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Question tabout the expanding universe

Blogs > Deleted User 3420
Post a Reply
1 2 3 4 Next All
Deleted User 3420
Profile Blog Joined May 2003
24492 Posts
April 06 2009 19:43 GMT
#1
Ok so these days, everything I read about the nature of the universe says that it's expansion is accelerating. Because of this, it is said that the universe may end with everything just ripping apart.

My question is: Why do physicists or whoever think that the universe won't slow down again?




Ok, now, I would like to make sure my understanding of the big bang is correct. Obviously this is a very simple understanding of it and I may be totally wrong here but I guess that's why I am asking.

Is it correct for me to interpret the big bang as something like an infinitely small spinning point, that suddenly explodes in mass, spinning out matter/energy in all directions outward from it's center point?

I ask because if that is how the universe has been formed, then wouldn't it only be natural that some matter would be shot out farther and at a much higher rate than other matter?

Like, if the milky way was somewhat near the center, it would have shot out slowly and "quickly" began deceleration. Whereas a galaxy much farther away from us could be likely to still be accelerating, but eventually slowing down, no? Just like if you put some paint in the middle of a paper plate and spun it at an extremely high rate. What is flung out closest to the center decelerates the fastest, and what is flung out the farthest continues to accelerate longer.

Is my understanding of this incorrect anywhere?

*
Deleted User 3420
Profile Blog Joined May 2003
24492 Posts
April 06 2009 19:44 GMT
#2
lol shit how do i edit the title
Rekrul
Profile Blog Joined November 2002
Korea (South)17174 Posts
April 06 2009 19:47 GMT
#3
what tare you talking tabout
why so 진지해?
freelander
Profile Blog Joined December 2004
Hungary4707 Posts
April 06 2009 19:47 GMT
#4
cant
only mods are able to
And all is illuminated.
bludragen88
Profile Joined August 2008
United States527 Posts
April 06 2009 19:47 GMT
#5
Uhhh if the 'explosion' or big bang is the only thing propelling the galaxies outwards, then there is no force causing any of the galaxies to continue accelerating away from the center. Like, whatever force causes the Milky Way to decelerate should cause further galaxies to also decelerate, even if the effect is smaller. I think this is the surprising part of the expansion, not the fact that some things are further/started out faster.
Rekrul
Profile Blog Joined November 2002
Korea (South)17174 Posts
April 06 2009 19:48 GMT
#6
maybe the big bang is still banging and making shit go faster yo
why so 진지해?
QuanticHawk
Profile Blog Joined May 2007
United States32051 Posts
April 06 2009 19:48 GMT
#7
On April 07 2009 04:48 Rekrul wrote:
maybe the big bang is still banging and making shit go faster yo


That would be my guess. They're just anticipating on the trend continuing.
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Xeris
Profile Blog Joined July 2005
Iran17695 Posts
April 06 2009 19:49 GMT
#8
I think the theory of expanding-contracting is more popular than expanding-ripping apart? that the galaxy is expanding and at some point will reach some critical limit and then contract again, like with a rubber band; if you stretch it far enough at some point it's going to snap back to its original position (or just rip I guess)....

so I suppose:

expanding universe -> decelerating rate -> eventual contraction
expanding universe -> accelerating rate -> ripping apart

don't know which is correct (if any of them are) O_O!
twitter.com/xerislight -- follow me~~
Deleted User 3420
Profile Blog Joined May 2003
24492 Posts
April 06 2009 19:52 GMT
#9
On April 07 2009 04:47 bludragen88 wrote:
Uhhh if the 'explosion' or big bang is the only thing propelling the galaxies outwards, then there is no force causing any of the galaxies to continue accelerating away from the center. Like, whatever force causes the Milky Way to decelerate should cause further galaxies to also decelerate, even if the effect is smaller. I think this is the surprising part of the expansion, not the fact that some things are further/started out faster.


Yes and what I am saying is that it will cause them to decelerate, it just hasn't begun to yet.

Basically I don't understand why it's such a big deal to astronomers that expansion is still accelerating.

Unless my understanding is wrong and everything is accelerating, not just the points further from the "center"
Rekrul
Profile Blog Joined November 2002
Korea (South)17174 Posts
April 06 2009 19:57 GMT
#10
whats gunna rip anyways? and who cares

we'll b dead

wtf u gunna do about it when ur dead? fancy that astronomers
why so 진지해?
TanGeng
Profile Blog Joined January 2009
Sanya12364 Posts
April 06 2009 19:58 GMT
#11
There is no way to know where the center is, but astronomers seem to think that galaxies are in general spreading out faster.

Currently that means that the matter -> energy conversion is causing matter to move apart faster. The amount of energy being produced is stronger than gravity. I'm not sure what the long term trends are.

Acceleration could be decreasing. In which case there may be an eventual slow down of expansion or even a contraction. Acceleration could be increasing in which case, matter will fly apart faster than ever.
Moderator我们是个踏实的赞助商模式俱乐部
bludragen88
Profile Joined August 2008
United States527 Posts
April 06 2009 20:10 GMT
#12
On April 07 2009 04:52 travis wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 07 2009 04:47 bludragen88 wrote:
Uhhh if the 'explosion' or big bang is the only thing propelling the galaxies outwards, then there is no force causing any of the galaxies to continue accelerating away from the center. Like, whatever force causes the Milky Way to decelerate should cause further galaxies to also decelerate, even if the effect is smaller. I think this is the surprising part of the expansion, not the fact that some things are further/started out faster.


Yes and what I am saying is that it will cause them to decelerate, it just hasn't begun to yet.

Basically I don't understand why it's such a big deal to astronomers that expansion is still accelerating.

Unless my understanding is wrong and everything is accelerating, not just the points further from the "center"


I think the main problem here is that... things that are a big deal to astronomers are a big deal because they don't have a lot to be excited about, not necessarily because they're a big deal. They must do the most interpretation of the least data out of any field of science... or anything at all.

I still think the fact that the expansion is still accelerating is surprising and a big deal, because something must be propelling these fringes away from the center in order for the acceleration to increase. Even if something will cause them to decelerate, the fact that they haven't yet, and are still accelerating, is odd, even if that trend reverses itself at some point. This would also imply the whole ripping apart consequence if it continues, which would also be interesting because that implies a non-cyclic fate of our universe (no return to a single point followed by future big bang).
Zoler
Profile Blog Joined June 2008
Sweden6339 Posts
April 06 2009 20:13 GMT
#13
I'm not really pro at this subject but like moving objects in space never stop accelerating right?
Lim Yo Hwan forever!
Blunderbore
Profile Blog Joined December 2008
Lithuania23 Posts
April 06 2009 20:20 GMT
#14
it was recently discovered that different galaxies expand at different speed = small spinning point that exploded was not ideally round?
Fan of Termite Terran (Bogus)
Diomedes
Profile Joined March 2009
464 Posts
April 06 2009 20:29 GMT
#15
My question is: Why do physicists or whoever think that the universe won't slow down again?


If there is enough matter in the universe then all that matter has enough mass, causing enough gravity, to make it contract again.

Currently the universe is expanding at increasing velocity and it doesn't look like it has anywhere close to enough to start to contract.


Is it correct for me to interpret the big bang as something like an infinitely small spinning point, that suddenly explodes in mass, spinning out matter/energy in all directions outward from it's center point?


No. The universe is expanding and if you calculate back everything it came from one single point. It's not a singularity that exploded or spewed out matter. The universe isn't expanding right now because the outer shell of stars is being thrown away from the center. No, the space between the stars is increasing. Ignore the matter in the universe itself. The universe itself inflated from a single point into what it is now. During all that time a lot happened to the matter inside the universe. But that's a different issue.
IzzyCraft
Profile Blog Joined June 2007
United States4487 Posts
April 06 2009 20:29 GMT
#16
On April 07 2009 04:49 Xeris wrote:
I think the theory of expanding-contracting is more popular than expanding-ripping apart? that the galaxy is expanding and at some point will reach some critical limit and then contract again, like with a rubber band; if you stretch it far enough at some point it's going to snap back to its original position (or just rip I guess)....

so I suppose:

expanding universe -> decelerating rate -> eventual contraction
expanding universe -> accelerating rate -> ripping apart

don't know which is correct (if any of them are) O_O!

contraction is not part of an expanding universe you mean total loss of entropy or freeze over which is the consensus of how the universe will end.

Really both gives the same result total loss of entropy leads to even the 4 main powers in the universe loosing their ability to hold anything together.

speeding up leads to a state at which the 4 powers are overpowered and all matter is torn into nothingness

Really they are the same results.

Only reason why there is a theory of speed up is that dark energy is currently release its energy causing an acceleration of the expansion, it has been known for quite some time that with the creation of the universe that there is dark energy to a fineamount that will always be around it's just not until recently that it's realse of energy has been noticed.
I have ass for brains so,
even when I shit I'm droping knowledge.
vAltyR
Profile Blog Joined July 2008
United States581 Posts
April 06 2009 20:30 GMT
#17
You know what escape velocity is, right? It's the velocity an object must be travelling in order to ecape the pull of the gravity of any given mass.

We can measure the rate of expansion of the universe (if you want more details, ask), so the theory is, if the universe is expanding faster than its own escape velocity, then it will never compress back down to the original size from just before the big bang. Seems like a straightforward problem, right?

Well, that's where the whole thing with "dark matter" comes in. "Dark matter," put simply, is matter that we cannot detect by typical means. Obviously, this puts a significant hurdle in the problem of figuring out whether or not the universe will expand forever or not, because it means we cannot accurately estimate the total mass of the universe.

On April 07 2009 04:49 Xeris wrote:
I think the theory of expanding-contracting is more popular than expanding-ripping apart? that the galaxy is expanding and at some point will reach some critical limit and then contract again, like with a rubber band; if you stretch it far enough at some point it's going to snap back to its original position (or just rip I guess)....

so I suppose:

expanding universe -> decelerating rate -> eventual contraction
expanding universe -> accelerating rate -> ripping apart

don't know which is correct (if any of them are) O_O!


As I understand it (and I am by no means an expert on this subject), the bolded is correct. The reason for that is the gravity of the universe is constantly pulling inwards on itself, causing the expansion to occur at a decelerating rate. I could be wrong though.

However, whether or not the universe will contract is dependant on more than just the decelerating rate. It's also dependant on how fast the universe is expanding currently, as I mentioned above.
내 호버크라프트는 장어로 가득 차 있어요
IzzyCraft
Profile Blog Joined June 2007
United States4487 Posts
April 06 2009 20:32 GMT
#18
loss of entropy
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heat_death_of_the_universe#Temperature_of_the_universe

increase of entropy
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Big_Rip
I have ass for brains so,
even when I shit I'm droping knowledge.
Deleted User 3420
Profile Blog Joined May 2003
24492 Posts
April 06 2009 20:32 GMT
#19
On April 07 2009 05:13 Zoler wrote:
I'm not really pro at this subject but like moving objects in space never stop accelerating right?


they should, because of gravity
Deleted User 3420
Profile Blog Joined May 2003
24492 Posts
April 06 2009 20:34 GMT
#20
ok this is starting to get a little more complicated hehe
will read up when im done doin my yoga !
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