|
On January 01 2010 13:08 Zoler wrote:Show nested quote +On January 01 2010 12:45 Hinanawi wrote:On January 01 2010 11:44 Abyzou wrote:This thread sure went as expected. Can I have a good nuke mods? I love Boxer way too much to say no. Also, in case I didn't mention it? Flash is cancer and TL is full of frothing fanboys who eat that shit up. Oh and people who like 'loli', aka cartoon child pornography, and think it should be legalized. Totally cool dudes, see the attached image for my reaction. It's true Best's loss prompted me to write this - I couldn't sleep because it was nagging me, so I had to post it. I've felt this way for a fucking long ass time though. You're definitely correct in that JD is just as 'bad' as Flash is, however, he is at least somewhat charismatic, he has a much better understanding of how to communicate with fans and just plain being an ambassador of SC, just like Boxer was/is. That's why I like him. He has heart. And fuckin' sick dance moves. Also lol'd at the PM I got from someone, I feel so offended that someone dares message me and call me a retard. Happy new years, you delightful queers. I've had some good fucking food and wine. <: Adios. So, to sum things up: -You don't like Flash. -You admit that everything you said about Flash applies to Jaedong as well, making you a hypocrite. -You got so butthurt over Flash beating Best that you lost sleep over it. (just ROFLMAO) -Then you call the rest of us 'pathetic' Also IdrA just completely wrecked your shit. But really man, you might want to seriously consider taking a break from SC watching if you can actually get so upset at a player that he makes you LOSE SLEEP. To anyone else in this thread who is worried about Flash 'dominating SC', jesus people, it's only been like 2 months since Flash turned godmode on. Jaedong had a much longer reign and I didn't see anyone claiming "It's over, Brood War is finished, Jaedong broke the game" Players will adapt, Flash's godmode will turn off eventually, life will go on. Feels like Jaedongs reign was weaker than this tho and somethings telling me Flash isn't gonna stop for a while.
On January 01 2010 13:04 MountainDewJunkie wrote:
Flash hasn't even won anything yet this season
|
hes still won 90% of his games in two months and shattered the elo record. So hes still dominated harder than jaedong ever has, though its not really a "reign" [though, neither was jaedongs, as he never dominated every league.]
|
Complaining about the players having no personality or being uncharismatic is stupid. The only way to accomplish anything in SC is to completely sacrifice all the normal aspects of human life and become a machine. If they don't, they won't win matches and you'll never even see them on TV.
The players are robots who spend all their time glued to their monitor slaving away for little to no reward. It's pretty hard to expect a nerdy kid who has no free time to do anything but play Starcraft and has experienced nothing else in life to be very interesting. Even the way they high-five each other in celebration after they win a match is just routine. They're probably more relieved that they didn't fail than truly happy about the win.
|
Nice opinion OP, I'll respectfully disagree on almost every front 
You get out of Starcraft what you put into it. It being a -game- and all, most people don't put a lot into it, and certainly don't get a lot out of it. And, No, losing 10 games in a row and then smashing your keyboard isn't putting -anything- into the game.
Flash's specific strategies are his and yes, they're not as fun to watch as say, Iris's strategies. What makes Starcraft so amazing is that there are such a wide variety of viable strategies... Yea boxer's old strategies aren't viable anymore because even a B-team progamer has evolved to counter those strategies with sheer multitasking. The game has advanced a lot in a good way in my opinion.
To me it almost sounds as if you want baseball teams to start focusing on strictly hitting home runs because it's fun. Get Real. My 2 cents.
EDIT: I also find your comment that starcraft is "near" solved ridiculous... One could argue that Chess is slightly more simple version of Starcraft (not really, but enough to make this point) Chess has been played for too long and is not going to be solved. 9 handed 200 big blind poker isn't getting solved either. Sure 1big blind HU is insta solved. Just because it's not OMFG HOW DID HE DO THAT amazing fun to watch doesn't mean anything... Players are still improving everyday... Micromanagement itself is essentially "unsolvable" and that's without a real layer of strategy. Come on. You're more than vastly over simplifying the trend your observing and then bending it to your point.
|
On January 01 2010 11:53 MrHoon wrote:
lol so many flash fans in TL
If I heard this 2 years ago I would've died laughing
Y'all are bandwagoners.
You know people haven't been Flash fans for that long when they're already counting his titles before he gets them.
Yes this is the best he's ever looked with the possible exception of Feb-May 2008 (and even then probably not), but the lonely band of early Flash fans have been down this road before.
Now, those of us who've been his fans since the early days are just hoping with all our might that something horrible doesn't happen like, oh, the last 4 seasons.
|
the reason he lost the other times was exhaustion and stubbornness. Flash isn't over worked and hes playing with a variety of styles. This is easily the best Flash has ever looked. If he doesnt win now, he never will. I cant imagine him being in a better situation in the future tbh.
|
On December 31 2009 23:29 TwoToneTerran wrote:
So you say you cared about the old idols, yet you chastize Flash for winning with safe, "mechanical" play?
Nada was nothing but pure mechanical play. Oov invented boring, safe standard, Savior did the same for zerg. ....
Savior who was known for not building sunkens and defending only with lings? Sorry, I don't buy your line there.
|
On January 01 2010 11:53 MrHoon wrote:
lol so many flash fans in TL
If I heard this 2 years ago I would've died laughing
Y'all are bandwagoners.
+1 seems most of TL from what I have seen jumps from players they like alot.
I started Starcraft back in May didnt' even know who was pro and all that stuff but I have always had a fond liking of Jaedong's style and zero's. Those 2 will always be my top 2 favorite zergs ^^.
|
A year ago  Calm wasn't even a .500 player. Now he's a top 10 player, top 3 Zerg, an MSL winner, and in the OSL semis. Stuff like that is why you should follow Starcraft.
|
On January 01 2010 13:08 Zoler wrote:Show nested quote +On January 01 2010 12:45 Hinanawi wrote:On January 01 2010 11:44 Abyzou wrote:This thread sure went as expected. Can I have a good nuke mods? I love Boxer way too much to say no. Also, in case I didn't mention it? Flash is cancer and TL is full of frothing fanboys who eat that shit up. Oh and people who like 'loli', aka cartoon child pornography, and think it should be legalized. Totally cool dudes, see the attached image for my reaction. It's true Best's loss prompted me to write this - I couldn't sleep because it was nagging me, so I had to post it. I've felt this way for a fucking long ass time though. You're definitely correct in that JD is just as 'bad' as Flash is, however, he is at least somewhat charismatic, he has a much better understanding of how to communicate with fans and just plain being an ambassador of SC, just like Boxer was/is. That's why I like him. He has heart. And fuckin' sick dance moves. Also lol'd at the PM I got from someone, I feel so offended that someone dares message me and call me a retard. Happy new years, you delightful queers. I've had some good fucking food and wine. <: Adios. So, to sum things up: -You don't like Flash. -You admit that everything you said about Flash applies to Jaedong as well, making you a hypocrite. -You got so butthurt over Flash beating Best that you lost sleep over it. (just ROFLMAO) -Then you call the rest of us 'pathetic' Also IdrA just completely wrecked your shit. But really man, you might want to seriously consider taking a break from SC watching if you can actually get so upset at a player that he makes you LOSE SLEEP. To anyone else in this thread who is worried about Flash 'dominating SC', jesus people, it's only been like 2 months since Flash turned godmode on. Jaedong had a much longer reign and I didn't see anyone claiming "It's over, Brood War is finished, Jaedong broke the game" Players will adapt, Flash's godmode will turn off eventually, life will go on. Feels like Jaedongs reign was weaker than this tho and somethings telling me Flash isn't gonna stop for a while.
Jaedong's reign was definitely weaker. That's sort of to be expected when your best matchup will sometimes leave you at a disadvantage just because your opponent chose right. As far as I can tell, Flash looks so dominant because just by playing to his strengths he winds up with the advantage a build-order advantage gives Jaedong -in every game-.
|
On January 01 2010 13:53 dogabutila wrote:Show nested quote +On December 31 2009 23:29 TwoToneTerran wrote:
So you say you cared about the old idols, yet you chastize Flash for winning with safe, "mechanical" play?
Nada was nothing but pure mechanical play. Oov invented boring, safe standard, Savior did the same for zerg. .... Savior who was known for not building sunkens and defending only with lings? Sorry, I don't buy your line there.
When he didn't build sunkens, he didn't rely on the terran to not attack him. He could safely afford to do so because he delayed the terran somehow long enough. You see that in some ZvTs nowadays, Zergs are able to forgo sunkens if the terran is prevented from moving out quickly enough.
|
Kind of agree with the op. I found starcraft a lot more exciting 3-4 years ago but then again that could probably be attributed to the fact that I was new to the competitive scene back then.
|
It's difficult for any game to constantly deliver new surprises. This game is over 10 years old. Do you really think that there are any new strategems left to be discovered? That strategies are still evolving and that small gems are still being found are testaments to the amazingness of this game.
I do agree that strategies are no longer "new" because they have "settled" and players are now playing a game primarily of optimization, not innovation -- your main point. But I still think that watching players perform these optimizations is very entertaining. Jaedong's muta micro is beastly. Flash's management is unworldly. They may not be innovative, but they're darned good at what they do and it's an honor to behold. And besides -- there IS still a LITTLE bit of innovation here and there. Some are map dependent, some are not. I think ZvT and PvZ can still improve a little bit more through innovation.
On a long time horizon though, the players will be the only "new" parts of the game. From analyzing the allure of this game, I've made a couple conclusions about sports in general. Really, it's the players that deliver. The game will get old (how old is chess?) but the meta-game and the players will always deliver a fresh insight.
It's a relief that Starcraft is complex enough for new strategies to come out now and then, even if the rate has decreased over the years.
|
There was so much I wanted to say to the OP but it as all been said in some excellent posts.
If it wasn't for the fact that he is full of rage I would almost feel bad for the OP for getting hammered this badly.
|
Some people can derive entertainment from the nuances of management play and the thought that goes into it. Some people can only derive entertainment from stylish plays, such as the kind Leta does all the time.
A lot of people can't enjoy TvT because they don't appreciate the thought behind every decision and the strategical nature of it, whereas a match-up with a lot of obvious tactics and aggression like TvZ or PvZ is generally loved.
I don't want to say one crowd understands the game and the other doesn't, but I think someone who truly understands StarCraft is more likely to appreciate that management style. Players like iloveoov and FlaSh are definitely innovative, just not in a flashy and obvious way.
|
On January 01 2010 14:59 DoctorHelvetica wrote:
Some people can derive entertainment from the nuances of management play and the thought that goes into it. Some people can only derive entertainment from stylish plays, such as the kind Leta does all the time.
A lot of people can't enjoy TvT because they don't appreciate the thought behind every decision and the strategical nature of it, whereas a match-up with a lot of obvious tactics and aggression like TvZ or PvZ is generally loved.
I don't want to say one crowd understands the game and the other doesn't, but I think someone who truly understands StarCraft is more likely to appreciate that management style. Players like iloveoov and FlaSh are definitely innovative, just not in a flashy and obvious way.
I'm terrible at Starcraft and I love watching TvT and other matchups where positioning and management make a huge difference.
|
Why is this thread still alive?
|
yea you just sound like a noob man gl go play wc3
|
On January 01 2010 14:06 jalstar wrote:A year ago Calm wasn't even a .500 player. Now he's a top 10 player, top 3 Zerg, an MSL winner, and in the OSL semis. Stuff like that is why you should follow Starcraft.
Calm wasn't a TOP zerg a year ago but a very dependable zerg in the STX line up. A year ago, Calm had very good mirco but his macro seemed lacking, but still the zerg for STX (unlike Calm, July wasn't a zerg that can do all three match ups)
But yeah... I know this because I am a STX fan. If you don't follow the pro scene closely, you won't know these underrated players.
PS: Shine is a noob, wait until 2010 to see his fail.
|
United States47024 Posts
On January 01 2010 11:44 Abyzou wrote:
Also, in case I didn't mention it? Flash is cancer and TL is full of frothing fanboys who eat that shit up. Oh and people who like 'loli', aka cartoon child pornography, and think it should be legalized. Totally cool dudes, see the attached image for my reaction.
Of the 4 "S-Class" players, Flash is the most under-appreciated. Note that when Jaedong and Bisu start dominating, they get 3+ B-word threads apiece. How many has Flash had on his latest tear? Not one.
On January 01 2010 11:44 Abyzou wrote:
It's true Best's loss prompted me to write this - I couldn't sleep because it was nagging me, so I had to post it. I've felt this way for a fucking long ass time though. You're definitely correct in that JD is just as 'bad' as Flash is, however, he is at least somewhat charismatic, he has a much better understanding of how to communicate with fans and just plain being an ambassador of SC, just like Boxer was/is. That's why I like him. He has heart. And fuckin' sick dance moves.
1) How the hell is a subjective idea of the more "charismatic" player have any relevance to the decline of SC? One player, even the best player in the world, cannot have that big of an impact in merely 4 months, without having even won a title yet in that time.
2) You probably don't speak Korean, and you've never met Flash or Jaedong. How are you to judge which one is more personable or charismatic?
3) Jaedong is 20, Flash is 17. I'd expect Jaedong to have the more mature and composed image than Flash. It's no fault of Flash's that he acts as a 17-year-old does. You don't become the "Ambassador of E-sports" overnight. Hell, he's not even as old as Boxer was when he STARTED his career progamer.
On a slightly related note, it shocks me how people latch onto personality flaws of these progamers and fault them to no end for them. They're usually barely 20 years old. How many 20-year-old celebrities do you know that aren't dickheads or strange in some way or another?
EDIT: Reading your OP again, I wanted to comment on this:
On December 31 2009 22:55 Abyzou wrote:
It’s not all bad. But I think that Starcraft, at its core, is ephemeral, with a ticking clock that’s running out. It’s not as solid as a ‘real’ sport, because the game’s gotten (or is in the process of getting) figured out. There might be a few more "revolutions" to come but they’ll be minor. Maybe Dark Archons will become a staple of PvZ. Maybe Ghosts will gain a role in TvP. Maybe optical flare and restoration will find a place in certain builds. Or maybe Zerg will simply find new ways of raping even harder. The map rotation has done its part but it can only go so far in keeping it fresh.
"Real sports" aren't figured out? A dynamic metagame isn't just driven by big "revolutions". You don't see coaches rewriting their playbooks every season because someone entirely redefined how the game is played. They're pretty "figured out" too, if that's the standard you're going by.
|
|
|
|
|
|
EPT![[image loading]](http://upload.snelhest.org/images/1001011260509133752.jpg)
