Guide to Music - Hip Hop - Page 3

On September 01 2008 08:30 Daigomi wrote:
I agree that the 90s are a great listen, I love everything from the 90s, and I agree with you that they are classics, I just disagree with you that are as easy to listen to for amodern listener as contemporary (but good) hip hop is.

I'm not comparing 2pac with 50 cents, I'm comparing 2pac to the best of contemporary times, and saying that even though they might be at the same level musically (debateable, but I think they are at least fairly similar), the contemporary hip hop is easier to listen ot than old hip hop for the contemporary listener, because it was created and aimed at the contemporary listener.

To your fourth point, my purpose is not to have a definitive guide to the genre, but to have a quick introduction that will allow people to listen to an artist and enjoy it, and from there on they can either ask for more recommendations, or go on their own journey of exploration. Yes, all good music should be recommended, but if I have only five spots to fill I'm not going to recommend something that is "good" but not as easy to listen to over something that is "good' and easy to listen to and understand. If I were to introduce you to art, and you were a completely untrained person whose tastes were unfettered by the ideas of post-modernism and you simply wanted to enjoy the art, would you recommend that I introduce you to something as directly beautiful and meant to entertain like Rococo art, or to something like contemporary art? The situation's are reversed here, because contemporary art is not directly accessible, while classic art is, but the point remains that in order for you to first generate an appreciation of something, after which the appreciation will allow your continued interest, that which is most accessible should be recommended first. The reason why the layman doesn't appreciate modern art is not because there's nothing to appreciate about it, but because it doesn't have the context to appreciate it in, a context which can be created by first understanding the more easily understood classic art.

Sixth point, why do they play new music instead of oldies? Do you think it's simply because we have heard the oldies too much and are bored with it? I can promise you that most youth today have heard much more contemporary music than 50s music, so if it's just about the music being new to the listener, then they should play 50s music. No, the reason they play new music is because music is constantly evolving to keep up with evolving trends in a contemporary world, and because of that, music becomes outdated. That does not mean the music is any less good today than it was ten years ago, it just means the music isn't as easy to identify with.

The purpose of the guide is to introduce people to a genre of music, hip hop. The most effective avenue to this is to introduce them to contemporary hip hop. The guide is an introduction to all hip hop, done through contemporary hip hop. The purpose of this is to get them to begin their journey in the genre of hip hop, a journey which they can take to classic hip hop, to political hip hop, to wherever they wish to. The purpose of this guide is to introduce them to hip hop, and the most effective way to do this is to introduce them to hip hop they might actually like. Furthermore, you might still connect to tupac, but that's because you're firstly already in the hip hop scene, secondly because you've already connected to him, probably more in his era, and lastly and most importantly, because if tupac was still making music today it would be contemporary music, not classic music.

You say that BIG will always be better for you, but you once again disregard your own situatedness in history. You associate with BIG more than with Kanye, you connect more to their context, musically, than to the modern musical context. Do not make the mistake of thinking that you have somehow transcended your historical embeddedness to become an objective appreciater of hip hop. You listen to hip hop in a specific context, and it is because of this that you appreciate his tracks more than Kanye's. However, do a double blind experiment. Give the general population two albums, supposedly created at the same time by the same artist, one consisting of classic hip hop tracks, and one of contemporary hip hop tracks, both similarly good for their context (if that good somehow be objectively measured), and I can assure you that most people will say that the contemporary tracks are more enjoyablle. Obviously I cannot prove this since I don't have such a test, and such a test e. Obviously I cannot prove this since I don't have such a test, and such a test would demand some people who have somehow lived under a hip hop rock for the last twenty years without losing any participation in other aspects of society, but there is no evidence that this will not happen as I have said, and I've given tons of arguments for why it would.

Like you say, recommending good albums from all eras might have been good, even just to offer a historical perspective. However, that was not the approach I went for. I wanted to hook people in by offering them a glimpse of how amazing hip hop can be musically, and then let them go on their own way from there. Your way would have consisted of teaching people about the history of hip hop so that they could appreciate the albums recommended, and then after that hoping they continue to enjoy the music. Maybe you have more faith than me that people will be willing to listen to something that would be close to completely foreign to them (contemporary hip hop is foreign enough as it is), and then put the effort into learning to enjoy the music. I ironically learn to appreciate music like this myself. I study the entire context that the music was created in in great detail, and then I try to start with the classics, and work my way up to modern music so that I can get a historical understanding of a genre. However, this is a lot of work, even for me who is someone committed to learning about music. I often don't find the music I start listening to enjoyable, and I often have to force myself to listen to music I don't like to for days before my ear grow accoustomed to it. I do this because I believe it's the way to get the most complete understanding of a genre, but you need a lot of motivation to do that. By getting people to enjoy some of the newer offerings of the genre, they might get the motivation to study the genre in more depth, thus allowing them to gain a fuller understanding. That's what I'm trying to do.

Just for interest's sake, try to ignore all your prejudices, all that you know about what music stands for, and what means what in music, and listen to these two tracks:
+ Show Spoiler +
Consider that you are just a normal person, no specific preconceptions about what is good, and what is not good. You come to my blog to experience the new genre of metal, what would more likely make you listen to the genre, the first track or the second? In the metal world, the first track is arguably a "better" track than the second one, it's a classic track. Is it accessible at all? Not really. Could you see the second track being accessible if you had an interest in listening to metal? Yes, possibly. Thus the second track will more likely get you to listen to metal than the first track, and ultimately more likely to get you to become a metal purist than the first track, even though that might seem paradoxical.

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Just to make this clear, I'm not going to have Cloud Connected on my Metal list of tracks, just because it is more accessible. All in all, I try to do both your method and mine. I want to present music that is accessible while at the same time trying to present music that has value to it and can be appreciated across multiple contexes. These albums I've presented here are albums which I believe to be both accessible right now, and have long-term value (hence the descriptions about what I like). In metal, as in all my other genres, I will attempt to do the same thing: present a selection of albums which can be enjoyed but which I also believe hold some value as musical pieces. Furthermore, metal, at least the metal my guide will be a guide to, is not a popular form of music, and is thus less influenced by contextual changes outside of the genre.

Daigomi wrote:
Secondly, when recommending hip hop, the best albums for the listener (that is, the people who read this guide) should be recommended, and in general that is contemporary hip hop.