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Yeah, she is reaching. This is similar to radical feminists frowning on Princess-Disney movies because it sets young girls up with the mentality that they need a prince to save her so she can live a proper life accompanied by a handsome young male.
In a sense, they have a point, but it is not as damning as they make it. That video is pretty bad too and sounds like contemporary bullshit of trying too hard and reading too much into the lyrics (especially about Mariah Carey, all her songs are fucking like that, rofl).
The things you should know about feminism are these three key points: - Women are not paid equal wages as men for the same job
- Women are still trapped within gender-roles and expectations
- Mother-child unit are still presumed in many countries
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1st world nations are not yet egalitarian societies, no. Gender issues still exist across the board. We still treat men and women very differently, and that has effects on a grand scale (men still having higher paying jobs, and studies have shown women have difficulty negotiating pay raises [maybe due to the fact that we still expect women to be less aggressive than men]).
That said, I'm starting to steer clear from the word feminism. It is misunderstood by those who hate feminists and those who are feminists alike. There isn't really even a single cause you can call feminism, as they get split up into many sub categories of varying principles. So yeah, you're going to find idiots who believe anything, including beliefs you also have. That's the world we live in. I didn't look at the videos but I don't doubt that the channel you're talking about isn't very academic.
edit: on reading a little more of your posts you're a complete moron tbh lol. Starting with the fact that you think girls and boys naturally prefer certain kinds of toys... That is entirely a social construct and if you don't understand something as basic as that you should not talk until you do.
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On December 22 2011 05:01 Torte de Lini wrote:Yeah, she is reaching. This is similar to radical feminists frowning on Princess-Disney movies because it sets young girls up with the mentality that they need a prince to save her so she can live a proper life accompanied by a handsome young male. In a sense, they have a point, but it is not as damning as they make it. That video is pretty bad too and sounds like contemporary bullshit of trying too hard and reading too much into the lyrics (especially about Mariah Carey, all her songs are fucking like that, rofl). The things you should know about feminism are these three key points: - Women are not paid equal wages as men for the same job
- Women are still trapped within gender-roles and expectations
- Mother-child unit are still presumed in many countries
Women are getting paid more than men in many areas today. Again, I ask, where are all the Feminists arguing to get paid less?
If by trapped you mean they are born by nature with certain characteristics with advantages and disadvantages that accompany...Well, I don't think you are going to win that fight with 'Mother' Nature :p. (Not sure what this has to do with Feminism in the first place....oh right, todays Feminism has nothing to do with the Feminism most of us probably think of)
Again, another area trying to fight against nature.
This is why many argue that Egalitarianism is a Revolt Against Nature. You ain't going to win that battle. The world ain't equal, and if it were it would be a damn dull place that I think many people would find themselves shooting themselves in the head. It's one thing to pursue an end to discrimination, it is entirely another to want discrimination to continue instead though, in your favor. Feminists ain't meritocratists I can ensure you.
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Equality is an ideal, it will never be reached. -isms are bound to continue virtually forever, as they're not meant to solve a specific problem, but to shape the world in a way that you seem fit.
Many feminists are aware that society does not necessarily submit women to men, but gives both specific and stereotypic roles. They simply disagree with the role they're given.
On December 22 2011 05:07 Wegandi wrote:
Women are getting paid more than men in many areas today. Again, I ask, where are all the Feminists arguing to get paid less?
I demand sources and precise facts. If you're taking the prostitution market as your example, the numbers are meaningless. What is interesting is the market as a whole, not just a few jobs here and there.
Furthermore, ethnology has proved that the role given to women in our society is cultural, and not natural, as different civilizations behave differently (for example, the matriarcal Naxi people in China).
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On December 22 2011 05:08 Kukaracha wrote:Equality is an ideal, it will never be reached. -isms are bound to continue virtually forever, as they're not meant to solve a specific problem, but to shape the world in a way that you seem fit. Many feminists are aware that society does not necessarily submit women to men, but gives both specific and stereotypic roles. They simply disagree with the role they're given. Show nested quote +On December 22 2011 05:07 Wegandi wrote:
Women are getting paid more than men in many areas today. Again, I ask, where are all the Feminists arguing to get paid less?
I demand sources and precise facts. If you're taking the prostitution market as your example, the numbers are meaningless. What is interesting is the market as a whole, not just a few jobs here and there. Furthermore, ethnology has proved that the role given to women in our society is cultural, and not natural, as different civilizations behave differently (for example, the matriarcal Naxi people in China).
He already posted a Time article about women being paid more.
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On December 22 2011 05:07 Wegandi wrote:Show nested quote +On December 22 2011 05:01 Torte de Lini wrote:Yeah, she is reaching. This is similar to radical feminists frowning on Princess-Disney movies because it sets young girls up with the mentality that they need a prince to save her so she can live a proper life accompanied by a handsome young male. In a sense, they have a point, but it is not as damning as they make it. That video is pretty bad too and sounds like contemporary bullshit of trying too hard and reading too much into the lyrics (especially about Mariah Carey, all her songs are fucking like that, rofl). The things you should know about feminism are these three key points: - Women are not paid equal wages as men for the same job
- Women are still trapped within gender-roles and expectations
- Mother-child unit are still presumed in many countries
Women are getting paid more than men in many areas today. Again, I ask, where are all the Feminists arguing to get paid less? If by trapped you mean they are born by nature with certain characteristics with advantages and disadvantages that accompany...Well, I don't think you are going to win that fight with 'Mother' Nature :p. (Not sure what this has to do with Feminism in the first place....oh right, todays Feminism has nothing to do with the Feminism most of us probably think of) Again, another area trying to fight against nature. This is why many argue that Egalitarianism is a Revolt Against Nature. You ain't going to win that battle. The world ain't equal, and if it were it would be a damn dull place that I think many people would find themselves shooting themselves in the head. It's one thing to pursue an end to discrimination, it is entirely another to want discrimination to continue instead though, in your favor. Feminists ain't meritocratists I can ensure you.
Where are men getting paid less than women. You must be confused unless the gender has a specific utility to the job.
http://www.unpac.ca/economy/wagegap3.html
Here are some stats and examples of jobs where women are paid 70.4% (could be more now) to the men's dollar.
If by trapped you mean they are born by nature with certain characteristics with advantages and disadvantages that accompany...Well, I don't think you are going to win that fight with 'Mother' Nature :p. (Not sure what this has to do with Feminism in the first place....oh right, todays Feminism has nothing to do with the Feminism most of us probably think of)
No, feminism has a lot to do with what people think of, they just take it on peg too far. I mean trapped by the ideas they are often obliged to take care of the kids, be the homemaker and are pressured by the expectancy of the gender divide in work. You think everyone has equal opportunity to work and become an independent breadwinner, but you are sorely mistaken even in Westernized countries.
This is why many argue that Egalitarianism is a Revolt Against Nature. You ain't going to win that battle. The world ain't equal, and if it were it would be a damn dull place that I think many people would find themselves shooting themselves in the head. It's one thing to pursue an end to discrimination, it is entirely another to want discrimination to continue instead though, in your favor. Feminists ain't meritocratists I can ensure you What's it like being completely delusional? Do you say the same thing about homosexuals wanting equal rights?
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On December 22 2011 05:08 Kukaracha wrote:Equality is an ideal, it will never be reached. -isms are bound to continue virtually forever, as they're not meant to solve a specific problem, but to shape the world in a way that you seem fit. Many feminists are aware that society does not necessarily submit women to men, but gives both specific and stereotypic roles. They simply disagree with the role they're given. Show nested quote +On December 22 2011 05:07 Wegandi wrote:
Women are getting paid more than men in many areas today. Again, I ask, where are all the Feminists arguing to get paid less?
I demand sources and precise facts. If you're taking the prostitution market as your example, the numbers are meaningless. What is interesting is the market as a whole, not just a few jobs here and there.
How about you read my earlier posts and get up to date?
http://www.time.com/time/business/article/0,8599,2015274,00.html
Further, MEN have higher unemployment than women. Say it seems like Men are getting paid less more and more often, and, are having a tougher time finding a job. Sounds like there needs to be a dudeism movement for equality, right? Or that Feminists need to start evangelizing to decrease their pay and increase mens, and their employment opportunities. So, then you have Feminists making the case for Men...so are they still FEMinists? Modern Feminism has nothing to do with equality.
There is no reason for a feminist movement today. Their goals were all ready achieved. These organizations are rackets; having all ready achieved what they set out, they then have to find new 'things' to keep their coffers filled. It's like the NAACP. Very important organization for a great many years, but what they were originally fought for has all ready been achieved. There's no reason for the NAACP to exist today, and same for Feminism. They're both rackets.
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On December 22 2011 04:59 Wegandi wrote:Show nested quote +On December 22 2011 04:49 ComaDose wrote:On December 22 2011 04:47 Wegandi wrote:On December 22 2011 04:42 ComaDose wrote:...does feminism even exist anymore in 1st world countries?... This hurt me so much. So many of the replies hurt me so much. Some of the people who have posted so far in this thread need help beyond reading a comment. Anyone who believes women are treated equally with men anywhere in the world are mistaken. Anyone who can say feminist or feminism with a negative connotation is ignorant. Feminists are not against strippers, they are for them.The woman who made the youtube videos is obviously stupid but a stupid youtube video does not warrant a thread bashing a movement for equality. If you want to start a topic on feminism I think you should know more than what a stupid person told you on a youtube video. Please close this thread its spreading ignorance and its painful to observe. Sorry, it was Iceland not Sweden. http://www.guardian.co.uk/lifeandstyle/2010/mar/25/iceland-most-feminist-countryReally? I all ready posted a piece by Time that a great deal of women are getting paid 10%+ than their male counterparts. Since you argue for equality surely you are in favor of reducing their wages by 10% so they are equal with their male counterparts right? Yes closing down the sex industry is ironically sexist. And about the wages. I believe the better performing employee should be paid more. And women should be given as much chance as men to demonstrate how they perform the job. Then that is not equality that is meritocracy. Feminism today has nothing to do with the movement created by figures like Susan B. Anthony. So why the outcry ex-post of wage disparities when females were on general making less? If it was based on discrimination then the goal would be to end the discrimination, and not necessarily some vague 'equality', right? It was never about ending the discrimination, but reversing it towards a favorable genesis to women and a punishment of men. I've met quite a few Feminists with such putred hatred of men....I'm sure we've all met them. You can't keep throwing around No True Scotsman fallacies, that all these Feminists are not Feminists because they don't hold to what you view as a Feminist is. I think a lot of men would be shocked by the views of the modern-day Feminists, and I think a great deal of men are very supportive of the old-Feminist ideals and movement of equality of Law, and of Suffrage.
Please explain the difference between ending discrimination and having equal rights.
Are you claiming that sexism does not exist in the united states?
Are you claiming that feminists (as a collective group of people) are trying to put women in a dominant position in society?
Please don't answer with "I've met quite a few who have..."
I will try and explain to you what feminism is but from where your point of view is at right now... it will be a long conversation. If you answer those questions I guess I'll be able to see where to start.
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On December 22 2011 04:32 Wegandi wrote:Show nested quote +On December 22 2011 04:01 tehemperorer wrote:On December 22 2011 03:48 ranshaked wrote:On December 22 2011 03:46 Zorkmid wrote:
I wouldn't paint feminism with this broad of a brush. Feminism is about equality, some "extreme" feminists hijack it into shit like this, but don't lump it all together.
I am, and we should all be feminists. Personally, I feel that we've reached equality, and if we continue, then it'll end up with men on the other end of the stick. I can't find a job as a bartender at most places because i'm not a pretty girl for instance. That's not equal! We're very far from equal dude. Your feeling is definitely not close to actuality, just look up any statistic dealing with this. You can choose, say, pay rate for men and women given the same job title, length of time it takes for women to get promotion vs. men... number of women in upper echelons of government compared to lower levels of government... http://www.time.com/time/business/article/0,8599,2015274,00.htmlReally? You must be stuck in the 1950s. Further, the unemployment rate for men is much higher than it is for women. Is there going to be a ... Dudeism movement? Payment should not be either equal, or based on a persons gender, but on a persons productivity & merit. Why should a woman who outputs half the work (hypothetical) get paid the same as her male co-worker just because she is a woman? Equality of Law is the only equality that is logical, moral, and adheres to principles of liberty.
Did you even read that article, or did you post it due to its title? It states that women who are young, single, and childless are up 8% against their peers. However, as they get older things fall back into the normal trends. Yes, it is an improvement, but there is still a lot of inequality.
Also, yes the the unemployment rate is higher for men, but that also has a lot to do with how the unemployment rate is determined. The unemployment rate consists of people who are actually looking for work and jobless. Women might be more likely to stop looking for work since for hundreds of years it has been considered to be okay to not work and to take care of the house and children. Lastly, the recession will force businesses to lay off and they will lay off the higher paid workers. In most cases, this is the men.
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On December 22 2011 05:16 Wegandi wrote:
Further, MEN have higher unemployment than women.
This is somewhat structural, actually.
Women on average are more willing to work part-time and casual labour, and that is unfortunately what is not getting cut as much in this economy. Also womens' labour force participation rate is lower.
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8751 Posts
On December 22 2011 04:43 Wegandi wrote:Show nested quote +On December 22 2011 03:55 Liquid`Tyler wrote:yeah this is a really really bad way to learn about feminism. like in most things, there are a lot of people with a really low understanding:enthusiasm ratio in the feminism movement On December 22 2011 03:54 corumjhaelen wrote:On December 22 2011 03:42 ranshaked wrote:
Of course they are! Most girls want dolls, while boys want toy guns. Quit trying to break a standard.
That's something I strongly disagree with. yeah me too. contrived gender roles are a serious problem that limit options and sometimes force people to act in a way that doesn't make them the happiest. it starts with shit like toys assigned for only one gender On a great deal of areas I agree that an individual should pursue their interests and that those around them should support them insofar as it doesn't do great bodily or mental harm to them (gentle persuasion out of say...doing meth would be ideal), however, to say that gender roles are contrived is to dismiss nature. Men and women are not built either physically or mentally, the same. There is a physiological and biological reason that Men and Women generally have different tastes in a wide ranging amount of activities and interests. Further, many things require different attributes to perform well. You aren't going to see many male ballet dancers for instance because men lack both the finesse and dexterity of their female counterparts (sure, there are exceptions...), and you won't find many females out there jack hammering away at cement or other strenuous physical work. You cannot fight against Nature and win. Sorry that biological and physiological realities constrict people down certain paths (you can however surely go against the grain if you want, but not sure you'll find much success or happiness).
First, you don't know the difference between gender and sex. Look it up before you continue posting in a thread about feminism.
Now to your response, you seem to be supposing absolute equality. Equality in every possible way is not the goal. Equal opportunity and equal reward based on performance are closer to the goal. While gender roles are not completely arbitrary, they are still significantly arbitrary. When the differences in the sexes of children have been studied, we've learned that there's more variation within the sexes (difference between one male and another male, or one female and another female) than there is between the sexes (difference between one male and one female). So if you take two people, blind to their sex, and do some personality tests and observe extremely different results, it isn't very much more likely that they're different sexes than they're the same sex. The sexes are mostly overlapping. The difference between male and female is much smaller than the difference between a boy on one extreme and a boy on the other extreme.
Gender roles fuck that up. They're very black and white (non-overlapping) and they're very psychologically powerful. So when we study the difference in the sexes with people who have been affected by gender roles, we get way different results. People don't behave how they naturally would. They repress some things and exaggerate or fake other things. Their interests are forced by what the world says is okay or not okay for their sex to do, despite what they're good at or not good at.
So the point is that everyone is okay with the extent that nature limits our abilities because we know those limits are actually really small. Gender roles are overwhelmingly contrived and all that shit should probably go.
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On December 22 2011 05:14 Torte de Lini wrote:Show nested quote +On December 22 2011 05:07 Wegandi wrote:On December 22 2011 05:01 Torte de Lini wrote:Yeah, she is reaching. This is similar to radical feminists frowning on Princess-Disney movies because it sets young girls up with the mentality that they need a prince to save her so she can live a proper life accompanied by a handsome young male. In a sense, they have a point, but it is not as damning as they make it. That video is pretty bad too and sounds like contemporary bullshit of trying too hard and reading too much into the lyrics (especially about Mariah Carey, all her songs are fucking like that, rofl). The things you should know about feminism are these three key points: - Women are not paid equal wages as men for the same job
- Women are still trapped within gender-roles and expectations
- Mother-child unit are still presumed in many countries
Women are getting paid more than men in many areas today. Again, I ask, where are all the Feminists arguing to get paid less? If by trapped you mean they are born by nature with certain characteristics with advantages and disadvantages that accompany...Well, I don't think you are going to win that fight with 'Mother' Nature :p. (Not sure what this has to do with Feminism in the first place....oh right, todays Feminism has nothing to do with the Feminism most of us probably think of) Again, another area trying to fight against nature. This is why many argue that Egalitarianism is a Revolt Against Nature. You ain't going to win that battle. The world ain't equal, and if it were it would be a damn dull place that I think many people would find themselves shooting themselves in the head. It's one thing to pursue an end to discrimination, it is entirely another to want discrimination to continue instead though, in your favor. Feminists ain't meritocratists I can ensure you. Where are men getting paid less than women. You must be confused unless the gender has a specific utility to the job. http://www.unpac.ca/economy/wagegap3.htmlHere are some stats and examples of jobs where women are paid 70.4% (could be more now) to the men's dollar. Show nested quote +If by trapped you mean they are born by nature with certain characteristics with advantages and disadvantages that accompany...Well, I don't think you are going to win that fight with 'Mother' Nature :p. (Not sure what this has to do with Feminism in the first place....oh right, todays Feminism has nothing to do with the Feminism most of us probably think of) No, feminism has a lot to do with what people think of, they just take it on peg too far. I mean trapped by the ideas they are often obliged to take care of the kids, be the homemaker and are pressured by the expectancy of the gender divide in work. You think everyone has equal opportunity to work and become an independent breadwinner, but you are sorely mistaken even in Westernized countries. Show nested quote +This is why many argue that Egalitarianism is a Revolt Against Nature. You ain't going to win that battle. The world ain't equal, and if it were it would be a damn dull place that I think many people would find themselves shooting themselves in the head. It's one thing to pursue an end to discrimination, it is entirely another to want discrimination to continue instead though, in your favor. Feminists ain't meritocratists I can ensure you What's it like being completely delusional? Do you say the same thing about homosexuals wanting equal rights? something is wrong with this statement:
Bartenders 8,495 7,080 $14,940 $18,899
women do not make less than men as bartenders lol o.0
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8751 Posts
On December 22 2011 05:20 bonifaceviii wrote:Show nested quote +On December 22 2011 05:16 Wegandi wrote:
Further, MEN have higher unemployment than women. This is somewhat structural, actually. Women on average are more willing to work part-time and casual labour, and that is unfortunately what is not getting cut as much in this economy. Also womens' labour force participation rate is lower.
yep and they are recession figures and the recession has had a greater negative effect on men's jobs than women's. explanations can go on and on and on about what these figures mean. it's absolutely ridiculous for someone to suggest a figure like that means that sexism is ending and feminism has accomplished its purpose
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On December 22 2011 05:16 Wegandi wrote:Show nested quote +On December 22 2011 05:08 Kukaracha wrote:Equality is an ideal, it will never be reached. -isms are bound to continue virtually forever, as they're not meant to solve a specific problem, but to shape the world in a way that you seem fit. Many feminists are aware that society does not necessarily submit women to men, but gives both specific and stereotypic roles. They simply disagree with the role they're given. On December 22 2011 05:07 Wegandi wrote:
Women are getting paid more than men in many areas today. Again, I ask, where are all the Feminists arguing to get paid less?
I demand sources and precise facts. If you're taking the prostitution market as your example, the numbers are meaningless. What is interesting is the market as a whole, not just a few jobs here and there. How about you read my earlier posts and get up to date? http://www.time.com/time/business/article/0,8599,2015274,00.htmlFurther, MEN have higher unemployment than women. Say it seems like Men are getting paid less more and more often, and, are having a tougher time finding a job. Sounds like there needs to be a dudeism movement for equality, right? Or that Feminists need to start evangelizing to decrease their pay and increase mens, and their employment opportunities. So, then you have Feminists making the case for Men...so are they still FEMinists? Modern Feminism has nothing to do with equality. There is no reason for a feminist movement today. Their goals were all ready achieved. These organizations are rackets; having all ready achieved what they set out, they then have to find new 'things' to keep their coffers filled. It's like the NAACP. Very important organization for a great many years, but what they were originally fought for has all ready been achieved. There's no reason for the NAACP to exist today, and same for Feminism. They're both rackets.
Modern feminism has everything to do with equality, what you are confusing is that equality is not a comparative notion, but just a separate entity. Women don't want to be just like men or similar to men or be paid like men. They want equal pay, rights and opportunities as people. We're not comparing a woman with a man, we're comparing a human with another gendered human who deserves the same. Just because you want the same level of equalities as another gender doesn't mean you want to be that gender nor behold traits that makes that gender at the top.
As stated before and I can't stress this point enough, feminists want equality as people. Their issues are only towards females in addition (beyond equal pay, gender roles and stereotypes are still an issue directly concerning females).
On December 22 2011 05:24 Liquid`Tyler wrote:Show nested quote +On December 22 2011 05:20 bonifaceviii wrote:On December 22 2011 05:16 Wegandi wrote:
Further, MEN have higher unemployment than women. This is somewhat structural, actually. Women on average are more willing to work part-time and casual labour, and that is unfortunately what is not getting cut as much in this economy. Also womens' labour force participation rate is lower. yep and they are recession figures and the recession has had a greater negative effect on men's jobs than women's. explanations can go on and on and on about what these figures mean. it's absolutely ridiculous for someone to suggest a figure like that means that sexism is ending and feminism has accomplished its purpose
Winner!
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On December 22 2011 05:22 ranshaked wrote:Show nested quote +On December 22 2011 05:14 Torte de Lini wrote:On December 22 2011 05:07 Wegandi wrote:On December 22 2011 05:01 Torte de Lini wrote:Yeah, she is reaching. This is similar to radical feminists frowning on Princess-Disney movies because it sets young girls up with the mentality that they need a prince to save her so she can live a proper life accompanied by a handsome young male. In a sense, they have a point, but it is not as damning as they make it. That video is pretty bad too and sounds like contemporary bullshit of trying too hard and reading too much into the lyrics (especially about Mariah Carey, all her songs are fucking like that, rofl). The things you should know about feminism are these three key points: - Women are not paid equal wages as men for the same job
- Women are still trapped within gender-roles and expectations
- Mother-child unit are still presumed in many countries
Women are getting paid more than men in many areas today. Again, I ask, where are all the Feminists arguing to get paid less? If by trapped you mean they are born by nature with certain characteristics with advantages and disadvantages that accompany...Well, I don't think you are going to win that fight with 'Mother' Nature :p. (Not sure what this has to do with Feminism in the first place....oh right, todays Feminism has nothing to do with the Feminism most of us probably think of) Again, another area trying to fight against nature. This is why many argue that Egalitarianism is a Revolt Against Nature. You ain't going to win that battle. The world ain't equal, and if it were it would be a damn dull place that I think many people would find themselves shooting themselves in the head. It's one thing to pursue an end to discrimination, it is entirely another to want discrimination to continue instead though, in your favor. Feminists ain't meritocratists I can ensure you. Where are men getting paid less than women. You must be confused unless the gender has a specific utility to the job. http://www.unpac.ca/economy/wagegap3.htmlHere are some stats and examples of jobs where women are paid 70.4% (could be more now) to the men's dollar. If by trapped you mean they are born by nature with certain characteristics with advantages and disadvantages that accompany...Well, I don't think you are going to win that fight with 'Mother' Nature :p. (Not sure what this has to do with Feminism in the first place....oh right, todays Feminism has nothing to do with the Feminism most of us probably think of) No, feminism has a lot to do with what people think of, they just take it on peg too far. I mean trapped by the ideas they are often obliged to take care of the kids, be the homemaker and are pressured by the expectancy of the gender divide in work. You think everyone has equal opportunity to work and become an independent breadwinner, but you are sorely mistaken even in Westernized countries. This is why many argue that Egalitarianism is a Revolt Against Nature. You ain't going to win that battle. The world ain't equal, and if it were it would be a damn dull place that I think many people would find themselves shooting themselves in the head. It's one thing to pursue an end to discrimination, it is entirely another to want discrimination to continue instead though, in your favor. Feminists ain't meritocratists I can ensure you What's it like being completely delusional? Do you say the same thing about homosexuals wanting equal rights? something is wrong with this statement: Bartenders 8,495 7,080 $14,940 $18,899 women do not make less than men as bartenders lol o.0
Good Cherry-picking! Go make a pie!
Tips are not counted.
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Okay, so taking a look at your link:
Here's the slightly deflating caveat: this reverse gender gap, as it's known, applies only to unmarried, childless women under 30 who live in cities.
He attributes the earnings reversal overwhelmingly to one factor: education. For every two guys who graduate from college or get a higher degree, three women do.
Is the employment ration 2:3 for women? No? Then does it mean they study more to achieve roughly the same status?
And, again, as I said earlier: -isms (feminism, liberalism) never "achieve their goals" as the ultimate goal is to shape the world in a certain way, and the world will never satisfy any ideal. You also forget that there are many forms of feminism which sometimes disagree with each other, and as long as there is a disagreement, there is room for debate and evolution.
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On December 22 2011 05:25 Kukaracha wrote:Okay, so taking a look at your link: Show nested quote +Here's the slightly deflating caveat: this reverse gender gap, as it's known, applies only to unmarried, childless women under 30 who live in cities. Show nested quote +He attributes the earnings reversal overwhelmingly to one factor: education. For every two guys who graduate from college or get a higher degree, three women do.
Is the employment ration 2:3 for women? No? Then does it mean they study more to achieve roughly the same status?
And, again, as I said earlier: -isms (feminism, liberalism) never "achieve their goals" as the ultimate goal is to shape the world in a certain way, and the world will never satisfy any ideal. You also forget that there are many forms of feminism which sometimes disagree with each other, and as long as there is a disagreement, there is room for debate and evolution.
You can go home with your philosophical neutrality. Variations of feminists don't disagree with each other on a whole, they disagree with their methods to reach common-agreed goals and views of the world.
-__________-;; Why are you fighting something that has no inherent malicious traits?
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On December 22 2011 05:14 Torte de Lini wrote:Show nested quote +On December 22 2011 05:07 Wegandi wrote:On December 22 2011 05:01 Torte de Lini wrote:Yeah, she is reaching. This is similar to radical feminists frowning on Princess-Disney movies because it sets young girls up with the mentality that they need a prince to save her so she can live a proper life accompanied by a handsome young male. In a sense, they have a point, but it is not as damning as they make it. That video is pretty bad too and sounds like contemporary bullshit of trying too hard and reading too much into the lyrics (especially about Mariah Carey, all her songs are fucking like that, rofl). The things you should know about feminism are these three key points: - Women are not paid equal wages as men for the same job
- Women are still trapped within gender-roles and expectations
- Mother-child unit are still presumed in many countries
Women are getting paid more than men in many areas today. Again, I ask, where are all the Feminists arguing to get paid less? If by trapped you mean they are born by nature with certain characteristics with advantages and disadvantages that accompany...Well, I don't think you are going to win that fight with 'Mother' Nature :p. (Not sure what this has to do with Feminism in the first place....oh right, todays Feminism has nothing to do with the Feminism most of us probably think of) Again, another area trying to fight against nature. This is why many argue that Egalitarianism is a Revolt Against Nature. You ain't going to win that battle. The world ain't equal, and if it were it would be a damn dull place that I think many people would find themselves shooting themselves in the head. It's one thing to pursue an end to discrimination, it is entirely another to want discrimination to continue instead though, in your favor. Feminists ain't meritocratists I can ensure you. Where are men getting paid less than women. You must be confused unless the gender has a specific utility to the job. http://www.unpac.ca/economy/wagegap3.htmlHere are some stats and examples of jobs where women are paid 70.4% (could be more now) to the men's dollar. Show nested quote +If by trapped you mean they are born by nature with certain characteristics with advantages and disadvantages that accompany...Well, I don't think you are going to win that fight with 'Mother' Nature :p. (Not sure what this has to do with Feminism in the first place....oh right, todays Feminism has nothing to do with the Feminism most of us probably think of) No, feminism has a lot to do with what people think of, they just take it on peg too far. I mean trapped by the ideas they are often obliged to take care of the kids, be the homemaker and are pressured by the expectancy of the gender divide in work. You think everyone has equal opportunity to work and become an independent breadwinner, but you are sorely mistaken even in Westernized countries. Show nested quote +This is why many argue that Egalitarianism is a Revolt Against Nature. You ain't going to win that battle. The world ain't equal, and if it were it would be a damn dull place that I think many people would find themselves shooting themselves in the head. It's one thing to pursue an end to discrimination, it is entirely another to want discrimination to continue instead though, in your favor. Feminists ain't meritocratists I can ensure you What's it like being completely delusional? Do you say the same thing about homosexuals wanting equal rights?
I don't group people. Homosexuals have no special rights, nor do any other group. There is only individual rights, and that is very much an ideal predicated on the equal liberties of one to another. If you are talking about Marriage, I do not support State involvement whatsoever. It should be a personal, religious, and contractual matter. A Church should not be compelled against their will to accept a homosexual marriage, nor should the State prevent two parties to coming to a contractual agreement for all the things we associate with the legal entity Marriage (Next of Kin, PoA, Shared Bank Accounts, etc.).
But that isn't what Feminism is about. It isn't about Suffrage, or Equality of Law (liberty). It's about stupid cultural shit about an egalitarian society where there should be an equal number of males and females and of pay in every industry and every sector regardless of the INDIVIDUALS interests, wants, needs, and desires. It's a totalitarian movement. This is why you see places like Iceland banning the individual woman's choice to pursue a job stripping, or of porn / prostitution. Further, when the evidence points to them getting paid more on average than their male counterparts in a great deal many areas (which is increasing every year), you hear not a PEEP about that women should be getting paid less and should be equal with their male counterparts.
You are under some false impression from waydays of Susan B. Anthony and Suffrage movement that Feminism is about equality of liberty/Law. It used to be. Hasn't been the case since the 1950s/60s.
Perhaps you should take your egalitarian nightmare and go become a borg. Everyone is equal in the Borg. There is no individual. There is the collective and they are all the same. Let me know how long you find yourself living in that environment before you go insane (not to mention the stupendous amount of violence and force you would need to compel and make people behave, believe, and act in such a manner to create such a society). Human beings are not equal. We are all born with INDIVIDUAL characteristics completely unique to ourselves. Why are you so biased against uniqueness? Why are you so fascinated by a totalitarian egalitarian doctrine? By nature we are not egalitarian, therefore to fight against nature requires violence, force, and compulsion. Human beings are not a borg.
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feww... torte and tyler saving the thread.
Another fact of society that refutes the point you were trying to make with that time article that didn't actually make your point (inhale) is that the glass ceiling still exists. only about 16% of CEOs in the top 1000 companies are women. source
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On December 22 2011 05:29 Wegandi wrote:Show nested quote +On December 22 2011 05:14 Torte de Lini wrote:On December 22 2011 05:07 Wegandi wrote:On December 22 2011 05:01 Torte de Lini wrote:Yeah, she is reaching. This is similar to radical feminists frowning on Princess-Disney movies because it sets young girls up with the mentality that they need a prince to save her so she can live a proper life accompanied by a handsome young male. In a sense, they have a point, but it is not as damning as they make it. That video is pretty bad too and sounds like contemporary bullshit of trying too hard and reading too much into the lyrics (especially about Mariah Carey, all her songs are fucking like that, rofl). The things you should know about feminism are these three key points: - Women are not paid equal wages as men for the same job
- Women are still trapped within gender-roles and expectations
- Mother-child unit are still presumed in many countries
Women are getting paid more than men in many areas today. Again, I ask, where are all the Feminists arguing to get paid less? If by trapped you mean they are born by nature with certain characteristics with advantages and disadvantages that accompany...Well, I don't think you are going to win that fight with 'Mother' Nature :p. (Not sure what this has to do with Feminism in the first place....oh right, todays Feminism has nothing to do with the Feminism most of us probably think of) Again, another area trying to fight against nature. This is why many argue that Egalitarianism is a Revolt Against Nature. You ain't going to win that battle. The world ain't equal, and if it were it would be a damn dull place that I think many people would find themselves shooting themselves in the head. It's one thing to pursue an end to discrimination, it is entirely another to want discrimination to continue instead though, in your favor. Feminists ain't meritocratists I can ensure you. Where are men getting paid less than women. You must be confused unless the gender has a specific utility to the job. http://www.unpac.ca/economy/wagegap3.htmlHere are some stats and examples of jobs where women are paid 70.4% (could be more now) to the men's dollar. If by trapped you mean they are born by nature with certain characteristics with advantages and disadvantages that accompany...Well, I don't think you are going to win that fight with 'Mother' Nature :p. (Not sure what this has to do with Feminism in the first place....oh right, todays Feminism has nothing to do with the Feminism most of us probably think of) No, feminism has a lot to do with what people think of, they just take it on peg too far. I mean trapped by the ideas they are often obliged to take care of the kids, be the homemaker and are pressured by the expectancy of the gender divide in work. You think everyone has equal opportunity to work and become an independent breadwinner, but you are sorely mistaken even in Westernized countries. This is why many argue that Egalitarianism is a Revolt Against Nature. You ain't going to win that battle. The world ain't equal, and if it were it would be a damn dull place that I think many people would find themselves shooting themselves in the head. It's one thing to pursue an end to discrimination, it is entirely another to want discrimination to continue instead though, in your favor. Feminists ain't meritocratists I can ensure you What's it like being completely delusional? Do you say the same thing about homosexuals wanting equal rights? I don't group people. Homosexuals have no special rights, nor do any other group. There is only individual rights, and that is very much an ideal predicated on the equal liberties of one to another. If you are talking about Marriage, I do not support State involvement whatsoever. It should be a personal, religious, and contractual matter. A Church should not be compelled against their will to accept a homosexual marriage, nor should the State prevent two parties to coming to a contractual agreement for all the things we associate with the legal entity Marriage (Next of Kin, PoA, Shared Bank Accounts, etc.). But that isn't what Feminism is about. It isn't about Suffrage, or Equality of Law (liberty). It's about stupid cultural shit about an egalitarian society where there should be an equal number of males and females and of pay in every industry and every sector regardless of the INDIVIDUALS interests, wants, needs, and desires. It's a totalitarian movement. This is why you see places like Iceland banning the individual woman's choice to pursue a job stripping, or of porn / prostitution. Further, when the evidence points to them getting paid more on average than their male counterparts in a great deal many areas (which is increasing every year), you hear not a PEEP about that women should be getting paid less and should be equal with their male counterparts. You are under some false impression from waydays of Susan B. Anthony and Suffrage movement that Feminism is about equality of liberty/Law. It used to be. Hasn't been the case since the 1950s/60s. Perhaps you should take your egalitarian nightmare and go become a borg. Everyone is equal in the Borg. There is no individual. There is the collective and they are all the same. Let me know how long you find yourself living in that environment before you go insane (not to mention the stupendous amount of violence and force you would need to compel and make people behave, believe, and act in such a manner to create such a society). Human beings are not equal. We are all born with INDIVIDUAL characteristics completely unique to ourselves. Why are you so biased against uniqueness? Why are you so fascinated by a totalitarian egalitarian doctrine? By nature we are not egalitarian, therefore to fight against nature requires violence, force, and compulsion. Human beings are not a borg.
Holy shit, you wrote a lot about nothing.
No, see. As a society and cultural diversity, there are groups and they are roped in by various traits or issues. That's why something becomes a Social problem and not a individual concern. You don't group people because it's easier to ignore an issue when it's an anecdotal one. When it's a globalized concern, then it's harder to ignore. Go you!
You're deeply confused about the institution of the Church. Dare I even talk about it or will you sweep your hand in one go and dismiss it under bullshit philosophies that have no real tangible meanings in westernized and diverse culture.
But that isn't what Feminism is about. It isn't about Suffrage, or Equality of Law (liberty). It's about stupid cultural shit about an egalitarian society where there should be an equal number of males and females and of pay in every industry and every sector regardless of the INDIVIDUALS interests, wants, needs, and desires. It's a totalitarian movement. This is why you see places like Iceland banning the individual woman's choice to pursue a job stripping, or of porn / prostitution. Further, when the evidence points to them getting paid more on average than their male counterparts in a great deal many areas (which is increasing every year), you hear not a PEEP about that women should be getting paid less and should be equal with their male counterparts.
You're confused again. Equal opportunities doesn't mean equal jobs or careers split for each party. There should be equal opportunities for all based on their credentials and not being swayed by the increment of one's gender (and this goes for restaurants hiring attractive waitresses to attract more visitors, though they can pass this by claiming it's a business move, unfortunately). I just showed you evidence on a national scale that women are getting paid significantly less. Your article is a magazine, mine is a bit more... statically accurate and accepted.
Like I said, it's not a comparative movement, it's an equality one. They're not looking to be paid like men, they're looking to be paid or have the opportunity to be paid as the next person male or female (which they're not). See Tyler's explanation as well please.
You're a complete and utter fool.
User was warned for this post
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EPT
