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On September 03 2013 23:57 {ToT}ColmA wrote:
what the left wants always sounds kinda nice, problem is they cant pay for shit and just promise what people want to hear, sadly it works for some people. this election period is kinda sad for me, u really dont feel like there is gonna be a change either way, with cdu (merkel) u ll just get the same shit and spd is just a shadow of its former self. even the people i vote for (green) are doing some retarded shit, its just all seems so pointless for me.
I stopped Reading when u said u vote Green...Sorry but how can u vote for such idiots?...
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Basic income would probably work, but I don't think that's actually what the left wants. The left probably wants everyone to have a job and work, right? The basic income idea is about reorganizing everything about taxes. It's using zero income tax. The funds are coming from somewhere else. It's so that paying for everyone's basic income isn't tied at all to who has a job and who doesn't. That just doesn't sound like the left, more like the FDP and Grüne.
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On September 03 2013 23:57 {ToT}ColmA wrote:
what the left wants always sounds kinda nice, problem is they cant pay for shit and just promise what people want to hear, sadly it works for some people. this election period is kinda sad for me, u really dont feel like there is gonna be a change either way, with cdu (merkel) u ll just get the same shit and spd is just a shadow of its former self. even the people i vote for (green) are doing some retarded shit, its just all seems so pointless for me.
The German left party includes several wings. Most of the realistic politicians come from the former GDR. They try to follow a pragmatic course. But from the beginning, the party also have a vocal communist platform which promotes far-left ideas. The left party was created by a union of the former PDS and a new west german leftist party, which brought new left weirdos in.
Pro tip: Any mention of the word "shit" cuts 10% of your postings strength.
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On September 03 2013 23:49 quaZa wrote:
I do vote for the Left(DieLINKE) no doubt. Gregor Gysi such a charismatic Person with much Emotion. But thats not the Main reason. The Left want to remove Hartz4(which does violate basic law) and replace it with Sanction free basic income.All who say this promotes all lazy people...Yes but this is a minority. What about the 55 Year old Person who drops out of his Work after 35 Years of Work? is he Lazy? just a heads up...And the 2nd Part i liek the Left is they want to FORBID subcontracted labor which is nothing else then Modern slavery....Germany needs to be strong again, and promote good Payment for Hard work! Also why we are in Afghanistan? in Kosovo? in Turkey? we should retreat The Bundeswehr out of all conflict areas...
Just my 2 cents.
to be honest... I respect your decision to vote the Linke... this is democracy after all.. but the problem is still that the party never, in no way removed their old SED party members... My wifes grandpa was improsened by this regime for speaking his mind and because he was a former member of the Zentrums party before the war... he endured 20 years of torture and pain and got out broken and without a mind left. and the people that accused him falsely of being an enemy of the state go unpunished unitl this day and are members of the linken party... so to be honest: I don't exept this party no matter how good their actual program is.
We got all the writings while he was interogated by the stasi, and the people that accused him are blacked out, so we can't have any jurisdiction against them, so they are sitll free, and they are still active in politics...
And this agenda by the linken: hey we are the good guys.. brabra
Alll I want to say to them is: Before you judge others.. go ahead and bring the guys to justice that did horrible, horrible crimes against humanity in the DDR...
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Zurich15365 Posts
On September 03 2013 22:40 plgElwood wrote:
Stefan Raab (Comedian) was moderator on the "Tv-Duell" and won it for me.
He asked Steinbrück (SPD candidate) what the people have to vote if they want to keep Merkel as chancelor and him as vc or minister in a big coalition of SPD and CDU/CSU, because actually this would be a very good outcome for most germans (me included). Steinbrück declined a "big coalition" Raab asked him if he wants to "rule himself as the King of Kotlett or do nothing, even if in all positions both parties mostly agree" Steinbrück said yes.
Both big parties (SPD, CDU/CSU) want
-Stable energy costs
-more Wind/Solar
-Less coal/gas
-No Atomicenergy past 2020 or sth.
-Wealth for everyon who earns it
-=More Work, more money
-better Education, and equal education
-More Peace
-Stable Euro
-No more debts
-No more foreign wars
-No more economy crysis caused by Banks
-better healtcare for everyone
-Fair payment for work in needed social fields because of demographic change (more old people need care etc.)
-No espionage on every citizen (CDU Gov lets NSA unpunished, SPD desperately wants "vorratsdatenspeicherung", so both lie in that point)
And they are not even far away from each other in the means to achieve theses goals.
So what really grinds my gears is, that Steinbrück refuses a big coalition.
Problem : CDU/CSU can´t rule alone and FDP is too weak
SPD/Grüne would go together but might fail.
Also the Grüne is obsolete because the big parties have made Energy and Enviroment plans of their own.
The last grand coalition between Union and SPD went catastrophically for the SPD, and she still hasn't recovered from it. It would be next to suicide for the party to agree to another grand coalition under a Merkel administration. If I were in Steinbruecks team I would actually worry about getting results just a bit too good on the 22nd, and be forced into another coalition with the Union by public pressure.
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On September 04 2013 00:09 zatic wrote:Show nested quote +On September 03 2013 22:40 plgElwood wrote:
Stefan Raab (Comedian) was moderator on the "Tv-Duell" and won it for me.
He asked Steinbrück (SPD candidate) what the people have to vote if they want to keep Merkel as chancelor and him as vc or minister in a big coalition of SPD and CDU/CSU, because actually this would be a very good outcome for most germans (me included). Steinbrück declined a "big coalition" Raab asked him if he wants to "rule himself as the King of Kotlett or do nothing, even if in all positions both parties mostly agree" Steinbrück said yes.
Both big parties (SPD, CDU/CSU) want
-Stable energy costs
-more Wind/Solar
-Less coal/gas
-No Atomicenergy past 2020 or sth.
-Wealth for everyon who earns it
-=More Work, more money
-better Education, and equal education
-More Peace
-Stable Euro
-No more debts
-No more foreign wars
-No more economy crysis caused by Banks
-better healtcare for everyone
-Fair payment for work in needed social fields because of demographic change (more old people need care etc.)
-No espionage on every citizen (CDU Gov lets NSA unpunished, SPD desperately wants "vorratsdatenspeicherung", so both lie in that point)
And they are not even far away from each other in the means to achieve theses goals.
So what really grinds my gears is, that Steinbrück refuses a big coalition.
Problem : CDU/CSU can´t rule alone and FDP is too weak
SPD/Grüne would go together but might fail.
Also the Grüne is obsolete because the big parties have made Energy and Enviroment plans of their own.
The last grand coalition between Union and SPD went catastrophically for the SPD, and she still hasn't recovered from it. It would be next to suicide for the party to agree to another grand coalition under a Merkel administration. If I were in Steinbruecks team I would actually worry about getting results just a bit too good on the 22nd, and be forced into another coalition with the Union by public pressure.
Maybe we as the voters should worry less about the fate of parties and more about the issues. If the SPD would shrink again, but delivers good results, they served the people. I still think this is what parties should do.
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jsut a few days left and i still dont know who to vote for. i did the wahlomat and others stuff. i still dont know. propably because most partys are "unvoteable" in my eyes.
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On September 04 2013 00:08 MuMeise wrote:
but the problem is still that the Linke never, in no way removed their old SED party members...
While I sympathize with your personal story, you have to realize that this is a disproportionate demand.
There were thousands of Stasi members, even more informants and millions of SED members in the GDR. It might be hard to accept but these people did not just disappear over night.
It is a fact of life that these people are now members in every party (except the Greens). Hell, CDU is actually the worst in this, they just took over the east CDU in '89 without any real checkup of these block party members till this day. (Ever red on Gauck's activity when he was a pastor reporting to his Stasi contact?)
I am just saying, there are hundreds of ex-SED still in politics (not just in the Linke), just like there were thousands of ex-NSDAP in leading positions in the sixties.
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You´ll just have to wait till they all died. Assuming that would be arround 2050.
Can´t root them out of every party. Also there is no general agenda "you worked for Stasi or had SED membership" so you are still bad and anti-democratic. Some were forced, some did it for family and career, some for power and money, and some because they actually believed in socialism.
Politicians are mostly opportunistic. They say the right things at the right place and time, and they switch around what they think is "right", dependent of who they talk to. If they ever get into a position to change something they have to check what can be done and what they want to do according to their prior mindset.
Take Obama...he wanted to change the World, and changed himself because he could not do the things he wanted, even if i really believe he wanted to.
You got to ask yourself who is in power. And it´s non voted bureaucrats and lobbyists. They don´t change. They work in every ministry, for every poltician, for every parlament.
Take the "Dronen-Desaster" in wich the german ministry of defense sticked to a 500Million-Project for decades, even if it was not viable from the first day. The "Euro Hawk Drone" was never supposed to have an automated colition prevention system WICH IS 100% necessary to get allowence for flying over Europe. There was a closing of mid european air space to transfer it from the US. Still under changing secretaries of defense and changing governments the project was worked on and continued never reviewed or asked, because the secretary of defense and therefore the government only has a weekly meeting with his staff....and "Eurohawk" was put on the agenda under "Other" and so the current secretary did not even knew about it for a long time.
Same goes for education, traffic, safety....there are people, in high positions who have their "weisungsgebundene" minions. And those people ARE NOT VOTED FOR they are grey, nobody knows their names. And nobody cares. And stil they have more influence under lazy secretarys who rather kiss some kids in front of cameras, visit some conflict zone instead of managing all the projects in their department ( what they are for ).
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Zurich15365 Posts
On September 04 2013 00:24 [F_]aths wrote:Show nested quote +On September 04 2013 00:09 zatic wrote:On September 03 2013 22:40 plgElwood wrote:
Stefan Raab (Comedian) was moderator on the "Tv-Duell" and won it for me.
He asked Steinbrück (SPD candidate) what the people have to vote if they want to keep Merkel as chancelor and him as vc or minister in a big coalition of SPD and CDU/CSU, because actually this would be a very good outcome for most germans (me included). Steinbrück declined a "big coalition" Raab asked him if he wants to "rule himself as the King of Kotlett or do nothing, even if in all positions both parties mostly agree" Steinbrück said yes.
Both big parties (SPD, CDU/CSU) want
-Stable energy costs
-more Wind/Solar
-Less coal/gas
-No Atomicenergy past 2020 or sth.
-Wealth for everyon who earns it
-=More Work, more money
-better Education, and equal education
-More Peace
-Stable Euro
-No more debts
-No more foreign wars
-No more economy crysis caused by Banks
-better healtcare for everyone
-Fair payment for work in needed social fields because of demographic change (more old people need care etc.)
-No espionage on every citizen (CDU Gov lets NSA unpunished, SPD desperately wants "vorratsdatenspeicherung", so both lie in that point)
And they are not even far away from each other in the means to achieve theses goals.
So what really grinds my gears is, that Steinbrück refuses a big coalition.
Problem : CDU/CSU can´t rule alone and FDP is too weak
SPD/Grüne would go together but might fail.
Also the Grüne is obsolete because the big parties have made Energy and Enviroment plans of their own.
The last grand coalition between Union and SPD went catastrophically for the SPD, and she still hasn't recovered from it. It would be next to suicide for the party to agree to another grand coalition under a Merkel administration. If I were in Steinbruecks team I would actually worry about getting results just a bit too good on the 22nd, and be forced into another coalition with the Union by public pressure. Maybe we as the voters should worry less about the fate of parties and more about the issues. If the SPD would shrink again, but delivers good results, they served the people. I still think this is what parties should do.
Even looking from that perspective, what could the SPD possibly hope to accomplish in a Merkel-led coalition? Merkel would probably yield a compromise on minimum wage to the SPD, but that's about it. She certainly won't take back anything from the previous years (tax breaks, kitchen premium, much less even Hartz4), and on Euro-crisis issues she won't give the SPD anything substantial either. Would that coalition really be the SPD representing their voter's will?
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Just filled out my voting papers (I always go for voting by mail) and broke out in laughter again about the FDP, with their local candidate being an Apothecary. Perfectly summarizes this party's hubris...
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On September 04 2013 18:46 baummonster wrote:
Just filled out my voting papers (I always go for voting by mail) and broke out in laughter again about the FDP, with their local candidate being an Apothecary. Perfectly summarizes this party's hubris...
Because every Apothecary is a secret criminal who only wants to sell his poisened medicine for high prices and does not care for people at all. Thats perfectly seems to summarize the view of left parties in germany about them, at least thats my impression when I hear them talk,... well I hope you didnt mean it like that 
And also regarding the "kitchen premium": Its ridicolous that you (not the person i quoted, someone in general) think a woman will not go working any more and be binded to the kitchen just because she gets this little piece of cache (in comparison what she can get by working). People who argue like that are the real sexists in my opinion because they think that the woman will make such a decision for that amount of money.
I also am against the Betreuungsgeld for different reasons, but the argument that it will somehow destroy the emanzipation is just stupid in my view.
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On September 04 2013 00:33 Tppz! wrote:
jsut a few days left and i still dont know who to vote for. i did the wahlomat and others stuff. i still dont know. propably because most partys are "unvoteable" in my eyes.
vote for the left, like me
despite of their history, despite of utopic ideas. just to put yourself behind the words "Nie wieder Krieg" (war - never again)
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To be honest most local politicians are an embarassment. My local SPD candidate has the slogan "more weight in berlin" because he is fat.
on die Linke topic I respect them for not changing their opinion every 2 seconds but if they ever get voted into power I will consider armed rebellion.
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according to wahlomat I should be voting for FDP in the bavarian election, and for Grüne in the big election. This doesn't seem very logical to me...
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On September 04 2013 20:55 Yuljan wrote:
To be honest most local politicians are an embarassment. My local SPD candidate has the slogan "more weight in berlin" because he is fat.
on die Linke topic I respect them for not changing their opinion every 2 seconds but if they ever get voted into power I will consider armed rebellion.
oh come on. That's kind of funny 
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On September 04 2013 21:21 Toadesstern wrote:Show nested quote +On September 04 2013 20:55 Yuljan wrote:
To be honest most local politicians are an embarassment. My local SPD candidate has the slogan "more weight in berlin" because he is fat.
on die Linke topic I respect them for not changing their opinion every 2 seconds but if they ever get voted into power I will consider armed rebellion. oh come on. That's kind of funny
reminds me of this one
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/QDw80mZ.jpg)
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On September 04 2013 21:25 schaf wrote:Show nested quote +On September 04 2013 21:21 Toadesstern wrote:On September 04 2013 20:55 Yuljan wrote:
To be honest most local politicians are an embarassment. My local SPD candidate has the slogan "more weight in berlin" because he is fat.
on die Linke topic I respect them for not changing their opinion every 2 seconds but if they ever get voted into power I will consider armed rebellion. oh come on. That's kind of funny reminds me of this one
cringepic if ever there was one.
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On September 04 2013 21:16 mathemagician1986 wrote:
according to wahlomat I should be voting for FDP in the bavarian election, and for Grüne in the big election. This doesn't seem very logical to me...
If you take a step back from looking at some of the details, both are liberal.
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On September 04 2013 20:27 Brot wrote:Show nested quote +On September 04 2013 18:46 baummonster wrote:
Just filled out my voting papers (I always go for voting by mail) and broke out in laughter again about the FDP, with their local candidate being an Apothecary. Perfectly summarizes this party's hubris... Because every Apothecary is a secret criminal who only wants to sell his poisened medicine for high prices and does not care for people at all. Thats perfectly seems to summarize the view of left parties in germany about them, at least thats my impression when I hear them talk,... well I hope you didnt mean it like that
No, I laughed at the combination of someone from the liberal party, which by definition wants to reduce federal regulations to a minimum, who is actually working in one of (if not the) most regulated markets in all of Germany.
Which raises the question on what exactly he would like to accomplish. Either he follows his party's political agenda and tries to push regulations back, which lead to a moral contradiction because such changes would eventually diminish his own work and therefor his social/financial safety. Or he doesn't, but then he wouldn't be liberal at all. So no matter the outcome, he just doesn't seem like the right guy for the job
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EPT
