more mineral patches in the main to make PvZ easy. The center should have a couple of structures to keep it from being too open, ala Fighting Spirit or Neo Requiem.

That's pretty much all I can think of that would make a map universally imba for Protoss. Maybe making the map a semi-island like Troy or Plasma would make it worse
Writerptrk
Servius_Fulvius
Profile Joined August 2009
United States947 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-07-04 12:25:50
July 04 2010 12:24 GMT
#34
http://www.teamliquid.net/tlpd/korean/maps/162_Katrina

+ Show Spoiler +
[image loading]


The balance is a lot more extreme for PvZ rather than PvT, but it's protoss-favored on both accounts
Necosarius
Profile Blog Joined September 2009
Sweden4042 Posts
July 04 2010 12:43 GMT
#35
The reason Katrina is so P>T is because terrans had such a hard time dealing with the fast carriers, now they don't since Flash came up with the build that would be the standard type of play now. So if progamers would play on katrina again I think the balance would be more T=P. What's so funny about Katrina is that everyone cried about "omfg siege tank imba, terran heaven".

IMO in PvT a very open map with long rush distance and hard to secure third base and no ramp would be P>T.
KlaCkoN
Profile Blog Joined May 2007
Sweden1661 Posts
July 04 2010 12:52 GMT
#36
Katrina was always a lot harder for zvp rather than tvp ~~ Huge distance made expanding really hard.
I guess that's key for a protoss map in general, keep the expansions and mains really far apart and hard to defend. Islands are nice too.
"Voice or no voice the people can always be brought to the bidding of their leaders ... All you have to do is tell them they are being attacked and denounce the pacifists for lack of patriotism and exposing the country to danger."
Strelok
Profile Joined January 2006
Ukraine320 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-07-04 12:54:12
July 04 2010 12:53 GMT
#37
Troy and 815 are best protoss maps in every matchup. Oh also i forgot about forbidden zone
opsayo
Profile Blog Joined July 2008
591 Posts
July 04 2010 13:07 GMT
#38
isn't neo forbidden zone toss favored?
niteReloaded
Profile Blog Joined February 2007
Croatia5281 Posts
July 04 2010 13:11 GMT
#39
Back in my old (banned) account, almost 4 years ago, I made a thread about the impossibily to making Protoss favored maps for all matchups.

http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=46467
Leath
Profile Blog Joined July 2006
Canada1724 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-07-04 13:33:36
July 04 2010 13:26 GMT
#40
The perfect protoss map would have to be a map where the larger open areas are placed so that it favors a protoss defending terran main timing attacks, all the while with strategic choke points to prevent zerg from keeping map control too easily.

The bases cant be too far, and a third base could be place around the first one (like Longinus), so that you can easily defend your surrounding edges all the while keeping your main safe from drops.

There should be a relative easy non-main base with 2 geyser, since Protoss will most likely require a lot of gas investment in mid and late game. Protoss High Templar and Archons are hardest units to fight against as Zerg. Arbiters and High Templar are very powerful to diminish the Terran army. Therefore, a Protoss with a lot of gas can become strong quickly.

The natural expansion entrance should be easy to narrow. In that fashion, the Protoss can easily FE and prevent lings run-by and mid game vulture raids.

I think that is about it.
Longinus, Troy and Katrina are possibly the best maps for Protoss.
http://www.kongregate.com/?referrer=Sagess
Invictus
Profile Blog Joined September 2009
Singapore2697 Posts
July 04 2010 13:30 GMT
#41
I think something with retardedly small bases and chokes so that carriers and corsairs will have fun sniping and arbiters can recall
Lee Jaedong Fighting!
dtnmang
Profile Joined April 2010
Vietnam752 Posts
July 04 2010 13:51 GMT
#42
On July 04 2010 22:30 streamofhonour wrote:
I think something with retardedly small bases and chokes so that carriers and corsairs will have fun sniping and arbiters can recall
Before Carriers can make their presence the map will become tank heaven.
KT Roflster - the lulziest team of Proleague.
StarStruck
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
25339 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-07-04 13:59:37
July 04 2010 13:52 GMT
#43
How can you not find it? Go to the TLPD and click maps. Click on a map and viola it's done. Either that or type in a name of the map and you can get to the directory from there. Something tells me you didn't try hard enough. Either way, here you go.

Top Ten of All Time (in random order):

Neo Forbidden Zone:

[image loading]

Neo Hall of Valhalla:
[image loading]

Enter the Dragon 2004
[image loading]

Paradoxxx 2
[image loading]

One of the worst ZvP maps of all time.

Korhal Of Ceres
[image loading]

Biggest TvP joke map of all time.

Gorky Island
[image loading]

See Paradoxxx 2.

Parallel Lines
[image loading]

Again Zerg couldn't do much. Parallel Lines 2 ultimately fixed this.

Snowbound
[image loading]

One of the worst ZvP, TvP maps of all time. Thank Blizzard for this abomination.

Neo Blaze
[image loading]

This map will make you want to quit Zerg if you run into a Protoss.

Plains to Hill
[image loading]

Terran really suffer here to P.

._.
dtnmang
Profile Joined April 2010
Vietnam752 Posts
July 04 2010 14:22 GMT
#44
Paradoxxx
Why do I always think there's a porn reference in this name.
KT Roflster - the lulziest team of Proleague.
Shiro)Tenshi
Profile Blog Joined February 2010
China214 Posts
July 04 2010 14:52 GMT
#45
more cliffs = more carrier imbal

enough said~
Shiro)Tenshi
Profile Blog Joined February 2010
China214 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-07-04 14:54:55
July 04 2010 14:54 GMT
#46
On July 04 2010 23:52 Kryxia wrote:
more cliffs = more carrier imbal

enough said~


Edit: Unbuildable areas always helps too

Edit 2: Crap, wrong button
imweakless
Profile Blog Joined September 2009
757 Posts
July 04 2010 14:58 GMT
#47
no expansion
KMK,Qri,GsD#1, UEE,stork jangbi for life!
Randomaccount#77123
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
United States5003 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-07-04 15:12:48
July 04 2010 15:11 GMT
#48
--- Nuked ---
Spyfire242
Profile Joined March 2009
United States715 Posts
July 04 2010 15:39 GMT
#49
On July 04 2010 15:23 Lightwip wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 04 2010 15:09 Spyfire242 wrote:
On July 04 2010 15:05 Lightwip wrote:
On July 04 2010 14:58 hacpee wrote:
A map with no gas.

Rofl... you're right though.



I think terran would be almost 100% win on a map with no gas...

Cannons beg to differ.


In what situation did you think cannons/zealots would beat mass marines?
Entusman #55 Spyfire242!
Methos
Profile Blog Joined January 2009
United States206 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-07-04 16:39:19
July 04 2010 16:38 GMT
#50
On July 05 2010 00:39 Spyfire242 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 04 2010 15:23 Lightwip wrote:
On July 04 2010 15:09 Spyfire242 wrote:
On July 04 2010 15:05 Lightwip wrote:
On July 04 2010 14:58 hacpee wrote:
A map with no gas.

Rofl... you're right though.



I think terran would be almost 100% win on a map with no gas...

Cannons beg to differ.


In what situation did you think cannons/zealots would beat mass marines?


Well the marines don't have stim, range, or medic support so well placed cannons would be pretty effective. Though you basically have to populate the map with cannons (might as well since lots without speed are useless)

edit: actually you would lose since your cannons would freeze after some point haha
dhe95
Profile Blog Joined December 2008
United States1213 Posts
July 04 2010 16:40 GMT
#51
On July 05 2010 00:39 Spyfire242 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 04 2010 15:23 Lightwip wrote:
On July 04 2010 15:09 Spyfire242 wrote:
On July 04 2010 15:05 Lightwip wrote:
On July 04 2010 14:58 hacpee wrote:
A map with no gas.

Rofl... you're right though.



I think terran would be almost 100% win on a map with no gas...

Cannons beg to differ.


In what situation did you think cannons/zealots would beat mass marines?

protoss can go forge and build a mass cannon contain at the front. terran can only build turrets bunker and marines so it's going to be pretty hard to break out. then protoss mines out the rest of the map and continues building cannons until terran is starved out and eventually makes zealots or keeps pushing to the terran's last buildings

also the reason why i think it's so hard to make a completely P imba map is because the same factors that make it easy to win PvZ are the ones that make it easy to win TvP, ex. easy 3rd gas, small chokes
hacpee
Profile Joined November 2007
United States752 Posts
July 04 2010 16:43 GMT
#52
On July 05 2010 00:39 Spyfire242 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 04 2010 15:23 Lightwip wrote:
On July 04 2010 15:09 Spyfire242 wrote:
On July 04 2010 15:05 Lightwip wrote:
On July 04 2010 14:58 hacpee wrote:
A map with no gas.

Rofl... you're right though.



I think terran would be almost 100% win on a map with no gas...

Cannons beg to differ.


In what situation did you think cannons/zealots would beat mass marines?


In a situation where marines don't have stim, range, or medics.
G5
Profile Blog Joined August 2005
United States2897 Posts
July 04 2010 16:49 GMT
#53
Loki 3

My favorite map by far

Totally Protoss favored
Mania[K]al
Profile Joined May 2009
United States359 Posts
July 04 2010 18:06 GMT
#54
Medusa.

How to make a good P>T map T>P?

Neo Medusa.
Viruuus
Profile Joined February 2010
Germany451 Posts
July 04 2010 18:28 GMT
#55
Collosseum 2 seems a bit protoss favored aswell, Iccup stats are
ZvP 272 — 279 (49%)
TvP 233 — 256 (48%)
Lee Jae Dong fighting!!!
n.DieJokes
Profile Blog Joined November 2008
United States3443 Posts
July 04 2010 18:51 GMT
#56
A large amount of minerals at the main and nat is the only thing I can think of thats good both PvT and PvZ
MyLove + Your Love= Supa Love
stroggos
Profile Joined February 2009
New Zealand1543 Posts
July 04 2010 19:27 GMT
#57
open spaces with a min only natural i guess. Would certainly make P decent vs all other matchups
hi
ccou
Profile Joined December 2008
United States681 Posts
July 04 2010 20:12 GMT
#58
On July 04 2010 22:52 StarStruck wrote:
How can you not find it? Go to the TLPD and click maps. Click on a map and viola it's done. Either that or type in a name of the map and you can get to the directory from there. Something tells me you didn't try hard enough. Either way, here you go.


There was a nifty version where it showed all the maps together with colored bars showing imbalance. And you can sort them with the various imbalances.
Wake up Mr. B!
Nub4ever
Profile Blog Joined October 2009
Canada1981 Posts
July 04 2010 20:27 GMT
#59
On July 04 2010 13:55 YoonHo wrote:
I would say very open maps :O.

Yes, but if it were very open Zerg would probably have and advantage over toss then.
Dota 3hard5me
Lightwip
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
United States5497 Posts
July 04 2010 20:29 GMT
#60
On July 05 2010 00:39 Spyfire242 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 04 2010 15:23 Lightwip wrote:
On July 04 2010 15:09 Spyfire242 wrote:
On July 04 2010 15:05 Lightwip wrote:
On July 04 2010 14:58 hacpee wrote:
A map with no gas.

Rofl... you're right though.



I think terran would be almost 100% win on a map with no gas...

Cannons beg to differ.


In what situation did you think cannons/zealots would beat mass marines?

I just tested it, 15 cannons = about 100 marines. And they cost as much as 45 marines.
If you are not Bisu, chances are I hate you.
Bwenjarin Raffrack
Profile Joined November 2008
United States322 Posts
July 04 2010 20:44 GMT
#61
On July 05 2010 05:12 ccou wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 04 2010 22:52 StarStruck wrote:
How can you not find it? Go to the TLPD and click maps. Click on a map and viola it's done. Either that or type in a name of the map and you can get to the directory from there. Something tells me you didn't try hard enough. Either way, here you go.


There was a nifty version where it showed all the maps together with colored bars showing imbalance. And you can sort them with the various imbalances.


Map Balance Table. Nifty, sure, but unfortunately still undocumented. Last I checked, it still had a few duplicate entries to watch out for, probably cross-pollination with the stats from the TSLD.
I'm not as thunk as dreople pink I am.
ArvickHero
Profile Blog Joined October 2007
10387 Posts
July 05 2010 01:14 GMT
#62
I just had the thought that adding random unbuildable patches of land at the gas third would help tremendously for Protoss in PvZ, since then Zergs won't be able to sim-city effectively and thereby die to timing attacks without sacrificing more economy.

Wouldn't really affect PvT too much since Protoss would still be able to build pylons and cannons to defend it from vulture harass, if the unbuildable land is positioned correctly.
Writerptrk
illu
Profile Blog Joined December 2008
Canada2531 Posts
July 05 2010 01:46 GMT
#63
Island Maps!
:]
vOddy
Profile Joined July 2009
Sweden402 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-07-05 03:11:49
July 05 2010 01:58 GMT
#64
On July 05 2010 10:14 ArvickHero wrote:
I just had the thought that adding random unbuildable patches of land at the gas third would help tremendously for Protoss in PvZ, since then Zergs won't be able to sim-city effectively and thereby die to timing attacks without sacrificing more economy.

Wouldn't really affect PvT too much since Protoss would still be able to build pylons and cannons to defend it from vulture harass, if the unbuildable land is positioned correctly.


Smart idea!

Protoss could go 4 gate 2 archon + zealots and force the Zerg to waste so much money just to survive it. Kind of like how Protoss used to own zerg back when Protoss was dominating. Before Zergs learned to simcity, Protoss often defeated Zerg in one decisive blow of zealots and archons.
"You generate awesomeness. It just flows from you."
blahman3344
Profile Blog Joined March 2009
United States2015 Posts
July 05 2010 02:18 GMT
#65
You can't really have a single specific trait of a map that makes it favored to one particular race. For example:
Openness makes P > T, but Z > P.

I think that its a combination of specific traits allow certain strategies to be used (or abused if its Troy for PvT =P). Fro example:
P > Z on Troy because there is very little open space for the zerg to flank the protoss army.
Also, P > T on Troy is because most protosses don't do the typical arbiter + goon, zealot army. They abuse the multiple cliffs and high grounds by going for carrier builds.
I like haikus and / I can not lie. You other / brothers can't deny
koreasilver
Profile Blog Joined June 2008
9109 Posts
July 05 2010 04:12 GMT
#66
Unbuildable center/bridges/etc. make it harder for Terran against Protoss. Against Zerg the easiest think I can think of is having 10+ mineral patches, although map layout has a bigger factor.
MageKirby
Profile Joined July 2009
United States535 Posts
July 05 2010 04:51 GMT
#67
I think its hard to make a protoss only map, unless its like othello or something where harassing is easy for HT, and HT only.

Cuz when PvT, P act like Z. And during PvZ, P act like T. P need to be quite bipolar :o
Zona
Profile Blog Joined May 2007
40426 Posts
July 06 2010 15:38 GMT
#68
In case people are still thinking about the marines vs cannons idea - just make sure there isn't any buildable ground large enough to accommodate a barracks (while being able to accommodate a forge, of course)
"If you try responding to those absurd posts every day, you become more damaged. So I pay no attention to them at all." Jung Myung Hoon (aka Fantasy), as translated by Kimoleon
Metalwing
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
Turkey1038 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-07-08 20:24:07
July 08 2010 20:21 GMT
#69
A protoss favored map looks like Requiem or God's Garden.

EDIT: Nemesis or Othello go well too.
#1 CheckPrime fan // Terrans gonna Terran
ella_guru
Profile Blog Joined August 2009
Canada1741 Posts
July 08 2010 20:29 GMT
#70
On July 07 2010 00:38 Zona wrote:
In case people are still thinking about the marines vs cannons idea - just make sure there isn't any buildable ground large enough to accommodate a barracks (while being able to accommodate a forge, of course)



Well thats just lame
Each day gets better : )
MuffinDude
Profile Blog Joined November 2008
United States3837 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-07-08 20:42:11
July 08 2010 20:40 GMT
#71
On July 05 2010 00:39 Spyfire242 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 04 2010 15:23 Lightwip wrote:
On July 04 2010 15:09 Spyfire242 wrote:
On July 04 2010 15:05 Lightwip wrote:
On July 04 2010 14:58 hacpee wrote:
A map with no gas.

Rofl... you're right though.



I think terran would be almost 100% win on a map with no gas...

Cannons beg to differ.


In what situation did you think cannons/zealots would beat mass marines?

Cannons 2 hit rines. Try it. Marines without range or stim gets owned by cannons quickly. One cannon > 3 rines easily.

On July 05 2010 11:18 blahman3344 wrote:
You can't really have a single specific trait of a map that makes it favored to one particular race. For example:
Openness makes P > T, but Z > P.

I think that its a combination of specific traits allow certain strategies to be used (or abused if its Troy for PvT =P). Fro example:
P > Z on Troy because there is very little open space for the zerg to flank the protoss army.
Also, P > T on Troy is because most protosses don't do the typical arbiter + goon, zealot army. They abuse the multiple cliffs and high grounds by going for carrier builds.

Yes you can, openness favor zerg and chokes favor terran.
Zerg can be so abusive sometimes | third member of the "loli is not a crime club" PM konadora to join!
2Pacalypse-
Profile Joined October 2006
Croatia9491 Posts
July 08 2010 20:43 GMT
#72
On July 04 2010 16:15 infinity2k9 wrote:
BGH

I can't believe only one person said this.

This is 100% true. Not only BGH is P favored in 1v1's, but in team matches as well ^^.
Moderator"We're a community of geniuses because we've found how to extract 95% of the feeling of doing something amazing without actually doing anything." - Chill
roronoe
Profile Joined May 2009
Canada1527 Posts
July 08 2010 22:18 GMT
#73
free drone and scv in each main for protoss to mind control.

while it might not affect the gameplay too much, its certainly a feature that can only benefit the protoss and something that none of the other races can take advantage of.
The Purgatory of Endless Depths
GreEny K
Profile Joined February 2008
Germany7312 Posts
July 08 2010 22:23 GMT
#74
On July 04 2010 15:05 Lightwip wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 04 2010 14:58 hacpee wrote:
A map with no gas.

Rofl... you're right though.


... Have you played a pvt with marines versus zealots?
Why would you ever choose failure, when success is an option.
Major
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
Mexico539 Posts
July 08 2010 22:25 GMT
#75
Really no one mentioned Heart break ridge 4 pages and no one mentioned it

so good pvt and pvz
Progamer
Lovin
Profile Joined May 2009
Denmark812 Posts
July 08 2010 22:49 GMT
#76
Carrier abuse is great on maps with many cliffs, walls and long runs between bases
AKA SuddenSalad
Crunchums
Profile Blog Joined December 2008
United States11143 Posts
July 08 2010 22:51 GMT
#77
On July 04 2010 14:50 Duckvillelol wrote:
For PvT at least - it would look something like this.

i wonder how many people thought of this exact joke, i know i did
brood war for life, brood war forever
T.O.P. *
Profile Blog Joined January 2009
Hong Kong4685 Posts
July 08 2010 22:55 GMT
#78
On July 09 2010 07:25 Gositerran wrote:
Really no one mentioned Heart break ridge 4 pages and no one mentioned it

so good pvt and pvz

It's not good in pvz. Lurkers on cliffs are imba.
Oracle comes in, Scvs go down, never a miscommunication.
prOxi.swAMi
Profile Blog Joined November 2004
Australia3091 Posts
July 08 2010 23:19 GMT
#79
Anything with big open spaces really... Luna... Andromeda...
Oh no
zobz
Profile Joined November 2005
Canada2175 Posts
July 08 2010 23:32 GMT
#80
There are obviously some p>t traits that also make for z>p and vice versa. The question is whether you can pick and choose all the traits that effect one matchup without effecting the other, and have it be enough.
"That's not gonna be good for business." "That's not gonna be good for anybody."
Lightwip
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
United States5497 Posts
July 08 2010 23:39 GMT
#81
On July 09 2010 07:23 GreEny K wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 04 2010 15:05 Lightwip wrote:
On July 04 2010 14:58 hacpee wrote:
A map with no gas.

Rofl... you're right though.


... Have you played a pvt with marines versus zealots?

Have you ever played a tvp with non-upgraded marines vs cannons?
If you are not Bisu, chances are I hate you.
abaDURRR
Profile Joined December 2009
Canada88 Posts
July 08 2010 23:44 GMT
#82
How about Destination without the little thing at the back and more bridges
exeexe
Profile Blog Joined January 2010
Denmark937 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-07-09 00:05:31
July 09 2010 00:05 GMT
#83
In mainbase the ground would be unbuildable in such a way that you can make gates but you cant make factories with addons.
And never forget, its always easier to throw a bomb downstairs than up. - George Orwell
Severedevil
Profile Blog Joined April 2009
United States4835 Posts
July 09 2010 01:15 GMT
#84
On July 09 2010 07:55 T.O.P. wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 09 2010 07:25 Gositerran wrote:
Really no one mentioned Heart break ridge 4 pages and no one mentioned it

so good pvt and pvz

It's not good in pvz. Lurkers on cliffs are imba.

There's a reason Movie always gets Reavers on that map.

50% miss chance up the cliff makes Dragoons fucking horrible.
My strategy is to fork people.
Hidden_MotiveS
Profile Blog Joined February 2010
Canada2562 Posts
July 09 2010 03:04 GMT
#85
I don't think anyone does very well on the chrystalis map
CharlieMurphy
Profile Blog Joined March 2006
United States22895 Posts
July 09 2010 04:19 GMT
#86
I'd say a wide open nat favors protoss heavily in both matchups.
Good places for warp in pylons.
Lot of cliffs for blink/collosus abuse.
semi tight paths, but multiple paths (like Kulas).
No cliffs on nats?
..and then I would, ya know, check em'. (Aka SpoR)
writer22816
Profile Blog Joined September 2008
United States5775 Posts
July 09 2010 04:46 GMT
#87
On July 04 2010 15:09 Spyfire242 wrote:
I think terran would be almost 100% win on a map with no gas...


On July 05 2010 00:39 Spyfire242 wrote:
In what situation did you think cannons/zealots would beat mass marines?


-___-

http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/index.php?show_part=19

and stay out!
8/4/12 never forget, never forgive.
Hautamaki
Profile Blog Joined December 2003
Canada1311 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-07-09 06:23:03
July 09 2010 06:20 GMT
#88
Paradoxxx favoured toss. Probably been said already, didn't read all the posts. But it was basically a pure island map, and the main had room for 2 or 3 nexi and it had 2 or 3 geysers and 20 some odd mineral patches. Can't remember exactly it's been years. But basically toss could wreck anything with mass sair/reaver/goon into mass sair/carrier/arb. Toss endgame air beats anything either zerg or terran have.
True learning is not the memorization of knowledge; it is the internalization of patterns.
Hautamaki
Profile Blog Joined December 2003
Canada1311 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-07-09 06:29:03
July 09 2010 06:26 GMT
#89
Also in general really rich mains favour toss. There was another map, I think it was called Evolution somethingorother in which the main base had 2 sets of minerals and gasses so every race got an absolutely free fast expand, and the middle was wide open, and toss wrecked on that too. If toss can expand as fast as terran and zerg without having to worry about harassment at all toss can basically overpower any midgame force pretty easily.

edit I think the name was Evolution Predator, but I can't remember if that's the right map
True learning is not the memorization of knowledge; it is the internalization of patterns.
Plexa
Profile Blog Joined October 2005
Aotearoa39261 Posts
July 09 2010 07:33 GMT
#90
On July 09 2010 15:20 Hautamaki wrote:
Paradoxxx favoured toss. Probably been said already, didn't read all the posts. But it was basically a pure island map, and the main had room for 2 or 3 nexi and it had 2 or 3 geysers and 20 some odd mineral patches. Can't remember exactly it's been years. But basically toss could wreck anything with mass sair/reaver/goon into mass sair/carrier/arb. Toss endgame air beats anything either zerg or terran have.

Oddly enough, I dont think Paradoxxx would be Protoss favored at the moment... At least not against Terrans. With that said, Baekmagokji was decently P favored!
[image loading]
Administrator~ Spirit will set you free ~
Hautamaki
Profile Blog Joined December 2003
Canada1311 Posts
July 09 2010 07:49 GMT
#91
On July 09 2010 16:33 Plexa wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 09 2010 15:20 Hautamaki wrote:
Paradoxxx favoured toss. Probably been said already, didn't read all the posts. But it was basically a pure island map, and the main had room for 2 or 3 nexi and it had 2 or 3 geysers and 20 some odd mineral patches. Can't remember exactly it's been years. But basically toss could wreck anything with mass sair/reaver/goon into mass sair/carrier/arb. Toss endgame air beats anything either zerg or terran have.

Oddly enough, I dont think Paradoxxx would be Protoss favored at the moment... At least not against Terrans.


Really? Why not? Has some patch buffed terran air?
True learning is not the memorization of knowledge; it is the internalization of patterns.
Plexa
Profile Blog Joined October 2005
Aotearoa39261 Posts
July 09 2010 07:59 GMT
#92
On July 09 2010 16:49 Hautamaki wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 09 2010 16:33 Plexa wrote:
On July 09 2010 15:20 Hautamaki wrote:
Paradoxxx favoured toss. Probably been said already, didn't read all the posts. But it was basically a pure island map, and the main had room for 2 or 3 nexi and it had 2 or 3 geysers and 20 some odd mineral patches. Can't remember exactly it's been years. But basically toss could wreck anything with mass sair/reaver/goon into mass sair/carrier/arb. Toss endgame air beats anything either zerg or terran have.

Oddly enough, I dont think Paradoxxx would be Protoss favored at the moment... At least not against Terrans.


Really? Why not? Has some patch buffed terran air?

No we haven't had any patches, just the style of Terran play at the moment pretty much relinquished Carriers to near useless for a long time. They're only just seeing some play time again recently after about 1.75 years of nothing. This is primarily thanks to Flash and his TvP revolutions on Katrina (which was a 2 base carrier heaven). A modern playstyle on paradoxxx would probably lead to (at least) even play in PvT imo.
Administrator~ Spirit will set you free ~
GHOSTCLAW
Profile Blog Joined February 2008
United States17042 Posts
July 09 2010 08:07 GMT
#93
I would think that one of the properties of a P favored map would be a close, Mineral only third, and/or an island.

Although the way that PvZ and PvT have been playing out, it's very difficult to create a map with that kind of P imbalance in both matchups.
PhotographerLiquipedia. Drop me a pm if you've got questions/need help.
Hautamaki
Profile Blog Joined December 2003
Canada1311 Posts
July 09 2010 08:20 GMT
#94
On July 09 2010 16:59 Plexa wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 09 2010 16:49 Hautamaki wrote:
On July 09 2010 16:33 Plexa wrote:
On July 09 2010 15:20 Hautamaki wrote:
Paradoxxx favoured toss. Probably been said already, didn't read all the posts. But it was basically a pure island map, and the main had room for 2 or 3 nexi and it had 2 or 3 geysers and 20 some odd mineral patches. Can't remember exactly it's been years. But basically toss could wreck anything with mass sair/reaver/goon into mass sair/carrier/arb. Toss endgame air beats anything either zerg or terran have.

Oddly enough, I dont think Paradoxxx would be Protoss favored at the moment... At least not against Terrans.


Really? Why not? Has some patch buffed terran air?

No we haven't had any patches, just the style of Terran play at the moment pretty much relinquished Carriers to near useless for a long time. They're only just seeing some play time again recently after about 1.75 years of nothing. This is primarily thanks to Flash and his TvP revolutions on Katrina (which was a 2 base carrier heaven). A modern playstyle on paradoxxx would probably lead to (at least) even play in PvT imo.


Hmm, well, carriers have always been counterable cost effectively at the highest levels but what about arbiters? The triple whammy of cloaking, stasis, and recall has always been the toss' trump card, don't tell me even arbs don't work any more!
True learning is not the memorization of knowledge; it is the internalization of patterns.
Plexa
Profile Blog Joined October 2005
Aotearoa39261 Posts
July 09 2010 08:28 GMT
#95
On July 09 2010 17:20 Hautamaki wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 09 2010 16:59 Plexa wrote:
On July 09 2010 16:49 Hautamaki wrote:
On July 09 2010 16:33 Plexa wrote:
On July 09 2010 15:20 Hautamaki wrote:
Paradoxxx favoured toss. Probably been said already, didn't read all the posts. But it was basically a pure island map, and the main had room for 2 or 3 nexi and it had 2 or 3 geysers and 20 some odd mineral patches. Can't remember exactly it's been years. But basically toss could wreck anything with mass sair/reaver/goon into mass sair/carrier/arb. Toss endgame air beats anything either zerg or terran have.

Oddly enough, I dont think Paradoxxx would be Protoss favored at the moment... At least not against Terrans.


Really? Why not? Has some patch buffed terran air?

No we haven't had any patches, just the style of Terran play at the moment pretty much relinquished Carriers to near useless for a long time. They're only just seeing some play time again recently after about 1.75 years of nothing. This is primarily thanks to Flash and his TvP revolutions on Katrina (which was a 2 base carrier heaven). A modern playstyle on paradoxxx would probably lead to (at least) even play in PvT imo.


Hmm, well, carriers have always been counterable cost effectively at the highest levels but what about arbiters? The triple whammy of cloaking, stasis, and recall has always been the toss' trump card, don't tell me even arbs don't work any more!
Arbs still work - more so than ever. Although Terrans use science vessels way better than they did in 2004 and most good terrans can EMP arbiters before recalls get in. It's certainly not a done deal though, I just don't think it's as strongly P>>T as it used to be (I would say its about even)

Another map which almost works is monty hall - although I'm not sure on the PvZ balance.
Administrator~ Spirit will set you free ~
Hautamaki
Profile Blog Joined December 2003
Canada1311 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-07-09 08:40:09
July 09 2010 08:37 GMT
#96
Hmm interesting. So what do terrans do now that makes late game toss air weaker? More emping? Ghosts with lockdown?

And what makes Baekmagokji toss favoured? Are those sunkens and Xel Naga temples supposed to be like destructible rocks and 'creeps?' I suppose if those are sunkens then perhaps toss has an edge because zealots take down sunkens more efficiently than marines or lings? That and the billions of resources in the main of course...

Sorry to pester you with all these questions but I find it all very interesting to hear about the game still evolving after 5 years of being away =p
True learning is not the memorization of knowledge; it is the internalization of patterns.
saltywet
Profile Blog Joined August 2009
Hong Kong1316 Posts
July 09 2010 08:58 GMT
#97
maybe short air distance/long ground distance?

long ground distance always favors P in PvT and short air distance means faster shuttle drops/obs

in PvZ, long ground distance can make 4-5-9 pools ineffective whilst although a mutalisk rush threat is prominent, really fast corsairs can make scouting really easy for protoss to react
Smu
Profile Joined July 2009
Serbia164 Posts
July 09 2010 09:01 GMT
#98
For a map to favor P, it just has to not favor Z or T. It cannot extremely heavily favor P, as they are not that straightforward. There was a map (forgot the name) that was used for around 20 pl games where Z had 100% percentage. The bases were very close but separated by a cliff. Playing Zerg meant you played with maphack from the 10th second thanks to the overlord. If the map has enough open spaces or more then 1 choke towards the enemy, and is close enough air wise to scout it early, it's a Zerg map. Natural expansion also has to defend the way into the main or ZvT would be impossible (altho it isn't as advantageous vs P, especially if the third base is not easy to get early or defend). If the map is tight and choke-y, and has a lot of cliffs, ramps, especially around important areas like expansions it will be a Terran map. The only thing that would make a P map, is a non-Z, non-T map, as without tactical advantages the other flavored armies enjoy, Protoss beat them straight up.
Take us into orbit Mr. Malmsteen. We've seen enough.
Plexa
Profile Blog Joined October 2005
Aotearoa39261 Posts
July 09 2010 09:04 GMT
#99
On July 09 2010 17:37 Hautamaki wrote:
Hmm interesting. So what do terrans do now that makes late game toss air weaker? More emping? Ghosts with lockdown?

And what makes Baekmagokji toss favoured? Are those sunkens and Xel Naga temples supposed to be like destructible rocks and 'creeps?' I suppose if those are sunkens then perhaps toss has an edge because zealots take down sunkens more efficiently than marines or lings? That and the billions of resources in the main of course...

Sorry to pester you with all these questions but I find it all very interesting to hear about the game still evolving after 5 years of being away =p

haha its alright ^^ i remember reading your strategy guide when I first got started in BW lol!

Terrans have the same tools available to them like they always have, they're just better at using them. Against Carriers you barely see any wraith transitions anymore (the only exception I can think of was pusan vs leta on grand line - but thats a biig exception). Flash killed 2 base carriers with his fast armory build (which got him quick upgrades). By the time you would transition into Carriers Terrans were already at 3-3 (or 2-1) meaning your carriers were like glass cannons. Couple that with the fact that Terrans learned how to macro a lot better, Carriers just were always an inferior option to Arbiter (that is, until recently where Arbiter/Carrier play is more common).

With that said, Arbiters got stronger since 2005 as a new generation of Protoss players took them up. Recalls became an invaluable way to attack Turtling Terrans and I dare say became a more useful spell than stasis. Stasis still has its uses, but I think overall Recall is used slightly more often. With that said, in a big battle Protoss still try to stasis everything they can - just that they would rather avoid that battle in the first place! Protoss also brought storm back into their game play (although it's kinda died out more recently, which is a shame). There's a pretty amazing video of Jangbi storming Nada to death somewhere around here - it's worth looking up since it's really quite impressive haha.

Baek was pretty protoss favored because you got 2 sets of mineral lines in the main and it was really easy to expand to the natural. The design of the middle made PvT pretty good (in addition to all the economic benefits) and PvZ meant you didn't need to FE anymore. Although, the statistics say that Z>P on the map, but I would argue that is due to the small sample size of the games and the fact that Zergs were rarely played so when one was it was a bit of surprise.
Administrator~ Spirit will set you free ~
Hautamaki
Profile Blog Joined December 2003
Canada1311 Posts
July 09 2010 09:10 GMT
#100
Thanks for the great reply. I remember theorycrafting lategame pvt all the time because it was so much fun. I imagined that recall was 2x better because of stasis; you could stasis vessels to prevent emp since stasis was instantaneous effect it was much easier to get off, and then recall with another arb. Plus I believe stasis cancels sv detection doesn't it? Anyways gotta go but thanks again =p
True learning is not the memorization of knowledge; it is the internalization of patterns.
Plexa
Profile Blog Joined October 2005
Aotearoa39261 Posts
July 09 2010 09:14 GMT
#101
On July 09 2010 18:10 Hautamaki wrote:
Thanks for the great reply. I remember theorycrafting lategame pvt all the time because it was so much fun. I imagined that recall was 2x better because of stasis; you could stasis vessels to prevent emp since stasis was instantaneous effect it was much easier to get off, and then recall with another arb. Plus I believe stasis cancels sv detection doesn't it? Anyways gotta go but thanks again =p
Yup, getting a stasis off on 4 vessels can be game breaking these days!
Administrator~ Spirit will set you free ~
hp.Shell
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
United States2527 Posts
July 09 2010 09:27 GMT
#102
Just have a bunch of neutral T and Z units scattered across the map for the P to MC.
Please PM me with any songs you like that you think I haven't heard before!
Ota Solgryn
Profile Blog Joined January 2008
Denmark2011 Posts
July 09 2010 10:32 GMT
#103
How about island maps? Weren't they stopped because protoss was OP on those?
ihasaKAROT: "Wish people would stop wasting their lives on finding flaws in others"
Geo.Rion
Profile Blog Joined October 2008
7377 Posts
July 09 2010 10:52 GMT
#104
A protoss favored map should have these imo:
-many mineral fields in the main and natural
-not that many, and not too defendable gas-expos
-choke which allows P to 10/15 vs T
-not too close main bases
-large main bases, so P can throw down his buildings np, and it makes it harder for T to cover his base against recalls
-not many highgrounds
-some cliffs, not close to main/natural but spread around the map in order that possible carriers/arbiters have an escape route
-single entrence natural base
"Protoss is a joke" Liquid`Jinro Okt.1. 2011
FaCE_1
Profile Blog Joined December 2006
Canada6166 Posts
July 09 2010 11:01 GMT
#105
Island ?

+ Show Spoiler +
[image loading]
n_n
Socke
Profile Joined November 2002
Germany451 Posts
July 09 2010 12:05 GMT
#106
that map wasnt easy pvt at all

there are way better island maps for p
Megalisk
Profile Blog Joined October 2008
United States6095 Posts
July 11 2010 05:46 GMT
#107
On July 09 2010 07:25 Gositerran wrote:
Really no one mentioned Heart break ridge 4 pages and no one mentioned it

so good pvt and pvz


You serious? HBR was amazing for ZvP.
Tear stained american saints and dirty guitar dreams across a universe of desert and blue sky , gas station coffee love letters and two dollar pistol kisses from thirty five dollar hotel room stationary .
hacpee
Profile Joined November 2007
United States752 Posts
July 11 2010 06:50 GMT
#108
Mineral heavy maps should favor terran really. Terran can go a vulture heavy style and own. Protoss is the one that needs a lot of gas later for arbiters.
dukethegold
Profile Blog Joined August 2009
Canada5645 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-07-11 08:12:21
July 11 2010 08:12 GMT
#109
No wonder Protoss is always on the wrong side of the fork. We need to dedicate an entire thread and the brain power of countless to figure out how to make a single map that is imba toward Protoss!
Bill Murray
Profile Blog Joined October 2009
United States9292 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-07-20 11:28:48
July 20 2010 11:26 GMT
#110
Polaris Rhapsody
narrow chokes helping for unflankable 3rd and 4th bases. a big ass map you can 12 nexus on. a 2 player map that makes it less costly to 8 scout with your probe. a map with a wide open middle, that is twilight, so it's easy on the eyes. if only it was islands, it would be perfect!
University of Kentucky Basketball #1
Pyrrhuloxia
Profile Blog Joined May 2008
United States6700 Posts
July 20 2010 11:32 GMT
#111
Baekmagoji.
StarStruck
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
25339 Posts
May 29 2011 15:37 GMT
#112
On July 05 2010 05:44 Bwenjarin Raffrack wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 05 2010 05:12 ccou wrote:
On July 04 2010 22:52 StarStruck wrote:
How can you not find it? Go to the TLPD and click maps. Click on a map and viola it's done. Either that or type in a name of the map and you can get to the directory from there. Something tells me you didn't try hard enough. Either way, here you go.


There was a nifty version where it showed all the maps together with colored bars showing imbalance. And you can sort them with the various imbalances.


Map Balance Table. Nifty, sure, but unfortunately still undocumented. Last I checked, it still had a few duplicate entries to watch out for, probably cross-pollination with the stats from the TSLD.


The URL doesn't exist anymore and I tried to find it using the Liquipedia. Anyone know if the Map Balance Table still exists somewhere? o_O
Piste
Profile Blog Joined July 2006
6174 Posts
May 29 2011 16:29 GMT
#113
On May 30 2011 00:37 StarStruck wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 05 2010 05:44 Bwenjarin Raffrack wrote:
On July 05 2010 05:12 ccou wrote:
On July 04 2010 22:52 StarStruck wrote:
How can you not find it? Go to the TLPD and click maps. Click on a map and viola it's done. Either that or type in a name of the map and you can get to the directory from there. Something tells me you didn't try hard enough. Either way, here you go.


There was a nifty version where it showed all the maps together with colored bars showing imbalance. And you can sort them with the various imbalances.


Map Balance Table. Nifty, sure, but unfortunately still undocumented. Last I checked, it still had a few duplicate entries to watch out for, probably cross-pollination with the stats from the TSLD.


The URL doesn't exist anymore and I tried to find it using the Liquipedia. Anyone know if the Map Balance Table still exists somewhere? o_O

good bump, I'd like to know also.
k.taeyang
Profile Blog Joined September 2009
Peru145 Posts
May 29 2011 17:09 GMT
#114
Central Plains?

They call it Protoss plains for a reason...
노력은 절대 배신 하지 않다 - 이제동 Hardwork never betrays - Lee Jae Dong
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