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I will admit that before The International 3, I have never watched Dota2 beofre for more than 15 minutes. But I do know the basic concepts of MOBAs (or whatever they are called) from League of Legends.
I got into LoL with the Season2 NA qualifiers for S2 Worlds and watched it ever since.
These are the main things I observed at the International"
The good (about dota2):
- the drafting system: I just thought it was better (don't ask me for logical reasons)
- the ingame statistics
- fight seemed more spread out and seemed to last longer
- everything (mainly abilities) seemed so strong, bordering overpowered
- the map: it was nice seeing trees being destroyed and the style differences between dire and radiance side
- i heard the client is a masterpiece compared to the LoL one (and it's not hard to believe)
The bad (about dota2):
- the graphics style: not being used to the style, I sometimes had trouble distinguishing heroes from minions (some heroes seemed really really small)
- the commentators: they commentary was not targeted to people like me who wanted to get into dota2. I had to keep a tab open just to search who OD was, what BKB was and other stuff.
- again this is just me not knowing about Dota, but I didn't understand the metagame at all: what is the off-lane, freefarm lane, why going offensive tri-lane is better than going duo-lane + jungler (as in LoL). I would have liked to have something that explained this to me
- maybe it's just coming from LoL, but heroes teleporting all over the place was pretty confusing
The interesting (about dota 2):
- the buyback system although it wouldn't fit into LoL at all (would be overpowered in the late-game)
- the courier system (would also be a broken feature in LoL)
- denying: I don't consider it good or bad
These are my thoughts. Although I didn't watch every single match, I watched about 20% of the prelimineries and 80% of the playoffs.
 
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I installed and played both LoL and Dota2 last week, to see what the fuss was about. I have to say, Dota2 is a lot prettier. I liked LoL "training" more. But overall, Dota2 kicks ass. No need to buy Heroes.
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I watched my first ever MOBA now during TI3. Mostly because I read alliance was kicking ass. What disturbed me was how hard it was to see where on the minimap the screen was centered. The white box-thing that tells you this is very very hard to see compared to Starcraft.
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On August 13 2013 22:34 MaxViktory wrote:
I watched my first ever MOBA now during TI3. Mostly because I read alliance was kicking ass. What disturbed me was how hard it was to see where on the minimap the screen was centered. The white box-thing that tells you this is very very hard to see compared to Starcraft.
huh I can see that being a big pain for someone not very familiar with the game.
Once youv played enough you can just look at any part of the map and now exactly where you are and whats around you since the map never changes.
Nice blog, I love reading peoples first thoughts on watching/playing dota, especially if their first moba experience was with LoL like mine was.
The reason I made the switch was because of free heroes primarily but also because abilities are, as you say, more overpowered in a sense which made it more fun for me to watch. Normal abilities in Dota can look like ultimates in LoL.
And ultimates in dota can look completely broken xd
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United States682 Posts
My roommate has played LoL for years, and has played a few games of Dota 2 with me. His biggest complaint was that he couldn't see enough on the screen. I think the map is a lot bigger in Dota 2, but I'm not 100% on that one.
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It's funny to see that everything you listed as a con for DotA was just that you aren't familiar with the game. Play a couple of games, get flamed really hard for being bad, don't start boots/pots, and it'll all fit eventually!
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Buyback is kinda overpowered in Dota as well  Icefrog nerfed it recently (the cooldown) but it is debatable how much that helped.
I'm not sure what the courier system would unbalance in League, but couriers would be very vulnerable when everybody has flash.
PS: League graphics are a disaster. Dota's are (in comparison) excellent. "I don't know what is going on on screen" is a knowledge issue not a graphics one.
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LoL is just a "neutered" version of Dota. Even Dota 2 was dumbed down a bit, at least with the courier system.
LoL has no couriers, no denying, no buyback system, no runes.
Also the fact that in LoL you can check the creep kill and inventory of anyone on the map via the score board is broken.
In Dota 2, key items on some heroes are "not revealed" until they can initiate with them. And the players from the other team have to constant check the opposing heroes inventory.
It's funny that everything listed under "bad" are things that you are not familiar with because you have no experience playing the game.
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On August 13 2013 22:34 MaxViktory wrote:
I watched my first ever MOBA now during TI3. Mostly because I read alliance was kicking ass. What disturbed me was how hard it was to see where on the minimap the screen was centered. The white box-thing that tells you this is very very hard to see compared to Starcraft.
TI3 was my first time watching a dota game and I felt absolutly the same, was always disoriented/confused of what was going on mainly because I had no idea where I was. Cool experience nontheless...
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I've played maybe 2 games of LoL, maybe 5 of Dota in WC3, 0 of HoN and 0 of Dota2.
As someone who's never played, the commentators in between matches were pretty useless. They used so much jargon/acronyms and so few explanations of why they held whatever opinions they had made it pointless and it might as well have just been ads in between matches. I also felt they didn't showcase the items enough during matches. All they ever mentioned was when someone picked up blink daggers and BKBs (which I still don't know what they are, besides being awesome). I'm sure other items are important too and can affect what's coming up, even if it's to a lesser degree.
Why's a trilane better than two dual lanes? Why is the early Roshan so important when it seems that no one ever used the Aegis before he respawned anyway? Why is killing the barracks so important when everything you read always says not to push the creep line further towards their tower unnecessarily? Did people ever go back to heal up at their fountain? The stream never showed/mentioned that.
I guess I just felt that they didn't make it very accommodating for newer viewers/players, of whom the marquee tournament of the year is bound to cause a large influx.. Other than that, it was pretty entertaining, even without knowing most of the heroes. Felt like everyone thinks Batrider and Wisp (Io?) are overpowered but I have no clue why.
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What I hated most in LoL was the Champion rotation, and why some would be more expensive then others?
In Dota 2, you can pick anything you like in the first game, you won't have any cosmetic items, but those are not important anyway. But in LoL, you have to play with the Champions that are in the rotation for that specific week, then you have to gather points to buy your own, and on top of all there is the shitty leveling system that adds up, and basically you will want to get to the max level as soon as possible to have access to small buffs that adds up very quickly.
Even if LoL is Free to play, it's not a fair free to play system. Riot has chosen that system so that they can milk as much as they can from their players. But in Dota 2 the system is fair and it doesn't force someone to play many games just to achieve highest level on their account to have access to specific abilities and starting "runes".
LoL cosmetic system only works with "full skins", while in Dota 2 you can use different items for each slot.
And on top of this, in Dota 2 you can create your own cosmetic items, and submit them through the steam workshop system, it's a really nice system, that allows 3D artists from around the world to submit their own creations, while in LoL, Riot has it's own artists that sketch the 2D portraits for the new skins and then create the 3D models.
If you are interested in 3D modelling for Dota 2, check this channel
http://www.youtube.com/user/DigitalLiveWorkshop
They have created a lot of items and full sets, and most of them have been added to the game already.
You can see the full workflow to create a 3D model for Dota 2 from scratch (you will need 3D modelling software, and most of them are pretty expensive, but you can use free software like Blender to achieve similar results)
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On August 14 2013 00:03 psychopat wrote:
I've played maybe 2 games of LoL, maybe 5 of Dota in WC3, 0 of HoN and 0 of Dota2.
As someone who's never played, the commentators in between matches were pretty useless. They used so much jargon/acronyms and so few explanations of why they held whatever opinions they had made it pointless and it might as well have just been ads in between matches. I also felt they didn't showcase the items enough during matches. All they ever mentioned was when someone picked up blink daggers and BKBs (which I still don't know what they are, besides being awesome). I'm sure other items are important too and can affect what's coming up, even if it's to a lesser degree.
Why's a trilane better than two dual lanes? Why is the early Roshan so important when it seems that no one ever used the Aegis before he respawned anyway? Why is killing the barracks so important when everything you read always says not to push the creep line further towards their tower unnecessarily? Did people ever go back to heal up at their fountain? The stream never showed/mentioned that.
I guess I just felt that they didn't make it very accommodating for newer viewers/players, of whom the marquee tournament of the year is bound to cause a large influx.. Other than that, it was pretty entertaining, even without knowing most of the heroes. Felt like everyone thinks Batrider and Wisp (Io?) are overpowered but I have no clue why.
Well at ti3 they kind cater for the older generation of dota players so its pretty understandable that you find them useless.
And about bat and io, in dota, positioning wins games. Both heroes mess up positioning so theyre both pretty valuable
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I think dota 2 is just better in every way. The only thing I had a complaint about is that if you are a new player people get really pissed instead of wanting to help you.
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I have about 500 games of dota2 played and to be honest sometimes i don't understand what the casters are saying but it's interesting none the less.
The production value of the international is soooo much better than anything else out there at the moment, i tried to watch some LoL and WCS and they are sooo boring in comparison.
The international is doing wonders promoting the game.
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On August 14 2013 01:05 HeeroFX wrote:
I think dota 2 is just better in every way. The only thing I had a complaint about is that if you are a new player people get really pissed instead of wanting to help you.
That's the same in every game though.
Hell, in BW if you are new, people avoid to play you lol or only play you to get some free iccup points.
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On August 13 2013 23:43 n0ave wrote:
LoL is just a "neutered" version of Dota. Even Dota 2 was dumbed down a bit, at least with the courier system.
LoL has no couriers, no denying, no buyback system, no runes.
Also the fact that in LoL you can check the creep kill and inventory of anyone on the map via the score board is broken.
In Dota 2, key items on some heroes are "not revealed" until they can initiate with them. And the players from the other team have to constant check the opposing heroes inventory.
It's funny that everything listed under "bad" are things that you are not familiar with because you have no experience playing the game.
LoL's scoreboard only updates when you have vision of an opponent, so key items are still hidden in a manner similar to DotA.
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United States682 Posts
On August 14 2013 01:25 Seuss wrote:Show nested quote +On August 13 2013 23:43 n0ave wrote:
LoL is just a "neutered" version of Dota. Even Dota 2 was dumbed down a bit, at least with the courier system.
LoL has no couriers, no denying, no buyback system, no runes.
Also the fact that in LoL you can check the creep kill and inventory of anyone on the map via the score board is broken.
In Dota 2, key items on some heroes are "not revealed" until they can initiate with them. And the players from the other team have to constant check the opposing heroes inventory.
It's funny that everything listed under "bad" are things that you are not familiar with because you have no experience playing the game.
LoL's scoreboard only updates when you have vision of an opponent, so key items are still hidden in a manner similar to DotA.
Still having to remember it is a skill unto itself though. If its past midnight, I'll start forgetting what items each hero on the enemy team are building
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You can't expect the casters to accommodate 100% information for new players in their casts when they're casting live to a venue of a couple thousand (+1mil-ish online). Just FYI, I saw Firebolt145 advertising himself streaming The International targeted for new players specifically due to how many people said they were inexperienced with Dota in the build up to TI3, perhaps you guys should have caught that (heck, if you'd asked for a new player-friendly stream in one of the LR or GD threads, someone would have pointed it out eventually).
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On August 13 2013 22:34 MaxViktory wrote:
I watched my first ever MOBA now during TI3. Mostly because I read alliance was kicking ass. What disturbed me was how hard it was to see where on the minimap the screen was centered. The white box-thing that tells you this is very very hard to see compared to Starcraft.
You can customize the minimap =)
Heroes can appear as dots (you choose the size) red vs green, or each player its color, or as the hero icon (too confusing for me but some use this) or dot + name of the hero (I use this) and you can resize everything. It's pretty awesome.You have t odo this with the console tho, but there are guides everywhere and even a .cfg generator somewhere.
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On August 14 2013 01:28 crayhasissues wrote:Show nested quote +On August 14 2013 01:25 Seuss wrote:On August 13 2013 23:43 n0ave wrote:
LoL is just a "neutered" version of Dota. Even Dota 2 was dumbed down a bit, at least with the courier system.
LoL has no couriers, no denying, no buyback system, no runes.
Also the fact that in LoL you can check the creep kill and inventory of anyone on the map via the score board is broken.
In Dota 2, key items on some heroes are "not revealed" until they can initiate with them. And the players from the other team have to constant check the opposing heroes inventory.
It's funny that everything listed under "bad" are things that you are not familiar with because you have no experience playing the game.
LoL's scoreboard only updates when you have vision of an opponent, so key items are still hidden in a manner similar to DotA. Still having to remember it is a skill unto itself though. If its past midnight, I'll start forgetting what items each hero on the enemy team are building
Perhaps, but that's a debate on the "probe micro" level that I don't want to start here.
On August 14 2013 01:39 ReignSupreme. wrote:
You can't expect the casters to accommodate 100% information for new players in their casts when they're casting live to a venue of a couple thousand (+1mil-ish online). Just FYI, I saw Firebolt145 advertising himself streaming The International targeted for new players specifically due to how many people said they were inexperienced with Dota in the build up to TI3, perhaps you guys should have caught that (heck, if you'd asked for a new player-friendly stream in one of the LR or GD threads, someone would have pointed it out eventually).
If you're trying to reach a mass audience you can't expect the new/inexperienced/potential players to jump through hoops. If the simple, easy thing isn't catering to them most will simply tune out rather than stumble about trying to find something that caters to them. I'm not saying that TI3 should have dumbed it down, just that you're expecting too much from new players who aren't sold on DotA 2 yet.
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