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[Interview] Ever OSL 2009, RO8 Day 1 - Page 5

Forum Index > BW General
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darktreb
Profile Joined May 2007
United States3016 Posts
December 19 2009 06:54 GMT
#81
On December 19 2009 12:52 Xxio wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 19 2009 12:33 StorkHwaiting wrote:
On December 19 2009 09:42 Xxio wrote:
On December 19 2009 09:30 TwoToneTerran wrote:
Not really. This is the most hyped matchup of the season, more or less, and that was probably only a couple hundred people who showed up? That's not enough to really sustain a broadcastable, expensive sport for big name companies.


"This is the biggest crowd I’ve seen at a Starleague."

If anything that shows that StarCraft has grown in the past few years. Also, I think they make their money through advertising not through people buying tickets, if they even do, but I could very well be wrong,


Notice the people saying it's the biggest crowd they've seen are noobies. I highly doubt Stork or Flash are saying "wow this tha biggest crowd I've seen!"

Not saying Shine and Movie are low skill, they're just new to being deep in starleagues. That's all.


Notice how it was Flash who said that.


Flash probably meant for one of HIS group stage matches - so that kind of wouldn't include all the stuff from 3+ years ago.
Xxio
Profile Blog Joined July 2009
Canada5565 Posts
December 19 2009 07:45 GMT
#82
On December 19 2009 15:54 darktreb wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 19 2009 12:52 Xxio wrote:
On December 19 2009 12:33 StorkHwaiting wrote:
On December 19 2009 09:42 Xxio wrote:
On December 19 2009 09:30 TwoToneTerran wrote:
Not really. This is the most hyped matchup of the season, more or less, and that was probably only a couple hundred people who showed up? That's not enough to really sustain a broadcastable, expensive sport for big name companies.


"This is the biggest crowd I’ve seen at a Starleague."

If anything that shows that StarCraft has grown in the past few years. Also, I think they make their money through advertising not through people buying tickets, if they even do, but I could very well be wrong,


Notice the people saying it's the biggest crowd they've seen are noobies. I highly doubt Stork or Flash are saying "wow this tha biggest crowd I've seen!"

Not saying Shine and Movie are low skill, they're just new to being deep in starleagues. That's all.


Notice how it was Flash who said that.


Flash probably meant for one of HIS group stage matches - so that kind of wouldn't include all the stuff from 3+ years ago.


why don't you ask him and get back to me, until then we can assume he meant what he said
KTY
Emlary
Profile Blog Joined December 2002
China3334 Posts
December 19 2009 15:16 GMT
#83
On December 18 2009 19:41 Waxangel wrote:
Q: You have a match vs Bisu tomorrow.
A: I think he’s the best PvZ player. I think I was lucky when we last met, so I’m preparing hard for this meeting. I think it’s going to be a difficult duel, but Zerg vs Protoss is so favorable for zerg these days that I think I can win.


Though your name is Shine, it doesn't mean you're really shining. You're nowhere near Protoss-destroyer.
No more SKT1, it's SKP2.
ghostWriter
Profile Blog Joined January 2009
United States3302 Posts
December 19 2009 16:50 GMT
#84
On December 20 2009 00:16 Emlary wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 18 2009 19:41 Waxangel wrote:
Q: You have a match vs Bisu tomorrow.
A: I think he’s the best PvZ player. I think I was lucky when we last met, so I’m preparing hard for this meeting. I think it’s going to be a difficult duel, but Zerg vs Protoss is so favorable for zerg these days that I think I can win.


Though your name is Shine, it doesn't mean you're really shining. You're nowhere near Protoss-destroyer.


Stork seems to think otherwise.


Also, calling flash the winner seems like a bit of an understatement.
Sullifam
dukethegold
Profile Blog Joined August 2009
Canada5645 Posts
December 19 2009 17:05 GMT
#85
Flash did not just win, he raped the Dong. He made the Dong look like a no name Zerg.

If Shine somehow knocks Stork out of the tournament, I severely doubt anyone remaining in the two Starleagues is even remotely capable of challenging Flash in a BOX series.
Waxangel
Profile Blog Joined September 2002
United States33345 Posts
December 19 2009 17:24 GMT
#86
if Zero gets his shit together, I expect him to be able to take a game at least vs Flash, tho not win the series.
AdministratorHey HP can you redo everything youve ever done because i have a small complaint?
Tien
Profile Joined January 2003
Russian Federation4447 Posts
December 19 2009 17:26 GMT
#87
Jaedong is going to get rolled by Flash.

Flash TvZ is too strong lately.
We decide our own destiny
TwoToneTerran
Profile Joined March 2009
United States8841 Posts
December 19 2009 17:37 GMT
#88
Fun fact, if Flash wins 7 more games in a row (Resulting in an 11 win streak, which is actually reasonable for Flash), he'll break a 70% lifetime winrate. I think that'd make him the first player with over 300 games to have a 70% overall winrate.
Remember Violet.
Lebesgue
Profile Joined October 2008
4542 Posts
December 19 2009 17:38 GMT
#89
On December 20 2009 02:24 Waxangel wrote:
if Zero gets his shit together, I expect him to be able to take a game at least vs Flash, tho not win the series.


Next game is on the Match Point, not really the most friendly map for Zerg. But who knows what will happen. That's exactly the map on which Flash streak was broken...
duckett
Profile Blog Joined June 2009
United States589 Posts
December 19 2009 18:01 GMT
#90
go flash! loved the interview. esp the nod to zero
funky squaredance funky squaredance funky squaredance
RisingBlade
Profile Joined November 2008
39 Posts
December 19 2009 19:07 GMT
#91
"I think it’s going to be a difficult duel, but Zerg vs Protoss is so favorable for zerg these days that I think I can win."
darktreb
Profile Joined May 2007
United States3016 Posts
December 19 2009 19:15 GMT
#92
On December 19 2009 16:45 Xxio wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 19 2009 15:54 darktreb wrote:
On December 19 2009 12:52 Xxio wrote:
On December 19 2009 12:33 StorkHwaiting wrote:
On December 19 2009 09:42 Xxio wrote:
On December 19 2009 09:30 TwoToneTerran wrote:
Not really. This is the most hyped matchup of the season, more or less, and that was probably only a couple hundred people who showed up? That's not enough to really sustain a broadcastable, expensive sport for big name companies.


"This is the biggest crowd I’ve seen at a Starleague."

If anything that shows that StarCraft has grown in the past few years. Also, I think they make their money through advertising not through people buying tickets, if they even do, but I could very well be wrong,


Notice the people saying it's the biggest crowd they've seen are noobies. I highly doubt Stork or Flash are saying "wow this tha biggest crowd I've seen!"

Not saying Shine and Movie are low skill, they're just new to being deep in starleagues. That's all.


Notice how it was Flash who said that.


Flash probably meant for one of HIS group stage matches - so that kind of wouldn't include all the stuff from 3+ years ago.


why don't you ask him and get back to me, until then we can assume he meant what he said


Are you serious? This was a translation first of all. It obviously wasn't the biggest Starleague crowd he'd ever seen because every finals crowd is like 10x bigger. So clearly there were some implications built in to his statement. I can't believe you're taking a translation and saying "let's just take it word for word and turn off our brains".
ghostWriter
Profile Blog Joined January 2009
United States3302 Posts
December 19 2009 22:12 GMT
#93
On December 20 2009 04:15 darktreb wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 19 2009 16:45 Xxio wrote:
On December 19 2009 15:54 darktreb wrote:
On December 19 2009 12:52 Xxio wrote:
On December 19 2009 12:33 StorkHwaiting wrote:
On December 19 2009 09:42 Xxio wrote:
On December 19 2009 09:30 TwoToneTerran wrote:
Not really. This is the most hyped matchup of the season, more or less, and that was probably only a couple hundred people who showed up? That's not enough to really sustain a broadcastable, expensive sport for big name companies.


"This is the biggest crowd I’ve seen at a Starleague."

If anything that shows that StarCraft has grown in the past few years. Also, I think they make their money through advertising not through people buying tickets, if they even do, but I could very well be wrong,


Notice the people saying it's the biggest crowd they've seen are noobies. I highly doubt Stork or Flash are saying "wow this tha biggest crowd I've seen!"

Not saying Shine and Movie are low skill, they're just new to being deep in starleagues. That's all.


Notice how it was Flash who said that.


Flash probably meant for one of HIS group stage matches - so that kind of wouldn't include all the stuff from 3+ years ago.


why don't you ask him and get back to me, until then we can assume he meant what he said


Are you serious? This was a translation first of all. It obviously wasn't the biggest Starleague crowd he'd ever seen because every finals crowd is like 10x bigger. So clearly there were some implications built in to his statement. I can't believe you're taking a translation and saying "let's just take it word for word and turn off our brains".


The translation is right, but flash probably meant for group stages. obviously more people will show up to a finals than they would to a ro8 week 1 series.
Sullifam
lone_hydra
Profile Blog Joined July 2009
Canada1460 Posts
Last Edited: 2009-12-19 22:23:43
December 19 2009 22:20 GMT
#94
There are 3 people who are in both tournaments. And they are all fighting each other or at least not to get knocked out by Flash

On December 20 2009 02:05 dukethegold wrote:
Flash did not just win, he raped the Dong. He made the Dong look like a no name Zerg.

If Shine somehow knocks Stork out of the tournament, I severely doubt anyone remaining in the two Starleagues is even remotely capable of challenging Flash in a BOX series.


Flash's TvZ is very very good. But as shown by the Zero and Hyun game, its not invincible and it gets less invincible as the days grow since he uses the same strat. Every zerg remaining has the capabilities to watch his replays and prepare themselves enough to put up a damn good challenge to Flash's TvZ.
Fav Gamers: 2)Stork 5)Bisu
dukethegold
Profile Blog Joined August 2009
Canada5645 Posts
Last Edited: 2009-12-19 22:48:08
December 19 2009 22:42 GMT
#95
On December 20 2009 07:20 lone_hydra wrote:

Show nested quote +
On December 20 2009 02:05 dukethegold wrote:
Flash did not just win, he raped the Dong. He made the Dong look like a no name Zerg.

If Shine somehow knocks Stork out of the tournament, I severely doubt anyone remaining in the two Starleagues is even remotely capable of challenging Flash in a BOX series.


Flash's TvZ is very very good. But as shown by the Zero and Hyun game, its not invincible and it gets less invincible as the days grow since he uses the same strat. Every zerg remaining has the capabilities to watch his replays and prepare themselves enough to put up a damn good challenge to Flash's TvZ.


Nope. Flash lost his game against Hyun because he made a very silly mistake at the beginning. He did not make a turret next to his mineral line. (Flash and Turret, a never ending tragic tale of epic proportion) Due to that, he lost like, what, 15 scv to muta. If he placed just that one more turret, he would have won. I am sure he won't make the same mistake ever again.

But what's fricking amazing about Flash v.s. Hyun is that despite Hyun gain such an overwhelming upperhand at the beginning of the match, and had double the economy and double of the army over Flash, Flash stayed alive in the game until he was completely mined out. His TvZ is unreal. It is safely to start calling FvZ now.

Face it, no Zerg in existence is capable of taking a BOX series from Flash. Dong was the only Zerg left with a chance and he got raped hard. It was just one game, yes, but it wasn't even close.

Also, what strategy are you talking about? Flash won his game against Jaedong by denying Jaedong's third gas. If that is the strategy that you are talking about, show me couple more games from recent times when he won using the exact same strategy. I don't think out-micro, out-macro, out-play, and out-starsense count as strategy. This is like Iloveoov domination. It's just pure skill, there is no gimmicks, there is nothing you can do about it.
Zoler
Profile Blog Joined June 2008
Sweden6339 Posts
December 19 2009 22:45 GMT
#96
On December 20 2009 07:20 lone_hydra wrote:
There are 3 people who are in both tournaments. And they are all fighting each other or at least not to get knocked out by Flash

Show nested quote +
On December 20 2009 02:05 dukethegold wrote:
Flash did not just win, he raped the Dong. He made the Dong look like a no name Zerg.

If Shine somehow knocks Stork out of the tournament, I severely doubt anyone remaining in the two Starleagues is even remotely capable of challenging Flash in a BOX series.


Flash's TvZ is very very good. But as shown by the Zero and Hyun game, its not invincible and it gets less invincible as the days grow since he uses the same strat. Every zerg remaining has the capabilities to watch his replays and prepare themselves enough to put up a damn good challenge to Flash's TvZ.


You mean the VODs?
Lim Yo Hwan forever!
On_Slaught
Profile Joined August 2008
United States12190 Posts
December 19 2009 22:46 GMT
#97
Embaressing JD was the worst thing flash could of done. He should of stopped macroing for a little while to make it seem closer.

Uh oh!
lone_hydra
Profile Blog Joined July 2009
Canada1460 Posts
Last Edited: 2009-12-19 23:00:19
December 19 2009 22:59 GMT
#98
On December 20 2009 07:42 dukethegold wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 20 2009 07:20 lone_hydra wrote:

On December 20 2009 02:05 dukethegold wrote:
Flash did not just win, he raped the Dong. He made the Dong look like a no name Zerg.

If Shine somehow knocks Stork out of the tournament, I severely doubt anyone remaining in the two Starleagues is even remotely capable of challenging Flash in a BOX series.


Flash's TvZ is very very good. But as shown by the Zero and Hyun game, its not invincible and it gets less invincible as the days grow since he uses the same strat. Every zerg remaining has the capabilities to watch his replays and prepare themselves enough to put up a damn good challenge to Flash's TvZ.


Nope. Flash lost his game against Hyun because he made a very silly mistake at the beginning. He did not make a turret next to his mineral line. Due to that, he lost like, what, 15 scv to muta. If he placed just that one more turret, he would have won. I am sure he won't make the same mistake ever again.

But what's fricking amazing about Flash v.s. Hyun is that despite Hyun gain such an overwhelming upperhand at the beginning of the match, and had double the economy and double of the army over Flash, Flash stayed alive in the game until he was completely mined out. His TvZ is unreal. It is safely to start calling FvZ now.

Face it, no Zerg in existence is capable of taking a BOX series from Flash. Dong was the only Zerg left with a chance and he got raped hard. It was just one game, yes, but it wasn't even close.

Also, what strategy are you talking about? Flash won his game against Jaedong by denying Jaedong's third gas. If that is the strategy that you are talking about, show me couple more games from recent times when he won using the exact same strategy. I don't think out-micro, out-macro, out-play, and out-starsense count as strategy. This is like Iloveoov domination. It's just pure skill, there is no gimmicks, there is nothing you can do about it.


Wow,super fanboy alert. He goes this build every time zerg 12 hatchs. barracks, cc, bunker at natural, then medics marines. Alot of turrets in natural, turrets surrounding outskirts of main with medic and marine protecting if he scans mutas. Then he goes for the infamous terran ball push while doing a good job of denying third. he sits on 2 bases for quite a while until he is sure he has map control and expands.

Flash did not make a mistake in not building turrets in main min line vs Hyun. He almost never does, because he feels he could intimidate the opponent from going into his main with turrets outside and marines inside. No zergs would want to see all those turrets on the outskirts and marines of the main then go in towards the main min line to find more turrets and get trapped between turrets and marine fire. Hyun watched Flash's replays and realized thats what Flash wanted him to think and called Flash's bluff. It was not that impressive to see a progamer survive that long in that situation either. You are macroing off of 2 almost mined out bases so it does not take that much APM to micro well vs a guy who is macroing of of 6 bases.

I'm not saying his BO and strategy is bad, if it works keep on doing it. But eventually the zergs will be practiced enough against Flash's strat. just like what happened to Bisu build.
Fav Gamers: 2)Stork 5)Bisu
dukethegold
Profile Blog Joined August 2009
Canada5645 Posts
Last Edited: 2009-12-20 01:03:12
December 20 2009 00:57 GMT
#99
On December 20 2009 07:59 lone_hydra wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 20 2009 07:42 dukethegold wrote:
On December 20 2009 07:20 lone_hydra wrote:

On December 20 2009 02:05 dukethegold wrote:
Flash did not just win, he raped the Dong. He made the Dong look like a no name Zerg.

If Shine somehow knocks Stork out of the tournament, I severely doubt anyone remaining in the two Starleagues is even remotely capable of challenging Flash in a BOX series.


Flash's TvZ is very very good. But as shown by the Zero and Hyun game, its not invincible and it gets less invincible as the days grow since he uses the same strat. Every zerg remaining has the capabilities to watch his replays and prepare themselves enough to put up a damn good challenge to Flash's TvZ.


Nope. Flash lost his game against Hyun because he made a very silly mistake at the beginning. He did not make a turret next to his mineral line. Due to that, he lost like, what, 15 scv to muta. If he placed just that one more turret, he would have won. I am sure he won't make the same mistake ever again.

But what's fricking amazing about Flash v.s. Hyun is that despite Hyun gain such an overwhelming upperhand at the beginning of the match, and had double the economy and double of the army over Flash, Flash stayed alive in the game until he was completely mined out. His TvZ is unreal. It is safely to start calling FvZ now.

Face it, no Zerg in existence is capable of taking a BOX series from Flash. Dong was the only Zerg left with a chance and he got raped hard. It was just one game, yes, but it wasn't even close.

Also, what strategy are you talking about? Flash won his game against Jaedong by denying Jaedong's third gas. If that is the strategy that you are talking about, show me couple more games from recent times when he won using the exact same strategy. I don't think out-micro, out-macro, out-play, and out-starsense count as strategy. This is like Iloveoov domination. It's just pure skill, there is no gimmicks, there is nothing you can do about it.


Wow,super fanboy alert. He goes this build every time zerg 12 hatchs. barracks, cc, bunker at natural, then medics marines. Alot of turrets in natural, turrets surrounding outskirts of main with medic and marine protecting if he scans mutas. Then he goes for the infamous terran ball push while doing a good job of denying third. he sits on 2 bases for quite a while until he is sure he has map control and expands.

Flash did not make a mistake in not building turrets in main min line vs Hyun. He almost never does, because he feels he could intimidate the opponent from going into his main with turrets outside and marines inside. No zergs would want to see all those turrets on the outskirts and marines of the main then go in towards the main min line to find more turrets and get trapped between turrets and marine fire. Hyun watched Flash's replays and realized thats what Flash wanted him to think and called Flash's bluff. It was not that impressive to see a progamer survive that long in that situation either. You are macroing off of 2 almost mined out bases so it does not take that much APM to micro well vs a guy who is macroing of of 6 bases.

I'm not saying his BO and strategy is bad, if it works keep on doing it. But eventually the zergs will be practiced enough against Flash's strat. just like what happened to Bisu build.


But that is just the same shit that most Terran does against Zergs. That is no Bisu build. It has proven effective for ages and it will remain effective till the next Zerg revolutionist. Flash simply executes it better than anybody else. Whoever figures out how to counter that build will have a build named after him. And frankly, I don't see that happening. It is a pretty rock solid terran build. And no, 4pool is not a revolutionary new build. Even the Bisu build is not obsolete at this age. Protoss neither devised a new build nor did they returned to pre-Bisu age. They are simply using variations of the Bisu build. Corsair is still the bread and butter of PvZ.

Your second paragraph simply expanded on my argument. I said that Flash would learn a lesson from his defeat against Hyun. He simply wouldn't use the same shitty turret build again. Just stick with the turret placements that work. It's like Flash and 14CC. He learned his lesson.
Zoler
Profile Blog Joined June 2008
Sweden6339 Posts
December 20 2009 04:44 GMT
#100
On December 20 2009 07:59 lone_hydra wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 20 2009 07:42 dukethegold wrote:
On December 20 2009 07:20 lone_hydra wrote:

On December 20 2009 02:05 dukethegold wrote:
Flash did not just win, he raped the Dong. He made the Dong look like a no name Zerg.

If Shine somehow knocks Stork out of the tournament, I severely doubt anyone remaining in the two Starleagues is even remotely capable of challenging Flash in a BOX series.


Flash's TvZ is very very good. But as shown by the Zero and Hyun game, its not invincible and it gets less invincible as the days grow since he uses the same strat. Every zerg remaining has the capabilities to watch his replays and prepare themselves enough to put up a damn good challenge to Flash's TvZ.


Nope. Flash lost his game against Hyun because he made a very silly mistake at the beginning. He did not make a turret next to his mineral line. Due to that, he lost like, what, 15 scv to muta. If he placed just that one more turret, he would have won. I am sure he won't make the same mistake ever again.

But what's fricking amazing about Flash v.s. Hyun is that despite Hyun gain such an overwhelming upperhand at the beginning of the match, and had double the economy and double of the army over Flash, Flash stayed alive in the game until he was completely mined out. His TvZ is unreal. It is safely to start calling FvZ now.

Face it, no Zerg in existence is capable of taking a BOX series from Flash. Dong was the only Zerg left with a chance and he got raped hard. It was just one game, yes, but it wasn't even close.

Also, what strategy are you talking about? Flash won his game against Jaedong by denying Jaedong's third gas. If that is the strategy that you are talking about, show me couple more games from recent times when he won using the exact same strategy. I don't think out-micro, out-macro, out-play, and out-starsense count as strategy. This is like Iloveoov domination. It's just pure skill, there is no gimmicks, there is nothing you can do about it.


Wow,super fanboy alert. He goes this build every time zerg 12 hatchs. barracks, cc, bunker at natural, then medics marines. Alot of turrets in natural, turrets surrounding outskirts of main with medic and marine protecting if he scans mutas. Then he goes for the infamous terran ball push while doing a good job of denying third. he sits on 2 bases for quite a while until he is sure he has map control and expands.

Flash did not make a mistake in not building turrets in main min line vs Hyun. He almost never does, because he feels he could intimidate the opponent from going into his main with turrets outside and marines inside. No zergs would want to see all those turrets on the outskirts and marines of the main then go in towards the main min line to find more turrets and get trapped between turrets and marine fire. Hyun watched Flash's replays and realized thats what Flash wanted him to think and called Flash's bluff. It was not that impressive to see a progamer survive that long in that situation either. You are macroing off of 2 almost mined out bases so it does not take that much APM to micro well vs a guy who is macroing of of 6 bases.

I'm not saying his BO and strategy is bad, if it works keep on doing it. But eventually the zergs will be practiced enough against Flash's strat. just like what happened to Bisu build.


Omg. This is one of the dumbest posts I've ever read. Everything you wrote was garbage and retarded.

"You are macroing off of 2 almost mined out bases so it does not take that much APM to micro well vs a guy who is macroing of of 6 bases."

I just don't know what to say. I'm sitting here with my mouth wide open.
Lim Yo Hwan forever!
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