Q: You’ve taken the lead after the first game. A: Jaedong hyung is a strong opponent so I’m glad to get a win in the first game. I’ll have to prepare well for next week’s games so I don’t let my guard down and can get to the semi-finals.
Q: That’s two TvZ games in a row for you. A: It was very difficult to prepare for these games. Preparing for consecutive games against the same race made it difficult for me to prepare build orders. But still, I felt okay because it was TvZ.
Q: The game was quite one-sided. A: Jaedong hyung is great at mutalisk micro and he was aiming to get to the late game. We both made some mistakes in the game, and it ended up being an easy game.
Q: What kind of mistakes? A: I let a few marines get picked off, and Jaedong’s mutalisk micro was not as good as usual.
Q: You managed to prevent Jaedong from taking a third gas. A: Blocking zerg’s third gas was the strategy I had prepared. You have to give up a third gas eventually, but my goal was to delay it as long as possible. The game ended up going so strongly in my favor I was able to deny it completely.
Q: Still, you can’t take the next games lightly. A: The maps are good for Zerg, so I knew game one was a must win. So I prepared for game one like it as do-or-die. Zerg is good on Heartbreak and Eye of the Storm, so I’ll have to work hard to stay sharp and have some good games.
Q: The crowd was huge today. A: This is the biggest crowd I’ve seen at a Starleague. I’m very grateful to all the fans, and I’ll try to repay their support next week as well.
Q: You have a game on Christmas Day next week. A: It’s a shame to have to play on Christmas, but it’s an important game for me at an important time. It really would be a merry Christmas for me if I could win. There’s plenty of time to have fun on Christmas day, so set some time aside and come watch the games!
Q: Anything else? A: I’d like to thank Byung Woo (815) hyung and Jaechoon hyung (FireFist) for their help in practicing. Also, I’d like to apologize to Zero. I think Zero might have felt pretty bad after reading my interview (Note: Flash said his own play was poor). I wanted to tell him I was really sorry, so I had to win today to get the interview. When I said my hands were numb from the cold, I was being inconsiderate to my opponent.
Jaedong's comments
“I was defeated completely. Flash’s predicted by play perfectly, and I lost because he prepared extremely well. I had lost the game as soon as he prevented my third gas. I don’t feel particularly bad for having suffered such a crushing defeat however, and it’s just strengthened my resolve to do better next game. I’m sorry to all my fans who came to cheer me on today. It’s not over yet, and I’ll win next week and reach the semi-finals.
Q: How do you feel about winning the first game? A: The first game is always important in a best 2 of 3. So I’m relieved that I won today. I suspected that my opponent may try something tricky against me, so it sucked that I fell for it.
Q: Your opponent used a prepared strategy. A: I think he had planned from the beginning to try a cannon rush.
Q: How did you feel after your hatchery went down? A: I had practiced so much so I felt the wind go out of me after I fell for his plan. Still, when his probe came in to scout my base, my lair was still building. It completed right after his scouting probe died, so I thought I could try to play some mind-games. My opponent ended up misjudging the mutalisk timing, which allowed them to be effective.
Q: Were the mutas an all-in attack? A: Even if they had been stopped, I think I could have gone to a management game. I would have been at a disadvantage, but I think I could have won.
Q: On one of Ongamenet’s programs, you were picked to be eliminated in the round of 16. A: I felt that I was still lacking in a lot of areas. I wanted to work to become the #1 contender to win any tournament.
Q: On the same show, they had a segment where they dropped a photo of you on the ground. A: It made me angry. I told myself I’d win today even if I died trying. Watching that show made me resolve not to lose today, and helped me get the win.
Q: There will be games on Christmas day. A: If I win, it will be a nice Christmas. I’m not even going to thinka bout losing. I’ll do my best to win the games.
Q: How will you prepare for the next games? A: I had prepared a build-order today so I could stop Protoss’s hanbang rush (Protoss’s big rush), but my opponent ended up using some special tactics. I thought the mind games were intense today, so I’ll try to prepare so I can win the next game flawlessly.
Q: You’ve gone one ahead in the series. A: I was surprised when I saw so many people had come to watch the games today. It made me rather nervous, so I made many mistakes that didn’t show up on camera.
Q: It makes you nervous when there’s a big crowd? A: It’s been a long time since I’ve seen a crowd this big. I’m still nervous now.
Q: You were in a bad spot in the middle of the game. A: I did well in the early game, so I didn’t think the situation was that bad. If the early game had gone on without anything happening it would have been a bad situation for me, but I took some points early on so I was confident I could win.
Q: You also lost a lot of high templars. A: Usually it would have been situation where I couldn’t afford to lose them, but I had a large army so I thought I could win in a fight. I had reavers too, didn’t I?
Q: Was it your intention to delay your expansion in order to build a bigger army? A: Normally I could have gotten a quick expansion at the same time, but I was so nervous that I couldn’t. I thought I had sent a probe to 7 o’clock, but when I checked it wasn’t there. That was how dazed I was.
Q: Your opponent Zero, is known to be strong against Protoss. A: My teammates worked really hard to help me. Our head coach gave me a lot of freedom to practice for the individual leagues, so I had sufficient practice time. I wanted to break Zero’s ZvP winning streak myself, so I was disappointed his streak had already been broken.
Q: Effort said he’d help you if you gave him a shoulder massage (note: the two joked about this in a proleague interview). A: I didn’t give him a massage (laughs). We help each other a lot anyway (laughs). We were just joking around that day.
Q: How will you prepare for the next games? A: I knew the first game would be really important. If I lost, it was going to be a hard road again. Now that I’ve won, I can prepare for the next matches with a lighter heart.
Q: Anything else? A: I’d like to say thank you to Soohyun hyung (Orion), Dooyeol (Miso), Jungwoo (Effort), and Dongwon (Hydra).
Q: You’re up one game now. A: When I saw that so many fans had come to watch, I very nervous. I’m so happy that I won today.
Q: Do you get nervous when there’s a big crowd? A: It’s the first time I’ve seen a crowd this big. I was nervous at first, but eventually I came to enjoy the situation where so many people were watching me. I think I’m a natural in the spotlight.
Q: Did you prepare a mutalisk-only strategy from the start? A: I was thinking to adjust my play to my opponent, but I got off to such a bad start that I was forced to keep making mutalisks.
Q: The beginning was quite bad for you. A: When I lost two drones early on and my opponent got away with only one photon cannon, I thought that I was in a very bad position. It was very tough, so it’s great that I won the game.
Q: Around when did you think the game had turned in your favor? A: I tried not to think about whether I had an advantage or not, I just made sure to know where my opponent’s troops were going so I could prevent him from expanding. I was so focused I had no time to try determine who had the upper hand.
Q: You’ve defeated Stork now, after defeating Bisu earlier. A: It’s too soon to celebrate. Everything will be decided for sure on Christmas next week, so I’m going to forget about today’s win and prepare for the next games.
Q: The next games will be on Christmas. A: When people asked me “What are your plans for Christmas?” I would joke and reply “I’m gonna be practicing.” I didn’t know that it would come true (laughs).
Q: You have a match vs Bisu tomorrow. A: I think he’s the best PvZ player. I think I was lucky when we last met, so I’m preparing hard for this meeting. I think it’s going to be a difficult duel, but Zerg vs Protoss is so favorable for zerg these days that I think I can win.
Q: Any final comments? A: Our team’s protoss players helped me a lot. I harassed them so they’d help me even when they had time off, so I’m thankful for the extra effort they put in for me. I have a match against Bisu tomorrow and Stork the week after, so I really have to prepare hard.
Wow, thanks. Finished Flash's interview before the third game is even over.
Also, I’d like to apologize to Zero. I think Zero might have felt pretty bad after reading my interview (Note: Flash said he played very poorly). I wanted to tell him I was really sorry, so I had to win today to get the interview. When I said my hands were numb from the cold, I was being inconsiderate to my opponent.
I'm so happy that Flash's game went so well for him! It's awesome to see all his preparation really paid off. I really hope he can keep his momentum going, seeing him doing well gives me a great feeling. Thanks for the translation Waxangel!
These two monsters.. It's very rare to see long and even games, since they will hug and take advantage of any tiny mistake and make things look extremly onesided.
I hope they will both play ontop of their games next week - would love a game similar to the game they played on RH3, that was bloody epic.
On December 18 2009 20:49 infinity2k9 wrote: I notice Flash says its the biggest crowd he's seen... yet Boxer says SC is dying?
Well it did have the huge Flash v Jaedong game on. Think about the crowds in general, not at just one event. You can see a lot of empty seats at proleague games
Q: You have a match vs Bisu tomorrow. A: I think he’s the best PvZ player. I think I was lucky when we last met, so I’m preparing hard for this meeting. I think it’s going to be a difficult duel, but Zerg vs Protoss is so favorable for zerg these days that I think I can win.
lol, no you just didnt go there lets build some antifans Shine. Im a shine fan after this, I always liked him knocking out better players by them fucking up but this is hilarious
On December 18 2009 21:12 Ota Solgryn wrote: I've said this maybe 15 times before (and been right). Jaedong always looses the first game in important sets. It's his way of making mind games.
Well, he also lost the first set of his bo3s against Flash in Bacchus 2008 and GSI...
On December 18 2009 20:54 meegrean wrote: MISTAKES??? Flash made like ZERO mistakes if you ask me -_-"
he lost a science vessel needlessly to 2 scourge if you really want to critique it that badly. He's probably just being modest, In asian societies you arnt supposed to brag, like at all.
On December 18 2009 21:38 Camlito wrote: Q: Anything else? A: I’d like to say thank you to Soohyun hyung (Orion), Dooyeol (Miso), Jungwoo (Effort), and Dongwon (Hydra).
Savior help movie
He's in charge of the post game clubbing. Not the games themselves.
Shine: I think he’s the best PvZ player. I think I was lucky when we last met, so I’m preparing hard for this meeting. I think it’s going to be a difficult duel, but Zerg vs Protoss is so favorable for zerg these days that I think I can win.
in other words: shine expects to win vs. the in his opinion best pvz player because pvz is imbalanced. there you have it!
On December 18 2009 21:19 samachking wrote: Q: You have a match vs Bisu tomorrow. A: I think he’s the best PvZ player. I think I was lucky when we last met, so I’m preparing hard for this meeting. I think it’s going to be a difficult duel, but Zerg vs Protoss is so favorable for zerg these days that I think I can win.
lol, no you just didnt go there lets build some antifans Shine. Im a shine fan after this, I always liked him knocking out better players by them fucking up but this is hilarious
Thanks for the translations
lol jju went there and then later says that zvp is hard -_-''
On December 18 2009 21:19 samachking wrote: Q: You have a match vs Bisu tomorrow. A: I think he’s the best PvZ player. I think I was lucky when we last met, so I’m preparing hard for this meeting. I think it’s going to be a difficult duel, but Zerg vs Protoss is so favorable for zerg these days that I think I can win.
lol, no you just didnt go there lets build some antifans Shine. Im a shine fan after this, I always liked him knocking out better players by them fucking up but this is hilarious
Thanks for the translations
So who's going to argue when a progamer says that ZvP is imba? Maybe now Zerg players will stop saying that Protoss is OP :3
On December 18 2009 21:38 Camlito wrote: Q: Anything else? A: I’d like to say thank you to Soohyun hyung (Orion), Dooyeol (Miso), Jungwoo (Effort), and Dongwon (Hydra).
Savior help movie
He's in charge of the post game clubbing. Not the games themselves.
hahaha nice
and I KNEW flash would win. Hes on another level. No shame in Jaedongs loss. it couldnt be helped.
Loved Movie and Shine's games, the interviews made them justice aswell.
Does anyone else feel like Shine could become the new Type-B or maybe even better? He definitely played a great game against Stork, whose only mistake was his poor scouting, and his (Shine's) 3 control group muta micro taking out the inner 8 and 9 o'clock expos was just amazing imo.
Shame that he only researched burrow to save his overlords, he could have been even safer burrowing a zergling in the inner 10 o'clock and 6 o'clock for scouting...
Also Movie is a beast. Definitely one of the top 3 protoss players right now. Playing first with no corsairs and then with no templars on 2 bases and still surviving is baller. Also when he massacred ZerO's troops in the center after being flanked i literally jumped on my chair, it was awesome to watch even as a zerg player.
He was like sleeping on the keyboard there (ofc sleeping with more APM I can imagine myself ever playing ^_^). I just hope he takes a good night sleep before next week's game. He has the skill, he just needs to be in shape.
Q: Any final comments? A: Our team’s protoss players helped me a lot. I harassed them so they’d help me even when they had time off, so I’m thankful for the extra effort they put in for me.
Q: You have a match vs Bisu tomorrow. A: I think he’s the best PvZ player. I think I was lucky when we last met, so I’m preparing hard for this meeting. I think it’s going to be a difficult duel, but Zerg vs Protoss is so favorable for zerg these days that I think I can win.
Well at least he says openly what Bisu is always blaming. Ever got the thought that Bisu simply underestimates everyone below his skill-level on paper?
Movie: Q: You also lost a lot of high templars. A: Usually it would have been situation where I couldn’t afford to lose them, but I had a large army so I thought I could win in a fight. I had reavers too, didn’t I?
On December 19 2009 07:00 tirentu wrote: Flash won the first game, so angry Jaedong will win 2-1.
Flash is no normal player though. His TvZ as shown last night is just otherworldly. Even if JD 2 hatched, flash has also destroyed zerg players with his aggressive m&m play anyhow. I don't know what JD can do. His muta harass did literally nothing, ling surrounds against flash's m&ms are impossible. I think JD is gonna get 0-2ed HARD by flash.
But let's be honest guys - if it was anyone other than JD who got rolled THAT hard, would you even give them a 10% chance to win the next two?
The other thing is, I really don't think JD looks at Flash and thinks "I'm way better than this guy". He says it in interviews but he's also brought up how amazed he is by Flash's raw skill. You gotta wonder if deep down he's subconsciously thinking "I've seen this freak of nature get hot before and he's just as good as me when it happens if not more". With any other player in all of BW he can probably confidently think to himself "I work harder AND am more talented, I am the overwhelming favorite".
Q: You have a match vs Bisu tomorrow. A: I think he’s the best PvZ player. I think I was lucky when we last met, so I’m preparing hard for this meeting. I think it’s going to be a difficult duel, but Zerg vs Protoss is so favorable for zerg these days that I think I can win.
Q: The crowd was huge today. A: This is the biggest crowd I’ve seen at a Starleague. I’m very grateful to all the fans, and I’ll try to repay their support next week as well.
Kind of negates everything Boxer said about StarCraft dying
Not really. This is the most hyped matchup of the season, more or less, and that was probably only a couple hundred people who showed up? That's not enough to really sustain a broadcastable, expensive sport for big name companies.
On December 19 2009 09:30 TwoToneTerran wrote: Not really. This is the most hyped matchup of the season, more or less, and that was probably only a couple hundred people who showed up? That's not enough to really sustain a broadcastable, expensive sport for big name companies.
"This is the biggest crowd I’ve seen at a Starleague."
If anything that shows that StarCraft has grown in the past few years. Also, I think they make their money through advertising not through people buying tickets, if they even do, but I could very well be wrong,
Did ANY of you guys ever feel that Stork is still hiding his new revolutionary Protoss Vs Zerg build? Because if he showed it to the world tonight, Shine will be able analyze it by watching VODs and therefore can find flaws in it and counter it completely?
On December 19 2009 11:08 Xiphos wrote: Did ANY of you guys ever feel that Stork is still hiding his new revolutionary Protoss Vs Zerg build? Because if he showed it to the world tonight, Shine will be able analyze it by watching VODs and therefore can find flaws in it and counter it completely?
If Stork does have a super build, he didn't use it not because he wanted to hide it, but because he did not have the chance.
I guarantee you that build, if it does exist, is meant to try to counter standard 5 hatch hydra play and its common transitions. No protoss could have prepared for pure mutas.
On December 19 2009 09:34 Pang0lin wrote: Man Stork, is going to own Shine on game 2.
Oh yeah, maybe Stork will play well enough to force Shine to make one hydralisk!
On another note, fuck the show that disrespected Calm like that.
for gods sake stork...double stargate, 2 DAs, ANYTHING Soo to crush bisu, shine 1a2a3a's hydras to demolish stork he did that with mutas Next game hes going pure speedlings into cracklings, heard it here first.
On December 19 2009 09:30 TwoToneTerran wrote: Not really. This is the most hyped matchup of the season, more or less, and that was probably only a couple hundred people who showed up? That's not enough to really sustain a broadcastable, expensive sport for big name companies.
"This is the biggest crowd I’ve seen at a Starleague."
If anything that shows that StarCraft has grown in the past few years. Also, I think they make their money through advertising not through people buying tickets, if they even do, but I could very well be wrong,
Notice the people saying it's the biggest crowd they've seen are noobies. I highly doubt Stork or Flash are saying "wow this tha biggest crowd I've seen!"
Not saying Shine and Movie are low skill, they're just new to being deep in starleagues. That's all.
On December 19 2009 09:30 TwoToneTerran wrote: Not really. This is the most hyped matchup of the season, more or less, and that was probably only a couple hundred people who showed up? That's not enough to really sustain a broadcastable, expensive sport for big name companies.
"This is the biggest crowd I’ve seen at a Starleague."
If anything that shows that StarCraft has grown in the past few years. Also, I think they make their money through advertising not through people buying tickets, if they even do, but I could very well be wrong,
Notice the people saying it's the biggest crowd they've seen are noobies. I highly doubt Stork or Flash are saying "wow this tha biggest crowd I've seen!"
Not saying Shine and Movie are low skill, they're just new to being deep in starleagues. That's all.
On December 19 2009 09:30 TwoToneTerran wrote: Not really. This is the most hyped matchup of the season, more or less, and that was probably only a couple hundred people who showed up? That's not enough to really sustain a broadcastable, expensive sport for big name companies.
"This is the biggest crowd I’ve seen at a Starleague."
If anything that shows that StarCraft has grown in the past few years. Also, I think they make their money through advertising not through people buying tickets, if they even do, but I could very well be wrong,
Notice the people saying it's the biggest crowd they've seen are noobies. I highly doubt Stork or Flash are saying "wow this tha biggest crowd I've seen!"
Not saying Shine and Movie are low skill, they're just new to being deep in starleagues. That's all.
Notice how it was Flash who said that.
Flash probably meant for one of HIS group stage matches - so that kind of wouldn't include all the stuff from 3+ years ago.
On December 19 2009 09:30 TwoToneTerran wrote: Not really. This is the most hyped matchup of the season, more or less, and that was probably only a couple hundred people who showed up? That's not enough to really sustain a broadcastable, expensive sport for big name companies.
"This is the biggest crowd I’ve seen at a Starleague."
If anything that shows that StarCraft has grown in the past few years. Also, I think they make their money through advertising not through people buying tickets, if they even do, but I could very well be wrong,
Notice the people saying it's the biggest crowd they've seen are noobies. I highly doubt Stork or Flash are saying "wow this tha biggest crowd I've seen!"
Not saying Shine and Movie are low skill, they're just new to being deep in starleagues. That's all.
Notice how it was Flash who said that.
Flash probably meant for one of HIS group stage matches - so that kind of wouldn't include all the stuff from 3+ years ago.
why don't you ask him and get back to me, until then we can assume he meant what he said
On December 18 2009 19:41 Waxangel wrote: Q: You have a match vs Bisu tomorrow. A: I think he’s the best PvZ player. I think I was lucky when we last met, so I’m preparing hard for this meeting. I think it’s going to be a difficult duel, but Zerg vs Protoss is so favorable for zerg these days that I think I can win.
Though your name is Shine, it doesn't mean you're really shining. You're nowhere near Protoss-destroyer.
On December 18 2009 19:41 Waxangel wrote: Q: You have a match vs Bisu tomorrow. A: I think he’s the best PvZ player. I think I was lucky when we last met, so I’m preparing hard for this meeting. I think it’s going to be a difficult duel, but Zerg vs Protoss is so favorable for zerg these days that I think I can win.
Though your name is Shine, it doesn't mean you're really shining. You're nowhere near Protoss-destroyer.
Stork seems to think otherwise.
Also, calling flash the winner seems like a bit of an understatement.
Flash did not just win, he raped the Dong. He made the Dong look like a no name Zerg.
If Shine somehow knocks Stork out of the tournament, I severely doubt anyone remaining in the two Starleagues is even remotely capable of challenging Flash in a BOX series.
Fun fact, if Flash wins 7 more games in a row (Resulting in an 11 win streak, which is actually reasonable for Flash), he'll break a 70% lifetime winrate. I think that'd make him the first player with over 300 games to have a 70% overall winrate.
On December 20 2009 02:24 Waxangel wrote: if Zero gets his shit together, I expect him to be able to take a game at least vs Flash, tho not win the series.
Next game is on the Match Point, not really the most friendly map for Zerg. But who knows what will happen. That's exactly the map on which Flash streak was broken...
On December 19 2009 09:30 TwoToneTerran wrote: Not really. This is the most hyped matchup of the season, more or less, and that was probably only a couple hundred people who showed up? That's not enough to really sustain a broadcastable, expensive sport for big name companies.
"This is the biggest crowd I’ve seen at a Starleague."
If anything that shows that StarCraft has grown in the past few years. Also, I think they make their money through advertising not through people buying tickets, if they even do, but I could very well be wrong,
Notice the people saying it's the biggest crowd they've seen are noobies. I highly doubt Stork or Flash are saying "wow this tha biggest crowd I've seen!"
Not saying Shine and Movie are low skill, they're just new to being deep in starleagues. That's all.
Notice how it was Flash who said that.
Flash probably meant for one of HIS group stage matches - so that kind of wouldn't include all the stuff from 3+ years ago.
why don't you ask him and get back to me, until then we can assume he meant what he said
Are you serious? This was a translation first of all. It obviously wasn't the biggest Starleague crowd he'd ever seen because every finals crowd is like 10x bigger. So clearly there were some implications built in to his statement. I can't believe you're taking a translation and saying "let's just take it word for word and turn off our brains".
On December 19 2009 09:30 TwoToneTerran wrote: Not really. This is the most hyped matchup of the season, more or less, and that was probably only a couple hundred people who showed up? That's not enough to really sustain a broadcastable, expensive sport for big name companies.
"This is the biggest crowd I’ve seen at a Starleague."
If anything that shows that StarCraft has grown in the past few years. Also, I think they make their money through advertising not through people buying tickets, if they even do, but I could very well be wrong,
Notice the people saying it's the biggest crowd they've seen are noobies. I highly doubt Stork or Flash are saying "wow this tha biggest crowd I've seen!"
Not saying Shine and Movie are low skill, they're just new to being deep in starleagues. That's all.
Notice how it was Flash who said that.
Flash probably meant for one of HIS group stage matches - so that kind of wouldn't include all the stuff from 3+ years ago.
why don't you ask him and get back to me, until then we can assume he meant what he said
Are you serious? This was a translation first of all. It obviously wasn't the biggest Starleague crowd he'd ever seen because every finals crowd is like 10x bigger. So clearly there were some implications built in to his statement. I can't believe you're taking a translation and saying "let's just take it word for word and turn off our brains".
The translation is right, but flash probably meant for group stages. obviously more people will show up to a finals than they would to a ro8 week 1 series.
There are 3 people who are in both tournaments. And they are all fighting each other or at least not to get knocked out by Flash
On December 20 2009 02:05 dukethegold wrote: Flash did not just win, he raped the Dong. He made the Dong look like a no name Zerg.
If Shine somehow knocks Stork out of the tournament, I severely doubt anyone remaining in the two Starleagues is even remotely capable of challenging Flash in a BOX series.
Flash's TvZ is very very good. But as shown by the Zero and Hyun game, its not invincible and it gets less invincible as the days grow since he uses the same strat. Every zerg remaining has the capabilities to watch his replays and prepare themselves enough to put up a damn good challenge to Flash's TvZ.
On December 20 2009 02:05 dukethegold wrote: Flash did not just win, he raped the Dong. He made the Dong look like a no name Zerg.
If Shine somehow knocks Stork out of the tournament, I severely doubt anyone remaining in the two Starleagues is even remotely capable of challenging Flash in a BOX series.
Flash's TvZ is very very good. But as shown by the Zero and Hyun game, its not invincible and it gets less invincible as the days grow since he uses the same strat. Every zerg remaining has the capabilities to watch his replays and prepare themselves enough to put up a damn good challenge to Flash's TvZ.
Nope. Flash lost his game against Hyun because he made a very silly mistake at the beginning. He did not make a turret next to his mineral line. (Flash and Turret, a never ending tragic tale of epic proportion) Due to that, he lost like, what, 15 scv to muta. If he placed just that one more turret, he would have won. I am sure he won't make the same mistake ever again.
But what's fricking amazing about Flash v.s. Hyun is that despite Hyun gain such an overwhelming upperhand at the beginning of the match, and had double the economy and double of the army over Flash, Flash stayed alive in the game until he was completely mined out. His TvZ is unreal. It is safely to start calling FvZ now.
Face it, no Zerg in existence is capable of taking a BOX series from Flash. Dong was the only Zerg left with a chance and he got raped hard. It was just one game, yes, but it wasn't even close.
Also, what strategy are you talking about? Flash won his game against Jaedong by denying Jaedong's third gas. If that is the strategy that you are talking about, show me couple more games from recent times when he won using the exact same strategy. I don't think out-micro, out-macro, out-play, and out-starsense count as strategy. This is like Iloveoov domination. It's just pure skill, there is no gimmicks, there is nothing you can do about it.
On December 20 2009 07:20 lone_hydra wrote: There are 3 people who are in both tournaments. And they are all fighting each other or at least not to get knocked out by Flash
On December 20 2009 02:05 dukethegold wrote: Flash did not just win, he raped the Dong. He made the Dong look like a no name Zerg.
If Shine somehow knocks Stork out of the tournament, I severely doubt anyone remaining in the two Starleagues is even remotely capable of challenging Flash in a BOX series.
Flash's TvZ is very very good. But as shown by the Zero and Hyun game, its not invincible and it gets less invincible as the days grow since he uses the same strat. Every zerg remaining has the capabilities to watch his replays and prepare themselves enough to put up a damn good challenge to Flash's TvZ.
On December 20 2009 02:05 dukethegold wrote: Flash did not just win, he raped the Dong. He made the Dong look like a no name Zerg.
If Shine somehow knocks Stork out of the tournament, I severely doubt anyone remaining in the two Starleagues is even remotely capable of challenging Flash in a BOX series.
Flash's TvZ is very very good. But as shown by the Zero and Hyun game, its not invincible and it gets less invincible as the days grow since he uses the same strat. Every zerg remaining has the capabilities to watch his replays and prepare themselves enough to put up a damn good challenge to Flash's TvZ.
Nope. Flash lost his game against Hyun because he made a very silly mistake at the beginning. He did not make a turret next to his mineral line. Due to that, he lost like, what, 15 scv to muta. If he placed just that one more turret, he would have won. I am sure he won't make the same mistake ever again.
But what's fricking amazing about Flash v.s. Hyun is that despite Hyun gain such an overwhelming upperhand at the beginning of the match, and had double the economy and double of the army over Flash, Flash stayed alive in the game until he was completely mined out. His TvZ is unreal. It is safely to start calling FvZ now.
Face it, no Zerg in existence is capable of taking a BOX series from Flash. Dong was the only Zerg left with a chance and he got raped hard. It was just one game, yes, but it wasn't even close.
Also, what strategy are you talking about? Flash won his game against Jaedong by denying Jaedong's third gas. If that is the strategy that you are talking about, show me couple more games from recent times when he won using the exact same strategy. I don't think out-micro, out-macro, out-play, and out-starsense count as strategy. This is like Iloveoov domination. It's just pure skill, there is no gimmicks, there is nothing you can do about it.
Wow,super fanboy alert. He goes this build every time zerg 12 hatchs. barracks, cc, bunker at natural, then medics marines. Alot of turrets in natural, turrets surrounding outskirts of main with medic and marine protecting if he scans mutas. Then he goes for the infamous terran ball push while doing a good job of denying third. he sits on 2 bases for quite a while until he is sure he has map control and expands.
Flash did not make a mistake in not building turrets in main min line vs Hyun. He almost never does, because he feels he could intimidate the opponent from going into his main with turrets outside and marines inside. No zergs would want to see all those turrets on the outskirts and marines of the main then go in towards the main min line to find more turrets and get trapped between turrets and marine fire. Hyun watched Flash's replays and realized thats what Flash wanted him to think and called Flash's bluff. It was not that impressive to see a progamer survive that long in that situation either. You are macroing off of 2 almost mined out bases so it does not take that much APM to micro well vs a guy who is macroing of of 6 bases.
I'm not saying his BO and strategy is bad, if it works keep on doing it. But eventually the zergs will be practiced enough against Flash's strat. just like what happened to Bisu build.
On December 20 2009 02:05 dukethegold wrote: Flash did not just win, he raped the Dong. He made the Dong look like a no name Zerg.
If Shine somehow knocks Stork out of the tournament, I severely doubt anyone remaining in the two Starleagues is even remotely capable of challenging Flash in a BOX series.
Flash's TvZ is very very good. But as shown by the Zero and Hyun game, its not invincible and it gets less invincible as the days grow since he uses the same strat. Every zerg remaining has the capabilities to watch his replays and prepare themselves enough to put up a damn good challenge to Flash's TvZ.
Nope. Flash lost his game against Hyun because he made a very silly mistake at the beginning. He did not make a turret next to his mineral line. Due to that, he lost like, what, 15 scv to muta. If he placed just that one more turret, he would have won. I am sure he won't make the same mistake ever again.
But what's fricking amazing about Flash v.s. Hyun is that despite Hyun gain such an overwhelming upperhand at the beginning of the match, and had double the economy and double of the army over Flash, Flash stayed alive in the game until he was completely mined out. His TvZ is unreal. It is safely to start calling FvZ now.
Face it, no Zerg in existence is capable of taking a BOX series from Flash. Dong was the only Zerg left with a chance and he got raped hard. It was just one game, yes, but it wasn't even close.
Also, what strategy are you talking about? Flash won his game against Jaedong by denying Jaedong's third gas. If that is the strategy that you are talking about, show me couple more games from recent times when he won using the exact same strategy. I don't think out-micro, out-macro, out-play, and out-starsense count as strategy. This is like Iloveoov domination. It's just pure skill, there is no gimmicks, there is nothing you can do about it.
Wow,super fanboy alert. He goes this build every time zerg 12 hatchs. barracks, cc, bunker at natural, then medics marines. Alot of turrets in natural, turrets surrounding outskirts of main with medic and marine protecting if he scans mutas. Then he goes for the infamous terran ball push while doing a good job of denying third. he sits on 2 bases for quite a while until he is sure he has map control and expands.
Flash did not make a mistake in not building turrets in main min line vs Hyun. He almost never does, because he feels he could intimidate the opponent from going into his main with turrets outside and marines inside. No zergs would want to see all those turrets on the outskirts and marines of the main then go in towards the main min line to find more turrets and get trapped between turrets and marine fire. Hyun watched Flash's replays and realized thats what Flash wanted him to think and called Flash's bluff. It was not that impressive to see a progamer survive that long in that situation either. You are macroing off of 2 almost mined out bases so it does not take that much APM to micro well vs a guy who is macroing of of 6 bases.
I'm not saying his BO and strategy is bad, if it works keep on doing it. But eventually the zergs will be practiced enough against Flash's strat. just like what happened to Bisu build.
But that is just the same shit that most Terran does against Zergs. That is no Bisu build. It has proven effective for ages and it will remain effective till the next Zerg revolutionist. Flash simply executes it better than anybody else. Whoever figures out how to counter that build will have a build named after him. And frankly, I don't see that happening. It is a pretty rock solid terran build. And no, 4pool is not a revolutionary new build. Even the Bisu build is not obsolete at this age. Protoss neither devised a new build nor did they returned to pre-Bisu age. They are simply using variations of the Bisu build. Corsair is still the bread and butter of PvZ.
Your second paragraph simply expanded on my argument. I said that Flash would learn a lesson from his defeat against Hyun. He simply wouldn't use the same shitty turret build again. Just stick with the turret placements that work. It's like Flash and 14CC. He learned his lesson.
On December 20 2009 02:05 dukethegold wrote: Flash did not just win, he raped the Dong. He made the Dong look like a no name Zerg.
If Shine somehow knocks Stork out of the tournament, I severely doubt anyone remaining in the two Starleagues is even remotely capable of challenging Flash in a BOX series.
Flash's TvZ is very very good. But as shown by the Zero and Hyun game, its not invincible and it gets less invincible as the days grow since he uses the same strat. Every zerg remaining has the capabilities to watch his replays and prepare themselves enough to put up a damn good challenge to Flash's TvZ.
Nope. Flash lost his game against Hyun because he made a very silly mistake at the beginning. He did not make a turret next to his mineral line. Due to that, he lost like, what, 15 scv to muta. If he placed just that one more turret, he would have won. I am sure he won't make the same mistake ever again.
But what's fricking amazing about Flash v.s. Hyun is that despite Hyun gain such an overwhelming upperhand at the beginning of the match, and had double the economy and double of the army over Flash, Flash stayed alive in the game until he was completely mined out. His TvZ is unreal. It is safely to start calling FvZ now.
Face it, no Zerg in existence is capable of taking a BOX series from Flash. Dong was the only Zerg left with a chance and he got raped hard. It was just one game, yes, but it wasn't even close.
Also, what strategy are you talking about? Flash won his game against Jaedong by denying Jaedong's third gas. If that is the strategy that you are talking about, show me couple more games from recent times when he won using the exact same strategy. I don't think out-micro, out-macro, out-play, and out-starsense count as strategy. This is like Iloveoov domination. It's just pure skill, there is no gimmicks, there is nothing you can do about it.
Wow,super fanboy alert. He goes this build every time zerg 12 hatchs. barracks, cc, bunker at natural, then medics marines. Alot of turrets in natural, turrets surrounding outskirts of main with medic and marine protecting if he scans mutas. Then he goes for the infamous terran ball push while doing a good job of denying third. he sits on 2 bases for quite a while until he is sure he has map control and expands.
Flash did not make a mistake in not building turrets in main min line vs Hyun. He almost never does, because he feels he could intimidate the opponent from going into his main with turrets outside and marines inside. No zergs would want to see all those turrets on the outskirts and marines of the main then go in towards the main min line to find more turrets and get trapped between turrets and marine fire. Hyun watched Flash's replays and realized thats what Flash wanted him to think and called Flash's bluff. It was not that impressive to see a progamer survive that long in that situation either. You are macroing off of 2 almost mined out bases so it does not take that much APM to micro well vs a guy who is macroing of of 6 bases.
I'm not saying his BO and strategy is bad, if it works keep on doing it. But eventually the zergs will be practiced enough against Flash's strat. just like what happened to Bisu build.
Omg. This is one of the dumbest posts I've ever read. Everything you wrote was garbage and retarded.
"You are macroing off of 2 almost mined out bases so it does not take that much APM to micro well vs a guy who is macroing of of 6 bases."
I just don't know what to say. I'm sitting here with my mouth wide open.
I don't understand why people are talking like Flash is using some gimmicky as build. The metagame he's using is definitely different (early aggression with early group of MnM's) but it's not some build like Leta's 2port Wraiths. Flash is as standard as they come, it just shows how ridiculous his mechanics and game sense is.
All the progamers commented that they were surprised to see so many spectators to watch "the games," but most likely they came to watch "the game," aka Flash vs Jaedong. Pity most probably ended up disappointed. I wonder if the other progamers realized that.
On December 20 2009 02:05 dukethegold wrote: Flash did not just win, he raped the Dong. He made the Dong look like a no name Zerg.
If Shine somehow knocks Stork out of the tournament, I severely doubt anyone remaining in the two Starleagues is even remotely capable of challenging Flash in a BOX series.
Flash's TvZ is very very good. But as shown by the Zero and Hyun game, its not invincible and it gets less invincible as the days grow since he uses the same strat. Every zerg remaining has the capabilities to watch his replays and prepare themselves enough to put up a damn good challenge to Flash's TvZ.
Nope. Flash lost his game against Hyun because he made a very silly mistake at the beginning. He did not make a turret next to his mineral line. Due to that, he lost like, what, 15 scv to muta. If he placed just that one more turret, he would have won. I am sure he won't make the same mistake ever again.
But what's fricking amazing about Flash v.s. Hyun is that despite Hyun gain such an overwhelming upperhand at the beginning of the match, and had double the economy and double of the army over Flash, Flash stayed alive in the game until he was completely mined out. His TvZ is unreal. It is safely to start calling FvZ now.
Face it, no Zerg in existence is capable of taking a BOX series from Flash. Dong was the only Zerg left with a chance and he got raped hard. It was just one game, yes, but it wasn't even close.
Also, what strategy are you talking about? Flash won his game against Jaedong by denying Jaedong's third gas. If that is the strategy that you are talking about, show me couple more games from recent times when he won using the exact same strategy. I don't think out-micro, out-macro, out-play, and out-starsense count as strategy. This is like Iloveoov domination. It's just pure skill, there is no gimmicks, there is nothing you can do about it.
Wow,super fanboy alert. He goes this build every time zerg 12 hatchs. barracks, cc, bunker at natural, then medics marines. Alot of turrets in natural, turrets surrounding outskirts of main with medic and marine protecting if he scans mutas. Then he goes for the infamous terran ball push while doing a good job of denying third. he sits on 2 bases for quite a while until he is sure he has map control and expands.
Flash did not make a mistake in not building turrets in main min line vs Hyun. He almost never does, because he feels he could intimidate the opponent from going into his main with turrets outside and marines inside. No zergs would want to see all those turrets on the outskirts and marines of the main then go in towards the main min line to find more turrets and get trapped between turrets and marine fire. Hyun watched Flash's replays and realized thats what Flash wanted him to think and called Flash's bluff. It was not that impressive to see a progamer survive that long in that situation either. You are macroing off of 2 almost mined out bases so it does not take that much APM to micro well vs a guy who is macroing of of 6 bases.
I'm not saying his BO and strategy is bad, if it works keep on doing it. But eventually the zergs will be practiced enough against Flash's strat. just like what happened to Bisu build.
Omg. This is one of the dumbest posts I've ever read. Everything you wrote was garbage and retarded.
"You are macroing off of 2 almost mined out bases so it does not take that much APM to micro well vs a guy who is macroing of of 6 bases."
I just don't know what to say. I'm sitting here with my mouth wide open.
Ok I worded that bad. Let me rephrase. Flash had 2 bases to macro from while microing. Hyun had 6 bases to macro from while microing. So obviously Flash's micro is gonna look alot better in comparison to hyuns.You cannot say is micro was godly in comparison to other pro gamers just from that. How does that not make sense???
I never said Flash was bad or his build or his strartegy is gimmicky. I just said he goes for practically the same strategy every time when he deals with 12 hatch. Watch his games people. And all I am saying is that eventually zergs are gonna learn to deal with it alot better like they learnt to deal with bisu build. is it that much of a ridiculous statement?
On December 20 2009 02:05 dukethegold wrote: Flash did not just win, he raped the Dong. He made the Dong look like a no name Zerg.
If Shine somehow knocks Stork out of the tournament, I severely doubt anyone remaining in the two Starleagues is even remotely capable of challenging Flash in a BOX series.
Flash's TvZ is very very good. But as shown by the Zero and Hyun game, its not invincible and it gets less invincible as the days grow since he uses the same strat. Every zerg remaining has the capabilities to watch his replays and prepare themselves enough to put up a damn good challenge to Flash's TvZ.
Nope. Flash lost his game against Hyun because he made a very silly mistake at the beginning. He did not make a turret next to his mineral line. (Flash and Turret, a never ending tragic tale of epic proportion) Due to that, he lost like, what, 15 scv to muta. If he placed just that one more turret, he would have won. I am sure he won't make the same mistake ever again.
But what's fricking amazing about Flash v.s. Hyun is that despite Hyun gain such an overwhelming upperhand at the beginning of the match, and had double the economy and double of the army over Flash, Flash stayed alive in the game until he was completely mined out. His TvZ is unreal. It is safely to start calling FvZ now.
Face it, no Zerg in existence is capable of taking a BOX series from Flash. Dong was the only Zerg left with a chance and he got raped hard. It was just one game, yes, but it wasn't even close.
Also, what strategy are you talking about? Flash won his game against Jaedong by denying Jaedong's third gas. If that is the strategy that you are talking about, show me couple more games from recent times when he won using the exact same strategy. I don't think out-micro, out-macro, out-play, and out-starsense count as strategy. This is like Iloveoov domination. It's just pure skill, there is no gimmicks, there is nothing you can do about it.
Sigh. JD has lost games in embarassing fashion and he has no problem turning around and raping the very next game. Your analysis based on a single game is just plain fail. And Zero's game vs Flash was close until his epic hive-play fail. Flash is not a god. He's just very good.
I agree that it will just take Zergs a little time to counter Flash's new style of play. The solution to a group of marines roaming the middle of the map is probably just to delay the third base a little and mutaling the rines down. For some reason this game JD decided to build the third base earlier instead which was obviously a terrible decision and JD knew he lost after he was forced to cancel it (hence the attempt at a "counter").
I don't think Flash's new style is as invincible as people seem to think it is. This game wasn't Flash outclassing JD in every way or anything, and I still think JD is capable of defeating Flash. I will be very surprised if JD doesn't have an answer to Flash's attempts to delay the third in their next games.
I don't know. Nothing is invincible, but I've always felt that Flash would be nearly invincible in TvZ if he did two things: 1. Act like its a PvZ and scout constantly and 2. Focus on marines and turrets rather than teching. Those two things he did in that game.
Flash doesn't really need vessels that quickly because lurkers are little threat to him. Mutas are, but if he puts a premium on getting crazy amounts of marines, he can deal with them.
On December 20 2009 02:05 dukethegold wrote: Flash did not just win, he raped the Dong. He made the Dong look like a no name Zerg.
If Shine somehow knocks Stork out of the tournament, I severely doubt anyone remaining in the two Starleagues is even remotely capable of challenging Flash in a BOX series.
Flash's TvZ is very very good. But as shown by the Zero and Hyun game, its not invincible and it gets less invincible as the days grow since he uses the same strat. Every zerg remaining has the capabilities to watch his replays and prepare themselves enough to put up a damn good challenge to Flash's TvZ.
Nope. Flash lost his game against Hyun because he made a very silly mistake at the beginning. He did not make a turret next to his mineral line. Due to that, he lost like, what, 15 scv to muta. If he placed just that one more turret, he would have won. I am sure he won't make the same mistake ever again.
But what's fricking amazing about Flash v.s. Hyun is that despite Hyun gain such an overwhelming upperhand at the beginning of the match, and had double the economy and double of the army over Flash, Flash stayed alive in the game until he was completely mined out. His TvZ is unreal. It is safely to start calling FvZ now.
Face it, no Zerg in existence is capable of taking a BOX series from Flash. Dong was the only Zerg left with a chance and he got raped hard. It was just one game, yes, but it wasn't even close.
Also, what strategy are you talking about? Flash won his game against Jaedong by denying Jaedong's third gas. If that is the strategy that you are talking about, show me couple more games from recent times when he won using the exact same strategy. I don't think out-micro, out-macro, out-play, and out-starsense count as strategy. This is like Iloveoov domination. It's just pure skill, there is no gimmicks, there is nothing you can do about it.
Wow,super fanboy alert. He goes this build every time zerg 12 hatchs. barracks, cc, bunker at natural, then medics marines. Alot of turrets in natural, turrets surrounding outskirts of main with medic and marine protecting if he scans mutas. Then he goes for the infamous terran ball push while doing a good job of denying third. he sits on 2 bases for quite a while until he is sure he has map control and expands.
Flash did not make a mistake in not building turrets in main min line vs Hyun. He almost never does, because he feels he could intimidate the opponent from going into his main with turrets outside and marines inside. No zergs would want to see all those turrets on the outskirts and marines of the main then go in towards the main min line to find more turrets and get trapped between turrets and marine fire. Hyun watched Flash's replays and realized thats what Flash wanted him to think and called Flash's bluff. It was not that impressive to see a progamer survive that long in that situation either. You are macroing off of 2 almost mined out bases so it does not take that much APM to micro well vs a guy who is macroing of of 6 bases.
I'm not saying his BO and strategy is bad, if it works keep on doing it. But eventually the zergs will be practiced enough against Flash's strat. just like what happened to Bisu build.
Omg. This is one of the dumbest posts I've ever read. Everything you wrote was garbage and retarded.
"You are macroing off of 2 almost mined out bases so it does not take that much APM to micro well vs a guy who is macroing of of 6 bases."
I just don't know what to say. I'm sitting here with my mouth wide open.
Ok I worded that bad. Let me rephrase. Flash had 2 bases to macro from while microing. Hyun had 6 bases to macro from while microing. So obviously Flash's micro is gonna look alot better in comparison to hyuns.You cannot say is micro was godly in comparison to other pro gamers just from that. How does that not make sense???
Have you played M&M? It's definitely possible to macro off 4+ Zerg bases (here's a tip - did you know you can hotkey almost every production Hatchery...) as easily as it is to macro off of 7 or 8 Rax. The marine timing is ridiculous - you basically can't miss a single round or it starts adding up, whereas with Zerg you're basically ok in the long run or late game as long as you don't let your hatches get to three larvae, which takes waaaaaaay longer than a Marine production round. Terran also has to hotkey nearly every Marine to maximize their effectiveness (otherwise you will over/under stim) which is another thing Zerg does not have to do.
So yes, it is grossly misleading to say 6 base > 2 base in terms of difficulty to use. Not saying Zerg is easy (personally I find it to be the hardest actually) by any means. But your point is very flawed.
On December 20 2009 14:04 QuakerOats wrote: I agree that it will just take Zergs a little time to counter Flash's new style of play. The solution to a group of marines roaming the middle of the map is probably just to delay the third base a little and mutaling the rines down.
I don't think this is as easy as it sounds. It's not like Flash's roaming style is new ... there must be more subtlety to it than it looks. Flash is roaming when he feels he can roam (watching army/sunken/drone/hatchery count to judge) and he often gets his money's worth when his roaming group gets killed. Also he's been pretty careful with positioning them and you can lose a ton of units trying to kill a group of M&M if they're at a choke or on a ramp as Zerg, enough to justify the cost.
On December 20 2009 14:04 QuakerOats wrote: This game wasn't Flash outclassing JD in every way or anything
Actually, that one game was absolutely Flash outclassing JD in every way. But as players, no of course Flash does not outclass JD. If anyone can figure out a way, JD can. But that one game - there was nothing JD did better or even equally as good as Flash.
On December 20 2009 02:05 dukethegold wrote: Flash did not just win, he raped the Dong. He made the Dong look like a no name Zerg.
If Shine somehow knocks Stork out of the tournament, I severely doubt anyone remaining in the two Starleagues is even remotely capable of challenging Flash in a BOX series.
Flash's TvZ is very very good. But as shown by the Zero and Hyun game, its not invincible and it gets less invincible as the days grow since he uses the same strat. Every zerg remaining has the capabilities to watch his replays and prepare themselves enough to put up a damn good challenge to Flash's TvZ.
Nope. Flash lost his game against Hyun because he made a very silly mistake at the beginning. He did not make a turret next to his mineral line. Due to that, he lost like, what, 15 scv to muta. If he placed just that one more turret, he would have won. I am sure he won't make the same mistake ever again.
But what's fricking amazing about Flash v.s. Hyun is that despite Hyun gain such an overwhelming upperhand at the beginning of the match, and had double the economy and double of the army over Flash, Flash stayed alive in the game until he was completely mined out. His TvZ is unreal. It is safely to start calling FvZ now.
Face it, no Zerg in existence is capable of taking a BOX series from Flash. Dong was the only Zerg left with a chance and he got raped hard. It was just one game, yes, but it wasn't even close.
Also, what strategy are you talking about? Flash won his game against Jaedong by denying Jaedong's third gas. If that is the strategy that you are talking about, show me couple more games from recent times when he won using the exact same strategy. I don't think out-micro, out-macro, out-play, and out-starsense count as strategy. This is like Iloveoov domination. It's just pure skill, there is no gimmicks, there is nothing you can do about it.
Wow,super fanboy alert. He goes this build every time zerg 12 hatchs. barracks, cc, bunker at natural, then medics marines. Alot of turrets in natural, turrets surrounding outskirts of main with medic and marine protecting if he scans mutas. Then he goes for the infamous terran ball push while doing a good job of denying third. he sits on 2 bases for quite a while until he is sure he has map control and expands.
Flash did not make a mistake in not building turrets in main min line vs Hyun. He almost never does, because he feels he could intimidate the opponent from going into his main with turrets outside and marines inside. No zergs would want to see all those turrets on the outskirts and marines of the main then go in towards the main min line to find more turrets and get trapped between turrets and marine fire. Hyun watched Flash's replays and realized thats what Flash wanted him to think and called Flash's bluff. It was not that impressive to see a progamer survive that long in that situation either. You are macroing off of 2 almost mined out bases so it does not take that much APM to micro well vs a guy who is macroing of of 6 bases.
I'm not saying his BO and strategy is bad, if it works keep on doing it. But eventually the zergs will be practiced enough against Flash's strat. just like what happened to Bisu build.
Omg. This is one of the dumbest posts I've ever read. Everything you wrote was garbage and retarded.
"You are macroing off of 2 almost mined out bases so it does not take that much APM to micro well vs a guy who is macroing of of 6 bases."
I just don't know what to say. I'm sitting here with my mouth wide open.
Ok I worded that bad. Let me rephrase. Flash had 2 bases to macro from while microing. Hyun had 6 bases to macro from while microing. So obviously Flash's micro is gonna look alot better in comparison to hyuns.You cannot say is micro was godly in comparison to other pro gamers just from that. How does that not make sense???
Have you played M&M? It's definitely possible to macro off 4+ Zerg bases (here's a tip - did you know you can hotkey almost every production Hatchery...) as easily as it is to macro off of 7 or 8 Rax. The marine timing is ridiculous - you basically can't miss a single round or it starts adding up, whereas with Zerg you're basically ok in the long run or late game as long as you don't let your hatches get to three larvae, which takes waaaaaaay longer than a Marine production round. Terran also has to hotkey nearly every Marine to maximize their effectiveness (otherwise you will over/under stim) which is another thing Zerg does not have to do.
So yes, it is grossly misleading to say 6 base > 2 base in terms of difficulty to use. Not saying Zerg is easy (personally I find it to be the hardest actually) by any means. But your point is very flawed.
Hmm... really interesting. If thats true then I guess my argument is pretty invalid. But consuming and dark swarms along with scourge take up apm as well. Even if terran requires so much more apm to macro and micro, I still find it hard to wrap my head around a 2 base terran having a harder time to micro and macro compared to a 6 base zerg.
Thanks for the insight anyways.
And I'll still stick to my view that Flash did not lose because of a mistake. He tried to bluff the number of turrets he had and Hyun called his bluff.
On December 20 2009 02:05 dukethegold wrote: Flash did not just win, he raped the Dong. He made the Dong look like a no name Zerg.
If Shine somehow knocks Stork out of the tournament, I severely doubt anyone remaining in the two Starleagues is even remotely capable of challenging Flash in a BOX series.
Flash's TvZ is very very good. But as shown by the Zero and Hyun game, its not invincible and it gets less invincible as the days grow since he uses the same strat. Every zerg remaining has the capabilities to watch his replays and prepare themselves enough to put up a damn good challenge to Flash's TvZ.
Nope. Flash lost his game against Hyun because he made a very silly mistake at the beginning. He did not make a turret next to his mineral line. (Flash and Turret, a never ending tragic tale of epic proportion) Due to that, he lost like, what, 15 scv to muta. If he placed just that one more turret, he would have won. I am sure he won't make the same mistake ever again.
But what's fricking amazing about Flash v.s. Hyun is that despite Hyun gain such an overwhelming upperhand at the beginning of the match, and had double the economy and double of the army over Flash, Flash stayed alive in the game until he was completely mined out. His TvZ is unreal. It is safely to start calling FvZ now.
Face it, no Zerg in existence is capable of taking a BOX series from Flash. Dong was the only Zerg left with a chance and he got raped hard. It was just one game, yes, but it wasn't even close.
Also, what strategy are you talking about? Flash won his game against Jaedong by denying Jaedong's third gas. If that is the strategy that you are talking about, show me couple more games from recent times when he won using the exact same strategy. I don't think out-micro, out-macro, out-play, and out-starsense count as strategy. This is like Iloveoov domination. It's just pure skill, there is no gimmicks, there is nothing you can do about it.
Sigh. JD has lost games in embarassing fashion and he has no problem turning around and raping the very next game. Your analysis based on a single game is just plain fail. And Zero's game vs Flash was close until his epic hive-play fail. Flash is not a god. He's just very good.
I indeed stated that it was just one single game. However, Flash's current form against Zerg is not based on single game, it is based on a mind bottling 25-1 victories against Zergs (I am not counting the one game where Flash nuked himself, twice, on purpose). Almost every single one of them was a one sided domination. I DID NOT call Flash god, so don't put words into my mouth. What I meant, is that Flash has met every single standard that Jaedong met when people started to call Jaedong v.s. Zerg, JvZ.
Most people expressed doubt in Flash's TvZ because he has yet to prove his skill against a top level player (not counting Effort in WCG). And now, he has met that standard, or is very close to achieving it. He defeated Jaedong and Zero in convincing manners. At this point, it is an safe to say that neither Jaedong nor Zero is likely to win their respective BOX series against Flash, especially Zero, who will have to worry about Movie.
What I do find interest, is on what basis that you are claiming that Jaedong will definitely rape Flash during their next BOX series? Jaedong is capable of defeating Flash, yes, theoretically speaking. But I have not seen any solid evidence of such as of yet. Jaedong will practice his ass off. But so will Flash. And Flash got only TvZ to worried about in his starleague runs.
Also Flash stated that his condition was bad during his game v.s. Zero due to freezing temperature. I don't think Flash is the type who boasts. The man was telling the truth.
On December 21 2009 01:54 On_Slaught wrote: Pretty funny that flash says HBR is a good zerg map just because it's almost 50/50! God forbid zerg have a chance .
well since TvZ favours the Terran, a 50/50 map does favour the zerg :p
On December 21 2009 01:54 On_Slaught wrote: Pretty funny that flash says HBR is a good zerg map just because it's almost 50/50! God forbid zerg have a chance .
well since TvZ favours the Terran, a 50/50 map does favour the zerg :p
Intereting way of looking at it. It's not exactly 50/50 (terran has more wins on it), but if the fundamental idea behind any rts is that either ide has an equal chance to win each outing. Noone should ever complain about a map being equal is what i'm saying.
Flash's "new style", wtf? Since when is this a "new style" that needs to be countered? This is age-old TvZ. Roaming around the center of the map, really? Holy shit, why didn't anyone think of that before? Oh wait, its been standard for ages for Terran to shut down the middle of the map. Deny the third gas, oh wait, that's been one of the two major ways T has used to attempt to dominate the matchup for ages.
Sure, there may be subtle things going on, but its still basically TvZ 1-0-fucking-1 Progamer style. Flash is just a monster at execution.
EPT
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