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On June 11 2014 23:56 TotalBiscuit wrote:Show nested quote +On June 11 2014 21:58 myxoma_strain wrote:On June 11 2014 20:42 TotalBiscuit wrote:On June 11 2014 20:34 Incognoto wrote:
I think most casters are high-masters anyway.
It's just that they don't talk about the notions that high-masters think about during the game because the audience isn't high-master. I have a theory that the vast majority of people who complain about "lack of analysis" are mid-diamond, they think they're good so demand analysis and in comparison to the majority of SC2 players they are kinda good, but at the same time they're also terrible at the game in the grand scheme of things. The one that gets me is when pro players complain that casters aren't analytical enough. Isn't it their job to know this stuff? Why do they need the casters telling them it? Most pros I've spoken to only get annoyed when the casters make calls that make them as players look bad. Most pros also prefer play-by-play because they want their play to be hyped and appreciated, not picked apart by someone who isn't as good as they are. Casters control a lot of the perception of players, in my view their job is to support the players as best as they can and translate their actions into something that can be understood by a wider audience. The backlash against "hype" that has been happening recently is ridiculous and pro-gamers should be making it clear why play-by-play casting is both necessary and appreciated.
I agree I think play by play casting is the best kind of commentary (I am a GM Terran level btw, not mid diamond). If I can have the stream open and listen ONLY to the commentators but know exactly what is going on because of their descriptions of the game and play by play of the engagements (who the decisive winner ends up being and who loses what in big army engagements), I am content.
One example of where this does not occur is the proleague done in english. Wolf MOonglade and Brendan sound more like casual observers in the game rather then actually commentating what is going on, and I can never understand anything they are saying, there's no point to it so I always just mute the audio whenever I watch proleague
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I admit that I was an "analysis before all" kinda guy back in the day, but when you basically know much of what there is to know about the game (at least to understand what the player is doing), it isn't really what you look for anymore. However, I like having someone with a great voice hyping up the game, the engagements and providing good flow and rhythm when the game is a bit slow.
Preferably talking in his mother tongue.
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Remember when Idra and Khaldor totally murdered ASUS ROG?
Why was that cast so good?
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I personally get sick of the high master snobs who somehow think they could cast better, simply because they are high masters. I don't understand the correlation. Obviously a caster needs to understand upgrade advantages, timings, and other things, but the mechanical difference in actual gameplay doesn't necessarily mean that people below your rank are complete buffoons.
I really enjoyed listening to this. The Shoutcraft games 'imo' were 10x that of HSC games, in part, due to the lag issues, but mainly because those Shoutcraft games were the highest level I have personally seen. I live near the East Coast in the US so I rarely, if ever, get to watch GSL.
I hope you are able to do more of these, TB, those games were superb.
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On June 11 2014 20:32 TotalBiscuit wrote:Show nested quote +On June 11 2014 19:07 puppykiller wrote:
Can't we keep it simple and say people who don't play the game shouldn't commentate the game? There is no covering up noobiness and it is always really obvious. There is such an abundance of players at high masters levels I can't accept the idea that speculatively they are all too socially awkward to perform casts and cannot replace current ones. All this casting technique in "how to cast vaguely enough so as not to seem like you were wrong" is just embarrassing... it shouldn't even be part of the conversation.
People who find themselves within the job that aren't at an even semi-respectable level should take it upon themselves to learn the game as much as they can through playing it at as high a level as they can manage. Anything else is a shirking of responsibilities and unfair to the fans. Oh it's this old thing again. Some of the most popular sports commentators in the world who are paid millions of dollars a year to do the job have never played the game and the vast majority of play-by-play certainly do not play it now. Shockingly enough, the ability to talk and present is actually a marketable skill and something people train for, which is why almost all play-by-play commentators in real sports were broadcast personalities prior to taking up their career as a play-by-play commentator. Knowing the game inside and out is the job of the colour and analyst expert commentators alongside a whole host of statisticians backing them up on the production team. Being "high masters" does not make you an expert in anything.
Well personally I play BW these days and only played SC2 for a year but when I first was getting into SC five or so years ago I really did like casts. Barely into actually learning how to play the game though, it started becoming abundantly apparent how bullshitted most of the analysis the casters did was and it made the whole process seem extremely ingenious. I won't deny that shout crafting appeals to a larger audience of casuals and I don't think there is anything wrong with that but out of pure respect for the game and the players one should at least know a little about how to actually play it (high masters is an arbitrary level I proposed).
I think play by play casting is too often used as a way to shroud ones lack of understanding of the action rather than anything else and an exclusive focus on it prevents a caster from picking up on many of the actually unique aspects of any particular game. This ultimately unfortunately leads to making all games sort of blend together when shoutcasted by someone purely play by play with bullshitted analysis (hype, hype, hype, hype, forcefields, hype). In truth a caster would do so much better if they were to have an analytic basic understanding of the game to work off of. I don't know if this idea is threatening to you because it wasn't your path into casting but there is clearly a demand for it in this particular sport and a short self justifying blurb of what casting should be does not change that fact.
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I personally am a bit bored of the standard play by play casting style and so hsc was very refreshing for me.
I liked how destiny would try to understand why a pro does X in this situation.
Even when he critize JD plays against Taeja, I do agree with his analysis
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EPT
