• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EDT 01:14
CEST 07:14
KST 14:14
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
Tournament Spotlight: FEL Cracow 20259Power Rank - Esports World Cup 202578RSL Season 1 - Final Week9[ASL19] Finals Recap: Standing Tall15HomeStory Cup 27 - Info & Preview18
Community News
[BSL 2025] H2 - Team Wars, Weeklies & SB Ladder0EWC 2025 - Replay Pack1Google Play ASL (Season 20) Announced26BSL Team Wars - Bonyth, Dewalt, Hawk & Sziky teams10Weekly Cups (July 14-20): Final Check-up0
StarCraft 2
General
#1: Maru - Greatest Players of All Time Power Rank - Esports World Cup 2025 EWC 2025 - Replay Pack Tournament Spotlight: FEL Cracow 2025 I offer completely free coaching services
Tourneys
Esports World Cup 2025 FEL Cracov 2025 (July 27) - $10,000 live event $25,000 Streamerzone StarCraft Pro Series announced $5,000 WardiTV Summer Championship 2025 WardiTV Mondays
Strategy
How did i lose this ZvP, whats the proper response
Custom Maps
External Content
Mutation # 484 Magnetic Pull Mutation #239 Bad Weather Mutation # 483 Kill Bot Wars Mutation # 482 Wheel of Misfortune
Brood War
General
Google Play ASL (Season 20) Announced [BSL 2025] H2 - Team Wars, Weeklies & SB Ladder [Update] ShieldBattery: 2025 Redesign Dewalt's Show Matches in China BGH Auto Balance -> http://bghmmr.eu/
Tourneys
[Megathread] Daily Proleagues [BSL20] Non-Korean Championship 4x BSL + 4x China CSL Xiamen International Invitational [CSLPRO] It's CSLAN Season! - Last Chance
Strategy
Does 1 second matter in StarCraft? Simple Questions, Simple Answers [G] Mineral Boosting
Other Games
General Games
Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread Nintendo Switch Thread Total Annihilation Server - TAForever [MMORPG] Tree of Savior (Successor of Ragnarok) Path of Exile
Dota 2
Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Heroes of StarCraft mini-set
TL Mafia
TL Mafia Community Thread Vanilla Mini Mafia
Community
General
US Politics Mega-thread UK Politics Mega-thread Stop Killing Games - European Citizens Initiative Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine Russo-Ukrainian War Thread
Fan Clubs
INnoVation Fan Club SKT1 Classic Fan Club!
Media & Entertainment
Anime Discussion Thread [\m/] Heavy Metal Thread Movie Discussion! [Manga] One Piece Korean Music Discussion
Sports
2024 - 2025 Football Thread Formula 1 Discussion TeamLiquid Health and Fitness Initiative For 2023 NBA General Discussion
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Installation of Windows 10 suck at "just a moment" Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread
TL Community
TeamLiquid Team Shirt On Sale The Automated Ban List
Blogs
Ping To Win? Pings And Their…
TrAiDoS
momentary artworks from des…
tankgirl
from making sc maps to makin…
Husyelt
StarCraft improvement
iopq
Socialism Anyone?
GreenHorizons
Eight Anniversary as a TL…
Mizenhauer
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 577 users

How do you justify playing a MMORPG? - Page 2

Blogs > Torte de Lini
Post a Reply
Prev 1 2 3 Next All
Nimix
Profile Joined October 2011
France1809 Posts
May 05 2014 13:30 GMT
#21
I played WoW cause I had friends on it, liked the game, and played pretty competitively (PvE DPS/guild rankings and a bit of decent PvP) which was fun and involved quite a lot of research/theorycrafting. I liked being able to spend time on the game doing relaxing stuff, and also having a competitive side to it and special rewards for it. I never liked farming or achievements hunting though, but the cool thing with MMOs (at least good ones) is that you can play the game a lot of different ways.
It's kind of subjective anyway, you can play for a lot of different reasons and like some things and hate others. I really liked playing in a guild with friends and still being able to get good rankings and stuff though. It still felt really good to be the 2nd world's best warrior on a boss, or be the 4th guild to kill another in your country. The fun I got from the game plus the people I got to know thanks to it were way worth the subscription
Also, the game is an interesting sample of humanity. I'll never forget some of the people I've talked with..
Slayer91
Profile Joined February 2006
Ireland23335 Posts
May 05 2014 13:30 GMT
#22
On May 05 2014 16:34 Torte de Lini wrote:
Ultimately, it leads to the rationale that, if I am so far behind from everyone else, it is pretty futile for me to progress because I assume, stupidly, that everyone is progressing at a similar if not, faster speed that me and thus I will always be outclassed.


This is your problem.
Why bother doing anything if you don't believe you can catch up to anyone and that's all you care about?
If anything mmo gear is way easier to catch up to than skill.
MMOs are like any other game, if you find them fun play it, if you don't, don't play it. MMOs might be addicting or whatever but its mostly because theres always people to talk to.

Torte de Lini
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
Germany38463 Posts
May 05 2014 13:42 GMT
#23
On May 05 2014 22:30 Slayer91 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 05 2014 16:34 Torte de Lini wrote:
Ultimately, it leads to the rationale that, if I am so far behind from everyone else, it is pretty futile for me to progress because I assume, stupidly, that everyone is progressing at a similar if not, faster speed that me and thus I will always be outclassed.


This is your problem.
Why bother doing anything if you don't believe you can catch up to anyone and that's all you care about?
If anything mmo gear is way easier to catch up to than skill.
MMOs are like any other game, if you find them fun play it, if you don't, don't play it. MMOs might be addicting or whatever but its mostly because theres always people to talk to.



I think it's the stupid view that I am giving up before even trying, but with a game that demands a lot of commitment (if I want to catch up); it sounds a bit sane.

I'm not fearful of addiction; I just want to feel like I'm dog-paddling in a deep sea of a game.

https://twitter.com/#!/TorteDeLini (@TorteDeLini)
Slayer91
Profile Joined February 2006
Ireland23335 Posts
Last Edited: 2014-05-05 13:50:45
May 05 2014 13:49 GMT
#24
It sounds like you're doing one of those destination before journey things. There's no point playing just to reach the very endgame, if the climb there isnt fun you probably wasted most of your time.

Especially for something like EVE you have to be happy playing your own smaller role because that really is a game where if you want to catch up you have to put in tonnes of time. That game is definitely an exceptional case though.
Firebolt145
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
Lalalaland34491 Posts
May 05 2014 13:53 GMT
#25
On May 05 2014 22:49 Slayer91 wrote:
Especially for something like EVE you have to be happy playing your own smaller role because that really is a game where if you want to catch up you have to put in tonnes of time. That game is definitely an exceptional case though.

Partially disagree. If you want to become some bigshot alliance leader who plays a large role in the metagame, sure that will take quite a lot of time. But if you simply want to learn how to play the game, it doesn't really take 'tonnes of time'.
Moderator
Slayer91
Profile Joined February 2006
Ireland23335 Posts
Last Edited: 2014-05-05 14:02:56
May 05 2014 14:02 GMT
#26
thats whyI said "smaller role" and not "learn how to play the game"
Torte de Lini
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
Germany38463 Posts
Last Edited: 2014-05-05 15:04:17
May 05 2014 14:57 GMT
#27
On May 05 2014 22:49 Slayer91 wrote:
It sounds like you're doing one of those destination before journey things. There's no point playing just to reach the very endgame, if the climb there isnt fun you probably wasted most of your time.

Especially for something like EVE you have to be happy playing your own smaller role because that really is a game where if you want to catch up you have to put in tonnes of time. That game is definitely an exceptional case though.


100000000000% this. Yeah, I am. For me, I want to know how far I can get before I dive in because otherwise I can just devote my time elsewhere. It is 100% a question of time-rationale, which I think is fair, but then I lose the point of playing games.

I'm fine with smaller roles, being at the bottom. Especially with EVE where there are literal kingpins and shit and a hierarchy that is actually used and valued (unlike some MMOs where its just a social effect).

But when I tried EVE, I always ask: what can I do for the corporation I'm in and it's always; do whatever you like. Well, I want to do things that help people and be a part of the main group; even if I'm just a fly on the wall.

I play for the interaction and be with people, something I'll need to build no matter what I do.

On May 05 2014 22:53 Firebolt145 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 05 2014 22:49 Slayer91 wrote:
Especially for something like EVE you have to be happy playing your own smaller role because that really is a game where if you want to catch up you have to put in tonnes of time. That game is definitely an exceptional case though.

Partially disagree. If you want to become some bigshot alliance leader who plays a large role in the metagame, sure that will take quite a lot of time. But if you simply want to learn how to play the game, it doesn't really take 'tonnes of time'.


I want to learn, but I want the feeling that I am going somewhere at least.
https://twitter.com/#!/TorteDeLini (@TorteDeLini)
Takkara
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
United States2503 Posts
May 05 2014 15:20 GMT
#28
For me, MMO's fit into my personality type. I'm an optimizer by nature. I take great pleasure in figuring out faster and more efficient ways to do things. That's essentially what an MMO is: repetitive tasks that you are rewarded for optimizing by getting more rewards in less time than other people.

Interesting, as I wrote that out I just realized that I should be more involved in the Speed Running community. WTF. That stuff should be right up my alley, but for some reason I haven't gotten into it other than to watch streams.
Gee gee gee gee baby baby baby
Torte de Lini
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
Germany38463 Posts
May 05 2014 15:25 GMT
#29
On May 06 2014 00:20 Takkara wrote:
For me, MMO's fit into my personality type. I'm an optimizer by nature. I take great pleasure in figuring out faster and more efficient ways to do things. That's essentially what an MMO is: repetitive tasks that you are rewarded for optimizing by getting more rewards in less time than other people.

Interesting, as I wrote that out I just realized that I should be more involved in the Speed Running community. WTF. That stuff should be right up my alley, but for some reason I haven't gotten into it other than to watch streams.


that definitely sounds like speedrunning! Do Kirby All-Stars :D
https://twitter.com/#!/TorteDeLini (@TorteDeLini)
FromShouri
Profile Blog Joined April 2012
United States862 Posts
May 05 2014 15:32 GMT
#30
I use to play a lot of subscription mmos back in the day with wow being the longest i ever subbed to something(like 6 years with only missing a few months). Now i cant stand the thing if its not some hybrid freemium game. I understand the sub goes towards new content and server maintence but anymore i hate not being able to play the content ive already purchased just because i didnt give them 15$ this month. Thats why i like swtor currently. If you dont pay you can still play albeit with some restrictions. But even then you can purchase unlocks that make it less "painful" using ingame money or real life money.
Limited Edition, lets do some simple addition, $50 for a T-Shirt is just some ignorant bitch shit.
Torte de Lini
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
Germany38463 Posts
May 05 2014 15:41 GMT
#31
On May 06 2014 00:32 FromShouri wrote:
I use to play a lot of subscription mmos back in the day with wow being the longest i ever subbed to something(like 6 years with only missing a few months). Now i cant stand the thing if its not some hybrid freemium game. I understand the sub goes towards new content and server maintence but anymore i hate not being able to play the content ive already purchased just because i didnt give them 15$ this month. Thats why i like swtor currently. If you dont pay you can still play albeit with some restrictions. But even then you can purchase unlocks that make it less "painful" using ingame money or real life money.


That's why I like GW2, but to be honest; no PVP arena like in GW1 and how the end-game was just sorta cosmetics made the game kinda bland for me. But then again, I like the idea that I don't have to grind for better equipment.


I keep debating if I want to go back or not; 20 euros to server transfer. WvW sucked hard though.
https://twitter.com/#!/TorteDeLini (@TorteDeLini)
makmeatt
Profile Blog Joined June 2011
2024 Posts
May 05 2014 15:50 GMT
#32
I've learned a nice word describing the experience when I used to play ACE Online: soothing (thanks Vilatan!).
Personally I hate MMOs since they are a huge time sink without a proper end goal. Considering I'm terrible at coming up with interesting challenges, I only pick up games that have strictly defined terms of victory. That being said, I know a lot of people just enjoy their time doing stuff for vague goals in them, even if it's repetitive.

On May 05 2014 16:46 Torte de Lini wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 05 2014 16:45 Onekobold wrote:
On May 05 2014 16:34 Torte de Lini wrote:
So what justifies people to play MMOs?


fun usually


Can you elaborate on the fun part?

I've seen this question many times before, usually in the form of "How is this fun?", and assuming you are looking for an actual answer to that question, I can only tell you this: if somebody else has to explain to you why something is fun, it probably isn't to you. On the other hand, asking "What is fun about it" will lead you to certain aspects of games that you might want to explore.
"Silver Edge can't break my hope" - Kryptt 2016 || "Chrono is not a debuff, you just get rekt" - Guru 2016
Mothra
Profile Blog Joined November 2009
United States1448 Posts
May 05 2014 16:15 GMT
#33
The real cost of MMOs is not the money, it's the huge time investment to grind and keep up with everyone else. It's hard to have a satisfying experience if you just play a little here and there.
Pandemona *
Profile Blog Joined March 2011
Charlie Sheens House51484 Posts
May 05 2014 16:41 GMT
#34
I played WoW since 2005, always find myself going back to it. I guess the fun you can have with hours at a time doing PvE raids is second to none. I have made some of my best friends from WoW many of whom are not the average WoW player stereotypes. I like WoW for the team aspect and just trolling the fuck out of eachother on voice comms whilst progressing 2-3 hours in an evening. Or farming till 4am on weekends of silly things just because you can. Nothing has beaten them for me and only MMOs seem to bring that out.
I have played pretty much every MMO and i always go back to WoW. The big killer was supposed to be GW2 but i didn't even get to max level on that "/

How do you justify playing an MMO? If it entertains you for the value you think it is worth. Hell i go to the cinema when i can as i love watching stuff on the big screen, but the value in the Cinema is shocking, costs me £30 when me and someone go whether it be my dad or a friend due to the price of tickets and popcorn alone. Then i always need a piss halfway through and want to pause like i would on netflix or a DVD xD...anyway back the point. Things aren't justified in value outside of MMOs so i don't think you should try and justify an MMO subscription. If you play it 10+ hours a week and enjoy it then its justified. If you can AFFORD to do that it is also justified.

Thats the best way i can word why i do it.
ModeratorTeam Liquid Football Thread Guru! - Chelsea FC ♥
Therapist.
Profile Joined January 2009
United States207 Posts
May 05 2014 16:54 GMT
#35
I feel bad for everyone who cannot enjoy a game unless they're "keeping up" with everyone else.

It's fun to play and progress at your own pace with a group of friends or a whole guild of your own. Even if you're not the premier raid guild on the server, you can still have all the same fun of progressing with your friends.

To a certain extent, I understand the desire to surpass others. However, in MMOs, it's really a factor of time. So do you really care to brag "I spent more time playing this game than you." It doesn't even have any connotation of "I am better than you." Just that you've been grinding longer and harder.
Breavman
Profile Joined September 2004
Sweden598 Posts
May 05 2014 17:08 GMT
#36
An RPG-game is about playing a role (pretty obvious). In single player games you almost always play the hero part. But if you think about it, the strength of MMORPG is that you can be any part, even a not so significant one. The world goes on with or without you. So focus on your experience and don't compare yourself or strive to be the best.
XXXSmOke
Profile Blog Joined November 2004
United States1333 Posts
May 05 2014 17:18 GMT
#37
I am at a similar problem as you.

Especially since I have settled down a lot more with full time job+fiance.

Here's my beef with MMO's, they have basically become way to casual. MMO's are about a "everybody wins if they put time in!"

What MMOs are missing now a days(minus eve) is that the best story/drama you can create in a video game is that which is created by the players themselves not the game designers.

Wonder what I am talking about? read this about EVE http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/games/88121-metagaming-in-eve

When I first read that my jaw dropped, the people that have played that game since it came out, are basically creating their own star wars. The politics, deceit, and greed in that game are so real its mind blowing. That's the kind of experience MMO's need to deliver. Something real, not some bullshit story line as I progress through my safe leveling zones killing stupid fuckin ai. If I wanted a good story I would read a book.

Think about a game like SWTOR. I lasted 1 month in that game, because it was the exact same garbage that has been coming out year after year. Now think about what SWTOR could of been had they adapted a style more like EVE. Imagine being a real bounty hunter capturing peoples characters from a guild and holding them ransom? Imagine actually controlling a planet with your guild and having to defend it.

This is the shit MMO needs, not a care bear shiny item game you got for killing AI bosses. People will say that it wont work because the design will frustrate people. "if my character gets captured I cant play him for a couple of days!" Well fuckin deal with it. Some guy a few months ago lost $200,000 of in game items in EVE, this kind of player interaction is exactly what MMO's need to become.
Emperor? Boxer disapproves. He's building bunkers at your mom's house even as you're reading this.
Firebolt145
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
Lalalaland34491 Posts
Last Edited: 2014-05-05 17:59:49
May 05 2014 17:59 GMT
#38
Technically speaking it was just one guy that lost $200,000 of stuff in EVE; it was a lot of guys who collectively lost that amount. Still absurd, but not quite as much as the way you put it.
Moderator
HackBenjamin
Profile Blog Joined January 2011
Canada1094 Posts
May 05 2014 18:14 GMT
#39
I have no problems paying a monthly subscription for a game that is maintained, updated and kept cheat/bug free with reasonable latency. I have been playing WoW since launch, with a couple of months taken off for breaks/staleness. As the game has been around for 10 years, it's really easy to find things to do, especially along the way to max level. Socially, I enjoy the fact that I can log on and play with RL friends and family, or longtime internet friends who still play.
XXXSmOke
Profile Blog Joined November 2004
United States1333 Posts
May 05 2014 18:14 GMT
#40
On May 06 2014 02:59 Firebolt145 wrote:
Technically speaking it was just one guy that lost $200,000 of stuff in EVE; it was a lot of guys who collectively lost that amount. Still absurd, but not quite as much as the way you put it.


Yes,

But

Think about how different that is than your typical MMO, the consequences are about 000000000000000000000.11 % as bad as EVE, in fact I cant think of really any consequences. In games like SWTOR or GW2 when I played them.
Emperor? Boxer disapproves. He's building bunkers at your mom's house even as you're reading this.
Prev 1 2 3 Next All
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
Next event in 5h 46m
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
Nina 249
ProTech63
StarCraft: Brood War
Sea 4119
Zeus 1095
Leta 685
zelot 112
Sacsri 72
Noble 19
HiyA 18
NotJumperer 16
Bale 13
Icarus 10
League of Legends
JimRising 910
Counter-Strike
Stewie2K750
Super Smash Bros
hungrybox2561
Other Games
summit1g14227
ROOTCatZ133
RuFF_SC2105
Organizations
Other Games
gamesdonequick1557
StarCraft 2
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
sctven
[ Show 17 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• davetesta69
• practicex 60
• Kozan
• LaughNgamezSOOP
• sooper7s
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• Migwel
• IndyKCrew
StarCraft: Brood War
• iopq 3
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
• BSLYoutube
League of Legends
• Doublelift5976
• Rush1728
• Lourlo1206
Other Games
• Scarra2215
Upcoming Events
Wardi Open
5h 46m
Sparkling Tuna Cup
1d 4h
WardiTV European League
1d 10h
Online Event
1d 12h
uThermal 2v2 Circuit
2 days
The PondCast
3 days
Replay Cast
3 days
Korean StarCraft League
4 days
CranKy Ducklings
5 days
Sparkling Tuna Cup
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

BSL 20 Non-Korean Championship
FEL Cracow 2025
Underdog Cup #2

Ongoing

Copa Latinoamericana 4
Jiahua Invitational
BSL 20 Team Wars
CC Div. A S7
IEM Cologne 2025
FISSURE Playground #1
BLAST.tv Austin Major 2025
ESL Impact League Season 7
IEM Dallas 2025
PGL Astana 2025
Asian Champions League '25

Upcoming

BSL 21 Qualifiers
ASL Season 20: Qualifier #1
ASL Season 20: Qualifier #2
ASL Season 20
CSLPRO Chat StarLAN 3
BSL Season 21
RSL Revival: Season 2
Maestros of the Game
SEL Season 2 Championship
WardiTV Summer 2025
uThermal 2v2 Main Event
HCC Europe
ESL Pro League S22
StarSeries Fall 2025
FISSURE Playground #2
BLAST Open Fall 2025
BLAST Open Fall Qual
Esports World Cup 2025
BLAST Bounty Fall 2025
BLAST Bounty Fall Qual
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2025 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.