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On January 09 2010 06:37 CaucasianAsian wrote:Show nested quote +On January 09 2010 04:32 iamtt1 wrote:On January 08 2010 14:50 CaucasianAsian wrote:On January 08 2010 14:42 machinehead.. wrote:
Listen, I don't join teams cause I don't see the point and I don't like 99% of the people in the SC community. The last thing I would want is to make friends with most of the "good" players in the US. If you act like an idiot -- I don't have a reason to care for your existence. If you are a reasonable person who isn't a d-bag (not a hard thing to do), then I have no problems with you and I would be the opposite of rude to you. It's not my call, it's a reflection of how you act. People will get treated how they deserve. I'm sorry but you sound like an egotistical bastard. If you keep going about how amazing you are and that you can teach people for a price (which you have never stated) then go for it. But you are going a about it the wrong way. Saying you have beaten top players (by cheesing) isn't the way to do it. If you want to teach people, then teach people what they want to learn. People want to learn the fundamentals of starcraft, good macro, good micro, the right timings, etc... Which iNControl can teach very well, because he plays what people call 'standard' very very well. You on the other hand, don't seem to grasp the fundamentals that people want to learn. Until you can prove that you have such skills, I can assure you that you won't get anyone who wants to learn from you. Everyone can learn how to cheese, but they aren't getting any better at the game, which is what they WANT to do. They don't want to learn how to beat someone good by a surprise build, they want to learn how to beat them good straight up. They want to walk over their peers with superior knowledge of the game, amazing macro and breathtaking micro. They don't want to do some cheesey build that will get them a nice looking letter. For your own sake, prove that you have the knowledge of the game that people will pay for. Not some cheese builds, as they can just watch TT1's replay pack for that! your a clown, be quiet please haha, sorry if that was hurtful. I didn't mean for it to sound demeaning towards you at all. I just meant that you have a few cheeses in that rep pack, like a few proxy gates PvT on HBR and PvP on destination. I'm still a fan 
oh wow while i was taking my shower it hit me that i was confusing you with puertorican lol, sorry caucasian i actually cant believe i mixed the two of you up.. i remember you from brainclan
i was initially thinking "wtf why is this puertorican guy randomly calling me out.. i dont even like him"
+ Show Spoiler +i think my mind secretly wanted it to be puertorican
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stop think that he can do something ROFL
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On January 09 2010 08:35 machinehead.. wrote:Show nested quote +On January 09 2010 06:17 avilo wrote:On January 08 2010 15:42 machinehead.. wrote:
Avilo I used to be in nex with you -- you are one of the worst players I know. I used to beat you in tvt repeatedly, despite not even being a tvt player, and all you could talk about is how you should teach me TVT cause I'm bad at it. You are not a smart guy. Ah, I see, you are NeX-Playa. I remember you from years ago from U.S. East op nex-, used to play with you too. Wonder why you don't go by that username on here. guess you're a machinehead AND a hard head now... You were a good player from what I remember when I was active, very damn good PvT game, except I only remember you going DT into arbiter every game...but dude, you are not going to win anyone over to your side with how you are posting so arrogant on here, let alone with no solid "credentials." Especially if you are offering to teach. I remember you basically went DT opening EVERY single PvT game into fast arbiter, and dude, I am remembering this from YEARS ago, from 2004+ as you say, and if that is all you are still doing now (from what people described from watching your rep pack), I do not know how much you improved since then...lmao... No one is going to take you serious on TL unless you have more serious "credentials" like A rank iccup, showing good games on stream, or unless you post a rep pack with good standard and strong play...shit like that. It don't think it helps your cause much that even I, an "unknown" as well in the SC community remember you from years ago and your best match-up was PvT because you'd go DT every game into fast arbiter, and that you always said you had "sick TvZ" because "tvz was imbalanced and 'easy'." You said that in 2006 too lol... On January 09 2010 00:15 Pr0terg wrote:
For all of you that don't know who I am, I am [Pan]Gretorp. I play completely theoretical based, and rely on being smart in my game play since my execution sucks T.T I've known machinehead for at least 5 years now, and I have learned a majority of my theoretical Starcraft from him.
Throughout playing machinehead.. as long as i've ever known him, I've never seen him cheese once. He's the one that taught me never to cheese in any type of practice game, and explained to me the fundamentals of effective learning. I have no clue what people are talking about and it's really sad to keep hearing that.
His play style is unorthodox at sometimes but it's never to get a build order win. He plays deliberately, and the majority of people don't understand the reasoning which is why people discredit his play. In reality, he plays extremely smart imo.
It boils down to this:
There are those that think he's not qualified to teach.
There exists no qualification to teach. a D+ could teach a D, and a D could teach a D+. Mike Tison's coach could never beat Mike Tison, but this mean does not mean he shouldn't bother with a trainer.
There are those that discredit his rank, mechanics, knowledge of "standard play"/theoretical understanding.
There isn't much I can say for this other than I can vouch that he probably understands this game more than the majority of players. In my opinion his rank is correct although rank is just an arbitrary indicator of approximate skill. However, anyone that can get B+ is going to be theoretically stronger than the majority, generally.
I do believe he is being victimized, as people are unnecessarily harsh right off the bat. Do I believe there could be better ways of marketing his product, yes, however people are being extremely rude and delegitimizing his service because of that.
As for skill, theory, and ability to explain and teach, I think machinehead is strong still since I have talked with him about this many of times throughout the years. I've played with him twice recently and went 1-1 with him. He's still capable of strong mechanics.
As for marketing, D- :O!
However, I don't think the people trolling this is helping anyone. I remember you as well from nex pr0terg, I agree playa is a good player...but how can you say you have never seen him cheese lol? Basically 90% of his PvT he goes DT lol...of course I cannot say if he improved that, but people are saying that his reppack is mostly cheese games...so I will not be the judge of that. He is strong player, but yes, perhaps he should take some marketing and people relations courses @_@ My pvt actually used to be my worst matchup -- it only improved because I had to practice only pvt for a WCG regionals against nesh and evade (both terrans). It was the last time I took it seriously at really improving, so the result was my pvt was my new best mu. Tvp was my best matchup, but it's anything but fun to play so I pretty much stopped playing against P untill recently I tried out pvp. The reason my pvt is "gay" is because I was decent at tvp; It's incredibly easy to play against standard pvt players compared to players that really abuse the "imbalances" of pvt. If you want to win pvt games, you have no business playing anything close to standard unless you have the mechanics of a Nony type player.
Um, well now I do not know if you are just bullshitting or saving face. Because you always seemed best at PvT lmao and you literally almost always went DT or other non-standard stuff. Not to mention you basically ONLY played PvT from what I remember lmao...
And no business playing standard? Are you joking man? People WANT to get better at the game and standard play is how you get better. If you are teaching someone Chess, you do not start teaching some magical metagame counters to specific openings that they have no knowledge of, and you do not teach them fools mate to beat noobies. You teach them the kings pawn opening for a reason, and that is to develop their game so they don't find out that they end up crippled later on when they are trying to improve because they only knew the cheese.
I am not saying playing non-standard builds should never be done, we all obviously know otherwise, but just lmao you want to teach people and then say people have no business playing pvt standard? Do YOU know how to play Standard? From reading this thread, I highly question that you do know how (whether you do or not). Standard play and mechanics is what improves skill, not cheese and "gayness" and being "strategical." That's something you can add in your game later when you have mechanics/understanding of the metagame/etc...
and even in the case that this could have had potential, you really did not win everyone over with your personality and how you were posting -.-
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No offense but it's retarded to think you can't improve your mechanics even if you are playing "non-standard." You still need to micro and macro, simply more emphasis is put on tactics to get you an advantage. People have no business playing standard PVT because it hardly challenges the Terran player. You need to know the matchup very in-depth and have better mechanics than your opponent to win. Why do you think Idra doesn't mind playing against standard toss players? Solid terrans feast on standard players.
Nothing I said was a lie... so I can't really say I care about what you recall.
The game is always evolving -- what is "standard" today is not always standard tomorrow. It's something that is highly overblown. Even in pvt, are you really cheesing someone when you never proxy your tech because you don't care if they know? I could care less if someone knows my opening, because it's anything but all-in.
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I don`t know if I should laugh or cry or if Machinehead is even serious....
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On January 09 2010 18:07 Oystein wrote:
I don`t know if I should laugh or cry or if Machinehead is even serious....
Well online he is a very angry and aggressive person but in turn based posting he is a passive and stupid.
I finally remembered his other banned account names, this is OBVIOUSLY a troll now. Gretorp is completely trolling too
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On January 09 2010 09:52 iamtt1 wrote:Show nested quote +On January 09 2010 06:37 CaucasianAsian wrote:On January 09 2010 04:32 iamtt1 wrote:On January 08 2010 14:50 CaucasianAsian wrote:On January 08 2010 14:42 machinehead.. wrote:
Listen, I don't join teams cause I don't see the point and I don't like 99% of the people in the SC community. The last thing I would want is to make friends with most of the "good" players in the US. If you act like an idiot -- I don't have a reason to care for your existence. If you are a reasonable person who isn't a d-bag (not a hard thing to do), then I have no problems with you and I would be the opposite of rude to you. It's not my call, it's a reflection of how you act. People will get treated how they deserve. I'm sorry but you sound like an egotistical bastard. If you keep going about how amazing you are and that you can teach people for a price (which you have never stated) then go for it. But you are going a about it the wrong way. Saying you have beaten top players (by cheesing) isn't the way to do it. If you want to teach people, then teach people what they want to learn. People want to learn the fundamentals of starcraft, good macro, good micro, the right timings, etc... Which iNControl can teach very well, because he plays what people call 'standard' very very well. You on the other hand, don't seem to grasp the fundamentals that people want to learn. Until you can prove that you have such skills, I can assure you that you won't get anyone who wants to learn from you. Everyone can learn how to cheese, but they aren't getting any better at the game, which is what they WANT to do. They don't want to learn how to beat someone good by a surprise build, they want to learn how to beat them good straight up. They want to walk over their peers with superior knowledge of the game, amazing macro and breathtaking micro. They don't want to do some cheesey build that will get them a nice looking letter. For your own sake, prove that you have the knowledge of the game that people will pay for. Not some cheese builds, as they can just watch TT1's replay pack for that! your a clown, be quiet please haha, sorry if that was hurtful. I didn't mean for it to sound demeaning towards you at all. I just meant that you have a few cheeses in that rep pack, like a few proxy gates PvT on HBR and PvP on destination. I'm still a fan oh wow while i was taking my shower it hit me that i was confusing you with puertorican lol, sorry caucasian i actually cant believe i mixed the two of you up.. i remember you from brainclan i was initially thinking "wtf why is this puertorican guy randomly calling me out.. i dont even like him" + Show Spoiler +i think my mind secretly wanted it to be puertorican
pr's been banned for a long time
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On January 09 2010 18:14 AttackZerg wrote:Show nested quote +On January 09 2010 18:07 Oystein wrote:
I don`t know if I should laugh or cry or if Machinehead is even serious.... Well online he is a very angry and aggressive person but in turn based posting he is a passive and stupid. I finally remembered his other banned account names, this is OBVIOUSLY a troll now. Gretorp is completely trolling too
I finally remembered what you said after you lost a game; Got called "stupid" for using the bisu build in pvz... So not only was I not a pvz player, but I played standard at the time. You have already proven yourself to be a joke.
If you suggest you will teach someone a style you like to play, it's pretty hard to not be able to help them at the d through c ranks, unless you forget how you play and why you do this and that. For people that can't understand that, it's a shame you have wasted people's breath on you.
Instead of random snide remarks, actually attack what is being said. For example, why should most foreign players be playing standard pvt?
This might be news to some, but terran is stronger at max than toss is; Playing standard will usually give a terran the chance to attack when he wants to attack and not have to spend minerals on static defense until he can afford to do so. When you use dt/reaver fast arbiter bo's, you usually force the player into "paying for your units," as in if he makes turrets you don't even have a burden of damaging him -- but it's easy to still kill units through harass or using a reaver for killing a push.
The response to fast arbiter is one of two things: 1) an attack at a time the terran doesn't want to, but he feels forced to, but the bo is designed to crush this attack -- so I don't care. 2) He just takes his third and mass turrets his main. This mass turreting will come at a time that will gravely hurt his eco, enabling you to take the map because he can't possibly keep up with you in macro.
The problem in tvp is that it takes sooo much minerals to counter what P want's to do, but it takes P very little to counter you. Terran can spend over 1k of minerals on turrets, and toss can simply research hallucination (I do this) and it nullifies it. IMO, I think an early wraith into a vessel at midgame transition with keying on emping the first arbiter so you don't have to cripple yourself is one of the better strategies in tvp.
A good pvt strategy focuses on making terrans spend a lot on static D, so they can't have the minerals to invest in units to do a push that is strong enough kill you before you have arbiters. A good tvp strategy is one that counters the p strategy while using the minimal amount of resources.
Standard pvt misses lots of opportunities to get an edge.
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I would like to further reiterate the importance of delaying the mass turret making. If you are playing against a standard arbiter timing and you have gone the wraith or gollie route to ensure you have a big army, quite often you are going to want to push the toss player for the sole purpose of making him use stasis on your units for him to not die. When you do this, you have bought yourself a lot of time and you can come back for an attack when you are close to an unstoppable supply number, and then mass turret your main. If you macro'd well, 1 stasis isn't going to mean jack at a standard arbiter timing.
Also, for terran players out there looking for a foreign terran to take some things away from their play, I would recommend A2 (his play is always very smart) and Marwin (he really impressed me during tsl). As far as teaching... I think of myself as a eco player that likes to capitalize on others mistakes. IMO, if you want more aggressive strategies that force the other player into a bad spot, then gretorp is a great guy. He can play both ways, but he has that dimension that was never my personal preference of play.
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Korea (South)11583 Posts
On January 09 2010 09:52 iamtt1 wrote:Show nested quote +On January 09 2010 06:37 CaucasianAsian wrote:On January 09 2010 04:32 iamtt1 wrote:On January 08 2010 14:50 CaucasianAsian wrote:On January 08 2010 14:42 machinehead.. wrote:
Listen, I don't join teams cause I don't see the point and I don't like 99% of the people in the SC community. The last thing I would want is to make friends with most of the "good" players in the US. If you act like an idiot -- I don't have a reason to care for your existence. If you are a reasonable person who isn't a d-bag (not a hard thing to do), then I have no problems with you and I would be the opposite of rude to you. It's not my call, it's a reflection of how you act. People will get treated how they deserve. I'm sorry but you sound like an egotistical bastard. If you keep going about how amazing you are and that you can teach people for a price (which you have never stated) then go for it. But you are going a about it the wrong way. Saying you have beaten top players (by cheesing) isn't the way to do it. If you want to teach people, then teach people what they want to learn. People want to learn the fundamentals of starcraft, good macro, good micro, the right timings, etc... Which iNControl can teach very well, because he plays what people call 'standard' very very well. You on the other hand, don't seem to grasp the fundamentals that people want to learn. Until you can prove that you have such skills, I can assure you that you won't get anyone who wants to learn from you. Everyone can learn how to cheese, but they aren't getting any better at the game, which is what they WANT to do. They don't want to learn how to beat someone good by a surprise build, they want to learn how to beat them good straight up. They want to walk over their peers with superior knowledge of the game, amazing macro and breathtaking micro. They don't want to do some cheesey build that will get them a nice looking letter. For your own sake, prove that you have the knowledge of the game that people will pay for. Not some cheese builds, as they can just watch TT1's replay pack for that! your a clown, be quiet please haha, sorry if that was hurtful. I didn't mean for it to sound demeaning towards you at all. I just meant that you have a few cheeses in that rep pack, like a few proxy gates PvT on HBR and PvP on destination. I'm still a fan oh wow while i was taking my shower it hit me that i was confusing you with puertorican lol, sorry caucasian i actually cant believe i mixed the two of you up.. i remember you from brainclan i was initially thinking "wtf why is this puertorican guy randomly calling me out.. i dont even like him" + Show Spoiler +i think my mind secretly wanted it to be puertorican
I thought I played you a few times on Brainclan, that was a long while back, after PGT and before ICCUP i think? I remember not believing you were A rank, and then I obsed you play some people who always crushed me and you just destroyed them. haha oh good times.
I don't know if it's an insult or not if you confused me with PuertoRican lol. oh well. I'll be cheering for you in TSL.
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summary of thread : people criticizing machinehead.. for being an idiot, then he responds making excuses for why he's not an idiot, but he is so stupid that in the process of doing so he makes people think he's even stupider.
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I can't believe your still trying xd
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HAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHHA...
hahahaHAHAHAHAHAAHHAHAHAHA
I thought it was impossible for you to go lower machinehead, but damn, you're good at being retarded.
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this thread is really turning into a flamewar hating machinehead?
who is he anyways , akas?
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You guys are moronic. It's cool if incontrol, gretorp and etc offer to teach others, but yet I can't when one of those people has already stated that I have helped him...
A c+ player could help people through d and c ranks... If I wanted to reach the level of 1/2 in poker, it probably would make sense to get help from someone who is already at that level, even if he isn't playing the highest stakes/the best player.
Grumbo, I would love to hear what your iccup rank is. You are obviously a smart guy, so you must have no problem winning games due to it.
Not one of you has a counter to what I have suggested. Why? Because you are too fucking stupid to do so. You guys don't even understand how to play the game as it is, so there is no way in hell for you to dissect it.
How many foreign players can play tvp and pvt at an A- level? How many are offering to teach? I can assure you I don't play at that level by operating at the same level of some posters in this thread.
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Guys, it took me months of playing SC to get b-. How many years has it taken most of you? My mechanics are not great, my apm is less than 200, so how exactly can it be? You guys need to realize how little you know.
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You know, pokerstrategy.com gives you kinda free 50$ startoff, so you dont need to rip off noobs to get some starting cash for poker ^^
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On January 11 2010 07:13 ProoM wrote:
You know, pokerstrategy.com gives you kinda free 50$ startoff, so you dont need to rip off noobs to get some starting cash for poker ^^
First of all, last time I checked that offer excluded people from USA. Second of all, I haven't even listed a price, as making a lot was never a goal for me.
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Unless someone really wanted help, I'm probably going to just focus on poker and forget about my offer. I've never wanted attention. I've never wanted to be seen as a good player. The opinions of others have never mattered much to me. I've never respected the majority enough -- I just do my own thing. There isn't a big payoff for being good in SC, but teachers hardly work for free; the price should simply reflect that.
I talked about releasing a pvp rep pack in the upcoming days, but sadly Bisu was right... 2 gate is the best bo on python in pvp, and that is anything but interesting. Since playing more casually and not joining teams, I have mainly stuck to playing the most used and most standard maps. I thought about playing some tvp games to help the d through c players, but selfishly I just have no interest in playing it (if I can recover some replays that I have deleted I might upload).
Some of you are either really good at trolling, or your biggest fear is looking gullible. I'd rather be open to being gullible than to be so close-minded that nothing beneficial could enter. Some things are obvious...
I don't respect too many players, as players or people, but Day[9] is what is right in gaming. In short, it's hard to rationalize charging for teaching, when the best mind in the game -- Day[9] -- gives to a community, that somehow he likes (I guess), for free.
Anyone that speaks loudly can be known. Personally, I fear what is known more often than the contrary.
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EPT
