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[Guitar] Overcoming Plateaus

Blogs > Meow-Meow
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1 2 Next All
Meow-Meow
Profile Blog Joined May 2013
Germany451 Posts
August 05 2013 08:52 GMT
#1
Hey everyone,

around Christmas, I decided to get a couple of guitars as a present for myself.

The first months of practicing went really smoothly, for for every frustrating and sometimes painful exercise I felt that I was progressing steadily. I then discovered "Fingerstyle", which is a rather pretentious term for a really neat technique to really push your acoustic guitar and I haven't touched my electric guitar ever since.

My problem is that I stopped practicing smart and instead just play - or try playing - fingerstyle songs I find on the internet from tabs (usually from Sungha Jung and Kelly Valleau).

While this is fun, and I notice definitive progression within a single song, I don't feel like I'm progressing as a whole. I really want to move away from simply playing a tune from tabs and towards doing my own stuff. So yeah, I want less imitation and more expression.

How do I move towards that?

My first impulse is this: It would be rather helpful to have a clue about what the fuck I'm doing, so I should learn some theory, right?

But even then, I don't feel like I'm getting better at adding pieces to the puzzle, and the more I learn, the more it becomes apparent that I ain't seen nuttin' yet.

I feel like I'm not doing a good job of explaining myself, maybe somebody who was in a similiar situation has some insight into this.

Any advice is greatly appreciated!

Cheers!

***
| (• ◡•)|╯ ╰(❍ᴥ❍ʋ) Like all techno, it's hard to tell if it's good music played horribly or horrible music played well.
Bommes
Profile Joined June 2010
Germany1226 Posts
August 05 2013 09:21 GMT
#2
Learn songs by just listening to them and without looking at tabs at all.

I would recommend starting with relatively easy songs though.
HwangjaeTerran
Profile Blog Joined October 2009
Finland5967 Posts
August 05 2013 09:40 GMT
#3
Take a break. Helps sometimes with guitar playing.
I suggest you go to your local library and get all the introductory guitar/music books you can get. The basic music theory is really simple, some books just make it seem way more difficult than it is. So you should just flip through the first few chapters of those books and pick those books that don't make you more confused. I also suggest looking up the right posture early on. It will save you from a lot of hurt.

Practising from tabs really isn't that bad in itself, especially if you can't read notes. There's a lot of techniques that are very hard to learn by ear. I myself aren't really that good at learning stuff by ear, but I sometimes memorize a song from tabs and then while I'm playing I can figure out what exactly is happening. And more often than not I end up making changes to the way I play the song. The worst thing is playing without using your brain at all. Your fingers only need that much practice.
https://steamcommunity.com/id/*tlusernamehere*/
HaRuHi
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
1220 Posts
August 05 2013 09:56 GMT
#4
ISBN-13: 978-3795751241 For the most complete theory about music in your mothertoungue I ever encountered, does not really matter if you play jazz or not. Maybe a little too excessiv if it's just a hobby. There also is justin guitar . dot com, lots of good, free, well structured material.

The number one thing though:

On August 05 2013 18:21 Bommes wrote:
Learn songs by just listening to them and without looking at tabs at all.

I would recommend starting with relatively easy songs though.
pebble444
Profile Blog Joined March 2011
Italy2503 Posts
August 05 2013 10:21 GMT
#5
I would reccomend studying a major or minor scale. Pick one that sounds good, and practice it, practice it, after a while you will start freestyling it.

Even if you never studied anything about theory, like others said before me, a little theory can make you go a long way.

Take for example F minor Harmonic:
[image loading]

TAB lookes like this:

e|---------------------------0--1-----------------|
B|-------------------1--2-------------------------|
G|--------0--1--3--------------------------------|
D|-----3------------------------------------------|
A|-------------------------------------------------|
E|-------------------------------------------------|

There are other ways as well to play the same scale on guitar (wheter you want it more deep or more high) since you into fingerstyle this scale is on the higher chords should suit you

You can do this with any major scale or minor scale (there are many), most important thing imo is choosing something you like.

If you want i have a piece in F minor harmonic i wrote for guitar just pm me

Just memorize these notes on the guitar, play them a couple of times up and down, and they play them however you like, however you want, only rule is use these 7 notes (or whichever 7 notes you use of any scale).
"Awaken my Child, and embrace the Glory that is your Birthright"
SoSexy
Profile Blog Joined February 2011
Italy3725 Posts
August 05 2013 10:31 GMT
#6
To become good at any instrument, you have to grind hours and hours of boring stuff to get your chops going.
After that, the technique is kinda rooted in you and you can just go with the flow of inspiration. It's similar to playing when you are drunk: you don't think about it, you do it, but if you don't have the technique down, you're limited in what you can do.

As Picasso said, (free translation) 'Learn the skill and put it aside until you need it'
Dating thread on TL LUL
loginn
Profile Blog Joined January 2011
France815 Posts
August 05 2013 10:41 GMT
#7
I would recommend learning how to read music and play studies. They are pieces that can sound relatively nice and are focused on improving one skill (vibrato/left hand speed, right hand speed etc). They are really the bread and butter of not boring improvement. Much more fun to play than scales but let you improve aswell. As for doing your own stuff, just try to play something. If it sound nice, write it down.

PS you can probably find tab studies but there's probably less than actual notes studies.
Stephano, Taking skill to the bank since IPL3. Also Lucifron and FBH
pebble444
Profile Blog Joined March 2011
Italy2503 Posts
August 05 2013 11:00 GMT
#8
What is good? Technically good?

There are many ways to get good and constant and continous practice sure is fondamental, but,

It all depends on your objective:

Whats the point of studying a book on music thoery if your objective is to impress a girl and play 1 song for her on an instrument? none, none at all. Like everything else in life have clear what your objective is. Is music something you want to do to gain the faith/trust of someone? is it something you want to do as a hobby in your downtime, to feel happy? is it something you want to do as a profession?
In the last case, studying music theory is a must, imo, in the second it greatly helps you get where you want faster simply, in the first case the only thing you should learn is how to correctly (for you) hold and "hit/strum/pick/bash" the instrument.

Its all about your objective. Also, beware of people who want to "appear" as a musician, as opposed to people who are/want to be a musician. There is a fundamental difference. And never obey to anyone telling you, you can' t do something because your not good enough. That is bs. Anything is possible, anything in the world, if you can imagine it to be possible. There are no stupid questions, just stupid answers.

Two small examples here:
Jimi Hendrix didn' t know much about music theory. He is however one of the greatest guitar players (personally i' m not mad about him, but i recognize his greatness). How did he get there? by grinding it out doing his own stuff. Stuff he liked.

Adolf Sax, the creator of the well known Saxophone, worked in a music making shop of his father in Belgium. The sax, was refused many times in classic academic instrument approvers. As it turnes out, this is a valid instrument and very popular.
He concieved the Saxophone as a military instrument for band marches. Funny how things work out.

Don' t take these examples in the wrong way. I' m not saying fuck academics. What i' m saying is, if anyone tells you you have to study 10+ years to become a good musician; Music theory is an instrument, not a goal (unless you plan on teaching) . Many musicians get lost into technicality.

I am much more interested in the final result, the actual music.

"Awaken my Child, and embrace the Glory that is your Birthright"
Targe
Profile Blog Joined February 2012
United Kingdom14103 Posts
August 05 2013 12:37 GMT
#9
But even then, I don't feel like I'm getting better at adding pieces to the puzzle, and the more I learn, the more it becomes apparent that I ain't seen nuttin' yet.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning–Kruger_effect

I'm not sure of how good at guitar you are (if you're playing fingerstyle you're on the right track though ^^) but the best way to improve technically is just to keep practising and learning songs, the better technically you are the better you will be able to express yourself via the guitar.
11/5/14 CATACLYSM | The South West's worst Falco main
Awesomedrifter
Profile Blog Joined May 2009
Canada62 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-08-05 13:22:43
August 05 2013 13:21 GMT
#10
I learnt most of my theory from this book

http://www.amazon.ca/dp/0793597897

I think of learning theory as "extra credit" it opens up new ideas and helps you communicate with other musicians but its not an essential skill to have with guitar. If interested you should learn why chords get the names they do and how that relates to a scale. For example it can help if you see a symbol Cmaj7 and aren't sure how to play that, you can look at your C shape chord you do know and figure it out from there. Theory made guitar make a lot more sense for me but I am also pretty academic oriented so your mileage may vary.

Just make sure you keep playing regularly and you'll keep on getting better ^_^
http://awesomedrifter.com/
WombaT
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
Northern Ireland27477 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-08-06 01:40:17
August 06 2013 01:38 GMT
#11
Stop playing for a while, fully if you have some kind of technical issue that is holding you back and you have a mental hurdle in breaking.

With guitar I've done this a few times, with my picking motion on my wrist (3 separate occasions) and once to get rid of real ingrained fingering inefficiencies.

When it comes to being 'creative', write your own stuff. In addition I like to stick on backing tracks, or noodle around over stuff. You get to get a real ingrained sense of tonality and key recognition, and it's also handy in terms of improving your improvisation ability from there.

Theory and learning that will help you rationalise why things work, but it doesn't give you the ear so that you can immediately tell, if that makes sense.
'You'll always be the cuddly marsupial of my heart, despite the inherent flaws of your ancestry' - Squat
TL+ Member
hoby2000
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
United States918 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-08-06 04:09:40
August 06 2013 04:04 GMT
#12
Essentially, no one can answer this for you. It's something you sort of learn as time goes on.

But here are a few tips from someone who writes and plays. I don't do any serious concerts, but I'm doing some writing, and have been for a long time, and have played shows before, and in front of 100+ crowds.

Anyway....

Just do it. Play something someone else did, but change the key. Change the progression a little. Mess around with it. I promise you, you're not original because no one is, and hasn't been for awhile. It's safe to say that thousands of years of music have given us meta-styles so elaborate, there's no way to say that someone is original.

When you start writing, don't be afraid to both stop or keep going. There's no one to tell you when to stop and you'll wear yourself thin playing and writing that you'll get up, but still reminding yourself what you wrote. Just continue doing it. Take someone else's songs, and write a little over it. Keep changing it until you do something you feel like is you. Maybe the song already is you.


When you get sick of writing, start dipping your hand in other things. I read or play a ton of video games. I've gone months without writing, then pick up my guitar and jam out a few tunes. Sometimes it's best to gain inspiration from the world around you - not just music. Try different things. Play a sport, go work out, or just work? Smoke a bowl, a cigarette, mushrooms, watch TV, talk with people, sleep, eat, run.

There's no limit to creativity. There's no rule book, and the best part is that there's no originality so you can be more original in essence due to the loss of unique originality. It sounds crazy, but trust me.


Oh also, you're going to suck big time at first. At least that's what you'll think. You may end up always thinking that. I still do. But people for some fucking weird reason will say you're amazing when you know that you're not. Just smile, nod, and thank them. Also shake their hands and get their name. You have no idea how much people appreciate small shit like that.



EDIT: BIGGEST THING: Write everything you do down or record it. If you don't, do not go crazy over trying to re-create that perfect feeling. You'll never get it back and you must accept the song for what it must become now. If you can't live with that, then don't try to re-write the song.


Double EDIT: Also, look what happens when people try to explain it. Paragraphs of sensless ramblings that say... fucking experiment. It's fun. Trust me.
A lesson without pain is meaningless for nothing can be gained without giving something in return.
XXXSmOke
Profile Blog Joined November 2004
United States1333 Posts
August 06 2013 05:22 GMT
#13
My advice

Learn the petatonic scale(very very basic scale that is made for improv/writing your own music)

Then instead of doing tabs improv over backing tracks on you tube like this



The petatonic scale for this one in standard tuning is

top string fret 5-8

5-7
5-7
5-7
5-8
5-8

All of those notes will sound good over that backing track so you can begin to solo on your own, really fun stuff.
Emperor? Boxer disapproves. He's building bunkers at your mom's house even as you're reading this.
ZERG_RUSSIAN
Profile Blog Joined November 2008
10417 Posts
August 06 2013 05:26 GMT
#14
Theory, 100%. If you can't construct your own chords then there's no way that you'll be able to "progress" into understanding fingerstyle. You need to be able to understand scales to construct chords and you need chords to understand music theory and you need theory to put together songs. It's overwhelming at first but a good teacher will help unless you're a mathematical and conceptual genius who can do it in their head by reading it.
I'm on GOLD CHAIN
ZERG_RUSSIAN
Profile Blog Joined November 2008
10417 Posts
August 06 2013 05:35 GMT
#15
And yeah if you want to feel like you know what you're doing when you play music, don't pick up theory because everyone I know who has like 10+ years of theory is like "I don't know anything compared to people who really understand music" even though they can spout off stuff that would take me a week to figure out just by hearing a piece.

I've been studying theory for about 2 years now on top of 15 years of "just playing" guitar and I know enough to know that I don't know anything about music.
I'm on GOLD CHAIN
ZERG_RUSSIAN
Profile Blog Joined November 2008
10417 Posts
August 06 2013 05:46 GMT
#16
On August 05 2013 20:00 pebble444 wrote:
Two small examples here:
Jimi Hendrix didn' t know much about music theory. He is however one of the greatest guitar players (personally i' m not mad about him, but i recognize his greatness). How did he get there? by grinding it out doing his own stuff. Stuff he liked.

Why do people always say bullshit like this?

Miles Davis taught Jimi Hendrix jazz theory, he talks about it in his autobiography.
I'm on GOLD CHAIN
WombaT
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
Northern Ireland27477 Posts
August 06 2013 05:54 GMT
#17
On August 06 2013 14:46 ZERG_RUSSIAN wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 05 2013 20:00 pebble444 wrote:
Two small examples here:
Jimi Hendrix didn' t know much about music theory. He is however one of the greatest guitar players (personally i' m not mad about him, but i recognize his greatness). How did he get there? by grinding it out doing his own stuff. Stuff he liked.

Why do people always say bullshit like this?

Miles Davis taught Jimi Hendrix jazz theory, he talks about it in his autobiography.

All theory is is a codification of what is pleasing to the ear, and why.

You can easily write great music that conforms to theoretical structures, without knowing the theory itself.
'You'll always be the cuddly marsupial of my heart, despite the inherent flaws of your ancestry' - Squat
TL+ Member
ZERG_RUSSIAN
Profile Blog Joined November 2008
10417 Posts
August 06 2013 05:56 GMT
#18
On August 06 2013 14:54 Wombat_NI wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 06 2013 14:46 ZERG_RUSSIAN wrote:
On August 05 2013 20:00 pebble444 wrote:
Two small examples here:
Jimi Hendrix didn' t know much about music theory. He is however one of the greatest guitar players (personally i' m not mad about him, but i recognize his greatness). How did he get there? by grinding it out doing his own stuff. Stuff he liked.

Why do people always say bullshit like this?

Miles Davis taught Jimi Hendrix jazz theory, he talks about it in his autobiography.

All theory is is a codification of what is pleasing to the ear, and why.

You can easily write great music that conforms to theoretical structures, without knowing the theory itself.

So stop saying bullshit like "Jimi Hendrix didn't know much about music theory" when it's more like "Jimi Hendrix knew more music theory than 99.9999999999% of the people on the planet, he just didn't know what other people called it."
I'm on GOLD CHAIN
Meow-Meow
Profile Blog Joined May 2013
Germany451 Posts
August 06 2013 15:51 GMT
#19
You guys are so nice to write these elaborate responses to my post!

I'll try to use some of the input you gave me, particularly studying theory and becoming more tab-independent.
| (• ◡•)|╯ ╰(❍ᴥ❍ʋ) Like all techno, it's hard to tell if it's good music played horribly or horrible music played well.
hoby2000
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
United States918 Posts
August 06 2013 15:51 GMT
#20
On August 06 2013 14:56 ZERG_RUSSIAN wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 06 2013 14:54 Wombat_NI wrote:
On August 06 2013 14:46 ZERG_RUSSIAN wrote:
On August 05 2013 20:00 pebble444 wrote:
Two small examples here:
Jimi Hendrix didn' t know much about music theory. He is however one of the greatest guitar players (personally i' m not mad about him, but i recognize his greatness). How did he get there? by grinding it out doing his own stuff. Stuff he liked.

Why do people always say bullshit like this?

Miles Davis taught Jimi Hendrix jazz theory, he talks about it in his autobiography.

All theory is is a codification of what is pleasing to the ear, and why.

You can easily write great music that conforms to theoretical structures, without knowing the theory itself.

So stop saying bullshit like "Jimi Hendrix didn't know much about music theory" when it's more like "Jimi Hendrix knew more music theory than 99.9999999999% of the people on the planet, he just didn't know what other people called it."



Then he's an exception. Most musicians know jack shit about the theory of what they're playing. And in fact, more music theory does not mean you will write better music, and suggesting that knowing more theory will improve your music is a logical fallacy. While I agree that knowing theory is good and can help when used in the right instances, I would not suggest that theory helps regardless, nor do I suggest that one must study theory to be good or be better at playing music.

I personally know a lot of theory, but experimenting with chords and understanding the theory behind what you're doing is simply one way to get better. There a ton of others. If you just play and write, you will get better. Progress is not linear in that there are always several paths to take.
A lesson without pain is meaningless for nothing can be gained without giving something in return.
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