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On January 17 2013 21:38 Uranyl wrote:Show nested quote +On January 17 2013 21:11 FXOUnstable wrote:
There are two possible solutions to this, a) "X team" doesn't leak information or b) once slasher confirms leaked information he can trade his secrecy in trade for an exclusive interview to be embedded in the initial announcement linking to game spot or something equally as valuable to him.
Now, what happens if leaked information is found and "X team" refuses his request for an exclusive in the above manner, slasher will be forced to release the information early anyway.
This is the only solution I can really think of to make both parties happy, and it entirely depends on the teams choices or actions. If neither of these are done is it really still poor relationship management on slashers part? I would argue no, but the result is the same. I think an additional solution would be, if "X team" would talk to slasher and say: "We're going to sign a new player. Are you interested in an exclusive interview, to publish when we announce him offically?" Maybe not perfect, but at least an active way for the team.
That's how an embargo works "heres info dont talk till X date". I am talking about a reporter finding leaked information and how to handle it.
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So Nazgul and Alex said the same thing, just Alex said it more aggressively and took it a step further to explain exactly how it hurts him.
Obviously, if you're releasing information that hurts one of your favorable sources, they won't be your source anymore. If you're interested in keeping that favorable source, trade that information for exclusive content. If you're not interested in keeping that source anymore, release that information.
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You and your website have the power in this area to get away with such a statement, sadly.
You have a total misunderstanding about the role of media.
You think you are the owner of an information.
You think by buying a player you own the information of you buying him.
Thats not the case!
You say: "write what i want or i dont talk to you any more".
I hope that the media in this area gets powerful enough that they can say:
"You dont want to talk to us, then we dont write about your team any-more"
You abuse the power to be the owner of a Team and a Media site. Thats all.
In any real sport or politics this statement would be the end of your career.
At the moment thats not the case in esport and that gives you the chance, to rethink your statement.
If you would not have your own media site/show and no power over slasher,
if he would not need your information at all (Lets say he is a big journalist from a big new company)
Would we have this discussion?
I dont think so...
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Ok It's my second post here so i will try to be a little constructive ( and hopefully avoid the mighty Ban Hammer).
Liquid`Nazgul was damn right. I can say it better and he seem to have a good grasp on how it's work in both worlds ( and by the way it's seem normal since im basicly posting that on is home : a gaming news website ) but i must say he have, i think at least, miss a point. Agree or not with Destiny and is cast about the issue you can denied he have One point.
It's the company responsability to NOT LEAK at anytime. Plain and simple.
If she leaks... well sorry buddy but you know it's my job.
let's talk about myself a bit
I'm a dev, usually in gaming hardware company / game company and clan leader. I happen to have my best friend who work dev team in a game company. Since i have works for Logitech in the past and have lot's of theyr stuff, im usually invite to test out if my stuff work on the game and was a nearly permanent beta player for is company and many others. and you know what ? I sign an NDA (Non-Disclosure Agreement) !
with my own best friend.
We lived in the same house back then and yet we sign contract to each other.
handling sensitive data is standard stuff and process in this kind of industry. If someone on Logitech, blizzard or Ncsoft open theyr mouth they are kicked out, period.
But i know where this is coming : "we are eSport team, we can't fired our player and staff like that .." yes. true. But it doesn't mean us, the people, must do your job.
If Liquid`Nazgul hands me a usb key with the recording stats of his players hardware ( pressure, speed etc...)and theyr preference on gaming stuff, and doesnt make me sign an NDA ? dude ! this key will be on my ex boss desk in Logi before the end of the day.
Even if im huge fan of TL.
It's how it's work in real world. You care for your company i care for the one who pay my check.
If instead of going dark and cry that Slasher have found out EG have gone to Gamespot, IGN or anyother a month in advance and say "Hey we will add some player to our roster, we will let you make the announcement and have an exclusive interview with him. in exchange we want Sponsor logo here and here for than amount of hours and you must make it the 21"
Then it was an agreement. you work together. You making good journalisme ( your unbiased, you doesn't have agree on modify your view, and have full liberty to do it the way you want) , good sponsort exposure and set up a relationship who maybe will make that someday Slasher will tip ou on the "hey, i think this guy in your troops talk a bit to much care of that".
Instead of that, they bring nothing to the table and yell that a journalist have made a paper about infos, have found out himslef... wait what ? you bring nothing and yelled ? why slasher even listenning to them ?
and for all those who will say " you can't keep your people from talking". just one word : NDA.
I have left Logitech in the late 2008 as of now i can't talk about what i have done there ( and dont have ) and can't have work in a competing campany as late as june 2009. If i have broke one of these conditions, they can sue me and make me pay a HUGE fine. Welcome to real world.
So to put in a nutshell :
-Trade agreement and working relation works both way, so give something to the press if you expect something from the press ( PR 101)
-Don't be naive and bunker up yourself with NDA and paperworks, and actually remove the leaks.
Since EG made none of these thing, they have basicly no roots for theyr claims.
If you want play in big league and major média, act like big players, not like a familly small shop.
TL;DR; Look the last bit 
Ps: sorry for my bad spelling skill, was bad in my own language so in english...
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On January 17 2013 21:45 FXOUnstable wrote:Show nested quote +On January 17 2013 21:38 Uranyl wrote:On January 17 2013 21:11 FXOUnstable wrote:
There are two possible solutions to this, a) "X team" doesn't leak information or b) once slasher confirms leaked information he can trade his secrecy in trade for an exclusive interview to be embedded in the initial announcement linking to game spot or something equally as valuable to him.
Now, what happens if leaked information is found and "X team" refuses his request for an exclusive in the above manner, slasher will be forced to release the information early anyway.
This is the only solution I can really think of to make both parties happy, and it entirely depends on the teams choices or actions. If neither of these are done is it really still poor relationship management on slashers part? I would argue no, but the result is the same. I think an additional solution would be, if "X team" would talk to slasher and say: "We're going to sign a new player. Are you interested in an exclusive interview, to publish when we announce him offically?" Maybe not perfect, but at least an active way for the team. That's how an embargo works "heres info dont talk till X date". I am talking about a reporter finding leaked information and how to handle it.
I understand what you're talking about. But where is the difference between your a) and my idea in this context? Both prevent the situation of leaked informations getting published? And other than your b), where the reporter "threatens" a team, if a team offers a deal, the whole situations is more relaxed and there are less tensions between the reporter and the team.
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On January 17 2013 21:45 FXOUnstable wrote:Show nested quote +On January 17 2013 21:38 Uranyl wrote:On January 17 2013 21:11 FXOUnstable wrote:
There are two possible solutions to this, a) "X team" doesn't leak information or b) once slasher confirms leaked information he can trade his secrecy in trade for an exclusive interview to be embedded in the initial announcement linking to game spot or something equally as valuable to him.
Now, what happens if leaked information is found and "X team" refuses his request for an exclusive in the above manner, slasher will be forced to release the information early anyway.
This is the only solution I can really think of to make both parties happy, and it entirely depends on the teams choices or actions. If neither of these are done is it really still poor relationship management on slashers part? I would argue no, but the result is the same. I think an additional solution would be, if "X team" would talk to slasher and say: "We're going to sign a new player. Are you interested in an exclusive interview, to publish when we announce him offically?" Maybe not perfect, but at least an active way for the team. That's how an embargo works "heres info dont talk till X date". I am talking about a reporter finding leaked information and how to handle it.
How to handle it? Normally you run with the reporter/journalist cause he's in control when he's got leaked information. You can offer him something for keeping the story back but other then that you cant do much. You can ban him from talking to other people in your organisation but that wont help you at all cause he clearly doesn't need to speak to you to get a scoop anyway. And since in this case there aren't many journalist in the first place in esports, all teams kinda need Slasher.
Basically you cant do shit when something gets leaked, its not longer in your hands.
But I guess we are have to be happy that esports isn't that big yet cause if Slasher can make this kind of drama with these kind of small things...... i can only imagine the drama we would have if there were some good investigative journalists who dig up real shit and write people/organizations what ever in to the ground.
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Brazil1429 Posts
On January 17 2013 21:38 Uranyl wrote:Show nested quote +On January 17 2013 21:11 FXOUnstable wrote:
There are two possible solutions to this, a) "X team" doesn't leak information or b) once slasher confirms leaked information he can trade his secrecy in trade for an exclusive interview to be embedded in the initial announcement linking to game spot or something equally as valuable to him.
Now, what happens if leaked information is found and "X team" refuses his request for an exclusive in the above manner, slasher will be forced to release the information early anyway.
This is the only solution I can really think of to make both parties happy, and it entirely depends on the teams choices or actions. If neither of these are done is it really still poor relationship management on slashers part? I would argue no, but the result is the same. I think an additional solution would be, if "X team" would talk to slasher and say: "We're going to sign a new player. Are you interested in an exclusive interview, to publish when we announce him offically?" Maybe not perfect, but at least an active way for the team.
That's not how an embargo works. Teams organizing one MUST offer something in exchange, and it must be better than a 'exclusive,' because breaking the news is simply way more important than an exclusive. On the games industry for example, journalists have a very early access to games and to the dev team.
Most importantly, there's usually a professional publicist working with the journalists and making sure that everything is working,
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Pandemona
Charlie Sheens House51448 Posts
Nicely put but their is still flaws in that idea as well.
Many journalists aren't friends with (lets take football as an example) with football players themselves but their "agents" the people representing them who really dont give a flying (..) about who they play for or how they are doing they just care about how much $$$$ they can make for them.
They also know that any press is good press, so when contract negotiations are coming up they make it public what is going on to get other clubs sniffing around him and offering the money that the agent can get. The agent will be speaking to press people all the time getting awareness for his player, whether it will be saying " he isn't happy at the moment " or " he is not signing a contract yet".
Now try and switch this back into E-Sports perspective, and the way our organization is, it is not hard for say a player, to tell his friend some sort of story that is under the carpet. Now this friend could quite also be a friend of Slasher (lets just use him like everyone else is ;_; ) or even his friend might be a friend of Slasher's. It wont be long before what the player told his friend is being repeated back to Slasher. Then Slasher just goes straight out and reports it. That is what i think is happening here, many pro gamers don't really understand what they are involved with and have no sort of "rule book" so to say in terms of how they should be acting/representing themselves and what they should be talking about to others.
Now you can also add, is anything of this actually "bad", is Slasher reporting that TL is going to sign player "x" before we know about it good or bad?
Is Slasher reporting that team "y" is going to close down, before an announcement to much ?
Imo, no it is not, aslong as he has credited sources and isn't just flat out lieing to get views on his journalism.
It is down to the teams themselves to keep information more tight if they don't want it out in the open, or atleast not until they release it themselves.
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I understand the point, and it's completely realistic. But journalists in the general world spend a lot of time worried that this sort of thing will happen. A journalist who doesn't print an embarrassing story about a cabinet secretary because then that person would stop leaking to them is seen as putting their own career above good journalism. Of course it happens all the time, and the people with information (cabinet secretary, Nazgul, whoever) use it all the time to try to get favorable coverage. But journalists idolize the people who don't care and publish the embarrassing story anyway as the model of what journalism should be.
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On January 17 2013 22:07 Uranyl wrote:
I understand what you're talking about. But where is the difference between your a) and my idea in this context? Both prevent the situation of leaked informations getting published? And other than your b), where the reporter "threatens" a team, if a team offers a deal, the whole situations is more relaxed and there are less tensions between the reporter and the team.
The difference is in relationship management as Nazgul was saying, it depends on the context, reporter has the information already not saying anything is more damaging than is "threat" because the end result is the same, he is still coming to the team saying "hey lets both get something out of this" instead of one hurting the other ect.
On January 17 2013 22:20 TheSir wrote:
How to handle it? Normally you run with the reporter/journalist cause he's in control when he's got leaked information. You can offer him something for keeping the story back but other then that you cant do much. You can ban him from talking to other people in your organisation but that wont help you at all cause he clearly doesn't need to speak to you to get a scoop anyway. And since in this case there aren't many journalist in the first place in esports, all teams kinda need Slasher.
Basically you cant do shit when something gets leaked, its not longer in your hands.
But I guess we are have to be happy that esports isn't that big yet cause if Slasher can make this kind of drama with these kind of small things...... i can only imagine the drama we would have if there were some good investigative journalists who dig up real shit and write people/organizations what ever in to the ground.
Again, this context is in relationship management as Nazgul was saying. No there is nothing that the team can do, its all on the reporters shoulders, but if the team really is going to try to blacklist him then that is the only medium that can be had.
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On January 17 2013 20:13 pmastah wrote:
Kinda obvious Nazgul would take a middle of the road approach after Alex got butthurt by everyone.
Or you know.. they are different people and have different thoughts. That could be it too.
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Calgary25961 Posts
But how is this something that needs to be discussed publicly at all? If I'm not trustworthy you would make a thread "Chill is not trustworthy". You wouldn't make a thread "untrustworthy people in Esports". More than likely the thread would be a private conversation with your staff.
That's what I don't get about this entire situation. If Slasher is fine with what he's doing but people feel he isn't trustworthy, then then need to privately inform their organization and change their own actions dealing with him, not start a campaign against articles.
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On January 17 2013 22:41 Chill wrote:
But how is this something that needs to be discussed publicly at all? If I'm not trustworthy you would make a thread "Chill is not trustworthy". You wouldn't make a thread "untrustworthy people in Esports". More than likely the thread would be a private conversation with your staff.
That's what I don't get about this entire situation. If Slasher is fine with what he's doing but people feel he isn't trustworthy, then then need to privately inform their organization and change their own actions dealing with him, not start a campaign against articles.
Well Alex said that he had countless discuissions with slasher before with no results.
Maybe he thought the community would take his side and this would have an influence on slasher's attidude.
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I'm glad I got to read your thoughts on this Victor. However, I hope that you at least acknowledge that the onus is on yourself and your organization to keep information that could affect your bottom line a little closer to the chest.
I understand in certain cases doing so is a very difficult proposition but Slasher's responsibility is to Gamespot at the end of the day, so if he chooses to sit on information that he receives he's hurting his own employer in the process. I still believe it's his job and his responsibility to report the news as it comes in, despite the fact that as Alex said, he wouldn't be able to announce it as well as the organization.
I also understand it's perfectly within your right to disassociate with Slasher in the future, but I think this is just setting a bad precedent for the relationship between the organizations and the media. Again, I think this is on the organizations themselves to keep this information from leaking to the media.
Perhaps eSports teams in general need to re-evaluate their business models if so much of their total revenue comes from the page hits generated from a single news announcement (Alex implied as much during his rant).
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On January 17 2013 20:39 Uranyl wrote:
There is something I don't really understand and i would like if someone could explain it to me.
How does leaking the announcement hurts?
From my point of view, when it was leaked that snute would join liquid I was excited and hyped to see the offical announcement. I visited the liquid page more often just to check if the announcement is allready there.
Also, I can hardly imagine that someone doesn't read the offical announcement because it was leaked before.
I did this as well. The leaked information got me super eaget about the official confirmatipn.
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On January 17 2013 22:31 FXOUnstable wrote:Show nested quote +On January 17 2013 22:07 Uranyl wrote:
I understand what you're talking about. But where is the difference between your a) and my idea in this context? Both prevent the situation of leaked informations getting published? And other than your b), where the reporter "threatens" a team, if a team offers a deal, the whole situations is more relaxed and there are less tensions between the reporter and the team.
The difference is in relationship management as Nazgul was saying, it depends on the context, reporter has the information already not saying anything is more damaging than is "threat" because the end result is the same, he is still coming to the team saying "hey lets both get something out of this" instead of one hurting the other ect. Show nested quote +On January 17 2013 22:20 TheSir wrote:
How to handle it? Normally you run with the reporter/journalist cause he's in control when he's got leaked information. You can offer him something for keeping the story back but other then that you cant do much. You can ban him from talking to other people in your organisation but that wont help you at all cause he clearly doesn't need to speak to you to get a scoop anyway. And since in this case there aren't many journalist in the first place in esports, all teams kinda need Slasher.
Basically you cant do shit when something gets leaked, its not longer in your hands.
But I guess we are have to be happy that esports isn't that big yet cause if Slasher can make this kind of drama with these kind of small things...... i can only imagine the drama we would have if there were some good investigative journalists who dig up real shit and write people/organizations what ever in to the ground.
Again, this context is in relationship management as Nazgul was saying. No there is nothing that the team can do, its all on the reporters shoulders, but if the team really is going to try to blacklist him then that is the only medium that can be had.
Don't forget that's not just in the reporters interest to have a good relationship with a team, but also the other way around.
And the teams are the one how create the information and decide how to handle it. The first move is theirs.
Not that I have any idea what the teams can really do or not.
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I don't get why some people are even surprised by this. This move was basically forced by Slasher. Relationships between press and industry "in the real world" work based on tension between the 2, and now that Slasher wants to put on the big boy pants, obviously teams will start too. They don't owe him anything. He's legally free to write about whatever information he manages to find, so are the teams to just stop talking to him completely.
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So, you're admitting the leak came from TL?
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PC Gamer & ESPN have informed on this situation well, methinks. Cooler heads have prevailed.
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EPT
