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Hello Reader,
I've never written one of these before, so pardon the awkwardness as it does feel a bit weird. Lately I've become really salty and frustrated about many things, from the politics of esports, to personal failures/shortcomings, or even just "that one random thing that really set me off that day". I could probably write a hundred blogs about the many experiences I've had since entering this crazy world of "esports", and for better or for worse I'd redo everything all over again. The bad things like Z33kTV, the veralynn drama, losing the "Day 9: Think you can Cast?" contest, and the good things like making BaseTradeTV, meeting Zombiegrub, flying around the country, they all make up who I am now, and I embrace all of them. However, there's been a lot of shit along the way too. Some of you know about what I'm about to talk about, but many of you have only heard joking references to it on stream, my "When I finally quit SC2" folder. On my journey through Starcraft, I've had some bad experiences-
Scratch that, I've experienced some really terrible things*
-and I always made sure to document them, so as not to forget when something or someone did a bad thing, and to not let it effect to me in the future. At some point though, especially when we were smaller and growing, bad things started happening to me as well. Interactions with not-to-be-named organizations, and often times with players. I'm going to post a screenshot, and only one, and I'll explain why a little bit later. This is from when Zombiegrub and I got to stream on the official WCS Channel back in 2013 for the first time. I thought it was a pretty awesome bench mark in our "casting career" and would gain me some respect, however I very quickly learned that wasn't going to be the case: ![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/sIRqT9T.png)
This is probably the most tame thing I could find and censor without revealing who was saying it, but trust when I say there's been far worse. The worst part about not being from a team/major organization, an ex-pro, or a popular personality, coming into all this was how badly I was often treated. I'd not get invited to games, I'd often times be ignored for simple requests, and in some cases I wasn't even allowed to cast matches at all. It was a real struggle getting to the point where I could even get players or admins to respond to me, so when I got shit, I'd make sure to document it. My "When I finally quit SC2" folder contained hundreds of files, mostly photos and screenshots, but some audio recordings and such of just terrible things. Remember in that first season of WCS when over half of the players from Europe couldn't sign up due to ESL/Admins messing up the brackets? It was horrible watching them all circle jerk each other for their good job, then continue to make fun of players for "not having enough APM to sign up in time". This was documented.
Teams extorting sponsors for additional money? This was documented.
Players harassing me on a personal level or for my casting? This was documented.
Organizations being shady as fuck? This was documented.
All of this stuff, for years, I've just been building up in this one tiny folder that I was planning to just publicize the day I left starcraft, my way of calling down the thunder with a nuclear launch and getting a final laugh. I didn't really consider dedicating so much of my life to SC2 at any point, and over time just didn't think about it much, but now that I have I realize I can't afford to release any of this stuff. It'd hurt my friends, cause drama, and definitely blacklist me from any future involvement due to whistleblower status. Frustrating is the realm of politics.
Many of you would probably ask that I share most of what I have, and if you get me drunk at an event and are gullible enough to believe the words that slurr out of my mouth, you might one day learn some of these dirty secrets (some of you already have). But I can't do that. The reason I am only posting this one screenshot is because tonight I deleted this folder full of everyone's ugly history and it's all that's left.The more I obsess and think about the past, and how disgusted I was with most, the more salty I become every single day.
I often times just get written off as some angry nerd, a reddit troll, a goofball, an idiot, a friend zoned loser etc, but the reason I don't let any of that get to me is because I don't do what I do for the admiration. I do this because I want to, I enjoy it, I get to live out my dream of travelling away from my little farm town and I get to make many friends while doing it. I feel all this bullshit that has been piling up on my desktop for years has just been weighing me down and making me an angrier, very salty, person more than it needs to.
I'm hoping I can move forward with a more positive attitude, and I really want to enter 2016 not being angry and upset with everyone else. I've lost a lot of my motivation in recent months, despite the dedication you see the to constant broadcasting, and I don't want anything else holding me back. We have such cool goals for next year and I want to hit them all. Anyways, thanks for reading my cool story, bro. It probably had nothing to do with you, but hopefully it was at least interesting.
Oh, and about the person in the screenshot, I gain nothing from exposing who they are, and I don't feel the need to ruin anyone's opinion of their favourite player, so don't bother guessing because I won't be confirming who it is and you're probably wrong.
 
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Writing your thoughts out is weird.
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1001 YEARS KESPAJAIL22272 Posts
wowowow I'm glad you deleted that folder
ps i luv u
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It's really a nice symbol that you want to have a good positive time and start fresh.
You seem like the sort of person who would delete their WoW character in order to quit instead of just not logging in, because if it's no longer there you can't even consider it as an option. You've put some drama behind you and you can just continue happily. I think you'll appreciate this decision more and more as time goes on.
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Not sure how i feel about this. On one hand, i'm happy to have drama-free sc2, as i don't think it's helpful to the scene. But i do like knowing that the players i root for, foreigners especially, are decent people as well as players. I feel like i can get behind them more, and really appreciate those who go out of their way to be kind human beings. Id hate to think that a team/player that i like is really disrespectful to others in the scene, especially casters, while i'm none the wiser and cheering my heart out for them.
So i guess i'm glad, but just wished that this wasn't even an issue to begin with. :/
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Jesus, I need that folder. I promise I wont share
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Germany25657 Posts
On November 22 2015 15:49 SetGuitarsToKill wrote:
Jesus, I need that folder. I promise I wont share
Yeah no one is going to believe that 
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I'd so sell that folder to esports magazines. #Rifkingate incoming.
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I'm really glad you deleted it instead of releasing , sounds like an awful idea to collect all the bad things instead of just at least trying to let them slide. You said you wanted to save them to not let them effect you in the future but sounds to me like it would do the opposite!
How about you start a folder now about the positive things instead? ^^
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I will not talk about anything except the screenshot which I think is not that unreasonable from the player, forcing players to wait when they are both ready is the worst thing you can do and every pro player will tell you so.
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Restore it and move it to a physical drive, stash that drive in a portable safe, put that safe in a deposit box at the bank  but dont delete it 
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East Gorteau22261 Posts
Was my pizza in the folder tho
Jokes aside; you do a lot of good work, I really hope you never doubt that. Don't let anyone tell you otherwise- or maybe let them, and just ignore what they say.
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Yeah, don't listen to the vocal minority.
You should know (i guess you do) that most of the community likes you and really appreciate your work.
I would love to see that folder released throw all the dirty stuff in the fan, but do whatever is best for you.
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Rifkin I love your channel, your comedy, and what you add to the scene. Please keep doing what you do it makes Sc2 better.
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Austria24417 Posts
On November 22 2015 21:01 Zealously wrote:
Was my pizza in the folder tho
Jokes aside; you do a lot of good work, I really hope you never doubt that. Don't let anyone tell you otherwise- or maybe let them, and just ignore what they say.
That pizza we had deserves a spot in every "terrible ESPORTS things" folder
Anyway, good on you Rifkin. Tough decision to make I'm sure, but a reasonable one. Many hearts <3
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Not all organizers are "shady"
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[Prop]Naniwa fits into that blanked out space, HOLY SHIT RIFKIN.
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Glad you deleted the folder! Letting go of negativity is amazingly positive.
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On November 22 2015 19:19 Nerchio wrote:
I will not talk about anything except the screenshot which I think is not that unreasonable from the player, forcing players to wait when they are both ready is the worst thing you can do and every pro player will tell you so.
Unreasonable no, rude yes.
Despite the imaginings of pro players being able to just play the game, without broadcasting there would be no audience, and without audience there would be no reason to sponsor players nor tournaments. It's a give and take ecosystem.
In live situations there are plenty of delays as well, they are just as annoying for both audience and players. Online, even if the players are ready, the situation remains the same; games need to be broadcasted, otherwise what's the point of having esports.
That and the accusation of casters delaying games on purpose or not knowing that it affects the players mentality is ridiculous imo. Given that these things happen constantly, and still, in both live and online situation, I would reckon it would be in the players best interest to find a coping mechanism for themselves besides getting angry.
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I feel like both parties were in the right in that screenshot. The comment about, "Well, we're the big important stream, so you get to wait on us, punk." (Yes, I know you didn't say it that way, but that's almost certainly what the player heard in their agitated state.) could have been just about any other apologetic statement and I think the player would have dealt with it a little better, as it was indeed your issue from what I gather in the screenshot?
As for the overarching topic, always good to let go of things, so that's a positive step forward. (Even if your mods ban me daily, I'm letting that go! )
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On November 22 2015 19:19 Nerchio wrote:
I will not talk about anything except the screenshot which I think is not that unreasonable from the player, forcing players to wait when they are both ready is the worst thing you can do and every pro player will tell you so.
pro players from traditional sports have to deal with all kinds of interruption and delays, and other commercial obligations that they are not too excited about. But they are "professional" and they deal with it.
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hopefully someone wasn't recording every instance of you being a pleb into a folder too
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On November 23 2015 02:22 Espers wrote:
hopefully someone wasn't recording every instance of you being a pleb into a folder too
Top meme my friend kek roflmao le trollface. I am happy Espers is here to call people pleb.
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4713 Posts
Its sad to hear that people treated you so shitty. But for you to let go of all penned up anger and delete that folder of yours was a real mark of character. You decided to act out of love for what you do for the scene rather then anger and for that you have my respect. Power to you Rifkin, keep doing what you do. Oh and don't worry, we all need to vent every now and then.
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The reason I am only posting this one screenshot is because tonight I deleted this folder full of everyone's ugly history and it's all that's left.The more I obsess and think about the past, and how disgusted I was with most, the more salty I become every single day.
Good.
You probably already assumed and you'd be 100% correct in thinking that everyone who is where they are; no matter how high or low, has experienced some straight-up fucked-up shit. On a personal or professional level and every time, you wonder: "Why the fuck am I still in this?" or "I should really just let it all out and see what happens." But you don't either because you think no one will care or it will do more harm than good and while you're confident you can get work elsewhere; in this sector or not, it just really isn't worth the trouble.
Stay persistent, consistent and focus on where you're going rather than where you were.
Good job. On some level, there is a lot of karma that brings the right people up and the wrong people down but on another; it's really just about focusing what you can and want to do and not comparing yourself to others, no matter how much more successful they become (there are truly some despicable people who are succeeding in this industry).
Keep it up, you're creating your own path, but following a direction of many great others.
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On November 22 2015 19:19 Nerchio wrote:
I will not talk about anything except the screenshot which I think is not that unreasonable from the player, forcing players to wait when they are both ready is the worst thing you can do and every pro player will tell you so.
The level of entitlement "professional" Starcraft players have shown lately seems to be getting out of hand. You people seem to forget that you have what is perhaps the most sought-after job of your generation. Sadly, many foreign SC2 players don't seem to consider it to be a job at all. How in the world is it unreasonable to wait for the WCS production team to be ready for a match before it begins? It's not like the only reason the tournament even exists is because it is broadcast entertainment for profit or anything.
The fact that this thread was even created at all shines light on so many problems in the foreign SC2 scene. It has been plagued with a rampant lack of professionalism since its inception. We have multiple paid personalities and pro gamers who sit feet away from each other at the year's biggest events while badmouthing each other online and in talk shows. The few leaks and "tell-alls" that there have been make the foreign Starcraft scene appear to be completely despicable, and everyone has stories about bullshit drama.
This is why I personally prefer watching Korean Starcraft, generally speaking. Although I do enjoy foreign content at times, this why I don't really expect to see non-Koreans play on their level. Of course there is better organization which serves as the backbone of Korean Starcraft, but the other part of the equation is that sometimes they just know when to shut up and get some work done.
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If I was an organization, just saying you have had this folder; although deleted, would make me not want to hire you ever.
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Positive attitude I'm from Guadalajara, Mexico and I enjoy very much your stream and your and Zombiegrubs casts.
I have had lots of fun with the drunkcasts and the pancakes during the SH games. Keep it up and don't let the bad things get to you. The good things are worth more because of it c:
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On November 22 2015 19:19 Nerchio wrote:
I will not talk about anything except the screenshot which I think is not that unreasonable from the player, forcing players to wait when they are both ready is the worst thing you can do and every pro player will tell you so.
I guess this fucker is in 80% of the screenshots?
on a serious note: do you realise that the only reason pro players are abe to play is because of fans/streams?
Sometimes whats best for the pro is definitely not best for the scene.
edit2: You did kinda come off as an ass though in the screenshot rifkin.
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This is like the plot to Mean Girls
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On November 23 2015 17:00 NEEDZMOAR wrote:
edit2: You did kinda come off as an ass though in the screenshot rifkin.
i agree. however, if Rifkin deals with 1000s of situations a week due to his large volume of casting work and if occasionally he is overly confrontational when diplomacy works better.. i say .. just let it slide man.
Rifkin in general is good at putting up with a lot of bullshit. On the odd occasion Rifkin does play his power cards when diplomacy would work better.
rifkin was a bit of a dick dealing with the backlash on reddit about banning people from his chat. his blanket statements and ad hominem attacks were off base.
i see and know the guy's flaws and i watch BasetradeTV because its an overall solid product. but, my eyes are wide open and the guy does not always use diplomacy when its the best route to take. o well.. no one is perfect.
i hope this Zealot Hockey thing is a smash success because the game is fucking great and Blizzard is fucking awesome for sponsoring an arcade game event. and a Caster/Streamer like BaseTradeTV is perfect for just such an event.
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Rifkin, I hope you keep rocking on an being a wonderful person.
I hope you achieve all that you planned. I wish you good luck.
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I don't do what I do for the admiration. I do this because I want to
One Punch Man ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)
User was warned for this post
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On November 23 2015 17:40 JimmyJRaynor wrote:Show nested quote +On November 23 2015 17:00 NEEDZMOAR wrote:
edit2: You did kinda come off as an ass though in the screenshot rifkin. i agree. however, if Rifkin deals with 1000s of situations a week due to his large volume of casting work and if occasionally he is overly confrontational when diplomacy works better.. i say .. just let it slide man.
Im not saying it because im giving him crap for it. Im saying it because if you start off as an ass, chances are people going to be an ass to you (e.g what happend in this picture).
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I think it is a great idea to delete the folder and let it all go a liitle. Reading about having a folder with all the bad things and one person proposing a folder with only the good things, I will do exactly the latter. On my daily ladder experience I will screenshot the nice people and put that in a folder as a reminder, what I actually like about the game and the community.
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No offence, I can appreciate all the work you do, and hours you spend casting SC2, but you just seem like an INCREDIBLE hard to like guy.. just with the way you reply to criticism, and the shit storm that happen with the CarnageSC2 drama.
My point: When you act like a 11 year old douche when replying to people, they will most likely call you out / reply in a similar manner.
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Rifkin, to be honest, you won't need that stuff, and the more you think about it and let it make you angry, the closer you are to ending your own career.
Take it from a guy whose done it already.
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On November 23 2015 19:11 aslejoh wrote:
No offence, I can appreciate all the work you do, and hours you spend casting SC2, but you just seem like an INCREDIBLE hard to like guy.. just with the way you reply to criticism, and the shit storm that happen with the CarnageSC2 drama.
My point: When you act like a 11 year old douche when replying to people, they will most likely call you out / reply in a similar manner.
Rifkin, you should really take this advice to heart.
Working with pro-gamers should be treated like work with any other athlete / talent. They are not expected to have amazing people skills or manners - just to be the best at what they do.
Also, it should be easy to relate to the extreme ammount of pressure those players experience on a constant basis. If you treat them poorly (as you did in the screenshot), you should not expect them to "be the bigger man" just for you.
Not releasing your folder was a smart move, but the fact that you even documented every time you felt mistreated in order to "get back at everyone someday" is incredibly troubling. As a caster / organizer you are a service provider both for the audience and the players. Having a thick skin is a part of professionality as well, so if you want to be a pro, then act the part.
On the same note, you should NOT ignore productive critizism. To be frank, I think your early casts were horrible. You have improved greatly since then, but you still have a long way to go, so it's not your time to act smug and conceited just yet.
Bottom line: Treat players with respect, even if they act like awkward teens (most of them are). Take note of compliments and cherish them in order to keep your motivation up. Ignore haters, but always remain self-critical. If you truly WANT to imropove, your critics will be your greatest aid.
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On November 22 2015 19:19 Nerchio wrote:
I will not talk about anything except the screenshot which I think is not that unreasonable from the player, forcing players to wait when they are both ready is the worst thing you can do and every pro player will tell you so.
Yea, and without organizers and casters you wouldn't have anything to play and bitch about in the first place, so how about "pro players" actually start acting like "pro's" and just deal.
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Well done. I don't understand the statement of Nerchio above. People in general (incl. anxious, selfish "pro" gamers) need to be able to wait when they are supposed to!
And towards people yelling Rifkin acted childish in the screenshot: He did not. 1) He took his time to explain something that is not in his power. Yeah, he even could've gone silent himself. 2) He set things straight and told the guy in a diplomatic way to be patient because they all depend on exposure. No exposure, no money.
But then, people are different. Some of them stupid. Great act to delete the folder... Would you mind letting the drive slip to Slasher, or someone???
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I bet real money that Nerchio made that quoted yet censored post
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On November 23 2015 20:43 Yeld wrote:Show nested quote +On November 23 2015 19:11 aslejoh wrote:
No offence, I can appreciate all the work you do, and hours you spend casting SC2, but you just seem like an INCREDIBLE hard to like guy.. just with the way you reply to criticism, and the shit storm that happen with the CarnageSC2 drama.
My point: When you act like a 11 year old douche when replying to people, they will most likely call you out / reply in a similar manner. Rifkin, you should really take this advice to heart. Working with pro-gamers should be treated like work with any other athlete / talent. They are not expected to have amazing people skills or manners - just to be the best at what they do. Also, it should be easy to relate to the extreme ammount of pressure those players experience on a constant basis. If you treat them poorly (as you did in the screenshot), you should not expect them to "be the bigger man" just for you. Not releasing your folder was a smart move, but the fact that you even documented every time you felt mistreated in order to "get back at everyone someday" is incredibly troubling. As a caster / organizer you are a service provider both for the audience and the players. Having a thick skin is a part of professionality as well, so if you want to be a pro, then act the part. On the same note, you should NOT ignore productive critizism. To be frank, I think your early casts were horrible. You have improved greatly since then, but you still have a long way to go, so it's not your time to act smug and conceited just yet. Bottom line: Treat players with respect, even if they act like awkward teens (most of them are). Take note of compliments and cherish them in order to keep your motivation up. Ignore haters, but always remain self-critical. If you truly WANT to imropove, your critics will be your greatest aid.
I'd agree with this. I actually quite enjoy the casts you provide as well as Zombiegrub and your passion for the game is a treat to watch, but constructive criticism does seem to be pushed to the wayside in that I notice a certain "us" vs "them" attitude in the chat oftentimes, with avid followers defending every word and loving everything and anyone that has any criticism is waived off or even timed out, and there's a pressure to be positive/agree with everything said which I feel is a waste. Sure, ban the people who are just trolling to be an ass, but having nothing but happy rainbows in the chat doesn't particularly make it a good chat. It makes it very hard to check if people actually like things or not when you need quick feedback.
All that said, I do think you're a great caster and your heart and passion for the game is clearly in the right place. I'm also not saying that it's easy to deal with all the shit thrown at you; I'm sure it's a lot, but keeping an open ear to dissenting voices and making sure mods don't jump on everyone who criticizes (presuming there's a purpose to it) would be, in my eyes, a clear improvement.
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4713 Posts
Being able to discern the constructive from the toxic in criticism also takes time and patience, but I do agree it is important.
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I still don't understand how can someone make it that far in SC2 world with just 4 posts on TL. Isn't this place supposed to be the tummy of the e-world (if that is even an idiom in English)?!
In some seriousness, Rifkin, I think your personality does not come off as the easiest one all the times in your public appearances. But why should that even matter? We are not one big HR defartment to run around selecting only the ones with the best people skills for each and every job so that they can endlessly pat each other on their backs for how great of communicators they are while getting absolutely nothing of substance done. So yeah, you have contributed to the whole scene endlessly by giving it heart and soul - I would dare to say that there is no single thing as important for the "foreign scene" as BTTV - but so did the players and the others involved ... none, or only very few of them, were cast into their roles based on how easy they are to get along with, so it's given that there will be misunderstandings, fights and animosities. But if you are really getting over all this, then you are on a really good track to make what you do even better.
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On November 22 2015 15:32 Rifkin wrote:
All of this stuff, for years, I've just been building up in this one tiny folder that I was planning to just publicize the day I left starcraft, my way of calling down the thunder with a nuclear launch and getting a final laugh. I didn't really consider dedicating so much of my life to SC2 at any point, and over time just didn't think about it much, but now that I have I realize I can't afford to release any of this stuff. It'd hurt my friends, cause drama, and definitely blacklist me from any future involvement due to whistleblower status. Frustrating is the realm of politics.
How can you call people who shittalked you friends?
Also what is bad about posting things about:
Organizations being shady as fuck? This was documented.
I feel like I am the only one who thinks a lot of maybe important information was lost today.
Sure, most was probably unnecessary since people are assholes unfortunately and you have to live with it but information such as this should be worth gold for esports.
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On November 24 2015 02:52 sharkie wrote:Show nested quote +On November 22 2015 15:32 Rifkin wrote:
All of this stuff, for years, I've just been building up in this one tiny folder that I was planning to just publicize the day I left starcraft, my way of calling down the thunder with a nuclear launch and getting a final laugh. I didn't really consider dedicating so much of my life to SC2 at any point, and over time just didn't think about it much, but now that I have I realize I can't afford to release any of this stuff. It'd hurt my friends, cause drama, and definitely blacklist me from any future involvement due to whistleblower status. Frustrating is the realm of politics.
How can you call people who shittalked you friends? Also what is bad about posting things about: I feel like I am the only one who thinks a lot of maybe important information was lost today. Sure, most was probably unnecessary since people are assholes unfortunately and you have to live with it but information such as this should be worth gold for esports.
"shady" is ambiguous word that can mean a lot or nothing. A lot of small "Shady" things go by that no one lets out
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On November 24 2015 04:24 Torte de Lini wrote:Show nested quote +On November 24 2015 02:52 sharkie wrote:On November 22 2015 15:32 Rifkin wrote:
All of this stuff, for years, I've just been building up in this one tiny folder that I was planning to just publicize the day I left starcraft, my way of calling down the thunder with a nuclear launch and getting a final laugh. I didn't really consider dedicating so much of my life to SC2 at any point, and over time just didn't think about it much, but now that I have I realize I can't afford to release any of this stuff. It'd hurt my friends, cause drama, and definitely blacklist me from any future involvement due to whistleblower status. Frustrating is the realm of politics.
How can you call people who shittalked you friends? Also what is bad about posting things about: Organizations being shady as fuck? This was documented. I feel like I am the only one who thinks a lot of maybe important information was lost today. Sure, most was probably unnecessary since people are assholes unfortunately and you have to live with it but information such as this should be worth gold for esports. "shady" is ambiguous word that can mean a lot or nothing. A lot of small "Shady" things go by that no one lets out
which is not good?
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RIfkin's words in that screenshot aren't really unreasonable. Granted more context would say for sure, but what he says there doesn't seem to be out of line. When you have an e-sport, you have streams. And when you have a big e-sports stream, you have a similarly big production behind it. If you're going to broadcast a stream properly and professionally, you need to make sure everybody's ready. This censored response from a certain player doesn't show awareness of this fact. You can be ready to go right this second, but you can't start until the stream is ready to go.
If your mentality as a pro player falters because you had to wait a few minutes, then I don't know what to say, other than it's on you. You need to be able to keep your composure, and most importantly not lash out when everything doesn't go the way you want it. There's an entitlement factor in play here, that needs to be toned down. You can bet your ass, my ass, and my dead grandfather's old decaying ass that the Korean SC2 scene doesn't get swayed by shit like this. They have a stronger mentality in general, and are much more professional.
Also, huge props for being able to let go of a folder like that. Its mere existence is like a weight on your conscience, being able to step up and drop it off a cliff is good for the soul. Stay on that path.
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I would kill a man to see what's in that folder.
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On November 23 2015 17:20 HickoryLIVE wrote:
This is like the plot to Mean Girls
Yes. If anything has been comprimised by this post, it's been my view of Graham as a mostly competent grown adult. Your actions of keeping dirt on everyone in a folder are extremely childish... also if you have evidence of shady organisations there is absolutely no reason to withhold it. Everything else, on the other hand, likely will just make you look a lot worse than the players - who we already sometimes expect to act the way they do.
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On November 24 2015 05:42 ninazerg wrote:
I would kill a man to see what's in that folder.
its prolly about as interesting as one of the 500 Protoss campaign soliloquys we got in LotV.
but , if u want to kill a man you might as well make it the pirate Alan Schezar because he never reappeared in the final chapter , much to my chagrin.
i guess if one of the MODs is a big Alan Schezar fan i'm prolly in big trouble now for spoiling what happens ( or doesn't happen ) to Schezar in LotV.
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It's interesting how many, fortunately not all, responding in this thread are blaming Rifkin for other people's shittyness.
I know every other organisers, casters, players, and staff have experienced similar occasions of a lot of varying degrees of shit they'd have to take from each other.
It makes me wonder...
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On November 24 2015 16:27 partouf wrote:
It's interesting how many, fortunately not all, responding in this thread are blaming Rifkin for other people's shittyness.
I know every other organisers, casters, players, and staff have experienced similar occasions of a lot of varying degrees of shit they'd have to take from each other.
It makes me wonder...
Yeah no need to bring out the "poor me" pants. Noone is blaming rifkin as much as saying that while people can be shitty, his own attitude (for example the one in the screenshot or the whole story about the tournamentguy) doesnt seem to exactly help.
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On November 24 2015 01:04 opisska wrote:
I still don't understand how can someone make it that far in SC2 world with just 4 posts on TL. Isn't this place supposed to be the tummy of the e-world (if that is even an idiom in English)?!
Probably mostly posted under basetradeTV.
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good on you, man.
I think your screenshots are a better indicator of how you dealt with the player, rather than proof of the unnerving crap you have to deal with. being confrontational is one of the tiptop ways of bringing the worse out of people, including yourself.
I just hope you realize that many non-western society operate on a basis of mutual respect, and that's one of the main ways that any business operates.
thank you for you for working hard for us and for yourself
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On November 22 2015 19:19 Nerchio wrote:
I will not talk about anything except the screenshot which I think is not that unreasonable from the player, forcing players to wait when they are both ready is the worst thing you can do and every pro player will tell you so.
Having Nerchio being the voice of reason should be a wake up call for everyone else posting here.
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On November 25 2015 22:44 DonDomingo wrote:Show nested quote +On November 22 2015 19:19 Nerchio wrote:
I will not talk about anything except the screenshot which I think is not that unreasonable from the player, forcing players to wait when they are both ready is the worst thing you can do and every pro player will tell you so. Having Nerchio being the voice of reason should be a wake up call for everyone else posting here.
it isnt the voice of reason though. Players come second to viewers and the game getting popular, thats how it is. Without fans/viewers teams wont exist.
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On November 25 2015 23:37 NEEDZMOAR wrote:Show nested quote +On November 25 2015 22:44 DonDomingo wrote:On November 22 2015 19:19 Nerchio wrote:
I will not talk about anything except the screenshot which I think is not that unreasonable from the player, forcing players to wait when they are both ready is the worst thing you can do and every pro player will tell you so. Having Nerchio being the voice of reason should be a wake up call for everyone else posting here. it isnt the voice of reason though. Players come second to viewers and the game getting popular, thats how it is. Without fans/viewers teams wont exist.
What prevents casters from casting from replay?
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On November 25 2015 23:49 DonDomingo wrote:Show nested quote +On November 25 2015 23:37 NEEDZMOAR wrote:On November 25 2015 22:44 DonDomingo wrote:On November 22 2015 19:19 Nerchio wrote:
I will not talk about anything except the screenshot which I think is not that unreasonable from the player, forcing players to wait when they are both ready is the worst thing you can do and every pro player will tell you so. Having Nerchio being the voice of reason should be a wake up call for everyone else posting here. it isnt the voice of reason though. Players come second to viewers and the game getting popular, thats how it is. Without fans/viewers teams wont exist. What prevents casters from casting from replay?
Viewer demand.
One thing should be made clear: if you play any game for your own enjoyment, you do it for yourself and nobody has any right to tell you that you should ... anything. But when you play for money, you play for the viewer, that's where all the money comes from in the end. Pros really need to stop being such princesses, in particular when there are hordes of others waiting to take their place in the spotlight. Surely, they should be treated with respect and dignity as anyone else, but they should just not expect that the whole world will be revolving around their needs - well, at least as long as they want to get any money from it.
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On November 25 2015 23:52 opisska wrote:Show nested quote +On November 25 2015 23:49 DonDomingo wrote:On November 25 2015 23:37 NEEDZMOAR wrote:On November 25 2015 22:44 DonDomingo wrote:On November 22 2015 19:19 Nerchio wrote:
I will not talk about anything except the screenshot which I think is not that unreasonable from the player, forcing players to wait when they are both ready is the worst thing you can do and every pro player will tell you so. Having Nerchio being the voice of reason should be a wake up call for everyone else posting here. it isnt the voice of reason though. Players come second to viewers and the game getting popular, thats how it is. Without fans/viewers teams wont exist. What prevents casters from casting from replay? Viewer demand.
Viewer demand - however perceived or expressed - does not prevent casting from replay. It may discourage casting from replay, though, which is probably what you were trying to say.
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Russian Federation421 Posts
On November 26 2015 00:00 DonDomingo wrote:Show nested quote +On November 25 2015 23:52 opisska wrote:On November 25 2015 23:49 DonDomingo wrote:On November 25 2015 23:37 NEEDZMOAR wrote:On November 25 2015 22:44 DonDomingo wrote:On November 22 2015 19:19 Nerchio wrote:
I will not talk about anything except the screenshot which I think is not that unreasonable from the player, forcing players to wait when they are both ready is the worst thing you can do and every pro player will tell you so. Having Nerchio being the voice of reason should be a wake up call for everyone else posting here. it isnt the voice of reason though. Players come second to viewers and the game getting popular, thats how it is. Without fans/viewers teams wont exist. What prevents casters from casting from replay? Viewer demand. Viewer demand - however perceived or expressed - does not prevent casting from replay. It may discourage casting from replay, though, which is probably what you were trying to say.
So main WCS stream should possibly broadcast "the games will resume soon" screen for ~30 minutes until the players finish their game so it can be casted from replay but the "professional" players can't wait because it hurts their feelings?
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these conflicts between pro players and grassroots streamers are epidemic throughout SC2 and its been the case since the first CraftCup tournament in April of 2010. let's not pretend that its only a BTTV thing.
the problem is solvable. it requires a giant fucking pile of cash. otherwise when Pro players are playing for small amounts of cash and streamers are mainly staffed by volunteers these kinds of conflicts will always happen.
the only permanent solution to this is to buy your way out of the issue with a pile of cash. problem is there is no big sugar daddy and there never will be.
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On November 26 2015 04:27 Ingvar wrote:Show nested quote +On November 26 2015 00:00 DonDomingo wrote:On November 25 2015 23:52 opisska wrote:On November 25 2015 23:49 DonDomingo wrote:On November 25 2015 23:37 NEEDZMOAR wrote:On November 25 2015 22:44 DonDomingo wrote:On November 22 2015 19:19 Nerchio wrote:
I will not talk about anything except the screenshot which I think is not that unreasonable from the player, forcing players to wait when they are both ready is the worst thing you can do and every pro player will tell you so. Having Nerchio being the voice of reason should be a wake up call for everyone else posting here. it isnt the voice of reason though. Players come second to viewers and the game getting popular, thats how it is. Without fans/viewers teams wont exist. What prevents casters from casting from replay? Viewer demand. Viewer demand - however perceived or expressed - does not prevent casting from replay. It may discourage casting from replay, though, which is probably what you were trying to say. So main WCS stream should possibly broadcast "the games will resume soon" screen for ~30 minutes until the players finish their game so it can be casted from replay but the "professional" players can't wait because it hurts their feelings?
?
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The decision to make the folder: childish. The decision to delete it: smart.
The life we live in:full of people who do not act according to our wishes.
Do not wrestle with a pig in the mud.It will have all the fun and you will get dirty.
Your passion has made SC2 scene a better place. Your love for the game is what impressed me.
You have achieved a lot in this scene.You would have blown it if you would have released the folder.
Even if you are right every time it would have been for the wrong reasons.
I come to TL because here I found people that share my passion.
Rise above the bad things because you are better than that. You can't go wrong when you do something you love !
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Read the thread, so many people don't read the thread before typing in it 
Much agreed, it is quite weird to type and publish your thoughts.
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Whoa, shoot, sometimes I'm painfully reminded that e-sports industry is not heaven on Earth and this is just another example.
Keep up the good work, Rifkin&Zombiegrub and don't get discouraged!
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On November 22 2015 19:19 Nerchio wrote:
I will not talk about anything except the screenshot which I think is not that unreasonable from the player, forcing players to wait when they are both ready is the worst thing you can do and every pro player will tell you so.
Do you not need fans to watch your games ?
@Rifkin.
Maybe those "proofs" could have help in dark times. Maybe not. Great work as always. I grew found of you over time. Even if you have dicks in your pizzas
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On November 22 2015 19:19 Nerchio wrote:
I will not talk about anything except the screenshot which I think is not that unreasonable from the player, forcing players to wait when they are both ready is the worst thing you can do and every pro player will tell you so.
Yes but in esports you need both players AND casters to be ready. Without tournament organizers and casters, you wouldn't be making any money and your career in progaming would be over. Likewise, without any pro players to play in the tournaments, the organizers and casters would be out of a job. It's a 2-way street.
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On November 24 2015 07:48 Avocadi wrote:Show nested quote +On November 23 2015 17:20 HickoryLIVE wrote:
This is like the plot to Mean Girls Yes. If anything has been comprimised by this post, it's been my view of Graham as a mostly competent grown adult. Your actions of keeping dirt on everyone in a folder are extremely childish... also if you have evidence of shady organisations there is absolutely no reason to withhold it. Everything else, on the other hand, likely will just make you look a lot worse than the players - who we already sometimes expect to act the way they do.
Sorry to break the bad news to you, but keeping dirt on people is the opposite of childish. Welcome to the real world. If someone fucks you over big time and you have nothing to prove it with, well prepare to just bend over and take it up the ass. This is why you should keep skype chat logs, etc. Otherwise it's just your word against someone else's.
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Saying 'we are the mainstream, so you wait' seems a little patronising. Could have just said 'sorry were fixing it asap'. Player is under a lot of stress so he'll react frustrated. Not saying they should react like, its rude, but this but to me this screenshot is really not that weird.
I really wonder how 'teams extorting sponsors for additional money' works though lol. 'Kingston you better bring some cash in unmarked bills to TL headquarters before o-eighthundred hours tonight or we sign with Corsair!'. Would be some quality drama.
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It's really disappointing that LotV didn't introduce a way for casters to jump into the games mid-game, would have been really useful for situations like the OP and also qualifiers and LAN group stages when a lot of games are going on at once, would dramatically reduce downtime on streams.
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On December 02 2015 03:52 SC2Towelie wrote:Show nested quote +On November 24 2015 07:48 Avocadi wrote:On November 23 2015 17:20 HickoryLIVE wrote:
This is like the plot to Mean Girls Yes. If anything has been comprimised by this post, it's been my view of Graham as a mostly competent grown adult. Your actions of keeping dirt on everyone in a folder are extremely childish... also if you have evidence of shady organisations there is absolutely no reason to withhold it. Everything else, on the other hand, likely will just make you look a lot worse than the players - who we already sometimes expect to act the way they do. Sorry to break the bad news to you, but keeping dirt on people is the opposite of childish. Welcome to the real world. If someone fucks you over big time and you have nothing to prove it with, well prepare to just bend over and take it up the ass. This is why you should keep skype chat logs, etc. Otherwise it's just your word against someone else's.
I disagree. if it concerns people w/ people interactions that could go on record, they do things as close to professional channels as humanly possible legitimacy shoots up in folds.. you pay rent? keep emails, receipts, mail, but word of mouth is as simple as it sounds, there are laws for that.
people also realize that it's just as easy to fabricate images and chatlogs as it is to unintentionally misunderstand someone (also possible on purpose). keeping actual dirt is more reminiscent of actual private detectives and the like who you hire to dig shit up and take photos you don't want to be caught taking. these are more like personal quarrels through the avenue of being part of a smaller team of casters/players and small brand recognition.
we're talking about logging into battlenet and chatting it up with players over the ingame chat. that is not dirt, that is call of duty, PSN, Skype (I don't agree with Skype being a major form of organization/pro communication because of hacking, security holes, etc), convenience, non-professional channels--though they can be treated the opposite.
the only people that the 'dirt' affects is whoever released it (if named + organization) and the community members who aren't aware of the BM that's thrown around in games regardless of who you are or who you're representing.
if you can consider this this way: the only ways a player can screw over a caster is wasting his time, monetarily (this is more complicated than how it is written, though super rare), disrespecting and slander (legal action), hurting his feelings and thus his motivation and his emotions? (no legal action, just reddit bullshit, lol)
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so you wait :-)
That's the most patronising and hypocritical thing you could possibly mention, Rifkin... you made an action and you got an equal reaction, you really don't believe talking like that to people is a good and professional manner? I'm sorry for saying this kind of aggresively, but honestly you can talk like this to your close friends, not a competitor in a tournament you possibly have no bond with. Even the most bad mannered one you could think of. Even when I read this message I get annoying vibe from it.
In this case, you got what you asked for :-)
In before anyone putting words in my mouth, I talk only about the screenshot Rifkin posted.
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I can see both sides on this but seriously the unknown(Swedish, due to speaking Swedish) player starts the aggression on this one arguing that "we are players and we are on schedule" like the stream and the organization doesn't matter and that they cannot delay due to technical difficulties. Its bullshit, it doesn't matter if you are on a schedule or if you have other things planed, appointments can get postponed or cancelled, it happens every day in the real world. Dentis/doctor/lecture/work-meeting. I'm sorry but things do not revolve around you, doesn't matter if you are a patient, a student, a worker or a professional sc2 progamer. You do what you are waiting to do when it is possible to do so.
Rifkin does not handle it well, and is snarky back which is very unprofessional but he is not wrong and he does not start it.
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EPT
