EPTOn January 18 2010 09:46 neobowman wrote:
Do you have the player 12 start location in the map?
Do you have the player 12 start location in the map?
now i feel like an idiot
thanks
__
Shawn
[Contest] Map Design Contest! - Page 5
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the-Undermind
Canada106 Posts
now i feel like an idiot thanks __ Shawn | ||
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Nightmarjoo
United States3360 Posts
I don't have anything in there about making thematic maps, but if you guys were interested I could give some suggestions. The guide itself is focused on making maps for melee purposes, it's a little long, but perhaps could give you guys some ideas/help. I'm not really sure if it's helpful or not. People tell me it is, but then they don't actually incorporate the things I say in my guide into their maps, so either they are poor readers, or I did a very bad job of making the important ideas evident. I don't seem to actually reach anyone with my guide haha, it's just really long so they're like "good job!" ~~ You don't need a player 12 start location on map to make neutrals work. Just place "unit sprites" belonging to player 12. You can add the unit (not sprite) for a creep colony first and put the sprite over it so that 1. you know it's aligned properly with the tiles so as to avoid odd pathing behavior and 2. you can see the creep in the editor. | ||
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Husky
United States3362 Posts
On January 18 2010 07:55 Kenpachi wrote: what do you mean by found temple? er i should have edited my first post T_T A map with lots, and lots, and lots of temples. Or something.... just heavily temple themed to make fun of how much I hate python/lost temple  | ||
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Pyrrhuloxia
United States6700 Posts
On January 18 2010 11:15 Nightmarjoo wrote: A little shameless yeah, but for those interested is my Guide to Mapping: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=95409 I don't have anything in there about making thematic maps, but if you guys were interested I could give some suggestions. The guide itself is focused on making maps for melee purposes, it's a little long, but perhaps could give you guys some ideas/help. I'm not really sure if it's helpful or not. People tell me it is, but then they don't actually incorporate the things I say in my guide into their maps, so either they are poor readers, or I did a very bad job of making the important ideas evident. I don't seem to actually reach anyone with my guide haha, it's just really long so they're like "good job!" ~~ You don't need a player 12 start location on map to make neutrals work. Just place "unit sprites" belonging to player 12. You can add the unit (not sprite) for a creep colony first and put the sprite over it so that 1. you know it's aligned properly with the tiles so as to avoid odd pathing behavior and 2. you can see the creep in the editor. I used your guide... I spose you don't think I followed it though . I will read it in full now though. | ||
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dyren
United States260 Posts
So please hit me up on AIM @ "dyrenh" preview edit: thanks for the support Husky!! | ||
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Husky
United States3362 Posts
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Kenpachi
United States9908 Posts
On January 18 2010 12:31 dyren wrote: If there is anyone here comfortable with making a 3-player map and balancing the terrain please contact me. I desperately need some help. In case you're curious I'm attempting a 3-player version of Colosseum.. aka Colosseum III. (if it's not original enough to fit the contest no worries, but it seems to be turning out to be a cool map... ) So please hit me up on AIM @ "dyrenh" preview edit: thanks for the support Husky!! damn thats pretty cool. it sort of bothers me to see the top left and bottom left are just... tar | ||
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dyren
United States260 Posts
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Nightmarjoo
United States3360 Posts
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Husky
United States3362 Posts
btw i really like this map so far, most people dont want to take the extra effort to make a good 3 player map work. | ||
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Nightmarjoo
United States3360 Posts
![[image loading]](http://www.panschk.de/mappage/pics/3991.jpg) http://www.panschk.de/mappage/(2)Rhine(n).scx http://www.panschk.de/mappage/(2)Rhine(o).scx The map is based on the theme "Decimated Earth". I addressed the theme visually and through some slight gameplay modifications. Most of the visual touches to the theme are in my use of doodads. On the edges of cliffs are small facilities, power plant looking things, radars, buildings that could house troops, civillians, or administraters. Often these are nearby to or mixed in with rocks and trees. Both that this was a natural world not entirely settled or cultivated, and that the flora grew into and around the abandoned structures. The map is mostly natural looking, with the outpost areas at 3/9 being the major exceptions. These areas are annexed sections of land plentiful with resources, walled off to keep out enemies and/or indigenous fauna. The bridges of course are also man-made, to make the area more accessible, making it easier and quicker to maneuver through. Were these bridges and roads used for innocent travel? Military conquest? Supply lines to support a growing and distant military? The relative multitued of critters, particularly in the walled-off annex further suggest that it has been some time since the humans abandoned this location; nature is replacing the old settlements with the fauna and flora that occupied it prior to human settlement and conquest. The modifications to gameplay include the addition of 250-value mineral blocks at all bases; two in the mains and one at each expansion (including the nats). These excess minerals however have their values taken away from other blocks at the expansion. Thus, while the main has 11 mineral blocks, it has the same actual total mineral count as a main with 9 normal blocks (the standard), and this is true for all bases. The implication on gameplay is that if you have the worker count to exploit it, you will get more minerals quicker, getting boosts in minerals you wouldn't normally get, but that your expansions will run out slightly sooner. In particular, the addition of two such blocks in the main potentially support/encourage the use of 1base oriented builds (as opposed to fast expansion builds). The gas is not touched at all. Thematically, this could be the result of previous settlements mining away those mineral blocks, or perhaps mining attempts resulted in the breaking away of sections of minerals off of the larger blocks. Or perhaps, it has been so long since humans disturbed the area that new mineral formations have had the time to form. Null tiles prevent (or should, atleast, haven't tested it) pathing issues with the khyadrin crystals. The neutral block at 3/9 consists of 3 stacked power generators. The broken cliffs (as well as the outpost cliff) serve as ovy spots. For zerg, this multitued of safe locations to place overlords is convenient and helps make the map comfortable, and it also somewhat alleviates the difficulties even-paths place on scouting (with zerglings). Every expansion is cliffable in some manner, the nat and corner expansion from the ice, and the central expansions by the outpost. Most notably, the ice that cliffs the nat is reachable by land. This ice however also makes incoming drops (or mutalisks) to the nat easier to spot and defend against. No single expansion obviously defends another. This has two effects, especially in conjunction to the high harass potential created by the cliffs players will probably have to devote more time and/or resources to defense (for new bases), and players are also fairly free to choose between which expansion they wish to take at which time. There is no obvious choice in expansion (after the natural, naturally) order. This helps keep the expo layout fairly fluid and prevents games from being identical to eachother, increasing the variety in games on the map, and thus increasing entropy making the universe happy. The ice paths could easily be used for both harass and army movement, particularly if you decided to expo along that path. | ||
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Impervious
Canada4212 Posts
There is a lot of geysers for a 2 player map. There are also a lot of fairly tight corridors (not really tight, but tight enough). Lurker/Defiler usage in the end game will absolutely destroy a bio Terran (similar to how it already does on Destination). I think you need to find a way to make one of the expansions relatively easy to defend (ideally, the 3rd expansion location), yet not have a geyser in it. That should help counter it. As a Zerg player, I think the map is a little too friendly for me when I face T. In ZvP, this will also help reduce the number of corsairs/templar the opponent has, which will make it easier. Tight spaces make it difficult to flank, and it makes it difficult to storm dodge, among other things. Although I like to have a lot of gas in this MU, if my opponent gets 4 relatively easy gas, it causes me more problems than it helps. It looks like it will play out like Destination, yet it looks a little tougher to defend your nat, but easier to advance through the middle. I like it. | ||
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Vlanitak
Norway3045 Posts
![[image loading]](http://i212.photobucket.com/albums/cc155/vlanitak/Archaeology-1.jpg) http://rapidshare.com/files/338333329/_2_Archaeology0.92_o_.scx.html comments appreciated (if Husky doesn't want them in this thread then please pm me with them) Edit: added a mineral only expo, some more temples will add an Observer DL as soon as I have tested it | ||
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Zack1900
United States211 Posts
Decimated Earth theme This map's play will change significantly when the buildings are destroyed (double stacked for a total of 4000 Hp at each building). The nateral choke takes one rax and one depot to wall with your units spawning inside. ![[image loading]](http://www.panschk.de/mappage/pics/3990.jpg) Download Melee Observer the full details are at http://www.panschk.de/mappage/comments.php?mapid=3990 | ||
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Nightmarjoo
United States3360 Posts
On January 18 2010 16:28 lMPERVlOUS wrote: I have one comment, which I was going to post on BWM.net. This is coming from a Zerg perspective..... There is a lot of geysers for a 2 player map. There are also a lot of fairly tight corridors (not really tight, but tight enough). Lurker/Defiler usage in the end game will absolutely destroy a bio Terran (similar to how it already does on Destination). I think you need to find a way to make one of the expansions relatively easy to defend (ideally, the 3rd expansion location), yet not have a geyser in it. That should help counter it. As a Zerg player, I think the map is a little too friendly for me when I face T. In ZvP, this will also help reduce the number of corsairs/templar the opponent has, which will make it easier. Tight spaces make it difficult to flank, and it makes it difficult to storm dodge, among other things. Although I like to have a lot of gas in this MU, if my opponent gets 4 relatively easy gas, it causes me more problems than it helps. It looks like it will play out like Destination, yet it looks a little tougher to defend your nat, but easier to advance through the middle. I like it. Thanks for your comments. However, I disagree. The map has the same gas count as peaks of baekdu but isn't as tight, and if I recall correctly that map was relatively balanced. Obviously there're a lot of differences between two maps and to say that mine is balanced from having a few similiarities to a balanced map is a bit of a stretch. If the map supports mech (I believe terran can ling-tight wall with depot/rax in their mains), that's fine with me. However I think bio should be viable through the game even as it is. It is on desti, and you've correctly described the similarities and differences with desti. The cliffs can be used for tank drops and defense for terran (as well as for lurker drops for z). I think t has plenty of options even while going bio. I really don't like mineral only expansions, especially not just for the sake of having one. The min only in bluestorm is a good one (though if the nat choke was not tight and pathing-altering, it would require gas), desti and andro's min only is good, matchpoint's is bad imo, the min only in blitzx is good. Not only do I not believe the map needs a safe min only, I don't see any way I could change the map to include one without butchering it. I mean if I thought I needed one, I could potentially put one outside the nat and reduce the river a bit, but like I said I don't feel it's necessary or even helpful. | ||
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dyren
United States260 Posts
Here's a tiny but meaningful update... though there is real balancing to do still. I (thank god) haven't started any doodads. I will take care of that once the terrain is complete/situated/proper. Added Outsider style expos around 7 and 11 that can be taken from either side.. they also have 2 low mineral patches which can be mined out (250 and 100) and then a single mineral (value:20) on each side of the line allowing probe/drone/scv scouting. I literally JUST realized that the third is a little more closed off now than I would like.. will have to work on a solution to that. Maybe instead of 250 and 100 value minerals I can lower those to be mined out in a reasonable amount of time with 2 or 3 workers to allow a narrow but usable back entrance to the third. Suggestions welcome. I added some decorative terrain like mud, rocks, and sand. Filled out the missing expos (except 3 o clock.. which requires a lot of shifting of the two right side bases to accommodate the double-sided expo that belongs there. Tweaked minerals and especially vespene geyser placement. Also added up-ramps.. and scrambled together a "side" ramp for the middle area (really needs improvement.. quite blocky.. but functional.) Please continue to post suggestions as outside input is essential for improving this map. What should I do with the tar areas? Low-incentive island expos? Ramped expo? Looking at Moon Glaive I note the presence of dead zones top left, top right, and to a lesser extent bottom left and bottom right. This is interesting as the locations of the mains are top-middle, bottom-left, and bottom-right. I notice that the two lower expansions are moved up away from the bottom of the map by a small amount helping to distribute this "dead" space between the aforementioned areas. Outsider deals with the issue differently although it has a similar feel. The left side main is up against the left edge of the map while the two remaining mains are not smushed into the other corners but rather positioned away from the right side of the map a bit. All this plus well shaped and balanced but different mains contributes to the success of the perimeter expansions idea in Outsider. I notice the "dead" space is located in between the center area of the map and the outer ring @ 3 o clock, 8 o clock, and 10 o clock. In my map I wanted to do something more like Moon Glaive with larger dead zones adjacent to the main which is in the "center" of one of the map edges (as opposed to a main "in the corner.") Clearly I need to work on positioning of the two mains which occupy "corner" positions. Download the Alpha v1.1 ![[image loading]](http://imgur.com/393EK.jpg) | ||
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konadora
Singapore66358 Posts
Will be back with a map in a week or so hehe. | ||
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Husky
United States3362 Posts
I'll be answering questions and replying to each of the maps sometime later in the week (3:30 am and havent slept in two days...) Huge thanks to everyone who's participating though! | ||
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Nightmarjoo
United States3360 Posts
![[image loading]](http://i101.photobucket.com/albums/m68/Nightmarjoo/2Rhine.jpg) Edited map -> 1.1: Removed neutral crystals as permament wall and replaced with tiles that look slightly less out of place. Removed neutral block at 3/9 and tripled size of entrance (to 6 tiles tall) to make moving armies through the ice path more viable (and thus to encourage such movement). Edited the chokes for 3/9 and the expansions by the mains to make walling off easier (possible). Moved main formations 2 tiles away from map edge behind it to make building supply depots easier. Redistributed missing mineral values more evenly among the main minerals. Have some replays (of the older version and/or on intermediate versions) uploaded in the thread on bwm, a few zvts atm. http://www.panschk.de/mappage/comments.php?mapid=3991 | ||
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MorroW
Sweden3522 Posts
Name: Huskyland Scenario: Twilight Map size: 128x128 Players: 4 Description: Standard map with 8 temples on the map (each one stacked 10 times). Behind the second temple on the right side of the ramp is unbuildable ground. 9 Minerals in main, 7 at natural, 5 at mineral only and 6 minerals at the 3rd gas. Each position can be walled off with 1rax1fac or in TvP by 1rax1supply (just like byzantium3) Overlord spots by the side of the bridges on the high ground. ![[image loading]](http://www.panschk.de/mappage/pics/3980.jpg) Map made by MorroW gl gg everyone ) ill try get some of my friends to play a couple of games at it, btw i hope u can get higher prices on this thing~~ | ||
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