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So for the last couple of weeks I've been practicing the goon reaver build that I discussed in my last post. I have probably played about 40 - 50 8 minute games against the computer since then. I make a game PvP vs the comp, build to my second reaver, leave the game and check my time. After doing that enough time the build is pretty clear in my head.
Initially i would have to keep the piece of paper next to me with the build written on it and check it periodically to remember what to do. Eventually it got to the point where each building or troop I made would remind me naturally of the next one I had to make, other than a couple pylons that I would forget occasionally. Eventually when I focused on those pylons the supply count would remind me to make them without really trying to remember. So at this point I would say I have the build down.
During the last week, while still getting the build completely down, I've also been making "1v1 D Python PvP" games on ICCup, and that gets me around the problem of playing vs T and Z when I want to practice strictly a PvP strat. People will gladly jump right in and play the matchup you ask for.
You may remember how badly I started off in ICCup, getting thrashed by everyone. Just getting down this one build seems to have helped dramatically. I have felt much more confident, and having a tight build often puts me in a much stronger position in the early to mid game.
I've gone 9-3 in my last 12 games, 11 of those being PvP matchups. A couple of games I lost because i deviated from my build in response to something my opponent did, and realized I would have been ok if I had stuck to my build. I know some people will scoff at the idea of not adjusting to your opponent, but obviously I don't know how to vary my builds yet efficiently, because sticking to the one thign I have down is working best for me right now. Keep in mind also that this is at the D level, and right now my goal is to get to C.
I'm now D+ for the first time, ever, and above .500 (19-18) on ICCup for the first time, other than the occasional 1-0 or 2-0 start.
My next step is to learn a second build, up a different branch of the tech tree than reavers. My idea is that if I learn builds up all the tech paths, then when I want to switch branches mid game in response to my opponent, I should have a better idea of how to do that efficiently. Anyone have any build suggestions?
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United States24751 Posts
On March 31 2009 00:14 Loophole wrote:
So for the last couple of weeks I've been practicing the goon reaver build that I discussed in my last post. I have probably played about 40 - 50 8 minute games against the computer since then. I make a game PvP vs the comp, build to my second reaver, leave the game and check my time. After doing that enough time the build is pretty clear in my head.
Initially i would have to keep the piece of paper next to me with the build written on it and check it periodically to remember what to do. Eventually it got to the point where each building or troop I made would remind me naturally of the next one I had to make, other than a couple pylons that I would forget occasionally. Eventually when I focused on those pylons the supply count would remind me to make them without really trying to remember. So at this point I would say I have the build down.
During the last week, while still getting the build completely down, I've also been making "1v1 D Python PvP" games on ICCup, and that gets me around the problem of playing vs T and Z when I want to practice strictly a PvP strat. People will gladly jump right in and play the matchup you ask for.
You may remember how badly I started off in ICCup, getting thrashed by everyone. Just getting down this one build seems to have helped dramatically. I have felt much more confident, and having a tight build often puts me in a much stronger position in the early to mid game.
I've gone 9-3 in my last 12 games, 11 of those being PvP matchups. A couple of games I lost because i deviated from my build in response to something my opponent did, and realized I would have been ok if I had stuck to my build. I know some people will scoff at the idea of not adjusting to your opponent, but obviously I don't know how to vary my builds yet efficiently, because sticking to the one thign I have down is working best for me right now. Keep in mind also that this is at the D level, and right now my goal is to get to C.
I'm now D+ for the first time, ever, and above .500 (19-18) on ICCup for the first time, other than the occasional 1-0 or 2-0 start.
My next step is to learn a second build, up a different branch of the tech tree than reavers. My idea is that if I learn builds up all the tech paths, then when I want to switch branches mid game in response to my opponent, I should have a better idea of how to do that efficiently. Anyone have any build suggestions?
This sounds perfectly fine for now, but if you want C then you will need to adapt the builds. There is no build that is identical vs dt rush, 3 gate obsless all in goons, 2 gate zealots, and fe with forge. Don't be afraid to deviate even if it costs you games since it will help you in the long run.
Rather than focus on a completely different build now, you might want to focus on ways specifically you can deviate from the one you want to use so far...
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On March 31 2009 00:18 micronesia wrote:
Rather than focus on a completely different build now, you might want to focus on ways specifically you can deviate from the one you want to use so far...
I'd do this first, too.
On March 31 2009 00:14 Loophole wrote:
My idea is that if I learn builds up all the tech paths, then when I want to switch branches mid game in response to my opponent, I should have a better idea of how to do that efficiently.
Switching tech as toss isn't really an on-the-fly mid-game response to something your opponent does. It's more of a timing thing that just takes practice on learning when to switch.
There are some cases where a flat out switch is good depending on what happens in the game, but usually switching tech is all about timing, it's not as easy for toss as it is for zerg to just jump around the tech tree. F91 does a lot of muta/hydra switch mind games vs Nony in the latest liquibition, and things like that aren't really doable as protoss.
Yes, there are things your opponent can do to change the time at which you switch, but it's usually nothing major. ie very tank heavy terran so you need legs a bit sooner
There's one big scenario that comes to mind (happens to me most often compared to others) where I'd say "Tech switch now or you'll be too far behind"
Say it's pvp and you did your standard 2gate robo, maybe expo before reavers or something, and your opponent goes for some goon heavy opening in order to contain you. Perhaps he forces you to cancel your nexus, or even kills it. Maybe he just has too many goons and you can't push out from your nat without losing too much.
When this happens I'll either get shuttle speed, take an island, and try to harrass, or you can tech switch. Throw down a citadel, go up to 5 gates, and mass speedzeals. If you can keep them hidden it's a really nice surprise. A goon contain without reavers will break to something like this, and often times they'll expand after containing you and if you manage to surprise them you can plow them with zealots and win 
I remember a replay of Draco doing this against someone on R-Point? Maybe it was a WCG match, not sure.
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Nice work! I'm going to try this.
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It's always so surprising how big of a difference it makes when you just sit down for 20ish minutes and practice a build
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I've been inactive for months now, and I'm switching from protoss to terran. TvP is such fun match up!
16-2 atm
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Nice job Piste. I've heard a lot of protoss players that play TvP instead of PvP because they like the matchup.
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On March 31 2009 04:58 Loophole wrote:
Nice job Piste. I've heard a lot of protoss players that play TvP instead of PvP because they like the matchup.
LMAO, they must be masochists then. I know a lot of Z players who favour TvZ over ZvZ, but why on earth would you want to play TvP?
EDIT: At OP: Good job so far, this is the way to properly learn StarCraft. If you adapt this style of training for all of your MUs, you're going to improve tremendeously.
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On March 31 2009 07:48 d1v wrote:
EDIT: At OP: Good job so far, this is the way to properly learn StarCraft. If you adapt this style of training for all of your MUs, you're going to improve tremendeously.
Is it really? I shouldn't talk because I don't play anymore but it seems like this would make a person's gameplay rigid and inflexible. Techniques like good scouting and fast decision making based on reconnaisance apply to all matchups and builds. Learning this way seems to totally exclude that. Multi tasking and micro are also not being trained if a person is merely drilling a BO mechanically against a computer then leaving the game. Also if the game progresses into a long match then the person will be totally helpless trying to do late game army control and multi base management since they never practiced it.
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On March 31 2009 07:48 d1v wrote:Show nested quote +On March 31 2009 04:58 Loophole wrote:
Nice job Piste. I've heard a lot of protoss players that play TvP instead of PvP because they like the matchup. LMAO, they must be masochists then. I know a lot of Z players who favour TvZ over ZvZ, but why on earth would you want to play TvP? EDIT: At OP: Good job so far, this is the way to properly learn StarCraft. If you adapt this style of training for all of your MUs, you're going to improve tremendeously.
because there is no feeling in the world like beating a retarded toss, and if you lose, well don't worry about it, its just a stupid retard toss who only wins because of imba, so why care?
//really though there is just something so mechanically satisfying about terran that I don't get playing as other races
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On March 31 2009 11:47 yoshtodd wrote:Show nested quote +On March 31 2009 07:48 d1v wrote:
EDIT: At OP: Good job so far, this is the way to properly learn StarCraft. If you adapt this style of training for all of your MUs, you're going to improve tremendeously. Is it really? I shouldn't talk because I don't play anymore but it seems like this would make a person's gameplay rigid and inflexible. Techniques like good scouting and fast decision making based on reconnaisance apply to all matchups and builds. Learning this way seems to totally exclude that. Multi tasking and micro are also not being trained if a person is merely drilling a BO mechanically against a computer then leaving the game. Also if the game progresses into a long match then the person will be totally helpless trying to do late game army control and multi base management since they never practiced it.
I agree with what you're saying.
But having a set BO and understanding it definitly helps. While drilling a BO into your head you do learn mechanics and stuff that will help your game. There was an article about mind over mechanics and it seems mechanics makes a good player but the mind makes a brilliant player.
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EPT
