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I offered to coach yesterday if any were interested and could help me avoid the hassle of putting money onto full tilt's site; people suggested that I make a rep pack to go along with ranks and accomplishments, so I played some games on iccup yesterday and today: [url blocked] Account: this
A couple of days ago I started using a new strat in pvp and pvt, but I still have kinks to iron out in them, but there is a lot of room for error in pvt versus most people - so it's good enough. In the next couple of days I will further iron out things and probably have a pvp rep pack. I can help people in tvp and play it well, but I don't enjoy playing it, nor do I have tvp reps on my comp (deleted 99% of my reps a month ago). But, if any are interested in tvp help and would like to see some reps, I can also make a tvp rep pack.
Analyzing losses: there was a pvt game where I got 8 raxed -- I fended it off -- and the game was over in my mind, so all I could think about is why is he wasting my time, but while I was mentally done with the game, he floated his rax's in my base and I gave him a win. A couple of games later someone tried the same thing, and I played the game out instead of moping = win.
There was 1 TVZ loss -- the pivotal moment in the game was when I thought I could suicide 3 marines and it wouldn't be a big deal, but while I did that, he sent an overlord into my base and I only had 1 rine in my base so I couldn't kill it before it scouted my starport; it completely changed the outcome of the game, as he diverted from his plans to go mutas and went scourges into a hydra transition as he expected a wraith or a drop ship. I went from having the counter to his bo, to wasting money on turrets and being set behind eco wise. Good play from him I thought, to boot.
When it comes to helping someone, it's not a matter of if you are gosu, but rather if you are better than them. If there are any players below b- (figure b- players are on the right track already) looking to improve and understand why you are losing games, and what you could have done better -- if you would like me to help you, just pm me sometime.
I can help in tvz, tvp, pvt and very recently I have switched to pvp (B level). There is no shortcut to getting a rank that is perceived as "high," ie., you still need to have good macro/micro, but good strategy and understanding of the game can at least bump you up a rank or two.
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I watched 7 of them. You all in or do strange bo's every game. Posting a rep pack of you cheesing newbies on Python doesn't prove anything...
heres what you do. Go get B+. Make Rep pack. Play standard every game. Come back here. Post it.
But don't ask people to pay you for lessons when this is the only evidence of "skill" you're going to provide.
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how about posting your whole TSL replay pack or posting us B+ games
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playa loses to G5's offrace, I will forever be disappoint. top 16 usa should not lose to other top 16 offrace imo. 
at least now I know how to counter that faggy fast DT into fast recall gayness teehee... :D
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Surprised Nazgul hasn't organized any sort of approved TL bw coaches with TL getting a % of all payments.
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Lol, G5 used to be a terran player. Good players can compete with other top players and even beat them with their offrace, especially when they already play the opposite side of the mu. It's hardly a big deal. It's not like you forget how to macro/micro, and at this stage in the game most people know most mu's well.
I posted a standard game versus mondragon yesterday (is on a site due to being a wgt game). I used to play standard every game and every matchup but pvt. Calling me cheesy means you are lacking an understanding of the game. The premise of my bo's is to not lose to either side of the spectrum of play: fastest rush possible or fastest expo bo's. I haven't bunker rushed anyone. I haven't double gated anyone. People call anything cheese these days.
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That's why 5 vultures killed you on heartbreak ridge? lol :\
Edit: I forgot you weren't takin me seriously, my bad.
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Kennigit
Canada19447 Posts
I think the point people are making is that if you are offering training services, they would like to see a wide range of games that show your ability to manage a game...so that you can pass on that knowledge. If "people call anything cheese these days" then maybe you are in fact out of touch with the current nature of high level play as was suggested.
I think you would shut everyone up if you just played iccup for a season, hit B+ and posted the whole rep pack. Posting 1 game vs mondi doesn't say anything.
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United States10774 Posts
this machinehead guy is really funny
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I don't think calling
gate in nat zeal rush on python into forge + dt
"cheese" is really going too far at all.
Even if the replay pack was you destroying B-teamers, the way you're doing it wouldnt prove that you were capable of helping anyone get better.
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A terran that was A last season that I got the privilege to cheese during tsl.... http://www.repdepot.net/replay.php?id=28362
When you're aiming to teach d--c+ players, I didn't realize you needed to prove you could beat Flash, Bisu and Jaedong. Not only that, but you need to prove you can beat them using 1 particular strategy. Like I wouldn't even charge a lot... you guys are crazy.
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WoW these games are really amazing... what are your rates???
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Nobody ever said about beating top gamers.
They all just suggested that showing strong mechanics (which most people would like to improve) would help persuade prospective trainees to buy your services.
To put into extremely exaggerated terms like your own, a D- beating a A who went 14 cc with 4 pool doesn't show the D-'s skill level, or strong mechanics; he just cheesed the fuck out of the A.
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But. I. Don't. Want. To. Watch. You. Cheese. People.
You. Don't. Need. To. Beat. Jaedong.
Fuck, raping a C+ (or thereabouts) Terran like me straight up would be enough.
And for the last time, noone cares if you can beat an A terran with cheese. You must be so out of touch with the modern game to think that cheesing somebody equates to skill on your part.
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You need to prove that you have a very good knowledge of the fundamentals and standard play to teach anyone any game. Posting non-standard games does nothing to prove your knowledge of the game. When people are starting to learn something it is absolutely critical that they learn solid fundamentals before anything else. So if you want to establish a reputation for being a good teacher then you need to post proof of your knowledge of the fundamentals and standard play.
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Me cheesing jf in 2006 with a variation of the flash bo... [url blocked]
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WoW that game is really amazing... what are your rates???
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United States10774 Posts
LOL this guy cannot be real
what the fuck hahahah
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On January 08 2010 08:39 machinehead.. wrote:I offered to coach yesterday if any were interested and could help me avoid the hassle of putting money onto full tilt's site; people suggested that I make a rep pack to go along with ranks and accomplishments, so I played some games on iccup yesterday and today: [url blocked] Account: thisA couple of days ago I started using a new strat in pvp and pvt, but I still have kinks to iron out in them, but there is a lot of room for error in pvt versus most people - so it's good enough. In the next couple of days I will further iron out things and probably have a pvp rep pack. I can help people in tvp and play it well, but I don't enjoy playing it, nor do I have tvp reps on my comp (deleted 99% of my reps a month ago). But, if any are interested in tvp help and would like to see some reps, I can also make a tvp rep pack. Analyzing losses: there was a pvt game where I got 8 raxed -- I fended it off -- and the game was over in my mind, so all I could think about is why is he wasting my time, but while I was mentally done with the game, he floated his rax's in my base and I gave him a win. A couple of games later someone tried the same thing, and I played the game out instead of moping = win. There was 1 TVZ loss -- the pivotal moment in the game was when I thought I could suicide 3 marines and it wouldn't be a big deal, but while I did that, he sent an overlord into my base and I only had 1 rine in my base so I couldn't kill it before it scouted my starport; it completely changed the outcome of the game, as he diverted from his plans to go mutas and went scourges into a hydra transition as he expected a wraith or a drop ship. I went from having the counter to his bo, to wasting money on turrets and being set behind eco wise. Good play from him I thought, to boot. When it comes to helping someone, it's not a matter of if you are gosu, but rather if you are better than them. If there are any players below b- (figure b- players are on the right track already) looking to improve and understand why you are losing games, and what you could have done better -- if you would like me to help you, just pm me sometime. I can help in tvz, tvp, pvt and very recently I have switched to pvp (B level). There is no shortcut to getting a rank that is perceived as "high," ie., you still need to have good macro/micro, but good strategy and understanding of the game can at least bump you up a rank or two.
Hey thanks for the replays!
I can never have enough :D!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Gl with your teaching although it doesnt seem like you will find many pupils here :/
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Wow, you are very good at cheesing. Have you cheesed Idra before? If yes, please post the replay.
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nah this guys a troll. theres no way.
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On January 08 2010 10:53 machinehead.. wrote:
Me cheesing jf in 2006 with a variation of the flash bo... [url blocked]
Lee Young Ho name drop ++++++10 points... keep em coming.
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how do you cheese with a variation of the flash bo btw
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On January 08 2010 10:56 OneOther wrote:
LOL this guy cannot be real
what the fuck hahahah
plz post again repeating yourself
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Pretty sure he was being sarcastic. I don't care enough to actually check though.
Also, who cares about games you played in 2006.
Why don't you just man up and post your TSL rep pack. Problem solved.
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On January 08 2010 11:09 alexpnd wrote:Show nested quote +On January 08 2010 10:53 machinehead.. wrote:
Me cheesing jf in 2006 with a variation of the flash bo... [url blocked]
Lee Young Ho name drop ++++++10 points... keep em coming.
Wow, this guy's a genius. He came up with Flash's BO before Flash did. Flash probably stole it from him.
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On January 08 2010 11:07 LunarDestiny wrote:
Wow, you are very good at cheesing. Have you cheesed Idra before? If yes, please post the replay.
Haha good idea.
A better idea would be to read people's comments before blindly posting more replays.
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Can someone please IP check this guy? And what other tl member has/had the same IP as him.
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Guys, I deleted my replays like a month ago... I only know of 2 replays due to them being uploaded on sites... I have a standard 30 min game against mondragon (went 2-2 against) and a standard game versus jf and the joke is I'm not qualified to teach d through c+ players, despite having qualified for regionals even a year after I started playing... You guys should do ads for abortion clinics...
Personally, Idra is a million times better than me, so if I wanted teaching, I'd go to him, even though he isn't flash (yet). The concept of if someone is better than you then they can help you isn't hard to grasp. In fact I think an infant could.
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United States10774 Posts
On January 08 2010 11:13 Ganfei wrote:Show nested quote +On January 08 2010 10:56 OneOther wrote:
LOL this guy cannot be real
what the fuck hahahah plz post again repeating yourself
i was going to if he posted another replay with "me cheesing JF X and Y" after three consecutive posts telling him to upload standard plays and why he should
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i think i know this guy, hes legit
and he always was a macro whore if anything, i really wish he plays more this season and posts more replays to prove you guys wrong
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On January 08 2010 10:38 IdrA wrote:
are you real?
gogo post your replay pack... or a few. Give us lower level players something to really study.
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100% of the replays posted are on Python, I think this is a troll.
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If you don't want to take the time to get up to B+ just so that you can prove shit, why don't you play some better known players who are also around B+, play standard and then post the replays win or lose.?
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its pretty clear you guys didnt even attempt to watch his replay pack if you are telling him to post standard games. ive watched a couple of replays in his replaypack and his pvt games are pretty good. sure, he does the same BO over and over with dts but many of the games still go on to late macro games. none of the ones ive watched so far are cheesing, pretty much straight up macro games and its pretty good - maybe not top notch A level or something but someone whos C level and lower can definitely learn from them.
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United States2186 Posts
On January 08 2010 12:20 lFrostmourne wrote:
its pretty clear you guys didnt even attempt to watch his replay pack if you are telling him to post standard games. ive watched a couple of replays in his replaypack and his pvt games are pretty good. sure, he does the same BO over and over with dts but many of the games still go on to late macro games. none of the ones ive watched so far are cheesing, pretty much straight up macro games and its pretty good - maybe not top notch A level or something but someone whos C level and lower can definitely learn from them.
His TvZ games involve him noob bashing foreigners on Python with a build that auto loses to 2 hatch muta and is just terrible overall. No this is not helpful for any player of any level unless they deliberately want to learn the wrong things.
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I think now machinehead should probably lay low for about a year or ten.
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any chance you can stream your cheeses ?
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On January 08 2010 12:46 Pang0lin wrote:
any chance you can stream your cheeses ?
To truly prove you're good enough to offer lessons, you have to stream for a month. Go!
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K.
after seeing this guy do this bs, I'm gonna offer MY help. I'm a B high Terran, B- high random user, I'm not going to say I'm B+/A-, because I can't beat those players straight up more then 20-30% of the time. I have to cheese etc. I'll help out anyone who needs my help, for free, no questions asked. I'm 100% sure I'd do better then MachineHead too.
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just pm me, and we'll set something up.
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On January 08 2010 13:07 ZZangDreamjOy wrote:just pm me, and we'll set something up.
<3 if not trolling
D; if troll
... D; D; D; D; D; D; D; D; D; <3 D; <3 D;
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On January 08 2010 08:39 machinehead.. wrote:
There was 1 TVZ loss -- the pivotal moment in the game was when I thought I could suicide 3 marines and it wouldn't be a big deal, but while I did that, he sent an overlord into my base and I only had 1 rine in my base so I couldn't kill it before it scouted my starport; it completely changed the outcome of the game, as he diverted from his plans to go mutas and went scourges into a hydra transition as he expected a wraith or a drop ship. I went from having the counter to his bo, to wasting money on turrets and being set behind eco wise. Good play from him I thought, to boot.
Haha thanks, I knew I had seen your name somewhere before.
I don't quite understand why all of you want him to prove that he is some mechanical monster in order to teach other to get better. IMO people who have crappy mechanics but win through thinking and doing the right things would have more to teach a newbie/bad player than a mechanical player.
I don't know if machinehead is such a player, and I haven't watched any of the other replays. But beeing B+ with shit mechanics plaing at least one terran MU would actually be pretty impressive in my book.
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Korea (South)11583 Posts
On January 08 2010 13:07 ZZangDreamjOy wrote:just pm me, and we'll set something up.
if your serious i'll take you up on that, if not then T_T
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Korea (South)11583 Posts
On January 08 2010 11:40 machinehead.. wrote:
Guys, I deleted my replays like a month ago... I only know of 2 replays due to them being uploaded on sites... I have a standard 30 min game against mondragon (went 2-2 against) and a standard game versus jf and the joke is I'm not qualified to teach d through c+ players, despite having qualified for regionals even a year after I started playing... You guys should do ads for abortion clinics...
Personally, Idra is a million times better than me, so if I wanted teaching, I'd go to him, even though he isn't flash (yet). The concept of if someone is better than you then they can help you isn't hard to grasp. In fact I think an infant could.
I qualfiied for regionals when I was just 13 years old when I was playing 3v3 NR20 on USEast , in 2003. I ended up making it to the final 6 there, in WCG in Virginia.
Wanna know how? Only 2 people showed up the 2nd qualifiers so I advanced to regionals, and 4 qualify, making only 6 people advancing out of possible 8.
I'll teach you how to be awesome like me for $5/hr if you want!
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On January 08 2010 13:58 CaucasianAsian wrote:Show nested quote +On January 08 2010 13:07 ZZangDreamjOy wrote:just pm me, and we'll set something up. if your serious i'll take you up on that, if not then T_T
I'm 100% serious. At the moment my windows 7 freezes with my BW, when I paly games, but I can watch replays/windows mdoe easily, and I feel like helping people out. . Just pm me.
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I wish I had a time machine so I could live in a world where eugenics took place. Truly sad stuff. You guys are busy boasting about who is the bigger idiot when all along my "selling point" was that I no longer play standard (besides I play somewhat standard in tvp) so I could be of more use to the players that were in my target range D through C+. I know it's rocket science, but standard play comes down to good macro/micro. So I guess I could keep teaching someone to macro and micro like a god, or I could teach them different strategies that would give them an edge, since there is an edge when the other person isn't familiar with your play.
I have knowledge of standard play. Anyone who is above b- could have a target range of d t through c+ to teach. I hope your offspring will be born with a brain, it would be tragic if it was hereditary.
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On January 08 2010 13:06 ZZangDreamjOy wrote:
K.
after seeing this guy do this bs, I'm gonna offer MY help. I'm a B high Terran, B- high random user, I'm not going to say I'm B+/A-, because I can't beat those players straight up more then 20-30% of the time. I have to cheese etc. I'll help out anyone who needs my help, for free, no questions asked. I'm 100% sure I'd do better then MachineHead too.
i kind of know who you are lol
nowhere close to the OP skillwise
gl teaching though but wouldnt you want to make your own thread instead of attention whoring here?
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While it may be disheartening to have so many people calling out your ability to coach others, your constant insults and your holier than thou attitude are not going to convince anyone to ask for your help. I would be interested, but I don't feel like being berated because I don't have a "brain" while I play.
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Listen, I don't join teams cause I don't see the point and I don't like 99% of the people in the SC community. The last thing I would want is to make friends with most of the "good" players in the US. If you act like an idiot -- I don't have a reason to care for your existence. If you are a reasonable person who isn't a d-bag (not a hard thing to do), then I have no problems with you and I would be the opposite of rude to you. It's not my call, it's a reflection of how you act. People will get treated how they deserve.
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Then I guess you're only getting what you deserve here...
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My motto is not a reflection of bandwagon tools.
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I picked a random PvT and at some point you had a total of 5 gates. Okay, no big deal. But you also had 5 nexus... you kept wasting money on cannons and pylons! your opening looked like a forge fe vs zerg LOL. I'm sorry I cannot take this thread seriously now.
edit: oh and in that same game you make a cannon at your nat so you can expand and then go dt drop. After doing nothing with the dts he goes harass again but with reavers this time :D
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Korea (South)11583 Posts
On January 08 2010 14:42 machinehead.. wrote:
Listen, I don't join teams cause I don't see the point and I don't like 99% of the people in the SC community. The last thing I would want is to make friends with most of the "good" players in the US. If you act like an idiot -- I don't have a reason to care for your existence. If you are a reasonable person who isn't a d-bag (not a hard thing to do), then I have no problems with you and I would be the opposite of rude to you. It's not my call, it's a reflection of how you act. People will get treated how they deserve.
I'm sorry but you sound like an egotistical bastard. If you keep going about how amazing you are and that you can teach people for a price (which you have never stated) then go for it. But you are going a about it the wrong way. Saying you have beaten top players (by cheesing) isn't the way to do it.
If you want to teach people, then teach people what they want to learn. People want to learn the fundamentals of starcraft, good macro, good micro, the right timings, etc... Which iNControl can teach very well, because he plays what people call 'standard' very very well. You on the other hand, don't seem to grasp the fundamentals that people want to learn. Until you can prove that you have such skills, I can assure you that you won't get anyone who wants to learn from you. Everyone can learn how to cheese, but they aren't getting any better at the game, which is what they WANT to do.
They don't want to learn how to beat someone good by a surprise build, they want to learn how to beat them good straight up. They want to walk over their peers with superior knowledge of the game, amazing macro and breathtaking micro. They don't want to do some cheesey build that will get them a nice looking letter.
For your own sake, prove that you have the knowledge of the game that people will pay for. Not some cheese builds, as they can just watch TT1's replay pack for that!
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not to be a dick but why would anyone want a rep from 2006.
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Korea (South)11583 Posts
On January 08 2010 14:52 Sadist wrote:
not to be a dick but why would anyone want a rep from 2006.
corrupt replays are fun!
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I swear most of you have the reading comprehension of a 2 year old. Yes, can't read at all. I was saying I was cheesing in the reps I uploaded in a sarcastic tone, because someone kept saying I was cheesing in all my games, "u went 1 gate forge in a pvt." I made a freaking cannon at my natural. Bisu must be cheesing hard in pvz... I mean it just baffles me how people can be of this caliber.
Again, yesterday I uploaded a replay versus mondragon -- it was as standard as humanly possible. Today I uploaded a game versus JF when I went fast armory play... again, standard (for me it was then, and now it is in today's game)
D through C+ players can watch pro games for standard play. It's pretty obvious what to do... they just haven't mastered macro and micro. My selling point is I have gotten away from standard play. Not playing standard is not a bad thing, and it doesn't mean you are a cheesy noob that can't play standard. Preference is a word, perhaps some have an understanding of it.
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On January 08 2010 14:52 Sadist wrote:
not to be a dick but why would anyone want a rep from 2006.
Not to be a dick, but I know that you know I hate your friend who is the most annoying person I've ever had the chance to encounter. But really when I have 2 replays to show due to being uploaded on sites, and people are demanding standard games... it kinda makes sense. I guess beating players like mondragon and jf then doesn't equate to c+ skill now. You guys shouldn't think, you aren't capable of it.
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On January 08 2010 14:55 machinehead.. wrote:
I swear most of you have the reading comprehension of a 2 year old. Yes, can't read at all. I was saying I was cheesing in the reps I uploaded in a sarcastic tone, because someone kept saying I was cheesing in all my games, "u went 1 gate forge in a pvt." I made a freaking cannon at my natural. Bisu must be cheesing hard in pvz... I mean it just baffles me how people can be of this caliber
Nonono... I didn't say you cheesed... read again. I said it was really lame... because we are not talking about pvz yo, it's pvt. If you get lucky you would only get FD'ed because most terrans at that level just 2 fac every single game. Your build loses to everything. If you want an early economy go 13 nexus not some forge shit.
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On January 08 2010 14:58 machinehead.. wrote:Show nested quote +On January 08 2010 14:52 Sadist wrote:
not to be a dick but why would anyone want a rep from 2006. Not to be a dick, but I know that you know I hate your friend who is the most annoying person I've ever had the chance to encounter. But really when I have 2 replays to show due to being uploaded on sites, and people are demanding standard games... it kinda makes sense. I guess beating players like mondragon and jf then doesn't equate to c+ skill now. You guys shouldn't think, you aren't capable of it.
what the hell are you talking about.
Im just saying who the hell cares about games vs JF 3-4 years ago. JF wasnt even JF then if i remember correctly. its like me posting replays vs sea when he was 12 years old.
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On January 08 2010 14:59 WeSt wrote:Show nested quote +On January 08 2010 14:55 machinehead.. wrote:
I swear most of you have the reading comprehension of a 2 year old. Yes, can't read at all. I was saying I was cheesing in the reps I uploaded in a sarcastic tone, because someone kept saying I was cheesing in all my games, "u went 1 gate forge in a pvt." I made a freaking cannon at my natural. Bisu must be cheesing hard in pvz... I mean it just baffles me how people can be of this caliber Nonono... I didn't say you cheesed... read again. I said it was really lame... because we are not talking about pvz yo, it's pvt. If you get lucky you would only get FD'ed because most terrans at that level just 2 fac every single game. Your build loses to everything. If you want an early economy go 13 nexus not some forge shit.
I just played 12 or so games at that level and the only thing I lost to was an 8 rax that I stopped... Any build can work if the player is that much more skilled than you, but dts and cannons aren't a bad spot to be in versus 2 fac. I see you have a zerg icon, but I'm assuming you also play pvt -- I would like to know your skill level. If it is better than me, then I'll consider it and hope you show me some replays (sincerely).
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On January 08 2010 15:06 Sadist wrote:Show nested quote +On January 08 2010 14:58 machinehead.. wrote:On January 08 2010 14:52 Sadist wrote:
not to be a dick but why would anyone want a rep from 2006. Not to be a dick, but I know that you know I hate your friend who is the most annoying person I've ever had the chance to encounter. But really when I have 2 replays to show due to being uploaded on sites, and people are demanding standard games... it kinda makes sense. I guess beating players like mondragon and jf then doesn't equate to c+ skill now. You guys shouldn't think, you aren't capable of it. what the hell are you talking about. Im just saying who the hell cares about games vs JF 3-4 years ago. JF wasnt even JF then if i remember correctly. its like me posting replays vs sea when he was 12 years old.
Combine that with the fact that I was B+ last season and you're basically lacking a point. The build I used versus Mondragon is the same one that is used today. The bo I used versus jf was a close variation to what Flash was using a year ago. It's not like it was some bizzare outdated stuff. Stuff that people could copy today and have success. I even posted a replay versus an A rank korean from last season. I mean you guys come off as desperate. I don't even care if anyone ends up wanting to be coached. It's not a big deal to me, it's simply something I could obviously do for d through c+ players... If you started a thread stating you could teach d through c+ players, what would be outrageous about it if you are above c+?
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On January 08 2010 15:12 machinehead.. wrote:Show nested quote +On January 08 2010 15:06 Sadist wrote:On January 08 2010 14:58 machinehead.. wrote:On January 08 2010 14:52 Sadist wrote:
not to be a dick but why would anyone want a rep from 2006. Not to be a dick, but I know that you know I hate your friend who is the most annoying person I've ever had the chance to encounter. But really when I have 2 replays to show due to being uploaded on sites, and people are demanding standard games... it kinda makes sense. I guess beating players like mondragon and jf then doesn't equate to c+ skill now. You guys shouldn't think, you aren't capable of it. what the hell are you talking about. Im just saying who the hell cares about games vs JF 3-4 years ago. JF wasnt even JF then if i remember correctly. its like me posting replays vs sea when he was 12 years old. Combine that with the fact that I was B+ last season and you're basically lacking a point. The build I used versus Mondragon is the same one that is used today. The bo I used versus jf was a close variation to what Flash was using a year ago. It's not like it was some bizzare outdated stuff. Stuff that people could copy today and have success. I even posted a replay versus an A rank korean from last season. I mean you guys come off as desperate. I don't even care if anyone ends up wanting to be coached. It's not a big deal to me, it's simply something I could obviously do for d through c+ players... If you started a thread stating you could teach d through c+ players, what would be outrageous about it if you are above c+?
hey do what you gotta do, Im not criticizing you on wanting to coach people. Im just saying its not a big deal that you beat JF or Mondragon in games that occurred several years ago. I dont know how good you are or whatever and am not nearly as critical as some people here.
For what its worth I completely disagree with a majority of people on this site who seem to have this idea that ranks are incredibly hard and accurate measurement of skill. That somehow a C+ player is better than a C player. Or that B+ > B. All you need to do is get lucky and win several games in a row and you can move up a rank. It also has a shitload to do with when/who you play.
But again. Do you =)
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On January 08 2010 15:12 machinehead.. wrote:Show nested quote +On January 08 2010 15:06 Sadist wrote:On January 08 2010 14:58 machinehead.. wrote:On January 08 2010 14:52 Sadist wrote:
not to be a dick but why would anyone want a rep from 2006. Not to be a dick, but I know that you know I hate your friend who is the most annoying person I've ever had the chance to encounter. But really when I have 2 replays to show due to being uploaded on sites, and people are demanding standard games... it kinda makes sense. I guess beating players like mondragon and jf then doesn't equate to c+ skill now. You guys shouldn't think, you aren't capable of it. what the hell are you talking about. Im just saying who the hell cares about games vs JF 3-4 years ago. JF wasnt even JF then if i remember correctly. its like me posting replays vs sea when he was 12 years old. Combine that with the fact that I was B+ last season and you're basically lacking a point. The build I used versus Mondragon is the same one that is used today. The bo I used versus jf was a close variation to what Flash was using a year ago. It's not like it was some bizzare outdated stuff. Stuff that people could copy today and have success. I even posted a replay versus an A rank korean from last season. I mean you guys come off as desperate. I don't even care if anyone ends up wanting to be coached. It's not a big deal to me, it's simply something I could obviously do for d through c+ players... If you started a thread stating you could teach d through c+ players, what would be outrageous about it if you are above c+?
The difference here is that your only going to teach people unorthodox things, and your advice might be terribly wrong. Hell, watching these replays, you don't play like a B+ at all. So I donnou. Offering to teach people for money when your not a good player is a terrible thing to do.
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On January 08 2010 15:12 machinehead.. wrote:Show nested quote +On January 08 2010 15:06 Sadist wrote:On January 08 2010 14:58 machinehead.. wrote:On January 08 2010 14:52 Sadist wrote:
not to be a dick but why would anyone want a rep from 2006. Not to be a dick, but I know that you know I hate your friend who is the most annoying person I've ever had the chance to encounter. But really when I have 2 replays to show due to being uploaded on sites, and people are demanding standard games... it kinda makes sense. I guess beating players like mondragon and jf then doesn't equate to c+ skill now. You guys shouldn't think, you aren't capable of it. what the hell are you talking about. Im just saying who the hell cares about games vs JF 3-4 years ago. JF wasnt even JF then if i remember correctly. its like me posting replays vs sea when he was 12 years old. Combine that with the fact that I was B+ last season and you're basically lacking a point. The build I used versus Mondragon is the same one that is used today. The bo I used versus jf was a close variation to what Flash was using a year ago. It's not like it was some bizzare outdated stuff. Stuff that people could copy today and have success. I even posted a replay versus an A rank korean from last season. I mean you guys come off as desperate. I don't even care if anyone ends up wanting to be coached. It's not a big deal to me, it's simply something I could obviously do for d through c+ players... If you started a thread stating you could teach d through c+ players, what would be outrageous about it if you are above c+?
Why are they desperate?
You are the one trying to advertise yourself as a good SC player, which would hopefully give you further credentials to coach.
He was arguing about how "JF wasn't JF" back then; not a top notch player. Not about the builds.
this thread has too many silly arguments and garbled lingua lol. i quit 
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Calgary25981 Posts
Are you saddles 1.1? I only read page 1 reading rest now.
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gogogo post replays in iccup against koreans only with standard play till B+. The problem is players here prefer to be paid instead of paying to play this game. Foreigners next most important step is to match those mechanics. A coach need those set of skills, mechanics then strategy.
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I'm not even trying to advertise myself as a good player. The only point is I can help people who are d through c+. Only thing that is really being implied is that I'm above c+.... Obvious things get made into a biggest dick contest, I don't get it. "You don't play like you are b+." It's a good thing I'm not offering to teach B players then...
Guys, I'm not interested in teaching standard play... D through C+ players should already know standard play... I can give pointers if they choose to play that way, but I would suggest other ways of playing.
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I dont understand why having good play has to mean being able to play standard well every single game. Being good can also mean that you use different build orders and strategies and can adapt well to changing situations within the game while making good decisions. you guys criticize unorthodox plays like early forge just because progamers don't do it. if strats like that can still win you games at a high rank, why wouldn't you do it?
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D-C+ players should know standard play?
most good foreigners dont know standard play
you sure as hell dont
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On January 08 2010 15:27 machinehead.. wrote:
I'm not even trying to advertise myself as a good player. The only point is I can help people who are d through c+. Only thing that is really being implied is that I'm above c+.... Obvious things get made into a biggest dick contest, I don't get it. "You don't play like you are b+." It's a good thing I'm not offering to teach B players then...
Guys, I'm not interested in teaching standard play... D through C+ players should already know standard play... I can give pointers if they choose to play that way, but I would suggest other ways of playing.
You seem to be implying that being 1 (or at most 2) ranks above someone qualifies you to be their teacher. I'm not sure that this is true. Teaching talent doesn't necessarily go hand in hand with knowledge, and furthermore, usually to teach a subject you are required to be quite a bit more than 2 ranks above your students in most cases. For instance, if you want to teach pre-calc you often need to have at least a Master's degree in Math, right? You can't teach Calc 1 because you're in Calc 3.
Now, sometimes you can tutor though. But again, in those cases it's not about the talent differential but about the fact that they are your peer who has already succeeded what you are at and has made the effort to become able to listen to people and help them help themselves. Usually they aren't so much professors or teachers as people who try to make you solve things yourself, but saving you some time when you're making big mistakes.
Now I'm not sure, based on your posts so far, that we can put you in either category (tutor or professor). Clearly, 2 ranks difference doesn't make you a professor (not to say anything of teaching talent, an issue not addressed at all). As far as being a tutor, we haven't seen anything of your methods or your intent to become helpful--you are advertising based on your skill level alone, which doesn't necessarily mean you will be a good tutor.
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If people watch vods and download replays, they know standard play. Their execution might make it seem that they don't. I haven't paid attention to standard play in a while, because I prefer to do my own thing. It's more enjoyable that way.
People seem to have the mentality of you can be taught perfect mechancis, when I feel it is something that comes down to repetition and should be fairly obvious but simply something that takes a lot of practice to obtain. Idra being the progamer that has achieved superb mechanics, perhaps he can shed light on it though.
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On January 08 2010 14:55 machinehead.. wrote:
I swear most of you have the reading comprehension of a 2 year old. Yes, can't read at all. I was saying I was cheesing in the reps I uploaded in a sarcastic tone, because someone kept saying I was cheesing in all my games, "u went 1 gate forge in a pvt." I made a freaking cannon at my natural. Bisu must be cheesing hard in pvz... I mean it just baffles me how people can be of this caliber.
Again, yesterday I uploaded a replay versus mondragon -- it was as standard as humanly possible. Today I uploaded a game versus JF when I went fast armory play... again, standard (for me it was then, and now it is in today's game)
D through C+ players can watch pro games for standard play. It's pretty obvious what to do... they just haven't mastered macro and micro. My selling point is I have gotten away from standard play. Not playing standard is not a bad thing, and it doesn't mean you are a cheesy noob that can't play standard. Preference is a word, perhaps some have an understanding of it.
Except for beginners, even when watching pro games for standard builds, some important things don't register to them while they are watching. And if noobs haven't mastered macro and micro, then obviously they need to work on macro and micro; how would playing non-standard help newer players at all.
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On January 08 2010 15:34 machinehead.. wrote:
People seem to have the mentality of you can be taught perfect mechancis, when I feel it is something that comes down to repetition and should be fairly obvious but simply something that takes a lot of practice to obtain. Idra being the progamer that has achieved superb mechanics, perhaps he can shed light on it though.
By that logic then there is absolutely nothing you can teach us.
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On January 08 2010 15:34 old times sake wrote:Show nested quote +On January 08 2010 15:27 machinehead.. wrote:
I'm not even trying to advertise myself as a good player. The only point is I can help people who are d through c+. Only thing that is really being implied is that I'm above c+.... Obvious things get made into a biggest dick contest, I don't get it. "You don't play like you are b+." It's a good thing I'm not offering to teach B players then...
Guys, I'm not interested in teaching standard play... D through C+ players should already know standard play... I can give pointers if they choose to play that way, but I would suggest other ways of playing. You seem to be implying that being 1 (or at most 2) ranks above someone qualifies you to be their teacher. I'm not sure that this is true. Teaching talent doesn't necessarily go hand in hand with knowledge, and furthermore, usually to teach a subject you are required to be quite a bit more than 2 ranks above your students in most cases. For instance, if you want to teach pre-calc you often need to have at least a Master's degree in Math, right? You can't teach Calc 1 because you're in Calc 3. Now, sometimes you can tutor though. But again, in those cases it's not about the talent differential but about the fact that they are your peer who has already succeeded what you are at and has made the effort to become able to listen to people and help them help themselves. Usually they aren't so much professors or teachers as people who try to make you solve things yourself, but saving you some time when you're making big mistakes. Now I'm not sure, based on your posts so far, that we can put you in either category (tutor or professor). Clearly, 2 ranks difference doesn't make you a professor (not to say anything of teaching talent, an issue not addressed at all). As far as being a tutor, we haven't seen anything of your methods or your intent to become helpful--you are advertising based on your skill level alone, which doesn't necessarily mean you will be a good tutor.
D through C then.... If someone has achieved ranks above you and they have inferior mechanics to you, that simply means you have more potential than them... and all the more reason to have them teach you the game, because obviously game knowledge is the only difference.
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On January 08 2010 15:34 machinehead.. wrote:
If people watch vods and download replays, they know standard play. Their execution might make it seem that they don't. I haven't paid attention to standard play in a while, because I prefer to do my own thing. It's more enjoyable that way.
People seem to have the mentality of you can be taught perfect mechancis, when I feel it is something that comes down to repetition and should be fairly obvious but simply something that takes a lot of practice to obtain. Idra being the progamer that has achieved superb mechanics, perhaps he can shed light on it though.
No, most foreigners don't know standard play. To be honest, even though I've gotten B/B+ (not bragging, so shut it), I myself had no understanding of true standard play. There's specific builds, placements, etc. It takes a while to get a hang of it, and practice until your mechanics and your builds are strong enough to deal with GOOD opponents.
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Machinehead, I think the problem is you think you're good or have something to offer by "teaching" unorthodox play. This thread is hilarious. Your selling point is that you have gotten away from standard play? And then you say that you can watch the pros to play standard and instead get trained by you to cheese/play 'strategical'/unorthodox? LOL?
It is the entire opposite. ANYONE can learn and execute a build order and get a BUILD ORDER WIN or a BUILD ORDER LOSS. You would not be teaching anyone anything by doing that, that is the entire damn point. No one wants to "learn" or be "taught" how to cheese or play unorthodox because it does not make you a better player. Those are build order wins/losses, anyone can execute them and get wins off of them.
Pretty much repeating most of the people with common sense in here, if you are going to teach you have to prove you have good mechanics/know the metagame/play standard and have a deep understanding of the game. Only then does "learning cheese/unorthodox play" even matter as a mix-up to your game and adding in ranges of builds. People want to learn to get better at the game skill-wise, not get a build order win/huge advantage from something like a DT opening in pvt over and over vs other weak players. Which is what you yourself have said you are offering to do.
You want to teach non-standard to D- through C+ level gamers. So you are offering people to learn how to get build order wins vs other weak games, rather than offering teaching services on improving a player's core game.
....
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Avilo I used to be in nex with you -- you are one of the worst players I know. I used to beat you in tvt repeatedly, despite not even being a tvt player, and all you could talk about is how you should teach me TVT cause I'm bad at it. You are not a smart guy.
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omggg I finally found in your last thread that you are endlesssorrows from WCG a while back. I thought you were a T player then because I'm pretty sure we PvTed. You're not quite as random then but the fact that you constantly seem to create new accounts make it so no one has a clue who you are. And when people don't know who you are and you say stuff like you are B+ (which I'm unsure of....) then they call BS.
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Calgary25981 Posts
BTW I don't understand why we look down at someone who plays cheesy. Seriously. Why is there this magical line of honorable and not? If it's because it's easy, then who is the fool for making the game harder than it could be?
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On January 08 2010 15:44 Chill wrote:
BTW I don't understand why we look down at someone who plays cheesy. Seriously. Why is there this magical line of honorable and not? If it's because it's easy, then who is the fool for making the game harder than it could be?
I'm not looking down at him. I commend people for doing things off the wall, etc. It makes this game fun. But really, he's trying to offer people training IN cheese, etc. For money. It's a sham.
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When I started going fast armory and academy in 2006, lots of people called me crazy and that it was dumb to not be making turrets -- then when flash did it, it became genius and everyone started playing like that. Few people think for themselves because it's easier to go with the flow.
Chill, it's nice to see you not troll me. Didn't think I would see the day, but it's a pleasant surprise. Kudos for that.
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People that say I'm cheesing simply don't understand the game, imho. If you want to say my pvt is "cheesy" as in it's gay... no doubt I pride myself on that -- as most good pvt players do. Cheese is something that is very risky... I'm not doing risky all-in strats... You guys are blind if you think that.
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On January 08 2010 15:50 machinehead.. wrote:
People that say I'm cheesing simply don't understand the game, imho. If you want to say my pvt is "cheesy" as in it's gay... no doubt I pride myself on that -- as most good pvt players do. Cheese is something that is very risky... I'm not doing risky all-in strats... You guys are blind if you think that.
Cheese, and All In are different things. Cheesing is usually something gay, annoying, unorthodox, but not all in. ALL IN means your doing something with no eco, a coinflip basically. Your attempting to teach people nothing that will help them become good gamers.
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The foundation of my recent strategies is simple: counter both extremes of the spectrum (8 rax/2gate and 14cc, etc), while being able to keep your eco ahead of theirs, or at least on par and to out skill/strategize them from there. What happens when a terran 14 cc's against zerg? The zerg usually loses unless he did a 4-9 pool. The early zealot is simply essential in eliminating the threat of an "auto loss." It's a balancing act that is nothing like cheese.
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On January 08 2010 16:01 machinehead.. wrote:
The foundation of my recent strategies is simple: counter both extremes of the spectrum (8 rax/2gate and 14cc, etc), while being able to keep your eco ahead of theirs, or at least on par and to out skill/strategize them from there. What happens when a terran 14 cc's against zerg? The zerg usually loses unless he did a 4-9 pool. The early zealot is simply essential in eliminating the threat of an "auto loss." It's a balancing act that is nothing like cheese.
I'm done arguing with you. Your replay pack speaks differently then you do. Good day sir.
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do you realize you're just losing legitimacy fast by arguing
no one is going to take you seriously if the last rep you uploaded was from 2006
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On January 08 2010 16:04 ZZangDreamjOy wrote:Show nested quote +On January 08 2010 16:01 machinehead.. wrote:
The foundation of my recent strategies is simple: counter both extremes of the spectrum (8 rax/2gate and 14cc, etc), while being able to keep your eco ahead of theirs, or at least on par and to out skill/strategize them from there. What happens when a terran 14 cc's against zerg? The zerg usually loses unless he did a 4-9 pool. The early zealot is simply essential in eliminating the threat of an "auto loss." It's a balancing act that is nothing like cheese. I'm done arguing with you. Your replay pack speaks differently then you do. Good day sir.
You're not reading the games right then to infer it properly. For instance, I 9 rax on python for 2 reasons: 1) if they 4 pool and spawn at close positions and you went 10 rax, then you are going to be losing some scvs and it's not fun dealing with. 2) triple hatch before pool, this is a bo that is close to the equivlent of 14 nexus, and we don't want them getting that eco adv. If they 12 pool us we are on equal footing and we are not just a cheesy player, we can play on equal footing so I feel like I will win that game. It's simply a balancing act.
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On January 08 2010 16:05 DoctorHelvetica wrote:
do you realize you're just losing legitimacy fast by arguing
no one is going to take you seriously if the last rep you uploaded from 2006
I deleted my reps a month ago; I just submitted 30 reps played within the past 2 days. The best player I played during tsl was an A player with 130-30 stats -- I won and I submitted it -- I used a gas before gateway build). Anyways, I'm done with the topic for a while, as I don't really understand the points being made. I am interested in teaching non standard strategies, and people are harping at me for not teaching standard? Like... I care...
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On January 08 2010 16:12 machinehead.. wrote:Show nested quote +On January 08 2010 16:05 DoctorHelvetica wrote:
do you realize you're just losing legitimacy fast by arguing
no one is going to take you seriously if the last rep you uploaded from 2006 I deleted my reps a month ago; I just submitted 30 reps played within the past 2 days. The best player I played during tsl was an A player with 130-30 stats -- I won and I submitted it -- I used a gas before gateway build). Anyways, I'm done with the topic for a while, as I don't really understand the points being made. I am interested in teaching non standard strategies, and people are harping at me for not teaching standard? Like... I care...
I just gotta jump back in on this. Your a typical east scrub. Your attempting to teach people strategies that don't work vs good players, or will work ONCE, in a blue moon. Your replays show us nothing, except your a sham. Stop arguing with people who are most likely better players then you, and/or smarter then you.
If you had just offered to help for free, none of this would be happening. People don't want to be taught retarded builds, they want to be taught something that could help them go up levels, not sometimes win, sometimes lose. Incontrol can teach for money because hes GOOD. Your not.
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On January 08 2010 16:12 machinehead.. wrote:Show nested quote +On January 08 2010 16:05 DoctorHelvetica wrote:
do you realize you're just losing legitimacy fast by arguing
no one is going to take you seriously if the last rep you uploaded from 2006 I deleted my reps a month ago; I just submitted 30 reps played within the past 2 days. The best player I played during tsl was an A player with 130-30 stats -- I won and I submitted it -- I used a gas before gateway build). Anyways, I'm done with the topic for a while, as I don't really understand the points being made. I am interested in teaching non standard strategies, and people are harping at me for not teaching standard? Like... I care...
I somehow am attracted to your thread like pussy to rich man
I guess the reason why everyone is suggesting that you teach standard is, as many people assume (and idra said lol) is that D-C players generally need working on mechanics before theorycrafting and sick new strategies (and cheeses). Your target audience is one that needs helps with their foundations, not the players with the high level of play that prereqs good theorycrafting.
Some people may be more rude, and others nicer; but they are all trying to offer you advice to help you sell yourself as a coach better. And at the same time, most of these guys are only being dicks to you because you were acting dickish to them too. lol.
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United States2186 Posts
There is a very big difference from non standard and bad.
Valkonic would be an example of a nonstandard strategy that almost everyone does not understand well at all and I'm sure plenty don't even know it exists. It's very good but there are only a handful of players in the world (meaning a few top pros only) who understand it well at all.
The TvZ build that you did in those replays is simply terrible and is completely outdated. A better, more optimized version of it was used a long time ago but that has been obsolete since 2005 when Savior came about.
If you actually understood standard builds as you say you do you would understand that what you are doing is rubbish.
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On January 08 2010 16:26 Ver wrote:
There is a very big difference from non standard and bad.
Valkonic would be an example of a nonstandard strategy that almost everyone does not understand well at all and I'm sure plenty don't even know it exists. It's very good but there are only a handful of players in the world (meaning a few top pros only) who understand it well at all.
The TvZ build that you did in those replays is simply terrible and is completely outdated. A better, more optimized version of it was used a long time ago but that has been obsolete since 2005 when Savior came about.
If you actually understood standard builds as you say you do you would understand that what you are doing is rubbish.
BUT HE GOT B+! He MUST be good.
Thank you Ver. You eloquently stated what I could not put into words.
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ZZang. Or someone else.
Showmatch him?
I mean, I haven't watched the reps, but based on what you guys are saying his builds are fucking retarded. If the guy gets B+ with retarded ass builds then he must be doing something right. So he can keep talking about his old reps or past achievements, but I'd love to see some actual games.
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not a single person here takes you seriously so why do you insist on doing this? You've gotten 5 pages of negative responses, isn't that a good enough sign that your services aren't really wanted?
Oh but I guess you know more than idra and ver rofl
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On January 08 2010 16:32 numLoCK wrote:
ZZang. Or someone else.
Showmatch him?
I mean, I haven't watched the reps, but based on what you guys are saying his builds are fucking retarded. If the guy gets B+ with retarded ass builds then he must be doing something right. So he can keep talking about his old reps or past achievements, but I'd love to see some actual games.
this
i know it might come off as a dick measuring contest but everyone would love to see this
if machinehead doesnt mind it a lot and since he has some spare time id love to see him play either of those guys, bo5 or so
somehow i expect some shitty excuse from "zzangdreamjoy"
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On January 08 2010 16:37 sassme wrote:Show nested quote +On January 08 2010 16:32 numLoCK wrote:
ZZang. Or someone else.
Showmatch him?
I mean, I haven't watched the reps, but based on what you guys are saying his builds are fucking retarded. If the guy gets B+ with retarded ass builds then he must be doing something right. So he can keep talking about his old reps or past achievements, but I'd love to see some actual games.
this i know it might come off as a dick measuring contest but everyone would love to see this if machinehead doesnt mind it a lot and since he has some spare time id love to see him play either of those guys, bo5 or so somehow i expect some shitty excuse from "zzangdreamjoy"
I'll play him. It doesn't matter. If he wins or loses, it's a null/void situation. It doesn't mean he'll be a godo teacher or anything. His style will get you to a certain rank, and that's it. You'll never be a good/great player. I realized that. I think it's about time he does too.
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On January 08 2010 16:40 ZZangDreamjOy wrote:Show nested quote +On January 08 2010 16:37 sassme wrote:On January 08 2010 16:32 numLoCK wrote:
ZZang. Or someone else.
Showmatch him?
I mean, I haven't watched the reps, but based on what you guys are saying his builds are fucking retarded. If the guy gets B+ with retarded ass builds then he must be doing something right. So he can keep talking about his old reps or past achievements, but I'd love to see some actual games.
this i know it might come off as a dick measuring contest but everyone would love to see this if machinehead doesnt mind it a lot and since he has some spare time id love to see him play either of those guys, bo5 or so somehow i expect some shitty excuse from "zzangdreamjoy" I'll play him. It doesn't matter. If he wins or loses, it's a null/void situation. It doesn't mean he'll be a godo teacher or anything. His style will get you to a certain rank, and that's it. You'll never be a good/great player. I realized that. I think it's about time he does too.
so the only good players in starcraft are those terrans who sit on 4 bases, wait for 200/200 3-3 and then attack, cuz that's standard and common nowadays and wat teh 500 apmz pr0gamerz do rite!!11 Or zergs who go 3 hatch spire, into 5 hatch hydra, into muta sniping templars, into lurker contain, into 4 gases ultra ling into doom drop win... those are teh gosus!
Seriously? You guys want him to go B+ playing the same crap every single game? -___-!!
All this whole macro standar shit is getting out of proportions... if any player does something different from this macro shit he automatically becomes a: fucking skilless lucky shitty newbie with no mechanics (PRO MECHANICS 300 EAPM LULZ!!)
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machinehead, your problem is not understanding that we're talking talking about OTHER peoples money. Do they want to pay you so that they 'probably' will get DECENT or better advice? When we're talking about money people want to know that what they get is good.
They have no idea what your teaching skills are. They don't even have a verification how good you are. Perhaps you beat mondragon or JF, but so what? Obviously you're not a BAD player, but it doesn't prove that you're good enough to teach either. People don't know you, and you're incapable of proving it except in a few replays you post.
I beat Cloud 2-0 in a NW 4-5 years ago, I've beaten JF etc. Does it make me qualified to teach someone, and now people would pay me should feel really fuzzy inside that they're getting good advice? no..
You got to post actual proof and show that you're a capable teacher for people to believe you. Perhaps offer to give the first lesson for FREE, and then if they feel good about it, like they should if we're to believe you, they may go for more. The only problem with that is that people think that you're a dick because of how you've posted in this thread, but you should give it a try regardless.
Don't expect people to be sure of your skills just because you beat a few known players.
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On January 08 2010 16:51 El Resplandor wrote:Show nested quote +On January 08 2010 16:40 ZZangDreamjOy wrote:On January 08 2010 16:37 sassme wrote:On January 08 2010 16:32 numLoCK wrote:
ZZang. Or someone else.
Showmatch him?
I mean, I haven't watched the reps, but based on what you guys are saying his builds are fucking retarded. If the guy gets B+ with retarded ass builds then he must be doing something right. So he can keep talking about his old reps or past achievements, but I'd love to see some actual games.
this i know it might come off as a dick measuring contest but everyone would love to see this if machinehead doesnt mind it a lot and since he has some spare time id love to see him play either of those guys, bo5 or so somehow i expect some shitty excuse from "zzangdreamjoy" I'll play him. It doesn't matter. If he wins or loses, it's a null/void situation. It doesn't mean he'll be a godo teacher or anything. His style will get you to a certain rank, and that's it. You'll never be a good/great player. I realized that. I think it's about time he does too. so the only good players in starcraft are those terrans who sit on 4 bases, wait for 200/200 3-3 and then attack, cuz that's standard and common nowadays and wat teh 500 apmz pr0gamerz do rite!!11 Or zergs who go 3 hatch spire, into 5 hatch hydra, into muta sniping templars, into lurker contain, into 4 gases ultra ling into doom drop win... those are teh gosus! Seriously? You guys want him to go B+ playing the same crap every single game? -___-!! All this whole macro standar shit is getting out of proportions... if any player does something different from this macro shit he automatically becomes a: fucking skilless lucky shitty newbie with no mechanics (PRO MECHANICS 300 EAPM LULZ!!)
No, the best players are people who can play straight up, but also mix in these unorthodox things. He can't help anyone with straightup play, as he himself does not understand it. He's wanting money to teach people useless shit.
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iNcontroL
USA29055 Posts
these threads make good reads if nothing else o-O
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On January 08 2010 15:17 Sadist wrote:
For what its worth I completely disagree with a majority of people on this site who seem to have this idea that ranks are incredibly hard and accurate measurement of skill. That somehow a C+ player is better than a C player. Or that B+ > B. All you need to do is get lucky and win several games in a row and you can move up a rank. It also has a shitload to do with when/who you play.
100% agree. Pretty much anyone can get to C- easily if that's what they set out to do. Select your opponents, maps, match-ups and aim for build order wins, learn to execute them well and you will easily get the win-rate necessary to move up that high, at least. Throw in some luck, and some ability to play real games and people who should be above D- and you can add a couple extra ranks to that. Throw in more time, dedication, and luck, and you've reached the B range. We have no reason to think ICCup's ranking system accurately correlates to skill. If all players did was try their best to raise points, even then we'd have huge luck bubbles. Fact is most player behavior doesn't work that way. People train. People dodge and get dodged. People jump all over players who are higher than they should be, and try to avoid players who are under-ranked. Within any given rank the difference of possible skill levels is huge, and not in order according to points. 100% agree.
On January 08 2010 15:38 machinehead.. wrote:Show nested quote +On January 08 2010 15:34 old times sake wrote:On January 08 2010 15:27 machinehead.. wrote:
I'm not even trying to advertise myself as a good player. The only point is I can help people who are d through c+. Only thing that is really being implied is that I'm above c+.... Obvious things get made into a biggest dick contest, I don't get it. "You don't play like you are b+." It's a good thing I'm not offering to teach B players then...
Guys, I'm not interested in teaching standard play... D through C+ players should already know standard play... I can give pointers if they choose to play that way, but I would suggest other ways of playing. You seem to be implying that being 1 (or at most 2) ranks above someone qualifies you to be their teacher. I'm not sure that this is true. Teaching talent doesn't necessarily go hand in hand with knowledge, and furthermore, usually to teach a subject you are required to be quite a bit more than 2 ranks above your students in most cases. For instance, if you want to teach pre-calc you often need to have at least a Master's degree in Math, right? You can't teach Calc 1 because you're in Calc 3. Now, sometimes you can tutor though. But again, in those cases it's not about the talent differential but about the fact that they are your peer who has already succeeded what you are at and has made the effort to become able to listen to people and help them help themselves. Usually they aren't so much professors or teachers as people who try to make you solve things yourself, but saving you some time when you're making big mistakes. Now I'm not sure, based on your posts so far, that we can put you in either category (tutor or professor). Clearly, 2 ranks difference doesn't make you a professor (not to say anything of teaching talent, an issue not addressed at all). As far as being a tutor, we haven't seen anything of your methods or your intent to become helpful--you are advertising based on your skill level alone, which doesn't necessarily mean you will be a good tutor. D through C then.... If someone has achieved ranks above you and they have inferior mechanics to you, that simply means you have more potential than them... and all the more reason to have them teach you the game, because obviously game knowledge is the only difference.
I don't understand how you think this is a complete response. You simply lower the boast a rank or two. That doesn't address the gap between teaching or tutoring skills and ability. Maybe every NBA player would be a decent coach for children, but as far as we can tell, you are more like a high school basketball player. Who can you necessarily coach? If you aren't good at coaching, then nobody, even if you're a starting player on a good highschool team. I don't even think I would put you that high (from what we know). You're more like a second string at his random highschool or something. Show some signs that you know what it means to tutor, mentor, or coach, rather than playing credentials.
Even if game knowledge is what sets you apart from your intended students, that doesn't mean that you are a worthwhile person to help them gain this knowledge. It's not as simple as telling them. It doesn't mean you will be useful to them at all. The knowledge is already out there for free, so what will you do better than that? Telling people is not the same as helping them. You can tell somebody how to shoot threes. It doesn't do dick.
Second, it's not just knowledge. It's mechanics. Maybe it can be coached, but I don't think everybody who has achieved great mechanics necessarily knows how to get somebody else to.
On January 08 2010 14:55 machinehead.. wrote:
I swear most of you have the reading comprehension of a 2 year old. Yes, can't read at all. I was saying I was cheesing in the reps I uploaded in a sarcastic tone, because someone kept saying I was cheesing in all my games, "u went 1 gate forge in a pvt." I made a freaking cannon at my natural. Bisu must be cheesing hard in pvz... I mean it just baffles me how people can be of this caliber.
I am surprised to see you critiqing people's reading comprehension. You clearly missed large chunks of what I said, judging by your reply.
I'm not even against you, dude. You might be a good coach. You might even be a good player. I think people are not critiquing you, just the evidence you've provided. Either stream some first person games along with your commentary, write an essay, take on a student for free so he can testify as to your helpfulness, or provide a larger set of your games so people can see what you can do. If you only show hand-picked games people are going to be suspicious. In fact, when it comes to paying somebody to coach you, people are going to be downright paranoid, and you should just expect this and see it as what you're going to have to overcome by giving what seems a large, unnecessary amount of assurances.
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my question is whether this guy truly believed he was top 16 or not. did his ego really blind him or was he just talking big with the knowledge that we can't truly disprove his claim (but he can't prove it either).
regardless, i'll offer lessons on how to attack your own buildings for $1/hr.
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personally i think its really hard to "teach" someone mechanics of how to macro/micro properly. the best way to learn to get better at those things is just through a lot of practice - not so much through coaching or tutoring by someone else. that's probably why machinehead isn't trying to teach lower level players these kinds of skills, but rather tries to teach ideas that are more related to strategies and understanding why certain tactics are done and how they can give you an advantage - basically giving you a better game sense and understanding of the game
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Ifrostmourne's post is dead on; you should clone yourself. GJ, guy. I'm not going to lie, I haven't read anything but the last response because frankly I don't value much of what was being said prior to what I had read. Guys, I wouldn't even charge much if someone wanted help... it's just a jump start to a freaking poker account, not to feed me or even money I couldn't deposit already...
In all honesty, I don't think it's right to charge much of anything for this kinda stuff till Day[9] does. Day[9] is the most well-rounded player I know, excluding Idra. Day is a brilliant person and player, and he gives out invaluable information for free. I hope you guys realize how good of a deed and privilege that is. If people think I'm a noob -- we are all nubs in someones eyes -- then I would gladly lower the target range. Less pressure on me anyways to not suck...
I think you guys are trying to discuss whether things like these should be going on in the first place, and I'm the whipping boy because no one knows me so there isn't much repercussion for scolding me. Nothing I could say would change that is the vibe I have, so I can't say I'm listening.
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When someone doesn't see where he went wrong, but instead sees himself as victim and the others as less intelligent, hilarity ensues. Seriously, get over yourself machinehead.
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For all of you that don't know who I am, I am [Pan]Gretorp. I play completely theoretical based, and rely on being smart in my game play since my execution sucks T.T I've known machinehead for at least 5 years now, and I have learned a majority of my theoretical Starcraft from him.
Throughout playing machinehead.. as long as i've ever known him, I've never seen him cheese once. He's the one that taught me never to cheese in any type of practice game, and explained to me the fundamentals of effective learning. I have no clue what people are talking about and it's really sad to keep hearing that.
His play style is unorthodox at sometimes but it's never to get a build order win. He plays deliberately, and the majority of people don't understand the reasoning which is why people discredit his play. In reality, he plays extremely smart imo.
It boils down to this:
There are those that think he's not qualified to teach.
There exists no qualification to teach. a D+ could teach a D, and a D could teach a D+. Mike Tison's coach could never beat Mike Tison, but this mean does not mean he shouldn't bother with a trainer.
There are those that discredit his rank, mechanics, knowledge of "standard play"/theoretical understanding.
There isn't much I can say for this other than I can vouch that he probably understands this game more than the majority of players. In my opinion his rank is correct although rank is just an arbitrary indicator of approximate skill. However, anyone that can get B+ is going to be theoretically stronger than the majority, generally.
I do believe he is being victimized, as people are unnecessarily harsh right off the bat. Do I believe there could be better ways of marketing his product, yes, however people are being extremely rude and delegitimizing his service because of that.
As for skill, theory, and ability to explain and teach, I think machinehead is strong still since I have talked with him about this many of times throughout the years. I've played with him twice recently and went 1-1 with him. He's still capable of strong mechanics.
As for marketing, D- :O!
However, I don't think the people trolling this is helping anyone.
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Canada9720 Posts
after seeing his responses in this thread only a retard would believe this guy is capable or interested in teaching anyone. the only coherent response he can manage is "it's only to jumpstart my poker account...". who the fuck cares about your poker? lmao what the fuck does that have to do with bw?
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As I've found out first hand from the TL.net community, it's hard to keep composure when posters are so rash with their comments, and they relentlessly keep attacking the OP.
I'm not a retard either, and you shouldn't use that word :O!
How can you honestly say all comments that were originally posted by others are legitimate. Look again and see how harsh everyone is. Not to mention, the majority of posters will go in this order.
OP is posted
Posters bash OP
OP defensive
Posters legitimizing harsh comments with their reasoning
OP defensive
Posters saying how OP's responses are ridiculous
Before people start to speak their reasoning of why they think a particular thing is bad, they start with an attacking tone, and instantly set a aggressive stance against the OP. I guess i'd characterize it as trolling before speaking instead of having a discussion/argument like a regular person with normal social skills.
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+ Show Spoiler +On January 09 2010 00:15 Pr0terg wrote:
For all of you that don't know who I am, I am [Pan]Gretorp. I play completely theoretical based, and rely on being smart in my game play since my execution sucks T.T I've known machinehead for at least 5 years now, and I have learned a majority of my theoretical Starcraft from him.
Throughout playing machinehead.. as long as i've ever known him, I've never seen him cheese once. He's the one that taught me never to cheese in any type of practice game, and explained to me the fundamentals of effective learning. I have no clue what people are talking about and it's really sad to keep hearing that.
His play style is unorthodox at sometimes but it's never to get a build order win. He plays deliberately, and the majority of people don't understand the reasoning which is why people discredit his play. In reality, he plays extremely smart imo.
It boils down to this:
There are those that think he's not qualified to teach.
There exists no qualification to teach. a D+ could teach a D, and a D could teach a D+. Mike Tison's coach could never beat Mike Tison, but this mean does not mean he shouldn't bother with a trainer.
There are those that discredit his rank, mechanics, knowledge of "standard play"/theoretical understanding.
There isn't much I can say for this other than I can vouch that he probably understands this game more than the majority of players. In my opinion his rank is correct although rank is just an arbitrary indicator of approximate skill. However, anyone that can get B+ is going to be theoretically stronger than the majority, generally.
I do believe he is being victimized, as people are unnecessarily harsh right off the bat. Do I believe there could be better ways of marketing his product, yes, however people are being extremely rude and delegitimizing his service because of that.
As for skill, theory, and ability to explain and teach, I think machinehead is strong still since I have talked with him about this many of times throughout the years. I've played with him twice recently and went 1-1 with him. He's still capable of strong mechanics.
As for marketing, D- :O!
However, I don't think the people trolling this is helping anyone.
I don't really feel he's being unfairly treated at all. It's his approach that's so flawed. Like everyone knows, drilling build orders is the best way to get better, learning theorycrafting and game sense comes with time and can be helped with training, people acknowledge that, but it's developing fundamental economic, tech and attack timings that will really make a bad player improve very quickly..
But the way he's tried to get people onboard is just stupid, and his attitude doesn't appear to be that of somebody who actually wants to help people improve, just brag post about beating named players, his iccup rank and how he has a deep understanding of the game that somehow makes doing retarded bo's and strange styles an acceptable avenue to improvement.
I mean this guy goes 1 rax fac starport off 1 base, with a bunker above his ramp against zerg. He goes 1 zeal cannon expand vs terran. These are pointless outdated builds, and he is advertising his "services" by posting replays of them, and they aren't even against good players, they're against total scrubs on python.
He then gets raped by G5's terran. And if he plays the way he did in those replays I can see why.
So forgive me if he actually is an incredibly knowledgeable player who has just somehow gone unheard of for 4 years, but based on the games he has provided, his inane comments about standard play in this thread and the way he has treated everyone who has pointed out the very reasonable problems I have outlined in this post, it seems safe to conclude that he is nothing more than a mid level cheesey player, with low APM and weak mechanics, with a bad attitude and a nasty temper.
And that's all I've got to say about that.
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So machinehead tilted all his full tilt bankroll and is now desperate for some bucks...
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Calgary25981 Posts
On January 09 2010 00:23 CTStalker wrote:
after seeing his responses in this thread only a retard would believe this guy is capable or interested in teaching anyone. the only coherent response he can manage is "it's only to jumpstart my poker account...". who the fuck cares about your poker? lmao what the fuck does that have to do with bw?
It's pretty obvious he has no desire to teach people. That doesn't mean we need people piling up on him though.
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I wonder why you want to teach if you don't like 99% of the BW community and you can't take criticism.
Seems to me that you would be an awful teacher
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i just guess its ppl like this who remind us how good incontrols offer is right now ^^
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On January 09 2010 01:21 MorroW[MB] wrote:
i just guess its ppl like this who remind us how good incontrols offer is right now ^^
Could machinehead be inc trolling?
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On January 09 2010 01:40 SiZ.FaNtAsY wrote:Show nested quote +On January 09 2010 01:21 MorroW[MB] wrote:
i just guess its ppl like this who remind us how good incontrols offer is right now ^^ Could machinehead be inc trolling?
No this sicko is actually a real person.
He got cocky one day claiming he dominates me in some LR thread. So I post a replay and he never posted on the name again and then was banned.
TL.net has lowered the standards for trash coming back repeatedly in the last six months. I don't know if it is just to much work with TSL or what but SO many weirdo's around it is getting lame.
This guy is like a flashyfinanncier that really does think he is good lol.
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I have no doubt machinehead is "in the know" and can teach people quite a bunch. But this just really goes to show that you should "get your shit together" (not an assault just because it has "shit" in it) before trying to market your expertise. The presentation has been less than stellar, and with the prev. thread the OP didn't even bother to change the post somebody else suggested as an outline. Last time I looked it still had text in it that was meant as suggestions to machinehead to change, not to the reader of the OP.
This to me suggests a degree of "slapdashness" I wouldn't immediatly pay for. Also, the emphasis on who the OP has beaten, contrary to the widely used metric of a stable rank on iCCup makes me believe that he holds himself to his own standards and nobody else's. This could mean anything, and is sometimes just a measure of the person's ego rather than anything else. Also, I would expect anyone serious about teaching for money to be able to produce a concise and coherent post presenting the offer, at least the second time around, if for some arbitrary reason not the first.
The OP is well aware of the existing offers, and should have no problem deciding a price from there. If you want to market yourself, you want to be concise and sincere. Nobody is interested in blabber, and very few people will be interested in spending time negotiating a price, which could take days over the Internet.
The problem here seems quite apparent to everyone else on this forum, so unless machinehead is truly out of synch with the cosmos he will have no problem ironing out the kinks. He might want to consult the advice of his peers before he has another go, however. I can't see him having quite a control group of extra lives on this one.
hf,
best of luck
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You realize I don't troll you because of what I may believe your skill level to be or what your teaching abilities may be.
I troll you because I believe you're an ass. Hell, I'm an ass, but at least I'm not ignorant about that quality of myself. What about you? Do you believe you're actually innocent of this treatment? Maybe (ya know, maybe) it was uncalled for, but do you think it's unheard of?
I believe you will get little respect the way you act, unless you pull a stunt like taking 4th in WCG 2009. =/
~~~
Using my good faith in humanity (and Gretorp), I'm sure you've said some intelligent things in this thread, but it's the trash that you include that sticks out (on mah trollin' radar).
Let's all be civil and mature now, mmmk?
+ Show Spoiler +On January 08 2010 14:35 machinehead.. wrote: I hope your offspring will be born with a brain, it would be tragic if it was hereditary.
Oops.
*edit* spoiler'd to build suspense
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On January 08 2010 14:50 CaucasianAsian wrote:Show nested quote +On January 08 2010 14:42 machinehead.. wrote:
Listen, I don't join teams cause I don't see the point and I don't like 99% of the people in the SC community. The last thing I would want is to make friends with most of the "good" players in the US. If you act like an idiot -- I don't have a reason to care for your existence. If you are a reasonable person who isn't a d-bag (not a hard thing to do), then I have no problems with you and I would be the opposite of rude to you. It's not my call, it's a reflection of how you act. People will get treated how they deserve. I'm sorry but you sound like an egotistical bastard. If you keep going about how amazing you are and that you can teach people for a price (which you have never stated) then go for it. But you are going a about it the wrong way. Saying you have beaten top players (by cheesing) isn't the way to do it. If you want to teach people, then teach people what they want to learn. People want to learn the fundamentals of starcraft, good macro, good micro, the right timings, etc... Which iNControl can teach very well, because he plays what people call 'standard' very very well. You on the other hand, don't seem to grasp the fundamentals that people want to learn. Until you can prove that you have such skills, I can assure you that you won't get anyone who wants to learn from you. Everyone can learn how to cheese, but they aren't getting any better at the game, which is what they WANT to do. They don't want to learn how to beat someone good by a surprise build, they want to learn how to beat them good straight up. They want to walk over their peers with superior knowledge of the game, amazing macro and breathtaking micro. They don't want to do some cheesey build that will get them a nice looking letter. For your own sake, prove that you have the knowledge of the game that people will pay for. Not some cheese builds, as they can just watch TT1's replay pack for that!
your a clown, be quiet please
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machinehead what is wrong with you? do you want all this drama seriously?
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Again, I only read the last few responses. I've had the mentality that everyone in the SC community that is above b- could help the same target range I had as long as they spoke the same language, and they weren't better than their student simply because they have superior mechanics.
I used to watch all the TVZ progamer replays and it wasn't real hard to understand standard play and to emulate -- if you had good enough macro/micro then you were set. If players are in my target range and they are already playing standard, then there are other strategies they could use that would better suit their current macro/micro skills. 2 base arbiter play for instance is a hell of a lot easier than playing standard pvt. Drama should not have come with my OP; I can't predict how many people that aren't capable of grasping simple concepts would chime in.
And for the record If I did teach someone, I would be enthused to do something like d through c or even d through c-. And if the joke is I can't help that target range still... the joke is on you.
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On January 09 2010 05:00 machinehead.. wrote:
And for the record If I did teach someone, I would be enthused to do something like d through c or even d through c-. And if the joke is I can't help that target range still... the joke is on you.
I suggest you offer your services for free to a select group of people, and then have them write up their impression of you as a mentor. I think that would fix a lot of the drama your threads have been generating. Given that the feedback is positive in nature.
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I might do that, because after all there isn't a real big difference between cheap and free. But if the students are around d+... I mean there is a myriad of things that are easy to point out and correct. But I guess I could be blind....
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im tempted to buy a lesson just to see what its like lol ) too bad my paypal acc is just registred to receive else i would take a lesson
machinehead theres no need to defend urself, its impossible. too many ppl r against u now and it doesnt matter how much nonsense they talk or how good posts and arguments u make, they will twist it around to make u look bad regardless of what u say. my advice to u would be to enter all tournaments u can get a grab of and get urself some achievements then make this proposal again
but if ur just trying to make an easy buck starcraft is one of the hardest ways to do it, trust me on that one
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On January 09 2010 05:16 MorroW[MB] wrote:
im tempted to buy a lesson just to see what its like lol ) too bad my paypal acc is just registred to receive else i would take a lesson
Judging from your track record in the TSL2 thus far you're probably not in the demography :-P
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Figuring how well you did in TSL, I've been thinking about getting lessons from you. Btw, atm I would only accept full tilt transfers, as the whole point from my perspective is convenience related to poker...
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On January 09 2010 05:16 MorroW[MB] wrote:
im tempted to buy a lesson just to see what its like lol ) too bad my paypal acc is just registred to receive else i would take a lesson
machinehead theres no need to defend urself, its impossible. too many ppl r against u now and it doesnt matter how much nonsense they talk or how good posts and arguments u make, they will twist it around to make u look bad regardless of what u say. my advice to u would be to enter all tournaments u can get a grab of and get urself some achievements then make this proposal again
but if ur just trying to make an easy buck starcraft is one of the hardest ways to do it, trust me on that one
Morrow, wise words. Also part of why I'm trying to get back into poker and not being "super gosu" at SC. I can prove that I've already beaten many top players in today's game and have qualified for things like WCG. That knowledge and potential hasn't left me... but my will to accomplish those same feats is not close to what it once was. My only hope is to be able to help some players in the D through C category, not rival players of your caliber. I'm close to dropping it and moving on, as it was hardly a big deal to me to begin with. But unreasonable people can be inciting.
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the majority of people bashing machinehead in this thread (and the earlier thread) would get raped by him anyway in a 1v1.
people should relax holy crap its not like he's gonna be forcing you to take lessons lmfao.
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On January 08 2010 15:42 machinehead.. wrote:
Avilo I used to be in nex with you -- you are one of the worst players I know. I used to beat you in tvt repeatedly, despite not even being a tvt player, and all you could talk about is how you should teach me TVT cause I'm bad at it. You are not a smart guy.
Ah, I see, you are NeX-Playa. I remember you from years ago from U.S. East op nex-, used to play with you too. Wonder why you don't go by that username on here. guess you're a machinehead AND a hard head now...
You were a good player from what I remember when I was active, very damn good PvT game, except I only remember you going DT into arbiter every game...but dude, you are not going to win anyone over to your side with how you are posting so arrogant on here, let alone with no solid "credentials." Especially if you are offering to teach.
I remember you basically went DT opening EVERY single PvT game into fast arbiter, and dude, I am remembering this from YEARS ago, from 2004+ as you say, and if that is all you are still doing now (from what people described from watching your rep pack), I do not know how much you improved since then...lmao...
No one is going to take you serious on TL unless you have more serious "credentials" like A rank iccup, showing good games on stream, or unless you post a rep pack with good standard and strong play...shit like that. It don't think it helps your cause much that even I, an "unknown" as well in the SC community remember you from years ago and your best match-up was PvT because you'd go DT every game into fast arbiter, and that you always said you had "sick TvZ" because "tvz was imbalanced and 'easy'." You said that in 2006 too lol...
On January 09 2010 00:15 Pr0terg wrote:
For all of you that don't know who I am, I am [Pan]Gretorp. I play completely theoretical based, and rely on being smart in my game play since my execution sucks T.T I've known machinehead for at least 5 years now, and I have learned a majority of my theoretical Starcraft from him.
Throughout playing machinehead.. as long as i've ever known him, I've never seen him cheese once. He's the one that taught me never to cheese in any type of practice game, and explained to me the fundamentals of effective learning. I have no clue what people are talking about and it's really sad to keep hearing that.
His play style is unorthodox at sometimes but it's never to get a build order win. He plays deliberately, and the majority of people don't understand the reasoning which is why people discredit his play. In reality, he plays extremely smart imo.
It boils down to this:
There are those that think he's not qualified to teach.
There exists no qualification to teach. a D+ could teach a D, and a D could teach a D+. Mike Tison's coach could never beat Mike Tison, but this mean does not mean he shouldn't bother with a trainer.
There are those that discredit his rank, mechanics, knowledge of "standard play"/theoretical understanding.
There isn't much I can say for this other than I can vouch that he probably understands this game more than the majority of players. In my opinion his rank is correct although rank is just an arbitrary indicator of approximate skill. However, anyone that can get B+ is going to be theoretically stronger than the majority, generally.
I do believe he is being victimized, as people are unnecessarily harsh right off the bat. Do I believe there could be better ways of marketing his product, yes, however people are being extremely rude and delegitimizing his service because of that.
As for skill, theory, and ability to explain and teach, I think machinehead is strong still since I have talked with him about this many of times throughout the years. I've played with him twice recently and went 1-1 with him. He's still capable of strong mechanics.
As for marketing, D- :O!
However, I don't think the people trolling this is helping anyone.
I remember you as well from nex pr0terg, I agree playa is a good player...but how can you say you have never seen him cheese lol? Basically 90% of his PvT he goes DT lol...of course I cannot say if he improved that, but people are saying that his reppack is mostly cheese games...so I will not be the judge of that.
He is strong player, but yes, perhaps he should take some marketing and people relations courses @_@
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Korea (South)11583 Posts
On January 09 2010 04:32 iamtt1 wrote:Show nested quote +On January 08 2010 14:50 CaucasianAsian wrote:On January 08 2010 14:42 machinehead.. wrote:
Listen, I don't join teams cause I don't see the point and I don't like 99% of the people in the SC community. The last thing I would want is to make friends with most of the "good" players in the US. If you act like an idiot -- I don't have a reason to care for your existence. If you are a reasonable person who isn't a d-bag (not a hard thing to do), then I have no problems with you and I would be the opposite of rude to you. It's not my call, it's a reflection of how you act. People will get treated how they deserve. I'm sorry but you sound like an egotistical bastard. If you keep going about how amazing you are and that you can teach people for a price (which you have never stated) then go for it. But you are going a about it the wrong way. Saying you have beaten top players (by cheesing) isn't the way to do it. If you want to teach people, then teach people what they want to learn. People want to learn the fundamentals of starcraft, good macro, good micro, the right timings, etc... Which iNControl can teach very well, because he plays what people call 'standard' very very well. You on the other hand, don't seem to grasp the fundamentals that people want to learn. Until you can prove that you have such skills, I can assure you that you won't get anyone who wants to learn from you. Everyone can learn how to cheese, but they aren't getting any better at the game, which is what they WANT to do. They don't want to learn how to beat someone good by a surprise build, they want to learn how to beat them good straight up. They want to walk over their peers with superior knowledge of the game, amazing macro and breathtaking micro. They don't want to do some cheesey build that will get them a nice looking letter. For your own sake, prove that you have the knowledge of the game that people will pay for. Not some cheese builds, as they can just watch TT1's replay pack for that! your a clown, be quiet please
haha, sorry if that was hurtful. I didn't mean for it to sound demeaning towards you at all. I just meant that you have a few cheeses in that rep pack, like a few proxy gates PvT on HBR and PvP on destination. I'm still a fan 
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On January 09 2010 05:57 LuckyFool wrote:
the majority of people bashing machinehead in this thread (and the earlier thread) would get raped by him anyway in a 1v1.
people should relax holy crap its not like he's gonna be forcing you to take lessons lmfao.
Exactly.
Why in the world is everyone being so harsh to this guy?
He is just stating his proposition to teach low skilled players in exchange of some cash so he can have fun at poker.
Even if his style is different, I am sure he is able to execute it well. Cheese alone wont get you to B+, you certainly need an understanding of the game, good execution, etc. Being a macro whore is not the only/right way to play Starcraft.
And even if the deal does not seem favorable to you, no one is forcing you to pay.
I am sure that most Starcraft players are like me, and see the game as a mere hobby. Paying extra for it does not appeal to me, after all, it is not an investment just a loss. Attaining higher skill in Starcraft doesn't really benefit me in many ways, unlike soccer... I would join a training club for soccer so I could be able to play the sport with other players.
Starcraft I dont need to join a training program/club to play. So Starcraft training would be something I would only take for free. =)
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On January 08 2010 10:38 IdrA wrote:
are you real?
LOL
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"but what am i supposed to do" LOL
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gah n/m..... im embarrased at my own team member lol
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On January 09 2010 06:17 avilo wrote:Show nested quote +On January 08 2010 15:42 machinehead.. wrote:
Avilo I used to be in nex with you -- you are one of the worst players I know. I used to beat you in tvt repeatedly, despite not even being a tvt player, and all you could talk about is how you should teach me TVT cause I'm bad at it. You are not a smart guy. Ah, I see, you are NeX-Playa. I remember you from years ago from U.S. East op nex-, used to play with you too. Wonder why you don't go by that username on here. guess you're a machinehead AND a hard head now... You were a good player from what I remember when I was active, very damn good PvT game, except I only remember you going DT into arbiter every game...but dude, you are not going to win anyone over to your side with how you are posting so arrogant on here, let alone with no solid "credentials." Especially if you are offering to teach. I remember you basically went DT opening EVERY single PvT game into fast arbiter, and dude, I am remembering this from YEARS ago, from 2004+ as you say, and if that is all you are still doing now (from what people described from watching your rep pack), I do not know how much you improved since then...lmao... No one is going to take you serious on TL unless you have more serious "credentials" like A rank iccup, showing good games on stream, or unless you post a rep pack with good standard and strong play...shit like that. It don't think it helps your cause much that even I, an "unknown" as well in the SC community remember you from years ago and your best match-up was PvT because you'd go DT every game into fast arbiter, and that you always said you had "sick TvZ" because "tvz was imbalanced and 'easy'." You said that in 2006 too lol... Show nested quote +On January 09 2010 00:15 Pr0terg wrote:
For all of you that don't know who I am, I am [Pan]Gretorp. I play completely theoretical based, and rely on being smart in my game play since my execution sucks T.T I've known machinehead for at least 5 years now, and I have learned a majority of my theoretical Starcraft from him.
Throughout playing machinehead.. as long as i've ever known him, I've never seen him cheese once. He's the one that taught me never to cheese in any type of practice game, and explained to me the fundamentals of effective learning. I have no clue what people are talking about and it's really sad to keep hearing that.
His play style is unorthodox at sometimes but it's never to get a build order win. He plays deliberately, and the majority of people don't understand the reasoning which is why people discredit his play. In reality, he plays extremely smart imo.
It boils down to this:
There are those that think he's not qualified to teach.
There exists no qualification to teach. a D+ could teach a D, and a D could teach a D+. Mike Tison's coach could never beat Mike Tison, but this mean does not mean he shouldn't bother with a trainer.
There are those that discredit his rank, mechanics, knowledge of "standard play"/theoretical understanding.
There isn't much I can say for this other than I can vouch that he probably understands this game more than the majority of players. In my opinion his rank is correct although rank is just an arbitrary indicator of approximate skill. However, anyone that can get B+ is going to be theoretically stronger than the majority, generally.
I do believe he is being victimized, as people are unnecessarily harsh right off the bat. Do I believe there could be better ways of marketing his product, yes, however people are being extremely rude and delegitimizing his service because of that.
As for skill, theory, and ability to explain and teach, I think machinehead is strong still since I have talked with him about this many of times throughout the years. I've played with him twice recently and went 1-1 with him. He's still capable of strong mechanics.
As for marketing, D- :O!
However, I don't think the people trolling this is helping anyone. I remember you as well from nex pr0terg, I agree playa is a good player...but how can you say you have never seen him cheese lol? Basically 90% of his PvT he goes DT lol...of course I cannot say if he improved that, but people are saying that his reppack is mostly cheese games...so I will not be the judge of that. He is strong player, but yes, perhaps he should take some marketing and people relations courses @_@
My pvt actually used to be my worst matchup -- it only improved because I had to practice only pvt for a WCG regionals against nesh and evade (both terrans). It was the last time I took it seriously at really improving, so the result was my pvt was my new best mu. Tvp was my best matchup, but it's anything but fun to play so I pretty much stopped playing against P untill recently I tried out pvp.
The reason my pvt is "gay" is because I was decent at tvp; It's incredibly easy to play against standard pvt players compared to players that really abuse the "imbalances" of pvt. If you want to win pvt games, you have no business playing anything close to standard unless you have the mechanics of a Nony type player.
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On January 09 2010 06:37 CaucasianAsian wrote:Show nested quote +On January 09 2010 04:32 iamtt1 wrote:On January 08 2010 14:50 CaucasianAsian wrote:On January 08 2010 14:42 machinehead.. wrote:
Listen, I don't join teams cause I don't see the point and I don't like 99% of the people in the SC community. The last thing I would want is to make friends with most of the "good" players in the US. If you act like an idiot -- I don't have a reason to care for your existence. If you are a reasonable person who isn't a d-bag (not a hard thing to do), then I have no problems with you and I would be the opposite of rude to you. It's not my call, it's a reflection of how you act. People will get treated how they deserve. I'm sorry but you sound like an egotistical bastard. If you keep going about how amazing you are and that you can teach people for a price (which you have never stated) then go for it. But you are going a about it the wrong way. Saying you have beaten top players (by cheesing) isn't the way to do it. If you want to teach people, then teach people what they want to learn. People want to learn the fundamentals of starcraft, good macro, good micro, the right timings, etc... Which iNControl can teach very well, because he plays what people call 'standard' very very well. You on the other hand, don't seem to grasp the fundamentals that people want to learn. Until you can prove that you have such skills, I can assure you that you won't get anyone who wants to learn from you. Everyone can learn how to cheese, but they aren't getting any better at the game, which is what they WANT to do. They don't want to learn how to beat someone good by a surprise build, they want to learn how to beat them good straight up. They want to walk over their peers with superior knowledge of the game, amazing macro and breathtaking micro. They don't want to do some cheesey build that will get them a nice looking letter. For your own sake, prove that you have the knowledge of the game that people will pay for. Not some cheese builds, as they can just watch TT1's replay pack for that! your a clown, be quiet please haha, sorry if that was hurtful. I didn't mean for it to sound demeaning towards you at all. I just meant that you have a few cheeses in that rep pack, like a few proxy gates PvT on HBR and PvP on destination. I'm still a fan
oh wow while i was taking my shower it hit me that i was confusing you with puertorican lol, sorry caucasian i actually cant believe i mixed the two of you up.. i remember you from brainclan
i was initially thinking "wtf why is this puertorican guy randomly calling me out.. i dont even like him"
+ Show Spoiler +i think my mind secretly wanted it to be puertorican
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stop think that he can do something ROFL
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On January 09 2010 08:35 machinehead.. wrote:Show nested quote +On January 09 2010 06:17 avilo wrote:On January 08 2010 15:42 machinehead.. wrote:
Avilo I used to be in nex with you -- you are one of the worst players I know. I used to beat you in tvt repeatedly, despite not even being a tvt player, and all you could talk about is how you should teach me TVT cause I'm bad at it. You are not a smart guy. Ah, I see, you are NeX-Playa. I remember you from years ago from U.S. East op nex-, used to play with you too. Wonder why you don't go by that username on here. guess you're a machinehead AND a hard head now... You were a good player from what I remember when I was active, very damn good PvT game, except I only remember you going DT into arbiter every game...but dude, you are not going to win anyone over to your side with how you are posting so arrogant on here, let alone with no solid "credentials." Especially if you are offering to teach. I remember you basically went DT opening EVERY single PvT game into fast arbiter, and dude, I am remembering this from YEARS ago, from 2004+ as you say, and if that is all you are still doing now (from what people described from watching your rep pack), I do not know how much you improved since then...lmao... No one is going to take you serious on TL unless you have more serious "credentials" like A rank iccup, showing good games on stream, or unless you post a rep pack with good standard and strong play...shit like that. It don't think it helps your cause much that even I, an "unknown" as well in the SC community remember you from years ago and your best match-up was PvT because you'd go DT every game into fast arbiter, and that you always said you had "sick TvZ" because "tvz was imbalanced and 'easy'." You said that in 2006 too lol... On January 09 2010 00:15 Pr0terg wrote:
For all of you that don't know who I am, I am [Pan]Gretorp. I play completely theoretical based, and rely on being smart in my game play since my execution sucks T.T I've known machinehead for at least 5 years now, and I have learned a majority of my theoretical Starcraft from him.
Throughout playing machinehead.. as long as i've ever known him, I've never seen him cheese once. He's the one that taught me never to cheese in any type of practice game, and explained to me the fundamentals of effective learning. I have no clue what people are talking about and it's really sad to keep hearing that.
His play style is unorthodox at sometimes but it's never to get a build order win. He plays deliberately, and the majority of people don't understand the reasoning which is why people discredit his play. In reality, he plays extremely smart imo.
It boils down to this:
There are those that think he's not qualified to teach.
There exists no qualification to teach. a D+ could teach a D, and a D could teach a D+. Mike Tison's coach could never beat Mike Tison, but this mean does not mean he shouldn't bother with a trainer.
There are those that discredit his rank, mechanics, knowledge of "standard play"/theoretical understanding.
There isn't much I can say for this other than I can vouch that he probably understands this game more than the majority of players. In my opinion his rank is correct although rank is just an arbitrary indicator of approximate skill. However, anyone that can get B+ is going to be theoretically stronger than the majority, generally.
I do believe he is being victimized, as people are unnecessarily harsh right off the bat. Do I believe there could be better ways of marketing his product, yes, however people are being extremely rude and delegitimizing his service because of that.
As for skill, theory, and ability to explain and teach, I think machinehead is strong still since I have talked with him about this many of times throughout the years. I've played with him twice recently and went 1-1 with him. He's still capable of strong mechanics.
As for marketing, D- :O!
However, I don't think the people trolling this is helping anyone. I remember you as well from nex pr0terg, I agree playa is a good player...but how can you say you have never seen him cheese lol? Basically 90% of his PvT he goes DT lol...of course I cannot say if he improved that, but people are saying that his reppack is mostly cheese games...so I will not be the judge of that. He is strong player, but yes, perhaps he should take some marketing and people relations courses @_@ My pvt actually used to be my worst matchup -- it only improved because I had to practice only pvt for a WCG regionals against nesh and evade (both terrans). It was the last time I took it seriously at really improving, so the result was my pvt was my new best mu. Tvp was my best matchup, but it's anything but fun to play so I pretty much stopped playing against P untill recently I tried out pvp. The reason my pvt is "gay" is because I was decent at tvp; It's incredibly easy to play against standard pvt players compared to players that really abuse the "imbalances" of pvt. If you want to win pvt games, you have no business playing anything close to standard unless you have the mechanics of a Nony type player.
Um, well now I do not know if you are just bullshitting or saving face. Because you always seemed best at PvT lmao and you literally almost always went DT or other non-standard stuff. Not to mention you basically ONLY played PvT from what I remember lmao...
And no business playing standard? Are you joking man? People WANT to get better at the game and standard play is how you get better. If you are teaching someone Chess, you do not start teaching some magical metagame counters to specific openings that they have no knowledge of, and you do not teach them fools mate to beat noobies. You teach them the kings pawn opening for a reason, and that is to develop their game so they don't find out that they end up crippled later on when they are trying to improve because they only knew the cheese.
I am not saying playing non-standard builds should never be done, we all obviously know otherwise, but just lmao you want to teach people and then say people have no business playing pvt standard? Do YOU know how to play Standard? From reading this thread, I highly question that you do know how (whether you do or not). Standard play and mechanics is what improves skill, not cheese and "gayness" and being "strategical." That's something you can add in your game later when you have mechanics/understanding of the metagame/etc...
and even in the case that this could have had potential, you really did not win everyone over with your personality and how you were posting -.-
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No offense but it's retarded to think you can't improve your mechanics even if you are playing "non-standard." You still need to micro and macro, simply more emphasis is put on tactics to get you an advantage. People have no business playing standard PVT because it hardly challenges the Terran player. You need to know the matchup very in-depth and have better mechanics than your opponent to win. Why do you think Idra doesn't mind playing against standard toss players? Solid terrans feast on standard players.
Nothing I said was a lie... so I can't really say I care about what you recall.
The game is always evolving -- what is "standard" today is not always standard tomorrow. It's something that is highly overblown. Even in pvt, are you really cheesing someone when you never proxy your tech because you don't care if they know? I could care less if someone knows my opening, because it's anything but all-in.
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I don`t know if I should laugh or cry or if Machinehead is even serious....
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On January 09 2010 18:07 Oystein wrote:
I don`t know if I should laugh or cry or if Machinehead is even serious....
Well online he is a very angry and aggressive person but in turn based posting he is a passive and stupid.
I finally remembered his other banned account names, this is OBVIOUSLY a troll now. Gretorp is completely trolling too
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On January 09 2010 09:52 iamtt1 wrote:Show nested quote +On January 09 2010 06:37 CaucasianAsian wrote:On January 09 2010 04:32 iamtt1 wrote:On January 08 2010 14:50 CaucasianAsian wrote:On January 08 2010 14:42 machinehead.. wrote:
Listen, I don't join teams cause I don't see the point and I don't like 99% of the people in the SC community. The last thing I would want is to make friends with most of the "good" players in the US. If you act like an idiot -- I don't have a reason to care for your existence. If you are a reasonable person who isn't a d-bag (not a hard thing to do), then I have no problems with you and I would be the opposite of rude to you. It's not my call, it's a reflection of how you act. People will get treated how they deserve. I'm sorry but you sound like an egotistical bastard. If you keep going about how amazing you are and that you can teach people for a price (which you have never stated) then go for it. But you are going a about it the wrong way. Saying you have beaten top players (by cheesing) isn't the way to do it. If you want to teach people, then teach people what they want to learn. People want to learn the fundamentals of starcraft, good macro, good micro, the right timings, etc... Which iNControl can teach very well, because he plays what people call 'standard' very very well. You on the other hand, don't seem to grasp the fundamentals that people want to learn. Until you can prove that you have such skills, I can assure you that you won't get anyone who wants to learn from you. Everyone can learn how to cheese, but they aren't getting any better at the game, which is what they WANT to do. They don't want to learn how to beat someone good by a surprise build, they want to learn how to beat them good straight up. They want to walk over their peers with superior knowledge of the game, amazing macro and breathtaking micro. They don't want to do some cheesey build that will get them a nice looking letter. For your own sake, prove that you have the knowledge of the game that people will pay for. Not some cheese builds, as they can just watch TT1's replay pack for that! your a clown, be quiet please haha, sorry if that was hurtful. I didn't mean for it to sound demeaning towards you at all. I just meant that you have a few cheeses in that rep pack, like a few proxy gates PvT on HBR and PvP on destination. I'm still a fan oh wow while i was taking my shower it hit me that i was confusing you with puertorican lol, sorry caucasian i actually cant believe i mixed the two of you up.. i remember you from brainclan i was initially thinking "wtf why is this puertorican guy randomly calling me out.. i dont even like him" + Show Spoiler +i think my mind secretly wanted it to be puertorican
pr's been banned for a long time
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On January 09 2010 18:14 AttackZerg wrote:Show nested quote +On January 09 2010 18:07 Oystein wrote:
I don`t know if I should laugh or cry or if Machinehead is even serious.... Well online he is a very angry and aggressive person but in turn based posting he is a passive and stupid. I finally remembered his other banned account names, this is OBVIOUSLY a troll now. Gretorp is completely trolling too
I finally remembered what you said after you lost a game; Got called "stupid" for using the bisu build in pvz... So not only was I not a pvz player, but I played standard at the time. You have already proven yourself to be a joke.
If you suggest you will teach someone a style you like to play, it's pretty hard to not be able to help them at the d through c ranks, unless you forget how you play and why you do this and that. For people that can't understand that, it's a shame you have wasted people's breath on you.
Instead of random snide remarks, actually attack what is being said. For example, why should most foreign players be playing standard pvt?
This might be news to some, but terran is stronger at max than toss is; Playing standard will usually give a terran the chance to attack when he wants to attack and not have to spend minerals on static defense until he can afford to do so. When you use dt/reaver fast arbiter bo's, you usually force the player into "paying for your units," as in if he makes turrets you don't even have a burden of damaging him -- but it's easy to still kill units through harass or using a reaver for killing a push.
The response to fast arbiter is one of two things: 1) an attack at a time the terran doesn't want to, but he feels forced to, but the bo is designed to crush this attack -- so I don't care. 2) He just takes his third and mass turrets his main. This mass turreting will come at a time that will gravely hurt his eco, enabling you to take the map because he can't possibly keep up with you in macro.
The problem in tvp is that it takes sooo much minerals to counter what P want's to do, but it takes P very little to counter you. Terran can spend over 1k of minerals on turrets, and toss can simply research hallucination (I do this) and it nullifies it. IMO, I think an early wraith into a vessel at midgame transition with keying on emping the first arbiter so you don't have to cripple yourself is one of the better strategies in tvp.
A good pvt strategy focuses on making terrans spend a lot on static D, so they can't have the minerals to invest in units to do a push that is strong enough kill you before you have arbiters. A good tvp strategy is one that counters the p strategy while using the minimal amount of resources.
Standard pvt misses lots of opportunities to get an edge.
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I would like to further reiterate the importance of delaying the mass turret making. If you are playing against a standard arbiter timing and you have gone the wraith or gollie route to ensure you have a big army, quite often you are going to want to push the toss player for the sole purpose of making him use stasis on your units for him to not die. When you do this, you have bought yourself a lot of time and you can come back for an attack when you are close to an unstoppable supply number, and then mass turret your main. If you macro'd well, 1 stasis isn't going to mean jack at a standard arbiter timing.
Also, for terran players out there looking for a foreign terran to take some things away from their play, I would recommend A2 (his play is always very smart) and Marwin (he really impressed me during tsl). As far as teaching... I think of myself as a eco player that likes to capitalize on others mistakes. IMO, if you want more aggressive strategies that force the other player into a bad spot, then gretorp is a great guy. He can play both ways, but he has that dimension that was never my personal preference of play.
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Korea (South)11583 Posts
On January 09 2010 09:52 iamtt1 wrote:Show nested quote +On January 09 2010 06:37 CaucasianAsian wrote:On January 09 2010 04:32 iamtt1 wrote:On January 08 2010 14:50 CaucasianAsian wrote:On January 08 2010 14:42 machinehead.. wrote:
Listen, I don't join teams cause I don't see the point and I don't like 99% of the people in the SC community. The last thing I would want is to make friends with most of the "good" players in the US. If you act like an idiot -- I don't have a reason to care for your existence. If you are a reasonable person who isn't a d-bag (not a hard thing to do), then I have no problems with you and I would be the opposite of rude to you. It's not my call, it's a reflection of how you act. People will get treated how they deserve. I'm sorry but you sound like an egotistical bastard. If you keep going about how amazing you are and that you can teach people for a price (which you have never stated) then go for it. But you are going a about it the wrong way. Saying you have beaten top players (by cheesing) isn't the way to do it. If you want to teach people, then teach people what they want to learn. People want to learn the fundamentals of starcraft, good macro, good micro, the right timings, etc... Which iNControl can teach very well, because he plays what people call 'standard' very very well. You on the other hand, don't seem to grasp the fundamentals that people want to learn. Until you can prove that you have such skills, I can assure you that you won't get anyone who wants to learn from you. Everyone can learn how to cheese, but they aren't getting any better at the game, which is what they WANT to do. They don't want to learn how to beat someone good by a surprise build, they want to learn how to beat them good straight up. They want to walk over their peers with superior knowledge of the game, amazing macro and breathtaking micro. They don't want to do some cheesey build that will get them a nice looking letter. For your own sake, prove that you have the knowledge of the game that people will pay for. Not some cheese builds, as they can just watch TT1's replay pack for that! your a clown, be quiet please haha, sorry if that was hurtful. I didn't mean for it to sound demeaning towards you at all. I just meant that you have a few cheeses in that rep pack, like a few proxy gates PvT on HBR and PvP on destination. I'm still a fan oh wow while i was taking my shower it hit me that i was confusing you with puertorican lol, sorry caucasian i actually cant believe i mixed the two of you up.. i remember you from brainclan i was initially thinking "wtf why is this puertorican guy randomly calling me out.. i dont even like him" + Show Spoiler +i think my mind secretly wanted it to be puertorican
I thought I played you a few times on Brainclan, that was a long while back, after PGT and before ICCUP i think? I remember not believing you were A rank, and then I obsed you play some people who always crushed me and you just destroyed them. haha oh good times.
I don't know if it's an insult or not if you confused me with PuertoRican lol. oh well. I'll be cheering for you in TSL.
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summary of thread : people criticizing machinehead.. for being an idiot, then he responds making excuses for why he's not an idiot, but he is so stupid that in the process of doing so he makes people think he's even stupider.
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I can't believe your still trying xd
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HAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHHA...
hahahaHAHAHAHAHAAHHAHAHAHA
I thought it was impossible for you to go lower machinehead, but damn, you're good at being retarded.
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this thread is really turning into a flamewar hating machinehead?
who is he anyways , akas?
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You guys are moronic. It's cool if incontrol, gretorp and etc offer to teach others, but yet I can't when one of those people has already stated that I have helped him...
A c+ player could help people through d and c ranks... If I wanted to reach the level of 1/2 in poker, it probably would make sense to get help from someone who is already at that level, even if he isn't playing the highest stakes/the best player.
Grumbo, I would love to hear what your iccup rank is. You are obviously a smart guy, so you must have no problem winning games due to it.
Not one of you has a counter to what I have suggested. Why? Because you are too fucking stupid to do so. You guys don't even understand how to play the game as it is, so there is no way in hell for you to dissect it.
How many foreign players can play tvp and pvt at an A- level? How many are offering to teach? I can assure you I don't play at that level by operating at the same level of some posters in this thread.
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Guys, it took me months of playing SC to get b-. How many years has it taken most of you? My mechanics are not great, my apm is less than 200, so how exactly can it be? You guys need to realize how little you know.
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You know, pokerstrategy.com gives you kinda free 50$ startoff, so you dont need to rip off noobs to get some starting cash for poker ^^
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On January 11 2010 07:13 ProoM wrote:
You know, pokerstrategy.com gives you kinda free 50$ startoff, so you dont need to rip off noobs to get some starting cash for poker ^^
First of all, last time I checked that offer excluded people from USA. Second of all, I haven't even listed a price, as making a lot was never a goal for me.
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Unless someone really wanted help, I'm probably going to just focus on poker and forget about my offer. I've never wanted attention. I've never wanted to be seen as a good player. The opinions of others have never mattered much to me. I've never respected the majority enough -- I just do my own thing. There isn't a big payoff for being good in SC, but teachers hardly work for free; the price should simply reflect that.
I talked about releasing a pvp rep pack in the upcoming days, but sadly Bisu was right... 2 gate is the best bo on python in pvp, and that is anything but interesting. Since playing more casually and not joining teams, I have mainly stuck to playing the most used and most standard maps. I thought about playing some tvp games to help the d through c players, but selfishly I just have no interest in playing it (if I can recover some replays that I have deleted I might upload).
Some of you are either really good at trolling, or your biggest fear is looking gullible. I'd rather be open to being gullible than to be so close-minded that nothing beneficial could enter. Some things are obvious...
I don't respect too many players, as players or people, but Day[9] is what is right in gaming. In short, it's hard to rationalize charging for teaching, when the best mind in the game -- Day[9] -- gives to a community, that somehow he likes (I guess), for free.
Anyone that speaks loudly can be known. Personally, I fear what is known more often than the contrary.
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If you're D to C level, please don't let this guy teach you anything (I'm guessing B level players don't need his help...lol). It's not necessarily an issue of his skill level, but an issue of his attitude. You don't come on the forum, posting a 30-4 record and some games vs high-level players, as your proof of adequacy as a teacher. Showing off doesn't help newbs get better at SC. Seriously, machinehead, what do you have to offer other than the record and attitude of every member in Clan Overdosed or X17?
"When it comes to helping someone, it's not a matter of if you are gosu, but rather if you are better than them." I might as well have just posted that quote. What bullshit. You think all the coaches of progamers are better than the progamers themselves? You clearly have no grasp of what it takes to teach.
Also, after reading more of this thread while writing this, I think this shit should be closed. This guy might as well be posting pictures of himself working out his six-pack, in piles of money, while getting head from a porn star.
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On January 11 2010 20:30 machinehead. wrote:
I would post me doing all that (happened just this weekend) but I wouldn't want to make you feel even worse than my amazing replays and ICCup record did.
Btw: $5 for a lesson in any of these skills.
Ah dammit!
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lol
i watched your reps against G5
never had such a good laugh in my life
you're obviously D level tops. In fact I would say you're D-
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On January 11 2010 20:34 writer22816 wrote:
lol
i watched your reps against G5
never had such a good laugh in my life
you're obviously D level tops. In fact I would say you're D-
Was that really necessary?
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On January 12 2010 02:06 Funnytoss wrote:Show nested quote +On January 11 2010 20:34 writer22816 wrote:
lol
i watched your reps against G5
never had such a good laugh in my life
you're obviously D level tops. In fact I would say you're D- Was that really necessary?
Was any of this thread?
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On January 12 2010 02:20 Attritive wrote:Show nested quote +On January 12 2010 02:06 Funnytoss wrote:On January 11 2010 20:34 writer22816 wrote:
lol
i watched your reps against G5
never had such a good laugh in my life
you're obviously D level tops. In fact I would say you're D- Was that really necessary? Was any of this thread?
Got to have some entertainment when Im bored.
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On January 11 2010 20:34 writer22816 wrote:
lol
i watched your reps against G5
never had such a good laugh in my life
you're obviously D level tops. In fact I would say you're D-
You're not particularly intelligent are you? This isn't a matter of opinion, it's empirical.
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On January 12 2010 02:53 Ganfei wrote:Show nested quote +On January 11 2010 20:34 writer22816 wrote:
lol
i watched your reps against G5
never had such a good laugh in my life
you're obviously D level tops. In fact I would say you're D- You're not particularly intelligent are you? This isn't a matter of opinion, it's empirical.
I think he was just flaming. Obviously the guy is B+ ez. During Korean hours. With one hand.
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On January 12 2010 05:30 Attritive wrote:Show nested quote +On January 12 2010 02:53 Ganfei wrote:On January 11 2010 20:34 writer22816 wrote:
lol
i watched your reps against G5
never had such a good laugh in my life
you're obviously D level tops. In fact I would say you're D- You're not particularly intelligent are you? This isn't a matter of opinion, it's empirical. I think he was just flaming. Obviously the guy is B+ ez. During Korean hours. With one hand.
Is it suddenly cool to be a cynical bastard?
get a fucking life
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On January 12 2010 06:18 never_toss wrote:Show nested quote +On January 12 2010 05:30 Attritive wrote:On January 12 2010 02:53 Ganfei wrote:On January 11 2010 20:34 writer22816 wrote:
lol
i watched your reps against G5
never had such a good laugh in my life
you're obviously D level tops. In fact I would say you're D- You're not particularly intelligent are you? This isn't a matter of opinion, it's empirical. I think he was just flaming. Obviously the guy is B+ ez. During Korean hours. With one hand. Is it suddenly cool to be a cynical bastard? get a fucking life
If I was just trolling that would have been great.
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On January 12 2010 06:18 never_toss wrote:Show nested quote +On January 12 2010 05:30 Attritive wrote:On January 12 2010 02:53 Ganfei wrote:On January 11 2010 20:34 writer22816 wrote:
lol
i watched your reps against G5
never had such a good laugh in my life
you're obviously D level tops. In fact I would say you're D- You're not particularly intelligent are you? This isn't a matter of opinion, it's empirical. I think he was just flaming. Obviously the guy is B+ ez. During Korean hours. With one hand. Is it suddenly cool to be a cynical bastard? get a fucking life
Pretty much. TL is very clique-ish now. As long as you are saying something that is in line with the main clique's view, you can swear as much as you want, be belligerent as much as you want, etc. Just don't try the same with an opposing view. It's just part of the process of a community's growth: as the length of time it has been around increases, the more important the core/old group of people become and the esteem they are held in / feel they can exercise.
Also I have no opinion on the OP of this thread.
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On January 11 2010 17:32 machinehead.. wrote:
I don't respect too many players, as players or people, but Day[9] is what is right in gaming. In short, it's hard to rationalize charging for teaching, when the best mind in the game -- Day[9] -- gives to a community, that somehow he likes (I guess), for free.
Since you seem to respect Day[9], I'm gonna say this one more time, in a way I hope that you can understand.
Day[9] recommends that beginning players focus on their mechanics before strategy. A quote from a transcript from his Mechanics Podcast:
"You know it's even kind of funny, because mechanics are so important that it sometimes can be detrimental to focus too much on strategy, especially for a beginning player, even though Starcraft is a real-time STRATEGY game. You'll end up with players who have a gimmick against each race, you know, they'll go lurker-ling fast against a Terran player, or they will go slow lurker drop against Protoss. They have all these different strategies, but they never focus on executing them very well. And then after a while when they're against sufficiently strong opponents, such players will end up having no options: none of their strategies work. And it's at times like these when players feel particularly lost in their play, and that's just a terrible feeling that I don't wish for anyone. However, if players focus on mechanics, not only do they end up being able to beat better and better opponents, but the strategy becomes much deeper. Because now, with things being executed so well, there's all of a sudden great options, I mean, having players be able to control vultures really well against Zerg has opened up an entire arena of mech play against Zerg players."
(http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=99950)
So, once more with gusto, the TARGET audience for whom you offered to teach in the first place (D-C) usually need help with their basic mechanics, etc. Of course theorycrafting and new ideas can help a lot, but mechanics play a huge role at that level. A B might have a BO loss to a D, but the B, with greater control and macro, can usually make a comeback over the D.
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wow, your reps are amazing, and they are all on python! what are your rates??
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On January 12 2010 06:28 cz wrote:Show nested quote +On January 12 2010 06:18 never_toss wrote:On January 12 2010 05:30 Attritive wrote:On January 12 2010 02:53 Ganfei wrote:On January 11 2010 20:34 writer22816 wrote:
lol
i watched your reps against G5
never had such a good laugh in my life
you're obviously D level tops. In fact I would say you're D- You're not particularly intelligent are you? This isn't a matter of opinion, it's empirical. I think he was just flaming. Obviously the guy is B+ ez. During Korean hours. With one hand. Is it suddenly cool to be a cynical bastard? get a fucking life Pretty much. TL is very clique-ish now. As long as you are saying something that is in line with the main clique's view, you can swear as much as you want, be belligerent as much as you want, etc. Just don't try the same with an opposing view. It's just part of the process of a community's growth: as the length of time it has been around increases, the more important the core/old group of people become and the esteem they are held in / feel they can exercise. Also I have no opinion on the OP of this thread.
Ah...you type so much and say so little.
It's funny how the guy who doesn't fit into the "clique" is the one being belligerent and cussing, and the guy he's responding to (me) has about 45 posts.
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EPT
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