EPTJournalism and Relationships - Page 7
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ACrow
Germany6583 Posts
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dvorakftw
681 Posts
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Takkara
United States2503 Posts
On January 18 2013 04:17 dvorakftw wrote: Nazgul stops one step short. Yes Slasher can hurt his business relationship by leaking information teams want to keep but if you then cut off Slasher you can limit your players' exposure and the public's opinion of the team. 'Cutting your nose off to spite your face' is the common expression. I think this is what Kennigit has been saying on Reddit the past day or so. Both sides need to make a cost:benefit analysis and decide what level of transparency and cooperation is right for them. There are benefits/costs to reporting leaks and there are benefits/costs to shutting out prominent members of the press. I like what many have said that attempting to organize a public blackballing of Slasher is probably one step beyond what the public is comfortable with. No one at Liquid has hinted at doing this, but there were specters of it in the ITG conversation, and I think that makes people (at least it makes me) squeamish. | ||
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Bumblebee
3237 Posts
In a scene as young as this, a lot of the stuff going will and, due to the current state, has to be done out of pure respect for other people's things. I'm not saying what Slasher did is disrespectful. We let him do his job and we try to do ours. That's how it is. There's no reason to blame Slasher. | ||
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farvacola
United States18821 Posts
On January 18 2013 04:51 Bumblebee wrote: It's a lot more than just the people we decide to tell. Let's look at it with the example of Snute. Snute is one of the strongest foreign players out there and inevitably a lot of teams will be in the hunt for him and bidding on him. These teams will be informed that they weren't chosen and who overbid them. I don't believe we, as one of the teams, are in a position to make demands from these people about contracts and stuff. We can -- which we of course do -- ask them nicely to respect our signing and let us have our own announcements. We tell our players the same thing, even when they get the hands on this information. In a scene as young as this, a lot of the stuff going will and, due to the current state, has to be done out of pure respect for other people's things. I'm not saying what Slasher did is disrespectful. We let him do his job and we try to do ours. That's how it is. There's no reason to blame Slasher. Out of curiosity, because I really have no idea, who is doing the informing in the emboldened portion? I guess I'm simply curious as to why player negotiations are as open as they seem to be, and whether or not standards of communication/conduct in regards to player signings could be improved upon. | ||
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Myt
Germany318 Posts
On January 18 2013 04:22 Takkara wrote: I think this is what Kennigit has been saying on Reddit the past day or so. Both sides need to make a cost:benefit analysis and decide what level of transparency and cooperation is right for them. There are benefits/costs to reporting leaks and there are benefits/costs to shutting out prominent members of the press. I like what many have said that attempting to organize a public blackballing of Slasher is probably one step beyond what the public is comfortable with. No one at Liquid has hinted at doing this, but there were specters of it in the ITG conversation, and I think that makes people (at least it makes me) squeamish. IMO you are on the right path with this. But there is another solution as blackballing independent media, just include them in your marketing strategies! That is what "real sportorganisations" do allready as they are dependent on coverage from big media outlets. At the moment especially the big teams may not need independent media to get their message out as the community is relativ small and there are other ways, for example comunity sites like TL or Reddit. But I don't think it would be good for teams to try to shut down independent journalists like Slasher. They may be able to do it in this case but when things really get bigger and therefore more interessting for many more professional mediaoutlets there will be no way to control them. | ||
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Brindled
United States508 Posts
Nazgul wasn't upset at Slasher at all, despite what Garfield eluded to. I am glad to see cooler heads prevailing. | ||
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divito
Canada1213 Posts
If you're going to argue that you want to keep an open and fluid organization, you might have to get NDAs signed with partners (and even your own staff/players), and outside sources in whatever deals, promotions or moves you're making, if you're truly committed to being the ones orchestrating and announcing the information. For someone as business-savvy as Alex, I'm surprised a lot of this has taken place. I'm sure we can definitely expect some changes in the future. (And NDAs aren't all that complicated for people suggestion such a notion.) | ||
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Bumblebee
3237 Posts
On January 18 2013 04:54 farvacola wrote: Out of curiosity, because I really have no idea, who is doing the informing in the emboldened portion? I guess I'm simply curious as to why player negotiations are as open as they seem to be, and whether or not standards of communication/conduct in regards to player signings could be improved upon. Usually it just comes naturally, I think. I'm not the one who sits with the negotiation itself; that's Nazgul. I don't think player negotations are directly open and overbid is also the wrong word to use since people can choose a lesser offer in money if there are other benefits obviously. It seems pretty natural to me that it's a process that has to be somewhat open between the parts involved. People go back and forth with offers and the player uses an offer to notch up the other offer even more, etc. Also it's only natural for the teams to find out who they're up against. | ||
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Dfgj
Singapore5922 Posts
On January 18 2013 02:16 DarkLordOlli wrote: Because that would make Slasher lose his credibility as a journalist. Right now if Slasher releases something, you can be pretty sure it's accurate because he's not affiliated with any team. The second he is, people will start doubting whether or not he's just promoting a team when he releases or purposely doesn't release something. I know that, and I appreciate that there are independent people in the scene. I meant that if teams/businesses expect co-operation, and get flustered when independent people do their own jobs without regard for said team, why not give them an actual incentive? Hell, I'd rather someone be paid to do what EG wants than do it because EG told them to. | ||
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farvacola
United States18821 Posts
On January 18 2013 05:22 Bumblebee wrote: Usually it just comes naturally, I think. I'm not the one who sits with the negotiation itself; that's Nazgul. I don't think player negotations are directly open and overbid is also the wrong word to use since people can choose a lesser offer in money if there are other benefits obviously. It seems pretty natural to me that it's a process that has to be somewhat open between the parts involved. People go back and forth with offers and the player uses an offer to notch up the other offer even more, etc. Also it's only natural for the teams to find out who they're up against. Yes, I suppose that makes sense. I guess teams find themselves between a rock and a hard place; on one hand, their solvency basically hinges on monetized exposure, and on the other, attempts at controlling that exposure can negatively impact that very thing. 'Tis a tricky situation to be sure. | ||
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Daigoro
Germany251 Posts
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NanashiStarCraft
Germany48 Posts
On January 17 2013 22:02 skeldark wrote: You and your website have the power in this area to get away with such a statement, sadly. You have a total misunderstanding about the role of media. You think you are the owner of an information. You think by buying a player you own the information of you buying him. Thats not the case! You say: "write what i want or i dont talk to you any more". I hope that the media in this area gets powerful enough that they can say: "You dont want to talk to us, then we dont write about your team any-more" You abuse the power to be the owner of a Team and a Media site. Thats all. In any real sport or politics this statement would be the end of your career. At the moment thats not the case in esport and that gives you the chance, to rethink your statement. If you would not have your own media site/show and no power over slasher, if he would not need your information at all (Lets say he is a big journalist from a big new company) Would we have this discussion? I dont think so... This! User was warned for this post | ||
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mrtomjones
Canada4020 Posts
On January 18 2013 04:57 Myt wrote: IMO you are on the right path with this. But there is another solution as blackballing independent media, just include them in your marketing strategies! That is what "real sportorganisations" do allready as they are dependent on coverage from big media outlets. At the moment especially the big teams may not need independent media to get their message out as the community is relativ small and there are other ways, for example comunity sites like TL or Reddit. But I don't think it would be good for teams to try to shut down independent journalists like Slasher. They may be able to do it in this case but when things really get bigger and therefore more interessting for many more professional mediaoutlets there will be no way to control them. The thing is ESPN or TSN can hype something and they do it damn well. They get people excited and usually have well written articles and analysis. Slasher does not do it as well as EG or TL can. I think they could use him in some way but the teams in SC2 are better equipped to hype than one person on his own who doesn't seem to want to do analysis of these things. | ||
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Plansix
United States60190 Posts
Post was garbage and did not understand the point of Naz'Gul's statement at all. If this was a "real sport", like the post said, and a reporter was disrupting a teams media announcments, they would just deny him access and black list that reporter. Its very common, these sorts of open discussions on the subject are not. | ||
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Myt
Germany318 Posts
On January 18 2013 06:07 mrtomjones wrote: The thing is ESPN or TSN can hype something and they do it damn well. They get people excited and usually have well written articles and analysis. Slasher does not do it as well as EG or TL can. I think they could use him in some way but the teams in SC2 are better equipped to hype than one person on his own who doesn't seem to want to do analysis of these things. You are right as long as we are talking about slasher and player announcements. Slasher may not be great or even interested in analysis but on the other side, it is also about credibility and for that independent journalism is crucial. And for the hype part - that is not the job for media itself, hype has always to be created by the teams. They need just to find different ways to do so and adapt to a new situation. For that I'm with Nazgul, this will change the relationship from teamofficials to jounalists but I don't think this is nessessary a bad thing for any side as long as both sides know how to deal with another. This hole theme is btw also a question for the future of TL itself. They have to decide in which direction the site will move, I'm pretty sure in a bigger environment TL will lose significance if they not put up more investigative news which would be sad, because I don't think there would be anybody better equipped to not only report the news but also analyse it and put in in the right perspective. | ||
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sLideSC2
United States225 Posts
I'm not saying Slasher is a bad guy for doing this, but I think an embargo for certain news would definitely help things. I don't however think that teams should band together and completely ban talking to Slasher, that statement seemed more emotionally driven than anything else. I don't think another debate should be necessary, all the points have already been laid out I think we just have a disagreement. I think you're all doing a great job. | ||
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StarStruck
25339 Posts
On January 18 2013 06:58 sLideSC2 wrote: Thank you for writing this, and I agree with everything you said. I'm going to be the outlier here, and agree with Alex Garfield almost completely. There is one main, giant point that separates e-sports from real sports, that I think a lot of people miss. E-sport teams make 99% of their revenue from marketing. Sports teams don't make nearly that percentage. When a journalist breaks an announcement over a new signing, it doesn't hurt the sports team. However, it greatly hurts the E-sport teams in most cases. In the case of Stephano, it created a hype train that for sure helped EG, it was almost a game trying to figure out when EG themselves would release the news. In the case of Snute and especially Jaedong, it hurt and almost killed the hype. It's bad for the players, and it's bad for the teams. I'm not saying Slasher is a bad guy for doing this, but I think an embargo for certain news would definitely help things. I don't however think that teams should band together and completely ban talking to Slasher, that statement seemed more emotionally driven than anything else. I don't think another debate should be necessary, all the points have already been laid out I think we just have a disagreement. I think you're all doing a great job. Don't throw around numbers. You used a gross exaggeration to try and make a point and there is still lots of marketing/advertising/endorsement potential outside of announcing a freaking player. I said it many times in other threads. You want to beat everyone else to the punch you have those pressers ready to go from the signing. You don't wait. Let the rumor wheel go nuts during the process because that way it's all rumor. No need for tunnel vision. | ||
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figq
12519 Posts
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snively
United States1159 Posts
On January 17 2013 19:40 iKill wrote: Thank you for bringing a more level-headed explanation to the table than our dear (and slightly angry) friend, Mr. Garfield. is this a joke. nazgul's name is victor goossens. (goosens? i dont know how to spell it) i think ur thinking of the CEO of evil geniuses whose name is alex garfield. thats kind of embarassing. edit: ok i did it | ||
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