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ranshaked
United States870 Posts
On December 22 2011 03:57 Tamburlaine wrote: I'm sensing some cognitive biases up ins. Nice try with the edit. I deleted it because it had nothing to do with my original topic, and I realized I didn't want to bring racism or anything else into the conversation. No need to pursue it any further. | ||
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mordk
Chile8385 Posts
Am I a feminist? Sounds a bit weird to me. The word "feminism" sounds like positive discrimination in regards to men, which isn't something that sounds desirable imo. There shouldn't be any discrimination based on gender, be it positive or negative. | ||
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quirl
Austria19 Posts
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bonifaceviii
Canada2890 Posts
On December 22 2011 04:04 mordk wrote: So.. I think males and females have (or should have) equal rights in everything, and the possibility to do whatever they want. Am I a feminist? Sounds a bit weird to me. The word "feminism" sounds like positive discrimination in regards to men, which isn't something that sounds desirable imo. There shouldn't be any discrimination based on gender, be it positive or negative. There are a million and a half definitions of "feminism", but a generally good one to use is that it's a form of sociological and historical critique which focuses on the effects of power disparity between privileged and under-privileged groups. That's why you'll see a lot of "This is what a feminist looks like" shirts on men in university campuses and at protests of various kinds. | ||
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GnarlyArbitrage
575 Posts
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bonifaceviii
Canada2890 Posts
On December 22 2011 04:26 DigiGnar wrote: I remember there was some "feminist" movement happening in the States (sometime this year), where women would walk around in lingerie pretty much, but get pissed off when a guy whistled at them. I want to find the article, but pretty much, if you're going to dress sexy, expect to be thought of as sexy. If you were a shirt showing your cleavage, expect guys to look. Not exactly. Feel free to read the thread about it, though, it interestingly includes a guy getting banned for being a rapist! | ||
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Wegandi
United States2455 Posts
On December 22 2011 04:01 tehemperorer wrote: We're very far from equal dude. Your feeling is definitely not close to actuality, just look up any statistic dealing with this. You can choose, say, pay rate for men and women given the same job title, length of time it takes for women to get promotion vs. men... number of women in upper echelons of government compared to lower levels of government... http://www.time.com/time/business/article/0,8599,2015274,00.html Really? You must be stuck in the 1950s. Further, the unemployment rate for men is much higher than it is for women. Is there going to be a ... Dudeism movement? Payment should not be either equal, or based on a persons gender, but on a persons productivity & merit. Why should a woman who outputs half the work (hypothetical) get paid the same as her male co-worker just because she is a woman? Equality of Law is the only equality that is logical, moral, and adheres to principles of liberty. Honestly if it was about equality then why do Feminists in Sweden want to ban women who choose to strip & prostitute? That's not equality -- that's totalitarianism. It seems the Feminist movement has turned into a dictatorial sort of fascistic set of ideals. If you think Feminism today has anything to do with Susan B. Anthony and Suffrage, you are sorely mistaken. | ||
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WolfintheSheep
Canada14127 Posts
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Wegandi
United States2455 Posts
On December 22 2011 04:11 quirl wrote: You have to distinguish between the idea and the people who (want to) represent the idea. While feminism is a very important topic and we have, after 100 years of coming up with that idea, still not reached 100% equality, that woman in your examples is just stupid. In that regard men and women are pretty much equal. You will never reach 100% Equality, and if you did it would be disastrous and downright stupid. It wouldn't be 'equal' it would be discrimination based on gender. Hey that guy over there working ten times harder than his female co-worker, but should get paid the same? So stupid. As the other poster said; Equality of Law, but outside those bounds and in regards to salary and wages should be based on merit and productivity. If you argue wages and salaries should be based on GENDER, how are you any different than those who say base it on religion, creed, or ethnicity? People have no choice over those things (sans religion), but you think its a good idea to base such important foundations as economics on gender? How does that even make any rational sense in your mind, or did you not really think it through that far? Just another No True Scotsman. I wonder if the Feminists will argue to get paid less since many are now making 10% more than their male counterparts. Let's see how far they take this 'equality'. | ||
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plated.rawr
Norway1676 Posts
That said, modern feminism has in a lot of aspects completely lost its focus. It's no longer about equal opportunities and opportunity of free choice. Instead, you have focus on gender neutrality or, for some extremes, the subservience of males to females. This is just silly, and are in no way related to what feminism means. These are what gets attention though, and is what paints feminism with a broad and bad brush. | ||
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ComaDose
Canada10357 Posts
...does feminism even exist anymore in 1st world countries?... This hurt me so much. So many of the replies hurt me so much. Some of the people who have posted so far in this thread need help beyond reading a comment. Anyone who believes women are treated equally with men anywhere in the world are mistaken. Anyone who can say feminist or feminism with a negative connotation is ignorant. Feminists are not against strippers, they are for them. The woman who made the youtube videos is obviously stupid but a stupid youtube video does not warrant a thread bashing a movement for equality. If you want to start a topic on feminism I think you should know more than what a stupid person told you on a youtube video. Please close this thread its spreading ignorance and its painful to observe. | ||
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Wegandi
United States2455 Posts
On December 22 2011 03:55 Liquid`Tyler wrote: yeah this is a really really bad way to learn about feminism. like in most things, there are a lot of people with a really low understanding:enthusiasm ratio in the feminism movement yeah me too. contrived gender roles are a serious problem that limit options and sometimes force people to act in a way that doesn't make them the happiest. it starts with shit like toys assigned for only one gender On a great deal of areas I agree that an individual should pursue their interests and that those around them should support them insofar as it doesn't do great bodily or mental harm to them (gentle persuasion out of say...doing meth would be ideal), however, to say that gender roles are contrived is to dismiss nature. Men and women are not built either physically or mentally, the same. There is a physiological and biological reason that Men and Women generally have different tastes in a wide ranging amount of activities and interests. Further, many things require different attributes to perform well. You aren't going to see many male ballet dancers for instance because men lack both the finesse and dexterity of their female counterparts (sure, there are exceptions...), and you won't find many females out there jack hammering away at cement or other strenuous physical work. You cannot fight against Nature and win. Sorry that biological and physiological realities constrict people down certain paths (you can however surely go against the grain if you want, but not sure you'll find much success or happiness). | ||
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Scorcher2k
United States802 Posts
On December 22 2011 03:55 Liquid`Tyler wrote: yeah this is a really really bad way to learn about feminism. like in most things, there are a lot of people with a really low understanding:enthusiasm ratio in the feminism movement yeah me too. contrived gender roles are a serious problem that limit options and sometimes force people to act in a way that doesn't make them the happiest. it starts with shit like toys assigned for only one gender I don't think that you can honestly say that the majority of boys would lean toward one toy while the majority of girls would lean towards the other though. Saying that it's true doesn't mean that you are being sexist, it simply means that you recognize that most girls have feminine personalities and interests while most boys have masculine personalities and interests. The fact that certain toys are pushed to girls or boys is because of advertising. Companies want to sell their products. If their toy didn't fit a certain demographic more than the other then you wouldn't see it pushed towards a girl or boy. I believe that, as much as some people would like to believe that there aren't gender differences the fact remains that there are. Those differences don't effect equality but simply make us different. Further, it is up to the parents of a child to make sure that they are happy have room to grow. For example, I started dating my g/f about 6 months ago and she has a 7 year old girl. We do everything: soccer, boxing, reading, marvel cartoons and movies, she plays with her dolls, likes to have her hair done up, etc. I don't consider her a tomboy or a girly girl. She is my little girl and I'm not going to label her. | ||
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Wegandi
United States2455 Posts
On December 22 2011 04:42 ComaDose wrote: This hurt me so much. So many of the replies hurt me so much. Some of the people who have posted so far in this thread need help beyond reading a comment. Anyone who believes women are treated equally with men anywhere in the world are mistaken. Anyone who can say feminist or feminism with a negative connotation is ignorant. Feminists are not against strippers, they are for them. The woman who made the youtube videos is obviously stupid but a stupid youtube video does not warrant a thread bashing a movement for equality. If you want to start a topic on feminism I think you should know more than what a stupid person told you on a youtube video. Please close this thread its spreading ignorance and its painful to observe. Sorry, it was Iceland not Sweden. http://www.guardian.co.uk/lifeandstyle/2010/mar/25/iceland-most-feminist-country Really? I all ready posted a piece by Time that a great deal of women are getting paid 10%+ than their male counterparts. Since you argue for equality surely you are in favor of reducing their wages by 10% so they are equal with their male counterparts right? | ||
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ComaDose
Canada10357 Posts
On December 22 2011 04:47 Wegandi wrote: Sorry, it was Iceland not Sweden. http://www.guardian.co.uk/lifeandstyle/2010/mar/25/iceland-most-feminist-country Really? I all ready posted a piece by Time that a great deal of women are getting paid 10%+ than their male counterparts. Since you argue for equality surely you are in favor of reducing their wages by 10% so they are equal with their male counterparts right? Yes closing down the sex industry is ironically sexist. And about the wages. I believe the better performing employee should be paid more. And women should be given as much chance as men to demonstrate how they perform the job. | ||
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ranshaked
United States870 Posts
On December 22 2011 04:42 ComaDose wrote: This hurt me so much. So many of the replies hurt me so much. Some of the people who have posted so far in this thread need help beyond reading a comment. Anyone who believes women are treated equally with men anywhere in the world are mistaken. Anyone who can say feminist or feminism with a negative connotation is ignorant. Feminists are not against strippers, they are for them. The woman who made the youtube videos is obviously stupid but a stupid youtube video does not warrant a thread bashing a movement for equality. If you want to start a topic on feminism I think you should know more than what a stupid person told you on a youtube video. Please close this thread its spreading ignorance and its painful to observe. Instead of bashing this thread? Why don't you describe the true movement and post factual evidence? someone else posted the Time article stating that single women are currently making more than men. Explain the situation. This is what most "feminists" i meet state (video) | ||
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bonifaceviii
Canada2890 Posts
Darn that scholarly criticism within fields of study! | ||
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BlueBird.
United States3889 Posts
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Phyrigian
New Zealand1332 Posts
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Wegandi
United States2455 Posts
On December 22 2011 04:49 ComaDose wrote: Yes closing down the sex industry is ironically sexist. And about the wages. I believe the better performing employee should be paid more. And women should be given as much chance as men to demonstrate how they perform the job. Then that is not equality that is meritocracy. Feminism today has nothing to do with the movement created by figures like Susan B. Anthony. So why the outcry ex-post of wage disparities when females were on general making less? If it was based on discrimination then the goal would be to end the discrimination, and not necessarily some vague 'equality', right? It was never about ending the discrimination, but reversing it towards a favorable genesis to women and a punishment of men. I've met quite a few Feminists with such putred hatred of men....I'm sure we've all met them. You can't keep throwing around No True Scotsman fallacies, that all these Feminists are not Feminists because they don't hold to what you view as a Feminist is. I think a lot of men would be shocked by the views of the modern-day Feminists, and I think a great deal of men are very supportive of the old-Feminist ideals and movement of equality of Law, and of Suffrage. | ||
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