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I played WoW cause I had friends on it, liked the game, and played pretty competitively (PvE DPS/guild rankings and a bit of decent PvP) which was fun and involved quite a lot of research/theorycrafting. I liked being able to spend time on the game doing relaxing stuff, and also having a competitive side to it and special rewards for it. I never liked farming or achievements hunting though, but the cool thing with MMOs (at least good ones) is that you can play the game a lot of different ways.
It's kind of subjective anyway, you can play for a lot of different reasons and like some things and hate others. I really liked playing in a guild with friends and still being able to get good rankings and stuff though. It still felt really good to be the 2nd world's best warrior on a boss, or be the 4th guild to kill another in your country. The fun I got from the game plus the people I got to know thanks to it were way worth the subscription 
Also, the game is an interesting sample of humanity. I'll never forget some of the people I've talked with..
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On May 05 2014 16:34 Torte de Lini wrote:
Ultimately, it leads to the rationale that, if I am so far behind from everyone else, it is pretty futile for me to progress because I assume, stupidly, that everyone is progressing at a similar if not, faster speed that me and thus I will always be outclassed.
This is your problem.
Why bother doing anything if you don't believe you can catch up to anyone and that's all you care about?
If anything mmo gear is way easier to catch up to than skill.
MMOs are like any other game, if you find them fun play it, if you don't, don't play it. MMOs might be addicting or whatever but its mostly because theres always people to talk to.
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On May 05 2014 22:30 Slayer91 wrote:Show nested quote +On May 05 2014 16:34 Torte de Lini wrote:
Ultimately, it leads to the rationale that, if I am so far behind from everyone else, it is pretty futile for me to progress because I assume, stupidly, that everyone is progressing at a similar if not, faster speed that me and thus I will always be outclassed.
This is your problem. Why bother doing anything if you don't believe you can catch up to anyone and that's all you care about? If anything mmo gear is way easier to catch up to than skill. MMOs are like any other game, if you find them fun play it, if you don't, don't play it. MMOs might be addicting or whatever but its mostly because theres always people to talk to.
I think it's the stupid view that I am giving up before even trying, but with a game that demands a lot of commitment (if I want to catch up); it sounds a bit sane.
I'm not fearful of addiction; I just want to feel like I'm dog-paddling in a deep sea of a game.
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It sounds like you're doing one of those destination before journey things. There's no point playing just to reach the very endgame, if the climb there isnt fun you probably wasted most of your time.
Especially for something like EVE you have to be happy playing your own smaller role because that really is a game where if you want to catch up you have to put in tonnes of time. That game is definitely an exceptional case though.
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Lalalaland34502 Posts
On May 05 2014 22:49 Slayer91 wrote:
Especially for something like EVE you have to be happy playing your own smaller role because that really is a game where if you want to catch up you have to put in tonnes of time. That game is definitely an exceptional case though.
Partially disagree. If you want to become some bigshot alliance leader who plays a large role in the metagame, sure that will take quite a lot of time. But if you simply want to learn how to play the game, it doesn't really take 'tonnes of time'.
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thats whyI said "smaller role" and not "learn how to play the game"
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On May 05 2014 22:49 Slayer91 wrote:
It sounds like you're doing one of those destination before journey things. There's no point playing just to reach the very endgame, if the climb there isnt fun you probably wasted most of your time.
Especially for something like EVE you have to be happy playing your own smaller role because that really is a game where if you want to catch up you have to put in tonnes of time. That game is definitely an exceptional case though.
100000000000% this. Yeah, I am. For me, I want to know how far I can get before I dive in because otherwise I can just devote my time elsewhere. It is 100% a question of time-rationale, which I think is fair, but then I lose the point of playing games.
I'm fine with smaller roles, being at the bottom. Especially with EVE where there are literal kingpins and shit and a hierarchy that is actually used and valued (unlike some MMOs where its just a social effect).
But when I tried EVE, I always ask: what can I do for the corporation I'm in and it's always; do whatever you like. Well, I want to do things that help people and be a part of the main group; even if I'm just a fly on the wall.
I play for the interaction and be with people, something I'll need to build no matter what I do.
On May 05 2014 22:53 Firebolt145 wrote:Show nested quote +On May 05 2014 22:49 Slayer91 wrote:
Especially for something like EVE you have to be happy playing your own smaller role because that really is a game where if you want to catch up you have to put in tonnes of time. That game is definitely an exceptional case though. Partially disagree. If you want to become some bigshot alliance leader who plays a large role in the metagame, sure that will take quite a lot of time. But if you simply want to learn how to play the game, it doesn't really take 'tonnes of time'.
I want to learn, but I want the feeling that I am going somewhere at least.
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For me, MMO's fit into my personality type. I'm an optimizer by nature. I take great pleasure in figuring out faster and more efficient ways to do things. That's essentially what an MMO is: repetitive tasks that you are rewarded for optimizing by getting more rewards in less time than other people.
Interesting, as I wrote that out I just realized that I should be more involved in the Speed Running community. WTF. That stuff should be right up my alley, but for some reason I haven't gotten into it other than to watch streams.
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On May 06 2014 00:20 Takkara wrote:
For me, MMO's fit into my personality type. I'm an optimizer by nature. I take great pleasure in figuring out faster and more efficient ways to do things. That's essentially what an MMO is: repetitive tasks that you are rewarded for optimizing by getting more rewards in less time than other people.
Interesting, as I wrote that out I just realized that I should be more involved in the Speed Running community. WTF. That stuff should be right up my alley, but for some reason I haven't gotten into it other than to watch streams.
that definitely sounds like speedrunning! Do Kirby All-Stars :D
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I use to play a lot of subscription mmos back in the day with wow being the longest i ever subbed to something(like 6 years with only missing a few months). Now i cant stand the thing if its not some hybrid freemium game. I understand the sub goes towards new content and server maintence but anymore i hate not being able to play the content ive already purchased just because i didnt give them 15$ this month. Thats why i like swtor currently. If you dont pay you can still play albeit with some restrictions. But even then you can purchase unlocks that make it less "painful" using ingame money or real life money.
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On May 06 2014 00:32 FromShouri wrote:
I use to play a lot of subscription mmos back in the day with wow being the longest i ever subbed to something(like 6 years with only missing a few months). Now i cant stand the thing if its not some hybrid freemium game. I understand the sub goes towards new content and server maintence but anymore i hate not being able to play the content ive already purchased just because i didnt give them 15$ this month. Thats why i like swtor currently. If you dont pay you can still play albeit with some restrictions. But even then you can purchase unlocks that make it less "painful" using ingame money or real life money.
That's why I like GW2, but to be honest; no PVP arena like in GW1 and how the end-game was just sorta cosmetics made the game kinda bland for me. But then again, I like the idea that I don't have to grind for better equipment.
I keep debating if I want to go back or not; 20 euros to server transfer. WvW sucked hard though.
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I've learned a nice word describing the experience when I used to play ACE Online: soothing (thanks Vilatan!).
Personally I hate MMOs since they are a huge time sink without a proper end goal. Considering I'm terrible at coming up with interesting challenges, I only pick up games that have strictly defined terms of victory. That being said, I know a lot of people just enjoy their time doing stuff for vague goals in them, even if it's repetitive.
On May 05 2014 16:46 Torte de Lini wrote:Show nested quote +On May 05 2014 16:45 Onekobold wrote:On May 05 2014 16:34 Torte de Lini wrote:
So what justifies people to play MMOs? fun usually Can you elaborate on the fun part?
I've seen this question many times before, usually in the form of "How is this fun?", and assuming you are looking for an actual answer to that question, I can only tell you this: if somebody else has to explain to you why something is fun, it probably isn't to you. On the other hand, asking "What is fun about it" will lead you to certain aspects of games that you might want to explore.
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The real cost of MMOs is not the money, it's the huge time investment to grind and keep up with everyone else. It's hard to have a satisfying experience if you just play a little here and there.
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Pandemona
Charlie Sheens House51493 Posts
I played WoW since 2005, always find myself going back to it. I guess the fun you can have with hours at a time doing PvE raids is second to none. I have made some of my best friends from WoW many of whom are not the average WoW player stereotypes. I like WoW for the team aspect and just trolling the fuck out of eachother on voice comms whilst progressing 2-3 hours in an evening. Or farming till 4am on weekends of silly things just because you can. Nothing has beaten them for me and only MMOs seem to bring that out.
I have played pretty much every MMO and i always go back to WoW. The big killer was supposed to be GW2 but i didn't even get to max level on that "/
How do you justify playing an MMO? If it entertains you for the value you think it is worth. Hell i go to the cinema when i can as i love watching stuff on the big screen, but the value in the Cinema is shocking, costs me £30 when me and someone go whether it be my dad or a friend due to the price of tickets and popcorn alone. Then i always need a piss halfway through and want to pause like i would on netflix or a DVD xD...anyway back the point. Things aren't justified in value outside of MMOs so i don't think you should try and justify an MMO subscription. If you play it 10+ hours a week and enjoy it then its justified. If you can AFFORD to do that it is also justified.
Thats the best way i can word why i do it.
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I feel bad for everyone who cannot enjoy a game unless they're "keeping up" with everyone else.
It's fun to play and progress at your own pace with a group of friends or a whole guild of your own. Even if you're not the premier raid guild on the server, you can still have all the same fun of progressing with your friends.
To a certain extent, I understand the desire to surpass others. However, in MMOs, it's really a factor of time. So do you really care to brag "I spent more time playing this game than you." It doesn't even have any connotation of "I am better than you." Just that you've been grinding longer and harder.
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An RPG-game is about playing a role (pretty obvious). In single player games you almost always play the hero part. But if you think about it, the strength of MMORPG is that you can be any part, even a not so significant one. The world goes on with or without you. So focus on your experience and don't compare yourself or strive to be the best.
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I am at a similar problem as you.
Especially since I have settled down a lot more with full time job+fiance.
Here's my beef with MMO's, they have basically become way to casual. MMO's are about a "everybody wins if they put time in!"
What MMOs are missing now a days(minus eve) is that the best story/drama you can create in a video game is that which is created by the players themselves not the game designers.
Wonder what I am talking about? read this about EVE http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/games/88121-metagaming-in-eve
When I first read that my jaw dropped, the people that have played that game since it came out, are basically creating their own star wars. The politics, deceit, and greed in that game are so real its mind blowing. That's the kind of experience MMO's need to deliver. Something real, not some bullshit story line as I progress through my safe leveling zones killing stupid fuckin ai. If I wanted a good story I would read a book.
Think about a game like SWTOR. I lasted 1 month in that game, because it was the exact same garbage that has been coming out year after year. Now think about what SWTOR could of been had they adapted a style more like EVE. Imagine being a real bounty hunter capturing peoples characters from a guild and holding them ransom? Imagine actually controlling a planet with your guild and having to defend it.
This is the shit MMO needs, not a care bear shiny item game you got for killing AI bosses. People will say that it wont work because the design will frustrate people. "if my character gets captured I cant play him for a couple of days!" Well fuckin deal with it. Some guy a few months ago lost $200,000 of in game items in EVE, this kind of player interaction is exactly what MMO's need to become.
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Lalalaland34502 Posts
Technically speaking it was just one guy that lost $200,000 of stuff in EVE; it was a lot of guys who collectively lost that amount. Still absurd, but not quite as much as the way you put it.
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I have no problems paying a monthly subscription for a game that is maintained, updated and kept cheat/bug free with reasonable latency. I have been playing WoW since launch, with a couple of months taken off for breaks/staleness. As the game has been around for 10 years, it's really easy to find things to do, especially along the way to max level. Socially, I enjoy the fact that I can log on and play with RL friends and family, or longtime internet friends who still play.
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On May 06 2014 02:59 Firebolt145 wrote:Technically speaking it was just one guy that lost $200,000 of stuff in EVE; it was a lot of guys who collectively lost that amount. Still absurd, but not quite as much as the way you put it.
Yes,
But
Think about how different that is than your typical MMO, the consequences are about 000000000000000000000.11 % as bad as EVE, in fact I cant think of really any consequences. In games like SWTOR or GW2 when I played them.
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EPT
