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From DailyeSports, 12/14/09:
DailyeSports had a discussion with Boxer about the past 10 years of eSports and its future.
Interesting excerpts (the full discussion follows):
"Honestly, nowadays fans are leaving...Even looking at ProLeague now, things are awkward for players."
"One reason that fans are leaving is that the biggest chunk of eSports, StarCraft, does not have a big market globally...I felt the limit as I won WCG twice."
"Replay is a big problem too. The retirement of old progamers was influenced by replay. Even when Nal_rA and others pulled off an interesting strategy, copying it a day or two after is possible because of replay."
"When I was practicing in ACE, an army officer took a kid to the practice room and asked me, "He's so into gaming. Please tell him to stop playing." "
"Korea has better driver experience, but China has better engine. You can't ignore China."
On the past 10 years of eSports
It's a big accomplishment to have a market this big, from nothing. In the beginning, players worked as freelancers trying to win the competition prizes. It was the time when a sense of professionalism and teamwork didn't exist. It was basically playing for fun and going on to tournaments when they came around. After that, the team system was established because practice partners and a system were necessary. Still, there was nothing but the tournament prizes. Back then team managers didn't have other revenue models and things went on like that.
Then ProLeague started and corporate-sponsored teams were established. There was salary for players who aren't necessarily good or win tournaments. It was a good period as the team system got implemented.
Honestly, nowadays fans are leaving. When the time was good we should have pulled more corporations, embraced the existing fans, and attracted new fans. Even looking at ProLeague now, things are awkward for players. It's a feeling of not perfectly modeling it as a sports. It's the positioning of a half of sports and a half of entertainment.
One reason that fans are leaving is that the biggest chunk of eSports, StarCraft, does not have a big market globally. It's popular in Korea and there are tournaments, but oversea there isn't much attention. I felt the limit as I won WCG twice. It didn't feel great even after I won the gold. Not much attention from Korean media either.
The scale is different for basketball or other sports. Fan service is different, and with cheerleaders, gifts, and events, fans are totally occupied. You can even eat in stadiums. eSports stadiums don't sell food, and there's no entertainment beside watching the game. Fans concentrate when games are exciting, but when game are boring they lose focus. eSports is emotional, so more investment in fan service is needed to grab audience's attention continuously.
Replay is a big problem too. The retirement of old progamers was influenced by replay. Even when Nal_rA and others pulled off an interesting strategy, copying it a day or two after is possible because of replay. As the old progamers went down, fans left. More effort was needed to hold them, but such effort is insufficient nowadays.
When I met the former Korean president Roh, I asked for a government support to grow eSports. But the government said that since Korea is eSports' home and it will grow on its own, let's just watch it. No special attention.
I hope that government helps it grow more. Instead of just supporting baseball, basketball, and soccer which came from abroad, I hope that the government supports the domestically-grown eSports. Instead of just growing it in Korea, I hope that those who had their foot in Korea go abroad and help develop eSports. There's no answer unless things go globally.
On StarCraft 2
I haven't played it. But I hope that it spreads globally. When StarCraft 2 comes out, or even some other game gets to be competed internationally, it might be bigger than StarCraft-oriented eSports. When PC cafes are spread, popular games get support, so when StarCraft 2 comes out and other countries open more PC cafes, people might play it more. I'm worried that even if StarCraft 2 leagues are developed, they become a Korean thing after couple years.
On the gaming culture
Society's perception on gaming is still not good. When I was practicing in ACE, an army officer took a kid to the practice room and asked me, "He's so into gaming. Please tell him to stop playing." I was in the army, but it was awkward because I was still a progamer. It's not enough for me to tell him to keep trying, but how could I tell him to stop. Parents know that it's a tough path and they know about the income distribution of progamers. It's difficult for reporter-loved progamers to come out either. Fans are diminishing too. It's a bad cycle.
On SKT T1's Chinese player
The company had expected much, but he didn't meet the expectation. Even before that, bringing in non-Korean players for Hexatron failed. Unless eSports becomes really a sports, I'm worried that we might have to buy some broadcasting rights from China. Talking about it isn't enough. Specific plan needs to be laid out. Korea has better driver experience, but China has better engine. You can't ignore China.
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Ouch boxer tells it like it is. Replays, and the era of macro robots and every one playing the same way is just not good for entertainment.
I hope that SC2 will not have a replay function 
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this is really depressing...
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I really dig his attitude. I see that he is not resting on his laurels but always going for the jugular of the world with E sports as his weapon. I love that he asked a politician about funding. He's the realist.
Glad to her him speaking the truth and not hiding it. I like how he talks about the need to com modify E sports. It wont grow otherwise.
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i hope they will add some things in to help make starcraft 1 last forever.
start selling foods and what have you..
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I find this article particularly discouraging. Props to Boxer for understanding the situation from a clear perspective. We need to fucking rally or something, spread the word! Starcraft rox and everyone needs to know!
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On December 15 2009 03:40 hiro protagonist wrote:
this is really depressing...
quite so :/
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Agreed that replays should not be allowed because it really takes away the rewards of creativity and ingenuity.
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Wow this is really interesting and a little sad
I haven't played it. But I hope that it spreads globally. When StarCraft 2 comes out, or even some other game gets to be competed internationally, it might be bigger than StarCraft-oriented eSports. When PC cafes are spread, popular games get support, so when StarCraft 2 comes out and other countries open more PC cafes, people might play it more.
That's the problem because that's not gonna happen... with everyone having DSL flatrates at home PC cafes arent doing well at all.
Even in korea itself the numbers are getting smaller.
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Down with replays in official progames! Ban Them!
This will allow the truly innovative players to shine and the era of bonjwas and legends will return! Bringing with it legions of fans!!!
I'd also like to see proleague expand out into close by asian nations.
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leomon
Canada169 Posts
Ouch, this is not good news indeed, especially if it came from the man himself.
I honestly hope that SC2 will bring people back, but imo, it's not very likely.
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Boxer is still the man :D
And there was another interview where a progamer talked about the waning interesting in starcraft even in korea.
I think part of it is because the game has more or less been figured out. What made progamers like Ra, Nada, Boxer, Reach, YellOw, and even SaviOr special was how they innovated the strategies for their race, and how they were able to make their race good on their own. Ppl like Stork, Jaedong, and Bisu are obviously miles ahead of these ppl in skill and mechanics, but a lot of that innovation is gone. There are build orders for up to like 60 pop cap, build orders to counter specific build ordersm etc etc.
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Boxer is right. Starcraft doesn't have to strategic depth (variation in decision-making) to support replays.
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Canada5565 Posts
oh man, I think I'm going to cry.
But from what I can tell the international StarCraft scene is only growing, and pretty fast, which is exactly what Boxer says needs to happen. so in that sense it's a good thing.
I agree with what he says about making the stadiums more friendly. Should have better seating for sure, food, all the stuff he said.
About StarCraft being entertainment and a sport, I don't get his meaning. Every sport is half entertainment half demonstrating skill, that's why they have spectators. Getting rid of replays, which makes sense (replays are basically sharing your strategies to the world), would definitely help. Unfortunately StarCraft 2 is going to make analyzing players' strategies even easier.
I think it would help a lot if players were allowed to do more ceremonies and chat in game, stuff like that to make it more exciting and let the fans see players' personalities.
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nice interview!
boxer such a baller talked to ex-president.
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This is a very honest, and very analytical, evaluation of the current state of E-sports. He's very right.too...
SC2 should have some sort of "protected replay" functionality. Some methods I could think of to make replays useful for instructive purposes but also not publicly dissectable is to do two things:
1.) add a layer of encryption based on the user's CD Key. A replay, by default, cannot be opened except by the players who played the game.
2.) Add the option of a "bipartite" replay, that is, a replay that heavily obscures the actions of the opponent, via non-action-based recording. In other words, your actions are stored point by point, whereas opponent's actions are stored as video. This format is technically very challenging.to implement as synchronization becomes a huge issue.
The end-goal would be to offer 3 options in the game lobby for how a game is set to be recorded: Invidividual, Both players, and Public.
Regarding gaming culture, I think improved gaming interfaces and high accessibility/demand for games are what make a game become an "Esport." Like it or not, piracy played a huge role in how Broodwar got off the ground. For example, in Crazy as Me, Boxer acknowledges that his first copy of the game was not legit, but rather just played via PC Bang. The same principle is what makes basketball/soccer so popular. You can literally play it anywhere with anybody. The ideal E-sport should be the same way... working from a freemium model to create a huge fan-base but with competitive functionality locked for paying subscribers.
I also thought it was very far-looking of Mr. Lim Yo Hwan to acknowledge the market that is China. if Esports truly becomes global-mainstream, China will be the make-or-breaking grounds.
Boxer is reaaaaalllly smart.
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Sigh... Whatever has a beginning has an end, I suppose.. But I will be here to see it happen.
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Replays do shift the emphasis away from strategy a little bit, but I am not convinced they make THAT much of a difference compared to the trend towards a more professional approach to the game. I think today, with full professional teams and coaches and casted games, any strategy would be copied fast anyway, even without replays.
Its the same as in chess or other activity: there is an early phase of creativity and crazy openings which work well for some people, who come to be regarded as geniuses; later on, as the possible combinations of openings dwindle down and people study these things more and more, the original geniuses are superseded by more through players who spend more hours preparing, memorizing various counters, openings, patterns, etc. As great as Boxer was in his prime, he would lose easily to most good players today, and its not because of replays.
This is part of why SC2 coming out is exciting: a whole new crazy "beginnings" stage is coming up, where we will once again see very creative stuff for a few years.
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The replay bashing is right but you have to see also the other side of the coin - thanks to replays the skill level development is SO MUCH higher than it would be without them.
Also - I like the china/korea analogy. As for me boxer is the most educated and inteligent (at least in sphere of starcraft business) progamer.
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United States10328 Posts
wait SKT has a chinese player? /behind
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