This may be only relevant to a small minority, but I think everyone who isn't a natural could do with a reminder from time to time (daily?)
There is a girl I like, we were quite close, infact we talked to each other more than we did anyone else. I tried for a long time to increase my attractiveness to her. I read about the importance of posture, of being cool and decisive, of taking the lead and so on.
I understood that sexual attraction for women is compleeeetely different to sexual attraction for men. A girl won't just fall in love with you because you hang out a lot, nomatter how touchingly close or how much of a good time you have together. She might like you, value you, but she won't get turned on by it all. Not one bit.
So I thought I might have been on the way to figuring it out. Infact I swear I came pretty close a few times. But I never made it; I just wasn't good enough.
Now this is hard. You try so much for so long, and still come back to square one. Infact, over a long period of trying and failing it seems like you are cementing yourself in her eyes as a failure. She grows tired, you grow increasingly upset about the whole deal, it just isn't working.
So that is what happened to me. There are a lot of "reasons" for it, and a lot of "reasons" why I'm perhaps beginning to rise above it: slowly turning my life around, back to college, different job, developing self-worth, coming out of depression etc. Being aware of the "theory" of attraction, compounded with developing self esteem, means that yes you CAN for example talk with a decisive tone of voice when you know that it would be better to do so.
But then the other day I noticed that something I was doing was VERY wrong. I'd never noticed it before, and it took a friend a lot of explaining to get me to understand and see it in a different light. I knew of course about the various rules of female attraction in different situations, but I had missed one very vital rule that was probably more relevant to me than any other.
I have always been an exceedingly open & honest person. I like to tell people things. I am compelled to say my every inner thought. I am super analytical, which of course is 100x worse when you are depressed & have an anxiety disorder, and love to discuss whatever crap is running through my brain.
But I realised that a great proportion of what I do communicate - however amusing, interesting, clever - is perceived by others to be INSECURE.
When I am looking through my wardrobe and fussing about what outfit I should wear, I am broadcasting insecurity. When I am telling a story about how a coworker made me feel uncomfortable, I am sounding insecure. When I am writing or texting a monologue to a girl about how I made a funny screwup at work, I am saying I am insecure. Whenever - and this is the BIG one - I try to explain or analyse something I said or done with regards to a girl with said girl, I am whispering to her, oh so very subtly, HOLY SHIT GIRL I AM INSECURE.
Nomatter how goddamn intriguing and interesting I think my rampant analysis and discussions are, in actual fact in the eyes of sexual attraction it is all seriously unattractive behaviour.
So guys, your bestest buddy dearest love who you tell all your inner thoughts and secrets to, who you have lengthy discussions with and who you feel compelled to explain all your behaviour and mistakes to ....if you want to increase your level of sexual attractiveness with her then she actually REALLY doesnt want to know.
"Being cool" is actually NOT just about raising your levels of attractive behaviour, walking with a swagger and a smile. Its also about being aware of and reducing your unattractive behaviour.
So I think I'm going to try out a new rule, and that is "don't talk so much insecure-sounding crap. it might sound interesting and not sound insecure to you - but think about it with the eyes of female sexual attraction and you will realise that what you're saying is actually unwanted behaviour."
You really don't need to break down "coolness" into an array of positive and negative factors if you're looking for a real relationship rather than a quick fuck.
On October 11 2012 15:10 Rubber wrote: You really don't need to break down "coolness" into an array of positive and negative factors if you're looking for a real relationship rather than a quick fuck.
+1
Also, if you want a quick fuck, just emulate a movie star. For the longest time in high school and college I just copied the look and mannerisms of Tom Cruise in Top Gun (sounds totally cheesy but works like a charm).
I later found out why this worked from an ex, who said that when I did that I reminded her of Tom Cruise, who she'd dreamed about dating ever since she was in middle school. Go figure.
E: Also when I was in high school, every morning I would stand in front of the mirror and try to shape my grin to look exactly like his.
You are right, it took me a long time to discover this, but made a big difference when I did.
That stuff is best reserved for talking to the same gender, unless you've been in a relationship for a long time and trust each other very much. It goes for girls to guys too, "does my butt look big in this?" is a cliche but prime example.
Not every girl is the same. What you're saying now applies to this girl but may not apply to some other girl in the future. Just be YOURSELF. And if the girl wants you, it's because she likes who YOU are. Not some cool fake dude.
On October 11 2012 16:20 SeeKeR wrote: Most important thing you need to know is this:
Not every girl is the same. What you're saying now applies to this girl but may not apply to some other girl in the future. Just be YOURSELF. And if the girl wants you, it's because she likes who YOU are. Not some cool fake dude.
I can't stress this enough. What you read anywhere, or hear from anyone (no matter how many girls the person you hear it from has "had") does not necessarily matter. No two girls are the same, and they may be attracted to something wholly different than what you're made to believe through scientific-or-whatever studies and advice from some playboy.
On October 11 2012 16:20 SeeKeR wrote: Most important thing you need to know is this:
Not every girl is the same. What you're saying now applies to this girl but may not apply to some other girl in the future. Just be YOURSELF. And if the girl wants you, it's because she likes who YOU are. Not some cool fake dude.
Just remember, being yourself means doesn't mean doing whatever you feel like. You need to be the best man you can possibly be. As cool, confidant, and suave as YOU can be. Don't be a fake cool dude, be a real cool dude.
Yeah I want to echo the points above. Trying to act attractive is good. But it's more about being the best person you can be than trying to appeal to what someone else wants. And this could mean hard stuff. Maybe you always think about donating to charity or helping in a homeless shelter but are too lazy/pussy to go through with it? (or whatever example you like). Well man up and go through with it. These sort of selfless actions done due to your principles and working hard at being a good person will make you a happy and confident person.
These sort of behaviours will show through in your own happiness with yourself and girls will come to you without you even trying.
IMO never provide and only accept. I don't even try to ever be funny anymore, I don't even try to be funny without looking like I'm trying to be funny, it's just not valuable. Do you understand the concept of frames? You don't even have to provide ever so long as you always maintain good body language and you always control every frame. People will literally just buy you food as an excuse to converse with you.
On October 11 2012 14:59 FFGenerations wrote: I understood that sexual attraction for women is compleeeetely different to sexual attraction for men. A girl won't just fall in love with you because you hang out a lot, nomatter how touchingly close or how much of a good time you have together. She might like you, value you, but she won't get turned on by it all. Not one bit.
That's the same for men, you just aren't paying enough attention to the women in your life.
On October 11 2012 16:20 SeeKeR wrote: Most important thing you need to know is this:
Not every girl is the same. What you're saying now applies to this girl but may not apply to some other girl in the future. Just be YOURSELF. And if the girl wants you, it's because she likes who YOU are. Not some cool fake dude.
Every person is born differently.
The problem with being yourself is you are rolling the dice. For some people, being themselves is very attractive, for others its not and they have to change.
What is "yourself" anyway, what if you were born a psychopath? Should you learn about empathy, or should you just be a dick and not give a shit about other people your whole life?
What if you became a Rockstar and suddenly you are swarmed by girls. Do all those girls love you for who you are?
There are general things that most girls like, some people are born with these traits, other people have to learn it. Saying be yourself, is like realizing you are bad at something, and thinking that is ok and not improving on it.
God what happened to the PUA forum. I wasn't involved in PUA when it was around. Such a damn shame that some people are so intimidated by others success's, that they need to harass them to try to get some sort of a reaction.
Yeah, really this is a single-case scenario. Every girl is different. Maybe this is true for the majority, but I haven't met the majority of females, so I can't say.
The thing that I think everyone needs to be told at some point in their life is that if someone doesn't like you (or even love you) just for being yourself, then there is someone better out there for you.
On October 11 2012 18:06 puppykiller wrote: God what happened to the PUA forum. I wasn't involved in PUA when it was around. Such a damn shame that some people are so intimidated by others success's, that they need to harass them to try to get some sort of a reaction.
There wasn't a lot to be learned on the TL PUA forum, it was just a mud-slinging contest. Starcraft just attracts the wrong type of people, too many sociopaths with big egos. Just like the SC2 strategy section, rather than sharing things they found, they prefer to tell other people their ideas are stupid. Hardly anyone shared ideas or helped each other.
If this was on a social forum it would be completely different, only that you would have the occasional female telling everyone they can't be "tricked" by it.
The forum wasn't helped with the really bad stigma associated with PUA, which I totally understand aswell, it does require a REALLY open mind. If people changed the name PUA to, how to be a better person, there would be a completely different reaction it as well. Really PUA is all about fixing your mistakes, realising some things girls do is a part of their nature and they are actually not being a bitch, and working on being a socially competent person.
On October 11 2012 16:20 SeeKeR wrote: Most important thing you need to know is this:
Not every girl is the same. What you're saying now applies to this girl but may not apply to some other girl in the future. Just be YOURSELF. And if the girl wants you, it's because she likes who YOU are. Not some cool fake dude.
Just remember, being yourself means doesn't mean doing whatever you feel like. You need to be the best man you can possibly be. As cool, confidant, and suave as YOU can be. Don't be a fake cool dude, be a real cool dude.
And that is where mr. Knight hits the nail right on the head. I wouldn't even bother reading the rest.
Also don't stoop to the level of the PUA community. Seriously, I read through some of that shit once and it was so pathetic it made me cringe. Trickery like that should be beneath anyone's standards imo.
It'll just happen, you don't need to convince a girl to like you. It's so much easier when you're both just attracted from the first encounter and go from there. Different girls like different things and maybe you're just not her type?. Guys who are open, honest and sensitive (to others) can be very attractive, as long as they're not whiney, insecure overthinkers.
I wonder how any of these people saying just be yourself and it'll just happen have had or already have girlfriends, probably all of them. They haven't really had to struggle to get a girl to like them perhaps because they for the most part, were confident about themselves, so these kinds of advice is the best that they can possibly give. However, for those who have or used to have low self esteem, like you OP with your depression thing and all, being confident is just becoming a new thing so projecting this confidence requires an extra amount of conscious effort to do effectively so that woman, who are in their 20s and are more aware of dating, can see you as a potential mate.
@OP Yes, you are on to something. I picked up a little nugget of romantic wisdom once. A person in the heat of lust, a person looking for someone to dance with looks at his/her desired sex through a different lense(this is alll in my own head so mix yourself in). When someone is looking for attention for the wrong reasons(insecure reasons) it just looks "icky". So yeah, you probably do look kind of bad for being too open about that kind of thing.
Going to use an analogy, because it occurred to me. MAy or may not be apt. So you have your bedroom, you paint the walls a colour that you like, you put posters on the wall and that is true to who you are as a person. It is also true to you as a person to sometimes rub one out into a tissue. Do you leave the tissue in your room? No that would be gross. Maybe you like to use lotion/lube. Do you put this on your shelf, open on display. No, you bring it out at the moment. You have your geography award on display!
On October 11 2012 22:06 meteorskunk wrote: Going to use an analogy, because it occurred to me. MAy or may not be apt. So you have your bedroom, you paint the walls a colour that you like, you put posters on the wall and that is true to who you are as a person. It is also true to you as a person to sometimes rub one out into a tissue. Do you leave the tissue in your room? No that would be gross. Maybe you like to use lotion/lube. Do you put this on your shelf, open on display. No, you bring it out at the moment. You have your geography award on display!
Great analogy, sharing yourself is fine but it's gotta be a gradual process. Warts and all honesty might be refreshing but it's probably not going to be that attractive early in a relationship compared to what girls fantasize guys as being. I had a girlfriend who once decided to clean my room while I was out. She went under the bed and found mounds of 'those' tissues, used condoms and other filth coated in a layer of dead skin and pubes. She cleaned it all and stayed with me (a keeper) but it's definitely not how to start a relationship.
EPT
