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 Flash: "I still have to keep concentrating."
-How do you feel about winning in the Lee Ssang Rok* in the round of 8?
▲I was in a situation where I was up 1:0 so I thought that I had an advantage. Luckily, my strategy worked in game 2 as well so I was able to win.
-Was the bunker rush an improvised strategy?
▲No, it was a strategy that required considerable timing and preparation. That's why I prepared it very careful. I knew that it would work, so I pushed out confidently and I think that it turned out very well.
-Would it have been dangerous for you if your opponent didn't go 12hatch?
▲Even if he didn't go 12hatch, it would have been a usable strategy. Despite the early marine production, I knew where to scout to capture the overlords thanks to my preparation. Even if he decided to choose a different strategy, I still would have had a chance to win.
-The games in Lee Ssang Rok seem to be relatively short.
▲I think so too. Whenever we meet, the spiritual battle at the beginning of the game is very strong. Since the person who wins the spiritual battle pushes out strongly from the beginning, the games tend to be very short.
-Even though you won, you didn't seem very cheerful after the game.
▲Even though I won, it doesn't seem to be a satisfying victory. I still have a series tomorrow in the MSL Ro16 (day 4 vs zero) so I still have to keep concentrating. Today I was very nervous but once it dissipated, I let out a sigh that was apparently caught on camera. I guess that's why I didn't look that cheerful.
-There are many times in which the winner of LeeSsangRok went on to win in the finals.
▲It seems like a good maxim to me now. If I don't work hard, then a win is impossible and I don't look towards it as the final goal. For now, I'm satisfied with securing a seed for next season. However, I do feel that I should try my best to win, since I beat  Jaedong hyung.
-Who do you want to meet in the round of 4?
▲Personally, a zerg opponent would be most comfortable but since I'm close with  Pure hyung, I hope that he is able to advance. It would also be a good opportunity to play against Protoss for the first time in a long time.
-Do you have any last words?
▲Since it is Christmas and helping me practice would have been annoying, I would like to say thank you to HoeJJa hyung. I didn't expect so many fans to come out and watch me on Christmas. I remember that there were many fans at the Daum Starleague but it feels like there are twice the number now than there were then. I really want to thank them and I hope to repay their support.
*+ Show Spoiler +Lee Ssang Rok for Flash vs Jaedong like Lim Jin Rok is Boxer vs Yellow
Ssang means twins or a pair and both of their names have Lee as the last name.
Source: + Show Spoiler +
Calm: "I look forward to my first Bo5 against a Terran."
-How do you feel about advancing to the round of 4 of an OSL for the first time?
▲Although today is Christmas, I worked hard and I'm very happy about advancing. Since I spent my time practicing insteadFlash of being able to have fun, it would have felt very unfair to lose. My opponent in the round of 4 is Flash, so it will be very difficult, but I will make sure that I win.
-Do you have any special reason for the strategy you chose?
▲I just felt that if I did it, it would work. Even if I lost, I prepared even more carefully for a possible 3rd game, so I wasn't worried.
-There was a time when you might have been in trouble.
▲My opponent almost blocked my strategy, but I was able to eke out a win. Once I destroyed his cannons, I won.
-Your opponent for the round of 4 is Flash.
▲Since the Lee Ssang (twins) players are the two best players right now, it didn't really matter to me who won. I didn't really give much thought to their series. If Jaedong won, I would have had the opportunity to beat him again and if Flash won, I would be happy about beating the person who beat Jaedong. So either way, it doesn't really matter.
-Do you have any ambition to be the best Zerg player?
▲Of course. I am still not as good as Jaedong, but from now on, I will work to catch up to him.
-Since you won the MSL last season, you must want to win this OSL even more.
▲I wasn't able to be a Royal Roader for the MSL, but if I am able to do it for the OSL, I will be very happy. For now, I have to think about my games in the round of 4 so I will focus on that first. Since the format for the round of 4 is a best of 5 series, I will have to prepare even harder than before and I feel that my first Bo5 against a terran player will be very fun.
-Do you have any last words?
▲I would like to thank all the fans that came out, even though it's Christmas. Since the year is ending, I would like it if everyone will be able to settle their accounts and be able to stay happy in the new year. When I said settle their accounts, I also meant their year-end tax adjustments (laughs). + Show Spoiler +(not sure about this, if someone could clarify, that would be great)
Source:+ Show Spoiler +
Movie: "Since I'm still shaking**, I don't feel that much."
-How do you feel about reaching the round of 4 for the first time in your life?
▲Since I'm still shaking (from nerves), I don't feel that much. I made an effort to not shake too much and my manager even gave me a lot of good advice, but I think I lack too much experience. It's especially bad in Starleagues only. Since it's my first round of 4, I think that the Bo5 will be fun.
-You prepared a timing rush.
▲I was very nervous, so rather than thinking that I performed well, it was that my opponent was just as nervous as I was. Looking at the way he moved his zerglings at the beginning, I knew that I would be able to damage him with my zealots.
-Did you base your timing on his sim city?
▲During practice, there were several different situations in which I was able to damage my opponent and some in which I couldn't. A win is a win, but since I've been winning like this a lot lately, my teammates have been saying that I win too easily (too simple). It wasn't my intention, but I've become the object of their jealousy and envy (laughs).
-In the round of 4, would you rather face a protoss or a zerg?
▲It doesn't matter what race my opponent is but based on my past, I would rather play against a protoss or a terran, rather than a zerg. Although my record is the best against zerg in televised games, I feel more confident against other races, so I hope that the protoss advances.
-You revealed that you would wanted to play against Stork at the jojimyungshik (not sure what this is sorry).
▲At the time, Stork and I were the only protosses left in both leagues. I wanted to knock him out of a league so that I would be the only one left. I wanted to say that at the jojimyungshik, but I didn't have a chance to. I think it will be fun to meet Stork at the round of 4.
-Between the two players that qualified for the round of 4 already, there's a Royal Roader candidate.
▲It's been a while since I've played against a Terran. I haven't even gotten to play against many Terrans during proleague. So if I'm able to reach the finals, I want to meet Flash there.
-You have your first Bo5 in front of you.
▲Well, we still have proleague so I have to practice for proleague and practice for OSL whenever I have any spare time. As I prepare for the games ahead of me, if I set the mood, I will be able to do it.
-Do you have any last words?
▲I would like to thank Orion, EffOrt, Hydra and MIsO for helping me practice. I hope that my fans will be able to have an enjoyable Christmas. Since I have a game to practice for tomorrow, I doubt that I will have an enjoyable Christmas.
**+ Show Spoiler +It's not literally shaking from the cold or whatever, but it's that feeling you get when you win a really intense game on iccup or something.
Source: + Show Spoiler +
Shine: "During these three games, I was able to play my style."
-How do you feel about reaching the round of 4 for the first time in your life?
▲I looked forward to this series and I prepared a lot but as I entered, I was shocked to see the number of people in the stadium. I was very nervous, so I wasn't able to play the first game properly. But I was able to get to the round of 4 in the end, so I'm happy.
-Did you feel pressured by the many people who came to the stadium today?
▲When I first entered, I thought to myself "there really are a lot of people that came to watch today" so I was restless (like his heart fluttered) and happy but during the first game, I became aware that things weren't going the way I intended.
-In the 3rd set, you showed a strategical movement.
▲When I prepared for this series, I actually prepared two economical builds (macro-based). If I went for an aggressive build in the 2nd set, there wouldn't have been anything to get nervous about, but as I scouted and reacted to what my opponent was doing, I started becoming nervous. So in the third set, I decided not to go through with my prepared strategy since I thought that I should do something that fit my hands and my style instead. I just did what I felt like doing and it fit perfectly well. I feel that I should have just done this for the 2nd set instead.
-You will face Movie in the round of 4.
▲I've faced him before and since it's a ZvP, I feel very confident. But since it's my first dajunje, I have to prepare more carefully and work even harder.
-How do you feel about people judging you to be on equal terms with "taekbang" (bisu/stork)?
▲Rather than feel good about it, it burdens me. Although I have beaten those players before, when I lost to them, there have been many times in which I lost in a manner unsuitable for a progamer. Since I have to make up for these, it will be a long time before I feel that I'm ready to be consider to be at their level.
-When you got past the round of 36, did you ever think that you would make it to the round of 4?
▲There have been many times that I've reached the round of 36 and hoped to reach the round of 16, but I failed each time. But this time, as I reached each step, my spirit became an instrument that helped me advance.
-Your family always comes to support you.
▲It is a real source of strength to me. They always send me a supportive text message before a game. I feel my family's support directly, so when I prepare for games, rather than being neglectful, I am always able to keep pushing forward.
-Do you have any last words?
▲Although it's supposed to be a resting day, my teammates helped me and I would like to thank them for it. Since it's a holiday, many of my teammates went home. Moon hyung, a protoss, said that if I call him he would help, but he didn't pick up his phone (laughs). Since my next series is against a protoss, I hope he will be able to help me for that. Also, I hope everyone will have a great Christmas.
Source: + Show Spoiler +
Don't thank me, I'm only doing this because I couldn't get livestream up 
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what does rok mean? something close to showdown?
btw, thanks for the early translations!
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Was hoping for some quick translations, thanks for obliging!! :D
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-Would it have been dangerous for you if your opponent didn't go 12hatch?
▲Even if he didn't go 12hatch, it would have been a usable strategy. Despite the early marine production, I knew where to scout to capture the overlords thanks to my preparation. Even if he decided to choose a different strategy, I still would have had a chance to win.
Maybe people will stop discounting his victory now 
Thanks for the translation!
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Thanks for the quick translating. I don't know why he says he needs to continue to worry about ZerO. If the tyrany can't take him down, we have little hope that ZerO can.
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Thanks, can't wait to hear movie's
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GOOOOOOOOOOOO Cheese Young Ho!
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ARGH! I'm so mad at Shine! How dare you!
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On December 25 2009 20:54 Tyxiquale wrote:
what does rok mean? something close to showdown?
btw, thanks for the early translations!
rivalry
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-Was the bunker rush an improvised strategy?
▲No, it was a strategy that required considerable timing and preparation. That's why I prepared it very careful. I knew that it would work, so I pushed out confidently and I think that it turned out very well.
-Would it have been dangerous for you if your opponent didn't go 12hatch?
▲Even if he didn't go 12hatch, it would have been a usable strategy. Despite the early marine production, I knew where to scout to capture the overlords thanks to my preparation. Even if he decided to choose a different strategy, I still would have had a chance to win.
people calling 8 rax cheese need to read this and have a deep long think about what they're saying
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Dominican Republic825 Posts
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On December 25 2009 21:19 lazz wrote:Show nested quote +-Was the bunker rush an improvised strategy?
▲No, it was a strategy that required considerable timing and preparation. That's why I prepared it very careful. I knew that it would work, so I pushed out confidently and I think that it turned out very well.
-Would it have been dangerous for you if your opponent didn't go 12hatch?
▲Even if he didn't go 12hatch, it would have been a usable strategy. Despite the early marine production, I knew where to scout to capture the overlords thanks to my preparation. Even if he decided to choose a different strategy, I still would have had a chance to win. people calling 8 rax cheese need to read this and have a deep long think about what they're saying
Its cheese, but its perfected cheese. Thats why it worked.
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Please, Calm, roflmaostomp Flash in the next round
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On December 25 2009 21:19 lazz wrote:Show nested quote +-Was the bunker rush an improvised strategy?
▲No, it was a strategy that required considerable timing and preparation. That's why I prepared it very careful. I knew that it would work, so I pushed out confidently and I think that it turned out very well.
-Would it have been dangerous for you if your opponent didn't go 12hatch?
▲Even if he didn't go 12hatch, it would have been a usable strategy. Despite the early marine production, I knew where to scout to capture the overlords thanks to my preparation. Even if he decided to choose a different strategy, I still would have had a chance to win. people calling 8 rax cheese need to read this and have a deep long think about what they're saying
Hillarious.
He says he would have had a chanse to win. You have decent chanse to win even if you fail with 6 pool. So it's not cheese, right? (Oystein had a guide written on it iirc)
These rabid flashfans are so ridiculous, stating he did not cheese.
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On December 25 2009 21:21 DragoonPK wrote:Show nested quote +On December 25 2009 21:19 lazz wrote:-Was the bunker rush an improvised strategy?
▲No, it was a strategy that required considerable timing and preparation. That's why I prepared it very careful. I knew that it would work, so I pushed out confidently and I think that it turned out very well.
-Would it have been dangerous for you if your opponent didn't go 12hatch?
▲Even if he didn't go 12hatch, it would have been a usable strategy. Despite the early marine production, I knew where to scout to capture the overlords thanks to my preparation. Even if he decided to choose a different strategy, I still would have had a chance to win. people calling 8 rax cheese need to read this and have a deep long think about what they're saying Its cheese, but its perfected cheese. Thats why it worked.
It's not cheese though, because it's not all-in. He knew it would work. it had a definite pay off. that's not cheese.
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On December 25 2009 21:23 Geo.Rion wrote:Show nested quote +On December 25 2009 21:19 lazz wrote:-Was the bunker rush an improvised strategy?
▲No, it was a strategy that required considerable timing and preparation. That's why I prepared it very careful. I knew that it would work, so I pushed out confidently and I think that it turned out very well.
-Would it have been dangerous for you if your opponent didn't go 12hatch?
▲Even if he didn't go 12hatch, it would have been a usable strategy. Despite the early marine production, I knew where to scout to capture the overlords thanks to my preparation. Even if he decided to choose a different strategy, I still would have had a chance to win. people calling 8 rax cheese need to read this and have a deep long think about what they're saying Hillarious. He says he would have had a chanse to win. You have decent chanse to win even if you fail with 6 pool. So it's not cheese, right? (Oystein had a guide written on it iirc) These rabid flashfans are so ridiculous, stating he did not cheese.
Yeah Flash cheesed Jaedong. It was brilliant and he advanced. He also absolutely destroyed him straight up in game 1. I can't believe JD fans are still talking.
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On December 25 2009 21:23 lazz wrote:Show nested quote +On December 25 2009 21:21 DragoonPK wrote:On December 25 2009 21:19 lazz wrote:-Was the bunker rush an improvised strategy?
▲No, it was a strategy that required considerable timing and preparation. That's why I prepared it very careful. I knew that it would work, so I pushed out confidently and I think that it turned out very well.
-Would it have been dangerous for you if your opponent didn't go 12hatch?
▲Even if he didn't go 12hatch, it would have been a usable strategy. Despite the early marine production, I knew where to scout to capture the overlords thanks to my preparation. Even if he decided to choose a different strategy, I still would have had a chance to win. people calling 8 rax cheese need to read this and have a deep long think about what they're saying Its cheese, but its perfected cheese. Thats why it worked. It's not cheese though, because it's not all-in. He knew it would work. it had a definite pay off. that's not cheese.
ugh, there s been a long time since i saw some1 stating sg so obviously wrong with this dedication. I thhink it was taht finnish guy in PR like half a year ago. Just go to bed, kid.
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On December 25 2009 21:23 lazz wrote:Show nested quote +On December 25 2009 21:21 DragoonPK wrote:On December 25 2009 21:19 lazz wrote:-Was the bunker rush an improvised strategy?
▲No, it was a strategy that required considerable timing and preparation. That's why I prepared it very careful. I knew that it would work, so I pushed out confidently and I think that it turned out very well.
-Would it have been dangerous for you if your opponent didn't go 12hatch?
▲Even if he didn't go 12hatch, it would have been a usable strategy. Despite the early marine production, I knew where to scout to capture the overlords thanks to my preparation. Even if he decided to choose a different strategy, I still would have had a chance to win. people calling 8 rax cheese need to read this and have a deep long think about what they're saying Its cheese, but its perfected cheese. Thats why it worked. It's not cheese though, because it's not all-in. He knew it would work. it had a definite pay off. that's not cheese.
But Cheese doesn't have to be all-in, all-in is different. 5pool is cheese, but its still not all-in. well sort of..
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On December 25 2009 21:24 darktreb wrote:Show nested quote +On December 25 2009 21:23 Geo.Rion wrote:On December 25 2009 21:19 lazz wrote:-Was the bunker rush an improvised strategy?
▲No, it was a strategy that required considerable timing and preparation. That's why I prepared it very careful. I knew that it would work, so I pushed out confidently and I think that it turned out very well.
-Would it have been dangerous for you if your opponent didn't go 12hatch?
▲Even if he didn't go 12hatch, it would have been a usable strategy. Despite the early marine production, I knew where to scout to capture the overlords thanks to my preparation. Even if he decided to choose a different strategy, I still would have had a chance to win. people calling 8 rax cheese need to read this and have a deep long think about what they're saying Hillarious. He says he would have had a chanse to win. You have decent chanse to win even if you fail with 6 pool. So it's not cheese, right? (Oystein had a guide written on it iirc) These rabid flashfans are so ridiculous, stating he did not cheese. Yeah Flash cheesed Jaedong. It was brilliant and he advanced. He also absolutely destroyed him straight up in game 1. I can't believe JD fans are still talking.
Did you read that i said Flash does not deserve to advance? No. I say he cheesed, which is clear as the Sun, and i dont like ppl who say the white wall is black.
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I'll be rooting for a Calm vs Movie finals, even though that sounds like a crappy finals in terms of star power, they are both very good at the ZvP matchup.
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On December 25 2009 21:26 Geo.Rion wrote:Show nested quote +On December 25 2009 21:24 darktreb wrote:On December 25 2009 21:23 Geo.Rion wrote:On December 25 2009 21:19 lazz wrote:-Was the bunker rush an improvised strategy?
▲No, it was a strategy that required considerable timing and preparation. That's why I prepared it very careful. I knew that it would work, so I pushed out confidently and I think that it turned out very well.
-Would it have been dangerous for you if your opponent didn't go 12hatch?
▲Even if he didn't go 12hatch, it would have been a usable strategy. Despite the early marine production, I knew where to scout to capture the overlords thanks to my preparation. Even if he decided to choose a different strategy, I still would have had a chance to win. people calling 8 rax cheese need to read this and have a deep long think about what they're saying Hillarious. He says he would have had a chanse to win. You have decent chanse to win even if you fail with 6 pool. So it's not cheese, right? (Oystein had a guide written on it iirc) These rabid flashfans are so ridiculous, stating he did not cheese. Yeah Flash cheesed Jaedong. It was brilliant and he advanced. He also absolutely destroyed him straight up in game 1. I can't believe JD fans are still talking. Did you read that i said Flash does not deserve to advance? No. I say he cheesed, which is clear as the Sun, and i dont like ppl who say the white wall is black.
He cheesed, he won, he's also currently the better player - are we done here?
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On December 25 2009 21:28 darktreb wrote:Show nested quote +On December 25 2009 21:26 Geo.Rion wrote:On December 25 2009 21:24 darktreb wrote:On December 25 2009 21:23 Geo.Rion wrote:On December 25 2009 21:19 lazz wrote:-Was the bunker rush an improvised strategy?
▲No, it was a strategy that required considerable timing and preparation. That's why I prepared it very careful. I knew that it would work, so I pushed out confidently and I think that it turned out very well.
-Would it have been dangerous for you if your opponent didn't go 12hatch?
▲Even if he didn't go 12hatch, it would have been a usable strategy. Despite the early marine production, I knew where to scout to capture the overlords thanks to my preparation. Even if he decided to choose a different strategy, I still would have had a chance to win. people calling 8 rax cheese need to read this and have a deep long think about what they're saying Hillarious. He says he would have had a chanse to win. You have decent chanse to win even if you fail with 6 pool. So it's not cheese, right? (Oystein had a guide written on it iirc) These rabid flashfans are so ridiculous, stating he did not cheese. Yeah Flash cheesed Jaedong. It was brilliant and he advanced. He also absolutely destroyed him straight up in game 1. I can't believe JD fans are still talking. Did you read that i said Flash does not deserve to advance? No. I say he cheesed, which is clear as the Sun, and i dont like ppl who say the white wall is black. He cheesed, he won, he's also currently the better player - are we done here?
i think jaedong fans have a right to vent their frustration however ridiculous the delusional arguments may be,
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On December 25 2009 21:23 Geo.Rion wrote:Show nested quote +On December 25 2009 21:19 lazz wrote:-Was the bunker rush an improvised strategy?
▲No, it was a strategy that required considerable timing and preparation. That's why I prepared it very careful. I knew that it would work, so I pushed out confidently and I think that it turned out very well.
-Would it have been dangerous for you if your opponent didn't go 12hatch?
▲Even if he didn't go 12hatch, it would have been a usable strategy. Despite the early marine production, I knew where to scout to capture the overlords thanks to my preparation. Even if he decided to choose a different strategy, I still would have had a chance to win. people calling 8 rax cheese need to read this and have a deep long think about what they're saying Hillarious. He says he would have had a chanse to win. You have decent chanse to win even if you fail with 6 pool. So it's not cheese, right? (Oystein had a guide written on it iirc) These rabid flashfans are so ridiculous, stating he did not cheese.
whats your point? it totally depends on the map/matchup. proxy gate zealot rushing is not really a cheese opening in pvt on SOME maps but it is on others. 5pool isn't really a cheese in pvz on some maps, you just force the toss to abandon his expo and open with 1base
i dont think flash's build was cheese, because on the new HBR, due to that ovie snipe there is nothing jaedong could have done to guarantee a win, even if he went 9pool. the best he could have done was to survive the rush, and maybe be slightly ahead. Maybe a 4/5pool would've won but that's a silly counter argument
imo, a cheese build is one that is a guaranteed fail when the opponent does a certain build or scouts it. flash was in a position where he did NOT need the bunker rush to succeed in order to win. its jaedongs fault for dying to it
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That is a terrible picture of Flash. Seriously.
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Korea (South)3086 Posts
Calm is talking mad cocky. I hope he gets his ass stomped 3-0.
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If Flash left JD to play standard, I am 100% confident that JD would win the next 2 games. Give someone like Jaedong a bit of momentum and he will turn the tables around in a flash(get it lol!).
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On December 25 2009 21:31 SilverskY wrote:
Calm is talking mad cocky. I hope he gets his ass stomped 3-0.
Calm should take revenge and beat the hell out of Flash because of cheesing JD =[!
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Flash's interview just convinced me of 2 player maps being damn imba in TvZ...
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Thanks for the intreviews btw! So excited for movie's intreview :3!
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On December 25 2009 21:26 Geo.Rion wrote:Show nested quote +On December 25 2009 21:24 darktreb wrote:On December 25 2009 21:23 Geo.Rion wrote:On December 25 2009 21:19 lazz wrote:-Was the bunker rush an improvised strategy?
▲No, it was a strategy that required considerable timing and preparation. That's why I prepared it very careful. I knew that it would work, so I pushed out confidently and I think that it turned out very well.
-Would it have been dangerous for you if your opponent didn't go 12hatch?
▲Even if he didn't go 12hatch, it would have been a usable strategy. Despite the early marine production, I knew where to scout to capture the overlords thanks to my preparation. Even if he decided to choose a different strategy, I still would have had a chance to win. people calling 8 rax cheese need to read this and have a deep long think about what they're saying Hillarious. He says he would have had a chanse to win. You have decent chanse to win even if you fail with 6 pool. So it's not cheese, right? (Oystein had a guide written on it iirc) These rabid flashfans are so ridiculous, stating he did not cheese. Yeah Flash cheesed Jaedong. It was brilliant and he advanced. He also absolutely destroyed him straight up in game 1. I can't believe JD fans are still talking. Did you read that i said Flash does not deserve to advance? No. I say he cheesed, which is clear as the Sun, and i dont like ppl who say the white wall is black.
A white wall can be black if there is no light ^^
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On December 25 2009 21:31 SilverskY wrote:
Calm is talking mad cocky. I hope he gets his ass stomped 3-0.
Seriously. I can't agree more.
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Hungary11291 Posts
Thanks for translating these so quickly!
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On December 25 2009 21:23 Geo.Rion wrote:
You have decent chanse to win even if you fail with 6 pool.
No, you wouldn't.
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On December 25 2009 21:49 writer22816 wrote:Show nested quote +On December 25 2009 21:23 Geo.Rion wrote:
You have decent chanse to win even if you fail with 6 pool. No, you wouldn't.
5pool --> 6 lings --> drones is a very usable build
kinda like 8rax
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Man, Flash can't lose this OSL.
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51451 Posts
조지명식/jojimyungshik -> Group Selection/Ceremony
다전제 -> it's definitely a e-sports-related term... i think it means major match or something similar (so individual league semi-finals and proleague playoffs are 다전제 for example)
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On December 25 2009 21:56 SuperArc wrote:Show nested quote +On December 25 2009 21:49 writer22816 wrote:On December 25 2009 21:23 Geo.Rion wrote:
You have decent chanse to win even if you fail with 6 pool. No, you wouldn't. 5pool --> 6 lings --> drones is a very usable build kinda like 8rax
ugh noo, its much more risky than 8 rax.
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United States33388 Posts
On December 25 2009 22:05 GTR wrote:
조지명식/jojimyungshik -> Group Selection/Ceremony
다전제 -> it's definitely a e-sports-related term... i think it means major match or something similar (so individual league semi-finals and proleague playoffs are 다전제 for example)
다전제 just means bo3 or more
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On December 25 2009 22:19 Waxangel wrote:Show nested quote +On December 25 2009 22:05 GTR wrote:
조지명식/jojimyungshik -> Group Selection/Ceremony
다전제 -> it's definitely a e-sports-related term... i think it means major match or something similar (so individual league semi-finals and proleague playoffs are 다전제 for example) 다전제 just means bo3 or more
o thanks
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Tx for this. Be glad Livestream wasn't up so you didn't have to witness Shine kicking Stork out of the league. 
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Seriously, how can you still hate Shine? The dude is all manner.
On December 25 2009 21:31 SilverskY wrote:
Calm is talking mad cocky. I hope he gets his ass stomped 3-0.
Seriously, what was he supposed to say? I'm not confident I will win? I was secretly rooting for Jaedong? I don't care if I lose? -_-
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am i the only one excited for the semis? calm vs flash probably wont be as one sided as most of you think and movie's pvsz, which is somewhat different from stork and bisus, vs shines overly aggressive style of zvsp should be interesting
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Flash proxied a barracks and pulled 5 SCVs to bunker rush. To my mind, that's cheese.
I can't help but think that if Jaedong had won a game with 9 pool against Flash playing standard, you would say that was cheese. And 9 pool is not cheese at all- at the very least, far less cheese than what Flash went with.
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Protoss, Flash's natural enemy.
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Damn that was fast. Thanks for the interview after a rather chaotic night
Go Movie! Believe in yourself you can do it kid!
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Hong Kong20321 Posts
sdweeeet thanks!! :D:D:D:D
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On December 25 2009 23:22 Zozma wrote:
Flash proxied a barracks and pulled 5 SCVs to bunker rush. To my mind, that's cheese.
I can't help but think that if Jaedong had won a game with 9 pool against Flash playing standard, you would say that was cheese. And 9 pool is not cheese at all- at the very least, far less cheese than what Flash went with.
I'm pretty sure flash would have been ahead even if he didn't bunker rush, but he scouted the 12 hatch and realized that he could pull off a successful bunker rush, and did so.
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Shine actually seems like a really nice guy, i can't hate him even though I'm a huge Stork fan
oh well, there's always next season
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I gotta admit... Shine is pretty gosu >,<
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nooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo jaedonggggggggggggggggggggggggggggg
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On December 25 2009 21:30 mmgoose wrote:Show nested quote +On December 25 2009 21:28 darktreb wrote:On December 25 2009 21:26 Geo.Rion wrote:On December 25 2009 21:24 darktreb wrote:On December 25 2009 21:23 Geo.Rion wrote:On December 25 2009 21:19 lazz wrote:-Was the bunker rush an improvised strategy?
▲No, it was a strategy that required considerable timing and preparation. That's why I prepared it very careful. I knew that it would work, so I pushed out confidently and I think that it turned out very well.
-Would it have been dangerous for you if your opponent didn't go 12hatch?
▲Even if he didn't go 12hatch, it would have been a usable strategy. Despite the early marine production, I knew where to scout to capture the overlords thanks to my preparation. Even if he decided to choose a different strategy, I still would have had a chance to win. people calling 8 rax cheese need to read this and have a deep long think about what they're saying Hillarious. He says he would have had a chanse to win. You have decent chanse to win even if you fail with 6 pool. So it's not cheese, right? (Oystein had a guide written on it iirc) These rabid flashfans are so ridiculous, stating he did not cheese. Yeah Flash cheesed Jaedong. It was brilliant and he advanced. He also absolutely destroyed him straight up in game 1. I can't believe JD fans are still talking. Did you read that i said Flash does not deserve to advance? No. I say he cheesed, which is clear as the Sun, and i dont like ppl who say the white wall is black. He cheesed, he won, he's also currently the better player - are we done here? i think jaedong fans have a right to vent their frustration however ridiculous the delusional arguments may be,
dont really now what are you talking about, but whatever, i'm talking about cheese, find a better place for your anti-jd fanatism.
For some ppl apparently beside BBS in the middle of the map and pullin 3/4 of the scvs nothing is cheese in TvZ, i got nothing to say to them.
On December 25 2009 21:40 Scaramanga wrote:Show nested quote +On December 25 2009 21:26 Geo.Rion wrote:On December 25 2009 21:24 darktreb wrote:On December 25 2009 21:23 Geo.Rion wrote:On December 25 2009 21:19 lazz wrote:-Was the bunker rush an improvised strategy?
▲No, it was a strategy that required considerable timing and preparation. That's why I prepared it very careful. I knew that it would work, so I pushed out confidently and I think that it turned out very well.
-Would it have been dangerous for you if your opponent didn't go 12hatch?
▲Even if he didn't go 12hatch, it would have been a usable strategy. Despite the early marine production, I knew where to scout to capture the overlords thanks to my preparation. Even if he decided to choose a different strategy, I still would have had a chance to win. people calling 8 rax cheese need to read this and have a deep long think about what they're saying Hillarious. He says he would have had a chanse to win. You have decent chanse to win even if you fail with 6 pool. So it's not cheese, right? (Oystein had a guide written on it iirc) These rabid flashfans are so ridiculous, stating he did not cheese. Yeah Flash cheesed Jaedong. It was brilliant and he advanced. He also absolutely destroyed him straight up in game 1. I can't believe JD fans are still talking. Did you read that i said Flash does not deserve to advance? No. I say he cheesed, which is clear as the Sun, and i dont like ppl who say the white wall is black. A white wall can be black if there is no light ^^
had to be said i guess...
On December 25 2009 21:49 writer22816 wrote:Show nested quote +On December 25 2009 21:23 Geo.Rion wrote:
You have decent chanse to win even if you fail with 6 pool. No, you wouldn't.
I could only recommend Oystein's thread, apparently the search function is broken (is it just me?) but he explains the build, and even gives a rep where he deals the least ammonut of dmg with the 6pool and still trasitions into normal play nicely. It's cheese, just as proxy 7 or 8rax, or athor porxies.
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On December 25 2009 21:24 darktreb wrote:Show nested quote +On December 25 2009 21:23 Geo.Rion wrote:On December 25 2009 21:19 lazz wrote:-Was the bunker rush an improvised strategy?
▲No, it was a strategy that required considerable timing and preparation. That's why I prepared it very careful. I knew that it would work, so I pushed out confidently and I think that it turned out very well.
-Would it have been dangerous for you if your opponent didn't go 12hatch?
▲Even if he didn't go 12hatch, it would have been a usable strategy. Despite the early marine production, I knew where to scout to capture the overlords thanks to my preparation. Even if he decided to choose a different strategy, I still would have had a chance to win. people calling 8 rax cheese need to read this and have a deep long think about what they're saying Hillarious. He says he would have had a chanse to win. You have decent chanse to win even if you fail with 6 pool. So it's not cheese, right? (Oystein had a guide written on it iirc) These rabid flashfans are so ridiculous, stating he did not cheese. Yeah Flash cheesed Jaedong. It was brilliant and he advanced. He also absolutely destroyed him straight up in game 1. I can't believe JD fans are still talking.
IF Jaedong fans didnt bitch about how he mis microed 1 unit, got cheesed, played poorly, lokoed tired, is overworked, didnt really practice, did a stupid decision
they wouldnt be true jaedong fans.
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marcoso
Brazil818 Posts
It's awesome how almost all top players are Flash's "hyung".
And thanks GhostWriter, for the translations! =)
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Everyone suddenly talks about 8rax -> bunker rush being some kind of imba 100% win strategy
=______=
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On December 25 2009 21:25 Geo.Rion wrote:Show nested quote +On December 25 2009 21:23 lazz wrote:On December 25 2009 21:21 DragoonPK wrote:On December 25 2009 21:19 lazz wrote:-Was the bunker rush an improvised strategy?
▲No, it was a strategy that required considerable timing and preparation. That's why I prepared it very careful. I knew that it would work, so I pushed out confidently and I think that it turned out very well.
-Would it have been dangerous for you if your opponent didn't go 12hatch?
▲Even if he didn't go 12hatch, it would have been a usable strategy. Despite the early marine production, I knew where to scout to capture the overlords thanks to my preparation. Even if he decided to choose a different strategy, I still would have had a chance to win. people calling 8 rax cheese need to read this and have a deep long think about what they're saying Its cheese, but its perfected cheese. Thats why it worked. It's not cheese though, because it's not all-in. He knew it would work. it had a definite pay off. that's not cheese. ugh, there s been a long time since i saw some1 stating sg so obviously wrong with this dedication. I thhink it was taht finnish guy in PR like half a year ago. Just go to bed, kid.
Couple of hours ago I saw some Romanian guy stating Flash went 6 rax. Any idea who may that be?
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On December 26 2009 00:05 Geo.Rion wrote:Show nested quote +On December 25 2009 21:30 mmgoose wrote:On December 25 2009 21:28 darktreb wrote:On December 25 2009 21:26 Geo.Rion wrote:On December 25 2009 21:24 darktreb wrote:On December 25 2009 21:23 Geo.Rion wrote:On December 25 2009 21:19 lazz wrote:-Was the bunker rush an improvised strategy?
▲No, it was a strategy that required considerable timing and preparation. That's why I prepared it very careful. I knew that it would work, so I pushed out confidently and I think that it turned out very well.
-Would it have been dangerous for you if your opponent didn't go 12hatch?
▲Even if he didn't go 12hatch, it would have been a usable strategy. Despite the early marine production, I knew where to scout to capture the overlords thanks to my preparation. Even if he decided to choose a different strategy, I still would have had a chance to win. people calling 8 rax cheese need to read this and have a deep long think about what they're saying Hillarious. He says he would have had a chanse to win. You have decent chanse to win even if you fail with 6 pool. So it's not cheese, right? (Oystein had a guide written on it iirc) These rabid flashfans are so ridiculous, stating he did not cheese. Yeah Flash cheesed Jaedong. It was brilliant and he advanced. He also absolutely destroyed him straight up in game 1. I can't believe JD fans are still talking. Did you read that i said Flash does not deserve to advance? No. I say he cheesed, which is clear as the Sun, and i dont like ppl who say the white wall is black. He cheesed, he won, he's also currently the better player - are we done here? i think jaedong fans have a right to vent their frustration however ridiculous the delusional arguments may be, dont really now what are you talking about, but whatever, i'm talking about cheese, find a better place for your anti-jd fanatism. For some ppl apparently beside BBS in the middle of the map and pullin 3/4 of the scvs nothing is cheese in TvZ, i got nothing to say to them. Show nested quote +On December 25 2009 21:40 Scaramanga wrote:On December 25 2009 21:26 Geo.Rion wrote:On December 25 2009 21:24 darktreb wrote:On December 25 2009 21:23 Geo.Rion wrote:On December 25 2009 21:19 lazz wrote:-Was the bunker rush an improvised strategy?
▲No, it was a strategy that required considerable timing and preparation. That's why I prepared it very careful. I knew that it would work, so I pushed out confidently and I think that it turned out very well.
-Would it have been dangerous for you if your opponent didn't go 12hatch?
▲Even if he didn't go 12hatch, it would have been a usable strategy. Despite the early marine production, I knew where to scout to capture the overlords thanks to my preparation. Even if he decided to choose a different strategy, I still would have had a chance to win. people calling 8 rax cheese need to read this and have a deep long think about what they're saying Hillarious. He says he would have had a chanse to win. You have decent chanse to win even if you fail with 6 pool. So it's not cheese, right? (Oystein had a guide written on it iirc) These rabid flashfans are so ridiculous, stating he did not cheese. Yeah Flash cheesed Jaedong. It was brilliant and he advanced. He also absolutely destroyed him straight up in game 1. I can't believe JD fans are still talking. Did you read that i said Flash does not deserve to advance? No. I say he cheesed, which is clear as the Sun, and i dont like ppl who say the white wall is black. A white wall can be black if there is no light ^^ had to be said i guess... Show nested quote +On December 25 2009 21:49 writer22816 wrote:On December 25 2009 21:23 Geo.Rion wrote:
You have decent chanse to win even if you fail with 6 pool. No, you wouldn't. I could only recommend Oystein's thread, apparently the search function is broken (is it just me?) but he explains the build, and even gives a rep where he deals the least ammonut of dmg with the 6pool and still trasitions into normal play nicely. It's cheese, just as proxy 7 or 8rax, or athor porxies.
So you just want to discuss what is cheese and what is not, and none of this has anything to do with you just being a butthurt fanboy? Cool.
I can almost taste your tears from here.
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God damn it, I wanted Stork to win for a finals matchup with Flash. Every other possibility now is pretty underwhelming in comparison.
On a different note, how Flash won that game was a pretty good reminder how lame Terran can be in TvZ.
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Shine remember this interview because this will be your last OSL interview.
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Does anyone have netizen comments?
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But Cheese doesn't have to be all-in, all-in is different. 5pool is cheese, but its still not all-in. well sort of..
WTF?! Is this sarcasm? 5pool "not all-in"? The only thing you could do more all-in is 4pool. If it's sarcasm w/e.
8 rax=/=cheese, it's just an aggressive opening, same as going 9pool.
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On December 26 2009 00:44 InDaHouse wrote:
Shine remember this interview because this will be your last OSL interview.
LOL, i like your attitude
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Calm, you BETTER win against Flash by preparing some Early to Late mind games. And Movie, oh man kick the sh!t out of Shine, REMEMBER, build a DA to maelstrom the Mutalisk on El Nino! Calm vs Movie Finals in 3!
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Flash OSL champion looks pretty inevitable at this point, and with that a bad OSL Final. Goddamn, Shine is so good against protoss.
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On December 26 2009 00:23 11cc wrote:Show nested quote +On December 26 2009 00:05 Geo.Rion wrote:On December 25 2009 21:30 mmgoose wrote:On December 25 2009 21:28 darktreb wrote:On December 25 2009 21:26 Geo.Rion wrote:On December 25 2009 21:24 darktreb wrote:On December 25 2009 21:23 Geo.Rion wrote:On December 25 2009 21:19 lazz wrote:-Was the bunker rush an improvised strategy?
▲No, it was a strategy that required considerable timing and preparation. That's why I prepared it very careful. I knew that it would work, so I pushed out confidently and I think that it turned out very well.
-Would it have been dangerous for you if your opponent didn't go 12hatch?
▲Even if he didn't go 12hatch, it would have been a usable strategy. Despite the early marine production, I knew where to scout to capture the overlords thanks to my preparation. Even if he decided to choose a different strategy, I still would have had a chance to win. people calling 8 rax cheese need to read this and have a deep long think about what they're saying Hillarious. He says he would have had a chanse to win. You have decent chanse to win even if you fail with 6 pool. So it's not cheese, right? (Oystein had a guide written on it iirc) These rabid flashfans are so ridiculous, stating he did not cheese. Yeah Flash cheesed Jaedong. It was brilliant and he advanced. He also absolutely destroyed him straight up in game 1. I can't believe JD fans are still talking. Did you read that i said Flash does not deserve to advance? No. I say he cheesed, which is clear as the Sun, and i dont like ppl who say the white wall is black. He cheesed, he won, he's also currently the better player - are we done here? i think jaedong fans have a right to vent their frustration however ridiculous the delusional arguments may be, dont really now what are you talking about, but whatever, i'm talking about cheese, find a better place for your anti-jd fanatism. For some ppl apparently beside BBS in the middle of the map and pullin 3/4 of the scvs nothing is cheese in TvZ, i got nothing to say to them. On December 25 2009 21:40 Scaramanga wrote:On December 25 2009 21:26 Geo.Rion wrote:On December 25 2009 21:24 darktreb wrote:On December 25 2009 21:23 Geo.Rion wrote:On December 25 2009 21:19 lazz wrote:-Was the bunker rush an improvised strategy?
▲No, it was a strategy that required considerable timing and preparation. That's why I prepared it very careful. I knew that it would work, so I pushed out confidently and I think that it turned out very well.
-Would it have been dangerous for you if your opponent didn't go 12hatch?
▲Even if he didn't go 12hatch, it would have been a usable strategy. Despite the early marine production, I knew where to scout to capture the overlords thanks to my preparation. Even if he decided to choose a different strategy, I still would have had a chance to win. people calling 8 rax cheese need to read this and have a deep long think about what they're saying Hillarious. He says he would have had a chanse to win. You have decent chanse to win even if you fail with 6 pool. So it's not cheese, right? (Oystein had a guide written on it iirc) These rabid flashfans are so ridiculous, stating he did not cheese. Yeah Flash cheesed Jaedong. It was brilliant and he advanced. He also absolutely destroyed him straight up in game 1. I can't believe JD fans are still talking. Did you read that i said Flash does not deserve to advance? No. I say he cheesed, which is clear as the Sun, and i dont like ppl who say the white wall is black. A white wall can be black if there is no light ^^ had to be said i guess... On December 25 2009 21:49 writer22816 wrote:On December 25 2009 21:23 Geo.Rion wrote:
You have decent chanse to win even if you fail with 6 pool. No, you wouldn't. I could only recommend Oystein's thread, apparently the search function is broken (is it just me?) but he explains the build, and even gives a rep where he deals the least ammonut of dmg with the 6pool and still trasitions into normal play nicely. It's cheese, just as proxy 7 or 8rax, or athor porxies. So you just want to discuss what is cheese and what is not, and none of this has anything to do with you just being a butthurt fanboy? Cool. I can almost taste your tears from here.
pathetic answer, i guess you resgistered on TL to post it.
A guy says Flash did not cheese, what he obviously did, i try to explain to him, than come the JD haters and talk about how i cry. Sg is going wrong. My favorite player is JD, yes, but i kinda knew he'd loose this one, Flash's TvZ is on fire really, and even if i didnt know, i do not care about excuses, he lost, he lost, it did not piss me off. Retarded people do.
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Thanks for the translation Flash for OSL!!!
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You all people arguing about cheese are stupid.
THERE IS NO DEFINITION OF CHEESE!
For some people cheese is something like "imma do it and hope to get lucky" - 4/5/6 pool on 4 players map, 8 rax on 4 players map, 14 cc on 4 players map, etc. For other people cheese is an all-in, and for others cheese is everything that is not straight-up macro game (like 1 rax exp, 3h muta, etc. Even though there is also actually no definition of straight-up macro game lool)
Cheese is only your personal feelings about strategy. Cheese is nicer saying of "this is such a gay strat"
Also anyone trying to prove "player XXX is stupid cause he is cheesing" is wrong, cause it is cheese for you but can be "not cheese" for someone other. You just don't like his playstyle, that's it
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boxer pulling scvs to bunker rush is where the term cheese came from in the first place. without scvs it would not have been a cheese rush, as jaedong would have been able to block it.
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To be honest, the FvJ game was pretty underwhelming.
Was hoping to see more than just a bunker rush. But it was pretty much over after the overlord died.
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On December 26 2009 02:04 dasanivan wrote:
boxer pulling scvs to bunker rush is where the term cheese came from in the first place. without scvs it would not have been a cheese rush, as jaedong would have been able to block it.
Yea seriously, that's the original cheese. When did people get so picky? A proxy 8 rax with marine pulled to bunker rush is cheese. It's not all-in but cheese doesn't have to be. Cheese does differ from one game to another but this build is always cheese, just like 4/5 pool. No one ever 6/7/8 pools so that's irrelevant.
Congrats to Flash, I feel that Calm presents a unique challenge, but he should cruise because of his excellent decision making.
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On December 26 2009 02:06 Radiomouse wrote:
To be honest, the FvJ game was pretty underwhelming.
Was hoping to see more than just a bunker rush. But it was pretty much over after the overlord died.
Pretty much Jaedong had a huge schedule at game 1 (I can see the tireness in his eyes), Flash basically beat him straight up but Jaedong did make a mistake of counter-attacking with all his Mutalisk and lost nearly all of them, then Flash's Medics n Marines just steamrolled JD. Game 2, even if Jaedong defended against Flash's attack by going 9Pool, there is still game 3. Was the most hyped game of the year and yet it didn't deliver.
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Yeah, 8rax is much more akin to 9pool. Flash only pulled SCVs when he saw a 12 hatch.
If that's your definition of cheese, whatever, but it was an awesome strategy. I thought it was more fun than another stomping from Flash like in game 1—though that's pretty fun too.
Edit: Also, if you watched closely, JD only GGed after he saw Flash's base. He realized Flash didn't cut that much SCV production. That is hardly an all-in.
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On December 26 2009 02:14 SimonB wrote:Yeah, 8rax is much more akin to 9pool. Flash only pulled SCVs when he saw a 12 hatch. If that's your definition of cheese, whatever, but it was an awesome strategy. I thought it was more fun than another stomping from Flash like in game 1—though that's pretty fun too.
I am more mad about Jaedong's decision when he saw the Marines poped out so quickly, he still went 12 Hatch. If he went something like 12 Pool, he could've comfortably defended that. And even if he decided to stick to 12 Hatch, his Micro back then wasn't exactly the best. Plus the Sunken placement was pretty bad (at the Bunker's range). He pulled out WAY too many drones. I think Flash prepared the game so much and Jaedong was caught of guard.
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On December 26 2009 02:19 Xiphos wrote:Show nested quote +On December 26 2009 02:14 SimonB wrote:Yeah, 8rax is much more akin to 9pool. Flash only pulled SCVs when he saw a 12 hatch. If that's your definition of cheese, whatever, but it was an awesome strategy. I thought it was more fun than another stomping from Flash like in game 1—though that's pretty fun too. I am more mad about Jaedong's decision when he saw the Marines poped out so quickly, he still went 12 Hatch. If he went something like 12 Pool, he could've comfortably defended that. And even if he decided to stick to 12 Hatch, his Micro back then wasn't exactly the best. Plus the Sunken placement was pretty bad (at the Bunker's range). He pulled out WAY too many drones. I think Flash prepared the game so much and Jaedong was caught of guard.
He already placed the hatch dude.
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seeing jaedong lose is awesome, so awesome
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On December 26 2009 02:19 Xiphos wrote:Show nested quote +On December 26 2009 02:14 SimonB wrote:Yeah, 8rax is much more akin to 9pool. Flash only pulled SCVs when he saw a 12 hatch. If that's your definition of cheese, whatever, but it was an awesome strategy. I thought it was more fun than another stomping from Flash like in game 1—though that's pretty fun too. I am more mad about Jaedong's decision when he saw the Marines poped out so quickly, he still went 12 Hatch. If he went something like 12 Pool, he could've comfortably defended that. And even if he decided to stick to 12 Hatch, his Micro back then wasn't exactly the best. Plus the Sunken placement was pretty bad (at the Bunker's range). He pulled out WAY too many drones. I think Flash prepared the game so much and Jaedong was caught of guard.
LOL... if Terran could get 2 marines out with an 8rax before Z even put down a 12hatch, bunker rushes would be even gayer than they are now. By the time JD saw the marine his pool was probably almost down if not down already.
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On December 25 2009 21:32 DragoonPK wrote:
If Flash left JD to play standard, I am 100% confident that JD would win the next 2 games. Give someone like Jaedong a bit of momentum and he will turn the tables around in a flash(get it lol!).
Stuff like this is what makes it hard to take JD fans seriously. Cause you know, JD has looked completely unbeatable in standard ZvT lately and crushed Flash in standard play last week ... oh wait it's the other way around.
Thanks for the translations!
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On December 25 2009 21:24 darktreb wrote:Show nested quote +On December 25 2009 21:23 Geo.Rion wrote:On December 25 2009 21:19 lazz wrote:-Was the bunker rush an improvised strategy?
▲No, it was a strategy that required considerable timing and preparation. That's why I prepared it very careful. I knew that it would work, so I pushed out confidently and I think that it turned out very well.
-Would it have been dangerous for you if your opponent didn't go 12hatch?
▲Even if he didn't go 12hatch, it would have been a usable strategy. Despite the early marine production, I knew where to scout to capture the overlords thanks to my preparation. Even if he decided to choose a different strategy, I still would have had a chance to win. people calling 8 rax cheese need to read this and have a deep long think about what they're saying Hillarious. He says he would have had a chanse to win. You have decent chanse to win even if you fail with 6 pool. So it's not cheese, right? (Oystein had a guide written on it iirc) These rabid flashfans are so ridiculous, stating he did not cheese. Yeah Flash cheesed Jaedong. It was brilliant and he advanced. He also absolutely destroyed him straight up in game 1. I can't believe JD fans are still talking.
Ah I knew Flash would cheese Jaedong. I knew he wouldn't have the balls to play him in a straight up game he knew he would lose this time. Gotta cheese someone who's superior to you ^^.
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On December 26 2009 01:39 Geo.Rion wrote:Show nested quote +On December 26 2009 00:23 11cc wrote:On December 26 2009 00:05 Geo.Rion wrote:On December 25 2009 21:30 mmgoose wrote:On December 25 2009 21:28 darktreb wrote:On December 25 2009 21:26 Geo.Rion wrote:On December 25 2009 21:24 darktreb wrote:On December 25 2009 21:23 Geo.Rion wrote:On December 25 2009 21:19 lazz wrote:-Was the bunker rush an improvised strategy?
▲No, it was a strategy that required considerable timing and preparation. That's why I prepared it very careful. I knew that it would work, so I pushed out confidently and I think that it turned out very well.
-Would it have been dangerous for you if your opponent didn't go 12hatch?
▲Even if he didn't go 12hatch, it would have been a usable strategy. Despite the early marine production, I knew where to scout to capture the overlords thanks to my preparation. Even if he decided to choose a different strategy, I still would have had a chance to win. people calling 8 rax cheese need to read this and have a deep long think about what they're saying Hillarious. He says he would have had a chanse to win. You have decent chanse to win even if you fail with 6 pool. So it's not cheese, right? (Oystein had a guide written on it iirc) These rabid flashfans are so ridiculous, stating he did not cheese. Yeah Flash cheesed Jaedong. It was brilliant and he advanced. He also absolutely destroyed him straight up in game 1. I can't believe JD fans are still talking. Did you read that i said Flash does not deserve to advance? No. I say he cheesed, which is clear as the Sun, and i dont like ppl who say the white wall is black. He cheesed, he won, he's also currently the better player - are we done here? i think jaedong fans have a right to vent their frustration however ridiculous the delusional arguments may be, dont really now what are you talking about, but whatever, i'm talking about cheese, find a better place for your anti-jd fanatism. For some ppl apparently beside BBS in the middle of the map and pullin 3/4 of the scvs nothing is cheese in TvZ, i got nothing to say to them. On December 25 2009 21:40 Scaramanga wrote:On December 25 2009 21:26 Geo.Rion wrote:On December 25 2009 21:24 darktreb wrote:On December 25 2009 21:23 Geo.Rion wrote:On December 25 2009 21:19 lazz wrote:-Was the bunker rush an improvised strategy?
▲No, it was a strategy that required considerable timing and preparation. That's why I prepared it very careful. I knew that it would work, so I pushed out confidently and I think that it turned out very well.
-Would it have been dangerous for you if your opponent didn't go 12hatch?
▲Even if he didn't go 12hatch, it would have been a usable strategy. Despite the early marine production, I knew where to scout to capture the overlords thanks to my preparation. Even if he decided to choose a different strategy, I still would have had a chance to win. people calling 8 rax cheese need to read this and have a deep long think about what they're saying Hillarious. He says he would have had a chanse to win. You have decent chanse to win even if you fail with 6 pool. So it's not cheese, right? (Oystein had a guide written on it iirc) These rabid flashfans are so ridiculous, stating he did not cheese. Yeah Flash cheesed Jaedong. It was brilliant and he advanced. He also absolutely destroyed him straight up in game 1. I can't believe JD fans are still talking. Did you read that i said Flash does not deserve to advance? No. I say he cheesed, which is clear as the Sun, and i dont like ppl who say the white wall is black. A white wall can be black if there is no light ^^ had to be said i guess... On December 25 2009 21:49 writer22816 wrote:On December 25 2009 21:23 Geo.Rion wrote:
You have decent chanse to win even if you fail with 6 pool. No, you wouldn't. I could only recommend Oystein's thread, apparently the search function is broken (is it just me?) but he explains the build, and even gives a rep where he deals the least ammonut of dmg with the 6pool and still trasitions into normal play nicely. It's cheese, just as proxy 7 or 8rax, or athor porxies. So you just want to discuss what is cheese and what is not, and none of this has anything to do with you just being a butthurt fanboy? Cool. I can almost taste your tears from here. pathetic answer, i guess you resgistered on TL to post it. A guy says Flash did not cheese, what he obviously did, i try to explain to him, than come the JD haters and talk about how i cry. Sg is going wrong. My favorite player is JD, yes, but i kinda knew he'd loose this one, Flash's TvZ is on fire really, and even if i didnt know, i do not care about excuses, he lost, he lost, it did not piss me off. Retarded people do.
wow... chill -_-;;
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On December 25 2009 21:26 DragoonPK wrote:Show nested quote +On December 25 2009 21:23 lazz wrote:On December 25 2009 21:21 DragoonPK wrote:On December 25 2009 21:19 lazz wrote:-Was the bunker rush an improvised strategy?
▲No, it was a strategy that required considerable timing and preparation. That's why I prepared it very careful. I knew that it would work, so I pushed out confidently and I think that it turned out very well.
-Would it have been dangerous for you if your opponent didn't go 12hatch?
▲Even if he didn't go 12hatch, it would have been a usable strategy. Despite the early marine production, I knew where to scout to capture the overlords thanks to my preparation. Even if he decided to choose a different strategy, I still would have had a chance to win. people calling 8 rax cheese need to read this and have a deep long think about what they're saying Its cheese, but its perfected cheese. Thats why it worked. It's not cheese though, because it's not all-in. He knew it would work. it had a definite pay off. that's not cheese. But Cheese doesn't have to be all-in, all-in is different. 5pool is cheese, but its still not all-in. well sort of..
Cheese is when you take risks. It's called high risk / high reward. Since Flash would have been in a good position whatever build Jaedong opened with it is not a cheese.
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Even against all odds, I will root for Movie. I am anti-Shine fan for life.
Flash v.s. Shine OSL final would be almost worse than a ZvZ final. Almost.
BTW, my jaw dropped when Flash 8 rax bunker rushed Jaedong. WHO THE HELL DOES A CHEESE AGAINST YOUR STRONGEST RIVAL IN FRONT OF THE BIGGEST AUDIENCE ON CHRISTMAS?
Also, screw those guys who claim Flash's strategy isn't cheese. There is no dictionary definition for cheese. There is no wikipedia entry on starcraft "cheese". It is CHEESE when the player pulls off a cheesy move to end the game in an anti-climatic fashion.
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On December 26 2009 03:36 blade55555 wrote:Show nested quote +On December 25 2009 21:24 darktreb wrote:On December 25 2009 21:23 Geo.Rion wrote:On December 25 2009 21:19 lazz wrote:-Was the bunker rush an improvised strategy?
▲No, it was a strategy that required considerable timing and preparation. That's why I prepared it very careful. I knew that it would work, so I pushed out confidently and I think that it turned out very well.
-Would it have been dangerous for you if your opponent didn't go 12hatch?
▲Even if he didn't go 12hatch, it would have been a usable strategy. Despite the early marine production, I knew where to scout to capture the overlords thanks to my preparation. Even if he decided to choose a different strategy, I still would have had a chance to win. people calling 8 rax cheese need to read this and have a deep long think about what they're saying Hillarious. He says he would have had a chanse to win. You have decent chanse to win even if you fail with 6 pool. So it's not cheese, right? (Oystein had a guide written on it iirc) These rabid flashfans are so ridiculous, stating he did not cheese. Yeah Flash cheesed Jaedong. It was brilliant and he advanced. He also absolutely destroyed him straight up in game 1. I can't believe JD fans are still talking. Ah I knew Flash would cheese Jaedong. I knew he wouldn't have the balls to play him in a straight up game he knew he would lose this time. Gotta cheese someone who's superior to you ^^.
Yea you are so right....
Don't drown in your own tears now, that would be really sad.
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On December 26 2009 03:36 blade55555 wrote:
Ah I knew Flash would cheese Jaedong. I knew he wouldn't have the balls to play him in a straight up game he knew he would lose this time. Gotta cheese someone who's superior to you ^^.
On December 26 2009 02:57 darktreb wrote:
Stuff like this is what makes it hard to take JD fans seriously. Cause you know, JD has looked completely unbeatable in standard ZvT lately and crushed Flash in standard play last week ... oh wait it's the other way around.
Thanks for the translations!
this was literally one post above you, it made me laugh
looking forward to a (hopefully) flash vs shine final, they're both really well mannered, and pretty entertaining to watch
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Oh my god Flash/Calm Bo5.. O.o I wanna see that shit get dirty, and I wanna see it now! Dauwm that's hawt
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On December 26 2009 04:00 dukethegold wrote:
Even against all odds, I will root for Movie. I am anti-Shine fan for life.
Flash v.s. Shine OSL final would be almost worse than a ZvZ final. Almost.
BTW, my jaw dropped when Flash 8 rax bunker rushed Jaedong. WHO THE HELL DOES A CHEESE AGAINST YOUR STRONGEST RIVAL IN FRONT OF THE BIGGEST AUDIENCE ON CHRISTMAS?
Also, screw those guys who claim Flash's strategy isn't cheese. There is no dictionary definition for cheese. There is no wikipedia entry on starcraft "cheese". It is CHEESE when the player pulls off a cheesy move to end the game in an anti-climatic fashion.
What? Early game aggression is way more exciting than your ordinary expand, wait 10 min, start moving out.
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On December 26 2009 02:14 SimonB wrote:
Yeah, 8rax is much more akin to 9pool. Flash only pulled SCVs when he saw a 12 hatch.
If that's your definition of cheese, whatever, but it was an awesome strategy.
Is this like the first TvZ you have ever watched?
Seriously, we're calling a proxy rax into bunker rush an "awesome strategy" now?
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On December 26 2009 04:00 dukethegold wrote:
Even against all odds, I will root for Movie. I am anti-Shine fan for life.
Flash v.s. Shine OSL final would be almost worse than a ZvZ final. Almost.
BTW, my jaw dropped when Flash 8 rax bunker rushed Jaedong. WHO THE HELL DOES A CHEESE AGAINST YOUR STRONGEST RIVAL IN FRONT OF THE BIGGEST AUDIENCE ON CHRISTMAS?
Also, screw those guys who claim Flash's strategy isn't cheese. There is no dictionary definition for cheese. There is no wikipedia entry on starcraft "cheese". It is CHEESE when the player pulls off a cheesy move to end the game in an anti-climatic fashion.
Boxer says hi.
Also, playing predictably ultimately leads to defeat. By varying one's playstyle, one can ensure they can keep opponents off-balance.
Remember Flash is also playing for an OSL trophy along with prize money. Why the hell would he potentially give that all up on the basis of pleasing people who rave, "IHATECHEESEITHASTODIE!" He's playing for something too, not just trying to entertain the fans.
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On December 26 2009 04:22 FieryBalrog wrote:Show nested quote +On December 26 2009 02:14 SimonB wrote:
Yeah, 8rax is much more akin to 9pool. Flash only pulled SCVs when he saw a 12 hatch.
If that's your definition of cheese, whatever, but it was an awesome strategy. Is this like the first TvZ you have ever watched? Seriously, we're calling a proxy rax into bunker rush an "awesome strategy" now?
Maybe how Flash analyzed the map and found out the perfect barracks placement and timing of it (7 rax not 8 rax, BIG TIMING DIFFERENCE) to kill the first overlord. Jaedong didn't analyze the map and never found out about this and walked right into Flashs trap.
Maybe you should watch more TvZ?
No Jaedong crying fanboys answered this yet, no arguments left huh? It's funny how D- players think they know anything about Starcraft too (this thread is flooded by them, it's obvious)
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On December 26 2009 04:00 dukethegold wrote:
Even against all odds, I will root for Movie. I am anti-Shine fan for life.
Flash v.s. Shine OSL final would be almost worse than a ZvZ final. Almost.
BTW, my jaw dropped when Flash 8 rax bunker rushed Jaedong. WHO THE HELL DOES A CHEESE AGAINST YOUR STRONGEST RIVAL IN FRONT OF THE BIGGEST AUDIENCE ON CHRISTMAS?
Also, screw those guys who claim Flash's strategy isn't cheese. There is no dictionary definition for cheese. There is no wikipedia entry on starcraft "cheese". It is CHEESE when the player pulls off a cheesy move to end the game in an anti-climatic fashion.
Yeah, cus Flash gives a shit what you want for Christmas right?
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On December 26 2009 04:27 dcberkeley wrote:Show nested quote +On December 26 2009 04:00 dukethegold wrote:
Even against all odds, I will root for Movie. I am anti-Shine fan for life.
Flash v.s. Shine OSL final would be almost worse than a ZvZ final. Almost.
BTW, my jaw dropped when Flash 8 rax bunker rushed Jaedong. WHO THE HELL DOES A CHEESE AGAINST YOUR STRONGEST RIVAL IN FRONT OF THE BIGGEST AUDIENCE ON CHRISTMAS?
Also, screw those guys who claim Flash's strategy isn't cheese. There is no dictionary definition for cheese. There is no wikipedia entry on starcraft "cheese". It is CHEESE when the player pulls off a cheesy move to end the game in an anti-climatic fashion. Yeah, cus Flash gives a shit what you want for Christmas right?
No, but he should give a shit about the hundreds of thousands if not millions of Korean fans who tuned in on Christmas just for Flash v.s. Jaedong. Flash might as well give a shit about Jaedong practicing his ass off for a good game against him as well as a sign of respect. Flash was one game up over Jaedong. He was by no means in a desperate situation. Surely for the sake of showmanship, show the audience a better game!
On December 26 2009 04:21 Zoler wrote:Show nested quote +On December 26 2009 04:00 dukethegold wrote:
Even against all odds, I will root for Movie. I am anti-Shine fan for life.
Flash v.s. Shine OSL final would be almost worse than a ZvZ final. Almost.
BTW, my jaw dropped when Flash 8 rax bunker rushed Jaedong. WHO THE HELL DOES A CHEESE AGAINST YOUR STRONGEST RIVAL IN FRONT OF THE BIGGEST AUDIENCE ON CHRISTMAS?
Also, screw those guys who claim Flash's strategy isn't cheese. There is no dictionary definition for cheese. There is no wikipedia entry on starcraft "cheese". It is CHEESE when the player pulls off a cheesy move to end the game in an anti-climatic fashion. What? Early game aggression is way more exciting than your ordinary expand, wait 10 min, start moving out.
Early aggression is exciting, yes. But one that ends the game in an anti-climatic fashion, no.
The fate of the entire Protoss race and the succession of the Legend of Fall now rest on the shoulders of Movie...
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Lol, all this hate brings back memories of Fantasy cheesing JD in the Proleague finals.
Anyways, congratz to Flash. He might just win an OSL by winning nothing but TvZ games.
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On December 26 2009 04:32 dukethegold wrote:Show nested quote +On December 26 2009 04:27 dcberkeley wrote:On December 26 2009 04:00 dukethegold wrote:
Even against all odds, I will root for Movie. I am anti-Shine fan for life.
Flash v.s. Shine OSL final would be almost worse than a ZvZ final. Almost.
BTW, my jaw dropped when Flash 8 rax bunker rushed Jaedong. WHO THE HELL DOES A CHEESE AGAINST YOUR STRONGEST RIVAL IN FRONT OF THE BIGGEST AUDIENCE ON CHRISTMAS?
Also, screw those guys who claim Flash's strategy isn't cheese. There is no dictionary definition for cheese. There is no wikipedia entry on starcraft "cheese". It is CHEESE when the player pulls off a cheesy move to end the game in an anti-climatic fashion. Yeah, cus Flash gives a shit what you want for Christmas right? No, but he should give a shit about the hundreds of thousands if not millions of Korean fans who tuned in on Christmas just for Flash v.s. Jaedong. Flash might as well give a shit about Jaedong practicing his ass off for a good game against him as well as a sign of respect. Flash was one game up over Jaedong. He was by no means in a desperate situation. Surely for the sake of showmanship, show the audience a better game!
Why the hell does he care? He's playing for an OSL trophy and prize money.
If you're playing for (this isn't the actual prize pool but a comparison), $60,000 in a tournament and you're going up against your opponent, are you going to win by all means possible or are you going to sit there wondering, "Hmmm...would this strategy please the fans...or would this one?"
All the moaning about Flash not pleasing the fans sounds more like whining to me. Plus, there are Flash fans who would be happy with Flash's win and further advancement into the OSL.
Lol, all this hate brings back memories of Fantasy cheesing JD in the Proleague finals.
Anyways, congratz to Flash. He might just win an OSL by winning nothing but TvZ games.
Haha, I'm going to use the search function to see the response to Boxer v. Yellow (when Boxer bunker rushed 3 times). Imagine the hate that would have brought.
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On December 26 2009 04:32 dukethegold wrote:Show nested quote +On December 26 2009 04:27 dcberkeley wrote:On December 26 2009 04:00 dukethegold wrote:
Even against all odds, I will root for Movie. I am anti-Shine fan for life.
Flash v.s. Shine OSL final would be almost worse than a ZvZ final. Almost.
BTW, my jaw dropped when Flash 8 rax bunker rushed Jaedong. WHO THE HELL DOES A CHEESE AGAINST YOUR STRONGEST RIVAL IN FRONT OF THE BIGGEST AUDIENCE ON CHRISTMAS?
Also, screw those guys who claim Flash's strategy isn't cheese. There is no dictionary definition for cheese. There is no wikipedia entry on starcraft "cheese". It is CHEESE when the player pulls off a cheesy move to end the game in an anti-climatic fashion. Yeah, cus Flash gives a shit what you want for Christmas right? No, but he should give a shit about the hundreds of thousands if not millions of Korean fans who tuned in on Christmas just for Flash v.s. Jaedong. Flash might as well give a shit about Jaedong practicing his ass off for a good game against him as well as a sign of respect. Flash was one game up over Jaedong. He was by no means in a desperate situation. Surely for the sake of showmanship, show the audience a better game! Show nested quote +On December 26 2009 04:21 Zoler wrote:On December 26 2009 04:00 dukethegold wrote:
Even against all odds, I will root for Movie. I am anti-Shine fan for life.
Flash v.s. Shine OSL final would be almost worse than a ZvZ final. Almost.
BTW, my jaw dropped when Flash 8 rax bunker rushed Jaedong. WHO THE HELL DOES A CHEESE AGAINST YOUR STRONGEST RIVAL IN FRONT OF THE BIGGEST AUDIENCE ON CHRISTMAS?
Also, screw those guys who claim Flash's strategy isn't cheese. There is no dictionary definition for cheese. There is no wikipedia entry on starcraft "cheese". It is CHEESE when the player pulls off a cheesy move to end the game in an anti-climatic fashion. What? Early game aggression is way more exciting than your ordinary expand, wait 10 min, start moving out. Early aggression is exciting, yes. But one that ends the game in an anti-climatic fashion, no. The fate of the entire Protoss race and the succession of the Legend of Fall now rest on the shoulders of Movie...
If you're going to blame someone for the game ending quickly, blame Jaedong. He's the one who screwed up. Flash just came in with a good strategy and took advantage of his opponent's mistakes.
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Flash just gave Jaedong some tips on skating, I don't see what the big deal is here.
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I like how someone is actually arguing Flash should have chosen a different strat for "showmanship". Imagine if Flash lost to Jaedong by using some crazy firebat strat, and then said in interviews, "I could have beaten JD easily but winning wasn't my main goal, it was to entertain."
How shitty would that make JD and Flash fans feel? I love it when my player beats another who's playing 100% to win. If my guy won, but I knew the other dude wasn't playing seriously, that cheapens my guy's win. The more JD fans are disrespecting Flash here, the more they're actually spitting on JD.
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On December 26 2009 05:05 Slow Motion wrote:
I like how someone is actually arguing Flash should have chosen a different strat for "showmanship". Imagine if Flash lost to Jaedong by using some crazy firebat strat, and then said in interviews, "I could have beaten JD easily but winning wasn't my main goal, it was to entertain."
How shitty would that make JD and Flash fans feel? I love it when my player beats another who's playing 100% to win. If my guy won, but I knew the other dude wasn't playing seriously, that cheapens my guy's win. The more JD fans are disrespecting Flash here, the more they're actually spitting on JD.
Boxer's said his main goal is to entertain the fans, which is why he does crazy shit like nukes and valks
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On December 26 2009 05:10 Chen wrote:Show nested quote +On December 26 2009 05:05 Slow Motion wrote:
I like how someone is actually arguing Flash should have chosen a different strat for "showmanship". Imagine if Flash lost to Jaedong by using some crazy firebat strat, and then said in interviews, "I could have beaten JD easily but winning wasn't my main goal, it was to entertain."
How shitty would that make JD and Flash fans feel? I love it when my player beats another who's playing 100% to win. If my guy won, but I knew the other dude wasn't playing seriously, that cheapens my guy's win. The more JD fans are disrespecting Flash here, the more they're actually spitting on JD. Boxer's said his main goal is to entertain the fans, which is why he does crazy shit like nukes and valks
I doubt Boxer would do crazy shit like nukes and valks in an OSL Ro8 against the best player in the world.
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On December 26 2009 05:10 Chen wrote:Show nested quote +On December 26 2009 05:05 Slow Motion wrote:
I like how someone is actually arguing Flash should have chosen a different strat for "showmanship". Imagine if Flash lost to Jaedong by using some crazy firebat strat, and then said in interviews, "I could have beaten JD easily but winning wasn't my main goal, it was to entertain."
How shitty would that make JD and Flash fans feel? I love it when my player beats another who's playing 100% to win. If my guy won, but I knew the other dude wasn't playing seriously, that cheapens my guy's win. The more JD fans are disrespecting Flash here, the more they're actually spitting on JD. Boxer's said his main goal is to entertain the fans, which is why he does crazy shit like nukes and valks
...yeah, Boxer respects the fans too much to cheese in a highly anticipated series like Flash did. I wish Flash could be more like Boxer.
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Baa?21243 Posts
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I wonder if Jaedong had a counter to his build...
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On December 26 2009 05:12 Rostam wrote:Show nested quote +On December 26 2009 05:10 Chen wrote:On December 26 2009 05:05 Slow Motion wrote:
I like how someone is actually arguing Flash should have chosen a different strat for "showmanship". Imagine if Flash lost to Jaedong by using some crazy firebat strat, and then said in interviews, "I could have beaten JD easily but winning wasn't my main goal, it was to entertain."
How shitty would that make JD and Flash fans feel? I love it when my player beats another who's playing 100% to win. If my guy won, but I knew the other dude wasn't playing seriously, that cheapens my guy's win. The more JD fans are disrespecting Flash here, the more they're actually spitting on JD. Boxer's said his main goal is to entertain the fans, which is why he does crazy shit like nukes and valks ...yeah, Boxer respects the fans too much to cheese in a highly anticipated series like Flash did. I wish Flash could be more like Boxer.
.....Boxer v. Yellow says hi. In that highly-anticipated semifinal, Boxer infamously/famously bunker-rushed Yellow 3 times in a row to knock Yellow out.
Ironically enough, the same argument of "8 rax is imba" was made in that thread too.
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God... I hated Shine for beating Stork till I read all the posts bashing Shine for the dumbest possible reasons with the worst possible hate. Its funny how if Jaedong did the same plays, most people would be like "omg sexy!!", "fcking beast", BONJWA", "aggresive, love it"...
Now I think I have become a huge fan of Shine. The new legend killer, destroying archons with mutas, responsible for single handily crushing the hopes of all that is Khan and T1, the man who silenced 700 siren like screams of unwavering fans in one fell swoop while creating a typhoon of misguided hate, disrespect, and disgust online of now disgraced fanboys.
Modest, intelligent, and articulated by day, he is the prime role model for pro gamers. But once he is in the booth, he becomes the ultimate villain. Fans stream in online and into stadiums to see him get crushed, but the only thing at the end of the day that is crushed is their hopes and happiness.
I love it. You love to hate him and I love to watch ravenous fanboys turn into disgusting and unreasonable trolls. I would have trolled Shine with the passion of a 1000 suns if I didn't read all that stupid shit you guys wrote, so thanks I guess for showing me the dark side.
The fall of heroes, the rise of the great villain.
Shine for OSL.
gl
hf
gg
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On December 26 2009 04:32 dukethegold wrote:Show nested quote +On December 26 2009 04:27 dcberkeley wrote:On December 26 2009 04:00 dukethegold wrote:
Even against all odds, I will root for Movie. I am anti-Shine fan for life.
Flash v.s. Shine OSL final would be almost worse than a ZvZ final. Almost.
BTW, my jaw dropped when Flash 8 rax bunker rushed Jaedong. WHO THE HELL DOES A CHEESE AGAINST YOUR STRONGEST RIVAL IN FRONT OF THE BIGGEST AUDIENCE ON CHRISTMAS?
Also, screw those guys who claim Flash's strategy isn't cheese. There is no dictionary definition for cheese. There is no wikipedia entry on starcraft "cheese". It is CHEESE when the player pulls off a cheesy move to end the game in an anti-climatic fashion. Yeah, cus Flash gives a shit what you want for Christmas right? No, but he should give a shit about the hundreds of thousands if not millions of Korean fans who tuned in on Christmas just for Flash v.s. Jaedong. Flash might as well give a shit about Jaedong practicing his ass off for a good game against him as well as a sign of respect. Flash was one game up over Jaedong. He was by no means in a desperate situation. Surely for the sake of showmanship, show the audience a better game! Show nested quote +On December 26 2009 04:21 Zoler wrote:On December 26 2009 04:00 dukethegold wrote:
Even against all odds, I will root for Movie. I am anti-Shine fan for life.
Flash v.s. Shine OSL final would be almost worse than a ZvZ final. Almost.
BTW, my jaw dropped when Flash 8 rax bunker rushed Jaedong. WHO THE HELL DOES A CHEESE AGAINST YOUR STRONGEST RIVAL IN FRONT OF THE BIGGEST AUDIENCE ON CHRISTMAS?
Also, screw those guys who claim Flash's strategy isn't cheese. There is no dictionary definition for cheese. There is no wikipedia entry on starcraft "cheese". It is CHEESE when the player pulls off a cheesy move to end the game in an anti-climatic fashion. What? Early game aggression is way more exciting than your ordinary expand, wait 10 min, start moving out. Early aggression is exciting, yes. But one that ends the game in an anti-climatic fashion, no. The fate of the entire Protoss race and the succession of the Legend of Fall now rest on the shoulders of Movie...
Shit, stop crying like a little bitch. Flash won fair and square and at the end of the day, Flash is still in the OSL and JD is out. So get used to it you whiner.
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On December 26 2009 05:31 lone_hydra wrote:
God... I hated Shine for beating Stork till I read all the posts bashing Shine for the dumbest possible reasons with the worst possible hate. Its funny how if Jaedong did the same plays, most people would be like "omg sexy!!", "fcking beast", BONJWA", "aggresive, love it"...
Now I think I have become a huge fan of Shine. The new legend killer, destroying archons with mutas, responsible for single handily crushing the hopes of all that is Khan and T1, the man who silenced 700 siren like screams of unwavering fans in one fell swoop while creating a typhoon of misguided hate, disrespect, and disgust online of now disgraced fanboys.
Modest, intelligent, and articulated by day, he is the prime role model for pro gamers. But once he is in the booth, he becomes the ultimate villain. Fans stream in online and into stadiums to see him get crushed, but the only thing at the end of the day that is crushed is their hopes and happiness.
I love it. You love to hate him and I love to watch ravenous fanboys turn into disgusting and unreasonable trolls. I would have trolled Shine with the passion of a 1000 suns if I didn't read all that stupid shit you guys wrote, so thanks I guess for showing me the dark side.
The fall of heroes, the rise of the great villain.
Shine for OSL.
gl
hf
gg
You're taking his mutalisk control a little bit out of proportion here.
People hate the fool because he took out stork using mutalisks (just about the only thing he CAN do). It's fine, Shine really deserved that win but his ZvT is so untested it's laughable and assuming he wins against Movie and Flash beats Calm... how is that final going to look?
Horrible. It'll be a one sided rape of mass proportions. Shine's very strong mutalisks are going to fail hard against Flash who has been handling mutalisks with zero effort all but one time in the last 20 some odd games.
It's like being robbed of the only good possible final, that's the thing here. People get annoyed at that.
Though I hate Shine for other reason...mainly that he's a one trick pony.
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Shine isn't a one trick pony. He can steal games off better players with cheese, but again its beating better players. His ZvP is pretty damned good because he can throw in things that guys like Stork and Bisu aren't ready for.
On another note, I seriously think shine should be nicknamed the "terrorist" (fantasy's nickname). He has terrorized the star league brackets more than fantasy has.
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On December 26 2009 05:12 Rostam wrote:Show nested quote +On December 26 2009 05:10 Chen wrote:On December 26 2009 05:05 Slow Motion wrote:
I like how someone is actually arguing Flash should have chosen a different strat for "showmanship". Imagine if Flash lost to Jaedong by using some crazy firebat strat, and then said in interviews, "I could have beaten JD easily but winning wasn't my main goal, it was to entertain."
How shitty would that make JD and Flash fans feel? I love it when my player beats another who's playing 100% to win. If my guy won, but I knew the other dude wasn't playing seriously, that cheapens my guy's win. The more JD fans are disrespecting Flash here, the more they're actually spitting on JD. Boxer's said his main goal is to entertain the fans, which is why he does crazy shit like nukes and valks ...yeah, Boxer respects the fans too much to cheese in a highly anticipated series like Flash did. I wish Flash could be more like Boxer.
That's mainly because Flash is still young and hungry. The Boxer that bunker rushed Yellow 3x in a row is different from the Boxer that went nukes versus Killer. I think Flash will probably mellow the same way once he gets a few titles under his belt.
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I watched the finals drunk with some friends, so I couldn't keep up with the TL thread/livestream stuff, but now I'm home and oh man oh man, the tears! The TEARS!
DELICIOUS!
A few points:
- Flash almost definitely would have stomped JD in a long game, anyway.
- Flash doing 8rax was brilliant because he hasn't done a build like that in so long, and JD probably thought "Well, he can beat me with a safe economic build, why would he do that?"
- Zergs in the future will have to shit bricks wondering if Flash is going to bunker rush them; they might hesitate to go 12hatch so often. It's a move that will pay dividends in the future for Flash as well.
So you JD fans can cry all you want, but you know that you'd be going 'OMFG JAEDONG IS A FUCKING GENIUS' if he successfully 4pooled Flash. And 8rax isn't even close to 4pool level of cheesiness, either.
About Shine vs Stork, I'm really sad for Stork since he's my 2nd favorite player. The 2nd match was an awesome game by Stork. I'm upset he lost too, but there's no need to take it out on Shine. The kid probably works hard, and his grandma was there at the match, that was cute.
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Well, whatever. I realize that the spirit of competition is to win no matter what the cost and I applaud Flash for sending Jaedong out of the OSL in an anti-climatic fashion.
Now, I hope you guys are all rooting for Movie, because a Flash v.s. Shine final will be a one sided ROFLstomp. Shine recently lost against Hwasin 0-2 in the MSL. I doubt he is going anywhere when he fights against Flash.
And yes, I recognize that Shine has skill. He is a legit player, against Protoss and Zergs anyway.
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Well the P>T>Z>P chain seems to be at full effect in OSL (at least this round), but that's SC so can't be hating it so much.
Still, Stork =( this was your OSL to take. I guess carrying Khan on his shoulders is weighing on him.
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It could have been cheesy on other maps considering it was a 7 RAX not 8 rax. But on heartbreak you'll always get the overlord so its not really a cheese there.
If opponent 9pools and loses first overlord he's pretty much behind aswell.
And why is it that whenever a terran does an agressive build its considered cheese, but when zerg 9pools its not? Grrr
its not like you pull any scvs if there is a 9pool...
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Thanks for the translation. You guys do an awesome job.
The Chinese translations are often too terse.
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On December 26 2009 06:39 StylishVODs wrote:
It could have been cheesy on other maps considering it was a 7 RAX not 8 rax. But on heartbreak you'll always get the overlord so its not really a cheese there.
If opponent 9pools and loses first overlord he's pretty much behind aswell.
And why is it that whenever a terran does an agressive build its considered cheese, but when zerg 9pools its not? Grrr
its not like you pull any scvs if there is a 9pool...
Exactly!
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On December 26 2009 05:12 Ikonn wrote:Show nested quote +On December 26 2009 05:10 Chen wrote:On December 26 2009 05:05 Slow Motion wrote:
I like how someone is actually arguing Flash should have chosen a different strat for "showmanship". Imagine if Flash lost to Jaedong by using some crazy firebat strat, and then said in interviews, "I could have beaten JD easily but winning wasn't my main goal, it was to entertain."
How shitty would that make JD and Flash fans feel? I love it when my player beats another who's playing 100% to win. If my guy won, but I knew the other dude wasn't playing seriously, that cheapens my guy's win. The more JD fans are disrespecting Flash here, the more they're actually spitting on JD. Boxer's said his main goal is to entertain the fans, which is why he does crazy shit like nukes and valks I doubt Boxer would do crazy shit like nukes and valks in an OSL Ro8 against the best player in the world.
Actually after reading his state of the union on gaming and the loss of fans, i'm sure he would go out of his way to make it entertaining. Flash is fine doing w/e it takes to win, it just sucks that it was pretty much THE worst it could of ended up. The game was over 1min in when the ovie died and flash pulled 4 scvs off the line.
At least stork - shine series delieverd but the fan fav lost that one. The real entity at fault is the OSL for matching up flash and JD in the ro8 and not ro4 or better.
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On December 26 2009 06:21 Fangster wrote:
Shine isn't a one trick pony. He can steal games off better players with cheese, but again its beating better players. His ZvP is pretty damned good because he can throw in things that guys like Stork and Bisu aren't ready for.
On another note, I seriously think shine should be nicknamed the "terrorist" (fantasy's nickname). He has terrorized the star league brackets more than fantasy has.
His ZvP is good because of his Mutalisk control. Once that fails and the inherent advantage a zerg player has in early game versus protoss is gone Shine is like a chicken with his head cut off.
His ZvZ is decent again because of Mutalisk contorl.
In ZvT he won't be able to rely on Mutalisk control like he can with other matchups simply because a 2 Hatch Muta all-in rarely works against Flash and when it does it'll only work once in a blue moon. So what's he going to do? His army management is pretty bad as proven v Stork game 2 and such.
I just don't see him being anything better than "okay"
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Flash is genious. He knows exactly when to cheese of not.
1. vs Bisu in Daum
2. vs Stork in OSL finals (on Katrina)
3. now vs Jaedong.
His ability to play mindgames to tear apart his opponent is just amazing.
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Shine's play was absolutely genius, I love this current crop of aggressive zergs, they make very tense and exciting games without all the strategic subtleties that I miss anyways.
I'm really glad Flash cheesed Jaedong. Finally he gets revenge for that failed 14 cc vs 9pool game he lost to JD a while ago. I've always felt like JD was a terrible face for progaming, his personality is just way too soft for a champion. Glad to see a real player like Flash come and manhandle this pussy.
To all the Calm fans out there, sorry but he's gonna get his nuts stomped by Flash. There hasn't been TvZ this good(relative to the scene) since the days of oov's pre-July streak. Shine will crush Movie, and then Flash will crush Shine in the finals for an OSL trophy he so rightfully deserves.
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On December 26 2009 07:44 lisakki wrote:
Shine's play was absolutely genius, I love this current crop of aggressive zergs, they make very tense and exciting games without all the strategic subtleties that I miss anyways.
I'm really glad Flash cheesed Jaedong. Finally he gets revenge for that failed 14 cc vs 9pool game he lost to JD a while ago. I've always felt like JD was a terrible face for progaming, his personality is just way too soft for a champion. Glad to see a real player like Flash come and manhandle this pussy.
To all the Calm fans out there, sorry but he's gonna get his nuts stomped by Flash. There hasn't been TvZ this good(relative to the scene) since the days of oov's pre-July streak. Shine will crush Movie, and then Flash will crush Shine in the finals for an OSL trophy he so rightfully deserves.
Yea, jaedong sure is a pussy, two osl's in a year, what a bitch. Lets hate the players on a more personal level, because its intelligent.
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On December 26 2009 07:44 lisakki wrote:
Shine's play was absolutely genius, I love this current crop of aggressive zergs, they make very tense and exciting games without all the strategic subtleties that I miss anyways.
I'm really glad Flash cheesed Jaedong. Finally he gets revenge for that failed 14 cc vs 9pool game he lost to JD a while ago. I've always felt like JD was a terrible face for progaming, his personality is just way too soft for a champion. Glad to see a real player like Flash come and manhandle this pussy.
To all the Calm fans out there, sorry but he's gonna get his nuts stomped by Flash. There hasn't been TvZ this good(relative to the scene) since the days of oov's pre-July streak. Shine will crush Movie, and then Flash will crush Shine in the finals for an OSL trophy he so rightfully deserves.
what the fuck lol?
+ Show Spoiler +
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On December 26 2009 07:44 lisakki wrote:
Shine's play was absolutely genius, I love this current crop of aggressive zergs, they make very tense and exciting games without all the strategic subtleties that I miss anyways.
I'm really glad Flash cheesed Jaedong. Finally he gets revenge for that failed 14 cc vs 9pool game he lost to JD a while ago. I've always felt like JD was a terrible face for progaming, his personality is just way too soft for a champion. Glad to see a real player like Flash come and manhandle this pussy.
To all the Calm fans out there, sorry but he's gonna get his nuts stomped by Flash. There hasn't been TvZ this good(relative to the scene) since the days of oov's pre-July streak. Shine will crush Movie, and then Flash will crush Shine in the finals for an OSL trophy he so rightfully deserves.
What the fuck is this? What a hateful, arbitrary and subjective statement that is an affront to everything jaedong has done for starcraft and all the fans he has brought in. You are clearly a tool and should stop posting.
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On December 26 2009 02:04 dasanivan wrote:
boxer pulling scvs to bunker rush is where the term cheese came from in the first place. without scvs it would not have been a cheese rush, as jaedong would have been able to block it.
i thought its called cheese cause people like to whine about it
AKA a play on people like wine with cheese..
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I figured it was called that just cause cheese is cheesy.
I don't get the hate for Flash in that game really. Cheese can be fun. BBS or 4pool would have been a little lame but a proxy 7rax targeted at the scouting overlord is hardly a standard cheese build. The pulled scvs were just a reaction to JD's 12hatch.
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On December 26 2009 09:14 Avidkeystamper wrote:
It was an 8 rax.
It's quite clearly 7 rax on the vod, 6 scvs mining and he builds the barracks before starting his 8th scv.
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On December 26 2009 08:18 On_Slaught wrote:Show nested quote +On December 26 2009 07:44 lisakki wrote:
Shine's play was absolutely genius, I love this current crop of aggressive zergs, they make very tense and exciting games without all the strategic subtleties that I miss anyways.
I'm really glad Flash cheesed Jaedong. Finally he gets revenge for that failed 14 cc vs 9pool game he lost to JD a while ago. I've always felt like JD was a terrible face for progaming, his personality is just way too soft for a champion. Glad to see a real player like Flash come and manhandle this pussy.
To all the Calm fans out there, sorry but he's gonna get his nuts stomped by Flash. There hasn't been TvZ this good(relative to the scene) since the days of oov's pre-July streak. Shine will crush Movie, and then Flash will crush Shine in the finals for an OSL trophy he so rightfully deserves. What the fuck is this? What a hateful, arbitrary and subjective statement that is an affront to everything jaedong has done for starcraft and all the fans he has brought in. You are clearly a tool and should stop posting.
jaedong fans keep saying such things about fantasy ..
finally a terran who can play his "easy" matchup!
the dark age with shitty zvz is hopefully gone :D
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On December 26 2009 08:21 arb wrote:Show nested quote +On December 26 2009 02:04 dasanivan wrote:
boxer pulling scvs to bunker rush is where the term cheese came from in the first place. without scvs it would not have been a cheese rush, as jaedong would have been able to block it. i thought its called cheese cause people like to whine about it AKA a play on people like wine with cheese..
I hope what you said is true, because that's the cutest explanation ever.
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On December 26 2009 04:00 dukethegold wrote:
Even against all odds, I will root for Movie. I am anti-Shine fan for life.
Flash v.s. Shine OSL final would be almost worse than a ZvZ final. Almost.
BTW, my jaw dropped when Flash 8 rax bunker rushed Jaedong. WHO THE HELL DOES A CHEESE AGAINST YOUR STRONGEST RIVAL IN FRONT OF THE BIGGEST AUDIENCE ON CHRISTMAS?
Also, screw those guys who claim Flash's strategy isn't cheese. There is no dictionary definition for cheese. There is no wikipedia entry on starcraft "cheese". It is CHEESE when the player pulls off a cheesy move to end the game in an anti-climatic fashion.
So 2 hatch muta is also cheese? It ends game often quickly in an anti-climatic fashion. Lets just adopt completely arbitrary standards and call cheese anything that leads to our favourite player losing.
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On December 26 2009 08:18 On_Slaught wrote:
What the fuck is this? What a hateful, arbitrary and subjective statement that is an affront to everything jaedong has done for starcraft and all the fans he has brought in. You are clearly a tool and should stop posting.
switch the word "jaedong" with "Flash" and you have a rebuttal to all the jaedong fanboys crying about a little cheese
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On December 26 2009 08:38 Viscount wrote:
I figured it was called that just cause cheese is cheesy.
I don't get the hate for Flash in that game really. Cheese can be fun. BBS or 4pool would have been a little lame but a proxy 7rax targeted at the scouting overlord is hardly a standard cheese build. The pulled scvs were just a reaction to JD's 12hatch.
Good post, word
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On December 26 2009 10:24 Lebesgue wrote:Show nested quote +On December 26 2009 04:00 dukethegold wrote:
Even against all odds, I will root for Movie. I am anti-Shine fan for life.
Flash v.s. Shine OSL final would be almost worse than a ZvZ final. Almost.
BTW, my jaw dropped when Flash 8 rax bunker rushed Jaedong. WHO THE HELL DOES A CHEESE AGAINST YOUR STRONGEST RIVAL IN FRONT OF THE BIGGEST AUDIENCE ON CHRISTMAS?
Also, screw those guys who claim Flash's strategy isn't cheese. There is no dictionary definition for cheese. There is no wikipedia entry on starcraft "cheese". It is CHEESE when the player pulls off a cheesy move to end the game in an anti-climatic fashion. So 2 hatch muta is also cheese? It ends game often quickly in an anti-climatic fashion. Lets just adopt completely arbitrary standards and call cheese anything that leads to our favourite player losing.
2 hat muta with a bunch of lings is certainly cheese, and 2 hat muta without many lings can transition into a long game just fine
and what flash did is obviously cheese, 7 rax and pulling 4 scvs? it doesnt really matter if it was a good decision or planned out or what, he was going for a quick kill and if it had failed he would have lost. that kind of build IS what cheese is. the fact that it was really likely to work just means its a good cheese.
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I hate the phrase "cheese." If you have the balls to take a risk that might pay off, go for it. It makes things more exciting. Flash has already proven he can out-turtle and out-macro everyone, I don't mind seeing him add well-planned 'strategic play' into his repertoire.
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Flash will win OSL. You heard it here first.
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On December 26 2009 12:02 slimshady wrote:
Flash will win OSL. You heard it here first.
Actually i hear it everywhere because its obviously going to happen. Flash may lose in a bo3 but i don't see him losing a bo5.
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On December 26 2009 06:28 Hinanawi wrote:
I watched the finals drunk with some friends, so I couldn't keep up with the TL thread/livestream stuff, but now I'm home and oh man oh man, the tears! The TEARS!
DELICIOUS!
A few points:
- Flash almost definitely would have stomped JD in a long game, anyway.
- Flash doing 8rax was brilliant because he hasn't done a build like that in so long, and JD probably thought "Well, he can beat me with a safe economic build, why would he do that?"
- Zergs in the future will have to shit bricks wondering if Flash is going to bunker rush them; they might hesitate to go 12hatch so often. It's a move that will pay dividends in the future for Flash as well.
So you JD fans can cry all you want, but you know that you'd be going 'OMFG JAEDONG IS A FUCKING GENIUS' if he successfully 4pooled Flash. And 8rax isn't even close to 4pool level of cheesiness, either.
About Shine vs Stork, I'm really sad for Stork since he's my 2nd favorite player. The 2nd match was an awesome game by Stork. I'm upset he lost too, but there's no need to take it out on Shine. The kid probably works hard, and his grandma was there at the match, that was cute.
JD didn't look nearly as tired this game as he did his first. Flash probably cheesed because he was up 1, and didn't want to face a fresh JD if he didn't have to. It was HBR, which is for some reason a map that JD struggles on so Flash was likely to win anyways, but I don't see why he had to cheese.
Secondly, it was a 7 rax not 8 rax. Then, it was a 7 rax PROXY, into a BUNKER RUSH, with 3 ADDITIONAL PULLED sev's. That is far more cheesy then a 4 pool.
Cheese is never fun to watch. Ever. I don't like it when anybody does cheese. People who are happy now just want their favorite player // race to win rather then to see a good game.
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On December 26 2009 07:50 PanN wrote:Show nested quote +On December 26 2009 07:44 lisakki wrote:
Shine's play was absolutely genius, I love this current crop of aggressive zergs, they make very tense and exciting games without all the strategic subtleties that I miss anyways.
I'm really glad Flash cheesed Jaedong. Finally he gets revenge for that failed 14 cc vs 9pool game he lost to JD a while ago. I've always felt like JD was a terrible face for progaming, his personality is just way too soft for a champion. Glad to see a real player like Flash come and manhandle this pussy.
To all the Calm fans out there, sorry but he's gonna get his nuts stomped by Flash. There hasn't been TvZ this good(relative to the scene) since the days of oov's pre-July streak. Shine will crush Movie, and then Flash will crush Shine in the finals for an OSL trophy he so rightfully deserves. Yea, jaedong sure is a pussy, two osl's in a year, what a bitch. Lets hate the players on a more personal level, because its intelligent.
What do you mean by "personal level"? You mean hating them for their personality? If I can't hate a player for his personality, what am I supposed to hate him by? His stats? Win/Loss ratio? Number of golds?
My favorite player of all time, Reach, has only won 1 OSL. But I don't like Reach because he won the OSL, I like Reach because I like his style and personality. Is this "not intelligent" to you too, because I like him for a completely subjective and biased reason?
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On December 26 2009 16:47 dogabutila wrote:
Secondly, it was a 7 rax not 8 rax. Then, it was a 7 rax PROXY, into a BUNKER RUSH, with 3 ADDITIONAL PULLED sev's. That is far more cheesy then a 4 pool.
Wrong. NOTHING is more cheesy than a 4 pool. Nothing.
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4 pools can die to sev's.
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Korea (South)3086 Posts
On December 26 2009 18:05 dogabutila wrote:
4 pools can die to sev's.
Yeah. If the person has the micro capabilities of a computer...
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It's not hard to kill lings with sev's. You can stack them, they do the same amount of damage, and have higher HP. Without speed lings are barely faster, and the onus is on them to come deal damage to you anyways.
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