He's not using it as an excuse. He's merely pointing out that he's bloody miserable and it's playing havoc with his emotional control.

Anyway, TB's original points are well made. BO5 Proleague format is probably the best choice overall (voted BO7, but as was pointed out that's not exactly realistic). All Kill is fun to see for a round in Proleague every now and then to let the stars (and occasional surprise) show off, but it doesn't seem like a healthy foundation for a team competition.

I suppose it's up to Acer in the end, anyway.

TotalBiscuit

United Kingdom5437 Posts

July 10 2014 01:48 GMT

#62

On July 10 2014 09:34 Capped wrote:

Show nested quote +

Trust you to use that as a reason to be a complete prick and belittle people suffering from the disease, including yourself.

IDK, i keep looking at this comment and thinking its harsh but you really shouldn't use something like cancer as an excuse like that.

Asked if I'm on a short fuse lately.

Explains why

Accused of being a complete prick and belittling cancer patients, all while being belittled as a cancer patient.

You are something special, I'll tell ya that much.

Adds fuel to my opinion that a segment of the community claims they want transparency but only when that transparency is agreeable to them. You can't have it both ways, either you want someone who is honest all the time or you want someone willing to lie to you. Choose.

Anyone that thinks I am attacking TaKe here is out of their mind. TaKe as you can see clearly responded to the feedback and the discussion. This is valuable information for anyone tournament organizer, this is the kind of info and discussion they need. I want TaKes tournament to be successful, I feel it would be more so with a different format, simple as that.

Holytornados

United States1022 Posts

July 10 2014 02:11 GMT

#63

Appreciate the transparency here, as always. Interesting write up and agree with your opinions of the league format.

I used to be a fan of All-kill exclusively, but as of late, it seems that teams are following the "star + support squad" mentality that really is not conducive to high-quality matches. Would like to see a Bo5 PL format with ace for a potential season 4.

That being said, the games today were pretty entertaining, if you consider the fact that Sjaak is an up-and-coming new talent who just asserted himself into the limelight and proved he was worth the acquisition from Mouz. I think he has potential to break into WCS for sure when he comes of age.

That being said, I feel bad for the Axiom boys. I guess that the internet connection probably had some play into the games? Regardless, good games from Sjaak and Ryung today.

EJK

United States1302 Posts

July 10 2014 02:23 GMT

#64

maybe you shoulda picked up sjaack when you had the chance, he seems like a hard working player and im sure he put a lot of preperation into preparing his "white ra special tactics" builds. I wouldn't consider him a no name anymore after these events. Give him some foreigner hope credit!

Crot4le

England2927 Posts

July 10 2014 02:39 GMT

#65

On July 10 2014 09:31 TaKeSeN wrote:But i am actually also a fan of trying to make it "more a teamleague"

Does this mean we can have the proleague format?!!!

metzninja

New Zealand626 Posts

July 10 2014 05:49 GMT

#66

I think two rounds can be okay for playoffs, but I'd prefer to just use the Waseda format throughout (4-5 Proleague-style 1v1s followed by survivors playing until one team's winners have all been eliminated). In BW, Kespa's Dreamleague (effectively B-team/rookie Proleague) used Waseda to great effect. If Waseda isn't an option, then I think Bo7 Proleague is the best.

Chizeron

Sweden15 Posts

July 10 2014 06:22 GMT

#67

First of all, death to trackpads i accidentally voted for the current format. (Now it's hurting my conscience.)

I tend to support the proleague format for team leagues though. The less one person can carry, the more entertaining the tournament becomes as a team effort.

And seriously even if Tb fired off a bit of banter ahead of the game, he totally stuffed his face in humble pie in his post. More than enough to absolve him in my honest opinion

Can you really complain when someone who cares so much and is both passionate and honest, all while still having the personal insight, humility and grace to apologize in case he slighted someone. And doing so both eloquently and with phrasing and punctuation up to the snuffest of snuff. My top hat of to Tb in this case.

And to mystery while speaking of salt. Salt is good, i'ts a necessity even, but when you overdo it with potshots one will more likely get the feel that Tb at one point stole your candy than you having a reasonable complaint against any one statement or opinion. A slight bit of subtlety (read: only a pinch of salt) would help your cause. (This is me not being subtle providing an anti-reference

)

Lastly i look forward to Axioms next showing to see them claw themselves back into team-league limelight!

TinkeR_

France7 Posts

July 10 2014 07:02 GMT

#68

What about the good ol' WC3L format like on Warcraft III back in time ?

A BO5 of BO3s, 4x1v1 + 1x2v2 (or 5x1v1 whatever) like:

Acer vs Millenium

INnoVation vs ForGG (BO3)
Scarlett vs Dayshi (BO3)
Nerchio vs VortiX (BO3)
MMA vs MarineLorD (BO3)
MMA & Scarlett vs Dayshi & VortiX (BO3)

This way, managers would be able to prepare tactics, which players to pick, etc. It would not rely on some randomness, luck (BO3), etc. I'd love to see this again.

ZenithM

France15952 Posts

July 10 2014 07:10 GMT

#69

On July 10 2014 11:39 Crot4le wrote:

Show nested quote +

Does this mean we can have the proleague format?!!!

Perhaps full-on 4v4.

Enstein

Russian Federation134 Posts

July 10 2014 07:16 GMT

#70

Good post.
Personally my favourite format for team leagues was the one used by ESL Euro series: "Teams face each other in five 1v1 best-of-three match-ups" (with the possibility for the ace player to play twice".
I feel that this format is less volatile than Proleague, favours teams with reasonably deep rosters and gives an edge (but not a huge one) to the teams with star players. The cons? With a potential maximum of 15 games (minimum 6) it could take longer to play and broadcast. The solution would be to have just four best-of-three matches (maximum 12 games, minimum 6) during the regular season with the possiblity of having a draw and sharing points between teams.
The only thing the ESL Euro series lacked was a good coverage, but it was exciting to watch.
What do you think?

Acer.ParanOid

Poland133 Posts

July 10 2014 07:50 GMT

#71

On July 10 2014 07:51 qxc wrote:
I always felt like atc had the revival rule because acer had a relatively shallow lineup for a long time (with 1-2 extremely strong players) and so revives (especially the 3 revive season) helped them perform better.

The rules make a lot of sense when I consider them in this way, regardless of if I agree or not.

Team Acer had nothing to do with the rules.

Nerchio

Poland2633 Posts

July 10 2014 08:39 GMT

#72

lol

boxerfred

Germany8360 Posts

July 10 2014 08:50 GMT

#73

On July 10 2014 07:03 TotalBiscuit wrote:

Show nested quote +

In my experience this is not true online. Kappa was probably the best thing the internet ever came up with, finally a universally accepted way of saying "the preceding sentence is not serious".

Then Teamliquid banned it, like the fascists they are...

I'd prefer to take that sentence as irony, but since I'm not sure about that regarding its first part, I'm glad to help:
Here's an example where humor was expressed without using a twitch meme:

";-)" ":-D" "lol, kidding"

Also, IMO "kappa" and other twitch chat stuff is just plain stupid, but I think we can agree to disagree here?

Edit: regarding your format thoughts, I agree though. Especially the revive rule takes away a lot of tension. Regarding Take's thoughts on budget and stuff: the ATC is pretty much the one teamleague besides proleague left. If that does not continue, it'll be hard for another teamleague to establish itself as a constant thing in the scene. On the other hand, maybe teamleagues in general are not supposed to be a big thing since SC2 has always been a 1on1 heavy thing, resulting in a "player > team" mentality? "Flash carrying KT Rolster" might be a good example, it was so hard for Zest to establish himself. Also, TY.

eightym

United States76 Posts

July 10 2014 08:50 GMT

#74

It's okay, TB. Sometimes I get caught off guard by how powerful Protoss can be, too. You can cry on my shoulder.

JustPassingBy

10776 Posts

July 10 2014 09:43 GMT

#75

On July 10 2014 11:39 Crot4le wrote:

Show nested quote +

Does this mean we can have the proleague format?!!!

It means that he is fighting hard to get a budget for another ATC.

ninazerg

United States7291 Posts

July 10 2014 11:41 GMT

#76

"We lost, therefore, all-kill format sux"; whatever dude, don't write an essay to try and get people to bandwagon onto the "NO ALL-KILL" train so your team can win.

+ Show Spoiler +

Just kidding :D

[image loading]

Losing sucks, so the best of luck to you in the future.

SatedSC2

England3012 Posts

July 10 2014 11:45 GMT

#77

--- Nuked ---

astrionic

Switzerland7 Posts

July 10 2014 12:01 GMT

#78

While the Proleague format might not be as exciting as the all-kill format I think it could still be beneficial for the viewer. With the current format we basically only see Innovation every time when Acer plays. With Proleague format we would see a much big part of the roster. That would, at least in my opinion, be much more interesting than just Innovation and Taeja every single game (even though I love watching them play) and we'd also get to see more of the foreigners like Scarlett, Nerchio, Snute, Bunny, Mana. I'd definitely prefer that over the current format.

Kasaraki

Denmark7115 Posts

July 10 2014 12:03 GMT

#79

I think you find it hard to make your sarcasm understood because you're always picking fights such as these, heh. ^^ It actually is genuinely hard to know if you're being ironic, because you make harsh or blunt statements all the time. Back in my day we used smilies instead of twitch memes though, might be worth a shot!

As for format, I've grown to like Proleague format more in recent times. All-kill feels dated and streaky, and doesn't showcase a team as much as Proleague format does. You get to know all the teamplayers over time, and the non-ace players get a chance to improve a lot.

Heartland

Sweden24593 Posts

July 10 2014 13:00 GMT

#80

Not sure if you want to elaborate on it at all, but how do you view the difference between individual and team league preparation and practice? I understand the general premise of why it's different, but it is hard to understand the specifics.