EPTSeeking Religion - Page 6
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Deleted User 3420
24492 Posts
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SpiritoftheTunA
United States20903 Posts
On February 17 2009 15:08 travis wrote: you just contradicted yourself. first you say there is no way to absolve yourself, then you immediately say "true saints" could do it. aren't "true saints" people? Why do we have to do anything if he already forgave us? Can we not just forgive our selves? absolution is the removal/forgiveness of sin saints are people who never sinned ever, so they don't require absolution everybody else was screwed though and it takes holy forgiveness to cleanse the soul of sin, and only a clean/absolved soul may enter heaven. patting yourself on the back and forgiving yourself does nothing for the soul. | ||
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SpiritoftheTunA
United States20903 Posts
On February 17 2009 15:10 travis wrote: if jesus is so literally god then why is belief in jesus necessary and not just belief in god ? you need to acknowledge that god came down in a human form and saved you | ||
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Deleted User 3420
24492 Posts
On February 17 2009 15:10 SpiritoftheTunA wrote: absolution is the removal of sin saints are people who never sinned ever, so they don't require absolution everybody else was screwed though ok so you agree that you contradicted yourself? and it takes holy forgiveness to cleanse the soul of sin, and only a clean/absolved soul may enter heaven ok so us putting faith into jesus' forgiveness somehow causes holy forgiveness? but without the faith the holy forgiveness does not happen? | ||
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Deleted User 3420
24492 Posts
On February 17 2009 15:11 SpiritoftheTunA wrote: you need to acknowledge that god came down in a human form and saved you so I need to acknowledge something that I didn't witness? why should I do that, as an attemptedly rational and freethinking man? | ||
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SpiritoftheTunA
United States20903 Posts
On February 17 2009 15:17 travis wrote: ok so you agree that you contradicted yourself? no, i didnt. before jesus, the only people who made it into heaven were people who didn't sin at all (saints). jesus introduced the concept of absolution and forgiveness, which made it possible for sinners to be forgiven and get into heaven by purifying their impure souls. where's the contradiction? ok so us putting faith into jesus' forgiveness somehow causes holy forgiveness? but without the faith the holy forgiveness does not happen? well you have to ask for it personally too, via a personal relationship with god or often through a catholic priest. (who will then tell you via their relationship with god that god has forgiven you) | ||
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SpiritoftheTunA
United States20903 Posts
On February 17 2009 15:20 travis wrote: so I need to acknowledge something that I didn't witness? intelligent christians actually think this is realistic? yes, yes they do. in their defense though, many people do simply acknowledge alot of things you can't personally witness, such as the existence of black holes. to christians, the bible is as good evidence as astronomical observations are to physicists. | ||
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Mada_Jiang
Australia236 Posts
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SpiritoftheTunA
United States20903 Posts
On February 17 2009 15:23 Mada_Jiang wrote: For all those who are reading or contributing to this thread, I strongly encourage you to communicate with God him self and get your answers. If he is a loving father he wouldn't leave you in the dark. Rather than reading through how each individual think about religion, step away from that and ask God to reveal him self to you. For those of you who are getting all worked up arguing with each other and treating each other like you would never do to each other in real life.... I have one suggestion: Rather than debating over whether heat waves exists, put your self there and feel the heat it self. Once again my email is oni_jiang@hotmail.com. I wont tell you what I think, if you are interested, I will share with you my experiences with God. I pray that peace will be with you. ^.^ you are stupid. i will not explicate further because you would simply disregard it. peace to you too though. + Show Spoiler + heat waves are just extended periods of hot days, if you mean heat radiation, then i still don't care and you're still stupid | ||
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Deleted User 3420
24492 Posts
On February 17 2009 15:20 SpiritoftheTunA wrote: no, i didnt. before jesus, the only people who made it into heaven were people who didn't sin at all (saints). oh im very sorry I did misunderstand what you were saying well you have to ask for it personally too, via a personal relationship with god or often through a catholic priest. ok but so, all the muslims and jews and hindus etc who believe they have a personal relationship with god are wrong and will go to hell for a lack of faith in jesus? despite pious and virtuous lives? | ||
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SpiritoftheTunA
United States20903 Posts
On February 17 2009 15:26 travis wrote: ok but so, all the muslims and jews and hindus etc who believe they have a personal relationship with god are wrong and will go to hell for a lack of faith in jesus? despite pious and virtuous lives? yep. if they sin at all, and never ask jesus for forgiveness, they're screwed. that's the biggest problem i have with christianity. some of the more hardcore christians in this thread would claim that god attempts to reach out and teach these truths via dreams/revelations to all sinners, but that seems a little far-fetched to me. | ||
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Deleted User 3420
24492 Posts
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SpiritoftheTunA
United States20903 Posts
On February 17 2009 15:31 travis wrote: The biggest problem I have with it is that I have absolutely no good reason to believe it. I think that the message could be partially accurate but that it's a problem when it is taken too literally. a christian would say you are a sinner in denial, and if you don't believe, you'll go to hell. i say, yeah, it shouldn't really matter whether you believe it or not. | ||
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BanZu
United States3329 Posts
On February 17 2009 15:31 travis wrote: The biggest problem I have with it is that I have absolutely no good reason to believe it. I think that the message could be partially accurate but that it's a problem when it is taken too literally. This is true. Through reasoning there's a snowball's chance in hell of you believing that God exists. Rather than using your mind to understand everything, you'll need to experience it yourself. What you said in the second sentence is an example of using your mind to try and understand what the Bible teaches. Some people grow up in the church life and it's a lot easier because they're open to God existing. | ||
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SpiritoftheTunA
United States20903 Posts
On February 17 2009 15:39 BanZu wrote: This is true. Through reasoning there's a snowball's chance in hell of you believing that God exists. Rather than using your mind to understand everything, you'll need to experience it yourself. What you said in the second sentence is an example of using your mind to try and understand what the Bible teaches. Some people grow up in the church life and it's a lot easier because they're open to God existing. reasoning is what lead him to believe that most flavors of christianity are unfair though why would one even want to experience the reality of such an unfair religion? + Show Spoiler + for reference, the flavors of christianity i consider the closest to fair are the ones where only good works and a pious life are required, not faith | ||
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fight_or_flight
United States3988 Posts
Instead you should actively search out the things that you believe. Use the truth analysis method that I posted, because you have to believe in something, as long as you are conscious. And you have to examine the fundamental assumptions of what you believe. + Show Spoiler + btw ulszz i'll get back to you edit: and there really isn't a "default" belief or philosophy, you have to choose one | ||
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SpiritoftheTunA
United States20903 Posts
On February 17 2009 15:44 fight_or_flight wrote: But the OP does feel a need for something. And I don't necessarily think you should expect all the religions to line up for you and try to convince you. You shouldn't generalize what most Christians think as a way to dismiss Christianity. Instead you should actively search out the things that you believe. Use the truth analysis method that I posted, because you have to believe in something, as long as you are conscious. And you have to examine the fundamental assumptions of what you believe. + Show Spoiler + btw ulszz i'll get back to you it sounded to me like the OP always generally carried the materialistic mindset (materialism being the definition you posted in that second essay thingy), but feels that it's too pessimistic and doesn't give him enough hope to continue living and function, and thus is searching for an alternate, more optimistic mindset. so i think he's already realized that he used to be materialistic but now wants to be transcendental, and is searching for the flavor of transcendentalism that most suits him. i, being the agnostic faggot that i am, am attempting to convince him that materialism is the right choice and to not be so defeatist in its conclusions. | ||
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BackHo
New Zealand400 Posts
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BanZu
United States3329 Posts
On February 17 2009 15:42 SpiritoftheTunA wrote: reasoning is what lead him to believe that most flavors of christianity are unfair though why would one even want to experience the reality of such an unfair religion? + Show Spoiler + for reference, the flavors of christianity i consider the closest to fair are the ones where only good works and a pious life are required, not faith Don't you remember that in the Bible there were two trees in the Garden of Eden? The Tree of Life, which is what God wants man to eat from, and the Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil? Why is it that good and evil are on the same tree? Because God didn't simply intend for us to good and stray away from evil. God wanted us to partake of Him as life. | ||
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SpiritoftheTunA
United States20903 Posts
On February 17 2009 16:00 BanZu wrote: Don't you remember that in the Bible there were two trees in the Garden of Eden? The Tree of Life, which is what God wants man to eat from, and the Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil? Why is it that good and evil are on the same tree? Because God didn't simply intend for us to good and stray away from evil. God wanted us to partake of Him as life. so how does that make me feel better about the people born in islamic areas or buddhist areas destined go to hell? they're evil for a reason? i'd rather go to hell as a martyr for all the people who're going to hell on complete chance than go to heaven because i'm lucky enough to know christianity and be able to practice it | ||
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