EPTOf Dota2 and League of Legends - Page 3
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Luepert
United States1933 Posts
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rabidch
United States20289 Posts
On August 14 2013 14:21 ReignSupreme. wrote: Huh? Heroes in Dota have lore aswell, aswell as a large number of voice responses pandered towards other heroes (ie. When a Treant Protector and a Timbersaw are picked in the same match, the responses can vary depending on whether they're allies or against each other. (Just for background, Timbersaw's lore makes him scared of tree-people after they came and destroyed the city he lived in) Ally: There's...a giant...tree-person...right next to me. Stay calm. Ha ha ha ha. Just stay calm. Enemy: If you fall in the woods, and I laugh, will anyone hear me? Not to mention that LoL lore changes whenever Riot deem fit  its mostly because all LoL characters are some kind of humanoid archetype concept, while much of dotas are tied to wc3, many some kind of crazy animal or weird race, and also suffered from the sped up development time for TI1. what LoL has in "personalities" are a lot more boobs, badass knight or assassin guy, or cute yordle archetypes that valve tends to avoid. as for graphics, i assure you whether things contrast or not doesnt really make a difference for knowing what happens in teamfights as much as experience. | ||
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Bam Lee
2336 Posts
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beesinyoface
2450 Posts
I think for the most part TI3 did a good job of explaining why some drafts were better than others, and why certain items were good (or should have been picked up.) You can't expect them to explain everything every game, it'd piss off "normal" players who just wanna watch. I feel Ayesee did a pretty damn good job casting for new players; when I first started watching I had no idea what anything was, but his casts always helped ease me into my first real moba/arts/whatever game. Only real complaint I can agree with is that the tooltips are too congested and need to be shortened down somehow. It shouldn't take 3 sentences to say that your character stuns another person, at least imo. | ||
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Targe
United Kingdom14103 Posts
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Stratos_speAr
United States6959 Posts
On August 14 2013 14:16 Fumanchu wrote: I just reached lvl 30 in LoL on Saturday (wahoo!), and my two biggest complaints are the lack of heroes available and the lack of disables available. I really hate saving up 6300 IP to purchase a new hero that may or may not cater to my playing style. And watching videos, imo, doesn't seem to really help. But a big thing for me is the lack of disables. There are few heroes who have stuns, and I think only one (lulu?) who has a short transformation disable. There are a wack ton of slows, it seems like everyone has a slow of some sort. I just hate that end game if you've chosen an int based hero, not a thing I know but I'm trying to put in terms for dota ppl, end game you have no chance against an attack damage carry. There's nothing you can purchase that can disable them. There's no item that renders you invisible, or gives you a blink, or allows you to stun/sheep/cyclone/force staff the enemy hero. I can't stand it. However, I have some friends who hate Dota, and love LoL for exactly the same reason. Overall I prefer Dota 2. There's more skill involved IMO. ??? LoL has a ridiculous amount of disables. People regularly complain about the fact that almost every new champion that comes out has some kind of hard CC and that you can make entire team comps that just stun you until death. Oh, and that's another nice thing about LoL: continuing new content. Unfortunately, it also causes some really weird balance problems. And on the personality/fluff side, yea, DotA's voice actors/voice interactions are pretty awesome, but DotA's character backgrounds are incredibly vague and offer no actual depth. LoL has a very active world that is pretty well-presented to players, and each character has a much more interesting and telling backstory. Fluff is NOT DotA's strong point. Just do a comparison of almost any champion from DotA to almost any hero from LoL and it's pretty obvious. As far as I can tell, DotA doesn't even have a cohesive and thorough world that is explained like LoL does, not to mention a comparison of individual backgrounds. | ||
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crayhasissues
United States682 Posts
On August 14 2013 23:27 Stratos_speAr wrote: ??? LoL has a ridiculous amount of disables. People regularly complain about the fact that almost every new champion that comes out has some kind of hard CC and that you can make entire team comps that just stun you until death. Oh, and that's another nice thing about LoL: continuing new content. Unfortunately, it also causes some really weird balance problems. And on the personality/fluff side, yea, DotA's voice actors/voice interactions are pretty awesome, but DotA's character backgrounds are incredibly vague and offer no actual depth. LoL has a very active world that is pretty well-presented to players, and each character has a much more interesting and telling backstory. Fluff is NOT DotA's strong point. Just do a comparison of almost any champion from DotA to almost any hero from LoL and it's pretty obvious. As far as I can tell, DotA doesn't even have a cohesive and thorough world that is explained like LoL does, not to mention a comparison of individual backgrounds. I would disagree that their isn't any lore. The game was just released, and I'm sure more of it will be shown/developed in the coming months. http://dev.dota2.com/showthread.php?t=35923 | ||
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Bleak
Turkey3059 Posts
The hero interactions between each other can be quite hilarious, but I don't see why people are looking for a fully fledged out story with lots of details. | ||
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Warri
Germany3208 Posts
On August 14 2013 23:27 Stratos_speAr wrote: ??? LoL has a ridiculous amount of disables. People regularly complain about the fact that almost every new champion that comes out has some kind of hard CC and that you can make entire team comps that just stun you until death. Oh, and that's another nice thing about LoL: continuing new content. Unfortunately, it also causes some really weird balance problems. And on the personality/fluff side, yea, DotA's voice actors/voice interactions are pretty awesome, but DotA's character backgrounds are incredibly vague and offer no actual depth. LoL has a very active world that is pretty well-presented to players, and each character has a much more interesting and telling backstory. Fluff is NOT DotA's strong point. Just do a comparison of almost any champion from DotA to almost any hero from LoL and it's pretty obvious. As far as I can tell, DotA doesn't even have a cohesive and thorough world that is explained like LoL does, not to mention a comparison of individual backgrounds. That is just your (uneducated) opinion. The dota lore is just spread through hero responses, heroes lore texts, abilitiy texts, item texts etc. No depth/vague? Please tell me how many LoL heroes react to each other. In dota, most heroes are in a relation to each other, be it family, friend or foe. The timber/treant combo was mentioned earlier, but Queen of Pain, who is known for her screaming HATES silencer, and she regularly wonders if crystal maiden really is.. As i said, the lore is there, its just more subtle and spread. Just look at the wiki list of hero response, here for qop: http://dota2.gamepedia.com/Queen_of_Pain_responses http://hydra-images.cursecdn.com/dota2.gamepedia.com/2/2b/Pain_rival_11.mp3 http://hydra-images.cursecdn.com/dota2.gamepedia.com/d/d3/Pain_rival_10.mp3 Here is the lore on the dota world/setting. | ||
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LaNague
Germany9118 Posts
And dota definately has more CC, but league is balanced around the lower CC from mages with ability damage scaling and typical carries not being as devestating as in dota. Plus no BKB. | ||
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Stratos_speAr
United States6959 Posts
On August 15 2013 02:20 Warri wrote: That is just your (uneducated) opinion. The dota lore is just spread through hero responses, heroes lore texts, abilitiy texts, item texts etc. No depth/vague? Please tell me how many LoL heroes react to each other. In dota, most heroes are in a relation to each other, be it family, friend or foe. The timber/treant combo was mentioned earlier, but Queen of Pain, who is known for her screaming HATES silencer, and she regularly wonders if crystal maiden really is.. As i said, the lore is there, its just more subtle and spread. Just look at the wiki list of hero response, here for qop: http://dota2.gamepedia.com/Queen_of_Pain_responses http://hydra-images.cursecdn.com/dota2.gamepedia.com/2/2b/Pain_rival_11.mp3 http://hydra-images.cursecdn.com/dota2.gamepedia.com/d/d3/Pain_rival_10.mp3 Here is the lore on the dota world/setting. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xT1dKTqXrPw 1) There are several unique voice interactions between champions in LoL. Yea, DotA's VA'ing is definitely better, but the VA'ing doesn't make up for the vague and empty background stories. 2) Almost every LoL champion has a significant relationship with another one, and this knowledge is actually available as well. 3) You are simply proving my point. Even if it is there, DotA lore is very spread out and not presented at all when you play the game or when you're on their website. You aren't immersed in it whatsoever. Seriously, why care about lore? The game is about killing shit, earning money, using money to buy shit, and killing the enemy heroes, eventually destroying their base. The hero interactions between each other can be quite hilarious, but I don't see why people are looking for a fully fledged out story with lots of details. Yea, cool, good for you. Fortunately, there's more than one type of person, and many people do care about lore/immersion. Just because the genre is all about killing for you (which can be said about any game genre, if you want it to be) doesn't mean that's the case for everyone. I am simply pointing out that LoL is a better experience for players that like that side of the game more, while DotA is a much better competitive/challenging experience. | ||
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Warri
Germany3208 Posts
On August 15 2013 03:18 Stratos_speAr wrote: 1) There are several unique voice interactions between champions in LoL. Yea, DotA's VA'ing is definitely better, but the VA'ing doesn't make up for the vague and empty background stories. 2) Almost every LoL champion has a significant relationship with another one, and this knowledge is actually available as well. 3) You are simply proving my point. Even if it is there, DotA lore is very spread out and not presented at all when you play the game or when you're on their website. You aren't immersed in it whatsoever. Yea, cool, good for you. Fortunately, there's more than one type of person, and many people do care about lore/immersion. Just because the genre is all about killing for you (which can be said about any game genre, if you want it to be) doesn't mean that's the case for everyone. I am simply pointing out that LoL is a better experience for players that like that side of the game more, while DotA is a much better competitive/challenging experience. 1) I played like 50 games, but i dont remember any voice interaction at all to be honest. At least nothing that stood out as funny or witty or whatever. 2) Ok i cant argue with that. 3) I dont get that at all. What exactly do you want? 10 page essays on each hero in their description? What do you mean not presented? You can read the lore in the ingame client by going to the Library tab, or on http://www.dota2.com/heroes/ . It's just a very small portion that is actually written down in the heroes description, the rest is done through voice acting and you only find out if you actually play the game, or if you go to the site i linked and play all the responses. Also, each ability has a short lore text that describes how the hero obtained the ability, where the hero came from etc. How exactly is this not "presented at all when you play the game"? It is exactly that. Most responses may not be that "deep" but if you watch the video i linked, there is a lot of subtle stuff that you can find out. Oh btw, you know what the ultimate "not presented the lore while playing" is? Not having the heroes playable in the first place. | ||
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wherebugsgo
Japan10647 Posts
The graphics thing is a bit weird for people coming from LoL. Before LoL I used to play SC2 and before that WC3-I can say that I like the comparative sizes of things in LoL more than I do in the other two games. WC3 for the most part is pretty good about distinguishing heroes and regular units but the original DotA uses unit models that can make the game look really confusing. Also, the spells in the original DotA are sometimes hard to recognize, especially when many are used simultaneously. LoL does a good job in distinguishing champions from things that are not champions, but overall the graphics are really messy and it's much harder to tell what's going on in fights than in DotA2, IMO. In this respect it has that same problem as WC3 DotA. In DotA2 everything seems crisper. Once you have played and/or watched DotA2 for a few days it becomes easier to tell what's going on because you start recognizing more things on an instinctual level. | ||
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WolfintheSheep
Canada14127 Posts
Colour contrast is meaningless when you still require a massive amount of game knowledge. | ||
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Unleashing
Denmark14978 Posts
On August 14 2013 23:27 Stratos_speAr wrote: And on the personality/fluff side, yea, DotA's voice actors/voice interactions are pretty awesome, but DotA's character backgrounds are incredibly vague and offer no actual depth. LoL has a very active world that is pretty well-presented to players, and each character has a much more interesting and telling backstory. Fluff is NOT DotA's strong point. Just do a comparison of almost any champion from DotA to almost any hero from LoL and it's pretty obvious. As far as I can tell, DotA doesn't even have a cohesive and thorough world that is explained like LoL does, not to mention a comparison of individual backgrounds. The bolded is extremely wrong. And the lore is easily available, but hey i guess if you're not looking for it it can be hard to find, then again when i'm just playing LoL occasionally because friends asks me to i am also not shown any lore seeing that i'm not looking for it. When just playing the game i run into zero lore in LoL while in dota i hear plenty of lore from hero interaction. I mean have you even read the comic or the achronicus? Easily available for anyone looking for lore. There is definitely a lot of good and deep lore in DotA and DotA most definitely has great fluff. Heck valve created a unique language for their demons. | ||
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Fumanchu
Canada669 Posts
On August 14 2013 23:27 Stratos_speAr wrote: ??? LoL has a ridiculous amount of disables. People regularly complain about the fact that almost every new champion that comes out has some kind of hard CC and that you can make entire team comps that just stun you until death. Oh, and that's another nice thing about LoL: continuing new content. Unfortunately, it also causes some really weird balance problems. And on the personality/fluff side, yea, DotA's voice actors/voice interactions are pretty awesome, but DotA's character backgrounds are incredibly vague and offer no actual depth. LoL has a very active world that is pretty well-presented to players, and each character has a much more interesting and telling backstory. Fluff is NOT DotA's strong point. Just do a comparison of almost any champion from DotA to almost any hero from LoL and it's pretty obvious. As far as I can tell, DotA doesn't even have a cohesive and thorough world that is explained like LoL does, not to mention a comparison of individual backgrounds. Sorry I wasn't putting it into correct words. What I meant was, that if you don't choose a hero with a disable then you're boned, because there is no purchasable disable. Oh one more thing I'm not a fan of, is that a lot of the spells can be seen by the enemy, thus giving them a chance to dodge the attack. And a lot of the time it seems unnecessary. For instance with Caitlyn's ult, it's fine to put a marker above the intended target's head, but do we really need a line also, so that any brain dead moron can decipher its trajectory? Although despite this, I still play the game every so often, and will continue to do so with my friends who enjoy it. | ||
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Stratos_speAr
United States6959 Posts
On August 15 2013 09:05 Fumanchu wrote: Sorry I wasn't putting it into correct words. What I meant was, that if you don't choose a hero with a disable then you're boned, because there is no purchasable disable. Oh one more thing I'm not a fan of, is that a lot of the spells can be seen by the enemy, thus giving them a chance to dodge the attack. And a lot of the time it seems unnecessary. For instance with Caitlyn's ult, it's fine to put a marker above the intended target's head, but do we really need a line also, so that any brain dead moron can decipher its trajectory? Although despite this, I still play the game every so often, and will continue to do so with my friends who enjoy it. Yea, that's one of the things a lot of people complain about now; so many champions are being rendered obsolete by not having any hard CC. I dont get that at all. What exactly do you want? 10 page essays on each hero in their description? What do you mean not presented? You can read the lore in the ingame client by going to the Library tab, or on http://www.dota2.com/heroes/ . It's just a very small portion that is actually written down in the heroes description, the rest is done through voice acting and you only find out if you actually play the game, or if you go to the site i linked and play all the responses. Also, each ability has a short lore text that describes how the hero obtained the ability, where the hero came from etc. How exactly is this not "presented at all when you play the game"? It is exactly that. Most responses may not be that "deep" but if you watch the video i linked, there is a lot of subtle stuff that you can find out. The bolded is extremely wrong. And the lore is easily available, but hey i guess if you're not looking for it it can be hard to find, then again when i'm just playing LoL occasionally because friends asks me to i am also not shown any lore seeing that i'm not looking for it. When just playing the game i run into zero lore in LoL while in dota i hear plenty of lore from hero interaction. I mean have you even read the comic or the achronicus? Easily available for anyone looking for lore. There is definitely a lot of good and deep lore in DotA and DotA most definitely has great fluff. Heck valve created a unique language for their demons. Again, pretty much the only lore you can get either A) in-game or B) from the official website for the game is the vague hero backstories. There is very information on the world, why we are fighting, anything like that. Voice interactions only do so much, and they definitely do not fill in half as much fluff as what is openly present in the LoL game client/official website. LoL presents maps of the world, why we are fighting, various conflicts/factions/etc., much more detailed backstories for every champion, what each unique map is about, and so on. Sure, there might be a lot of lore out there for DotA, but it is dispersed between several available mediums and you truly have to search for it, as opposed to it being readily available like most games. Really, all I am seeing here is butthurt DotA fans that can't take criticism to save their damn lives. This is like one of a grand total of TWO things that LoL does better than DotA (the other being clearer spell tooltips), and even then you DotA fanboys can't let it live. It's kind of pathetic. It won't kill you to admit that DotA was designed with competitive multiplayer in mind and lore as a convenient side attraction, whereas lore took a relatively (for MOBA's) prevalent role in LoL's design. | ||
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udgnim
United States8024 Posts
on paper, can say DotA is the more complex, difficult game compared to LoL, but the games are different enough to emphasize different skill sets and 1 player being good at one of the games does not mean they will be good at the other think BW pros transitioning to SC2 | ||
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Kreb
4834 Posts
Granted, theres no easy solution for a single set of commentators to make it understandable for new players without probably annoying more seasoned players. But another set of commentators which focused a lot more on explaining how things work, how heroes interact with each other and why the teams decisions make sense etc could be a good idea. As for right now, I dont think theres any good solution other than playing the game. And playing a lot. Not very encouraging if you arent into it, I know, but I dont really see another way. | ||
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Bleak
Turkey3059 Posts
On August 15 2013 13:14 Stratos_speAr wrote: Yea, that's one of the things a lot of people complain about now; so many champions are being rendered obsolete by not having any hard CC. Again, pretty much the only lore you can get either A) in-game or B) from the official website for the game is the vague hero backstories. There is very information on the world, why we are fighting, anything like that. Voice interactions only do so much, and they definitely do not fill in half as much fluff as what is openly present in the LoL game client/official website. LoL presents maps of the world, why we are fighting, various conflicts/factions/etc., much more detailed backstories for every champion, what each unique map is about, and so on. Sure, there might be a lot of lore out there for DotA, but it is dispersed between several available mediums and you truly have to search for it, as opposed to it being readily available like most games. Really, all I am seeing here is butthurt DotA fans that can't take criticism to save their damn lives. This is like one of a grand total of TWO things that LoL does better than DotA (the other being clearer spell tooltips), and even then you DotA fanboys can't let it live. It's kind of pathetic. It won't kill you to admit that DotA was designed with competitive multiplayer in mind and lore as a convenient side attraction, whereas lore took a relatively (for MOBA's) prevalent role in LoL's design. Why are we fighting? Hmm..let's see. Because someone decided to create a map called Defense of the Ancients in Warcraft 3 Map Editor, and through the colloboration of a tight-knit community and people who want to contribute, the game became popular and created a completely new genre of gaming (excluding its prototype AoS in SC) . What makes Dota good is its dynamics and its gameplay. It's not a game that's played for its story, lore and side information about heroes can be interesting to read, but it's just that, nothing more. In that sense Valve did a pretty good job already for immersion, especially through voice acting. Lore isn't important, lore isn't what made Dota popular or what makes it a great game. | ||
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