EPTWant your replay analyzed? - Page 6
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Shauni
4077 Posts
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inReacH
Sweden1612 Posts
On February 08 2009 02:22 Shauni wrote: I can't believe you're arguing over such a small, useless thing. And Oystein, do you have to back up your arguments with 'progamers does it' all the time? =P I guess you are kind of having my back by criticizing his argument methods, but there is no reason to belittle the discussion itself. I don't know if you play a lot of RTS but I would be surprised if you do given that you are implying that you are 'above' a debate like this. I find it very interesting to talk about the smallest things in an RTS despite the fact that they may not be the most important aspects of the game. | ||
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Shauni
4077 Posts
On February 08 2009 05:08 inReacH wrote: I guess you are kind of having my back by criticizing his argument methods, but there is no reason to belittle the discussion itself. I don't know if you play a lot of RTS but I would be surprised if you do given that you are implying that you are 'above' a debate like this. I find it very interesting to talk about the smallest things in an RTS despite the fact that they may not be the most important aspects of the game. What has this got to do with playing other RTS games? haha. I like discussing theory in Starcraft, even things such as the efficiency of manual mining micro. But the thing about letting gas finish or not is not a question of wrong and right. As an example, I'm scared as fuck and almost never take terran gas. This because I'm uncomfortable dealing with scv drill or m&m. Letting it finish or not is also very much based on preference. | ||
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Shauni
4077 Posts
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inReacH
Sweden1612 Posts
The only way the word preference is accurate is if you mean you have a preference in what you are trying to accomplish. Both paths have a different effect on your opponent, but given that he is proxying we already know what path he SHOULD want the terran to take, at this point it is not a matter of preference and there is a discernable right and wrong. You are right to be thinking about the results of your actions and not the actions themselves when you say "I don't like being SCV drilled" which is a possible outcome of leaving your assim up. There is no such thing as saying "I don't like canceling the assimilator", you can say it but there must be inference for it to be relevant, that is, there is ONLY opinions about the results of your actions. In that game he proxied, and thus he should be taking the 'assimlator-related' path that fits in with the rest of his strategy. | ||
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inReacH
Sweden1612 Posts
On February 08 2009 07:55 Shauni wrote: But I think at progamer level, protoss players usually become very very happy if terran is forced to throw down a second rax. I completely agree, but the bottom line is that it is the appropriate response to a proxy so the two things should not be used in conjunction with each other. | ||
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SpiritoftheTunA
United States20903 Posts
On February 08 2009 07:58 inReacH wrote: I completely agree, but the bottom line is that it is the appropriate response to a proxy so the two things should not be used in conjunction with each other. no, it's the proper response to a proxy + a gas steal; against a proxy only, if you can get your fact at the normal timing against a proxy (and hold with scv marine until vults or tanks are out), you'd much prefer that. | ||
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Shauni
4077 Posts
It's also a PvT but on medusa! http://repdepot.net/replay.php?id=7544 | ||
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Oystein
Norway1602 Posts
You have even spoken earlier in the thread about how powerful a gas steal is, and still here you are saying you should cancel and only slightly delay the terrans regular tech. And the reason I use progamer examples is because they are the greatest in the world at what they do, and they test and practice this day after day. If they believed canceling the gas was the right thing to do, they WOULD do it, so what you are basically saying is that all the progamers are wrong... Do you go to tiger woods and say his swing is bad in golf also because you think yours is better?? Now I agree that a lot of the things that happens on the progamer level aint as easy to apply on the foreign scene just because they are so much better at the mechanic aspects of the game etc to pull of things like example delaying a terran advance out in the open with mutas only. However basic foundations of play like its better to play vs infantry than mech still applies, as you seem to understand since you say gassteals are powerful after all. | ||
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inReacH
Sweden1612 Posts
On February 08 2009 08:28 Shauni wrote: hey inreach i want a rep of mine analyzed, if you're still not tired of this! It's also a PvT but on medusa! http://repdepot.net/replay.php?id=7544 Sorry the wc3 iccup season just started. | ||
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Shauni
4077 Posts
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inReacH
Sweden1612 Posts
One other thing I remember is that when you were in his his base with your reaver/shuttle he had a control-towerless starport that was building a unit, if you train yourself to look for that you can avoid losing shuttles to wraiths, it could have been a different game if you saw that and then immediately flew your shuttle south to start ferrying goons up to his base. | ||
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Oystein
Norway1602 Posts
On February 08 2009 08:48 inReacH wrote: I think we just disagree that sacrificing your proxy shit and an assimilator is worth forcing the terran into 2 racks. If that is your only motivation for the proxy I'd consider getting a pylon at your base before the second zealot next time you find that the terran is walling. (I really hope we can agree on that.) One other thing I remember is that when you were in his his base with your reaver/shuttle he had a control-towerless starport that was building a unit, if you train yourself to look for that you can avoid losing shuttles to wraiths, it could have been a different game if you saw that and then immediately flew your shuttle south to start ferrying goons up to his base. Why are you using such absolutes??? You CAN do lots of damage with a proxy and every now and then straight up kill the terran, USUALLY however you do SOME damage, sometimes you do NO damage and are far behind. SEVERAL things can happen when you proxygate, you seem to think its given you do no damage and lose your proxy and autolose the game afterward.... And yeah that starport thing was another mistake I did. | ||
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inReacH
Sweden1612 Posts
Half committing to multiple ways of attacking means your game is SUPER transparent, why not make him think you are sacrificing a lot to proxy him early when in reality you are sacrificing very little and instead focusing on your next attack. You played without any deception, everything he thought was the way that it was, but the fact that you were doing something else made it weak and the fact that you still half committing to what he thought you were doing meant that THE OTHER thing you were doing was not as strong or fast. It sounds like you are relying on your opponent to make a mistake to win. If you deceive and follow it up with unexpected strength then you are taking your victory rather than it being given to you. This guy could have had seige mode and a tank on the cliff by the time your goons got to him and I have no doubt that a progamer would have. | ||
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Shauni
4077 Posts
(In order for you to win, your opponent have to make mistakes. It's true even at progamer levels) | ||
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inReacH
Sweden1612 Posts
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inReacH
Sweden1612 Posts
Also in tennis there are forced and unforced errors. You can force your way to victory by manipulating your opponent. | ||
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Fontong
United States6454 Posts
Edit: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/search.php?q=&t=t&f=8&u=Fontong&gb=date It is understandable though since you are never in the threads that I contribute to. You could have just taken the compliments but you instead started arguing on the points where they criticized you, despite yourself admitting they were much smaller than the positive feedback. That is the entertaining part. | ||
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inReacH
Sweden1612 Posts
I really could care less about getting your approval, I can't recall you making a single constructive post. | ||
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Oystein
Norway1602 Posts
Is 3 hatch muta a bad build cuz there is no deception to it? And what do you mean about doing something else, should I have gone all in making forge and tried to cannonrush him because the zealotrush failed instead of rebuilding at home? How on earth could he have a tank with siege in time on cliff when I have taken his gas??????????????????? My goon was on the way when he had the 100gas needed to start a factory. How do you make him think you are focusing it all on a proxy when you are doing something else in reality?? And wtf is up with the Tennis analogy? Nadal is the nr 1 player in the world and he relies on his strong opponents to make mistake rather than trying to make winning plays himself, and still you suggest I should not do that? LOL You contradict yourself in every opportunity you get, and trying your sun tzu way of talking in the end just looks foolish when none of it makes any sense. You have clearly decided that you are right and the rest of the world is wrong an there is nothing that can change that, so I am finished with this thread since there is no point in discussing with someone chose to look away from everything that is said by others and keep preaching his own word. | ||
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