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South Africa4316 Posts
Hip hop, a genre of music that we all like to associate with Eminem and music videos of guys trying to look hardcore with lots of girls in bikinis dancing with them. I'll say this outright, hip hop was one of the most difficult genres for me to get into, not because the music bothered me, but because it seemed almost fundamentally commercial. The lyrics seemed to be all about either how good the rapper is, or otherwise was aimed purely at selling albums. Furthermore, being a white boy brought up on rock music, hip hop was always the "other" music that was looked down upon.
So, why am I writing a guide about hip hop then? Because like all genres of music, if you put some effort into you can learn to appreciate and love the genre. Hip hop artists, even some of the most popular artists, are highly passionate about their music, and there's a reason for it. Their music is about more than just selling records, it's about making a name for yourself and putting back into the community.
There are definitely some strange conventions in hip hop, like talking big, dissing your rivals, having overtly erotic songs, and so forth. I don't claim to know the root of these conventions, however, what I do know is that these are almost purely conventions, like writing in iambic pentametre was for Pope. These conventions serve as a medium, and, rather than being taken seriously, are almost playful in that each artist looks for new and interesting ways to blow their own horns or write sexual lyrics.
Something else that's important in hip hop that often gets ignored is the production of an album. Yes, its the rapper that gets the credit, but the tone of a song is almost always set by the production of it, and its only when the production of a track and the vocals over it synthsesise perfectly that we get an epic track. So, let's get to the albums!
1. Cyne - Time Being
Track Listing
Intro
Nothing's Sacred
Papermate
Steady
Interlude
400 Years Revisited (feat. Blak Lungz)
Samura's Optic
First Person
Interlude
Self Exam
Due Progress
Free
Out of Time
Outro
One of the most beautiful albums in hip hop, ever. Laid back spoken lyrics with some of the purest electronic sounds over it, including chimes and beautiful vocal samples. Cyne is a political hip hop group, which, although I can appreciate, isn't generally my favourite genre of hip hop. However, Cyne brings a whole new side to political hip hop.
The lyrics are generally concerned with emprovement and empowerment, as well as social commentary. Rhymes are smooth, and nothing seems out of place or forced. There are two emcees, both with different and identifiable styles, and two producers whose collaborations are absolutely stunning. The clarity of some of the backing tracks are astounding, with beautiful electronic sounds coming dominating each track. A song which I feel obliged to mention here that is by cyne but not on the album, is Automation remixed by Four Tet. For those interested in electronic music, the name Four Tet will be synonomous with beautiful melodies, and Four Tet does the same thing for Cyne.
My two favourite tracks on the album are Nothing's Sacred and First Person. Nothing's Sacred uses an almost ephmeral vocal sample to form the melody, which, combined with some high intensity vocals makes the track stand out beautifully. In contrast, First Person tells the history of the emcees, with gentle melodies in the background supporting the vocals which provide the main melody in a very soulful way.
2. Brother Ali - The Undisputed Truth
Track Listing
Whatcha Got
Lookin' At Me Sidways
Truth Is
The Puzzle
Pedigree
Daylight
Freedom Ain't Free
Letter From The Government
Here
Listen Up
Take Me Home
Uncle Sam Goddamn
Walking Away
Faheem
Ear To Ear
Brother Ali is everything that Cyne isn't. He's not specifically concerned politically, he's angry, and he's going to tell you about it. At first listen Brother Ali comes across as slightly raw, or unrefined, but the more you listen to the album, the more you learn to appreciate the mastery of Brother Ali.
The music is fairly simplistic. The samples are well chosen, and the music always enhances the music. However, there are rarely any interesting contrasts, the music almost always tells the exact same story as the vocals. This allows Brother Ali to truly stand out, as he goes from enraged and enpassioned to eerily quiet and subtle from song to song, and each time he changes in mood, so does the listener.
My favourite track on the album is undoubtably Here. The track consists of a repetitive "are you here to confuse me" sample used as a chorus, with a basic beat in the background, but over that Brother Ali produces one of the most lyrically stunning raps I've heard so far. After Here, all tracks can hold their own, with perhaps my second favourite song being the opener Whatcha Got which sets the tone for the rest of the album impeccably.
3. Blue Scholars - Bayani
Track Listing
Baha'i Healing Prayer
Second Chapter
Opening Salvo
North By Northwest
Ordinary Guys
Still Got Love
Bayani
Loyalty
Fire For The People
Xenophobia
The Distance
Back Home
50 Thousand Deep
Morning Of America
Joe Metro
I was stuck deciding whether this album or the Cyne one would be my favourite hip hop album. Brother Ali was definitely my second favourite album, but either Bayani or Time Being would be my first. In the end I chose Cyne because it was the first album which made me appreciate hip hop.
Why do I bring this up? Because the albums are very similar. Perhaps not musically, but the feeling you get from both, and the lyrical themes of both albums are very similar. Blue Scholars are a political hip hop duo, with songs like Bring them Back Home, Opening Salvo and The Distance being outright political comments. However, they mix it up with some personal and motivational tracks like Ordinary Guys and Still got Love which makes the album both grand in its scope, and personal in its closeness.
Compared with Cyne, Blue Scholars focus more on lyrics, and some of verses will astound you with the perfect rhymes, and sustained rhymes, as line after line flows perfectly into the next. This doesn't mean that the production isn't top notch, however. The production keeps the music interesting, and often provides a beautiful coutnerpoint to the lyrics. Songs to listen to are: Ordinary Guy and The Distance, but honestly, any song on the album can take your breath away.
4. CunninLynguists - Dirty Acres
Track Listing
Never (feat. Big Rube)
Valley of Death
Dirty Acres
Kentucky (Interlude)
K.K.K.Y.
Wonderful (feat. Devin The Dude)
Yellow Lines (feat. Phonte & Witchdoctor)
The Park (Fresh Air)
Summer's Gone
They Call Me (Interlude)
Gun (feat. Sheisty Khrist)
Dance For Me
Georgia
Things I Dream
Mexico (feat. Club Dub)
This album stands apart as a very well crafted album. It combines slow, soulful tracks with fast paced, aggressive tracks, and a few party songs thrown in between. The group isn't divided into emcees and producers, but rather the two steady members of CunninLynguists both produce and rap on the album. This seems to work for the lynguists, with each member brining his own side to the album, making it wonderfully diverse.
The production is also interesting and diverse, and seems to differ from track to track. On songs like K.K.K.Y. a vocal sample provides a stunning melody while some aggressive beats and vocals move the track along. In contrast, tracks like Gun has an acoustic guitar doing the melody, with the beats being sparse, and the chorus sung by the members, in contrast to the usual agressive rap style.
This album thus stands out as an album of many diverse songs, with all songs working out great. On some songs you'll think you're listening to a Jedi Mind Trickstrack, while others are closer to Anthony Hamilton than they are to hip hop. I can't pick any favourite tracks from this album, as it all depends on my mood.
5. Kanye West - Late Registration
Wake Up Mr. West
Heard 'Em Say
Touch The Sky
Gold Digger
Skit #1
Drive Slow
My Way Home
Crack Music
Roses
Bring Me Down
Addiction
Skit #2
Diamonds From Sierra Leone
We Major
Skit #3
Hey Mama
Celebration
Skit #4
Gone
Diamonds From Sierra Leona (Bonus Track)
Late
So after four reasonably underground artists, I decide to end it with Mr West. And there's a reason for that: I love him. I mentioned in the begining that much of hip hop can be seen as a lyrical game, and Kanye West epitomizes that. His lyrics are fun while clever at the same time. You've never heard any artist name-drop as many fashion brands, or talk as big, or make as many clever though unnecessary references. And that's what great about Kanye, he has fun with his music.
Along with that you have Kanye, a producer rather than emcee by profession, doing the production. It doesn't matter which track you pick up, the music will always be interesting and fitting. The production differs from bluesy feeling songs like Drive Slowly to the upbeat, popish Celebration. And as a producer, Kanye has made many contacts with all the biggest men in the business, and on this album you he reaps the benefits, with guest appearances from Lupe Fiasco, Jamie Foxx, Common, Nas, Jay-z, and Consequence.
Choosing a favourite song is quite difficult, but I love Gold Digger which harkens back to old african-american work songs and folk songs. Yet the lyrics are amusingly modern, with a constant stream of references, from Louis Vuitton, to Usher and Busta Rhymes, to BMW. Another song I love is Diamonds from Sierra Leone, sampling the chorus from Diamons are Forever, the production, and the invariably clever lyrics, epitomize what makes Kanye West so entertaining.
Other Albums
Hilltop Hoods - The Hard Road - Australian hip hop, pure party music made interesting with some very clever lyrics. Did I mention they all have Aussie accents?
RJD2 - Getting Jukie Wid it Volume 2 - RJD2 is one of the best producers, and he graces us with collections of his productions occasionally. It features my favourite new artists like Copywrite, Diverse, and Cannibal Ox.
Common - Finding Forever - No list would be complete without the mac daddy of hip hop on it. His newest album, while not perfect, has some really good tracks on it.
You guys might notice that most of these albums are fairly new. Most popular genres evolve very rapidly, and music that was revolutionary ten years ago sounds stale to the untrained ear. Because of this, I think that its important to stay up to date in contemporary genres like hip hop and indie. This doesn't mean that old hip hop can't be appreciated, it just cannot be appreciated as instinctively.
I really hope that you guys try out some of these albums. They're all amazing. Also, let me know of any other albums you think I should have included!
  
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Spenguin
Australia3316 Posts
No other Aussie Hip Hop other than Hilltop Hoods who I find are boring.
Bliss N Eso
Muph N Plutonic
Don't ask about the spelling or the "N"'s
I liked Kanye West's "Graduation" album though.
Cheers Daigomi!
EDIT: For Daigomi
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South Africa4316 Posts
I do like Graduation as well, Late Registration is just more consistent for me. Graudation has a few damn annoying tracks on it! And Hilltop Hoods don't suck, they're tons of fun, and quite clever at it.
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Spenguin
Australia3316 Posts
But of all the artists, and there are quite a lot of them, you had to pick them 
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South Africa4316 Posts
Obviously I could have picked more plain hip hop, I generally use the "Other Albums" to list albums that have something slightly different about them. In any case, there aren't that many albums that I think are consistently good. Lots of artists have a few amazing tracks, and then a few very boring tracks. Hilltop Hoods, if not consistently mind blowing, are consistently fun, that's why I chose them.
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Aotearoa39261 Posts
while im not into hiphop persay, i can appreciate talent where i see it. And indeed, all the above artists i can say that i appreciate their talents in their chosen genre. Good shit sir
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United States12607 Posts
I just bought the Blue Scholars album, I hope it's good! I'm trying to expand my musical horizons by getting some real hip-hop instead of the typical shit you hear on the radio 24/7.
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hip hop and rap are different.
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Cunninlynguists are SOOOOOOOOOOO good. I love 616 Rewind - my favorite song by them or it could also be Dying Nation :D
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South Africa4316 Posts
On September 01 2008 01:06 ctang wrote:
hip hop and rap are different.
Yes they are, rapping is the act of speaking on a hip hop album. However, there is not "rap" genre, and you'll see all the biggest "rappers" consider themselves to be hip hop. For example, Nas has an album "Hip Hop is Dead", not "Rap is dead", because rap isn't a style of music. Just to quote from wikipedia:
"Rapping (also known as emceeing, MCing, spitting, or just rhyming) is the rhythmic spoken delivery of rhymes, wordplay, and poetry, one of the elements of hip hop music and culture."
"When hip hop music first emerged, it was based around DJs who created rhythmic beats by looping breaks (smalls portions of songs emphasizing a percussive pattern) on two turntables. This was later accompanied by "rapping" (a rhythmic style of chanting). An original form of dancing, and particular styles of dress, arose among followers of this new music. These elements experienced considerable refinement and development over the course of the history of the culture."
It's a misconception that there is a genre of music called "rap".
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On September 01 2008 01:28 clazziquai wrote:
Cunninlynguists are SOOOOOOOOOOO good. I love 616 Rewind - my favorite song by them or it could also be Dying Nation :D
616 rewind is a sick tune. celph titled has an epic verse.
"kill an unborn baby and you still couldn't de-fetus" :D
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Austin10831 Posts
I think my favorite hip-hop album is:
Danger Mouse & Jemini - Ghetto Pop Life
It's just so damn fun to listen to, with DM's amazing production.
EDIT: The Mouse and the Mask with MF Doom is pretty amazing as well.
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South Africa4316 Posts
Thanks Brood, I'll get the Danger Mouse. I'm not as big an MF Doom fan though. I have his albums, but they're just too underproduced for my tastes in general. The music never seems to suit his style, and just seems tacked on at the end. That said, his rapping is awesome though, just wish he could do more songs with reasonable producers. Vauderville Villain is his only album I regularly listen to, because the whole album is produced by "external" producers so to speak.
Anyway, will give the Danger Mouse albums ago, I loved what he did with Gnarls Barkley.
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imo, College Dropout is the best Kanye West album. But to each his own. Some of these artists I definitely need to check out! (Hilltop Hoods for sure)
Thanks a lot!
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South Africa4316 Posts
On September 01 2008 01:54 Insane Lane wrote:
imo, College Dropout is the best Kanye West album. But to each his own. Some of these artists I definitely need to check out! (Hilltop Hoods for sure)
Thanks a lot!
I'll give College Dropout a listen again. I have listened to it a fair deal, but I've always almost intuitively prefered Late Registration, so I'll have to give College Dropout a proper listen. Let me know what you think if you get any of the albums!
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guide? widen your horizons young one.
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South Africa4316 Posts
On September 01 2008 03:11 HehawHehaw wrote:
guide? widen your horizons young one.
http://www.teamliquid.net/blogs/viewblog.php?topic_id=77469
I'm honestly not going to start every single blog post stating "this is not a definitive guide, simply my opinion bla bla bla". But could you please expand what you meant with your comment?
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i agree on late registration for the best kanye west album by far
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obviously the choices are going to be your opinion and bias. i thought you could at least add some of the classics.
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On September 01 2008 01:34 DhakhaR wrote:Show nested quote +On September 01 2008 01:28 clazziquai wrote:
Cunninlynguists are SOOOOOOOOOOO good. I love 616 Rewind - my favorite song by them or it could also be Dying Nation :D 616 rewind is a sick tune. celph titled has an epic verse. "kill an unborn baby and you still couldn't de-fetus" :D
also
the closest you ever came to a punchline was waiting for refreshments at the prom in 89!
omg sickk
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South Africa4316 Posts
On September 01 2008 04:25 HehawHehaw wrote:obviously the choices are going to be your opinion and bias. i thought you could at least add some of the classics.
Well, I commented on that. I do have all the classics, and I love them to pieces, but if you read to the end of the post you would have seen that I said:
You guys might notice that most of these albums are fairly new. Most popular genres evolve very rapidly, and music that was revolutionary ten years ago sounds stale to the untrained ear. Because of this, I think that its important to stay up to date in contemporary genres like hip hop and indie. This doesn't mean that old hip hop can't be appreciated, it just cannot be appreciated as instinctively.
The classics are great, and they defined the genre, but I think if we want to look at what is great in the genre for the contemporary listener, that is, what is great if measured by today's standards and all historicity is taken out of the equation, then it has to be contemporary hip hop, and not the classics. That doesn't mean that the classics aren't great in their own right, it just means that they are not great as contemporary hip hop music.
The goal of this guide wasn't to educate people about the history of a genre and look at all the important milestones of the genre, it's to get people to listen to music they might not have listened to in the past, and unfortunately, historical value in a genre can only be appreciated by someone that already appreciates the genre. When learning to appreciate a new genre of music, a front to back approach is much more effective than a chronological approach in my opinion. First appreciate what you can understand intuitively, and then move backwards to understand where that comes from.
In my metal guide I won't have any Morbid Angel cds for the same reason. They are masterpieces in their own right, but from our contemporary standing, they are only masterpieces when their historical context is taken into account.
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damn man, some sick stuff. i especially love the cunning lynguists..
I agree with Daigomi on "The classics are great, and they defined the genre, but I think if we want to look at what is great in the genre for the contemporary listener, that is, what is great if measured by today's standards and all historicity is taken out of the equation, then it has to be contemporary hip hop, and not the classics"
Possibly suggest more? =D I'm only used to listening to korean hip hop because I hated all the mainstream hip hop in America, although it's what got me into hip hop in the first place.
btw, if you can, can you post where i can download albums by full for all these artists?
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i'd recommend the classics not for any particular historical value but just because its better then 99.9% of contemporary shit i hear. maybe this stuff you recommended is great i wouldnt really know but most of the great hip hop was made over 10 years ago and thats what you need to recommend to people
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South Africa4316 Posts
Unforunately I'm not allowed to post links here, since that would be against the rules of TL and illegal. However, I'm sure if you look around on the internet and torrent sites you could find these albums.
If you're looking for more albums to enjoy you can get all the albums by the mentioned artists. Blue Scholars have a self-titled album that's quite good (although the production isn't as good as on Bayani), Cyne has a few very nice EPs, my favourite being the Growing EP. All the Kanye West albums are good, if not entirely consistent as I said earlier. Lupe Fiasco isn't bad either, although he is one of the artists that I feel makes incredible songs, and then just makes dreadfully boring songs, even more so on The Cool than on Food & Liqour.
Someone mentioned GZA earlier, and Liquid Swords by GZA is an instant classic for me, even if it's quite old by now, I think it can still be appreciated. Hmm... after that Marco Polo's album Port Authority is good, Nas's Hip Hop is Dead is a very nice hip hop concept album, some weak tracks but some awesome tracks. Also, you can get all the RJD2 albums, especially both the Gettin' Jukie Wid It albums, they are not only nice collections, but they might introduce you to other new artists which you can then explore.
Oh, and I almost forgot, CunninLynguists' A Piece of Strange is also very enjoyable.
Haha, that should keep you busy for a while.
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On September 01 2008 05:04 daz wrote:
i'd recommend the classics not for any particular historical value but just because its better then 99.9% of contemporary shit i hear. maybe this stuff you recommended is great i wouldnt really know but most of the great hip hop was made over 10 years ago and thats what you need to recommend to people
Agreed, 90s > Current.
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South Africa4316 Posts
On September 01 2008 05:57 Kula wrote:Show nested quote +On September 01 2008 05:04 daz wrote:
i'd recommend the classics not for any particular historical value but just because its better then 99.9% of contemporary shit i hear. maybe this stuff you recommended is great i wouldnt really know but most of the great hip hop was made over 10 years ago and thats what you need to recommend to people Agreed, 90s > Current.
Look, I understand what you guys are saying, but you must understand that you aren't seeing it from an ahistorical perspective either. Contemporary genres of music are always made for their context, which is why people who are in the context now enjoy current hip hop music. If you enjoy 90s hip hop then it's likely that you started enjoying hip hop in the 90s and have not enjoyed the transformation since then, or you're looking at it from a historical perspective (which isn't a bad thing at all). It's not impossible for someone to enjoy 90s hip hop music without having enjoyed it in its original context, but it's unlikely, and it's not true for most people.
The fact of the matter is that contemporary music is aimed at a contemporary audience, and as I've said, all music can be enjoyed if you try to understand the context of the music. Because of that, contemporary hip hop is not worse than the 90s (maybe on average it has less content, because it's more popular which means there are more artists, but that doesn't mean the gems of todays hip hop shine any less than those of old hip hop), it's just aimed at a different context, the context in which most modern people live their lives.
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hey daigomi thanks for the guide! cyne was exactly what i was looking for =] i should have known to download an album after all those sick nujabes tracks i've heard
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Most of Great Hip Hop was made in the 90s. When recommending Hip Hop and not "comtemporary" Hip Hop, the best albums of the 90's should be recommended.
Isn't this a guide for people who don't listen to hip hop? I doubt it makes a difference recommending them newer hip hop especially since the 90s is better.
This might as well be a Contemporary Hip Hop Guide.
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South Africa4316 Posts
On September 01 2008 06:44 Kula wrote:
Most of Great Hip Hop was made in the 90s. When recommending Hip Hop and not "comtemporary" Hip Hop, the best albums of the 90's should be recommended.
Isn't this a guide for people who don't listen to hip hop? I doubt it makes a difference recommending them newer hip hop especially since the 90s is better.
This might as well be a Contemporary Hip Hop Guide.
Firstly, you don't really have any way to back up what you are saying. Using what objective measure was the great hip hop made in the 90s?
Secondly, when recommending hip hop, the best albums for the listener (that is, the people who read this guide) should be recommended, and in general that is contemporary hip hop. Recommending classic hip hop, while flattering to the purist, is not what the new and untrained listener is looking for. The music that is recommended must be the most accessible, and since contemporary hip hop is aimed at now, and being accessible now, it is the most accessible form of hip hop for this current time.
You say that since they don't listen to hip hop in any case, they won't know the difference. Are you thus also saying that if I was to play someone who doesn't really like pop music but who is otherwise still a modern person in all ways, Patti Page's "How Much is that Doggy in the Window", the respective pop music from the 50s, rather than some popular song from the contemporary era, the average person wouldn't notice the difference, and would like both songs the same similarly?
Popular genres of music are always aimed to be accessible to as many people as possible, whether they are fans of the genre or not. The reason why the radio station would play 50 cents' "in da club" and not some X-Clan or NWA track is because the contemporary, untrained audience finds contemporary hip hop music more accessible than classic hip hop. I'm not saying 50 is any good, I'm saying the sound is designed for the audience of now, and if I can present the best of the contemporary sound, then that would be a much more useful guide to listeners of now, than some classic guide in which they don't truly connect with or enjoy the music.
For the purist, there are some classic albums that might never be surpassed. Some albums which change hip hop forever. However, disregarding this historical value of those albums, the tracks on those albums would rarely cut it in the modern context. You can't disagree with that. What you differ with me on, fundamentally, is what you think the purpose of my guide should be. You think it should have the five most important hip hop albums ever made on it, while I think it should have the five most entertaining or enriching albums for the moment on it. Fortunately this is my guide, with my clearly defined purpose of making new genres accessible and enjoyable for people, thus my albums can stay.
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not bad daigomi. not bad at all.
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On September 01 2008 07:02 Daigomi wrote:Show nested quote +On September 01 2008 06:44 Kula wrote:
Most of Great Hip Hop was made in the 90s. When recommending Hip Hop and not "comtemporary" Hip Hop, the best albums of the 90's should be recommended.
Isn't this a guide for people who don't listen to hip hop? I doubt it makes a difference recommending them newer hip hop especially since the 90s is better.
This might as well be a Contemporary Hip Hop Guide. Firstly, you don't really have any way to back up what you are saying. Using what objective measure was the great hip hop made in the 90s?
The best rappers of the genre are from the 90s. Where else would the great hip hop be?
Secondly, when recommending hip hop, the best albums for the listener (that is, the people who read this guide) should be recommended, and in general that is contemporary hip hop.
And how do you back this up? I guess we disagree here on what to recommend.
Recommending classic hip hop, while flattering to the purist, is not what the new and untrained listener is looking for.
That's assuming music now is more accessible. And I don't neccesarily recommend the classics, just saying that the 90s are a good listen(or even better listen) as well and shouldn't be ignored.
The music that is recommended must be the most accessible, and since contemporary hip hop is aimed at now, and being accessible now, it is the most accessible form of hip hop for this current time.
I disagree with recommended music having the be the most accessible. Good music should be recommended, dispite age.
You say that since they don't listen to hip hop in any case, they won't know the difference. Are you thus also saying that if I was to play someone who doesn't really like pop music but who is otherwise still a modern person in all ways, Patti Page's "How Much is that Doggy in the Window", the respective pop music from the 50s, rather than some popular song from the contemporary era, the average person wouldn't notice the difference, and would like both songs the same similarly?
I'm not saying they won't know the difference, I'm saying it makes no difference what you recommend as long as it's good.
Popular genres of music are always aimed to be accessible to as many people as possible, whether they are fans of the genre or not. The reason why the radio station would play 50 cents' "in da club" and not some X-Clan or NWA track is because the contemporary, untrained audience finds contemporary hip hop music more accessible than classic hip hop.
I always thought it's because they always play newer music instead of oldies.
I'm not saying 50 is any good, I'm saying the sound is designed for the audience of now, and if I can present the best of the contemporary sound, then that would be a much more useful guide to listeners of now, than some classic guide in which they don't truly connect with or enjoy the music.
That's why this should be a guide to Contemporary Hip Hop.
I also disagree with others not truly connecting with older music. If Tupac was alive, I'd still connect and enjoy his music the same as I enjoy his older music.
For the purist, there are some classic albums that might never be surpassed. Some albums which change hip hop forever. However, disregarding this historical value of those albums, the tracks on those albums would rarely cut it in the modern context. You can't disagree with that.
I don't care about their historical context. Biggie Smalls will always be a better listen than Kanye West to me.
What you differ with me on, fundamentally, is what you think the purpose of my guide should be. You think it should have the five most important hip hop albums ever made on it, while I think it should have the five most entertaining or enriching albums for the moment on it. Fortunately this is my guide, with my clearly defined purpose of making new genres accessible and enjoyable for people, thus my albums can stay.
I think recommending good albums from all of Hip Hop is better than just recommending newer Hip Hop. Good music is good music to me, age doesn't matter.
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i wont lie and say i read the entire wall of text of OP's last post, but i did get through the first paragraph and i must say, its not liek the 90's were a million fucking years ago, it's still acessible and tons of kids i know when they get exposed to real hip hop from the 90's they get really into it.
anyway i dont even have a problem with your thread or anything but maybe you should have titled it guide to comteporary underground hip hop, because thats all it contains. When i read Guide to Hip Hop, i kind of expected it to include some of the best hiphop, not recent stuff that nobody ever heard of but you think is good
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South Africa4316 Posts
On September 01 2008 07:34 Kula wrote:Show nested quote +On September 01 2008 07:02 Daigomi wrote:On September 01 2008 06:44 Kula wrote:
Most of Great Hip Hop was made in the 90s. When recommending Hip Hop and not "comtemporary" Hip Hop, the best albums of the 90's should be recommended.
Isn't this a guide for people who don't listen to hip hop? I doubt it makes a difference recommending them newer hip hop especially since the 90s is better.
This might as well be a Contemporary Hip Hop Guide. Show nested quote +Firstly, you don't really have any way to back up what you are saying. Using what objective measure was the great hip hop made in the 90s? The best rappers of the genre are from the 90s. Where else would the great hip hop be? Show nested quote +Secondly, when recommending hip hop, the best albums for the listener (that is, the people who read this guide) should be recommended, and in general that is contemporary hip hop. And how do you back this up? I guess we disagree here on what to recommend. Show nested quote +Recommending classic hip hop, while flattering to the purist, is not what the new and untrained listener is looking for. That's assuming music now is more accessible. And I don't neccesarily recommend the classics, just saying that the 90s are a good listen(or even better listen) as well and shouldn't be ignored. Show nested quote +The music that is recommended must be the most accessible, and since contemporary hip hop is aimed at now, and being accessible now, it is the most accessible form of hip hop for this current time. I disagree with recommended music having the be the most accessible. Good music should be recommended, dispite age. Show nested quote +You say that since they don't listen to hip hop in any case, they won't know the difference. Are you thus also saying that if I was to play someone who doesn't really like pop music but who is otherwise still a modern person in all ways, Patti Page's "How Much is that Doggy in the Window", the respective pop music from the 50s, rather than some popular song from the contemporary era, the average person wouldn't notice the difference, and would like both songs the same similarly? I'm not saying they won't know the difference, I'm saying it makes no difference what you recommend as long as it's good. Show nested quote +Popular genres of music are always aimed to be accessible to as many people as possible, whether they are fans of the genre or not. The reason why the radio station would play 50 cents' "in da club" and not some X-Clan or NWA track is because the contemporary, untrained audience finds contemporary hip hop music more accessible than classic hip hop. I always thought it's because they always play newer music instead of oldies. Show nested quote +I'm not saying 50 is any good, I'm saying the sound is designed for the audience of now, and if I can present the best of the contemporary sound, then that would be a much more useful guide to listeners of now, than some classic guide in which they don't truly connect with or enjoy the music. That's why this should be a guide to Contemporary Hip Hop. I also disagree with others not truly connecting with older music. If Tupac was alive, I'd still connect and enjoy his music the same as I enjoy his older music. Show nested quote +For the purist, there are some classic albums that might never be surpassed. Some albums which change hip hop forever. However, disregarding this historical value of those albums, the tracks on those albums would rarely cut it in the modern context. You can't disagree with that. I don't care about their historical context. Biggie Smalls will always be a better listen than Kanye West to me. Show nested quote +What you differ with me on, fundamentally, is what you think the purpose of my guide should be. You think it should have the five most important hip hop albums ever made on it, while I think it should have the five most entertaining or enriching albums for the moment on it. Fortunately this is my guide, with my clearly defined purpose of making new genres accessible and enjoyable for people, thus my albums can stay. I think recommending good albums from all of Hip Hop is better than just recommending newer Hip Hop. Good music is good music to me, age doesn't matter.
You don't provide any support for your first argument, but I'll provide support for the argument that the best rappers for hip hop are not from the 90s. Since there are more people involved in making hip hop these days, and since more people see it as a potential occupation, there's a greater talent pool in hip hop than there used to be, hence chances are that there are better rappers today than in the 90s, the only thing might be that they aren't the popular ones, which is why I didn't recommend any 50cents here.
My second statement I back up that the best albums for the listener should be recommended because that is the goal of my blog, but secondly I back up the fact that contemporary hip hop is the best for the listener based on its accessibility, which means it can be understood intuitively by the listener.
I'm not just assuming that modern hip hop is more accessible, I'm making a strong argument for it. You're not making any strong arguments why classic hip hop is more accessible than modern hip hop, and in all honesty, I don't think you really can, because hip hop then was created for the context then, and was at its peak accessibility then, not now. I agree that the 90s are a great listen, I love everything from the 90s, and I agree with you that they are classics, I just disagree with you that are as easy to listen to for amodern listener as contemporary (but good) hip hop is. I'm not comparing 2pac with 50 cents, I'm comparing 2pac to the best of contemporary times, and saying that even though they might be at the same level musically (debateable, but I think they are at least fairly similar), the contemporary hip hop is easier to listen ot than old hip hop for the contemporary listener, because it was created and aimed at the contemporary listener.
To your fourth point, my purpose is not to have a definitive guide to the genre, but to have a quick introduction that will allow people to listen to an artist and enjoy it, and from there on they can either ask for more recommendations, or go on their own journey of exploration. Yes, all good music should be recommended, but if I have only five spots to fill I'm not going to recommend something that is "good" but not as easy to listen to over something that is "good' and easy to listen to and understand. If I were to introduce you to art, and you were a completely untrained person whose tastes were unfettered by the ideas of post-modernism and you simply wanted to enjoy the art, would you recommend that I introduce you to something as directly beautiful and meant to entertain like Rococo art, or to something like contemporary art? The situation's are reversed here, because contemporary art is not directly accessible, while classic art is, but the point remains that in order for you to first generate an appreciation of something, after which the appreciation will allow your continued interest, that which is most accessible should be recommended first. The reason why the layman doesn't appreciate modern art is not because there's nothing to appreciate about it, but because it doesn't have the context to appreciate it in, a context which can be created by first understanding the more easily understood classic art.
"How Much is that Doggy In the Window" was a classic of its time, covered by innumerable artists. It was thus "good" in its time. So would you want me to play that for you in order to convert you to a pop music lover, since it is "good"? If you could only choose one pop song to play to someone thoroughly modern, would it be "How Much is that Doggy In the Window" because its a good song regardless of its time? Music is always contextual. Always. You cannot say that good music is good regardless of the context. The above example should prove to you that if you wanted to be introduced to a genre of music, you wouldn't want "good" music introduced to you regardless of whether you understand the context of the music. You'd want "good" music introduced to you with which you can understand the context the best (contemporary music), and you can then use that music as a launching pad to explore other musics and their contexts.
Sixth point, why do they play new music instead of oldies? Do you think it's simply because we have heard the oldies too much and are bored with it? I can promise you that most youth today have heard much more contemporary music than 50s music, so if it's just about the music being new to the listener, then they should play 50s music. No, the reason they play new music is because music is constantly evolving to keep up with evolving trends in a contemporary world, and because of that, music becomes outdated. That does not mean the music is any less good today than it was ten years ago, it just means the music isn't as easy to identify with.
The purpose of the guide is to introduce people to a genre of music, hip hop. The most effective avenue to this is to introduce them to contemporary hip hop. The guide is an introduction to all hip hop, done through contemporary hip hop. The purpose of this is to get them to begin their journey in the genre of hip hop, a journey which they can take to classic hip hop, to political hip hop, to wherever they wish to. The purpose of this guide is to introduce them to hip hop, and the most effective way to do this is to introduce them to hip hop they might actually like. Furthermore, you might still connect to tupac, but that's because you're firstly already in the hip hop scene, secondly because you've already connected to him, probably more in his era, and lastly and most importantly, because if tupac was still making music today it would be contemporary music, not classic music.
You say that BIG will always be better for you, but you once again disregard your own situatedness in history. You associate with BIG more than with Kanye, you connect more to their context, musically, than to the modern musical context. Do not make the mistake of thinking that you have somehow transcended your historical embeddedness to become an objective appreciater of hip hop. You listen to hip hop in a specific context, and it is because of this that you appreciate his tracks more than Kanye's. However, do a double blind experiment. Give the general population two albums, supposedly created at the same time by the same artist, one consisting of classic hip hop tracks, and one of contemporary hip hop tracks, both similarly good for their context (if that good somehow be objectively measured), and I can assure you that most people will say that the contemporary tracks are more enjoyable. Obviously I cannot prove this since I don't have such a test, and such a test would demand some people who have somehow lived under a hip hop rock for the last twenty years without losing any participation in other aspects of society, but there is no evidence that this will not happen as I have said, and I've given tons of arguments for why it would.
Like you say, recommending good albums from all eras might have been good, even just to offer a historical perspective. However, that was not the approach I went for. I wanted to hook people in by offering them a glimpse of how amazing hip hop can be musically, and then let them go on their own way from there. Your way would have consisted of teaching people about the history of hip hop so that they could appreciate the albums recommended, and then after that hoping they continue to enjoy the music. Maybe you have more faith than me that people will be willing to listen to something that would be close to completely foreign to them (contemporary hip hop is foreign enough as it is), and then put the effort into learning to enjoy the music. I ironically learn to appreciate music like this myself. I study the entire context that the music was created in in great detail, and then I try to start with the classics, and work my way up to modern music so that I can get a historical understanding of a genre. However, this is a lot of work, even for me who is someone committed to learning about music. I often don't find the music I start listening to enjoyable, and I often have to force myself to listen to music I don't like to for days before my ear grow accoustomed to it. I do this because I believe it's the way to get the most complete understanding of a genre, but you need a lot of motivation to do that. By getting people to enjoy some of the newer offerings of the genre, they might get the motivation to study the genre in more depth, thus allowing them to gain a fuller understanding. That's what I'm trying to do.
Just for interest's sake, try to ignore all your prejudices, all that you know about what music stands for, and what means what in music, and listen to these two tracks:
+ Show Spoiler +http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1-Z7sKHKZIc
Consider that you are just a normal person, no specific preconceptions about what is good, and what is not good. You come to my blog to experience the new genre of metal, what would more likely make you listen to the genre, the first track or the second? In the metal world, the first track is arguably a "better" track than the second one, it's a classic track. Is it accessible at all? Not really. Could you see the second track being accessible if you had an interest in listening to metal? Yes, possibly. Thus the second track will more likely get you to listen to metal than the first track, and ultimately more likely to get you to become a metal purist than the first track, even though that might seem paradoxical.
Just to make this clear, I'm not going to have Cloud Connected on my Metal list of tracks, just because it is more accessible. All in all, I try to do both your method and mine. I want to present music that is accessible while at the same time trying to present music that has value to it and can be appreciated across multiple contexes. These albums I've presented here are albums which I believe to be both accessible right now, and have long-term value (hence the descriptions about what I like). In metal, as in all my other genres, I will attempt to do the same thing: present a selection of albums which can be enjoyed but which I also believe hold some value as musical pieces. Furthermore, metal, at least the metal my guide will be a guide to, is not a popular form of music, and is thus less influenced by contextual changes outside of the genre.
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On September 01 2008 01:35 BroOd wrote:I think my favorite hip-hop album is: Danger Mouse & Jemini - Ghetto Pop Life It's just so damn fun to listen to, with DM's amazing production. EDIT: The Mouse and the Mask with MF Doom is pretty amazing as well.
so true, quality album, how on earth did u read my mind hah was about to post that
the grey album is pretty cool by dangermouse
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Honestly, to all the people complaining about how this list isn't 90s and old school enough, at least be glad that he picked out good underground artists and not just mainstream. And the one mainstream artist he does pick is good, at least. He didn't plop down a Young Jeezy album or anything. I mean, c'mon. RJD2, Cunninlynguists, Brother Ali, to me they're practically old school anyway. There are so many different styles of hip-hop and time periods of hip-hop, that Daigomi could make tons of different guides for just hip-hop. However, he does well with just one and provides a nice balance between contemporary sounds and the tradition of old school hip-hop.
Now I show my friends a lot of the 90s hip hop I love. 2pac, Biggie, Dr. Dre, Wu-Tang, A Tribe Called Quest, Nas, etc. But they don't really connect with the music as much as they do with more recent hip hop because simply put, it's just too inaccessible to the modern ear. It's all just too raw and the lyrics are just too forceful for people to instantly delve into. But if Daigomi can get a few more people to listen to good hip-hop instead of getting turned away by the trash on the radio, then job well done! So cut him some slack, cause I think he did a good and proper intro to hip-hop.
Remember, it's a guide, not a montage or tribute.
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South Africa4316 Posts
On September 01 2008 07:58 daz wrote:
i wont lie and say i read the entire wall of text of OP's last post, but i did get through the first paragraph and i must say, its not liek the 90's were a million fucking years ago, it's still acessible and tons of kids i know when they get exposed to real hip hop from the 90's they get really into it.
anyway i dont even have a problem with your thread or anything but maybe you should have titled it guide to comteporary underground hip hop, because thats all it contains. When i read Guide to Hip Hop, i kind of expected it to include some of the best hiphop, not recent stuff that nobody ever heard of but you think is good
I know that people can enjoy the music of the 90s, but they mostly enjoy it in a historical and contextual sense, rather than a purely musical sense. I'm not saying that the music doesn't influence their liking of it, I'm just saying that their historical understanding also influences their liking. And in terms of popular music, fifteen years is a massively long time. Led Zeppelin released Led Zeppelin II in 1970, by 1985 punk rock had basically come and gone, and rock music had practically been wiped off the map, only to be revived at the end of the eighties. Fifteen years is the difference between Nirvana and Indie Rock, between classical music and rock and roll, between Elvis and fucking Led Zeppelin. 15 Years ia shit long time in popular music
Disregarding that, read through the second, considerably bigger, wall of text if you want to know why I didn't title it Guide to Contemporary Hip Hop. I can understand your disappointment, you misunderstood the purpose of the blog. That is, however, not my mistake as I have often made it clear what the purpose of the blog is, including in blog posts before this one. I never said I would write a definitive guide to the genre, and never intended to do so. I only intended to help people get into the genre, and to show people that each genre has a value.
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South Africa4316 Posts
Haha, I should probably point out that I don't have a problem with your comments either, they generated interesting discussion. I disagree with your comments, but I don't have a problem with them 
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wow
i had some angry kid internet death threat written to all the dudes trying to downplay this but i refreshed the page and it seems you guys did it in a more gentle fashion.
much props for this and also for showing love to the blue scholars coming from across the globe. hopefully a lot of the metal heads here will take a chance to listen to some of this. maybe next time a thread about something related to rap is created, there won't be any haters.
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On September 01 2008 08:30 Daigomi wrote:Show nested quote +On September 01 2008 07:34 Kula wrote:On September 01 2008 07:02 Daigomi wrote:On September 01 2008 06:44 Kula wrote:
You don't provide any support for your first argument, but I'll provide support for the argument that the best rappers for hip hop are not from the 90s. Since there are more people involved in making hip hop these days, and since more people see it as a potential occupation, there's a greater talent pool in hip hop than there used to be, hence chances are that there are better rappers today than in the 90s, the only thing might be that they aren't the popular ones, which is why I didn't recommend any 50cents here. The best rappers of Hip-Hop imo is all from the 90s. Who is arguably the best rapper of today, Jay Z, also from the 90s. Basically, I can name 5 five hip-hop artists of all time but almost none would be from this period. That may change but 90s is still considered the Golden Age of Hip Hop. My second statement I back up that the best albums for the listener should be recommended because that is the goal of my blog, but secondly I back up the fact that contemporary hip hop is the best for the listener based on its accessibility, which means it can be understood intuitively by the listener. This may be true but a guide to hip hop with only a portion of hip hop doesn't make it a hip hop guide, more a current hip hop guide or even an introduction to modern hip hop, but I digress, a hip hop guide without(arguably) the golden age of the genre just isn't the same. No problem though since this is your guide. I'm not just assuming that modern hip hop is more accessible, I'm making a strong argument for it. You're not making any strong arguments why classic hip hop is more accessible than modern hip hop, and in all honesty, I don't think you really can, because hip hop then was created for the context then, and was at its peak accessibility then, not now. Accessibility shouldn't be a factor when its a guide about hip hop. My oppinion but I see your point. I agree that the 90s are a great listen, I love everything from the 90s, and I agree with you that they are classics, I just disagree with you that are as easy to listen to for amodern listener as contemporary (but good) hip hop is.
Yeah, we'll have to disagree here. I see many people of this age not associating with modern hip hop and accept oldies and vise versa.
I'm not comparing 2pac with 50 cents, I'm comparing 2pac to the best of contemporary times, and saying that even though they might be at the same level musically (debateable, but I think they are at least fairly similar), the contemporary hip hop is easier to listen ot than old hip hop for the contemporary listener, because it was created and aimed at the contemporary listener.
If 2pac is that comparable, he should get a mention at least. But again, acessibility is very different. I would be considered in this time but I believe the oldies are better. Each person is different and only showing 1 side of hip hop in hip hop guide is weird to me.
To your fourth point, my purpose is not to have a definitive guide to the genre, but to have a quick introduction that will allow people to listen to an artist and enjoy it, and from there on they can either ask for more recommendations, or go on their own journey of exploration. Yes, all good music should be recommended, but if I have only five spots to fill I'm not going to recommend something that is "good" but not as easy to listen to over something that is "good' and easy to listen to and understand. If I were to introduce you to art, and you were a completely untrained person whose tastes were unfettered by the ideas of post-modernism and you simply wanted to enjoy the art, would you recommend that I introduce you to something as directly beautiful and meant to entertain like Rococo art, or to something like contemporary art? The situation's are reversed here, because contemporary art is not directly accessible, while classic art is, but the point remains that in order for you to first generate an appreciation of something, after which the appreciation will allow your continued interest, that which is most accessible should be recommended first. The reason why the layman doesn't appreciate modern art is not because there's nothing to appreciate about it, but because it doesn't have the context to appreciate it in, a context which can be created by first understanding the more easily understood classic art.
Oh, I think your guide is good, I just wanted to say the 90's should have gotten a mention. Good job on the guide though.
Sixth point, why do they play new music instead of oldies? Do you think it's simply because we have heard the oldies too much and are bored with it? I can promise you that most youth today have heard much more contemporary music than 50s music, so if it's just about the music being new to the listener, then they should play 50s music. No, the reason they play new music is because music is constantly evolving to keep up with evolving trends in a contemporary world, and because of that, music becomes outdated. That does not mean the music is any less good today than it was ten years ago, it just means the music isn't as easy to identify with.
The thing is they do play 50 music because its new. Radio Hip Hop has degenerated. :[ Usually only the underground is good.
The purpose of the guide is to introduce people to a genre of music, hip hop. The most effective avenue to this is to introduce them to contemporary hip hop. The guide is an introduction to all hip hop, done through contemporary hip hop. The purpose of this is to get them to begin their journey in the genre of hip hop, a journey which they can take to classic hip hop, to political hip hop, to wherever they wish to. The purpose of this guide is to introduce them to hip hop, and the most effective way to do this is to introduce them to hip hop they might actually like. Furthermore, you might still connect to tupac, but that's because you're firstly already in the hip hop scene, secondly because you've already connected to him, probably more in his era, and lastly and most importantly, because if tupac was still making music today it would be contemporary music, not classic music.
You say that BIG will always be better for you, but you once again disregard your own situatedness in history. You associate with BIG more than with Kanye, you connect more to their context, musically, than to the modern musical context. Do not make the mistake of thinking that you have somehow transcended your historical embeddedness to become an objective appreciater of hip hop. You listen to hip hop in a specific context, and it is because of this that you appreciate his tracks more than Kanye's. However, do a double blind experiment. Give the general population two albums, supposedly created at the same time by the same artist, one consisting of classic hip hop tracks, and one of contemporary hip hop tracks, both similarly good for their context (if that good somehow be objectively measured), and I can assure you that most people will say that the contemporary tracks are more enjoyablle. Obviously I cannot prove this since I don't have such a test, and such a test e. Obviously I cannot prove this since I don't have such a test, and such a test would demand some people who have somehow lived under a hip hop rock for the last twenty years without losing any participation in other aspects of society, but there is no evidence that this will not happen as I have said, and I've given tons of arguments for why it would.
I enjoy his music over kanyes because of preference, not under any context. I've listened to contemporary music before listening to oldies btw. Biggie is just better for me, regardless of time.
Like you say, recommending good albums from all eras might have been good, even just to offer a historical perspective. However, that was not the approach I went for. I wanted to hook people in by offering them a glimpse of how amazing hip hop can be musically, and then let them go on their own way from there. Your way would have consisted of teaching people about the history of hip hop so that they could appreciate the albums recommended, and then after that hoping they continue to enjoy the music. Maybe you have more faith than me that people will be willing to listen to something that would be close to completely foreign to them (contemporary hip hop is foreign enough as it is), and then put the effort into learning to enjoy the music. I ironically learn to appreciate music like this myself. I study the entire context that the music was created in in great detail, and then I try to start with the classics, and work my way up to modern music so that I can get a historical understanding of a genre. However, this is a lot of work, even for me who is someone committed to learning about music. I often don't find the music I start listening to enjoyable, and I often have to force myself to listen to music I don't like to for days before my ear grow accoustomed to it. I do this because I believe it's the way to get the most complete understanding of a genre, but you need a lot of motivation to do that. By getting people to enjoy some of the newer offerings of the genre, they might get the motivation to study the genre in more depth, thus allowing them to gain a fuller understanding. That's what I'm trying to do. Just for interest's sake, try to ignore all your prejudices, all that you know about what music stands for, and what means what in music, and listen to these two tracks: + Show Spoiler +Consider that you are just a normal person, no specific preconceptions about what is good, and what is not good. You come to my blog to experience the new genre of metal, what would more likely make you listen to the genre, the first track or the second? In the metal world, the first track is arguably a "better" track than the second one, it's a classic track. Is it accessible at all? Not really. Could you see the second track being accessible if you had an interest in listening to metal? Yes, possibly. Thus the second track will more likely get you to listen to metal than the first track, and ultimately more likely to get you to become a metal purist than the first track, even though that might seem paradoxical.
I'll check out the links in a bit.
Just to make this clear, I'm not going to have Cloud Connected on my Metal list of tracks, just because it is more accessible. All in all, I try to do both your method and mine. I want to present music that is accessible while at the same time trying to present music that has value to it and can be appreciated across multiple contexes. These albums I've presented here are albums which I believe to be both accessible right now, and have long-term value (hence the descriptions about what I like). In metal, as in all my other genres, I will attempt to do the same thing: present a selection of albums which can be enjoyed but which I also believe hold some value as musical pieces. Furthermore, metal, at least the metal my guide will be a guide to, is not a popular form of music, and is thus less influenced by contextual changes outside of the genre.
Nah, the guide is very good, just want people to be introduced to some oldies too. =]
Here are my Top 5, Huge 2pac and Biggie fan
All Eyez on Me -2pac
Me Against The World -2pac
Ready To Die - Biggie
Illmatic - Nas
Capital Punishment - Big Pun
Edit: The quality of the first link makes it impossible to listen to lol.
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check out blu & exile - below the heavens.
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Aotearoa39261 Posts
lol Daigomi, fucking monster comebacks o.O you give one line responses too much credit haha
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I could list dozens of classic albums, but since we are trying to stay "recent" I'll quote a post I made in a music forum I'm part of:
(These albums are mostly 2007 releases)
Dälek - Deadverse Massive, Vol. 1: Dälek Rarities 1999-2006
Common - Finding Forever
Pharoahe Monch - Desire
Killah Priest - The Offering
Zimbabwe Legit - House of Stone (featuring YZ, Jungle Brothers, Unspoken Heard, Dead Prez)
Blue Sky Black Death / Hell Razah - Razah's Ladder
Marco Polo - Port Authority
Blu & Exile - Below the Heavens
Hell Razah - Renaissance Child
UGK - Underground Kingz
EL-P - I'll Sleep When You're Dead
I liked your choices in the post-rock thread more. Nothx on the Kanye 
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South Africa4316 Posts
On September 01 2008 13:29 Phoned wrote:I could list dozens of classic albums, but since we are trying to stay "recent" I'll quote a post I made in a music forum I'm part of: (These albums are mostly 2007 releases) Dälek - Deadverse Massive, Vol. 1: Dälek Rarities 1999-2006 Common - Finding Forever Pharoahe Monch - Desire Killah Priest - The Offering Zimbabwe Legit - House of Stone (featuring YZ, Jungle Brothers, Unspoken Heard, Dead Prez) Blue Sky Black Death / Hell Razah - Razah's Ladder Marco Polo - Port Authority Blu & Exile - Below the Heavens Hell Razah - Renaissance Child UGK - Underground Kingz EL-P - I'll Sleep When You're Dead I liked your choices in the post-rock thread more. Nothx on the Kanye
Hmm, I'm missing one or two of those, but in all honesty I find the Kanye more entertaining than most of those albums on the list. The peak of the Common album is definitely the Kanye track on it, although "A Dream" is pretty damn nice as well (and I surprisingly like tons of songs featuring Will.I.Am, which is making me reconsider what I think of him...).
The Pharaoahe Monch album has disappointed me, after hearing it praised so much I expected it to be magical and it just hasn't taken my breath away. I've listened to it four or five times now, and everytime I think maybe I missed something on it last time, and it just never catches my attention when I play it.
I like the Marco Polo album (you'll see I recommended it somewhere in this thread as well), it's just less interesting than the Kanye West album to me. The music lacks some diversity, and it's a damn long album at that, but everything is good. The Blu & Exile is also good, I considered putting it on the list, but once again it just doesn't stand out enough for me.
I really need to get that EL-P album, it's been on my server for a few weeks now, and I've just forgotten to get it from there. Should go do that now
I dunno, I understand how people can not like Kanye, he's commercial and his music is undeniably commercial. However, his rhymes are good and much clever than they are given credit for, and his beats are undeniably good, and I mean, that's what hip hop is all about isn't it? That's something I like about hip hop (and indie music), the commerical side can often be as good as the non-commercial side of it. There are some gems in the underground, but also some gems in the mainstream which can be enjoyed by the masses and appreciated by the purists.
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outsidaz made pretty good music, older stuff by eminem+d12 and lauryn hill is nice as well.
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Daigomi wrote:
Secondly, when recommending hip hop, the best albums for the listener (that is, the people who read this guide) should be recommended, and in general that is contemporary hip hop.
Credibility: Lost.
For all new hip hop listeners download pretty much any song by these geniuses:
Tupac ( Any album)
Notorious B.I.G. ( Any album)
Big Pun ( Recommended album: Endangered Species)
Big L ( Any album)
Scarface ( Any album)
Rakim ( Recommended album: "Paid In Full")
KRS ONE ( Any album)
Nas ( Recommended album: Illmatic)
Jay-Z ( Recommended album: The Blueprint)
Snoop Dogg( Any album)
Of course there are thousands of great artists, and great to everyone for different reasons. but I'd say that is the 10 greatest MCs.
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my vote goes to jedi mind tricks - violent by design
masters of the universe is definitely up there though :D
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South Africa4316 Posts
On September 04 2008 03:23 HehawHehaw wrote:Show nested quote +Daigomi wrote:
Secondly, when recommending hip hop, the best albums for the listener (that is, the people who read this guide) should be recommended, and in general that is contemporary hip hop. Credibility: Lost. For all new hip hop listeners download pretty much any song by these geniuses: Tupac ( Any album) Notorious B.I.G. ( Any album) Big Pun ( Recommended album: Endangered Species) Big L ( Any album) Scarface ( Any album) Rakim ( Recommended album: "Paid In Full") KRS ONE ( Any album) Nas ( Recommended album: Illmatic) Jay-Z ( Recommended album: The Blueprint) Snoop Dogg( Any album) Of course there are thousands of great artists, and great to everyone for different reasons. but I'd say that is the 10 greatest MCs.
I don't disagree with you on that, and I own most, if not all of those artists' discographies. However, since you don't even attempt to substantiate any argument you make, and since you've been aggressive since the begining without even reading my point of view, I'm banning you from the blog. The other guys that disagreed can stay, they at least offered arguments, you on the other hand are just being a cunt.
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I find it impressive how you can still keep good manner and tone in your blogs and even take the time to write long replies to posts that don't deserve one.
Hope you can keep going til the end!
As for the content of your music blogs, I have lots of stuff I have to listen to right now, so I'll check out your recommendations when I'm in need of new stuff
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