EPT
Best Zerg Of All Times
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Aggr0teiL
Bulgaria9 Posts
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fusionsdf
Canada15390 Posts
I don't think I even have to justify it | ||
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StorrZerg
United States13919 Posts
brought mutas in. | ||
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eagle
United States693 Posts
he came up with 5 hatch hydra build in pvz | ||
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ghostWriter
United States3302 Posts
Jaedong is impressive right now, but he has stiff competition while savior was on the next level all by himself. | ||
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anderoo
Canada1876 Posts
cuz he's the coolest | ||
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Chef
10810 Posts
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NoNones
41 Posts
He fine tuned zerg econ play JulyZerg - For his use of higher apm zerg's that follow up like jaedong with, stacking mutas and high aggression play Basically Savior = econ fine tuned July = agressive fine tuned/micro. | ||
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AzureEye
United States1360 Posts
while mastering the ZvP 5 hatch hydra build = Macro more as response | ||
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Nytefish
United Kingdom4282 Posts
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AzureEye
United States1360 Posts
On June 30 2009 03:30 NoNones wrote: Savior - For his 3 hatch builds which are staples for a long time and still viable now of days esp in zvt He fine tuned zerg econ play JulyZerg - For his use of higher apm zerg's that follow up like jaedong with, stacking mutas and high aggression play Basically Savior = econ fine tuned July = agressive fine tuned/micro. July's play was aggressive but his only shiny matchup was ZvP. You can't be the best z of all time with only zvp | ||
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Fr33t
United States1128 Posts
Jaedong hands down in terms of everything. | ||
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Murlox
France1699 Posts
I didn't witness Savior's prime. I like Kwanro too, definitely not number one though. | ||
TheFallofTroy
Canada780 Posts
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ClockworkBlues
Canada74 Posts
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Jayme
United States5866 Posts
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Shauni
4077 Posts
On June 30 2009 03:46 Jayme wrote: If your answer was anything other than Savior then you are wrong. You spelled Silver wrong... | ||
Chill
Calgary25980 Posts
Well Savior then. Jaedong is the "best" Zerg though. | ||
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Fr33t
United States1128 Posts
On June 30 2009 03:48 Chill wrote: Oh, we're going by dominance and development? Well Savior then. Jaedong is the "best" Zerg though. | ||
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Railz
United States1449 Posts
On June 30 2009 03:34 AzureEye wrote: July's play was aggressive but his only shiny matchup was ZvP. You can't be the best z of all time with only zvp Was? Are you joking? When he exploded on the scene his ZvT was taking down giants left and right. | ||
Last Romantic
United States20661 Posts
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B1nary
Canada1267 Posts
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Pufftrees
2449 Posts
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Vharox
United States1037 Posts
always. EDIT: AND CHOJJA HE IS SO ADORABLE | ||
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KlaCkoN
Sweden1661 Posts
My pick is july. He broke oov's 27-0 streak and made zvt playable again. And his standard build was 3 hat long before ipxzerg took down oov on intothedarkness. He is also the most longlasting zerg ever and as far as I know he is the most sucessful player _ever_ (all races) in the OSL which for whatever reason is regarded as the more prestigious star league. I remember a thread ages ago, (don't think july had won Good Friend yet) where the topic was which zerg was the best of all time, yellow or july. My pick then was yellow, for beeing the father of zerg and for leading the swarm through the boxer era of ridicolous t>>>>z maps. but july persevered and I really think he is the best by now. (obviously jaedong in absolute skill but that's hardly debatable.) | ||
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ragnasaur
United States804 Posts
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StorrZerg
United States13919 Posts
On June 30 2009 03:34 AzureEye wrote: July's play was aggressive but his only shiny matchup was ZvP. You can't be the best z of all time with only zvp being the only zerg to stop OoV's rampage against the zerg? his zvp just crushes his other mu, but he was amazing in zvt as well. his zvp just seems to be the only mu he cares about also zvz he won his osl group which was all z's. to make himself 1st seed (his most recent osl win/golden mouse) | ||
disciple
9070 Posts
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Mora
Canada5235 Posts
junwi fighting! | ||
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Avidkeystamper
United States8552 Posts
July, JD, and Savior all have their unique styles. The only influence they had from each other was 3 hatch muta and 5 hatch hydra. The builds change so rapidly that neither of the 3 has an definitive advantage over the other in how much their contributed to the race. Savior would be the most dominant. In terms of pure skill, Jaedong undoubtedley has that locked down. I didn't follow espors during its early years so I can't say, but I do like Jaedong, and you have to remember, his career is still in full force. | ||
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AttackZerg
United States7454 Posts
Before him the swarm was an inconsistent breed with lots of low eco play. He fine tuned 2 and 3 hat play in zvt to develop and economy AND still hit strong timing windows. ZvP He shifted the focus from low eco attacks to A>B>C with tech switches. He single handedly changed the game. The strongest zerg of all time is definately jaedong. | ||
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ffswowsucks
Greece2294 Posts
korean: YellOw, JulyZerg, sAviOr, Jaedong, choJJa chinese: F91 european: Anon, xIaOzI, ret, sataNik, blackman, Mondragon | ||
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lxginverse
Monaco1506 Posts
Savior ofc | ||
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stafu
Australia1196 Posts
Insane facts about Jaedong: 1) He's approaching 70% win-rate on TLPD for his entire career. BEAST. 2) 81.3% ZvZ. 3) Record from the start of this year: 71 wins - 26 losses (73.20%) (and this is all while absolutely carrying Oz. Other teams are trying their hardest to take him down any way they can with their best/most prepared players, ace match after ace match.) With the kind of skill level around today, that's pretty amazing. If he can keep it up (which I believe he can), next bonjwa. | ||
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ClockworkBlues
Canada74 Posts
On June 30 2009 04:50 ffswowsucks wrote: Just to name a few korean: YellOw, JulyZerg, sAviOr, Jaedong, choJJa chinese: F91 european: Anon, xIaOzI, ret, sataNik, blackman, Mondragon Oh man... Blackman was definitely my favourite player ever. He created the sauron zerg! Sad how easily foreigners are forgotten. | ||
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vRoOk
United States1024 Posts
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grobo
Japan6199 Posts
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InToTheWannaB
United States4770 Posts
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rushz0rz
Canada5300 Posts
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verzisor
Romania73 Posts
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ghostWriter
United States3302 Posts
On June 30 2009 04:07 Last Romantic wrote: YellOw you guys are all traitors Oh crap, I totally forgot about him. Like everyone else, I went nuts when he trashed bisu on heartbreak. But then again, he did lose to a bunker rush 3 times in a row, even if it was boxer... Savior's reign of dominance can be displayed by the description of the MSL as the Ma Jae Yoon Starleague. His late game hive play was just artistic. | ||
Hot_Bid
Braavos36375 Posts
Highest Level Achieved: Jaedong I can't see how anyone can argue that Jaedong was more influential style-wise than Savior. Yes, he popularized the 2-hatch muta build (but wasn't the first to really do it) and pioneered the new-age ZvP (that most Zergs try to copy). But those two somewhat significant innovations are easily surpassed by the change that Savior created with his ZvP and ZvT, which totally swung the balance in those two matchups and established standardized BOs for quite some time. When oov was dominating it seemed like Zerg had no answer late game for T armies (save for one magical starleague run by Gorush). Then all of a sudden every Zerg is timing and using defilers and expansions etc like Savior did. EVERY zerg was doing it. Also, it's pretty obvious Jaedong has reached the highest peak level of any Zerg player, possibly of any Starcraft player (the only guy who can compete with him is Bisu) ever. If you look at the way Jaedong plays, its basically impossible to copy. Sure other Zergs tried to, but its not the same as emulating Savior (which is entirely possible, just look at GGPlay winning Daum or Effort now). Nobody really has had very much success trying to copy Jaedong, simply because they can't. That should really tell you something about who was more influential. | ||
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vx70GTOJudgexv
United States3161 Posts
On June 30 2009 03:39 iMBA wrote: Zero! Where would Infested Terrans be without him? In the hands of GoCrush I believe On June 30 2009 04:50 ffswowsucks wrote: Just to name a few korean: YellOw, JulyZerg, sAviOr, Jaedong, choJJa chinese: F91 european: Anon, xIaOzI, ret, sataNik, blackman, Mondragon XiaOzI is actually Chinese. -- I think the fact that sAviOr was the only Zerg bonjwa and he changed the game for all three races with his timings should really speak for itself. Granted, this is opinion, but I mean, c'mon. 3 MSL titles 5 consecutive MSL finals 7 consecutive MSL Top 8 finishes. (8 total) 12 consecutive MSL appearances - The last time MJY wasn't in an MSL was YATGK MSL back in 2004 (13 total) 1 OSL title - Royal Road 3 consecutive OSL Top 8 finishes (3 total) 5 consecutive OSL appearances Maintains ≥55% winning percentage in all matchups Held onto the Zerg ELO peak for over a year. Still holds ZvP ELO Peak 3rd highest ZvT ELO Peak 3rd highest ZvZ ELO Peak | ||
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sillyboy_tomato
United States157 Posts
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vx70GTOJudgexv
United States3161 Posts
On June 30 2009 05:16 sillyboy_tomato wrote: But I think no other Zerg has accomplished the consistency that jaedong has Uhhh... what? After EVER2007, he lost in Ro8 in Bacchus, got eliminated in Ro24 for EVER2008, completely missed Incruit and then came back for Batoo. After Arena MSL finals, he has yet to make another MSL Round of 8. That's not really consistent imo. | ||
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Avidkeystamper
United States8552 Posts
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SuperArc
Austria7781 Posts
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vx70GTOJudgexv
United States3161 Posts
On June 30 2009 05:43 Avidkeystamper wrote: But his career isn't over yet? Even during those times, he maintained a strong position on the PR. I'm just stating that he's been absent from leagues quite often and so on and so forth. | ||
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3 Lions
United States3705 Posts
On June 30 2009 05:43 Avidkeystamper wrote: But his career isn't over yet? Even during those times, he maintained a strong position on the PR. Just because you're on the PR doesn't mean you are performing well in individual leagues. Look at Violet. | ||
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AzureEye
United States1360 Posts
On June 30 2009 04:06 Railz wrote: Was? Are you joking? When he exploded on the scene his ZvT was taking down giants left and right. Yeah I know his ZvT was great at the time But it was only temporarily, and this poll asks of all time. | ||
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ForSC2
United States580 Posts
On June 30 2009 03:36 Murlox wrote: Jaedong looks unbeatable Jaedong loses to every other S class on a bad day. Savior during that period loses to what? Bisu and... Canata? The only other possible choice is JulyZerg because of how he broke Iloveoov's year long vs zerg win ratio, his ability to stay relevant, and his spectacular zvp style which as of right now may be zergs highest zvp of all time since Savior got dethroned. If you want to talk about current skill level, then yes Jaedong is king. If it's contribution to the zerg race in terms of new tactics, etc then maybe there's an argument, but then players like Yellow would be pretty high up too. If you're talking about dominance the only choice is one of the bonjwas and Savior is the only zerg bonjwa. People that say Jaedong if they're not basing their decisions on current skill level or contribution to the scene prove that they weren't here when savior was king. Where you'd see threads seriously considering whether savior's dominance was a good or bad thing for sc. Where people would hate him because despite the fact he always wins it's in a much more boring way than say boxer's way. Where you have Nada winning the accomplishment of his life after a long slump and dedicating his win to his dead father and people say Nada still couldn't beat Savior with his current force and point to the game right after his OSL victory where he lost vs Savior. Where you'd put in any player in the game vs savior and say I can't imagine Savior losing. Jaedong certainly isn't that much better than his peers if he's better at all. Starcraft is still in a state of flux with top players trading games with top players. It's going to be a while before we see another Nada or Iloveoov. Also I'm feeling sad no one is mentioning Gorush at all. Not that I think he's better than Savior. Before JulyZerg got his golden mouse I always saw Gorush as to economic zerg play as July was to aggressive play. | ||
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Avidkeystamper
United States8552 Posts
On June 30 2009 05:59 3 Lions wrote: Just because you're on the PR doesn't mean you are performing well in individual leagues. Look at Violet. Yeah, but I was more referring to how his play didn't dip too much during that time. He judges consistency based on results, I do it on gameplay. | ||
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FranzF1
Chile1710 Posts
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LosingID8
CA10828 Posts
On June 30 2009 05:09 verzisor wrote: July. But I wonder what people would think about July vs Nada as best player of all time sine they both have a golden mouse comparing nada to july head to head, i don't think anyone can honestly choose july over nada. this is both in terms of consistency, nonexistant MSL results for july, and because in IOPS OSL nada 3-0'd july. | ||
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fanatacist
10319 Posts
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KOFgokuon
United States14893 Posts
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Ideas
United States8101 Posts
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fanatacist
10319 Posts
On June 30 2009 06:36 KOFgokuon wrote: savior FBH | ||
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Chef
10810 Posts
On June 30 2009 06:05 ForSC2 wrote: Jaedong loses to every other S class on a bad day. Savior during that period loses to what? Bisu and... Canata? I would argue Bisu was the end of Savior's dominance, not a rival during his dominance. But I definitely agree with your point. There were the chumps, there were the greats, there were the amazings, and then there was freaking Savior. You'd watch games played by amazing players just cause you liked them, but you'd watch EVERY game by Savior, and when he played against an amazing player, he was still a huge favourite to win. Savior always seemed to take best of fives and only the best could even make it to the fifth game with him. When Bisu got his rise to fame... Sure his PvZ was revolutionary, but his PvT was mediocre (among great players, still better than most players), and his PvP was sometimes suspect. Taking Stork was amazing, but after that Bisu was never really the same force he used to be. His micro and tactics were always strong, but I didn't see him dominating. | ||
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CharlieMurphy
United States22895 Posts
On June 30 2009 03:22 fusionsdf wrote: savior I don't think I even have to justify it On June 30 2009 03:25 StorZerg wrote: JulyZerg brought mutas in. On June 30 2009 03:25 eagle wrote: Jaedong he came up with 5 hatch hydra build in pvz I lol'd at the first 3 responses in this thread. Then I thought Wa- wa- WAITGOD DAMNED MINUTE! Where the fuck is [NC]...YelloW ? Then I remembered that Yellow was reverse bonjwa for eternity. PS- Also Shark? or whoever it was that discovered the use for muta stacking. That changed the game so much its crazy. | ||
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Refrige
United States179 Posts
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ffswowsucks
Greece2294 Posts
On June 30 2009 07:19 CharlieMurphy wrote: PS- Also Shark? or whoever it was that discovered the use for muta stacking. That changed the game so much its crazy. I think ur refering to JulyZerg. but im not sure since u said discovered... | ||
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DarkShadowz
Sweden321 Posts
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ffswowsucks
Greece2294 Posts
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GoSu
Korea (South)1773 Posts
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ZeeTemplar
United States557 Posts
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Tekin
2711 Posts
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fanatacist
10319 Posts
On June 30 2009 07:10 Chef wrote: I would argue Bisu was the end of Savior's dominance, not a rival during his dominance. But I definitely agree with your point. There were the chumps, there were the greats, there were the amazings, and then there was freaking Savior. You'd watch games played by amazing players just cause you liked them, but you'd watch EVERY game by Savior, and when he played against an amazing player, he was still a huge favourite to win. Savior always seemed to take best of fives and only the best could even make it to the fifth game with him. When Bisu got his rise to fame... Sure his PvZ was revolutionary, but his PvT was mediocre (among great players, still better than most players), and his PvP was sometimes suspect. Taking Stork was amazing, but after that Bisu was never really the same force he used to be. His micro and tactics were always strong, but I didn't see him dominating. If I understood you correctly I would have to disagree. If you mean that Bisu is not the same force in terms of dominance over the scene right now, then I agree - Jaedong and Flash and the loss once in a while to JangBi/Stork/Some chump that is not as good as those two make him not seem as much of a clear favorite for best player on Earth. If you mean that Bisu is not the calibre player he used to be, I think you are mistaken - I have watched his older games recently (vs. Savior, vs. Jaedong on BS, vs. Flash on Katrina, vs. Stork on Loki) and I think what I notice the most is how much he has improved in all match-ups. His PvT has gotten way better, and I think his game vs. Flash on Katrina was just the start of that trend iirc. His PvP is the best in the world, I have no doubts about it - his performance in the finals vs. Stork was not as stellar as it is now, even though he didn't go linearly up in skill he is definitely far above what he used to be. His PvZ is still impeccable, and I think that how you play vs. Bisu in PvZ is what sets apart A-class from S-class Zergs. In games where there is no error on Bisu's part, Zergs that are below the likes of Jaedong/Effort look like C+ chumps (with the occasional exception in recent times in games vs. by.hero, hyvaa (I believe) and Yellow (come on that game was pimp, what Protoss player would have beaten that?)). In games where Bisu is fighting an S-class Zerg, like his GOM Bo5 vs Jaedong, showcase the peak of PvZ play, the best performance from both sides in all of SC history. Phew lengthy post :p I think I covered everything though. | ||
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fanatacist
10319 Posts
On June 30 2009 07:31 ffswowsucks wrote: I think ur refering to JulyZerg. but im not sure since u said discovered... It was Shark. | ||
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geegee1
United States618 Posts
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koreasilver
9109 Posts
On June 30 2009 05:16 sillyboy_tomato wrote: No question it has got to be Julyzerg and Savior that are the best representatives of the Zerg race. But I think no other Zerg has accomplished the consistency that jaedong has Savior's era? On June 30 2009 07:31 ffswowsucks wrote: I think ur refering to JulyZerg. but im not sure since u said discovered... No, it was Shark. | ||
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fanatacist
10319 Posts
On June 30 2009 08:17 geegee1 wrote: they said it could be shark or could be luxury noone exactly knows and julyzerg was the first to use muta micro on a live match Why are so many people talking out of their asses... It was Shark, for the third time in this thread (thank you kona for repeating me :p read threads moar.) | ||
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Mindcrime
United States6899 Posts
On June 30 2009 05:05 InToTheWannaB wrote: yellow was by far and away the best zerg for like 6 years running. No other zerg has been clearly that much better then the rest for that long, but yellow always just had boxer beating on him. If not for boxer yellow would be thought of as the greatest of all time. I think that makes him the best zerg in BW history. I really hope this is a joke. Six years? So he was far and away the best zerg 2001 through 2007? Fuck, Yellow stopped being the indisputably best zerg when Chojja really hit the scene in mid 2002. | ||
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drinking
Philippines281 Posts
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DragoonPK
3259 Posts
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RedTerror
New Zealand742 Posts
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Bub
United States3518 Posts
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R3condite
Korea (South)1541 Posts
On June 30 2009 03:22 fusionsdf wrote: savior I don't think I even have to justify it yeah... cus he started it all... | ||
Carnivorous Sheep
Baa?21243 Posts
Also, regarding Zergs by region, I like EVA more than F91 Pity he retired D: | ||
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Deleted User 3420
24492 Posts
jaedong and july tie for 2nd imo and i think effort is the best right now, not jaedong really. you'll see. he's going to win everything soon | ||
IntoTheWow
is awesome32274 Posts
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TheYango
United States47024 Posts
Honorable mention goes to NC.YellOw. | ||
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closed
Vatican City State491 Posts
or maybe savior | ||
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FragKrag
United States11552 Posts
However, I like JulyZerg for his aggressive play style and his awesome ZvP. | ||
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geegee1
United States618 Posts
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FranzF1
Chile1710 Posts
and probably Yellow =P | ||
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