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Back to School - Page 2

Blogs > thedeadhaji
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c0ldfusion
Profile Joined October 2010
United States8293 Posts
October 01 2013 13:58 GMT
#21
I hope this isn't too personal, but just wondering, how old are you roughly (over or under 30)? I always got the impression that you were an older guy, by TL standards at least.

Are you doing your MBA full-time? I've thought about doing it myself but I feel like the opportunity cost of not working for 2 years is a bit much.

Best of luck in B-school!
caelym
Profile Blog Joined June 2008
United States6421 Posts
October 01 2013 19:20 GMT
#22
Any advice on getting into business school? I'm thinking of applying next year.
bnet: caelym#1470 | Twitter: @caelym
thedeadhaji *
Profile Blog Joined January 2006
39489 Posts
October 01 2013 21:39 GMT
#23
On October 01 2013 22:58 c0ldfusion wrote:
I hope this isn't too personal, but just wondering, how old are you roughly (over or under 30)? I always got the impression that you were an older guy, by TL standards at least.

Are you doing your MBA full-time? I've thought about doing it myself but I feel like the opportunity cost of not working for 2 years is a bit much.

Best of luck in B-school!


I'm around 30, but my mental age is 40+ and on top of that I had that bad habit of being the haughty condescending asshole online

I'm doing it full time. The opportunity cost is admittedly massive so I'd look hard at what you want to become and what tangible things you want to gain from a program before committing.

On October 02 2013 04:20 caelym wrote:
Any advice on getting into business school? I'm thinking of applying next year.


Without knowing more about you, all I can say is that getting into the best programs is about having name brands on your resume, high test scores, high GPA, great recommendations, and being personable in the interviews. Also, write what the school wants to hear about you in your essays rather than what you necessarily really believe.

Vague advice I know, but if you want to discuss further I'm happy to chat via email or something along those lines so shoot me a pm here to get the ball rolling
thedeadhaji *
Profile Blog Joined January 2006
39489 Posts
October 01 2013 21:56 GMT
#24
>nath

I totally hear ya. I think it's always about the quality of the person rather than whatever degree she may have, especially with a business degree where seemingly everyone and their grandma has one these days. And I agree with you that the best people (who are the people you want) would have been just fine without getting such a degree.


I considered not going to MBA and just changing jobs again laterally until the very last moment, but in the end there were some concrete reasons for being here that I decided to act on. Without having tangible things you're trying to get out of a professional program, I agree that it can potentially be totally worthless. I'll eventually explain in a future blog, but I have some non-professional, life reasons for being here as well.
nath
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
United States1788 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-10-02 00:04:23
October 01 2013 23:53 GMT
#25
On October 01 2013 20:05 Erik.TheRed wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 01 2013 11:15 nath wrote:
On October 01 2013 02:36 Erik.TheRed wrote:
On September 30 2013 15:15 thedeadhaji wrote:

"I want to be the guy in between the suits and the hackers who can fight for the technical guys".



I feel the same way actually, albeit a bit more oriented towards the business/managerial side of things as my coding skills are mediocre.

That's why I decided to take a Masters in Strategic IT Management in Stockholm, I feel like it's a good mix of business and technical skills, and it covers a lot of ground albeit not being super in-depth in any one field.

I feel pretty comfortable with my job prospects though, since there seems to relatively few people who possess both the understanding of IT systems and the ability to communicate their implications in front of a business development team and/or investors. I might still take a few additional CS/database electives though since I probably shouldn't be as squeamish of coding as I currently am (I've only had about 2 semesters of python, java and SQL in my undergrad program).


i am a (lifelong/highly technically proficient) programmer that learned business-savvy from common sense, and just going out there. i run a dev shop now and am proficient in any situation from marketing services to garnering interest and investment in in-house products. no need for an MBA or a bullshit middle-of-the-road degree. just take what technical knowledge you know and use business 101 common sense and you will be more powerful than rehashing knowledge extending from a 'curriculum' in how to manage people in a field. knowing the field then just jumping into managing people works out much better and the experiential knowledge makes you way better.

other programmers are realizing this and you are going to lose out with your middle-of-the-road degree (mostly erik, an mba will always make you get an overinflated job in the worst case for haji). 2nd best doesn't mean much in the cutthroat tech industry, unless you are happy with the same salary/status you'd have as a project manager or bullshit middle manager. and thats assuming you'd be 2nd best. you'd likely be in the 20's-30's for whatever niche you work with/for.

when you die you'll think about the value you created in the world, and it won't be pretty. you will never have the respect of programmers even if you proclaim you are 'in between the suits and hackers fighting for the hackers' thats ridiculous. a good hacker can do that job, 1000x better. thats my point...

your field will get phased out (Strategic IT management) the more companies realize they can take an outgoing good programmer and just make him/her a manager. They are slowly but steadily realizing this.

my constructive advice is just to get as good at programming as possible or focus 100% on business.


First of all, thanks for the thorough reply! I really do appreciate the tips.

A lot of the things you say about middle-of-the-road degrees do resonate with me and I definitely agree that the opportunity cost for acquiring such degrees can be quite high. However, when I initially made the decision to pursue a masters I came up with a decent number of reasons that convinced me it was the best choice. Basically, in order of value/importance:

1) I'm half-Swedish so I get free tuition
2) Enables networking and potential internships with big IT companies (I'm basically studying in the silicon valley of Sweden)
3) Study-abroad/international experience and learning a foreign language (especially useful with Swedish-American businesses)
4) US economy still not in the best shape and no guarantee I would find work with room for growth. (Harder to prove because I didn't exactly apply to many jobs before graduating since I was preparing to study overseas).

I think the first two points alone are enough to justify spending 2 more years in school, especially since I have a great deal of flexibility when it comes to picking classes and a thesis that won't be a waste of time. I also agree with your advise that I should focus much more on business, which is what I plan on doing since my technical knowledge is about as good as it needs to be without actually wanting or expecting to do any actual coding on-the-job. Rather, I maintain a more managerial perspective -- that understanding the basics of how the IT systems work will lead to better decisions on the business-setup and organizational processes.

That being said, I would actually much rather be working and learning on the field but I can't really find evidence that not having a masters won't make a difference in finding a better starting position. All the evidence points to the contrary (especially #2 and #3 in my list) so I feel that it still makes more sense to just make the most of my situation and stay in school for a few more years.

staying in school is more than fine! i would really really recommend either going for a full on business degree in your case (or full on CS if you were interested in being a technical leader, but that is not your interest). its a better way to spend your education because the technical skills can be learned in spare time easily. and really, lets all be honest with ourselves, no matter how 'tech-savvy' you get as a manager, for the type of management you want to go into its really mostly just jargon + understanding what your technical people are communicating.

i really would never tell you to stop school, lol. personally i did that since i was getting job offers for jobs that masters candidates were applying to before i finished my BS (physics), so it made sense for me. i didnt mention this and wasn't conveying the sentiment of leaving school in my post, though...not sure where you saw that. apologies if i did.
Founder of Flow Enterprises, LLC http://flow-enterprises.com/
nath
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
United States1788 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-10-01 23:57:40
October 01 2013 23:56 GMT
#26
On October 02 2013 06:56 thedeadhaji wrote:
>nath

I totally hear ya. I think it's always about the quality of the person rather than whatever degree she may have, especially with a business degree where seemingly everyone and their grandma has one these days. And I agree with you that the best people (who are the people you want) would have been just fine without getting such a degree.


I considered not going to MBA and just changing jobs again laterally until the very last moment, but in the end there were some concrete reasons for being here that I decided to act on. Without having tangible things you're trying to get out of a professional program, I agree that it can potentially be totally worthless. I'll eventually explain in a future blog, but I have some non-professional, life reasons for being here as well.

ah i guess i must have really conveyed that sentiment of leaving school, lol.

i meant its better to specialize then learn the cross-disciplinary skills outside of school/in the field than 'majoring' in a cross-disciplinary field.
and the goal of "being between suits and hackers fighting for hackers" is always going to be a niche better filled by a business-savvy hacker than a 'hacker-savvy' businessman.

Founder of Flow Enterprises, LLC http://flow-enterprises.com/
KlaCkoN
Profile Blog Joined May 2007
Sweden1661 Posts
October 02 2013 06:21 GMT
#27
You sound cool, but should have come to berkeley instead, I want more cool friends lol.
Best of luck with your new degree. Try not to get assimilated by the sharks though, too many of those around already =p
"Voice or no voice the people can always be brought to the bidding of their leaders ... All you have to do is tell them they are being attacked and denounce the pacifists for lack of patriotism and exposing the country to danger."
thedeadhaji *
Profile Blog Joined January 2006
39489 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-10-02 07:34:16
October 02 2013 07:31 GMT
#28
On October 02 2013 08:56 nath wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 02 2013 06:56 thedeadhaji wrote:
>nath

I totally hear ya. I think it's always about the quality of the person rather than whatever degree she may have, especially with a business degree where seemingly everyone and their grandma has one these days. And I agree with you that the best people (who are the people you want) would have been just fine without getting such a degree.


I considered not going to MBA and just changing jobs again laterally until the very last moment, but in the end there were some concrete reasons for being here that I decided to act on. Without having tangible things you're trying to get out of a professional program, I agree that it can potentially be totally worthless. I'll eventually explain in a future blog, but I have some non-professional, life reasons for being here as well.

ah i guess i must have really conveyed that sentiment of leaving school, lol.

i meant its better to specialize then learn the cross-disciplinary skills outside of school/in the field than 'majoring' in a cross-disciplinary field.
and the goal of "being between suits and hackers fighting for hackers" is always going to be a niche better filled by a business-savvy hacker than a 'hacker-savvy' businessman.



I'll eventually become a full blown suit for sure. That's the trajectory I'm on, and it's really just a matter of time. Sentimentally, I wish I could stay affiliated with the tech side as long as possible; while my skills are mostly business side now, my heart is still very much a nerd

(and yes, at least in an ideal world, the in between role is best filled by those who can play the politics game while being a technical star as well. The combination is pretty hard to come by in one person though, so you do often see these politician/engr.mgr. tandems that do quite well)

On October 02 2013 15:21 KlaCkoN wrote:
You sound cool, but should have come to berkeley instead, I want more cool friends lol.
Best of luck with your new degree. Try not to get assimilated by the sharks though, too many of those around already =p


Haha I'm sure Cal has plenty of awesome people there already. I wouldn't be adding much!

But yes, I will be dearly trying to avoid becoming the pointy haired manager!

hmsrenown
Profile Joined July 2010
Canada1263 Posts
October 02 2013 17:17 GMT
#29
Well, I'm in law school with a biochem undergrad degree and I also want to be the guy between suits and scientists It's always great to see someone else with a similar idea
thedeadhaji *
Profile Blog Joined January 2006
39489 Posts
October 02 2013 21:38 GMT
#30
On October 03 2013 02:17 hmsrenown wrote:
Well, I'm in law school with a biochem undergrad degree and I also want to be the guy between suits and scientists It's always great to see someone else with a similar idea


Patent Law?
Someone's going for the big bucks!
EJK
Profile Blog Joined September 2013
United States1302 Posts
October 03 2013 00:48 GMT
#31
Why not be a suit fighting for hackers? I want to be a suit, but a suit that makes a difference in the world. And the only way I will do that is being better than all the other suits out there
Sc2 Terran Coach, top 16GM NA - interested in coaching? Message me on teamliquid!
kierpanda
Profile Blog Joined May 2011
United States757 Posts
October 03 2013 01:08 GMT
#32
I thought about going to get my MBA, but I'm not too sure if I still want it. :\

But yes, I will say there is a lot of misunderstanding between the "suits" and the "hackers". Someone's gotta translate! Good luck. :D
I cook things! :3 | Twitter: @kierpanda | www.eatgamelive.com
Disregard
Profile Blog Joined March 2007
China10252 Posts
October 03 2013 05:32 GMT
#33
Unfortunately there's a mysterious alluring force of greed and capitalism that consumes said suits.
"If I had to take a drug in order to be free, I'm screwed. Freedom exists in the mind, otherwise it doesn't exist."
sam!zdat
Profile Blog Joined October 2010
United States5559 Posts
October 03 2013 05:47 GMT
#34
On October 03 2013 14:32 Disregard wrote:
Unfortunately there's a mysterious alluring force of greed and capitalism that consumes said suits.


nono. they will change the system from within
shikata ga nai
teddyoojo
Profile Blog Joined June 2011
Germany22369 Posts
October 03 2013 14:44 GMT
#35
On October 02 2013 06:56 thedeadhaji wrote:
>nath

I totally hear ya. I think it's always about the quality of the person rather than whatever degree she may have, especially with a business degree where seemingly everyone and their grandma has one these days. And I agree with you that the best people (who are the people you want) would have been just fine without getting such a degree.


I considered not going to MBA and just changing jobs again laterally until the very last moment, but in the end there were some concrete reasons for being here that I decided to act on. Without having tangible things you're trying to get out of a professional program, I agree that it can potentially be totally worthless. I'll eventually explain in a future blog, but I have some non-professional, life reasons for being here as well.

sounds like a female reason :D
Esports historian since 2000. Creator of 'The Universe' and 'The best scrambled Eggs 2013'. Host of 'Star Wars Marathon 2015'. Thinker of 'teddyoojo's Thoughts'. Earths and Moons leading CS:GO expert. Lord of the Rings.
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