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Sweden33719 Posts
On February 16 2014 05:41 dvorakftw wrote:Show nested quote +On February 16 2014 04:16 Liquid`Jinro wrote:
as someone who watches the game in bursts every 6 months or so I'd feel the exact same way about how good HotS is if I didn't regularly watch. If they fixed early game TvP and improved the Swarm Host attack mechanic I think the complaining would be cut by an order of magnitude.
I have been watching daily for the past month or so, as well as dling replays, so I shouldnt understate ho much ive watched in this time period.
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Great post Jinro. GL with MMA.
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Sweden33719 Posts
On February 16 2014 05:37 aZealot wrote:Show nested quote +On February 16 2014 04:55 Destructicon wrote:
Well, I agree with you on a lot of things, despite a lot of bitching that goes around the forums the game has indeed improved a lot.
The map pool right up to this season was fantastic and the way Blizzard has handled new maps was a lot better. The MUs all became a lot more dynamic in HoTS and a lot more exciting for the most part. I can honestly say that for 2013 HoTS was a huge improvement to WoL.
But to say that the game still doesn't have some issues is kind of naive, sure the game hasn't yet reached the snooze fest that WoL became at the end but, at this rate its getting there. I think you aren't quite viewing it with the same scrutiny as the rest of the community here on TL, because you haven't watched as much SC2 as the rest of them. I for one saw nearly all premier tournaments last year and nearly all GSTL and Proleague games to boot. I've already seen hundreds of SH games and, after so many of them, I know for sure I don't want many more of them. And thus the current trend of seeing more SH games and also longer ones worries me greatly.
I agree that a lot of the doom and gloom posts are still stupid, I do hate the disrespect that a lot of top end players are receiving because of all of these recent trends, but I don't really think they should be ignored either. They are signs of a problem and that things should indeed change.
You posted that BW also had its spurs of bad periods and its own problems, but maps improved, strategies changed and that period ended. All this discontent is the community crying out for a change. The same way your body alerts you to a problem by producing pain, the same way the community and the players are trying to reach out and signal a problem.
There is always room for improvement. But, I'll explain my fear when it comes to SC2. Not that it won't reach the standard or "legacy" of BW (whatever that means) or be the greatest E-Sport of all time. Frankly, I could not give a single shit about any of that. But, that we complain so much and so consistently that we create problems where there are none while also creating new problems from solving old problems and end up chasing our tails in an ever decreasing circle. With all the whining that goes on, my concern is that we "as a community" will eventually get what we whine for. And it will not be a better game.
A decent amount of the games problems already comes from our (mine included) whining in pre beta. Macro mechanics for instance.
Still, as problematic as mules or warpgates can be I still am happy they are in there.
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Great blog jinro, hopefully your optimism can be spread to the community, including myself again.
Though I can't help but wonder if you were an active Terran player right now...the atrocities in TvP my friend...the atrocities you have not yet experienced and hopefully will never experience lol. I think your view on the game would be quite different if you had to play mostly TvP in it's current state on ladder all day like some of us do :D
Regardless, LOTV will reinvigorate the game of course and there will be a lot of excitement for sure. Just have to hope blizzard and the design team will take feedback from the community about things like say...high ground advantage, etc. that everyone has posted about since the Wings of Liberty beta but never really came to fruition but are shown to be possible in mods like starbow.
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On February 16 2014 05:26 BigFan wrote:well, it is a featured blog unless you mean featured article lol
It wasnt featured blog when he said it or I said "agree" ;D
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I mean every game of TvZ was far from being just BL/Infestor even back when you quit playing SC2. But that was the popular circlejerk of that era and it stuck just like the swarmhost whine of this era sticks with us today.
You're still right of course about SC2 being in a much better state than ever. But circlejerks are just how communities tend to work, and I think it's mostly part of a broader frustration that has to do with other aspects that are more complex than can be put into words.
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Really good post, glad that someone with a big voice was able to say something like this
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4713 Posts
By the way, I am not in that crowd that wants SC2 to be a BW clone, I accept and respect Blizzard's decision to move in their own direction. The one thing I'd like to see more is just taking good design elements from BW to be used in SC2, like units having interesting strengths and weaknesses, great potential to be more cost efficient the more and the better you micro, proper space control etc.
The SH is a interesting take on space control, it needs some tweaks and it could be better. The energy idea is kind of interesting and we definetly could use more constructive criticism and brainstorming instead of all the "daed gaem" posts.
Anyway, thanks for the blog and also for taking the time to talk to us and further elaborate your feelings. Its actually refreshing to see an outside perspective on the scene and to remind us that we actually have made some progress.
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Sweden33719 Posts
On February 16 2014 05:54 LaLuSh wrote:
I mean every game of TvZ was far from being just BL/Infestor even back when you quit playing SC2. But that was the popular circlejerk of that era and it stuck just like the swarmhost whine of this era sticks with us today.
You're still right of course about SC2 being in a much better state than ever. But circlejerks are just how communities tend to work, and I think it's mostly part of a broader frustration that has to do with other aspects that are more complex than can be put into words.
You are right of course, it was more used for effect.
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Italy12246 Posts
On February 16 2014 05:54 LaLuSh wrote:
I mean every game of TvZ was far from being just BL/Infestor even back when you quit playing SC2. But that was the popular circlejerk of that era and it stuck just like the swarmhost whine of this era sticks with us today.
You're still right of course about SC2 being in a much better state than ever. But circlejerks are just how communities tend to work, and I think it's mostly part of a broader frustration that has to do with other aspects that are more complex than can be put into words.
This, so very true. I feel like it's getting worse with sc2 though.
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On February 16 2014 04:39 Maegi wrote:Show nested quote +On February 16 2014 04:29 Torte de Lini wrote:
StarCraft II just seems weaker in comparison to other titles and different approaches to eSports.
There are a lot of inherent flaws naturally.
And what are these "inherent flaws"? Do you just believe that smaller viewer numbers == weaker game?
eSports insfrastructures.
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really enjoyed the read!
I had the same idea about SH losing life when spawning locusts, so zergs would need to be careful doing it. But I really would like SH to be cheaper, faster, could only spawn locust when in range of the enemy and locust costing money. (25 minerals)
btw, Which martial arts have you been practicing?
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Great write-up Jinro. Appreciate it.
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Sweden33719 Posts
On February 16 2014 06:02 ivancype wrote:
really enjoyed the read!
I had the same idea about SH losing life when spawning locusts, so zergs would need to be careful doing it. But I really would like SH to be cheaper, faster, could only spawn locust when in range of the enemy and locust costing money. (25 minerals)
btw, Which martial arts have you been practicing?
I train at a full MMA gym, so all the training is geared towards mma. There are 4 coaches, one with background in bjj, one in wrestling, one I think is all mma and the headcoach (and one of the more oldschool mma fighters in korea) originally started in kyokushin. 3 of the 4 coaches (except the wrestler) are active fighters.
Edit: oh I forgot the head coach who mostly coaches the fighters. I dont know his complete background but he's a 10th planet guy under eddie bravo among other things. Very knowledgeable overall from what I've seen (he usually only coaches the pros before fights etc but occasionally he will step in for one of the regular classes).
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On February 16 2014 05:42 Teoita wrote:I feel like what's gotten so much worse isn't necessarily the game (as you say it's gotten better), but the community. When you think of it, a LOT people (or the so called vocal minority, or whatever...) have been complaing about something in sc2 extremely vehemently since, let's say, the range 5 queen patch. That is a lot of time to get "used" to complaining about basically everything, and it's gotten to a point where, almost always, it's always the solution. Lose in ladder? Cry about balance. Terran loses in GSL? Cry about balance. Boring games? Cry about balance. It's really frustrating  But yeah, amazing post Jinro, i wish more people just simply enjoyed watching the game 
TLs staff/important people have been complaining since WoL alpha.
you cant blame negativity on the community when its been that way since day 1.
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I took a break from SC2 because of the great amount of attention I put on Dota 2, but now I'm trying to balance the two games. SC2 is still entertaining to watch after all these years
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On February 16 2014 06:12 NeThZOR wrote:
I took a break from SC2 because of the great amount of attention I put on Dota 2, but now I'm trying to balance the two games. SC2 is still entertaining to watch after all these years
I'm in this exact same situation.
Basically I went from playing / watching SC2 100% to playing Dota 95% SC2 5%, and watching them about 50/50%. I still like to watch SC2, and when I play I still really enjoy it. Hope I can start playing them around the same amount now that I've more or less "learned" Dota.
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SC2 will never be Broodwar, not because it's not as good a game (because it's honestly good enough that it doesn't matter), but because the esports scene is way different today than back then. But what it can be is a really great game, with really amazing tournaments, great personalities and a long life left.
Good night, and remember just because one work of art is beautiful doesn't mean another one can't be too!
This wisdom need to be internalized by the community, and it's blogs like these that bring optimism into our discourse. People have gotten into the habit of being negative. However, thoughtful positivity can be equally, if not more, contagious.
Thanks!
also- it's been really nice to see the IEM group numbers being 50k+
Especially because Jaedong was consistently playing some amazing games.
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that was beautiful, and really made me rethink my position on sc2
not that i was complaining before, but i was certainly more pessimistic than i am now that ive read this blog
thanks for opening my eyes lol
p.s. now that youre ripped you have to post pics of your muscles
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Really nice to hear this from Jinro.
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EPT
