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mrdx
Vietnam1555 Posts
On May 04 2010 12:04 ShadeR wrote: Agreed, the perfection that is BW was an accident. I'm sceptical as to SC2 sucess as a perfectly balanced game like BW Don't even start this discussion. BW's success was an accident or not didn't matter, Blizzard created it. Even when an idiot invented something great he still deserves everything from his invention. | ||
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Seijuro
52 Posts
On May 04 2010 12:31 buhhy wrote: If you truly believe that, then wow... Otherwise, nice troll. im not saying wc3 was the bigger game in the esports scene, just saying wc3 > bw u know what that sign means? | ||
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Sprouter
United States1724 Posts
another point is that kespa is making bucks while the smaller venues aren't, but that doesn't work. hdh, tsl, and wcg all have sponsors just like kespa so i don't think that point works well. if blizzard is claiming ip for showing starcraft gameplay, doesn't that put all videos of any videogame at risk? blizzard is certainly making some very difficult demands. | ||
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Jugan
United States1566 Posts
On May 04 2010 07:48 rotinegg wrote: They may be, but they have now come to represent the entire esports industry. Whether they were idiots in the past or not, there is no chance that the esports scene will amputate kespa and run on its own, so hate it or love it, esports and kespa go hand in hand. Now if what kespa's statement outlines is true, blizzard is asking kespa to hand over the esports industry, and if you ask me that is absurd It's true. If Blizzard is being as unreasonable as KeSPA says, then it is (in my eyes) that Blizzard is the one doing wrong, no matter how stupid KeSPA has been in the past. Assuming KeSPA's claims are accurate. | ||
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zgl
United States1055 Posts
Blizzard's aces: SC2 + Bnet2.0 If Blizzard wants to strong arm Kespa (i.e. lock out SC2 from Kespa), then Kespa would be forced to stick with SC1 (not likely) or create their own RTS. Would be a loss for both sides, but probably bigger loss for Kespa. If this happens, we will find out about Blizzard's true intentions as they start working with new SC2 leagues. | ||
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Ronald_McD
Canada807 Posts
I guess reading this gives me a lot more perspective. I'm kind of neutral here. On this topic KeSPA isn't really trying to wrong Blizzard or anyone, but on several other accounts they've proven to be greedy pricks. Then there's Blizzard who's just as greedy it seems, and basically wants to turn KeSPA into it's gay man slave bitch. Sure KeSPA fucks around a lot, but I think it's fair to say that they would definitely do their part in bringing success to SC2. I just hope that the two parties come to a reasonable agreement. | ||
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Fraidnot
United States824 Posts
On May 04 2010 07:46 redtooth wrote: i'm actually surprised at the number of people taking kespa's side. just try to remember a time you've heard kespa's name associated with a positive act? they are just a bunch of greedy bureaucratic idiots who are trying their best to stay alive with SC2 looming around the corner. Battered housewife syndrome. | ||
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cartoon]x
United States606 Posts
On May 04 2010 07:36 Adron wrote: hmm, looks like blizzard woke up and eecided it wanted a piece of the pie Kespa baked. Or am i way off here? sounds like you hit the nail on the head | ||
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zgl
United States1055 Posts
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NeuralVibe
Singapore13 Posts
Korea continues their BW Proscene. Majority sticks to playing SC:BW instead of SC2. 1) All the progamers can continue plying their trade. 2) All the infrastructure can continue unhindered. 3) The casual gamers might play around abit with SC2, but the truly hardcore fans would still stick to what they have grown to love for the past few years. The rest of the world can start to develop the SC2 proscene. 1) From all the beta tournaments etc, there seems to be promise in this area. 2) Blizzard can have total monopoly of the international E-sports development through their new Bnet. 3) Foreigners will have a chance to start winning. Why must everyone assume immediately that its a case of either/or? True that theres lots of assumptions in the above, but from what I see, perhaps thats what the koreans are thinking too, with their 18+ rating on SC2. It's quite a good move in my opinion. Win-Win. my 2cent worth. | ||
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Jugan
United States1566 Posts
On May 04 2010 12:32 mrdx wrote: Don't even start this discussion. BW's success was an accident or not didn't matter, Blizzard created it. Even when an idiot invented something great he still deserves everything from his invention. A lot of people invented things or created theories and don't get a single ounce of credit for it. | ||
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Captain Peabody
United States3102 Posts
Based on what? I'm almost certain blizzard doesn't have the intellectual property rights to secondary products and will lose if there is litigation. I'm not sure you understand what the US law on "intellectual property" is. Blizzard in theory at least owns the Starcraft universe itself, all of the races, characters, and units, in the same way Walt Disney owns Mickey Mouse. If I make a map that has a slightly larger Zealot that shoots lasers out of his eyes, the map may be mine, but Blizzard still owns the Zealot, and thus I can't make any money off that map without Blizzard's express permission, in the same way that I can't make money selling a book about Mickey Mouse without Walt Disney's permission. At least in terms of US law (NOTE: THIS IS IMPORTANT), the holding company has a great deal of control over their intellectual properties; Disney has even gone so far in the past as to sue day-care centers that have used their characters promotionally without permission. In the case of Disney, NO ONE is allowed to use their IP and profit off of it without their direct control and oversight. Basically, from Blizzard's point of view, Kespa has been profiting off their IP for years by using the artwork, units, and even sound clips in all kinds of ways to promote their own events and in conjunction with all kinds of sponsors. As an example, just take a look at some of the recent Korean Air OSL commercials featuring Hydralisks, Dark Templar, and even sound-clips from the game itself; under at the very least US law, these commercials would almost definitely require direct authorization by Blizzard. Blizzard has basically let this slide, to a large extent simply because they weren't using or focusing on the Starcraft IP at all at that time, being engaged in the massive WoW endeavor. However, with the release of SC2, the SC IP is going to be back in the public eye in a big way, continuing hopefully for many years to come. Now, they're trying to reassert their control over their intellectual property, so that they can control how their trademarks, logos, etc are used and with whom they are associated. Understand that for Blizzard, this is much less about Starcraft 2 the GAME and much more about the IP and trademarks involved; the name, characters, universe, units, art, etc. Blizzard wants to control exactly how these things are used by other companies to make a profit. In this way, it's not really about money in the most immediate sense (though of course it is in a larger sense); royalties are certainly a part of it, but the most important thing Blizzard wants is CONTROL. It's really all about image for Blizzard. They want to protect and guard their image and the image of their products from anything that might tarnish that image in any way. Bad publicity is a big deal in industries like this; Blizzard gets a very large portion of its sales based solely on the Blizzard image and logo, on their reputation for quality and professionalism, and SC2 is going to make most of its sales based solely on the Starcraft IP and image. It's understandable that Blizzard would want to be in a position to decide what gets associated with that image, and what doesn't, and what that image is used to represent. However, Blizzard really does seem to want e-sports to flourish; for one thing, done right it's an amazing marketing tool, as the success of SC1 in Korea shows pretty clearly. It promotes and gets their IP out there in a way that few other things do; and if run professionally in a way worthy of the name "E-SPORTS," it makes their image even more prestigious, leading to more sales. As Mike Morhaime said, Blizzard is not into E-SPORTS as a direct money-making tool, but as a marketing tool. However, Blizzard wants e-sports done in such a way that they can still control how their IP is used. In Korea, they want a business partner that will basically run e-sports for them, but still allow them the ultimate say on what gets associated with the IP, and what doesn't. Basically, they want to be in such a position that if the OSL got sponsored by a strip club or slave-labor using corporation, they could veto that; or if the players are being treated poorly (which would lead to bad press and a tarnishing of the image of SC as related to child labor, etc), they want to be able to change that; and they want to be able to take an active hand in preventing and prosecuting things like the match-fixing scandal, things that tarnish the image of Starcraft and Blizzard. Image has always been VERY important to Blizzard, and it's very important to guys like Mike Morhaime. And, like it or not, Blizzard wants to be able to protect that image and control how it gets used, even in the realm of E-SPORTS. And above all, regardless of what they've done to promote the popularity and profitability of e-sports, Kespa has had a HUGE image problem. Things like the "pp" scandals, the massive "free agency" scrap, and now the match-fixing scandal are EXACTLY the kinds of things Blizzard doesn't want to be associated with the name of Starcraft in consumers' minds. From Blizzard's point of view, they absolutely can't just let Kespa have free reign over e-sports if it would mean even a single additional incident like the ones above...especially since (as they've done so far in Beta and have said they will continue to do and expand upon in the future) they plan to be aggressively promoting SC2 e-sports events to the general public through their websites, media, etc. And, really, there's no reason to expect Kespa to be any different than they have been in the future... As the article shows, Kespa is perfectly willing to pay fees to Blizzard, so long as they're basically left alone to do whatever they want; but this is exactly what Blizzard won't allow, and it's exactly why they're trying to exercise more control over e-sports in the first place. In other words, this conflict really cannot be resolved given the positions of the two sides. This could go into legal arbitration (in which case, not knowing ANYTHING about Korean laws concerning IP and copyright, I have no idea what would happen)...but more likely, Blizzard will simply allow Kespa to keep using SC1 and seek another, more cooperative, partner for SC2. There's a looooot of risk involved for both sides if they go to court; and I don't think either side will want to risk it. But allowing Kespa to use the SC2 IP without oversight is something that Blizzard is never going to be willing to do...and accepting that kind of oversight is almost definitely something that Kespa, used to years of benign neglect from Blizzard, is not going to be willing to do. Begun, the E-SPORT War has... + Show Spoiler + ![[image loading]](http://www.reelholes.com/Portals/0/Dan/ATTACK_OF_THE_CLONES_D1%20-%2000hr%2004min%2057sec.jpg) Addendum: People complaining about Blizzard wanting to audit Kespa's finances don't know what they're talking about. This is simply another way for Blizzard to exercise control over their image; they don't want to be associated with any company that might not be totally above-the-board or honest. It's pretty standard for companies entering business partnerships to audit each other's finances...and like it or not, this is the relationship Blizzard is envisioning with Kespa. The one-year thing is also just Blizzard not wanting to commit themselves indefinitely to partnership with any one company. It probably also reflects their doubts about Kespa's capacity to manage the game. | ||
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SkyLegenD
United States304 Posts
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TwoToneTerran
United States8841 Posts
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shinosai
United States1577 Posts
On May 04 2010 12:47 Jugan wrote: A lot of people invented things or created theories and don't get a single ounce of credit for it. Yeah, that's true. But those people aren't corporations with deep pockets. =0 In the US though it was only recently that inventors and researchers actually get any credit, never mind getting paid. You'd think that if you helped research technology that saves millions of lives medically, you'd be one of the richest people in the country. Not so true as it turns out. Ok, aside from that little diversion, Blizzard has deep pockets. I'm pretty sure they will get what they deserve and more. | ||
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RyanS
United States620 Posts
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heyitsme
153 Posts
One big thing about esports is that you need an audience, and the only place where you'll find a real one for SC is S.Korea. Outside the only followers you'll get is mostly people that are actually playing or have already played the game. There's already an infrastructure in SK, and Blizz won't be able to pierce through the market if they don't go through the platform that is already there which is KeSPA, mainly because the organization controls esports in all of its most important aspects : Teams, TV channels and sponsors. SC2 is already having issues in SK because of the ''adult only'' rating it might get. Do you think that an AO rated game will be broadcast 24/7 in all sorts of programs? There's no way an american based company will be able to lobby SC2 out of this without having at least a Korean partner taking interest in that business... so what about the major video game channels MBC and OGN? Sorry bud, they're part of KeSPA. So what about a major S.Korean corporation that could also sponsor our events like SK or Samsung? You guys see where Blizzard is going without KeSPA? | ||
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RoosterSamurai
Japan2108 Posts
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Scarecrow
Korea (South)9172 Posts
On May 04 2010 07:44 SichuanPanda wrote: Seems to me that Blizzard wants KeSPA to stop broadcasting Brood War to coincide with StarCraft 2 Release.... I'm boycotting all future blizzard products including SC2 if this happens. | ||
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FraCuS
United States1072 Posts
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StarCraft 2 StarCraft: Brood War Nal_rA Dota 2 6849ToSsGirL  380Zeus 196Larva  191Backho 92JulyZerg 82Dewaltoss 77NotJumperer 18Britney  0Counter-Strike Other Games Organizations StarCraft: Brood War Other Games StarCraft 2 StarCraft: Brood War |
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