Journalism and Relationships - Page 8

On January 18 2013 07:37 snively wrote:


is this a joke. nazgul's name is victor goossens. (goosens? i dont know how to spell it)
i think ur thinking of the CEO of evil geniuses, whose name is alex garfield.

thats kind of embarassing.

On January 17 2013 22:41 Chill wrote:
But how is this something that needs to be discussed publicly at all? If I'm not trustworthy you would make a thread "Chill is not trustworthy". You wouldn't make a thread "untrustworthy people in Esports". More than likely the thread would be a private conversation with your staff.

That's what I don't get about this entire situation. If Slasher is fine with what he's doing but people feel he isn't trustworthy, then then need to privately inform their organization and change their own actions dealing with him, not start a campaign against articles.

On January 18 2013 07:39 SKC wrote:


Remove that comma and everything makes sense.

On January 18 2013 08:50 -_- wrote:
Boycotting Slasher won't work. He didn't get the information from the teams, so if they boycott him he'll still get his information. And since they're boycotting him, he won't hesitate to post something that very may well be harmful to that team.

On January 18 2013 08:42 Sunfish wrote:
I agree almost 100% with Nazgul, and yet, as a member of Evil Geniuses, this post is incredibly frustrating for me. Here's why.

Last night, the other staff members and I had a Skype session to discuss the fallout from this incident and give our opinions to Colin (LectR, on these forums), our marketing director/awesome guru. What Nazgul wrote here is essentially the same point all of us made: 1) Alex probably shouldn't have had that conversation on the show, 2) Slasher didn't commit any ethical infractions, 3) Because his actions have been bad for our business, we reserve the right to refuse him access to our players.

And yet, whenever any of us have voiced this very reasonable opinion on these forums, Facebook, the PC Gamer article, or /r/starcraft, the proverbial or literal downvotes come out en masse. Then Nazgul posts this, gets hailed as the oracular voice of reason, and makes it to the top of /r/starcraft. I realize there's always been a double standard between EG and Liquid -- Liquid's players do poorly, "oh, he'll do better soon" vs. EG's players do poorly "scrub! cursed!" -- and when it comes to Slasher vs. EG, there's a very appealing David vs. Golaith story. But can you possibly comprehend how soul-crushingly frustrating this is?

Imagine if everything you did, no matter how good it is, gets shit on just because you work for a particular organization. Way too often, I feel personally attacked by a community that I was once proud to call myself apart of. A few months ago, I put a huge amount of energy into writing a a social history of StarCraft, something no one else, to my knowledge, has even attempted (my "day job" is as an art history student, and I wanted to try applying an art historical/academic methodology to StarCraft).

I'm very proud of that article and I legitimately think it was good, and yet, when I posted it on Reddit, the only upvotes I got were from other EG staff members and my IRL friends, which were instantly drowned by a deluge of downvotes. They came out so fast that there's no way the downvoters could have possibly read my article. The only reason for the negative reception, then, is that the article was associated with EG. This is why I stopped writing what I think could have been a very provocative and intellectual stimulating series: the emotional toll of seeing your hard work vilified not because it was bad (if this was the case, I'd be absolutely fine with a negative reception -- I want to know if someone legitimately doesn't like my writing. I'm always learning; I want feedback), but merely because the article was hosted on evilgeniuses.net. Hell, if I had posted it TL and took the "EG Writer" out of my profile, it might have even been a featured blog. Even when I posted a comment as simple as "Actually, we all signed NDAs, so please stop calling EG idiotic for not requiring NDAs," I got downvoted to hell. There is no opinion to disagree with there; it's just a fact, and yet that doesn't even matter to the denizens of /r/starcraft.

Nearly everyone who writes for EG is either a college student or a working young adult. With the exception of a handful of guys, none of us do this full time. Even those of us who get a modest stipend do this for one simple reason: we love eSports. But why does that have to be so hard?

Edit: Added a link to the article in question.
Edit 2: I posted this (wiht some minor edits) on reddit.. The reaction? As if I needed any other proof...

On January 18 2013 04:51 Bumblebee wrote:
It's a lot more than just the people we decide to tell. Let's look at it with the example of Snute. Snute is one of the strongest foreign players out there and inevitably a lot of teams will be in the hunt for him and bidding on him. These teams will be informed that they weren't chosen and who overbid them. I don't believe we, as one of the teams, are in a position to make demands from these people about contracts and stuff. We can -- which we of course do -- ask them nicely to respect our signing and let us have our own announcements. We tell our players the same thing, even when they get the hands on this information.

In a scene as young as this, a lot of the stuff going will and, due to the current state, has to be done out of pure respect for other people's things. I'm not saying what Slasher did is disrespectful. We let him do his job and we try to do ours. That's how it is. There's no reason to blame Slasher.

On January 18 2013 08:42 Sunfish wrote:
I agree almost 100% with Nazgul, and yet, as a member of Evil Geniuses, this post is incredibly frustrating for me. Here's why.

Last night, the other staff members and I had a Skype session to discuss the fallout from this incident and give our opinions to Colin (LectR, on these forums), our marketing director/awesome guru. What Nazgul wrote here is essentially the same point all of us made: 1) Alex probably shouldn't have had that conversation on the show, 2) Slasher didn't commit any ethical infractions, 3) Because his actions have been bad for our business, we reserve the right to refuse him access to our players.

And yet, whenever any of us have voiced this very reasonable opinion on these forums, Facebook, the PC Gamer article, or /r/starcraft, the proverbial or literal downvotes come out en masse. Then Nazgul posts this, gets hailed as the oracular voice of reason, and makes it to the top of /r/starcraft. I realize there's always been a double standard between EG and Liquid -- Liquid's players do poorly, "oh, he'll do better soon" vs. EG's players do poorly "scrub! cursed!" -- and when it comes to Slasher vs. EG, there's a very appealing David vs. Golaith story. But can you possibly comprehend how soul-crushingly frustrating this is?

Imagine if everything you did, no matter how good it is, gets shit on just because you work for a particular organization. Way too often, I feel personally attacked by a community that I was once proud to call myself apart of. A few months ago, I put a huge amount of energy into writing a a social history of StarCraft, something no one else, to my knowledge, has even attempted (my "day job" is as an art history student, and I wanted to try applying an art historical/academic methodology to StarCraft).

I'm very proud of that article and I legitimately think it was good, and yet, when I posted it on Reddit, the only upvotes I got were from other EG staff members and my IRL friends, which were instantly drowned by a deluge of downvotes. They came out so fast that there's no way the downvoters could have possibly read my article. The only reason for the negative reception, then, is that the article was associated with EG. This is why I stopped writing what I think could have been a very provocative and intellectual stimulating series: the emotional toll of seeing your hard work vilified not because it was bad (if this was the case, I'd be absolutely fine with a negative reception -- I want to know if someone legitimately doesn't like my writing. I'm always learning; I want feedback), but merely because the article was hosted on evilgeniuses.net. Hell, if I had posted it TL and took the "EG Writer" out of my profile, it might have even been a featured blog. Even when I posted a comment as simple as "Actually, we all signed NDAs, so please stop calling EG idiotic for not requiring NDAs," I got downvoted to hell. There is no opinion to disagree with there; it's just a fact, and yet that doesn't even matter to the denizens of /r/starcraft.

Nearly everyone who writes for EG is either a college student or a working young adult. With the exception of a handful of guys, none of us do this full time. Even those of us who get a modest stipend do this for one simple reason: we love eSports. But why does that have to be so hard?

Edit: Added a link to the article in question.
Edit 2: I posted this (wiht some minor edits) on reddit.. The reaction? As if I needed any other proof...

On January 18 2013 09:50 Brett wrote:
As negotiations get under way, TL offers $10, EG offers $5, Axiom offers $9 and a lollipop, and Azubu offers $3. Snute, by virtue of his NDA will go to the other teams and say "I've been offered $10" or "I've been offered $9 and a lollipop". Teams will evaluate those offers, and some teams will drop out. There is no need for him to go to EG, Axiom and Azubu and say "TL is giving me $10". This restricts who has what information to mere speculation, which is able to be significantly misleading.

On January 18 2013 08:42 Sunfish wrote:
I agree almost 100% with Nazgul, and yet, as a member of Evil Geniuses, this post is incredibly frustrating for me. Here's why.

Last night, the other staff members and I had a Skype session to discuss the fallout from this incident and give our opinions to Colin (LectR, on these forums), our marketing director/awesome guru. What Nazgul wrote here is essentially the same point all of us made: 1) Alex probably shouldn't have had that conversation on the show, 2) Slasher didn't commit any ethical infractions, 3) Because his actions have been bad for our business, we reserve the right to refuse him access to our players.

And yet, whenever any of us have voiced this very reasonable opinion on these forums, Facebook, the PC Gamer article, or /r/starcraft, the proverbial or literal downvotes come out en masse. Then Nazgul posts this, gets hailed as the oracular voice of reason, and makes it to the top of /r/starcraft. I realize there's always been a double standard between EG and Liquid -- Liquid's players do poorly, "oh, he'll do better soon" vs. EG's players do poorly "scrub! cursed!" -- and when it comes to Slasher vs. EG, there's a very appealing David vs. Golaith story. But can you possibly comprehend how soul-crushingly frustrating this is?

Imagine if everything you did, no matter how good it is, gets shit on just because you work for a particular organization. Way too often, I feel personally attacked by a community that I was once proud to call myself apart of. A few months ago, I put a huge amount of energy into writing a a social history of StarCraft, something no one else, to my knowledge, has even attempted (my "day job" is as an art history student, and I wanted to try applying an art historical/academic methodology to StarCraft).

I'm very proud of that article and I legitimately think it was good, and yet, when I posted it on Reddit, the only upvotes I got were from other EG staff members and my IRL friends, which were instantly drowned by a deluge of downvotes. They came out so fast that there's no way the downvoters could have possibly read my article. The only reason for the negative reception, then, is that the article was associated with EG. This is why I stopped writing what I think could have been a very provocative and intellectual stimulating series: the emotional toll of seeing your hard work vilified not because it was bad (if this was the case, I'd be absolutely fine with a negative reception -- I want to know if someone legitimately doesn't like my writing. I'm always learning; I want feedback), but merely because the article was hosted on evilgeniuses.net. Hell, if I had posted it TL and took the "EG Writer" out of my profile, it might have even been a featured blog. Even when I posted a comment as simple as "Actually, we all signed NDAs, so please stop calling EG idiotic for not requiring NDAs," I got downvoted to hell. There is no opinion to disagree with there; it's just a fact, and yet that doesn't even matter to the denizens of /r/starcraft.

Nearly everyone who writes for EG is either a college student or a working young adult. With the exception of a handful of guys, none of us do this full time. Even those of us who get a modest stipend do this for one simple reason: we love eSports. But why does that have to be so hard?

Edit: Added a link to the article in question.
Edit 2: I posted this (wiht some minor edits) on reddit.. The reaction? As if I needed any other proof...

On January 18 2013 11:02 MountainDewJunkie wrote:
What's stupid is this sentiment that news and information should be controlled, and specifically there is sentiment to suppress any bad news as well. It's absurd because anyone with a dollar invested only wants to make the scene grow so they can keep raking in the dough, such that they will air out grievances publicly, but because they can't see the forest through the trees, they don't quite calculate when they themselves have blown a situation out of standard proportion. In a way, damage control itself is damaging. Point a finger and someone will rightfully stick a mirror in your path.

Also Slasher is a brave man for even talking to that panel of hacks. ITG is a horrendously skewed agenda-based program with no real checks. Another reckless corporate program that's leading (foreign) esports to its current state of this kind of stupid drama being more entertaining than actual gameplay itself. Ultimately, the condoning fans really get what they deserve. This is the scene we have created.

And in all honesty, to blame a reporter for breaking something a team leaked, or told to too many people who then told so-and-so who then etc. etc., is quite... amusing. Please plug your holes.

EDIT: A good time to say this: This shit is "killing esports"

On January 18 2013 08:42 Sunfish wrote:
I agree almost 100% with Nazgul, and yet, as a member of Evil Geniuses, this post is incredibly frustrating for me. Here's why.

Last night, the other staff members and I had a Skype session to discuss the fallout from this incident and give our opinions to Colin (LectR, on these forums), our marketing director/awesome guru. What Nazgul wrote here is essentially the same point all of us made: 1) Alex probably shouldn't have had that conversation on the show, 2) Slasher didn't commit any ethical infractions, 3) Because his actions have been bad for our business, we reserve the right to refuse him access to our players.

And yet, whenever any of us have voiced this very reasonable opinion on these forums, Facebook, the PC Gamer article, or /r/starcraft, the proverbial or literal downvotes come out en masse. Then Nazgul posts this, gets hailed as the oracular voice of reason, and makes it to the top of /r/starcraft. I realize there's always been a double standard between EG and Liquid -- Liquid's players do poorly, "oh, he'll do better soon" vs. EG's players do poorly "scrub! cursed!" -- and when it comes to Slasher vs. EG, there's a very appealing David vs. Golaith story. But can you possibly comprehend how soul-crushingly frustrating this is?

Imagine if everything you did, no matter how good it is, gets shit on just because you work for a particular organization. Way too often, I feel personally attacked by a community that I was once proud to call myself apart of. A few months ago, I put a huge amount of energy into writing a a social history of StarCraft, something no one else, to my knowledge, has even attempted (my "day job" is as an art history student, and I wanted to try applying an art historical/academic methodology to StarCraft).

I'm very proud of that article and I legitimately think it was good, and yet, when I posted it on Reddit, the only upvotes I got were from other EG staff members and my IRL friends, which were instantly drowned by a deluge of downvotes. They came out so fast that there's no way the downvoters could have possibly read my article. The only reason for the negative reception, then, is that the article was associated with EG. This is why I stopped writing what I think could have been a very provocative and intellectual stimulating series: the emotional toll of seeing your hard work vilified not because it was bad (if this was the case, I'd be absolutely fine with a negative reception -- I want to know if someone legitimately doesn't like my writing. I'm always learning; I want feedback), but merely because the article was hosted on evilgeniuses.net. Hell, if I had posted it TL and took the "EG Writer" out of my profile, it might have even been a featured blog. Even when I posted a comment as simple as "Actually, we all signed NDAs, so please stop calling EG idiotic for not requiring NDAs," I got downvoted to hell. There is no opinion to disagree with there; it's just a fact, and yet that doesn't even matter to the denizens of /r/starcraft.

Nearly everyone who writes for EG is either a college student or a working young adult. With the exception of a handful of guys, none of us do this full time. Even those of us who get a modest stipend do this for one simple reason: we love eSports. But why does that have to be so hard?

Edit: Added a link to the article in question.
Edit 2: I posted this (wiht some minor edits) on reddit.. The reaction? As if I needed any other proof...