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I needed to get this off my chest because I am a huge follower of the mastery of the zerg race (the most interesting race in Starcraft), and quite naturally took great interest in following the footsteps of this zerg extraordinaire. So here's a list of reasons why Jaedong is quite possibly the most awesome player in the scene and some other things that have been on my head for quite some time.
1. He is one of the three players that won the three major tournaments (OSL, MSL and the Proleague) of the progaming scene in a single season. The other two players are Nal Ra (though his Proleague victory before its fusion with the MBC Team League) and Oov (before the introduction of the 5 day Proleague schedule).
2. He is one of the four players who have won both the OSL and the MSL. Nal Ra, Oov and Savior are the only players aside from Jaedong who have won both leagues. Boxer and Nada also boast trophies in both leagues on a technicality, but their triumphs were in KPGA tournaments.
3. He is the all time leader in 1v1 victories in the Proleague with 76 wins and 36 losses (excluding post-season matches). Only other players that have over 70 wins are Nada and Stork (73 wins 56 losses for Nada, 73 wins and 47 losses for Stork). Considering Jaedong only made his debut in 2006, this is quite a feat, although it must be admitted that the number of Proleague matches have increased greatly in recent days.
4. He is the only player to have had the most wins from his race in each round of the Proleague season for four consecutive seasons. It looks like the number is only going to get bigger since he has the most wins out of the zerg players in this round also. In fact, Jaedong has always been the top zerg player in the Proleague excluding his debut season (Savior being at the top for zerg in that particular season).
5. He has the highest “career winning rate” out of all the progamers who have played over 200 matches with 68% (counting ALL matches against progamers). Only Flash comes close with 66.4%, but he has only played 259 matches as of today compared to Jaedong’s 372 matches.
6. He is only behind Leta and Best in terms of winning percentage for Kespa officiated matches out of all the gamers who have played over 50 Kespa officiated matches. TLPD, FOMOS and YGOSU all have faulty records for Kespa officiated games (some matches that should be there are missing, some matches that shouldn’t be there are present etc), but someone in the Korean boards have gone through the trouble of individually comparing the missing/added games etc to calculate the numbers in mid-January. Out of the top 5, only Jaedong had played more than 200 matches. Out of the top 10, only Oov, Stork and Midas had played over 300 matches.
7. Someone in PGR forums compared the best players today (namely Jaedong, Flash, Bisu and Stork) and compared their numbers to the greats of the past in mid-January. For the number of games he had played by then (361 matches in all competitions against progamers), Jaedong was only bested by Nada who won 252 matches for the same number of matches compared to Jaedong’s 246 wins. Oov was third in the list with 238 wins. For comparison reasons, Flash was bested by Nada, Oov and Boxer, and was equaled by Jaedong for the number of games he had then. Only Nada had a better record for the number of games Stork had played by then, and Oov had an equal record. Bisu’s numbers were much less impressive.
8. It goes without saying, of course, that he is the greatest mirror match-up player statistically. He hasn’t really have had the chance to beef up his numbers because after the 2006 season, zerg versus zerg has been the rarest mirror match-up on television. He didn’t get much chance to prove his “clutch” performances in his favourite match-up in the latter stages of individual leagues either because of the shortage of zergs in latter stages in recent years.
9. He is one of the three zergs in the history of progaming that can boast a winning percentage that exceeds 70% against terrans over the course of a season or a year. Only the great Yellow, Savior and Jaedong himself have managed this feat.
10. From this, we can reach the conclusion that Jaedong is without doubt the best Proleague player to have ever played the game (although the fact that the Proleague had a much smaller role in the past does shorten the list greatly). He is also one of the most impressive player statistically, with consistency in winning rates only matches by Nada (who is the greatest player in the history of progaming both in terms of trophies and statistics) and perhaps Stork to a lesser extent. He “weakness”, so to speak, is his relative lack of trophies and his relative inexperience in the individual leagues. Bisu is in stark contrast to Jaedong here. Bisu is around the same age, made his debut at roughly the same period (Bisu defeated Jaedong for his progaming license I believe) and both are acknowledged in Korean boards as semi-bonjwas (along with Nal Ra and July). Their difference lies in how they have show cased their talents.
11. Bisu, who I believe is the most talented protoss player to grace the scene (I still think Nal Ra is the greater player overall, but I think Bisu has more talent) has stormed onto the scene with his never-to-be-forgotten performance in the first season of Gom MSL. He has since then managed to keep his place in both individual leagues for an amazing five consecutive times (in fact he can keep the numbers going). So far, Bisu has managed to win three times in the MSL as well as a silver to boot, and has managed two semi-final runs in the OSL. Only Nada, Oov and Savior have more individual league trophies, and he has equaled Boxer and July in terms of 1st place finishes. His weakness lies in his fluctuations in performance. One day he is beating the most powerful zerg to walk the earth convincingly in the MSL finals, only to lose a couple of days later to ChRh in a lackluster performance. His MSL performance will go down as one of the greatest in history, but his comparative lack of success in the OSL, as well as sometimes down right awful performances in the Proleague have prevented him from reaching the bonjwa status. If only Bisu could figure out a way to keep his brilliance going at a steady rate, he’d be bonjwa in no time.
12. Jaedong, on the other hand, simply does not slump. Bisu’s winning rates fluctuate from the 40s to the sky scraping 70s over the course of several months, but Jaedong’s numbers stay inhumanly consistent. The guy who researched his numbers in PGR forums mentioned that people believe Jaedong is slumping in any periods where he does not reach his usual 68% percent winning rate. When Bisu sucks, he sucks ass, but even a slumping Jaedong will be the best zerg around and a threat to even the hottest players around. Like Bisu, Jaedong does well in offline qualifiers (Bisu and Jaedong lead the winning perecentage for offline qualifying stages I believe) and side competitions such as IEF, eStars Round of 256 and Gom leagues which depend more on “natural skill” rather than the “practiced to perfection” games we see in “official matches”. Their difference in “official matches” is much greater. Jaedong only became a force to be reckoned with in the individual leagues at the very end of 2007 season, and although he has done a tremendous job of catching up (one MSL title, one runner-up finish as well as an OSL victory), he simply does not have the same caliber of performance both in terms of trophy and overall consistency that Bisu boasts in the individual leagues.
13. I personally believe Jaedong would have caught Bisu up already in terms of trophy count if the maps were as kind to him as it were for Bisu. Bisu’s fluctuations prevented him from being a bonjwa, but I believe the map pool played a large part in Jaedong’s failure to become one. The two back-to-back individual league victories, along with his trophy count came at a time when the maps were actually in favour of protosses (ex) Katrina, Loki). Add to the fact that season 2007 (the season that will probably be remembered for Jaedong’s rise to superstardom in the midst of protoss domination), was one of the better years for ZvT because of the maximized utilization of mutalisk micromanagement. Jaedong crippled terrans despite the fact that there were maps that heavily favoured terrans. What the broadcasting companies remembered, was when one zerg was so good (ex) Savior) that any half-playable map pool for the zerg, the likelihood of a ZvZ finals (disaster for the ratings) would increase quite a bit. So they forgot the fact that the map pool was already infested with protoss or terran friendly “easy to get 3 bases” macro maps that crippled zergs aside from Jaedong and introduced the “NO MORE MUTALISK MICRO FOR YOU” factor to the maps that led to… well, the worst balanced individual league in the history of progaming in terms of statistics (Jaedong had a 22.2% chance of winning against terrans according to the maps) and a Proleague season that had 112 TvT matches compared to 28 ZvZ matches, which makes the 2008 Proleague the worst balanced Proleague since the incarnation of the 5 day system. The fact that Arena MSL wasn’t so ostracized so much (take this season’s OSL where the protoss players are already flooding the table with their complaints and excuses) was because we’re used to seeing zergs get shafted by the maps. Yellow had it tough against Boxer with the god-awful maps such as Ragnarok or Symmetry of Psy, July had no chance in hell of beating Oov with the maps like Ever Forte or Pioneer Period. Hell, zergs were even expected just to “cope” with situation ever since Savior managed to actually overcome these maps to grind out a victory. So when Jaedong came all guns blazing ready to own again, he came across the biggest map disadvantage seen in modern day progaming.
14. MSL 2nd place, Gom S1 1st place and WCG Korea 1st place goes to show Jaedong’s caliber even at times of trouble, but I think Jaedong’s prime was WASTED battling against the odds. When Jaedong first came to ascension, the mighty Bisu was unable to cope with him, terrans were terrified at the sight of his mutalisks, zergs were a free pass for him and only Flash was the only “worthy” adversary although Jaedong looked quite comfortable dismantling him in a BO5. At least Savior’s battle against the map pool towards the end of his reign got him his legendary status. Jaedong had to settle for being “the best zerg”, and “could-have-been-bonjwa” with the talent he had.
15. Oov once said that you only have the chance to shine in progaming. If it’s your time, you have to do the best you can with it because it is never going to come back. Boxer did that with his micromanagement, Nada did that with his mechanics, Oov did that with his revolutions in economy management and Savior did that with his own revolutions for the zerg. Jaedong looked unstoppable, and he was taking down Bisu, Stork, Flash, Mind, Luxury and Kal with such ease that many believed it was impossible to defeat him in a standard game. His mechanics was so out of the world it was like seeing a zerg Nada (though I must admit the difference in skill between players was more apparent when Nada was in his prime). But when the map pool made sure that his mechanics alone would cripple him even against opponents he would toy with in a more balanced setting, Jaedong looked… mortal. A supreme player no doubt, but, mortal nonetheless. It wasn’t what I wanted. I felt stolen of the opportunity to se the “perfect zerg” in action. They neutered Jaedong from the “perfect zerg” to the “I use queens now!” zerg that wins against terrans every once a while doing cute things. And I don’t think he’ll ever become bonjwa even if he doesn’t slump significantly. And I blame the map makers who made those few months of glory that never return into the same old story we’ve seen and heard for years, “yeah he is the best zerg around… still gonna get raped by that terran though”.
Footnote: I wrote this yesterday (January 31st) so the results of today's Proleague matches are not taken into account.
 
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On February 01 2009 15:30 Letmelose wrote:
2. He is one of the three players who have won both the OSL and the MSL. Nal Ra and Oov are the only players aside from Jaedong who have won both leagues. I think the Savior fans disagree.
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I don't care what they say about jaedong, he's AMAZING!!!!!
Nice read btw.
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On February 01 2009 15:36 onnings wrote:Reading this instantly made me think of this; + Show Spoiler +
I actually got the idea from the cartoon. Jaedong is just too awesome not to suck up to. 
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joohyunee
Korea (South)1087 Posts
I think it's a good argument for Jaedong. I do believe that statistically, Jaedong is probably one of the best progamers ever - it is indeed his lack of trophies that makes him have less reputation as being one of the strongest players ever. I think in the end, he will become Nada#2 in all the things he will achieve throughout the years (assuming there will be a starcraft league far after SCII comes out).
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On February 01 2009 15:41 Dfgj wrote:Show nested quote +On February 01 2009 15:30 Letmelose wrote:
2. He is one of the three players who have won both the OSL and the MSL. Nal Ra and Oov are the only players aside from Jaedong who have won both leagues. I think the Savior fans disagree.
Yeah, that one isn't quite correct. However, voting 5/5 because I'm a huge JD fanboy.
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Damn you edited in paragraphs....... I read that entire thing when it was all clumped together, almost made me rip my eyes out.
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On February 01 2009 15:41 Dfgj wrote:Show nested quote +On February 01 2009 15:30 Letmelose wrote:
2. He is one of the three players who have won both the OSL and the MSL. Nal Ra and Oov are the only players aside from Jaedong who have won both leagues. I think the Savior fans disagree.
Thanks for the correction. I really shouldn't have counted out Savior out of all people, I hang my head in shame.
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Suck his dick and get it over with
+ Show Spoiler +Jk, I really respect Jaedong as a progamer after hating him for so long (I used to play toss and despised him for beating Bisu straight up) But after switching to zerg, I realize how crazy this guy's mechanics are. It's unreal.
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Yes, he is clearly the best zerg in the world and the best skill wise ever (not saying in terms of how dominant the players were at their peak or whatever).
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This is nice, it's fanboyism, but it's not the bad kind and has good arguments. Flash and fOrGG are the only terrans that I feel have truly impeded JD's path to bonjwa status. But he won't stump because he has a crazy drive to win (through his interviews) so he won't get distracted by women or alcohol.
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u kinda contradicted urself near then end when u said "he simply does not have the same caliber of performance both in terms of trophy and overall consistency that Bisu boasts. " (12) i got confused whether u were saying jd was great or something else.
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On February 01 2009 15:44 Oystein wrote:
Damn you edited in paragraphs....... I read that entire thing when it was all clumped together, almost made me rip my eyes out.
Yeah, sorry for that... as soon as I transferred the piece from MS Word, I realized it definately needed some major adjustments. I really should have thought the piece through more, but the whole thing was too damn long and I really didn't want to go back to fix things. I'm editting things bit by bit.
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United States1865 Posts
About the JD/fOrGG finals... I made the livereport thread for it and spent a shit ton of time photoshopping pictures and getting stats (did this for all the semifinal games too), and was just generally super involved in the Arena MSL.
So when I say that I was absolutely disgusted with the map pool its not something I'm saying lightly. Excluding maybe Club Day, that was easily the most frusting as hell MSL of all time because of how poor the maps were. 100% agree with your thoughts on it. Just seeing the map preview for Tiamat makes me throw up in my mouth
*edit*
Lol heres a tidbit from that thread
![[image loading]](http://i34.tinypic.com/33ykvbd.jpg)
Terran vs Zerg stats
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On February 01 2009 15:50 x89titan wrote:
u kinda contradicted urself near then end when u said "he simply does not have the same caliber of performance both in terms of trophy and overall consistency that Bisu boasts. " (12) i got confused whether u were saying jd was great or something else.
Oh, I believe Jaedong is the more consistent player on the whole. But when it comes to performances in the individual leagues, there is a very short list of gamers who can hold a candle to Bisu's trophy count and consistency.
Maybe I'll rephrase it just to make things clearer. Thanks for pointing out the contradiction.
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On February 01 2009 15:41 Dfgj wrote:Show nested quote +On February 01 2009 15:30 Letmelose wrote:
2. He is one of the three players who have won both the OSL and the MSL. Nal Ra and Oov are the only players aside from Jaedong who have won both leagues. I think the Savior fans disagree.
Boxer has won KPGA, which later became MSL and is considered (by MBC) as a real MSL league.
So Boxer has did it too.
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United States1865 Posts
On February 01 2009 16:03 Zoler wrote:Show nested quote +On February 01 2009 15:41 Dfgj wrote:On February 01 2009 15:30 Letmelose wrote:
2. He is one of the three players who have won both the OSL and the MSL. Nal Ra and Oov are the only players aside from Jaedong who have won both leagues. I think the Savior fans disagree. Boxer has won KPGA, which later became MSL and is considered (by MBC) as a real MSL league. So Boxer has did it too.
He mentions that in his post. NaDa won KPGA /// OSL too.
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On February 01 2009 15:52 Letmelose wrote:Show nested quote +On February 01 2009 15:44 Oystein wrote:
Damn you edited in paragraphs....... I read that entire thing when it was all clumped together, almost made me rip my eyes out. Yeah, sorry for that... as soon as I transferred the piece from MS Word, I realized it definately needed some major adjustments. I really should have thought the piece through more, but the whole thing was too damn long and I really didn't want to go back to fix things. I'm editting things bit by bit.
Yeah no worries I survived it, was just frustrating seeing it all neat and paragraphed after I had read through the mess it was before you edited 
And a good read.
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Saviors maps were more imba. They are only statistically better cause Savior was winning on them. lol...
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Braavos36372 Posts
On February 01 2009 16:03 Zoler wrote:Show nested quote +On February 01 2009 15:41 Dfgj wrote:On February 01 2009 15:30 Letmelose wrote:
2. He is one of the three players who have won both the OSL and the MSL. Nal Ra and Oov are the only players aside from Jaedong who have won both leagues. I think the Savior fans disagree. Boxer has won KPGA, which later became MSL and is considered (by MBC) as a real MSL league. So Boxer has did it too.
savior won both leagues, that's what he means by "savior fans disagree"
Shinhan3 OSL + 3 MSLs
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On February 01 2009 16:12 Dazed_Spy wrote:
Saviors maps were more imba. They are only statistically better cause Savior was winning on them. lol...
He's right, Savior was like the only zergs winning on the maps that were being played then. Desert Fox and shit wtf
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On February 01 2009 16:18 Hot_Bid wrote:Show nested quote +On February 01 2009 16:03 Zoler wrote:On February 01 2009 15:41 Dfgj wrote:On February 01 2009 15:30 Letmelose wrote:
2. He is one of the three players who have won both the OSL and the MSL. Nal Ra and Oov are the only players aside from Jaedong who have won both leagues. I think the Savior fans disagree. Boxer has won KPGA, which later became MSL and is considered (by MBC) as a real MSL league. So Boxer has did it too. savior won both leagues, that's what he means by "savior fans disagree" Shinhan3 OSL + 3 MSLs
I meant I'm agreeing with him, and adding that Boxer "did it too".
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United States1865 Posts
On February 01 2009 16:12 Dazed_Spy wrote:
Saviors maps were more imba. They are only statistically better cause Savior was winning on them. lol...
Not true. sAviOr's OSL run is legendary and was probably the most difficult maps ever overcome by a player to WIN a gold - but Hitchhiker and Araknoid were not that bad for Zergs (Araknoid actually favored Zerg during Shinhan 3 OSL) , and Reverse Temple / Longinus, while horrible, are not quite as bad as Colosseum \ Tiamat.
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thanks for the read and hard work. i haven't seen a tvz match in a long time cause i hate zergs, but i respect jaedong so much for his competitive fire and unyielding work ethic.
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Katowice25012 Posts
wow that was
really, really long
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On February 01 2009 16:45 gg_hertzz wrote:
unyielding work ethic.
Fucking true, jaedong is a fucking machine, and i respect him for that.
... like a machine sent from the future...
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I have waited logged in since you posted this for my ban to be lifted so I could say this.
I approve!
Great blog, I wasn't looking for proof of him being the best or not, I just had a great time reading it. Thanks!
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Nice analysis.
Although I don't like Jaedong, he is one scary progamer and his consistency is amazing. I certainly don't want any of my favorites facing him anywhere in any format. (damn you bisu always losing to jaedong!)
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you forgot
16. he's not bad looking
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Baa?21242 Posts
Tiamat...-shudder-...
Very good read. Now rampant Jaedong fanboyism has statistical justification =)
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Nice read, but I think Jaedong has only won 1 MSL?
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Reach was the first to reach 90 proleague wins...NaDa has more than 90 proleague wins now as well...
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Good facts but not well written
But yeah, I agree, Jaedong could have achieved the bonjwa status if he was able to take additional OSL and MSL blocked by Flash and Forgg
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MrHoon
10183 Posts
I know how you jaedong fans feel when Flash/ForGG kept blocking JD's path.
Same thing with Flash and GGplay 
WHY DO YOU DO THIS TO ME GGPLAY
WHYYYYY
5. He has the highest “career winning rate” out of all the progamers who have played over 200 matches with 68% (counting ALL matches against progamers). Only Flash comes close with 66.4%, but he has only played 259 matches as of today compared to Jaedong’s 372 matches.
Flash has been on the scene for 2 years now and JD has been here for 3, he is the "child labor terran" afterall. 259 matches for someone much newer to the scene that the other 3 is not 'only'
edit: durrhurr
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On February 01 2009 15:44 CDRdude wrote:Show nested quote +On February 01 2009 15:41 Dfgj wrote:On February 01 2009 15:30 Letmelose wrote:
2. He is one of the three players who have won both the OSL and the MSL. Nal Ra and Oov are the only players aside from Jaedong who have won both leagues. I think the Savior fans disagree. Yeah, that one isn't quite correct. However, voting 5/5 because I'm a huge JD fanboy.
me2, hahaha
also nice pic
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On February 01 2009 15:30 Letmelose wrote:
and although he has done a tremendous job of catching up (two MSL titles, one runner-up finish as well as an OSL victory), he simply does not have the same caliber of performance both in terms of trophy and overall consistency that Bisu boasts in the individual leagues.
Jaedong has 1, not 2, MSL titles. Also, Jaedong never won all 3 major leagues at once; his win in the MSL came in the season after his OSL win.
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Hmm...interesting thought as to why mapmakers regularly fuck zergs up the ass. Having a ZvZ final in an individual league would kill ratings, no?
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On February 01 2009 19:12 Jyvblamo wrote:Show nested quote +On February 01 2009 15:30 Letmelose wrote:
and although he has done a tremendous job of catching up (two MSL titles, one runner-up finish as well as an OSL victory), he simply does not have the same caliber of performance both in terms of trophy and overall consistency that Bisu boasts in the individual leagues.
Jaedong has 1, not 2, MSL titles. Also, Jaedong never won all 3 major leagues at once; his win in the MSL came in the season after his OSL win.
hahahaha this thing is like blablabla, JD ownz u anyway
![[image loading]](http://i37.tinypic.com/21oy1hk.png)
DancingJaedongOwnzU / MachineJaedongOwnzU
ohh yeah
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On February 01 2009 18:00 PH wrote:
Reach was the first to reach 90 proleague wins...NaDa has more than 90 proleague wins now as well...
Thats including 2v2 which Jaedong does not play.
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Once again, I'm not denying map imbalance, but it sickens me how much people discredit ForGG's win that series. He played his heart out, at least on Colosseum, and I'm a huge fan because of it.
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Baa?21242 Posts
Nothing against ForGG personally. It's just his Zerg-hate that makes me cry =O
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fOrGG has a unique TvZ style that I've never seen since I started watching BW (Ever07). He just overwhelms you with tons of marines and tanks even if his micro is average. It's a surreal experience.
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On February 01 2009 19:12 Jyvblamo wrote:Show nested quote +On February 01 2009 15:30 Letmelose wrote:
and although he has done a tremendous job of catching up (two MSL titles, one runner-up finish as well as an OSL victory), he simply does not have the same caliber of performance both in terms of trophy and overall consistency that Bisu boasts in the individual leagues.
Jaedong has 1, not 2, MSL titles. Also, Jaedong never won all 3 major leagues at once; his win in the MSL came in the season after his OSL win.
Thanks for the correction.
No player has won all three leagues simultaneously ever since the formation of the Proleague. Nada is the only player to win both individual leagues simultaneously. Jaedong's triumph in the three major competitions all happened within the 2007 season, something only Nal Ra and Oov has achieved.
Jaedong did win the three leagues within a three month period though.
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On February 01 2009 15:56 Atrioc wrote:About the JD/fOrGG finals... I made the livereport thread for it and spent a shit ton of time photoshopping pictures and getting stats (did this for all the semifinal games too), and was just generally super involved in the Arena MSL. So when I say that I was absolutely disgusted with the map pool its not something I'm saying lightly. Excluding maybe Club Day, that was easily the most frusting as hell MSL of all time because of how poor the maps were. 100% agree with your thoughts on it. Just seeing the map preview for Tiamat makes me throw up in my mouth *edit* Lol heres a tidbit from that thread Terran vs Zerg stats
Lol at the 100%. wtf is that. someone shoot whoever drew the map pool.
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On February 01 2009 20:58 Polyphasic wrote:Show nested quote +On February 01 2009 15:56 Atrioc wrote:About the JD/fOrGG finals... I made the livereport thread for it and spent a shit ton of time photoshopping pictures and getting stats (did this for all the semifinal games too), and was just generally super involved in the Arena MSL. So when I say that I was absolutely disgusted with the map pool its not something I'm saying lightly. Excluding maybe Club Day, that was easily the most frusting as hell MSL of all time because of how poor the maps were. 100% agree with your thoughts on it. Just seeing the map preview for Tiamat makes me throw up in my mouth *edit* Lol heres a tidbit from that thread Terran vs Zerg stats Lol at the 100%. wtf is that. someone shoot whoever drew the map pool.
Every one of the four maps in the pool for the MSL have to be played in a BO5. We should be happy Tiamat wasn't drawn for 1st and 5th game
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On February 01 2009 19:12 Jyvblamo wrote:Show nested quote +On February 01 2009 15:30 Letmelose wrote:
and although he has done a tremendous job of catching up (two MSL titles, one runner-up finish as well as an OSL victory), he simply does not have the same caliber of performance both in terms of trophy and overall consistency that Bisu boasts in the individual leagues.
Jaedong has 1, not 2, MSL titles. Also, Jaedong never won all 3 major leagues at once; his win in the MSL came in the season after his OSL win.
Maybe it would be better to say that Jaedong was holding 3 titles at the same time. I think he won MSL before OSL was over, so he had the MSL title, and the OSL title from the previous season before a new OSL champ was crowned
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Half these are just pointless stats, the others have major flaws
since when is kpga not considered an msl
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On February 02 2009 00:18 Hazz wrote:i have a man crush on  Jaedong (and sAviOr) They're so awesome
Pretty much every zerg does
Go Jaedong!
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MrHoon
10183 Posts
i have a crush on the twins.
But fuck yeah jd/savior
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On February 01 2009 23:48 Scaramanga wrote:
Half these are just pointless stats, the others have major flaws
since when is kpga not considered an msl
The reason why the two major individual leagues and the proleague to a lesser extent are regarded as the most important competitions is not only because they have been going on for quite some time, but because they are open competitions where any competent gamer can make his mark if he has the skills. This is why people don't regard other tournaments as importantly because they are not open to every gamer.
KPGA leagues and the MSL are not the same competition even if they were run by the same broadcasting company. There are two reasons why I differentiate between the two.
1) The 1st KPGA was an invitational tournament. Considering even less famous tournments like Ghem TV leagues and the 2nd Premier League had qualifying stages, this really does put a question mark on whether the 1st KPGA should be put on the same level as the MSL competitions that followed after.
2) I'm not sure exactly when OGN and MBC Game arranged their schedules so that they wouldn't overlap, but in its infancy, MBC Game had overlapping schedules with OGN leagues. So players had to choose between the two leagues in certain situations.
So where I do I draw the line? Do I start counting from the 1st KPGA tournament like most people do, even though it was an invitational tournament? If Gom leagues eventually become recognized as a "major competition", do I start counting from their invitational league that Flash won? If we're just counting all competitions ran by MBC Game, why don't we include the monthly tournaments that started this lineage of MBC Game leagues? Or should I start counting from the time they had separate schedules so that OGN league schedules no longer affected the participants of the league?
In my eyes, Boxer and Nada never won the MSL. Their time came before it. I believe MBC Game officially records the 1st KPGA as the first majore MBC Game tournament, but I think it's just their way of saying they've been doing the business for a long time.
It's kind of like the changes we've seen in the Proleague. I think we should be aware of the fact that Proleague used to be just one of the team leagues in the past, and the fact that the 5 day system was only introduced in 2007. So when we see the "official match statistics" and ELO points calculated from it, I believe that people should take into consideration that the system we see today has only been completed very recently. Boxer had his peak in an era where OSL and WCG is the only surviving competition of merit that survives today, Nada's peak was at a time when MBC Game just started to venture out into the progaming scene, Oov's era came when the system of "two major individual leagues" was completed but had separate team leagues, Savior had his time at the top when the trio of OSL, MSL and Proleague (in it's 3 days a week form) was completed.
The changes we've seen in the progaming scene is so great that it does make most statistics that I've listed no more useful than say, comparing ELO peaks of different progamers throughout the era. With the way things are, judging players by a certain pointing system, their trophy count or their winning percentages are never going to be an accurate method of measuring a player's greatness. That's why I've emphasized time and time again that Jaedong was "so and so... statistically speaking". The issues we have such as map balance or a player's greatness is fun to talk about because we're never going to come to the same conclusion. Statistics only tell a part of the story, fans have different opinions, even people in the field (progamers, coaches and commentators) have various opinions on these things.
I'm in no position to judge Jaedong purely from a gaming point of view, because I fear I would do him no justice and there are clearly better qualified people who can appreciate his genius more completely and share it with the rest of us. I tend to read pieces by people like Garimto, who can really go deeper into the discussion about Jaedong than I ever will be able to.
Me? I'm just your regular fan and I just wrote down some random (and ultimately useless) facts and thoughts on Jaedong because it's fun to do so. Knowing that Jaedong having the highest career winning percentage is no more useful than Flash having the highest ELO peak ever, but it's fun to share these things and discuss what they mean.
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9070 Posts
well if this is going to make you happy
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The vast majority of discussion about stats and quibbles about what counts as what or who might be better than who should be tremendously overshadowed by one major point:
Map bias against zerg in modern times is unforgivable and should be an embarrassment to the industry.
It's not enough to look back at Shinhan 3 and say "yeah man, Savior was so awesome even maps couldn't stop him." The fact that Savior was too ridiculously good to lose during that season is no excuse for the travesty that has been the map selection for basically the whole time I've been following progaming. This is a mature industry; map design is well understood. For the most part the balance issues of these maps are well-known at the time of their introduction. I appreciate innovative maps and that balance on them will be unpredictable (Arcadia, Hitchhiker, Arkanoid, Monty Hall, etc.), but limiting such unknowns to a map a season or something, and making sure at least most of the map pool is decently balanced, is easily achievable.
I'm not particularly a Jaedong fan, but man was Jaedong robbed. I mean for his career, not just that one finals. But speaking of the finals, Jaedong was robbed by maps there too. And for that matter, so was ForGG. Why do you think people discredit his win?
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is awesome32269 Posts
Very entertaining read. Thanks : ]
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JDJDJDJDJDJJDJDJDJDJJDDD
neo-Savior
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BISU WILL RAPE SHIT UP
BISU FOR THE OSL/GOM WIN
NEXT BONJWA
JD HAS NOTHING ON HIM NIGAAAAHHH
BISU > SAVIOR > JAEDONG > FLASH > STORK
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More stats
JD vs bisu 4-2
stork 6-4 (with the games from wcg)
JangBi 2-0 or (4-0 with gomTv I belive)
Free 6-7
Best 4-2
Kal 4-3
Flash 10-6 (with gom finals inkluded)
Leta 1-0
ForGG 0-3
UpMagiC 6-1
The Berserker 2-0
Mind 3-4
FBH 0-2
Fantasy 1-0
Hwasin 5-4
Light 6-3
Sea 5-4
Nada 4-1
YellOw 1-1? (acording to tlpd, but I do think they have encounter at least 2 times more).
Luxury 5-2
Effort 1-0
The "BIG" July 1-1
Savior 2-2
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United States8068 Posts
the only reason I believe JD loses most of the games he loses is because of overconfidence. He will get overconfident in a game (like if he gets ahead) and make a really dumb decision and totally blow his lead (such as vs Kal on andromeda the group of 12 lurkers wtf).
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On February 02 2009 04:51 Ideas wrote:
the only reason I believe JD loses most of the games he loses is because of overconfidence. He will get overconfident in a game (like if he gets ahead) and make a really dumb decision and totally blow his lead (such as vs Kal on andromeda the group of 12 lurkers wtf).
No, it must've been like eighteen T_T. That made me cry.
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On February 01 2009 15:42 joohyunee wrote:
I think it's a good argument for Jaedong. I do believe that statistically, Jaedong is probably one of the best progamers ever - it is indeed his lack of trophies that makes him have less reputation as being one of the strongest players ever. I think in the end, he will become Nada#2 in all the things he will achieve throughout the years (assuming there will be a starcraft league far after SCII comes out).
Dude i think that SC2 will basically replace Starcraft leagues after 8 months of its release. The only hing peoplea re worriedf about right now is MBS and Austmine, but the fans are fixing that right now with all these contests.
So just wait
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very nice read =] It's very fanboy-like, which I'm usually against but I love jaedong so it's ok for this 5/5
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Great post. I think anyone would be hard-pressed to prove that Jaedong is not the best player in the world. When it comes to pure talent, determination, and consistency, no one can match him.
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On February 02 2009 03:22 DreaM)XeRO wrote:
BISU WILL RAPE SHIT UP
BISU FOR THE OSL/GOM WIN
NEXT BONJWA
JD HAS NOTHING ON HIM NIGAAAAHHH
BISU > SAVIOR > JAEDONG > FLASH > STORK
HOW DARE U SAY THIS IN JAEDONG"S THREAD
INTRUDER!!!
oh and: Jaedong > Bisu, simple as that
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EPT![[image loading]](http://i44.tinypic.com/mwe7pf.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://i166.photobucket.com/albums/u106/jodogohoo/19187.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://i436.photobucket.com/albums/qq83/monsuey/jdbackcopy.jpg)
