• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EST 07:12
CET 13:12
KST 21:12
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
[ASL22] Finals Preview: Sweet Victory!12[ASL22] Ro4 Preview: Mirror Mirror6[ASL22] Ro8 Preview: Within Reach5[ASL22] Ro8 Preview: In A Tizzy11[ASL22] Ro16 Preview: Holy Diver5
Community News
Dark completes military service, returns to SC211[BSL23] RO16 Group Stage19Weekly Cups (Nov 2-8): herO back on top?2Weekly Cups (Oct 26 - Nov 1): MaxPax, herO, Solar win0Weekly Cups (October 19-25): Clem triples first in 5.0.175
StarCraft 2
General
Dark completes military service, returns to SC2 Greetings.. No more SC2 streamers on team liquid? Serral's getting trashed by New Catsle's Mind Weekly Cups (Nov 2-8): herO back on top?
Tourneys
Sparkling Tuna Cup - Weekly Open Tournament Sea Duckling Open (Global, Bronze-Diamond) Dark returns! GSL CK #7 4v4 Team Battle (Nov 19) soO & FanTaSy return! SC2 Kevin Scrim 4v4 (Nov 16) RSL goes to London! 2026 Offline Finals Nov 21-22
Strategy
[H] ZvP Mid-Late Game: Stalkers Collossi HT
Custom Maps
[G] How to playtest arcade maps Starcraft 2 Advance [D] the control group Simple Questions/Answers
External Content
The PondCast: SC2 News & Results Mutation # 551 Robotic Revival Mutation # 550 Graveyard Shift Mutation # 549 Endless Sparkles
Brood War
General
Korean players' earnings Hit New All-Time High! BW General Discussion List of top players active on ShieldBattery SOOP Hosts SC1 & SC2 Event Tournament: Kevin Scrim BGH Auto Balance -> http://bghmmr.eu/
Tourneys
[$1250] International ShieldBattery League [BSL23] Ro16 Group A - Saturday 21:00 CET [Megathread] Daily Proleagues Bisu's Team vs Shuttle's Team 2026-11-14
Strategy
Pluto's TvP 5Marine 2Medic Push Simple Questions, Simple Answers Infested Terran strategies in 2026 Nuke strategy worked in K-League 2026-11-09
Other Games
General Games
Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread Nintendo Switch Thread Free Space RTS Game, optimised f. Phone/Tablet etc List of Game Threads The PlayStation 5
Dota 2
League of Legends
[TL LoL EUW IHs] Teemo shall perish
Heroes of the Storm
Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Deck construction bug
TL Mafia
TL Mafia Community Thread
Community
General
US Politics Mega-thread Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine Artificial Intelligence Thread Trading/Investing Thread European Politico-economics QA Mega-thread
Fan Clubs
Fan Club Resource Thread Reynor Fan Club The Flash Fan Club
Media & Entertainment
Movie Discussion! Anime Discussion Thread [Manga] One Piece
Sports
Football (Soccer) Thread TeamLiquid Health and Fitness Initiative For 2023 MLB/Baseball 2023
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread
TL Community
The Automated Ban List Recent Gifted Posts
Blogs
The time I organised my…
AssyrianKing
Why I built Repalyzer (1.1.…
BlueStar
Innovate or Game Over?
TrAiDoS
ShieldBattery on Mac
Kraekkling
Can Bots Beat Pros?? Starcr…
namkraft
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 12016 users

Ladder Blog #12

Blogs > neobowman
Post a Reply
neobowman
Profile Blog Joined March 2008
Canada3324 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-08-19 04:09:01
August 19 2011 04:08 GMT
#1
Suddenly, a lot of stuff happened RL. I have other stuff to do now actually.

+ Show Spoiler [ZvT] +
A general rule I follow when developing my own strategies or tactics is to look back on Brood War. From there I created my original spine crawler rush vs forge FE build (you can defend it easily if you know how but if you don't it's easy win) after remembering the proxy hatch strategy on Medusa back when the center was completely buildable. I also made my choice to switch to 15 hatch after going over Brood War strategy trends.

There's a standard set of timings in Brood War. Off of two base, one would go for a spire, using a set of 11 mutalisks to keep the Terran in his base while securing a third gas. Then, a transition into lurkers would follow, ideally just in time to defend against a push from a Terran who's stabalized against mutalisks. After that, a quick hive with a defiler transition would take the Zerg into late game.

I thought about ways to incorporate this into SC2. Brood War ZvT was largely gas heavy, without a need for many mineral units. In comparison, Zerg vs any race in SC2 is all about getting the high drone count up. While I'm not sure if cutting drones is the right way to do things, I might try to play a less drone focused style. Instead, I want to go for an early mutalisk timing to secure a third base, transitioning into burrowed banelings.

11 mutas might be a bit too few, since this is Starcraft 2. Still, I'll use time bought from that to position some burrowed banes in key locations and grab my third. The banes either force scans or kill him outright. Either way, I'll keep a zergling counterattack force positioned at his back to backstab as soon as he moves out. I'll use mutas to stop drops and use the time to tech to hive.

This is where it gets tricky. There are no defilers in SC2. I'll probably have to go directly into ultralisks. Infestors is the other option but personally, those are less of a game-ender unit and more of a mid-game option akin to mutas.

That said, I've never even tried this once in a game. Ever. So there's a fairly good chance that everything I'm saying is complete rubbish and it won't work. I'll be trying it out next chance I get.


+ Show Spoiler [ZvZ] +
I've picked up a few tricks in ZvZ and I think it might work. Before, when I watched the Nestea game, I went to sc2rep.com and searched up nestea. I used the game against ZeNEXKyrix as my baseline. Unfortunately, since that was mostly just cheese defense by Nestea, I didn't get THAT much.

Then, I watched three of the four games against Losira and I figured out a lot more.

Nestea opens up with a 10 pool in two of the games. In one of the games, Losira goes for a standard gas pool build and Nestea simply transitions like normal, making use of the quick queen to spawn larva and catch up economically. He blocks his ramp, adds a spine crawler, everything normal, and ends up winning. In the other game, Losira goes for a hatch first and Nestea goes for a ling/drone spine crawler all in, winning the game and making it look easy. I notice that he sends a drone out to scout around the 1:40 mark and only checks the natural base, heading straight back home. I'll definitely be studying the build more.

In the third, he simply goes for an early hatch and beats Losira standard. I learned most out of this replay I think, as Nestea rushes for the spire and deals with the infestors very well. The mutas allow him to take a third base super fast and with the extra minerals, he puts up spine crawlers to defend against roach busts. Also, he cuts roach production entirely after the first batch and makes zerglings, clearly to save up gas for his mutalisks.

In the 10 pool game where he transitioned into macro mode, he didn't get a lair at all. He simply abused some very nice... Something to win with roaches. I actually have no idea how he worked that one to his advantage. I'll need to check that again too.

Unfortunately, none of these games have replays, and only chinese commentated VODs. I muted because I honestly don't like listening to the chinese language that much. They'd be great for people who understand though.


+ Show Spoiler [ZvP] +
So I hear about some sort of 4/5 hatch before gas build being used in ZvP. Unfortunately, I have no idea how this goes. If someone can link me to a VOD or even better, a replay, I'd appreciate it.

So I've lost to a 6 gate even though I scouted it, (I should've countered), I beat an all-in and not much else. If I get into mid-late game, I'm golden.

I've made a modification to my 11 pool build. Instead of:

-Gas trick
-11 pool
-Gas trick
-11 overlord

I instead go:

-Gas trick
-11 pool
-10 overlord
-Gas trick

I think it gets me SLIGHTLY (I mean like 5 or 10) less minerals but my overlord pops faster (for scouting) and my larva pops faster too. Good tradeoff I think. Other than that, ZvPland is wonderful.


Including my all-time graph in this pic. I'll get the August one next entry.

[image loading]

Last time I'm putting up this poll. Once this entry stops getting views, I'll change my name.

Poll: New name

Emiya (11)
 
38%

Avalon (10)
 
34%

Caliburn (6)
 
21%

Clarent (2)
 
7%

29 total votes

Your vote: New name

(Vote): Avalon
(Vote): Caliburn
(Vote): Clarent
(Vote): Emiya



Also, PROLEAGUE FINALS BABY!

+ Show Spoiler [ Blogs #1-10] +
Blog #1
Blog #2
Blog #3
Blog #4
Blog #5
Blog #6
Blog #7
Blog #8
Blog #9
Blog #10

Blog #11

*****
micronesia
Profile Blog Joined July 2006
United States24814 Posts
August 19 2011 04:13 GMT
#2
Wth is clarent? I recognize the other three from fate stay night.
ModeratorThere are animal crackers for people and there are people crackers for animals.
neobowman
Profile Blog Joined March 2008
Canada3324 Posts
August 19 2011 04:14 GMT
#3
Clarent is the "proper" name of the sword in the stone. In FSN, Caliburn is depicted as the sword in the stone but Caliburn's actually just an alternate spelling of Excalibur.
Severus_
Profile Blog Joined October 2010
759 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-08-19 04:41:55
August 19 2011 04:39 GMT
#4
I like your thinking I try to mimic BW strats in SC2 as much as possible. Like geting +1 to kill mutas and do early stim pushesh to deny 3rd base. Trying to play mech TvP/T and trying to turtle and position myself the best possible way. I will follow your blogs. About the replays
http://sc2rep.com/replays/(Z)LiquidRet_vs_(P)nAni_shakuras_plateau_sc2rep_com_20110809/12248
Ret vs Nani on shakuras. Also watch every ret replay on blizzcon he is doing 5hatches before gas
Aphasie
Profile Blog Joined February 2010
Norway474 Posts
August 19 2011 06:21 GMT
#5
I say Caliburn, based on the most awesome Pin-ball game ever - "Crystal Caliburn". I played that so much as a child. 93' 'till infinity!
Fugue
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
Australia253 Posts
August 19 2011 07:19 GMT
#6
I say Caliburn purely out of phonetic appreciation.
Emiya doesn't have a good ring to it for me, and Clarent just sounds a little clunky. Avalon is a fien word, but the most recognisable/common.
HydraLF
Profile Blog Joined January 2011
Hong Kong626 Posts
August 19 2011 09:14 GMT
#7
Emiya because everyone will think you're a girl.
Sure.
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
WardiTV Invitational
20:00
WardiTV Not-Summer Championshi
SHIN vs RogueLIVE!
ByuN vs Solar
MaxPax vs TBD
herO vs TBD
Clem vs TBD
WardiTV806
TaKeTV 283
Rex118
Liquipedia
Sparkling Tuna Cup
19:00
Weekly #155 (PatchesSC Mod)
herO vs ShamelessLIVE!
TBD vs ByuN
ByuN337
CranKy Ducklings121
CranKy Ducklings SOOP13
LiquipediaDiscussion
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
ByuN 337
Rex 118
Codebar 44
StarCraft: Brood War
Calm 7251
Rain 1932
Shuttle 1267
BeSt 561
Light 410
Mini 307
Hyuk 290
firebathero 263
Soulkey 237
Barracks 224
[ Show more ]
actioN 199
Last 173
Zeus 125
ggaemo 121
Mind 114
Killer 109
ZerO 104
hero 86
Pusan 86
Snow 70
Hyun 56
Free 51
Sea.KH 40
910 34
ToSsGirL 29
PianO 27
Sharp 27
Aegong 23
JYJ 23
Hm[arnc] 22
soO 18
sorry 18
HiyA 17
Creator 15
yabsab 14
Sacsri 13
Mong 11
NaDa 7
scan(afreeca) 5
Dota 2
Gorgc5452
XcaliburYe170
monkeys_forever165
Counter-Strike
x6flipin287
Other Games
FrodaN2424
singsing1651
B2W.Neo302
Happy255
XaKoH 211
ToD149
KnowMe53
ZerO(Twitch)10
CosmosSc2 5
Organizations
StarCraft 2
IntoTheiNu 418
ComeBackTV 274
StarCraft: Brood War
UltimateBattle 13
[ Show 9 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• Migwel
StarCraft: Brood War
• ChaeLyn 4
• BSLYoutube
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
Upcoming Events
IPSL
4h 48m
Art_Of_Turtle vs KameZerg
Radley vs George
BSL
7h 48m
Artosis vs Dewalt
Ret vs Tech
SOOP
21h 48m
soO vs FanTaSy
WardiTV Weekly
23h 48m
Monday Night Weeklies
2 days
PiGosaur Cup
2 days
The PondCast
2 days
GSL
3 days
Replay Cast
4 days
KCM Race Survival
4 days
[ Show More ]
RSL Revival
5 days
BSL
6 days
eOnzErG vs StRyKeR
Cross vs JDConan
RSL Revival
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

Proleague 2026-11-14
Blizzard Classic Cup 2026
HCC Season 3

Ongoing

Acropolis #5
KCM Race Survival 2026 Season 4
International ShieldBattery League
BSL Season 23
IPSL Winter 2026-27
Calamity Cup Div. A Season 8
Underdog Cup 2026 Div 2-3
BLAST Rivals Fall 2026
IEM Beijing 2026
PGL Masters Bucharest 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 5
1win Private Club #2
Thunderpick World Champ. '26
ESL Pro League Season 24
Stake Ranked Episode 4
1win Private Club #1
Logitech G Play Connect 2026
SL StarSeries Fall 2026
FISSURE Playground #3
BLAST Open Fall 2026

Upcoming

YSL S4
Sector 591
SC4ALL II: Brood War
BSL 23: Non-Korean Championship
HSC XXX
Stellar Fest 2: Lunar Cup
StarCraft2 Weekly Open Tournament 2026 Grand Finals
SC4ALL II: StarCraft II
Kung Fu Cup 2026 Grand Finals
RSL Offline Finals
IEM Kraków 2027
PGL Bucharest 2027
BLAST Bounty Winter 2027
PGL Major Singapore 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 6
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2026 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.