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Something that seems to be overlooked all-too often is:
Most people will not be attracted to you, and this is through no fault of your own whatsoever.
A lack of attraction is probably not your fault, due to something you did, or didn't do; they're just not interested. No matter what you do, or how you act, or how witty or clever or charming you are, many people will just not be interested. You never had a chance in the first place. When you throw in that science has proven that things such as height, shoulder breadth, face symmetry, sweat scent, and DNA differences are all big factors in attractiveness, you really can't blame yourself too much.
So don't sweat it when that one particular girl isn't attracted to you. It probably wasn't something you did wrong, you just aren't the right person. Just keep your chin up, keep yourself tidy, and sooner or later you'll stumble across a girl who IS attracted to you, and you are attracted to her, and then you'll forget why you were worrying about this in the first place.
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United States15275 Posts
You're not broadcasting behavior that is perceived to be insecure. You are insecure and your behavior reflects that you are insecure. And you are only adding more insecurity by changing your behavior to fit the standard of an imaginary person who may or may not care.
Right now it should be irrelevant whether or not one girl happens to be attracted to you. You are talking about how you are dealing with depression and anxiety, which are legitimate issues that should be your priority. She is not attracted to you because deep down you don't think you are worthy of it. You are overly concerned with method, giving off the "right" signals, and compensating for your faults.
On October 11 2012 20:22 B.I.G. wrote:Show nested quote +On October 11 2012 16:44 Xenocide_Knight wrote:On October 11 2012 16:20 SeeKeR wrote:
Most important thing you need to know is this:
Not every girl is the same. What you're saying now applies to this girl but may not apply to some other girl in the future. Just be YOURSELF. And if the girl wants you, it's because she likes who YOU are. Not some cool fake dude. Just remember, being yourself means doesn't mean doing whatever you feel like. You need to be the best man you can possibly be. As cool, confidant, and suave as YOU can be. Don't be a fake cool dude, be a real cool dude. And that is where mr. Knight hits the nail right on the head. I wouldn't even bother reading the rest. Also don't stoop to the level of the PUA community. Seriously, I read through some of that shit once and it was so pathetic it made me cringe. Trickery like that should be beneath anyone's standards imo.
There's a good side and a bad side to the PUA community.
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On October 11 2012 14:59 FFGenerations wrote:
This may be only relevant to a small minority, but I think everyone who isn't a natural could do with a reminder from time to time (daily?)
There is a girl I like, we were quite close, infact we talked to each other more than we did anyone else. I tried for a long time to increase my attractiveness to her. I read about the importance of posture, of being cool and decisive, of taking the lead and so on.
I understood that sexual attraction for women is compleeeetely different to sexual attraction for men. A girl won't just fall in love with you because you hang out a lot, nomatter how touchingly close or how much of a good time you have together. She might like you, value you, but she won't get turned on by it all. Not one bit.
So I thought I might have been on the way to figuring it out. Infact I swear I came pretty close a few times. But I never made it; I just wasn't good enough.
Now this is hard. You try so much for so long, and still come back to square one. Infact, over a long period of trying and failing it seems like you are cementing yourself in her eyes as a failure. She grows tired, you grow increasingly upset about the whole deal, it just isn't working.
So that is what happened to me. There are a lot of "reasons" for it, and a lot of "reasons" why I'm perhaps beginning to rise above it: slowly turning my life around, back to college, different job, developing self-worth, coming out of depression etc. Being aware of the "theory" of attraction, compounded with developing self esteem, means that yes you CAN for example talk with a decisive tone of voice when you know that it would be better to do so.
But then the other day I noticed that something I was doing was VERY wrong. I'd never noticed it before, and it took a friend a lot of explaining to get me to understand and see it in a different light. I knew of course about the various rules of female attraction in different situations, but I had missed one very vital rule that was probably more relevant to me than any other.
I have always been an exceedingly open & honest person. I like to tell people things. I am compelled to say my every inner thought. I am super analytical, which of course is 100x worse when you are depressed & have an anxiety disorder, and love to discuss whatever crap is running through my brain.
But I realised that a great proportion of what I do communicate - however amusing, interesting, clever - is perceived by others to be INSECURE.
When I am looking through my wardrobe and fussing about what outfit I should wear, I am broadcasting insecurity. When I am telling a story about how a coworker made me feel uncomfortable, I am sounding insecure. When I am writing or texting a monologue to a girl about how I made a funny screwup at work, I am saying I am insecure. Whenever - and this is the BIG one - I try to explain or analyse something I said or done with regards to a girl with said girl, I am whispering to her, oh so very subtly, HOLY SHIT GIRL I AM INSECURE.
Nomatter how goddamn intriguing and interesting I think my rampant analysis and discussions are, in actual fact in the eyes of sexual attraction it is all seriously unattractive behaviour.
So guys, your bestest buddy dearest love who you tell all your inner thoughts and secrets to, who you have lengthy discussions with and who you feel compelled to explain all your behaviour and mistakes to ....if you want to increase your level of sexual attractiveness with her then she actually REALLY doesnt want to know.
"Being cool" is actually NOT just about raising your levels of attractive behaviour, walking with a swagger and a smile. Its also about being aware of and reducing your unattractive behaviour.
So I think I'm going to try out a new rule, and that is "don't talk so much insecure-sounding crap. it might sound interesting and not sound insecure to you - but think about it with the eyes of female sexual attraction and you will realise that what you're saying is actually unwanted behaviour."
I had a huge rant, but I'm going to keep it simple.
First of all, if you don't want to be insecure, stop being insecure about being insecure. What I mean is that it's ok to talk about your faults or anything on your mind, but do it with confidence. If you can't say it with confidence, then don't say it at all. Making fun of yourself for a stupid thing is a perfect example - If you do it with confidence, she won't think you're insecure, she'll think you're funny.
Second, if you want to date a girl, put yourself in the friend zone before she does. It sounds crazy, but trust me on this one. Even if it doesn't work out with her, she'll have gotten to know you in a way that when her friend asks "Hey, do you know anyone that would go on a date with me?" She'll look down that list of guy friends, see your name, remember how much of a douche you weren't because you were her friend, and give her friend your number or something.
Third, it's ok to vent, just don't do it a lot to the same person. Vent to yourself sometimes. A lot of insecurities happen because you go to say something, but it comes out dumb because it was the first time you said it. Talk to yourself about it, and see where that leads first. If it starts to get worse, then talk to someone else about it. This will help with you talking too much about things that don't need to be talked about - Also helps not repeat yourself.
Basically dude, I understand where you're coming from. I know a lot of people have said that to you in your life - but when you mentioned being super analytical when you get depressed and just talk about whatever is running through your brain, I was honestly weirded out because I've never met anyone who ha admitted that before. Not only that, but I recognize a lot of the same feelings and thoughts you're having as I had a few years ago. hell, even 6 months ago before I figured out what I just typed to you.
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Looks like NonY has the answer to this one: http://imgur.com/9g1b4
We can all go home now.
But I'll just echo what everyone in the thread has said, and tell you to be more confident and self-assured in your interactions with people in general and girls you like in particular. You already seem to be aware of this somewhat, so keep practicing and you'll do better.
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3rd paragraph
>love
Stop. Never say the word, ever. Even if you're married, never!
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On October 11 2012 21:50 thoraxe wrote:
I wonder how any of these people saying just be yourself and it'll just happen have had or already have girlfriends, probably all of them. They haven't really had to struggle to get a girl to like them perhaps because they for the most part, were confident about themselves, so these kinds of advice is the best that they can possibly give. However, for those who have or used to have low self esteem, like you OP with your depression thing and all, being confident is just becoming a new thing so projecting this confidence requires an extra amount of conscious effort to do effectively so that woman, who are in their 20s and are more aware of dating, can see you as a potential mate.
The thing is (something that I was brought up being told) is that "nobody can love you unless you love yourself". Chances are if OP somehow manages to fake his way into it it's just not going to last long once she really knows him. It has to be natural.
I used to very insecure in my teens and it gradually improved after school and into university when I started to realise, "you know what, I am actually quite attractive. I'm tall, polite, intelligent, good natured, laid back, humorous. I might have a big nose and not be 'fashionable' or 'cool' but that stuff really doesn't matter."
OP HAS to get out of an inward looking cycle and just say F it. I'm still not the most confident person in the world but I no longer blush when a girl speaks to me like I used to do as a spotty 15 year old. It's all about mindset, he has to be himself and NOT CARE what others think about him (to a certain extent). He also has to recognise his positives and stop beating himself up.
Most of this stuff will come with age (I'm 25 now, yikes) and experience, if experience is forthcoming. Hopefully OP you'll meet a girl who knows she likes you (because you're you, not because of a fake persona) and she'll be forward about it.
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On October 12 2012 03:14 3Form wrote:Show nested quote +On October 11 2012 21:50 thoraxe wrote:
I wonder how any of these people saying just be yourself and it'll just happen have had or already have girlfriends, probably all of them. They haven't really had to struggle to get a girl to like them perhaps because they for the most part, were confident about themselves, so these kinds of advice is the best that they can possibly give. However, for those who have or used to have low self esteem, like you OP with your depression thing and all, being confident is just becoming a new thing so projecting this confidence requires an extra amount of conscious effort to do effectively so that woman, who are in their 20s and are more aware of dating, can see you as a potential mate. The thing is (something that I was brought up being told) is that "nobody can love you unless you love yourself". Chances are if OP somehow manages to fake his way into it it's just not going to last long once she really knows him. It has to be natural. I used to very insecure in my teens and it gradually improved after school and into university when I started to realise, "you know what, I am actually quite attractive. I'm tall, polite, intelligent, good natured, laid back, humorous. I might have a big nose and not be 'fashionable' or 'cool' but that stuff really doesn't matter." OP HAS to get out of an inward looking cycle and just say F it. I'm still not the most confident person in the world but I no longer blush when a girl speaks to me like I used to do as a spotty 15 year old. It's all about mindset, he has to be himself and NOT CARE what others think about him (to a certain extent). He also has to recognise his positives and stop beating himself up. Most of this stuff will come with age (I'm 25 now, yikes) and experience, if experience is forthcoming. Hopefully OP you'll meet a girl who knows she likes you (because you're you, not because of a fake persona) and she'll be forward about it.
Haha I like the part where you realize "hey I'm hawt!!" Makes me feel like I could do that. Aren't the girls who become more confident and attractive after lacking these traits the best ones?
I don't think anyone is telling FFGenerations not to act like something that is true to himself. There are many sides to a person. Which side is good for getting to know people. What is my persona? I know for myself the voice in my head can't be matched by my vocal chords. Perhaps this is a result of an unrealistic self-perception?
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I don't get it. Are people really obsessing this much over girls all the time, or is this some sort of trendy TL thing to do?
You spot a girl who's attractive, and you strike up a convo. If you like what you see, you ask her out, if you don't you don't. Sometimes they say yes, sometimes they say no. Why are you guys so convinced that it's more complicated than that?
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On October 12 2012 03:31 Fumanchu wrote:
I don't get it. Are people really obsessing this much over girls all the time, or is this some sort of trendy TL thing to do?
You spot a girl who's attractive, and you strike up a convo. If you like what you see, you ask her out, if you don't you don't. Sometimes they say yes, sometimes they say no. Why are you guys so convinced that it's more complicated than that?
You make a valid point. We seem to over-obsess about romance to the point of not even having out own life to "share" with a significant other. Nonetheless, romantic love +sexuality appear to be driving forces in the human experience.
You collect minerals and gas and make units? simple. whats the point of the strategy forum?
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I think you are putting way too much time/thought/investment into this one girl. That is both "unattractive" and frankly, a bad idea on your part.
And yeah, sharing your daily thoughts and inner feelings is fine when you've been together for a year or so. Not when you aren't even dating.
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United States15275 Posts
On October 12 2012 03:31 Fumanchu wrote:
I don't get it. Are people really obsessing this much over girls all the time, or is this some sort of trendy TL thing to do?
You spot a girl who's attractive, and you strike up a convo. If you like what you see, you ask her out, if you don't you don't. Sometimes they say yes, sometimes they say no. Why are you guys so convinced that it's more complicated than that?
Because the vast majority of human society has been incredibly neurotic about sexuality, and future generations pay the price for it.
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The harsh truth: when friendzoned, it is nearly impossible to change the girl's perception of you, regardless of how hard you try. To ever succeed, it would take years, and would require changes of her personality as well as yours. If you were non-threatening friend (who may or may not be unsexy/goofy/unremarkable), you may always appear that way to her. Wasting all that time, effort, and hope on unrequited love? It won't be worth it.
Also, if you talk to most girls about their friendzoning of other men, they usually tell you "it just wasn't there." And it probably never will be! Acceptance is the first step.
EDIT: echoing above sentiment: trying too hard = desperate = no chance in hell with most women. Women can always tell the difference between desperation, phoniness, sincerity, and confidence. Alcohol and drugs can inhibit this skill, as we've seen
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PUA has been slowly turning me into a sociopath. But oddly enough, I don't seem to mind.
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On October 12 2012 09:18 MountainDewJunkie wrote:
The harsh truth: when friendzoned, it is nearly impossible to change the girl's perception of you, regardless of how hard you try. To ever succeed, it would take years, and would require changes of her personality as well as yours. If you were non-threatening friend (who may or may not be unsexy/goofy/unremarkable), you may always appear that way to her. Wasting all that time, effort, and hope on unrequited love? It won't be worth it.
Also, if you talk to most girls about their friendzoning of other men, they usually tell you "it just wasn't there." And it probably never will be! Acceptance is the first step.
EDIT: echoing above sentiment: trying too hard = desperate = no chance in hell with most women. Women can always tell the difference between desperation, phoniness, sincerity, and confidence. Alcohol and drugs can inhibit this skill, as we've seen
Its important to know why "friend-zoning" happens though and why its so hard to get out of it. I mean if you are attractive (I don't mean in just looks) and you try to friendzone her, its likely that she will try to push things further anyway. That's why the "just be yourself" mantra is so common, because for a lot of people just being friendly works anyway for the few girls that they know.
Its also why its difficult to get out of a friendzone, either you are the type to get friendzoned or your aren't. If you are the type, its going to happen to you a lot, and if you want to take things further with a particular girl you have to try a bit harder.
Its actually quite simple to get out of the friendzone but hard work, you stop talking to her as much (stop being clingy), and start focusing on improving yourself. Fix your posture (very important), go to the gym, buy good clothes, a leather jacket, or just make yourself look a bit more professional. If you are a bad communicator, start going out, even by yourself and introduce yourself to people and learn to talk as much as you can, even go to business conferences if you can, it will probably land you a few good propositions anyway. When you are with friends at a bar/club, introduce yourself to random people. Just learn to talk. Join a band, learn guitar, get good at sports, work hard at your job and get promoted and become a manager, etc.
Become the best person you can possibly be, basically, because the reason you are friendzoned, is that to her you are an average joe, her brain is telling her there is no point in having babies with you because they will just end up mediocre anyway, so she won't feel attracted to you in that way. Of course there is another way, just talk to lots and lots of girls and you will have a bunch that will be willing to sleep with you or be your gf, that also means they are 100% likely to be sleeping with 10 other guys, and that's no fun and lame.
When she sees you are a leader, confident, excelling (don't brag though), and charming, she will probably start escalating things anyway without you needing to try very hard.
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Being cool basically places a higher value on the person who is cool. Fuck values. You are a member of teamliquid.net, the largest sc2 esports community in the world. I dont think your girl is...I think youre cooler than her.
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theory: all problems will be solved when we invent:
1) the holodeck
2) robot women
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I think I might be the complete opposite of OP. I'm also overly analytical and possibly overthink many things, not just including social interactions, behavior, and attraction, but I realized OPs mistake earlier on, but possibly overdid it.
I can play it cool and put on a mask, to give off a certain impression so that I don't appear as your average Joe, and more like someone who want to have babies with, like sluggaslamoo said. But the moment someone gets close enough to see my flaws, to the point when you can't keep a mask in between that other person, my ego freaks out and I end up pulling self away from them. I don't have any insecurities that I'm greatly aware of, but I do lack empathy, and that may be the cause of why I unconsciously put masks on to appear "cool" or attractive depending on what I think the other person would find attractive. When I get close enough to someone, and come to the point being very comfortable with someone, I end up pulling away. I'm still not certain what the cause of this is, but it could be that I'm afraid that without my persona I'm worth less.
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On October 12 2012 03:38 meteorskunk wrote:Show nested quote +On October 12 2012 03:31 Fumanchu wrote:
I don't get it. Are people really obsessing this much over girls all the time, or is this some sort of trendy TL thing to do?
You spot a girl who's attractive, and you strike up a convo. If you like what you see, you ask her out, if you don't you don't. Sometimes they say yes, sometimes they say no. Why are you guys so convinced that it's more complicated than that? You make a valid point. We seem to over-obsess about romance to the point of not even having out own life to "share" with a significant other. Nonetheless, romantic love +sexuality appear to be driving forces in the human experience. You collect minerals and gas and make units? simple. whats the point of the strategy forum?
Awesome comment:p
It's true, anyone can learn the rules of a game, but to actually get good at it...is something entirely different.
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EPT
