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More and more I find there is a trend developing among Christian girls.
I was "talking" seriously with a girl for a long time, a devout Christian. We dated all year, and up into August. Our differing faiths(I'm an agnostic/atheist) were never a point of contention. However, her mother just shared with me that "until [we] share a faith in Jesus Christ there will never be anything substantial as a relationship."
Woow. That pisses me off. Why is it that since I don't believe in the same deity as these women I'm suddenly inferior? Nor is this the first time I've experienced such bigotry! It's happened on at least three different separate occasions. What the hell?
 
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On September 08 2008 12:06 Track wrote:
More and more I find there is a trend developing among Christian girls.
I was "talking" seriously with a girl for a long time, a devout Christian. We dated all year, and up into August. Our differing faiths(I'm an agnostic/atheist) were never a point of contention. However, her mother just shared with me that "until [we] share a faith in Jesus Christ there will never be anything substantial as a relationship."
Woow. That pisses me off. Why is it that since I don't believe in the same deity as these women I'm suddenly inferior? Nor is this the first time I've experienced such bigotry! It's happened on at least three different separate occasions. What the hell?
implicit in most religious teachings is the belief that the follows are some how better than the non followers.
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On September 08 2008 12:10 Mastermind wrote:Show nested quote +On September 08 2008 12:06 Track wrote:
More and more I find there is a trend developing among Christian girls.
I was "talking" seriously with a girl for a long time, a devout Christian. We dated all year, and up into August. Our differing faiths(I'm an agnostic/atheist) were never a point of contention. However, her mother just shared with me that "until [we] share a faith in Jesus Christ there will never be anything substantial as a relationship."
Woow. That pisses me off. Why is it that since I don't believe in the same deity as these women I'm suddenly inferior? Nor is this the first time I've experienced such bigotry! It's happened on at least three different separate occasions. What the hell? implicit in most religious teachings is the belief that the follows are some how better than the non followers.
If by "most", you mean Christianity and Islam, then yes.
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yea my gf almost broke up with me over our different beliefs. ( same boat as you )
we got past it but i know it is hard for her......it sucks that something as simple as skepticism can fuck up so many relationships with so many people;/
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They don't want their daughter dating a hell-bound heathen, can you really blame them?
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Eh? If you get in a serious relationship and get married and she wants to go to church with you, and if you have kids that want to go to church are you going to?
I find it just makes things complicated if you don't share the same faith or similar views to the person you're in a relationship with. It's very easy to get into arguments when you have conflicting viewpoints especially if she's pretty strong/adamant about her faith.
I don't think it's bigotry or anything like that.. more along the lines of knowing what you want in a potential mate. Bible even talks about this if you didn't know. I personally would not want to subject myself to potential big arguments on such a topic which is why I tend to avoid people who don't hold the same views as me when looking for a relationship.
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On September 08 2008 12:13 Meta wrote:
They don't want their daughter dating a hell-bound heathen, can you really blame them?
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On September 08 2008 12:15 eshlow wrote:
Eh? If you get in a serious relationship and get married and she wants to go to church with you, and if you have kids that want to go to church are you going to?
I find it just makes things complicated if you don't share the same faith or similar views to the person you're in a relationship with. It's very easy to get into arguments when you have conflicting viewpoints especially if she's pretty strong/adamant about her faith.
I don't think it's bigotry or anything like that.. more along the lines of knowing what you want in a potential mate. Bible even talks about this if you didn't know. I personally would not want to subject myself to potential big arguments on such a topic which is why I tend to avoid people who don't hold the same views as me when looking for a relationship.
Yeah, and not to look too ahead in your future but eshlow is right, it could and probably will make your relationship harder, not saying you should convert because of your gf cuz thats just wrong.
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On September 08 2008 12:13 Meta wrote:
They don't want their daughter dating a hell-bound heathen, can you really blame them?
Strongly disagree. If her parents really think that then they're retarded.
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My rule is to generally avoid any hardcore religious women, because of the problems it can cause with me being an atheist.
+ Show Spoiler +That, and the whole thing about being married before sex. There. I said it.
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On September 08 2008 12:18 eshlow wrote:Show nested quote +On September 08 2008 12:13 Meta wrote:
They don't want their daughter dating a hell-bound heathen, can you really blame them? Strongly disagree. If her parents really think that then they're retarded.
A majority of people in the world really do believe this, and I think that it's pretty close-minded of you to call them retarded.
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United States22883 Posts
On September 08 2008 12:15 eshlow wrote:
Eh? If you get in a serious relationship and get married and she wants to go to church with you, and if you have kids that want to go to church are you going to?
I find it just makes things complicated if you don't share the same faith or similar views to the person you're in a relationship with. It's very easy to get into arguments when you have conflicting viewpoints especially if she's pretty strong/adamant about her faith.
I don't think it's bigotry or anything like that.. more along the lines of knowing what you want in a potential mate. Bible even talks about this if you didn't know. I personally would not want to subject myself to potential big arguments on such a topic which is why I tend to avoid people who don't hold the same views as me when looking for a relationship.
Pluralism is a pretty common thing in many churches these days, so it's really not that big of an issue unless they're extremely conservative.
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On September 08 2008 12:20 Meta wrote:Show nested quote +On September 08 2008 12:18 eshlow wrote:On September 08 2008 12:13 Meta wrote:
They don't want their daughter dating a hell-bound heathen, can you really blame them? Strongly disagree. If her parents really think that then they're retarded. A majority of people in the world really do believe this, and I think that it's pretty close-minded of you to call them retarded.
Is it (well, I suppose it is  )?
Is it right for a lot of Christians to tell people who are non-believers that they're going to hell in attempts to convert them... when Jesus says love your neighbor as yourself?
All I'm trying to say is that some people are irrational regardless of what they believe. Being associated with one group or another or even being married to a non-Christian is not going to make someone a heathen or go to hell. I think that's more "close minded" than me calling that belief retarded. Just because a lot of people believe it doesn't make it true or right or anything like that.
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Pluralism is still generally fairly liberal, most of the churches take a line against it afaik. In all honestly though, eshlow is right, it doesn't make much sense to be in a relationship if the two cannot reconcile on an issue that is deemed major.
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On September 08 2008 12:21 Jibba wrote:Show nested quote +On September 08 2008 12:15 eshlow wrote:
Eh? If you get in a serious relationship and get married and she wants to go to church with you, and if you have kids that want to go to church are you going to?
I find it just makes things complicated if you don't share the same faith or similar views to the person you're in a relationship with. It's very easy to get into arguments when you have conflicting viewpoints especially if she's pretty strong/adamant about her faith.
I don't think it's bigotry or anything like that.. more along the lines of knowing what you want in a potential mate. Bible even talks about this if you didn't know. I personally would not want to subject myself to potential big arguments on such a topic which is why I tend to avoid people who don't hold the same views as me when looking for a relationship. Pluralism is a pretty common thing in many churches these days, so it's really not that big of an issue unless they're extremely conservative.
IMO that's probably one of the reasons for high divorce rates in the church. If you don't have your wife/husband believe the same thing you do it's going to be rough on your marriage.
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Christians are almost always very misleaded, such as
"Is it right for a lot of Christians to tell people who are non-believers that they're going to hell in attempts to convert them... when Jesus says love your neighbor as yourself?"
Christians dont quite understand to have a gentle saying, instead of an almost "hypocrite" sort of talking -.-
:edit: does that make any sense?
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Kennigit
Canada19447 Posts
On September 08 2008 12:34 Folca wrote:
Christians are almost always very misleaded, such as
"Is it right for a lot of Christians to tell people who are non-believers that they're going to hell in attempts to convert them... when Jesus says love your neighbor as yourself?"
Christians dont quite understand to have a gentle saying, instead of an almost "hypocrite" sort of talking -.-
:edit: does that make any sense?
Keep your generalized bullshit comments to yourself
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United States22883 Posts
On September 08 2008 12:26 Ecael wrote:
Pluralism is still generally fairly liberal, most of the churches take a line against it afaik. In all honestly though, eshlow is right, it doesn't make much sense to be in a relationship if the two cannot reconcile on an issue that is deemed major.
Most of what churches? There's at least 3 major divisions in the US alone, and only 1 is particularly hard line. It really depends on the type of person.
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Kennigit
Canada19447 Posts
On September 08 2008 12:12 Mindcrime wrote:Show nested quote +On September 08 2008 12:10 Mastermind wrote:On September 08 2008 12:06 Track wrote:
More and more I find there is a trend developing among Christian girls.
I was "talking" seriously with a girl for a long time, a devout Christian. We dated all year, and up into August. Our differing faiths(I'm an agnostic/atheist) were never a point of contention. However, her mother just shared with me that "until [we] share a faith in Jesus Christ there will never be anything substantial as a relationship."
Woow. That pisses me off. Why is it that since I don't believe in the same deity as these women I'm suddenly inferior? Nor is this the first time I've experienced such bigotry! It's happened on at least three different separate occasions. What the hell? implicit in most religious teachings is the belief that the follows are some how better than the non followers. If by "most", you mean Christianity and Islam, then yes.
Christianity, Islam and Judaism...its because they all follow the teachings of abraham. essentially they are all the same with a few tweaks.
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On September 08 2008 12:38 Kennigit wrote:Show nested quote +On September 08 2008 12:34 Folca wrote:
Christians are almost always very misleaded, such as
"Is it right for a lot of Christians to tell people who are non-believers that they're going to hell in attempts to convert them... when Jesus says love your neighbor as yourself?"
Christians dont quite understand to have a gentle saying, instead of an almost "hypocrite" sort of talking -.-
:edit: does that make any sense? Keep your generalized bullshit comments to yourself
I'll take that as a yes
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this might be kind of out of line
but ive found that women are more naturally brought up to be conformative and not question as many things (obviously this isnt the case for all women, but id say the majority (IE MORE THAN HALF FROM PERSONAL EXPERIENCE)) so with something like religion, be prepared to deal with stuff like this.
For some reason they like to limit their pool of guys based on religion.....its their loss...
and yours =(. Shes probably a dumb bitch anyway!
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CA10828 Posts
On September 08 2008 12:06 Track wrote:
More and more I find there is a trend developing among Christian girls.
I was "talking" seriously with a girl for a long time, a devout Christian. We dated all year, and up into August. Our differing faiths(I'm an agnostic/atheist) were never a point of contention. However, her mother just shared with me that "until [we] share a faith in Jesus Christ there will never be anything substantial as a relationship."
Woow. That pisses me off. Why is it that since I don't believe in the same deity as these women I'm suddenly inferior? Nor is this the first time I've experienced such bigotry! It's happened on at least three different separate occasions. What the hell?
it's not a matter of being inferior, it's an irreconcilable difference.
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Kennigit
Canada19447 Posts
On September 08 2008 12:47 LosingID8 wrote:Show nested quote +On September 08 2008 12:06 Track wrote:
More and more I find there is a trend developing among Christian girls.
I was "talking" seriously with a girl for a long time, a devout Christian. We dated all year, and up into August. Our differing faiths(I'm an agnostic/atheist) were never a point of contention. However, her mother just shared with me that "until [we] share a faith in Jesus Christ there will never be anything substantial as a relationship."
Woow. That pisses me off. Why is it that since I don't believe in the same deity as these women I'm suddenly inferior? Nor is this the first time I've experienced such bigotry! It's happened on at least three different separate occasions. What the hell? it's not a matter of being inferior, it's an irreconcilable difference.
This.
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On September 08 2008 12:39 Kennigit wrote:Show nested quote +On September 08 2008 12:12 Mindcrime wrote:On September 08 2008 12:10 Mastermind wrote:On September 08 2008 12:06 Track wrote:
More and more I find there is a trend developing among Christian girls.
I was "talking" seriously with a girl for a long time, a devout Christian. We dated all year, and up into August. Our differing faiths(I'm an agnostic/atheist) were never a point of contention. However, her mother just shared with me that "until [we] share a faith in Jesus Christ there will never be anything substantial as a relationship."
Woow. That pisses me off. Why is it that since I don't believe in the same deity as these women I'm suddenly inferior? Nor is this the first time I've experienced such bigotry! It's happened on at least three different separate occasions. What the hell? implicit in most religious teachings is the belief that the follows are some how better than the non followers. If by "most", you mean Christianity and Islam, then yes. Christianity, Islam and Judaism...its because they all follow the teachings of abraham. essentially they are all the same with a few tweaks.
Judaism isn't quite on the same level as Islam and Christianity here. Judaism doesn't proselytize and Judaism doesn't claim that following its 613 Mitzvot is the only path to righteousness.
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I think the annoying thing is that its an irreconcilable difference for one side
I know as an atheist, I wouldnt refuse to date/marry a girl because she was christian, but it certainly doesnt work the same way in reverse
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On September 08 2008 12:39 Folca wrote:Show nested quote +On September 08 2008 12:38 Kennigit wrote:On September 08 2008 12:34 Folca wrote:
Christians are almost always very misleaded, such as
"Is it right for a lot of Christians to tell people who are non-believers that they're going to hell in attempts to convert them... when Jesus says love your neighbor as yourself?"
Christians dont quite understand to have a gentle saying, instead of an almost "hypocrite" sort of talking -.-
:edit: does that make any sense? Keep your generalized bullshit comments to yourself I'll take that as a yes
i agrreee
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On September 08 2008 12:39 Folca wrote:Show nested quote +On September 08 2008 12:38 Kennigit wrote:On September 08 2008 12:34 Folca wrote:
Christians are almost always very misleaded, such as
"Is it right for a lot of Christians to tell people who are non-believers that they're going to hell in attempts to convert them... when Jesus says love your neighbor as yourself?"
Christians dont quite understand to have a gentle saying, instead of an almost "hypocrite" sort of talking -.-
:edit: does that make any sense? Keep your generalized bullshit comments to yourself I'll take that as a yes
Lol. How do you not see what you originally said as a blatant generalization, something with no merit whatsoever?
"Christians don't quite understand--" epic fail.
Also, the "love your neighbor as yourself" hypocrisy argue fails when you realize that, the Christian is trying to save the person, something you'd do for yourself. So, it falls under love. Also a pretty epic fail.
Don't generalize. Trust me, There are Catholic and Christians that very well understand this, from every angle.
As for the OP, It's sad but it's true, and actually quite legitimate.
A lot of people don't want to date people who aren't of the same faith. It's not that odd or wrong in anyway. It's personal preference. Like not dating a smoker. Would you date a muslim? Maybe. Maybe not. I know that as an American there are a lot of skewed vision of Islam floating around, so you might be reserved there. A lot of Americans wouldn't.. how's that very different? (Not a drastic generalization because of the qualifier.)
Some people can't get past certain beliefs, and some people feel more comfortable with people of the same belief. When you're choosing to commit yourself to someone, it's good to assure yourself a deep connection, a deeper connection than you can find somewhere else. The fact that you don't share the faith means that you are missing out on a very powerful connection.
That's not my way of saying you're wrong for not being Christian. Faith, being the most powerful force in the world, has so much power within it, that when you share it with someone, nomatter what the faith is, it's incredibly powerful. It allows you two to connect on a spiritual level aswell.
Anyway, that's my opinion. It happens, and it sorta sucks for you... but it's not wrong.
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On September 08 2008 12:47 LosingID8 wrote:Show nested quote +On September 08 2008 12:06 Track wrote:
More and more I find there is a trend developing among Christian girls.
I was "talking" seriously with a girl for a long time, a devout Christian. We dated all year, and up into August. Our differing faiths(I'm an agnostic/atheist) were never a point of contention. However, her mother just shared with me that "until [we] share a faith in Jesus Christ there will never be anything substantial as a relationship."
Woow. That pisses me off. Why is it that since I don't believe in the same deity as these women I'm suddenly inferior? Nor is this the first time I've experienced such bigotry! It's happened on at least three different separate occasions. What the hell? it's not a matter of being inferior, it's an irreconcilable difference.
Fuck, his post is just perfect and 1 sentence. I totally got pwned.
Anyway, This.
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On September 08 2008 12:20 Meta wrote:Show nested quote +On September 08 2008 12:18 eshlow wrote:On September 08 2008 12:13 Meta wrote:
They don't want their daughter dating a hell-bound heathen, can you really blame them? Strongly disagree. If her parents really think that then they're retarded. A majority of people in the world really do believe this, and I think that it's pretty close-minded of you to call them retarded.
Well I have to disagree with you. It just means that a majority of the world, for lack of a better word, are retarded, conforming, stupid, followers.
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On September 08 2008 13:12 Jonoman92 wrote:Show nested quote +On September 08 2008 12:20 Meta wrote:On September 08 2008 12:18 eshlow wrote:On September 08 2008 12:13 Meta wrote:
They don't want their daughter dating a hell-bound heathen, can you really blame them? Strongly disagree. If her parents really think that then they're retarded. A majority of people in the world really do believe this, and I think that it's pretty close-minded of you to call them retarded. Well I have to disagree with you. It just means that a majority of the world, for lack of a better word, are retarded, conforming, stupid, followers.
In your opinion, yes.
Regardless, in their mind and according to their religion, he would be going to Hell. Logically, why would they want their daughter to date a man that they believe is Hell bound?
It doesn't matter whether you agree with it or not, but that is where they are coming from logically.
My advice for the OP is that you should talk to your girlfriend and let her make the decision, not her parents making it for her.
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On September 08 2008 13:18 Salv wrote:Show nested quote +On September 08 2008 13:12 Jonoman92 wrote:On September 08 2008 12:20 Meta wrote:On September 08 2008 12:18 eshlow wrote:On September 08 2008 12:13 Meta wrote:
They don't want their daughter dating a hell-bound heathen, can you really blame them? Strongly disagree. If her parents really think that then they're retarded. A majority of people in the world really do believe this, and I think that it's pretty close-minded of you to call them retarded. Well I have to disagree with you. It just means that a majority of the world, for lack of a better word, are retarded, conforming, stupid, followers. In your opinion, yes. Regardless, in their mind and according to their religion, he would be going to Hell. Logically, why would they want their daughter to date a man that they believe is Hell bound? It doesn't matter whether you agree with it or not, but that is where they are coming from logically. My advice for the OP is that you should talk to your girlfriend and let her make the decision, not her parents making it for her.
I agree with this. I don't know how old you are, but I assume she's old enough that it's entirely her decision. What you have to also understand though, is that if her decision is to listen to her parents, that is her decision.
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On September 08 2008 13:26 Nintu wrote:
What you have to also understand though, is that if her decision is to listen to her parents, that is her decision.
Very true.
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On September 08 2008 13:08 Nintu wrote:Also, the "love your neighbor as yourself" hypocrisy argue fails when you realize that, the Christian is trying to save the person, something you'd do for yourself. So, it falls under love. Also a pretty epic fail.
Don't generalize. Trust me, There are Catholic and Christians that very well understand this, from every angle.
Well, apparently most people didn't get the memo that saying something negative ("you're going to hell if you don't believe in Jesus") is generally not a good way to proselytize...
In fact, I don't recall any proselytization in the NT where Jesus said anything remotely similar; the majority if not all the time he treated people with kindness & respect or healed them and then invited them to come follow him..
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It's more like the Bible states two persons become ONE when they reconcile in marrige. And if the person that is Christian, in this case her, means her faith is the most important thing in her life, if this cannot be shared or understood by the one person that she is gonna share the rest of her life, and become one with, what is the point of getting married? This is what most christians look forward too, sharing their personal prayer life and religous life with their partner.
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Amazing, this was such great fodder for a religion war but it didn't erupt. Cool stuff. Anyways, your dilemma with that girl's mom is the same for about 65% of all guys or girls where the other's parents have some beef whether its race, money, or for your case, religion. Its a common occurrence that most of the time works out fine. Also, to solve problems with your gf's mom, you can just lie or say you want to become a Christian if you are willing to trick people and God for love.
I must say though that a lot of people I know have followed girls into churches and became Christians and then subsequently break up, leaving him as Christians but no girl friend, a horrible experience.
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On September 08 2008 13:39 ThePhan2m wrote:
It's more like the Bible states two persons become ONE when they reconcile in marrige. And if the person that is Christian, in this case her, means her faith is the most important thing in her life, if this cannot be shared or understood by the one person that she is gonna share the rest of her life, and become one with, what is the point of getting married? This is what most christians look forward too, sharing their personal prayer life and religous life with their partner.
QFT. Well put. Very true and accurate.
This is what most christians look forward too, sharing their personal prayer life and religous life with their partner. Exactly.
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dated this girl 3 years, from day 1 i asked her if religion would be an issue: "No" was always the answer.
we end up going to same college she joins some christian group, in 5 weeks she dumps me because i am not one who believes.
it sucks hard, i can assure you. but as people have stated this post, religion is a big part of their lives and being able to share it is VERY important to them.
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What you said is true but I think you do not have to worry or get pissed off. In fact I believe you can rejoice since you now free to find someone who upholds the same values as you. Everyone has different personal values (even among Christians!). Relationship thrive on agreement. The higher the level of agreement, the more important and stronger the relationship. To Christians, the marriage relationship is 2nd most important other than God, so I am not surprise your friend's mother reacted that way.
Being a Christian is the basic prerequisite when it comes to choosing a potential spouse. It has never been a trend. Generally this advice is a classic safeguard for younger maturing Christians looking for deeper relationships beyond friendship. Naturally your friend's mother wants to be defensive, so stay cool even if she said all that. Besides, you are more likely to impress her by staying cool than to be angry. But it is not the means to the end. Christian or non-Christian, ultimately the couple must work on agreeing major life values with each other. There are situations when 'that irreconcilable difference' was resolved, but the chances are pretty remote as far as I know.
Of coz, its also not about atheists being less superior than Christians. I have known people who are non-Christians and they uphold their own values just as highly as mine. I respect them as people and a couple of them are even my friends. I am a very close long time friend to a girl who is a atheist and we uphold each other with genuine respect. Despite of differences, both of us know exactly the type of partner we want. She currently has a boyfriend and I have my targets (she's not in my list). We even help each other (LOL)
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On September 08 2008 13:34 eshlow wrote:Show nested quote +On September 08 2008 13:08 Nintu wrote:Also, the "love your neighbor as yourself" hypocrisy argue fails when you realize that, the Christian is trying to save the person, something you'd do for yourself. So, it falls under love. Also a pretty epic fail.
Don't generalize. Trust me, There are Catholic and Christians that very well understand this, from every angle. Well, apparently most people didn't get the memo that saying something negative ("you're going to hell if you don't believe in Jesus") is generally not a good way to proselytize... In fact, I don't recall any proselytization in the NT where Jesus said anything remotely similar; the majority if not all the time he treated people with kindness & respect or healed them and then invited them to come follow him..
I think the point is the person saying you're going to hell is not doing it out of spite/anger, but rather out of love. Kinda like a parent telling his kids you're going to get cavities if you dont brush your teeth. Its more of a "I care about you so I'm warning you, even if you don't really want to hear it" sort of thing.
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On September 08 2008 14:28 pokeyAA wrote:Show nested quote +On September 08 2008 13:34 eshlow wrote:On September 08 2008 13:08 Nintu wrote:Also, the "love your neighbor as yourself" hypocrisy argue fails when you realize that, the Christian is trying to save the person, something you'd do for yourself. So, it falls under love. Also a pretty epic fail.
Don't generalize. Trust me, There are Catholic and Christians that very well understand this, from every angle. Well, apparently most people didn't get the memo that saying something negative ("you're going to hell if you don't believe in Jesus") is generally not a good way to proselytize... In fact, I don't recall any proselytization in the NT where Jesus said anything remotely similar; the majority if not all the time he treated people with kindness & respect or healed them and then invited them to come follow him.. I think the point is the person saying you're going to hell is not doing it out of spite/anger, but rather out of love. Kinda like a parent telling his kids you're going to get cavities if you dont brush your teeth. Its more of a "I care about you so I'm warning you, even if you don't really want to hear it" sort of thing.
Yeah but i think it's not the right aproach, i mean they can't turn into christianity only by fear.
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Why would you want to be with someone who had different beliefs as yourself anyways? I mean.. There would be like no unity between you. It'd just be awkward. It would have happened sooner or later anyways.
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Just make her so wet in her panties that she leaves religion for you.
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On September 08 2008 14:19 NeverTheEndlessWiz wrote:
What you said is true but I think you do not have to worry or get pissed off. In fact I believe you can rejoice since you now free to find someone who upholds the same values as you. Everyone has different personal values (even among Christians!). Relationship thrive on agreement. The higher the level of agreement, the more important and stronger the relationship. To Christians, the marriage relationship is 2nd most important other than God, so I am not surprise your friend's mother reacted that way.
Being a Christian is the basic prerequisite when it comes to choosing a potential spouse. It has never been a trend. Generally this advice is a classic safeguard for younger maturing Christians looking for deeper relationships beyond friendship. Naturally your friend's mother wants to be defensive, so stay cool even if she said all that. Besides, you are more likely to impress her by staying cool than to be angry. But it is not the means to the end. Christian or non-Christian, ultimately the couple must work on agreeing major life values with each other. There are situations when 'that irreconcilable difference' was resolved, but the chances are pretty remote as far as I know.
Of coz, its also not about atheists being less superior than Christians. I have known people who are non-Christians and they uphold their own values just as highly as mine. I respect them as people and a couple of them are even my friends. I am a very close long time friend to a girl who is a atheist and we uphold each other with genuine respect. Despite of differences, both of us know exactly the type of partner we want. She currently has a boyfriend and I have my targets (she's not in my list). We even help each other (LOL)
Great post man.
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On September 08 2008 14:28 pokeyAA wrote:Show nested quote +On September 08 2008 13:34 eshlow wrote:On September 08 2008 13:08 Nintu wrote:Also, the "love your neighbor as yourself" hypocrisy argue fails when you realize that, the Christian is trying to save the person, something you'd do for yourself. So, it falls under love. Also a pretty epic fail.
Don't generalize. Trust me, There are Catholic and Christians that very well understand this, from every angle. Well, apparently most people didn't get the memo that saying something negative ("you're going to hell if you don't believe in Jesus") is generally not a good way to proselytize... In fact, I don't recall any proselytization in the NT where Jesus said anything remotely similar; the majority if not all the time he treated people with kindness & respect or healed them and then invited them to come follow him.. I think the point is the person saying you're going to hell is not doing it out of spite/anger, but rather out of love. Kinda like a parent telling his kids you're going to get cavities if you dont brush your teeth. Its more of a "I care about you so I'm warning you, even if you don't really want to hear it" sort of thing.
Hahaha...let's be honest. How many of those people who preach fire and brimstone are actually saying it out of true love? I grew up in church (and am a Christian) but I have to say, I always thought it was bullshit when people said that. It is extremely rare (and I have never seen it) to see someone actually tell someone that they are going to hell out of love. Most of the time it's just a foolish attempt at convincing another person to believe what you believe.
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If you need to believe in God to make up for your insecurities as a human being, then by all means...
And yes, I'm going to Hell. Can somebody point me in the right direction please? I think it's down (?).
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On September 08 2008 13:08 Nintu wrote:Show nested quote +On September 08 2008 12:39 Folca wrote:On September 08 2008 12:38 Kennigit wrote:On September 08 2008 12:34 Folca wrote:
Christians are almost always very misleaded, such as
"Is it right for a lot of Christians to tell people who are non-believers that they're going to hell in attempts to convert them... when Jesus says love your neighbor as yourself?"
Christians dont quite understand to have a gentle saying, instead of an almost "hypocrite" sort of talking -.-
:edit: does that make any sense? Keep your generalized bullshit comments to yourself I'll take that as a yes Lol. How do you not see what you originally said as a blatant generalization, something with no merit whatsoever? "Christians don't quite understand--" epic fail. Also, the "love your neighbor as yourself" hypocrisy argue fails when you realize that, the Christian is trying to save the person, something you'd do for yourself. So, it falls under love. Also a pretty epic fail. Don't generalize. Trust me, There are Catholic and Christians that very well understand this, from every angle. As for the OP, It's sad but it's true, and actually quite legitimate. A lot of people don't want to date people who aren't of the same faith. It's not that odd or wrong in anyway. It's personal preference. Like not dating a smoker. Would you date a muslim? Maybe. Maybe not. I know that as an American there are a lot of skewed vision of Islam floating around, so you might be reserved there. A lot of Americans wouldn't.. how's that very different? (Not a drastic generalization because of the qualifier.) Some people can't get past certain beliefs, and some people feel more comfortable with people of the same belief. When you're choosing to commit yourself to someone, it's good to assure yourself a deep connection, a deeper connection than you can find somewhere else. The fact that you don't share the faith means that you are missing out on a very powerful connection. That's not my way of saying you're wrong for not being Christian. Faith, being the most powerful force in the world, has so much power within it, that when you share it with someone, nomatter what the faith is, it's incredibly powerful. It allows you two to connect on a spiritual level aswell. Anyway, that's my opinion. It happens, and it sorta sucks for you... but it's not wrong.
In your humble opinion. Never state anything as arrogant or naive as that as fact.
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On September 08 2008 16:25 Romance_us wrote:Show nested quote +On September 08 2008 13:08 Nintu wrote:On September 08 2008 12:39 Folca wrote:On September 08 2008 12:38 Kennigit wrote:On September 08 2008 12:34 Folca wrote:
Christians are almost always very misleaded, such as
"Is it right for a lot of Christians to tell people who are non-believers that they're going to hell in attempts to convert them... when Jesus says love your neighbor as yourself?"
Christians dont quite understand to have a gentle saying, instead of an almost "hypocrite" sort of talking -.-
:edit: does that make any sense? Keep your generalized bullshit comments to yourself I'll take that as a yes Lol. How do you not see what you originally said as a blatant generalization, something with no merit whatsoever? "Christians don't quite understand--" epic fail. Also, the "love your neighbor as yourself" hypocrisy argue fails when you realize that, the Christian is trying to save the person, something you'd do for yourself. So, it falls under love. Also a pretty epic fail. Don't generalize. Trust me, There are Catholic and Christians that very well understand this, from every angle. As for the OP, It's sad but it's true, and actually quite legitimate. A lot of people don't want to date people who aren't of the same faith. It's not that odd or wrong in anyway. It's personal preference. Like not dating a smoker. Would you date a muslim? Maybe. Maybe not. I know that as an American there are a lot of skewed vision of Islam floating around, so you might be reserved there. A lot of Americans wouldn't.. how's that very different? (Not a drastic generalization because of the qualifier.) Some people can't get past certain beliefs, and some people feel more comfortable with people of the same belief. When you're choosing to commit yourself to someone, it's good to assure yourself a deep connection, a deeper connection than you can find somewhere else. The fact that you don't share the faith means that you are missing out on a very powerful connection. That's not my way of saying you're wrong for not being Christian. Faith, being the most powerful force in the world, has so much power within it, that when you share it with someone, nomatter what the faith is, it's incredibly powerful. It allows you two to connect on a spiritual level aswell. Anyway, that's my opinion. It happens, and it sorta sucks for you... but it's not wrong. In your humble opinion. Never state anything as arrogant or naive as that as fact.
He said it was is opinion.....did he forget the word "humble"?
lol
+ Show Spoiler +On September 08 2008 12:38 Kennigit wrote:Show nested quote +On September 08 2008 12:34 Folca wrote:
Christians are almost always very misleaded, such as
"Is it right for a lot of Christians to tell people who are non-believers that they're going to hell in attempts to convert them... when Jesus says love your neighbor as yourself?"
Christians dont quite understand to have a gentle saying, instead of an almost "hypocrite" sort of talking -.-
:edit: does that make any sense? Keep your generalized bullshit comments to yourself On September 08 2008 12:39 Kennigit wrote:Show nested quote +On September 08 2008 12:12 Mindcrime wrote:On September 08 2008 12:10 Mastermind wrote:On September 08 2008 12:06 Track wrote:
More and more I find there is a trend developing among Christian girls.
I was "talking" seriously with a girl for a long time, a devout Christian. We dated all year, and up into August. Our differing faiths(I'm an agnostic/atheist) were never a point of contention. However, her mother just shared with me that "until [we] share a faith in Jesus Christ there will never be anything substantial as a relationship."
Woow. That pisses me off. Why is it that since I don't believe in the same deity as these women I'm suddenly inferior? Nor is this the first time I've experienced such bigotry! It's happened on at least three different separate occasions. What the hell? implicit in most religious teachings is the belief that the follows are some how better than the non followers. If by "most", you mean Christianity and Islam, then yes. Christianity, Islam and Judaism...its because they all follow the teachings of abraham. essentially they are all the same with a few tweaks. don't quite know what to say here..
And to the OP. I would probably suggest that you do not date anymore christian women. In a way, her mother is right. You and the girl may get along pretty well, but in general its pretty difficult to have a close relationship (without friction) with someone with fundamentally different beliefs. You don't even have to be a christian to understand how that is possible.
However, to say nothing "substantial" is possible is very flawed. Poor choice of words.
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On September 08 2008 16:04 Centric wrote:Show nested quote +On September 08 2008 14:28 pokeyAA wrote:On September 08 2008 13:34 eshlow wrote:On September 08 2008 13:08 Nintu wrote:Also, the "love your neighbor as yourself" hypocrisy argue fails when you realize that, the Christian is trying to save the person, something you'd do for yourself. So, it falls under love. Also a pretty epic fail.
Don't generalize. Trust me, There are Catholic and Christians that very well understand this, from every angle. Well, apparently most people didn't get the memo that saying something negative ("you're going to hell if you don't believe in Jesus") is generally not a good way to proselytize... In fact, I don't recall any proselytization in the NT where Jesus said anything remotely similar; the majority if not all the time he treated people with kindness & respect or healed them and then invited them to come follow him.. I think the point is the person saying you're going to hell is not doing it out of spite/anger, but rather out of love. Kinda like a parent telling his kids you're going to get cavities if you dont brush your teeth. Its more of a "I care about you so I'm warning you, even if you don't really want to hear it" sort of thing. Hahaha...let's be honest. How many of those people who preach fire and brimstone are actually saying it out of true love? I grew up in church (and am a Christian) but I have to say, I always thought it was bullshit when people said that. It is extremely rare (and I have never seen it) to see someone actually tell someone that they are going to hell out of love. Most of the time it's just a foolish attempt at convincing another person to believe what you believe.
Maybe not out of love, maybe straightfoward honesty? I have seen a lot of people ask christians So you think i'll go to hell if I dont believe in Jesus?!!! and get all indignant if the christian says yes in a straightfoward manner. Thats just what Christians believe, there's no avoiding the subject. Thats what I think happens more than some random guy out on the streets preaching fire and brimstone.
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CA10828 Posts
On September 08 2008 13:34 eshlow wrote:Show nested quote +On September 08 2008 13:08 Nintu wrote:Also, the "love your neighbor as yourself" hypocrisy argue fails when you realize that, the Christian is trying to save the person, something you'd do for yourself. So, it falls under love. Also a pretty epic fail.
Don't generalize. Trust me, There are Catholic and Christians that very well understand this, from every angle. Well, apparently most people didn't get the memo that saying something negative ("you're going to hell if you don't believe in Jesus") is generally not a good way to proselytize... In fact, I don't recall any proselytization in the NT where Jesus said anything remotely similar; the majority if not all the time he treated people with kindness & respect or healed them and then invited them to come follow him..
my father is a pastor. growing up, i've met many many different pastors. none of them approve of the 'fire and brimstone' approach. in fact, my previous pastor here at college (he left to go back to school and get his phd) actually argued with a guy who was doing that at a college campus in front of hundreds of students.
i'm not quite sure why people get the idea of evangelism as this type of ministry. it's really in the very small minority, but i guess it's the only type that gets media coverage...
so basically i don't really get your comment of "most people didn't get the memo".
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Ive had my fair share of religious intolerance. As you may know, Mexico is a country which was raised by religion and as such the vast majority of the people here are pretty.. religious.
When I was in primary, in my 2nd year I had this teacher that made us pray at the beginning of each class, of course Ive been a complete skeptic for most of my life so I didnt pray and it wasnt long before the teacher started calling me names and suggested for me to be expelled (it wasnt a catholic school or anything by the way).
My mothers side of the family is deeply catholic, specially my uncle's family, they would never let my cousins anywhere near me just because im not baptized.
In highschool, it was just awesome how each year they gave us a counselor and whenever the religion question came up, and then most would be catholics, 10 or so would be cristians, 5 would be of whatever other religion, and that was fine and awesome and interesting to know about other people beliefs and the diversity in school and whatever other bullshit. But then the lone atheist said what he was and that was followed by this awkward silence and some even dared to ask "but why?".
Theres this evangelical church next to me, on tuesdays and thursdays you can hear their woes all night from the whole block, theyre sometimes worse than college kids, anyway, they have this piano so I asked the owner if I could play it, immediately he asked if I shared their beliefs, and when I said no, well it turns out that the piano was sacred, and I was just not worthy of playing it, wtf?.
And its just everywhere, I went to a hindi restaurant in usa, where they wouldnt let islamic people inside when they call themselves tolerant and respectful.
Anyway, the kind of religious person ive found the most tolerant and the easiest to argue with are the kind that dont really give a shit, they dont go to church on sundays nor they refuse to eat pork or whatever on certain days, the kind of people that just invoke their god when something goes wrong or goes really good, fakers that still feel attached in some weird way to their sorrounding's religion.
Yes Im generalizing and Im saying religion sucks balls and Im basing my opinion on a bunch of examples Ive had in my life, yes Ive met a bunch of deeply religious people that are perfectly fine with others beliefs, that even believe in parasites and germs, but I have not met a single one that can take an argument against his/her religion in a good way.
/rant
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If you have to, you could also fake it. There are quite a few hypocritical people, i.e. those who don't give a shit about religion all year long, but then go to church on christmas because "that's what one has to do".
The Christian religion is still strongly integrated in society, especially in like funerals, marriages, and some holidays. It's impossible to live your life without taking part in any of this, so you might as well just say "yeah I believe in god but I'm not going to church because that's stupid, and Catholicism is bad anyway (which is true :p)" or w/e but in reality you just don't give a shit about it.
Ok, after you already said you're an UNBELIEVER - BURRRNNNN!!! it's of course harder to do so, but anyway. It's something you maybe should have done from the start.
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On September 08 2008 16:55 LosingID8 wrote:Show nested quote +On September 08 2008 13:34 eshlow wrote:On September 08 2008 13:08 Nintu wrote:Also, the "love your neighbor as yourself" hypocrisy argue fails when you realize that, the Christian is trying to save the person, something you'd do for yourself. So, it falls under love. Also a pretty epic fail.
Don't generalize. Trust me, There are Catholic and Christians that very well understand this, from every angle. Well, apparently most people didn't get the memo that saying something negative ("you're going to hell if you don't believe in Jesus") is generally not a good way to proselytize... In fact, I don't recall any proselytization in the NT where Jesus said anything remotely similar; the majority if not all the time he treated people with kindness & respect or healed them and then invited them to come follow him.. my father is a pastor. growing up, i've met many many different pastors. none of them approve of the 'fire and brimstone' approach. in fact, my previous pastor here at college (he left to go back to school and get his phd) actually argued with a guy who was doing that at a college campus in front of hundreds of students. i'm not quite sure why people get the idea of evangelism as this type of ministry. it's really in the very small minority, but i guess it's the only type that gets media coverage... so basically i don't really get your comment of "most people didn't get the memo".
I don't know if you're been to the US before or anything, but a lot of the denominations here take the fire and brimstone approach of evangelism (at least it seems that way from most of the people I've talked to).
Well, that and it always seems that the F&B approach is the one that's always on television if you flip to those channels like you said. The media likes to make people seem controversial or look bad.
Plus, that's generally the first thing that's brought up when discussing the topic with someone.. as 'kinda' noted in this thread. The general idea of F&B or of Christians believing they're "better" than everyone else; the underlying concept is very similar. 
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On September 08 2008 12:18 eshlow wrote:Show nested quote +On September 08 2008 12:13 Meta wrote:
They don't want their daughter dating a hell-bound heathen, can you really blame them? Strongly disagree. If her parents really think that then they're retarded.
They're Christians...
Edit:And just to clarify exactly what I mean by that, they are retarded and that is what they believe -_-
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My advice: don't go out with a christian.
By the way, I agree with her: I don't have anything to do with someone who believes in Christian values, and therefore, I wouldn't go into a deep relationship with her.
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3 Lions
United States3705 Posts
On September 08 2008 12:34 Folca wrote:
Christians are almost always very misleaded, such as
"Is it right for a lot of Christians to tell people who are non-believers that they're going to hell in attempts to convert them... when Jesus says love your neighbor as yourself?"
Christians dont quite understand to have a gentle saying, instead of an almost "hypocrite" sort of talking -.-
:edit: does that make any sense?
no, it doesn't.
Jesus says to "love your neighbor as yourself", and if your neighbor is an unbeliever and is going to hell, then wouldn't you want him to not go to hell? So, according to Christianity, you have to convert him.
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Don't get involved with christians and never fall in love with a christian girl. They are the most pityful, close minded people you could find on this world. Remember, no one is as racist as christian believers.
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On September 08 2008 20:56 iG.ClouD wrote:
Don't get involved with christians and never fall in love with a christian girl. They are the most pityful, close minded people you could find on this world. Remember, no one is as racist as christian believers.
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Kennigit
Canada19447 Posts
On September 08 2008 20:56 iG.ClouD wrote:
Don't get involved with christians and never fall in love with a christian girl. They are the most pityful, close minded people you could find on this world. Remember, no one is as racist as christian believers.
I hate italians.
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Just make her so wet in her panties that she leaves religion for you.
QFT
True love conquers all <3 Even ridiculous religions.
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On September 08 2008 20:56 iG.ClouD wrote:
Don't get involved with christians and never fall in love with a christian girl. They are the most pityful, close minded people you could find on this world. Remember, no one is as racist as christian believers.
Then you must be very ignorant. But that is simply not true. Atleast you shouldnt generalize it. I know plenty of Christian ppl, and NONE of them are even remotly racist.
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On September 08 2008 22:43 ThePhan2m wrote:Show nested quote +On September 08 2008 20:56 iG.ClouD wrote:
Don't get involved with christians and never fall in love with a christian girl. They are the most pityful, close minded people you could find on this world. Remember, no one is as racist as christian believers. Then you must be very ignorant. But that is simply not true. Atleast you shouldnt generalize it. I know plenty of Christian ppl, and NONE of them are even remotly racist.
I would go ahead and take a guess that he meant discriminatory, prejudice, or something of that nature.
With regards to the topic at hand, I think it's entirely possible to have a relationship with someone of differing religious beliefs. My father is a practicing Catholic (goes to Church every Sunday, etc) and my mom is an agnostic. Both sides just respect each others choices and the right of others to make that choice themselves. As far as I know, neither side tries to convert the other. I was baptized and raised Catholic but I'm a skeptic so eventually I moved to being an agnostic. My dad wasn't happy but he let me make my own choice and never gives me crap about it. In fact, I probably pester him by questioning his beliefs more than anything. He's tolerant though and he answers my questions to the best of his abilities.
So yes, you can have a good, meaningful relationship with someone with a different religion or lack thereof. It just requires both parties to NOT BE FUCKING RETARDED.
As for everyone saying that religious people are trying to convert others out of love, I call bullshit. You're either retarded, inconsiderate, or both if you go by that. You can think you're saving someone but if they really don't want to be "saved" and you've got no proof to support your side, it doesn't work. Just because you think you're doing things the "right" way doesn't give you any right to try to cram it down anyone else's throat unless you've got some cold hard proof. Helping someone off of some drug that is killing them, good. Trying to convince someone that they should like the color blue as much as you, fucking retarded.
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On September 08 2008 12:54 fusionsdf wrote:
I think the annoying thing is that its an irreconcilable difference for one side
I know as an atheist, I wouldnt refuse to date/marry a girl because she was christian, but it certainly doesnt work the same way in reverse
This guy hit the essence of it for me.
The fact that we had differing faiths was never a problem. We talked about it, and I loved the fact that she had an open mind. But I guess that changed for her. The thing that I despise most about Christianity is that it doesn't allow its followers to admit that they do not have exclusive possession of truth. It doesn't allow a truly open mind.
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On September 08 2008 13:18 8Pylon wrote:Enough said
FSM isn't just a religion; it's a way of life.
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On September 08 2008 23:24 Track wrote:Show nested quote +On September 08 2008 12:54 fusionsdf wrote:
I think the annoying thing is that its an irreconcilable difference for one side
I know as an atheist, I wouldnt refuse to date/marry a girl because she was christian, but it certainly doesnt work the same way in reverse This guy hit the essence of it for me. The fact that we had differing faiths was never a problem. We talked about it, and I loved the fact that she had an open mind. But I guess that changed for her. The thing that I despise most about Christianity is that it doesn't allow its followers to admit that they do not have exclusive possession of truth. It doesn't allow a truly open mind.
Faith is all about believing in God. 100% certnanty of somthing you cannot see. Thats faith. To doubt that, is in other hand, to not believe in God. Which breaks the whole effect and essence of the belief. Its like jumping between atheism and agnostic. Make up your mind already! right? ^^
Theist ---------- Agnostic --------- Atheist
The effect of the belief gets broken if you go into the lines. Get it? But for an Atheist, the effect is not the same, its human to only believe in what you can see, and to stick with it, its just a excuse to do whatever you want. And if you reconsider, it doesnt have any consequenses. Its not a lifestyle, like beeing a Theist is. Its a difference in open mindness. Doesnt mean Christians arent openminded. There are just some basics. Just like you have, that you dont believe in anything you cannot see. Once you doubt that due to you experiencing something, you suddently become thoughtful and agnostic.
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On September 09 2008 00:23 ThePhan2m wrote:Show nested quote +On September 08 2008 23:24 Track wrote:On September 08 2008 12:54 fusionsdf wrote:
I think the annoying thing is that its an irreconcilable difference for one side
I know as an atheist, I wouldnt refuse to date/marry a girl because she was christian, but it certainly doesnt work the same way in reverse This guy hit the essence of it for me. The fact that we had differing faiths was never a problem. We talked about it, and I loved the fact that she had an open mind. But I guess that changed for her. The thing that I despise most about Christianity is that it doesn't allow its followers to admit that they do not have exclusive possession of truth. It doesn't allow a truly open mind. Faith is all about believing in God. 100% certnanty of somthing you cannot see. Thats faith. To doubt that, is in other hand, to not believe in God. Which breaks the whole effect and essence of the belief. Its like jumping between atheism and agnostic. Make up your mind already! right? ^^ Theist ---------- Agnostic --------- Atheist The effect of the belief gets broken if you go into the lines. Get it? But for an Atheist, the effect is not the same, its human to only believe in what you can see, and to stick with it, its just a excuse to do whatever you want. And if you reconsider, it doesnt have any consequenses. Its not a lifestyle, like beeing a Theist is. Its a difference in open mindness. Doesnt mean Christians arent openminded. There are just some basics. Just like you have, that you dont believe in anything you cannot see. Once you doubt that due to you experiencing something, you suddently become thoughtful and agnostic.
For the sake for Track, I would just say faith and believing in God is not the issue, although it is relevant to the topic on hand. It is true that Christians aren't always open minded and no one knows everything. It takes what maturity and wisdom to know what is safe to be open about and what is not. Therefore not being truly open does have its merits. On the safe side, most of them play defense first (sometimes too radically till it freaks people out), until maturity comes in due time. I find fully and truly matured Christians among the most mind-liberated people in the world.
Openness does not mean influence, although the chances of influence are higher, since it is still the individual's personal will of choice. The tricky part to Christians is that being open minded actually means acceptance but conditional approval. I think she can still accept your differing faith with unconditional love as a person but do not agree and approve of it/part of it. I hope this helps you.
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On September 09 2008 01:07 NeverTheEndlessWiz wrote:Show nested quote +On September 09 2008 00:23 ThePhan2m wrote:On September 08 2008 23:24 Track wrote:On September 08 2008 12:54 fusionsdf wrote:
I think the annoying thing is that its an irreconcilable difference for one side
I know as an atheist, I wouldnt refuse to date/marry a girl because she was christian, but it certainly doesnt work the same way in reverse This guy hit the essence of it for me. The fact that we had differing faiths was never a problem. We talked about it, and I loved the fact that she had an open mind. But I guess that changed for her. The thing that I despise most about Christianity is that it doesn't allow its followers to admit that they do not have exclusive possession of truth. It doesn't allow a truly open mind. Faith is all about believing in God. 100% certnanty of somthing you cannot see. Thats faith. To doubt that, is in other hand, to not believe in God. Which breaks the whole effect and essence of the belief. Its like jumping between atheism and agnostic. Make up your mind already! right? ^^ Theist ---------- Agnostic --------- Atheist The effect of the belief gets broken if you go into the lines. Get it? But for an Atheist, the effect is not the same, its human to only believe in what you can see, and to stick with it, its just a excuse to do whatever you want. And if you reconsider, it doesnt have any consequenses. Its not a lifestyle, like beeing a Theist is. Its a difference in open mindness. Doesnt mean Christians arent openminded. There are just some basics. Just like you have, that you dont believe in anything you cannot see. Once you doubt that due to you experiencing something, you suddently become thoughtful and agnostic. For the sake for Track, I would just say faith and believing in God is not the issue, although it is relevant to the topic on hand. It is true that Christians aren't always open minded and no one knows everything. It takes what maturity and wisdom to know what is safe to be open about and what is not. Therefore not being truly open does have its merits. On the safe side, most of them play defense first (sometimes too radically till it freaks people out), until maturity comes in due time. I find fully and truly matured Christians among the most mind-liberated people in the world. Openness does not mean influence, although the chances of influence are higher, since it is still the individual's personal will of choice. The tricky part to Christians is that being open minded actually means acceptance but conditional approval. I think she can still accept your differing faith with unconditional love as a person but do not agree and approve of it/part of it. I hope this helps you.
I dont deny that love cannot find place between the two. But the relationship between them, if its going to last a lifetime, will not be whole, unless the most important thing in the womans life, can be shared and understood.
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Yeah, and that was the problem. She felt I couldn't share in that fundamental aspect.
I have yet to find truly open minded Christians ANYWHERE. In my experience, when one shares that he is not a Christian, I get the "aww, you're just not mature enough yet." with a smug and condescending look. It's a pity really that Christians are mandated NOT to be tolerant of others beliefs. It's a canon of Christian doctrine to try to convert.
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On September 08 2008 14:51 fgsvsd wrote:
Just make her so wet in her panties that she leaves religion for you.
Yes, this. I have done this before. I converted my ex in a 45 minute conversation. I just pointed out all the inconsistencies in her believes and showed her that she really didnt believe in christianity. A true believer cant be converted so easily though.
Oh, and why the fuck are her parents making this decision for her? I lol at people who cant decide on things for themselves. "Im so stupid I am going to let other people tell me how to live my life."
You are probably better off without her.
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On September 09 2008 00:23 ThePhan2m wrote:Show nested quote +On September 08 2008 23:24 Track wrote:On September 08 2008 12:54 fusionsdf wrote:
I think the annoying thing is that its an irreconcilable difference for one side
I know as an atheist, I wouldnt refuse to date/marry a girl because she was christian, but it certainly doesnt work the same way in reverse This guy hit the essence of it for me. The fact that we had differing faiths was never a problem. We talked about it, and I loved the fact that she had an open mind. But I guess that changed for her. The thing that I despise most about Christianity is that it doesn't allow its followers to admit that they do not have exclusive possession of truth. It doesn't allow a truly open mind. Faith is all about believing in God. 100% certnanty of somthing you cannot see. Thats faith. To doubt that, is in other hand, to not believe in God. Which breaks the whole effect and essence of the belief. Its like jumping between atheism and agnostic. Make up your mind already! right? ^^ Theist ---------- Agnostic --------- Atheist The effect of the belief gets broken if you go into the lines. Get it? But for an Atheist, the effect is not the same, its human to only believe in what you can see, and to stick with it, its just a excuse to do whatever you want. And if you reconsider, it doesnt have any consequenses. Its not a lifestyle, like beeing a Theist is. Its a difference in open mindness. Doesnt mean Christians arent openminded. There are just some basics. Just like you have, that you dont believe in anything you cannot see. Once you doubt that due to you experiencing something, you suddently become thoughtful and agnostic.
wrong, christians are closed minded because they arent even willing to consider believes that differ from their own.
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On September 09 2008 03:30 Mastermind wrote:Show nested quote +On September 09 2008 00:23 ThePhan2m wrote:On September 08 2008 23:24 Track wrote:On September 08 2008 12:54 fusionsdf wrote:
I think the annoying thing is that its an irreconcilable difference for one side
I know as an atheist, I wouldnt refuse to date/marry a girl because she was christian, but it certainly doesnt work the same way in reverse This guy hit the essence of it for me. The fact that we had differing faiths was never a problem. We talked about it, and I loved the fact that she had an open mind. But I guess that changed for her. The thing that I despise most about Christianity is that it doesn't allow its followers to admit that they do not have exclusive possession of truth. It doesn't allow a truly open mind. Faith is all about believing in God. 100% certnanty of somthing you cannot see. Thats faith. To doubt that, is in other hand, to not believe in God. Which breaks the whole effect and essence of the belief. Its like jumping between atheism and agnostic. Make up your mind already! right? ^^ Theist ---------- Agnostic --------- Atheist The effect of the belief gets broken if you go into the lines. Get it? But for an Atheist, the effect is not the same, its human to only believe in what you can see, and to stick with it, its just a excuse to do whatever you want. And if you reconsider, it doesnt have any consequenses. Its not a lifestyle, like beeing a Theist is. Its a difference in open mindness. Doesnt mean Christians arent openminded. There are just some basics. Just like you have, that you dont believe in anything you cannot see. Once you doubt that due to you experiencing something, you suddently become thoughtful and agnostic. wrong, christians are closed minded because they arent even willing to consider believes that differ from their own.
agree, whereas any good atheist would denounce their beliefs in a heartbeat if enough evidence was provided to convince them otherwise.
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On September 08 2008 22:43 ThePhan2m wrote:Show nested quote +On September 08 2008 20:56 iG.ClouD wrote:
Don't get involved with christians and never fall in love with a christian girl. They are the most pityful, close minded people you could find on this world. Remember, no one is as racist as christian believers. Then you must be very ignorant. But that is simply not true. Atleast you shouldnt generalize it. I know plenty of Christian ppl, and NONE of them are even remotly racist.
The very fundament of christian religion is based on the belief that whoever doesn't get baptized hasn't to be considered a son of god. People who respect other cultures and live along with them without trying to conquer over their habits and religion are not considered true christians. And I might know a little about this since I live in the biggest christian country of the world. Sadly.
Even their name is disrespectful. They should be called churchians.
I feel sorry for Track to be in the situation he is. But seriously what can a person who has closed his own heart and eyes to the whole universe give to you? No christian ever gave me the slightiest impression of being able to give me an emotion. They are no different from a child who has his mom next to him ready to answer to any provocation given to him in his place.
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On September 09 2008 00:04 AlabasterFilth wrote:FSM isn't just a religion; it's a way of life.
lol :D
On September 09 2008 03:56 Meta wrote:Show nested quote +On September 09 2008 03:30 Mastermind wrote:On September 09 2008 00:23 ThePhan2m wrote:On September 08 2008 23:24 Track wrote:On September 08 2008 12:54 fusionsdf wrote:
I think the annoying thing is that its an irreconcilable difference for one side
I know as an atheist, I wouldnt refuse to date/marry a girl because she was christian, but it certainly doesnt work the same way in reverse This guy hit the essence of it for me. The fact that we had differing faiths was never a problem. We talked about it, and I loved the fact that she had an open mind. But I guess that changed for her. The thing that I despise most about Christianity is that it doesn't allow its followers to admit that they do not have exclusive possession of truth. It doesn't allow a truly open mind. Faith is all about believing in God. 100% certnanty of somthing you cannot see. Thats faith. To doubt that, is in other hand, to not believe in God. Which breaks the whole effect and essence of the belief. Its like jumping between atheism and agnostic. Make up your mind already! right? ^^ Theist ---------- Agnostic --------- Atheist The effect of the belief gets broken if you go into the lines. Get it? But for an Atheist, the effect is not the same, its human to only believe in what you can see, and to stick with it, its just a excuse to do whatever you want. And if you reconsider, it doesnt have any consequenses. Its not a lifestyle, like beeing a Theist is. Its a difference in open mindness. Doesnt mean Christians arent openminded. There are just some basics. Just like you have, that you dont believe in anything you cannot see. Once you doubt that due to you experiencing something, you suddently become thoughtful and agnostic. wrong, christians are closed minded because they arent even willing to consider believes that differ from their own. agree, whereas any good atheist would denounce their beliefs in a heartbeat if enough evidence was provided to convince them otherwise.
exactly I dont think much else is needed to be said
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On September 09 2008 04:16 iG.ClouD wrote:Show nested quote +On September 08 2008 22:43 ThePhan2m wrote:On September 08 2008 20:56 iG.ClouD wrote:
Don't get involved with christians and never fall in love with a christian girl. They are the most pityful, close minded people you could find on this world. Remember, no one is as racist as christian believers. Then you must be very ignorant. But that is simply not true. Atleast you shouldnt generalize it. I know plenty of Christian ppl, and NONE of them are even remotly racist. The very fundament of christian religion is based on the belief that whoever doesn't get baptized hasn't to be considered a son of god. People who respect other cultures and live along with them without trying to conquer over their habits and religion are not considered true christians. And I might know a little about this since I live in the biggest christian country of the world. Sadly. Even their name is disrespectful. They should be called churchians. I feel sorry for Track to be in the situation he is. But seriously what can a person who has closed his own heart and eyes to the whole universe give to you? No christian ever gave me the slightiest impression of being able to give me an emotion. They are no different from a child who has his mom next to him ready to answer to any provocation given to him in his place.
You must live around some crappy Christians. I still don't see how Christians are racist from the comments you just made either. Not all Christians in the world are out to convert people because their pastor tells them to or they might not go to heaven. If you understand the Christian ideology, then you'd know that faith alone gets one to heaven, not the shit they do (like Catholics). Yes Christians stress Evangelism, the spreading of Christianity to nonbelievers, yet a good number don't believe it should be enforced. It's just a good thing to do if you, a Christian, want to save your nonbelieving family and friends and if you are brave, strangers.
The "true Christians" aren't the ones who try to conquer people to their religions. They are the fucked up ones who make every Christian in the world look bad.
Christians aren't like the Zerg where God is the Overmind and all the Zerglings are rabid Christians. I'd say... more like Protoss with their different tribes..
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Christians aren't like the Zerg where God is the Overmind and all the Zerglings are rabid Christians. I'd say... more like Protoss with their different tribes..
First of all, Starcraft is nice, but try to get a life, or something equivalent.
Secondly, christianism has ALWAYS tried, by any way, to extend and to convince everybody that they hold the truth.
In middle age you would be burned alive if you didn't follow exactly was the church was saying. Then, it has always been on the wrong side: the Church has been supporting all the monarchies in Europe, then Mussolini, Franco, every single dictature in South America. They didn't do shit about nazism.
Now, American evangelists are going to the last South American tribes, in the middle of the jungle, trying to convince them with their bullshit and american lifestyle, and destroying their culture and ancestral traditions and way of life.
They are still against contraception and therefore against condoms. In Africa, by their actions, they are directly responsible of the long and painfull death of hundred thousand people, who believed what they said: condom is eviiiil.
Sorry, but when I hear about Christianism, the "religion of love", I find it quite funny.
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For the last time, it's not that she thinks you're a bad person, or even wrong. It's not that she thinks she's better than you in the slightest. It's that, if she did enter a serious relationship with you, she would end up meeting guys who she can talk to about Christianity, guys to pray with, etc.. People she can forge a powerful connection she cannot get with you.
It's not your fault. You just don't have what she needs. Yes, you can still have a relationship, and maybe a damn good one. But you can't have what a lot of Christians really want out of a relationship.
She isn't bad. You aren't bad. Her parents aren't bad. Her parents are right, actually. Because they understand this connection, and they realize that if their daughter commits to you, she'll only find out later what she's missing. (As was exactly described in the following message.. She joined a group. A group where she met people who she can connect with.. She realized what she needed.)
dated this girl 3 years, from day 1 i asked her if religion would be an issue: "No" was always the answer.
we end up going to same college she joins some christian group, in 5 weeks she dumps me because i am not one who believes.
it sucks hard, i can assure you. but as people have stated this post, religion is a big part of their lives and being able to share it is VERY important to them.
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I don't like christians for this reason. They are completely blind sheep. They have no thoughts of their own and merely believe whatever the first person they hear tells them. If you try to throw any things like "logic" or "facts" at them they merely brush them aside as if you didn't say anything, and they ALWAYS think they are better than you and that you are just a poor lost soul and they "hope that one day you will find your faith".... what a joke.
Coincidentally these are many of the traits that i often see in stupid people. Go figure.
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On September 09 2008 09:32 Tinithor wrote:
I don't like christians for this reason. They are completely blind sheep. They have no thoughts of their own and merely believe whatever the first person they hear tells them. If you try to throw any things like "logic" or "facts" at them they merely brush them aside as if you didn't say anything, and they ALWAYS think they are better than you and that you are just a poor lost soul and they "hope that one day you will find your faith".... what a joke.
Coincidentally these are many of the traits that i often see in stupid people. Go figure.
You obviously dont know many Christians then.
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On September 09 2008 08:22 Biff The Understudy wrote:Show nested quote +Christians aren't like the Zerg where God is the Overmind and all the Zerglings are rabid Christians. I'd say... more like Protoss with their different tribes.. First of all, Starcraft is nice, but try to get a life, or something equivalent. Secondly, christianism has ALWAYS tried, by any way, to extend and to convince everybody that they hold the truth. In middle age you would be burned alive if you didn't follow exactly was the church was saying. Then, it has always been on the wrong side: the Church has been supporting all the monarchies in Europe, then Mussolini, Franco, every single dictature in South America. They didn't do shit about nazism. Now, American evangelists are going to the last South American tribes, in the middle of the jungle, trying to convince them with their bullshit and american lifestyle, and destroying their culture and ancestral traditions and way of life. They are still against contraception and therefore against condoms. In Africa, by their actions, they are directly responsible of the long and painfull death of hundred thousand people, who believed what they said: condom is eviiiil. Sorry, but when I hear about Christianism, the "religion of love", I find it quite funny.
you are a dip
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On September 08 2008 16:25 Romance_us wrote:Show nested quote +On September 08 2008 13:08 Nintu wrote:On September 08 2008 12:39 Folca wrote:On September 08 2008 12:38 Kennigit wrote:On September 08 2008 12:34 Folca wrote:
Christians are almost always very misleaded, such as
"Is it right for a lot of Christians to tell people who are non-believers that they're going to hell in attempts to convert them... when Jesus says love your neighbor as yourself?"
Christians dont quite understand to have a gentle saying, instead of an almost "hypocrite" sort of talking -.-
:edit: does that make any sense? Keep your generalized bullshit comments to yourself I'll take that as a yes Lol. How do you not see what you originally said as a blatant generalization, something with no merit whatsoever? "Christians don't quite understand--" epic fail. Also, the "love your neighbor as yourself" hypocrisy argue fails when you realize that, the Christian is trying to save the person, something you'd do for yourself. So, it falls under love. Also a pretty epic fail. Don't generalize. Trust me, There are Catholic and Christians that very well understand this, from every angle. As for the OP, It's sad but it's true, and actually quite legitimate. A lot of people don't want to date people who aren't of the same faith. It's not that odd or wrong in anyway. It's personal preference. Like not dating a smoker. Would you date a muslim? Maybe. Maybe not. I know that as an American there are a lot of skewed vision of Islam floating around, so you might be reserved there. A lot of Americans wouldn't.. how's that very different? (Not a drastic generalization because of the qualifier.) Some people can't get past certain beliefs, and some people feel more comfortable with people of the same belief. When you're choosing to commit yourself to someone, it's good to assure yourself a deep connection, a deeper connection than you can find somewhere else. The fact that you don't share the faith means that you are missing out on a very powerful connection. That's not my way of saying you're wrong for not being Christian. Faith, being the most powerful force in the world, has so much power within it, that when you share it with someone, nomatter what the faith is, it's incredibly powerful. It allows you two to connect on a spiritual level aswell. Anyway, that's my opinion. It happens, and it sorta sucks for you... but it's not wrong. In your humble opinion. Never state anything as arrogant or naive as that as fact.
I define faith faith as a blind trust in something. It doesn't have to be in a religious context, but faith is extremely powerful. Faith can be seen in the love between two people, regardless of religion or anything. Just, so much of that connection is forged on faith. In a religious context, faith gives people to become suicide bombers. If that isn't proof of a powerful force, I don't know what is.
To the start of this topic, I'm an atheist and would personally refuse to date a christian. I had a good friendship dissolve over this. Apparently my casually saying I'd go to her youth group one day then never going broke her heart. With another girl I liked, after I'd known her a while and we became friends (no relationship), she said that she got really annoyed at some things I said that were poking fun at christianity. After that, I decided that I could never have a relationship with a christian. I refuse to have my heart broken over something so stupid.
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On September 09 2008 10:12 SaveYourSavior wrote:Show nested quote +On September 09 2008 08:22 Biff The Understudy wrote:Christians aren't like the Zerg where God is the Overmind and all the Zerglings are rabid Christians. I'd say... more like Protoss with their different tribes.. First of all, Starcraft is nice, but try to get a life, or something equivalent. Secondly, christianism has ALWAYS tried, by any way, to extend and to convince everybody that they hold the truth. In middle age you would be burned alive if you didn't follow exactly was the church was saying. Then, it has always been on the wrong side: the Church has been supporting all the monarchies in Europe, then Mussolini, Franco, every single dictature in South America. They didn't do shit about nazism. Now, American evangelists are going to the last South American tribes, in the middle of the jungle, trying to convince them with their bullshit and american lifestyle, and destroying their culture and ancestral traditions and way of life. They are still against contraception and therefore against condoms. In Africa, by their actions, they are directly responsible of the long and painfull death of hundred thousand people, who believed what they said: condom is eviiiil. Sorry, but when I hear about Christianism, the "religion of love", I find it quite funny. you are a dip
Good. That's really how you make a discussion going somewhere.
If you don't have anything to answer, don't answer.
If it's just for throwing insult, better to go on 4chan.
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EPT![[image loading]](http://onwhoseauthority.files.wordpress.com/2007/10/flying-spaghetti-monster.jpg)
