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On January 18 2013 12:50 Plansix wrote:
I head a major streaming site has stopped paying their broadcasters for nearly a year. How did Slasher's sources miss that bomb? Or maybe he knew, but just couldn't be bothered to write about it.
Now there was a story I was interested in reading about. To bad some folks are focused on signings of players to teams page views.
Who are you to tell what to write and when to write it? By all means, if you want to be that guy. Go for it.
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On January 18 2013 03:09 heyoka wrote:I think this is the most clear cut way to look at it. I don't know how this turned into an ethics debate or something over freedom of press, because that isn't the issue at hand. Journalists needs to do their job and the teams need to do theirs, occasionally these two things will conflict and the resolution isn't easy. The journalists need to be aware, however, that the way they choose to do it carry with them the risk of negatively impacting their ability to do the same things in the future. This is how the world works. Show nested quote +On January 18 2013 01:15 AshenCZ wrote:
Then again, as Destiny pointed out, if something leaks, it is the TEAM's fault, not Slasher's for finding out and doing his job... I understand how people come to this conclusion because it seems like a logical way to look at it, but it's completely untrue. The esports world is very small, if team management are talking to one guy or another it's obvious to a ton of people who have no involvement in the transaction. Negotiations can take forever and during these any team who has expressed interest but been turned down will figure out by process of elimination where they are going, the team has no control over a ton of people who know outside their organization.
So your point is that in a small world tons of people knows about this.. Makes no sense. And stating that something is completly untrue... u are of the oppinion that Teams have no responsability at all? I'm sorry if eSports growing and the process around it is difficult to handle.
Taking precausions against the media is what any organisation would do yes, making it a publicdebate and threaths about cutting off a reporter -no. That's not professionalism.
I belive that journalist are aware about how things work. Teams -nah not so much about media atleast. And they don't seem intrested in for the sake of eSports eather since they don't appriciate news reaching outside the original fanbase.
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First of all, I find it shameful when a particular team owner starts pointing at a journalist for leaking privy information when he should be examining how the information get leaks in the first place.
Although Slasher actions are not unethical, they is similar to those trashy tabloid journalism that jump on any available celebrity gossips to get viewership. Slasher cannot deny he put his self interests first before considering other teams. Again that is human nature, nothing wrong at all, but moving forward, some of us will just look at Slasher in another light.
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preach!!! So wonderfully put sir. Thank you.
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Remember that idle threats will get you nowhere. If you continuously threaten to do something, and don't actually do it, your words will be hollow. Character is definitely something that you need in normal-business-environment, but with a shock-value-type, such as Howard Stern, it helps to do things like that. Look at Destiny.
What you do now is ban him from TL, unlist his channel, etc for a time of suspension. 3 days, or 2 weeks, probably, would be adequate, in this situation. I would say on a 2nd ban, to make it a month or two, and then a 3rd strike, and he's out. If he's your friend, he shouldn't be ratting you out, and fucking you over, pardon my French.
Keep your head up. Negative publicity is better than no publicity, and TL as a company/team have a lot more to say than a few trolls on this message board
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On January 17 2013 22:02 skeldark wrote:
You and your website have the power in this area to get away with such a statement, sadly.
You have a total misunderstanding about the role of media.
You think you are the owner of an information.
You think by buying a player you own the information of you buying him.
Thats not the case!
You say: "write what i want or i dont talk to you any more".
I hope that the media in this area gets powerful enough that they can say:
"You dont want to talk to us, then we dont write about your team any-more"
You abuse the power to be the owner of a Team and a Media site. Thats all.
In any real sport or politics this statement would be the end of your career.
At the moment thats not the case in esport and that gives you the chance, to rethink your statement.
If you would not have your own media site/show and no power over slasher,
if he would not need your information at all (Lets say he is a big journalist from a big new company)
Would we have this discussion?
I dont think so...
You're just flat-out wrong. It is totally about managing relationships. If a politician gives a story to a journalist and that journo then fucks him over by revealing his source, he loses the relationship. It's a give and take situation. The politician needs a good relationship with the press and vice versa.
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On January 19 2013 00:10 Subversive wrote:Show nested quote +On January 17 2013 22:02 skeldark wrote:
You and your website have the power in this area to get away with such a statement, sadly.
You have a total misunderstanding about the role of media.
You think you are the owner of an information.
You think by buying a player you own the information of you buying him.
Thats not the case!
You say: "write what i want or i dont talk to you any more".
I hope that the media in this area gets powerful enough that they can say:
"You dont want to talk to us, then we dont write about your team any-more"
You abuse the power to be the owner of a Team and a Media site. Thats all.
In any real sport or politics this statement would be the end of your career.
At the moment thats not the case in esport and that gives you the chance, to rethink your statement.
If you would not have your own media site/show and no power over slasher,
if he would not need your information at all (Lets say he is a big journalist from a big new company)
Would we have this discussion?
I dont think so... You're just flat-out wrong. It is totally about managing relationships. If a politician gives a story to a journalist and that journo then fucks him over by revealing his source, he loses the relationship. It's a give and take situation. The politician needs a good relationship with the press and vice versa.
That's a horrible analogy. Revealing a source makes him a bad journalist, making it have nothing to do with "managing relationships" and all about ethics and protecting your sources.
Try again.
Edit: And I'm not saying that to be a prick but because I think that there is a valid analogy there that can support your argument.
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On January 19 2013 00:52 Martijn wrote:Show nested quote +On January 19 2013 00:10 Subversive wrote:On January 17 2013 22:02 skeldark wrote:
You and your website have the power in this area to get away with such a statement, sadly.
You have a total misunderstanding about the role of media.
You think you are the owner of an information.
You think by buying a player you own the information of you buying him.
Thats not the case!
You say: "write what i want or i dont talk to you any more".
I hope that the media in this area gets powerful enough that they can say:
"You dont want to talk to us, then we dont write about your team any-more"
You abuse the power to be the owner of a Team and a Media site. Thats all.
In any real sport or politics this statement would be the end of your career.
At the moment thats not the case in esport and that gives you the chance, to rethink your statement.
If you would not have your own media site/show and no power over slasher,
if he would not need your information at all (Lets say he is a big journalist from a big new company)
Would we have this discussion?
I dont think so... You're just flat-out wrong. It is totally about managing relationships. If a politician gives a story to a journalist and that journo then fucks him over by revealing his source, he loses the relationship. It's a give and take situation. The politician needs a good relationship with the press and vice versa. That's a horrible analogy. Revealing a source makes him a bad journalist, making it have nothing to do with "managing relationships" and all about ethics and protecting your sources. Try again. Edit: And I'm not saying that to be a prick but because I think that there is a valid analogy there that can support your argument.
I don't have a problem with my analogy but if you think there's a better one then go right ahead. If all you can say is "you're wrong" then I don't agree.
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Yea this is on the money. people got a bit over zealous over everything. Garfield hit it well that slasher was hurting his own business.. has to be a give and take relationship between organizations and journalists.. and if slasher wants a to just take without giving, as fine as that is, its just a bad business strategy as he will lose his contacts quickly.
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It makes sense that one MAY like another person for something that they may do but one CAN and WILL take advantage of your connection. I think Slasher may take it too far if allowed for the gain of the community and himself as a reporter.
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Journalist isn't a greatful job since it's in the nature of the profession that u will be disliked by companies and such. Lets say they are boycotting Slasher. What happens next? There will be someone else making this reports since it's a business. It's shortsighted to believe that this type of journalism will fade away just because there is one person less reporting the news. Since teamowners are willing to unit against this type of journalism, how is it impossible to unit the teams so that information stays within theese walls? The teams in the debate against Slasher claims its impossble to keep the information as other teams are involved in the biddig of a player. So there are bound to be some leaks. Well maybe that is the problem and not one person. There is a error since other teams can't keep quiet, wich u could expect of them. Expecting a journalist to not report isn't the issue here.
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On January 19 2013 00:10 Subversive wrote:Show nested quote +On January 17 2013 22:02 skeldark wrote:
You and your website have the power in this area to get away with such a statement, sadly.
You have a total misunderstanding about the role of media.
You think you are the owner of an information.
You think by buying a player you own the information of you buying him.
Thats not the case!
You say: "write what i want or i dont talk to you any more".
I hope that the media in this area gets powerful enough that they can say:
"You dont want to talk to us, then we dont write about your team any-more"
You abuse the power to be the owner of a Team and a Media site. Thats all.
In any real sport or politics this statement would be the end of your career.
At the moment thats not the case in esport and that gives you the chance, to rethink your statement.
If you would not have your own media site/show and no power over slasher,
if he would not need your information at all (Lets say he is a big journalist from a big new company)
Would we have this discussion?
I dont think so... You're just flat-out wrong. It is totally about managing relationships. If a politician gives a story to a journalist and that journo then fucks him over by revealing his source, he loses the relationship. It's a give and take situation. The politician needs a good relationship with the press and vice versa.
The police or the secret service, is not allowed to observe him to find his source. Even on court a journalist dont have to tell his source! If he calls out his source himself, he is fucked! i total agree.
That is not what happened here. Slasher did not tell his source!
So this have nothing to do with the topic.
When a journalist have information ABOUT this politic from a DIFFERENT source and dont publish it,
he does a bad job. Even if he had this information from the politic himself before that! Else the politics could just tell him what he want not to be published.
If the political say in public:
This journalist published something about me i dont wanted him to publish, so i dont talk to him any more
That would be his last day in politics. At least in my country...
Because it showes that this politics has an undemocratic understanding of media.
He thinks that he can control what they publish.
This politician is not a democrat and there is no place for him in a democracy.
Beside that:
If politics have a good relationship with the press and vise versa, the press does not do their job.
In this situation:
I have the feeling, that the power that you have if you are a owner and the owner of a show/website ( that is core part of the media) was to much for some people.
They control so much that they start thinking, its their right to have control over the press.
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On January 19 2013 02:23 skeldark wrote:Show nested quote +On January 19 2013 00:10 Subversive wrote:On January 17 2013 22:02 skeldark wrote:
You and your website have the power in this area to get away with such a statement, sadly.
You have a total misunderstanding about the role of media.
You think you are the owner of an information.
You think by buying a player you own the information of you buying him.
Thats not the case!
You say: "write what i want or i dont talk to you any more".
I hope that the media in this area gets powerful enough that they can say:
"You dont want to talk to us, then we dont write about your team any-more"
You abuse the power to be the owner of a Team and a Media site. Thats all.
In any real sport or politics this statement would be the end of your career.
At the moment thats not the case in esport and that gives you the chance, to rethink your statement.
If you would not have your own media site/show and no power over slasher,
if he would not need your information at all (Lets say he is a big journalist from a big new company)
Would we have this discussion?
I dont think so... You're just flat-out wrong. It is totally about managing relationships. If a politician gives a story to a journalist and that journo then fucks him over by revealing his source, he loses the relationship. It's a give and take situation. The politician needs a good relationship with the press and vice versa. The police or the secret service, is not allowed to observe him to find his source. Even on court a journalist dont have to tell his source! If he calls out his source himself, he is fucked! i total agree. That is not what happened here. Slasher did not tell his source! So this have nothing to do with the topic.
I don't know where you are geting your information, but journalist are not given special rights in the US. They can be jailed for not revealing a source (From 2005). In this case, I agree with the journalist and respect them for going to jail, but they are just like anyone with a given profession. They can also be invistigated by the police or any other branch of the goverment if there is good cause. If the source was leaking dangerous or classified information, there is no reason why the police cannot follow the reporter.
To be clear, I don't think the goverment should be "policing" the press, I am just pointing out that journalist have no special immunities from laws.
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@Plansix
Why do you asume i talk about the USA?
Im not from the USA!
In germany there are laws to secure freedom of press .
Btw: I know the case. It was all over the European news that something like this is possible in the usa.
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On January 19 2013 03:09 skeldark wrote:
@Plansix
Why do you asume i talk about the USA?
I serious dont know if you are trolling me. in case you are not:
Im not from the USA! In germany there are laws to secure freedom of press .
Btw: I know the case. It was all over the European news that something like this is possible in the usa.
Well I assumed because Slasher reports for a US company, you were referencing US laws. To be clear, that sort of thing is very uncommon in the US and it is very rare that a journalist is jailed for anything in relation to their job. Most lawyers won't even touch the subject and the goverment normally goes to great lenghts to avoid asking press for their sources.
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Wow Victor, that was really well done. I am impressed both by your honesty and the quality and truth of the argument. To have such a well reasoned and level headed point view is rare, especially in our industry. I agree that Rod's handling of the situation was poor and that it is bad business to mix the "source" relationship and the professional relationship. You have a responsibility to protect that information to the best of your ability and working with someone professionally who will leak information is something you cannot afford to do. It would be the wrong choice for your business. Simply put: "Loose lips sink ships." If not rule #1, that's definitely close to the top of the list.
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EPT
