EPTJournalism and Relationships - Page 5
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AshenCZ
Czech Republic46 Posts
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Olli
Austria24418 Posts
On January 18 2013 01:15 AshenCZ wrote: Then again, as Destiny pointed out, if something leaks, it is the TEAM's fault, not Slasher's for finding out and doing his job... That is correct. Information should be protected, especially the second money is involved. I think what Nazgul is arguing is that Slasher (or other media agents, but Slasher is mentioned) want to both cooperate with teams on certain production and then minutes later actively search for information to release and thereby hurting the these teams. I mean, the last part is his job as a journalist and it's absolutely alright but it only seems reasonable to me if teams will stop cooperating with him in return, in order to maybe stop him from actively looking for this information. It's a pretty hot topic, basically Slasher is doing nothing but his job and that's perfectly fine. What is NOT his job but just an added bonus is cooperating with teams. And that's something these teams can stop any second to maybe put pressure on him. | ||
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Plansix
United States60190 Posts
On January 18 2013 01:15 AshenCZ wrote: Then again, as Destiny pointed out, if something leaks, it is the TEAM's fault, not Slasher's for finding out and doing his job... As no one is saying it is Slashers fault. No one at all. They are only saying that him leaking the information early cuts into their bottom line, which I don’t think a lot of people really thought about this discussion. The team owners are saying the ideal relationship would be if Slasher tried to work with them a little so everyone got exposure. Slasher doesn’t have to work with them, but the teams will then need to take efforts to protect themselves better, which means people may be punished(loss of job, less pay) in the future for leaking stories to Slasher if someone finds out they did. There is no right or wrong, it is just a very open discussion about the relationship the teams have to the press. Personally, I would like to see the teams and press work better on this issue. Why? Because I think it’s a stupid thing to fight over and I enjoy the coverage that Slasher and Gamespot provide. I don’t want the teams to lose on potential income they need and I want the quality coverage we have gotten to date. I don’t want them to have a combative relationship over a minor issue of leaking signings a couple days early. | ||
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Dfgj
Singapore5922 Posts
On January 18 2013 01:50 Plansix wrote: The team owners are saying the ideal relationship would be if Slasher tried to work for them a little so everyone got exposure. Why not just pay the guy to follow their marketing goals? Seems simpler to me. | ||
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Olli
Austria24418 Posts
On January 18 2013 02:11 Dfgj wrote: Why not just pay the guy to follow their marketing goals? Seems simpler to me. Because that would make Slasher lose his credibility as a journalist. Right now if Slasher releases something, you can be pretty sure it's accurate because he's not affiliated with any team. The second he is, people will start doubting whether or not he's just promoting a team when he releases or purposely doesn't release something. | ||
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Bumblebee
3237 Posts
An example is that I had personally informed EG, IPL and IEM about Snute prior to the announcement since if I want Snute to play in SC2L or IPTL, I need to do that. Snute also came from another team and there were other bidders who also knew of our situation. There's just too many people who you don't have power over or control of. | ||
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nath
United States1788 Posts
User was warned for this post | ||
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Olli
Austria24418 Posts
On January 18 2013 02:36 nath wrote: Slasher is your typical shmuck, you'd think his name is Shlomo and he sells diamonds in Brooklyn. His personality just, makes sense. Of course he wouldn't give a shit about turning around and leaking stories, as well as hyping up drama, for his own personal benefit. You just described every journalist. Just in a negative way and quite offensive against Jewish people. | ||
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eight.BiT
United States240 Posts
You can either only report what the teams says is OKAY to report at all times, or they will cut every journalist out who prints something they don't like. Got it. ESPORTS reporting will become a giant circle jerk between the teams and the journalists who just want to be in the "scene." | ||
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Noobity
United States871 Posts
On January 18 2013 00:50 Martijn wrote: You lost me with the metaphor to be honest, but I get the point. Argument being I believe that, regardless of where the information comes from, the team should have control over it or else they should feel free to punish the person reporting on it. Which I simply can't agree on. Yeah, obviously TL or EG or team X could make Slashers or any reporters job a lot harder if they wanted to. Aside from the Kafkaesque environment that turns esports in, that's certainly bad business for the team as well though Even if we take ethics and morality out of the discussion (which I think is pretty ridiculous because of the potential consequences), yeah a team can blackball a reporter, but the team benefits from that talent and exposure from that reporter. Arguing it's ok to cut a reporter off because you're unhappy with them doing their job is arguing it's ok to hurt both your team and the reporter because of personal conflicts. Yeah it's a little ridiculous a metaphor. Certainly works in my head. I don't see it so much as punishment though, more like.. "not giving exceptional treatment towards". Slasher can do his job the way he's been doing it, getting his information from third parties if necessary, and first hand if the opportunity/ability arises. Nazgul and TL have no obligation to provide him with any information at all, and in fact if they have information to give it is directly in their best interest to decide who they give that information to. It's entirely possible I'm missing your point though, this isn't something I have a high level of understanding over. | ||
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Plansix
United States60190 Posts
On January 18 2013 02:40 eight.BiT wrote: Everyone welcome our new standard for ESPORTS reporting: You can either only report what the teams says is OKAY to report at all times, or they will cut every journalist out who prints something they don't like. Got it. ESPORTS reporting will become a giant circle jerk between the teams and the journalists who just want to be in the "scene." That is all reporting, period, not just Esports. Welcome to the real world, where people look out for themselves and don't just turn the other cheek saying "Well that sucked and cost me money, but its ok because s/he is a reporter and the press should be free. I should invite them over to my next team meeting." | ||
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eight.BiT
United States240 Posts
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Martijn
Netherlands1219 Posts
On January 18 2013 02:24 Bumblebee wrote: No, it is not the team's fault that it leaks. It's something we're not in control over. There are too many people that needs to be involved in player transfers and stuff alike for the team to have control over the situation -- nor do they really control the people who knows. Things such as the team the player comes from, the other bidding teams and tournaments who need to be informed ahead of time in order to secure spots/book/pay for things. An example is that I had personally informed EG, IPL and IEM about Snute prior to the announcement since if I want Snute to play in SC2L or IPTL, I need to do that. Snute also came from another team and there were other bidders who also knew of our situation. There's just too many people who you don't have power over or control of. Robin if you can't trust the people you're telling, you should not be telling them or have them sign something that says they can't. I like knowing about which player moves where beforehand, it's nice being in the know. That's why I wouldn't leak something because if I did leak something I would expect there to be consequences. With a post like this you're indirectly implying people should feel it's perfectly ok to leak things and there will be 0 consequences because it's outside of your control. Obviously this is very dangerous. Most of us don't leak things because we know it's not ok. Fault lies with the people leaking the information as they can't be trusted. So expose and blackball those people, not journalist doing their job. Of course in some cases morality might outweigh someone's responsibility to keep privileged information privileged, but I'm going to just assume no one is going to bring that up seeming that's a whole different discussion. | ||
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Plansix
United States60190 Posts
On January 18 2013 02:49 eight.BiT wrote: This whole idea of Slasher choosing between being inside an organization like TL or to be "banned" and only use 3rd party sources seems so childish of the teams. Do you think it was Nazgul himself that told Slasher about Snute? Just like Bumblebee the fucking TL staff member said too many people had to be informed. I think Slasher should tell the teams to FUCK OFF and use the sources he has BEEN using for the leaks. I would say that is a very poor way to have a professional relationship, he has to deal with these teams. The teams could start requesting that events and groups they deal with limit all information people they know will not leak it to Slasher. They could deny him interviews and provide leaks to other reporters to undercut him. Professional relationships are two way streets, Slasher is not the only one that can say "FUCK YOU". | ||
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eight.BiT
United States240 Posts
On January 18 2013 02:55 Plansix wrote: I would say that is a very poor way to have a professional relationship, he has to deal with these teams. The teams could start requesting that events and groups they deal with limit all information people they know will not leak it to Slasher. They could deny him interviews and provide leaks to other reporters to undercut him. Professional relationships are two way streets, Slasher is not the only one that can say "FUCK YOU". Don't you think they might have said something already to those people about not leaking? Just because they say "Hey guys, don't leak this to Slasher." doesn't change a thing. The people who want to give the info to outside sources will continue to do so just like any industry. EDIT: And I wouldn't say missing a few Liquid or EG interviews would be the end of the world with their performances the alst 2 years, but I digress. | ||
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Olli
Austria24418 Posts
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Zealos
United Kingdom3576 Posts
On January 18 2013 02:53 Martijn wrote: Robin if you can't trust the people you're telling you should not be telling them or have them sign something that says they can't. I like knowing about which player moves where beforehand, it's great being in the know. That's why I wouldn't leak something because if I did leak something I would expect there to be consequences. You're indirectly implying people should feel it's perfectly ok to leak things and there will be 0 consequences because it's outside of your control. Obviously this is very dangerous. Most of us don't leak things because we know it's not ok. Fault lies with he people leaking as they can't be trusted. So expose and blackball those people, not journalist doing their job. Written on my cell, promise to proof read later. So either he can't have Snute playing in any of these leagues in order to make an announcement? You're being completely unrealistic. Do you honestly expect him to be able to get /everyone/ who knows about it to sign agreements not to spill any info? What if they refuse? | ||
Heyoka
Katowice25012 Posts
On January 18 2013 01:15 AshenCZ wrote: Then again, as Destiny pointed out, if something leaks, it is the TEAM's fault, not Slasher's for finding out and doing his job... I understand how people come to this conclusion because it seems like a logical way to look at it, but it's completely untrue. The esports world is very small, if team management are talking to one guy or another it's obvious to a ton of people who have no involvement in the transaction. Negotiations can take forever and during these any team who has expressed interest but been turned down will figure out by process of elimination where they are going, the team has no control over a ton of people who know outside their organization. | ||
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eight.BiT
United States240 Posts
On January 18 2013 03:07 Zealos wrote: So either he can't have Snute playing in any of these leagues in order to make an announcement? You're being completely unrealistic. Do you honestly expect him to be able to get /everyone/ who knows about it to sign agreements not to spill any info? What if they refuse? Let me translate for you. The point was they are stupid for thinking if they info crossed so many hands that it wouldn't get leaked. | ||
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eight.BiT
United States240 Posts
On January 18 2013 03:09 heyoka wrote: I think this is the most clear cut way to look at it. I don't know how this turned into an ethics debate or something over freedom of press, because that isn't the issue at hand. Journalists needs to do their job and the teams need to do theirs, occasionally these two things will conflict and the resolution isn't easy. The journalists need to be aware, however, that the way they choose to do it carry with them the risk of negatively impacting their ability to do the same things in the future. This is how the world works. I understand how people come to this conclusion because it seems like a logical way to look at it, but it's completely untrue. The esports world is very small, if team management are talking to one guy or another it's obvious to a ton of people who have no involvement in the transaction. Negotiations can take forever and during these any team who has expressed interest but been turned down will figure out by process of elimination where they are going, the team has no control over a ton of people who know outside their organization. So therefore if so many people know anyway, why the Slasher witch hunt? Someone else would have just reported it. | ||
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