EPTedit: I'll take a look at Ben Lazier sometime. I'm always happy to read interesting Jewish writers.
The Progressive Faith in the Christian Life - Page 13
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koreasilver
9109 Posts
edit: I'll take a look at Ben Lazier sometime. I'm always happy to read interesting Jewish writers. | ||
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Luthier
62 Posts
On September 16 2013 08:00 koreasilver wrote: edit: Can we all just unequivocally say that denying evolution is utterly asinine regardless of whether one is or is not religious? I've actually met atheists that didn't believe in evolution and other "hot topic" North American science stuff like global warming. Trying to reduce North American anti-scientific attitudes to Christianity like some people do all over this forum is just as stupid, as is reducing religious thought into some "irrational" mode of thought or whathaveyou. Both the anti-scientific attitude and the dichotomizing of science/religion and the corresponding rational(scientific)/irrational(religious) dichotomy is pretty much a cultural victory of the historical reactionaries (the fundamentalist reaction against the legacy of the Enlightenment and Liberal Protestantism; the Feynman acolytes and New Atheist reactionaries against Anglo fundamentalism) and the political demagogues that abuse this environment. as·i·nine /ˈasəˌnīn/ Adjective Extremely stupid or foolish. Synonyms foolish Look, if you're going to go as far as claiming others are stupid, I would say that given you believe in a fairy in the sky who you can pray to and will listen to you, you are the one who is the dumbass. Check out www.reddit.com/r/atheism sometime and maybe you can finally recognise your joke of a religion for what it is. It absolutely astounds me with all of our technological and scientific advances that in this day and age there are still people who are stupid enough to believe in God/Christianity. User was temp banned for this post. | ||
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koreasilver
9109 Posts
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Djzapz
Canada10681 Posts
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IronManSC
United States2119 Posts
This is a touchy subject, I know, but I felt I had to elaborate on it because it's one of the biggest discussions out there. I hope I said all the right words (if any fellow believer identifies otherwise, please correct me and I will fix it). http://theprogressivefaith.wordpress.com/2013/09/18/christians-and-judging-others/ I am not aiming to start more arguments over this blog. If you firmly disagree with any of it, then I kindly ask that you do not argue for the sake of arguing. | ||
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mizU
United States12125 Posts
http://notalllikethat.org/taking-god-at-his-word-the-bible-and-homosexuality/ An article about Christianity not necessarily supporting, but condemning the condemnation of homosexuality. | ||
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sam!zdat
United States5559 Posts
User was warned for this post edit: for the record 'queer' is not an offensive word, that's what the queers call themselves when they want to study queer things. I should know, I live with two of them. | ||
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IronManSC
United States2119 Posts
On September 19 2013 11:05 sam!zdat wrote: jesus is clearly a queer, what else do you think that 'disciple whom jesus loved' stuff is about. The medievals knew it, ever see those paintings of the last supper and stuff with the prettyboy next to him? User was warned for this post Please do not violate the thread rules, as it is directed towards Christian discussions and those who have open-minded questions. There is no place here for your choice of words. | ||
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IronManSC
United States2119 Posts
http://theprogressivefaith.wordpress.com/2013/09/20/god-confirmed-his-love-through-another-person/ This goes over a time in my life when God clearly confirmed his love for me through another person, and how others can relate to it and recognize the ways that God works. My hope is that people will continue to know Jesus more personally through the journals I continue to write. So I hope you guys enjoy it. | ||
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IronManSC
United States2119 Posts
Talks about how much crap we face (trials, natural disasters, calamity, etc) and yet God speaks to us in the midst of it. Will you take the time to recognize it? http://theprogressivefaith.wordpress.com/2013/09/23/the-la-floods-of-2010/ | ||
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IronManSC
United States2119 Posts
Check out the blog! http://theprogressivefaith.wordpress.com/2013/09/25/the-verse-that-strangles-the-believer/ | ||
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Chocolate
United States2350 Posts
On September 26 2013 07:14 IronManSC wrote: My newest blog is up, categorized in 'General Topics'. The blog is titled "The verse that strangles the believer" Check out the blog! http://theprogressivefaith.wordpress.com/2013/09/25/the-verse-that-strangles-the-believer/ By continuously and stubbornly rejecting this prompting, you are deliberately refusing to believe and accept Jesus as Lord and Savior This feels like preaching to the choir to me. This particular sin only happens to non-believers, who don't care about sin because they don't believe in God. Believers can't experience this sin (you actually created a no-true-scotsman situation here by calling them true believers and simply narrowing your definition). What is the point in even saying this, then? That verse also can make you think that doubt is bad. That's a horribly simplistic and fundamentalist approach to religion. Everybody should be at least somewhat skeptical about religion, since it is inherently unable to be proven, hence the concept of faith. To not be skeptical is to become gullible and complacent. If you become complacent then you won't be logically analyzing your own beliefs, just accepting them, which seems to me to defeat part of the point of religion, which is to hone our understanding of the divine through constant inquiry. | ||
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IronManSC
United States2119 Posts
On September 26 2013 07:29 Chocolate wrote: This feels like preaching to the choir to me. This particular sin only happens to non-believers, who don't care about sin because they don't believe in God. Believers can't experience this sin (you actually created a no-true-scotsman situation here by calling them true believers and simply narrowing your definition). What is the point in even saying this, then? That verse also can make you think that doubt is bad. That's a horribly simplistic and fundamentalist approach to religion. Everybody should be at least somewhat skeptical about religion, since it is inherently unable to be proven, hence the concept of faith. To not be skeptical is to become gullible and complacent. If you become complacent then you won't be logically analyzing your own beliefs, just accepting them, which seems to me to defeat part of the point of religion, which is to hone our understanding of the divine through constant inquiry. Doubt, for the Christian, is a result of not trusting God and/or not believing that he is who he says he is. God doesn't want us to doubt our faith in him. I didn't use the word 'doubt' in this blog, but later on I mention that the panic, worry, and fear (which produces doubt) that it can cause to a Christian is healthy, and then I list a few qualities that help us overcome that doubt when we analyze our own beliefs. EDIT: I added the word 'doubt' in there near the lists at the bottom so it can make a little more sense hopefully. | ||
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IgnE
United States7681 Posts
But because of God’s great love and mercy, I believe he gives everyone numerous chances to come to know him, for “He does not want anyone to be destroyed, but wants everyone to repent” – 2 Peter 3  What about poor people in Asia who are born into Hindu/Muslim families and are never exposed to Christ? Are they sinning? Will they go to hell when they die? | ||
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sam!zdat
United States5559 Posts
remember what christ called out on the cross: 'eli, eli, lama sabbacthani?' in christianity, god doubts himself! The most beautiful part of the whole religion | ||
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IronManSC
United States2119 Posts
On September 26 2013 09:42 sam!zdat wrote: faith without doubt loses all dialectical depth and becomes hollow dogma. There can be no faith without doubt remember what christ called out on the cross: 'eli, eli, lama sabbacthani?' in christianity, god doubts himself! The most beautiful part of the whole religion Jesus was saying "my God, my God, why have you forsaken me?" He was experiencing the full wrath of God for our sins-the death we deserve. What does this have to do with a believer having doubts about their faith sometimes? Also, God cannot doubt himself or deny himself, for he cannot contradict himself. I'm not sure what your argument is. | ||
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sam!zdat
United States5559 Posts
where does it say that god can't contradict himself? Isn't he all powerful? Does the law of non contradiction exist over and above the divine? That can't be so, because don't all things emanate from god, including (a fortiori) the law of non contradiction? I think if you say that god is subject to logical laws which exist over and above Him you are on a dangerous road to deism, which is just an interminable bore of a theology, wouldn't you say? in christianity god is split within himself. He is the father AND the son AND the holy ghost. So why couldn't he doubt himself? This is pretty much the most poetic thing in the whole book imo | ||
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IgnE
United States7681 Posts
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IronManSC
United States2119 Posts
On September 26 2013 10:18 sam!zdat wrote: that's not what 'forsake' means. It means 'abandon'. I don't see how you interpet 'my lord my lord why have you abandoned me' to mean 'my lord mylord, damn that hurts!' Jesus felt that he had been abandoned by god, in the very moment of what was supposed to be his triumph! I didn't say 'forsake' meant 'why are you giving me pain'. His words and the following sentence were two different statements I was pointing out. Sorry for the confusion. Yes, to forsake is to abandon. Part of God's wrath was not only the penalty of death, but separation from God. When Jesus hung on the cross, he suffered the consequences for our sins. He experienced not only physical pain and the burden of our sin on his shoulders, but he also experienced the complete separation from the Father, which is why he cried out "My God, My God, why have you forsaken me?" He was spiritually separated from God. He experienced hell on our behalf (that's what hell is, being entirely separated from God, being completely void of his presence). Jesus knew he had to die for our sins. He knew that it was ultimately the plan he was to follow. When he prayed in the garden before his arrest, he asked the Father to release him from the pain he was going to endure because he didn't want to have to go through it, but then he said "not my will, but yours." He willingly and voluntarily gave himself up for us while we were still sinners. Because he was sinless, he was the perfect sacrifice for our iniquity once and for all, which is why every time we sin we ought to ask for forgiveness "in Jesus' Name" because of who he is and what he has done. His triumph was a combination of his death and his resurrection. When he hung on the cross, he said "it is finished!" and then soon died. Three days later, he rose from the dead. His triumph was defeating the power of sin and death by resurrecting to life, and ending the current practice of lawful sacrifice for sins that they had back then. Just a couple examples of what I mean by that... Instead of having a high priest pray for our sins once a year, we can now personally come to God ourselves. Back then if anyone but the high priest entered the 'Most Holy Place' (behind the curtain), they would literally die because the presence of God was there and he is too holy for us to handle, literally. Jesus, who rose from the dead and is seated at the right hand of God, is now our high priest in heaven praying for us on our behalf, and letting his atonement cover our sins when we seek forgiveness through him by faith. Instead of offering a goat or lamb every time we sin, we can now pray in humbleness and ask for forgiveness through the blood of Jesus. That's why in the Old Testament, there is a lot of foreshadowing and symbolism with sacrificing animals to atone for one's sin. It was all pointing towards Jesus and what he would ultimately do for us. It was the shedding of blood that atones. That's why at the first Passover, the angel of the Lord (or angel of death I suppose) would see the blood on the door frame as the atonement, and "pass over" them. Jesus did all this because he loves you and wants you to be made forever right with him, and he made it incredibly easy; by faith. On September 26 2013 10:18 sam!zdat wrote: in christianity god is split within himself. He is the father AND the son AND the holy ghost. So why couldn't he doubt himself? This is pretty much the most poetic thing in the whole book imo In Genesis 1, God said "Let us make man in our image." Let us (plural) make man in our (singular) image. This is the first verse in the Bible that expresses the Trinity: three unique, divine persons, but they are ONE God. As Christians it is a little confusing how that seems to be, and it's hard to fully understand how it looks. Point in case, God enables us, by faith, to believe that God is who he says he is. Faith itself is a gift from God so that we can believe. On September 26 2013 10:18 sam!zdat wrote: where does it say that god can't contradict himself? Isn't he all powerful? Does the law of non contradiction exist over and above the divine? That can't be so, because don't all things emanate from god, including (a fortiori) the law of non contradiction? I think if you say that god is subject to logical laws which exist over and above Him you are on a dangerous road to deism, which is just an interminable bore of a theology, wouldn't you say? The Bible says that when we are unfaithful, God remains faithful, for God cannot deny himself. For God to deny himself, (his all-loving, all-powerful, and all-knowing nature), would be him literally denying his own deity. That would mean he is not eternal, all-knowing, and all-powerful, and therefore would doubt and even contradict himself because he would not be divine. God is a supernatural person with an incomprehensible nature. For God to doubt himself would mean that Jesus's death on the cross would have little to no effect on believers, meaning his blood might be able to cover your sins, but wouldn't know if his own divinity could make that possible. In other words, there would be no efficient way for God to make it possible for us to make it right with him, which would mean he is not omnipotent. The Bible says with full confidence that Jesus is able to forgive, and that Jesus is the way, the truth, and the life. I really feel like you are just arguing for the sake of tripping me up and trying to find a way to attack me. On September 26 2013 11:20 IgnE wrote: How does God call you if you are born a Muslim in rural Pakistan or a farmer in rural China? The right way to come to God is the way he brings you. It could be through a person (friend, family, missionary, stranger, local church, etc), or it could be in a more divine way such as a dream or vision. However God wants to personally reveal himself to someone is his own choice and it will be sufficient for them. | ||
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IgnE
United States7681 Posts
On September 26 2013 14:52 IronManSC wrote: The right way to come to God is the way he brings you. It could be through a person (friend, family, missionary, stranger, local church, etc), or it could be in a more divine way such as a dream or vision. However God wants to personally reveal himself to someone is his own choice and it will be sufficient for them. So every person on earth, including people born in rural Pakistan and China will be sufficiently exposed to Christ, such that if they do not accept him and become Christians, they will be damned in hell? | ||
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