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From the Patchzergs thread:
On August 20 2012 09:20 grush57 wrote:
Come on man u come up with this new fancy term and theory and then u disprove it in the same post.
User was temp banned for this post.
On August 20 2012 09:22 WightyCity wrote:
i agree that they appeared mysteriously after a patch. born from a patch, the patchzergs.
User was temp banned for this post.
On August 20 2012 10:01 mrtomjones wrote:
uhh wtf is with those bans on the first page? They didnt say anything out of line -_- I
Romanticism:
A movement in the arts and literature that originated in the late 18th century, emphasizing inspiration, subjectivity, and the primacy of the individual
Most of us TL'ers- myself included- ,I believe, like to have a romanticized version of TL in our heads. It's where all of us nerds gather to talk about how epic MVP vs Squirtle game 7 was on a sunday night where all's fine and smooth wine(phrase credit: Day9). TL is a place where people help others, others help you, you help others. The latest news can be discussed with informed and internet literate people, and you can be up to date on a discussion by reading posts already in the thread.
It's great to view a piece on TL reminiscent of romanticism. Hype threads about players, MVP being the Obi wan to Squirtle's Luke skywalker, blogs about how TL has made you friends, increased your skill at video games, and created a bonding experience in watching SC with your girlfriend.
Alas, this is a dilly dally land, a land we only dabble in once in a while. For the rest, discussion is had. The important thing is to treat each thread on Teamliquid like a location and know what you can and can't do there.
Self-Awareness
Take Avilo's thread discussing the raven speed increase. Right at the top, what does it say?
If this thread can't remain civil then we'll have to close it. Thread will be moderated harshly from pg.3 onwards
That means, no flame wars against zergs who say balance is fine, or against terrans who say balance isn't, for that matter. Argue respectfully, says this kind warning.
However, consider this sentence in a post from that thread:
It's a hell of alot easier to play Z than it is to play Terran right now. Zerg players get so much more free shit than Terrans do. They can't be bunkered on alot of maps in tournament play, they have a virtually free natural due to the extremely long rush distances now, the nerfing of bunker tmings and the barracks timings, they also get a free third now no matter what due to the presence of the new Queen range. Sure, you can beat it; but it's a hell of alot harder to play from behind economically, against a race that can outproduce you by a country mile.
Easier to play zerg? More free shit? Free third?
As a mod, you want to slap a warning on this guy, but he's saying legitimate points(perhaps I didn't pick the best example, but if you've been in the thread, you know what I mean). Mods are faced with a unique challenge in the Starcraft 2 forums in that a precedent has been set. You can let moderate balance whines out as long as they sound thoughtful and your post offers another argument. You can call someone idiotic as long as you don't centralize on the point.
Mods are on edge
No, Mods, I'm not claiming I know how you feel, but this is how I believe we should pretend you feel.
Mods are on edge. There is most certainly a line you cross when you're posting, but it's obscured by a few things:
Reputation:
On July 28 2011 11:55 iNcontroL wrote:please actually read shit before being dumb
This deserves a warning for a normal post most likely. However(ignoring that the guy insulted incontrol), Incontrols longtime rep on TL plus him being a pro plus most of his posts being actually very good.
Remember this?+ Show Spoiler +6. THOU SHALL RESPECT FORUM VETERANS
All other things being equal, we will give preferential treatment to site members who have been with us longer (as reflected in their post count + length of time with us as a registered member). It's a simple recognition of the quality of these people. Longevity and contribution are prized commodities around here. In a similar vein, "known" pro/semi-pro players will also be treated with deference (yes, quite a few hang out here). Don't complain - these guys have earned it.
Remember: we ban little kids all the time because they sign on thinking they can say and do whatever they want to whomever they want right from the get-go - just like they're used to doing at other sites. That attitude won't work here. That's a promise. As far as new users are concerned (i.e. anyone with less than 1000 or so quality posts to their name), this site is Holy Ground. The veterans are the users who've consistently shown respect to the site and to others and that's why they're still here. Show them some respect.
In practice, this policy means a user who has thousands of posts may be able to get away with a few minor transgressions in etiquette with just a warning. If you're at 50 posts and you try the same kind of stunt, then we may just ban you. Harsh? Yes. Unfair? Most definitely. But that's the way life is. Learn to live with it.
This also means you should think twice before calling that guy with 5000+ posts a jackass. If the guy's been with us that long, chances are YOU'RE the one being an idiot. Some battles are just not worth fighting - just move on.
Post Content:
Let's say I write the best christian book ever, and then at the end talk about how all jews are going to hell. My book ends up being left alone as a good christian book. Likewise, on TL, you can write a nice post and call someone a stupid idiot bronze scrub. You can't always, but having a good post would make me question giving a warning.
*Ahem* Mods are on edge
Oh, yes, back to the point. The quotations at the top of the thread are from the patchzergs thread. There is no note at the top of the thread informing you of heavy moderation.
However, the thread discusses patchzergs. Patchzergs means the balance patch giving queens range means the balance of TvZ in particular and the design of the zerg race in general.
Let's go back a step. You consider each thread as a location. Okay Bippzy kthbaiNOTSOFAST! If someone just miscarried, you don't tell a dead baby joke in the same room as them. If a patchzerg thread is threatening to devolve into balance whine and incivility(as shown from avilo's thread) you don't post anything unless if you have
Reputation: Nony could probably go in there and say this:
On August 20 2012 09:20 NONY wrote:
Come on man u come up with this new fancy term and theory and then u disprove it in the same post.
User was not temp banned for this post.
Post content. Imagine if the second temp banned post said something actually related to the discussion after his little patchzerg repetition thing. He'd be fine.
On August 20 2012 09:22 A new Teamliquid Scrub Poster wrote:
i agree that they appeared mysteriously after a patch. born from a patch, the patchzergs.
You need to look at who they're beating, not winrates. They've gotten so good so fast that pre patch they weren't playing big slam events. Now that they are, and suddenly they're doing better compared to what they did in online cups. They exist!
User was not temp banned for this post.
So
On August 20 2012 10:01 mrtomjones wrote:
uhh wtf is with those bans on the first page? They didnt say anything out of line -_- I
But they didn't say anything in line, and that was their downfall. Food for thought, I guess.
Mods are on edge
Bet you didn't think you'd see this bolded again 
So I've established why those posters were temp banned. But I also want to say that mods are on edge, they can't just warn and temp ban everyone. Consider these posts that followed soon after, and have a nice day my Esports loving friends at Teamliquid!
On August 20 2012 09:34 zhurai wrote:
you spelled "imaginary" wrong
On August 20 2012 09:41 Kahlgar wrote:
nice sample size bro
On August 20 2012 09:42 sertman wrote:![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/9403C.jpg) fucking patchzergs man
Note: I know this post is fine cuz it was funny
On August 20 2012 09:43 indxrje wrote:
sortof and johnnyrecco are giant patchzergs
On August 20 2012 09:46 TargA wrote:
real
On August 20 2012 10:00 CatNzHat wrote:real
On August 20 2012 10:41 mierin wrote:
Yeah Vortix is really a patch Zerg, he uses so many queens...oh wait
Disclaimer: I'm not claiming to know how mods mod. Or that the posts at the end deserve warnings, just that they are definitely on the line and some of them are comparable to the temp banned ones.
 
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Maybe you noticed but one of the quotes in your last run of quotes was from TargA. Kinda fits in with what you were saying earlier about reputation. The other ones not so much :D
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On August 20 2012 11:53 Bibbit wrote:
Maybe you noticed but one of the quotes in your last run of quotes was from TargA. Kinda fits in with what you were saying earlier about reputation. The other ones not so much :D
And to be fair, I believe real is a player(a candidate for patchzergness), so he's really just adding to the discussion in the MOST concise manner possible. I didn't know TargA was an old hand at TL. Go figure.
Edit: OHHH he's an Sc2 player. Didn't know that either.
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There's nothing abnormal about TLs moderation as long as you remember that it's mostly run by above-average-intelligence, above-average-ego 20-something regular human beings.
Realistically, you only have 3 options to be mostly sure you don't get an infraction ever:
1) Don't post.
2) Make sure what you post is always completely lukewarm or robotically positive.
3) Be an outstanding contributor with everything you post.
If you say something contrary to the opinion of most of the mods, you're almost always going to walk somewhere close to the line. There's no point in looking at TL like it's a public forum run by perfect, highly paid and completely unbiased professionals because it's not. It's a private site run primarily by young adults with opinions and biases exactly like ours, and all things considered, they do a respectable job of being responsible about it.
EDIT: What I'm trying to say is that if you don't have anything nice to say, don't say anything at all or someone might take offense to you being not-nice on their website.
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I'm pretty sure my posting history does not entirely fall into any of those above options.
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On August 20 2012 12:18 -Kaiser- wrote:
There's nothing abnormal about TLs moderation as long as you remember that it's mostly run by above-average-intelligence, above-average-ego 20-something regular human beings.
Realistically, you only have 3 options to be mostly sure you don't get an infraction ever:
1) Don't post.
2) Make sure what you post is always completely lukewarm or robotically positive.
3) Be an outstanding contributor with everything you post.
If you say something contrary to the opinion of most of the mods, you're almost always going to walk somewhere close to the line. There's no point in looking at TL like it's a public forum run by perfect, highly paid and completely unbiased professionals because it's not. It's a private site run primarily by young adults with opinions and biases exactly like ours, and all things considered, they do a respectable job of being responsible about it.
EDIT: What I'm trying to say is that if you don't have anything nice to say, don't say anything at all or someone might take offense to you being not-nice on their website.
I completely disagree with this post. I am frequently not nice on these forums.
I have never seen anyone banned on TL for anything other than being deliberately malicious AND extreme about it. The mods here do a superb job. Without them I would have never accumulated this many posts because I would have left the forums long ago. Seriously we all have a lot to be thankful for; this place could very easily be just another forum like the official bnet forums. Mods are here to make sure discussion is taking place, something rare on the internet these days. On other forums people talk at each other, here people talk to each other.
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On August 20 2012 12:18 -Kaiser- wrote:
There's nothing abnormal about TLs moderation as long as you remember that it's mostly run by above-average-intelligence, above-average-ego 20-something regular human beings.
Realistically, you only have 3 options to be mostly sure you don't get an infraction ever:
1) Don't post.
2) Make sure what you post is always completely lukewarm or robotically positive.
3) Be an outstanding contributor with everything you post.
If you say something contrary to the opinion of most of the mods, you're almost always going to walk somewhere close to the line. There's no point in looking at TL like it's a public forum run by perfect, highly paid and completely unbiased professionals because it's not. It's a private site run primarily by young adults with opinions and biases exactly like ours, and all things considered, they do a respectable job of being responsible about it.
EDIT: What I'm trying to say is that if you don't have anything nice to say, don't say anything at all or someone might take offense to you being not-nice on their website.
or make a post with links / cititions, supported with empirical evidence. thoughtfulness. good intention. 3 positive 1 negative
On August 20 2012 12:26 Sinensis wrote:Show nested quote +On August 20 2012 12:18 -Kaiser- wrote:
There's nothing abnormal about TLs moderation as long as you remember that it's mostly run by above-average-intelligence, above-average-ego 20-something regular human beings.
Realistically, you only have 3 options to be mostly sure you don't get an infraction ever:
1) Don't post.
2) Make sure what you post is always completely lukewarm or robotically positive.
3) Be an outstanding contributor with everything you post.
If you say something contrary to the opinion of most of the mods, you're almost always going to walk somewhere close to the line. There's no point in looking at TL like it's a public forum run by perfect, highly paid and completely unbiased professionals because it's not. It's a private site run primarily by young adults with opinions and biases exactly like ours, and all things considered, they do a respectable job of being responsible about it.
EDIT: What I'm trying to say is that if you don't have anything nice to say, don't say anything at all or someone might take offense to you being not-nice on their website. I completely disagree with this post. I am frequently not nice on these forums. I have never seen anyone banned on TL for anything other than being deliberately malicious AND extreme about it. The mods here do a superb job. Without them I would have never accumulated this many posts because I would have left the forums long ago. Seriously we all have a lot to be thankful for; this place could very easily be just another forum like the official bnet forums. Mods are here to make sure discussion is taking place, something rare on the internet these days. On other forums people talk at each other, here people talk to each other.
the mods also don't let idiots run around for long
source: my posting history lol
i was a pretty shitty poster T__T;; hopefully slightly better now
but yeah hmm... generally if i have something not nice to say, i think about attribution theory. how the person came to the position they have. their family background, their level of education, their access to information, their biological dispositions. i still feel some anger, but it's redirected at western society rather than the individual offender.
example: multiculturalism thread... zomg.. there were so many good posts... but eventually it degenerated into racism. ideas of cultural superiority... gah...
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TL have its biased. Remember it is the mod's home, not yours. As matter of facts, we forum surfers that names ourselves as TLers are simply guest in this realm. We are simply I.D.s. But however speaking, while we might be a mere lowlife species in their faces, we must still put up a strong fight against your own personal belief. Sort of shaping to perfection.
If anyone have gotten in touch with french literature, the play "Tartuffe" displayed one aspect on which you should definitely follow. What had happened was that the main character stayed at a home of a friend of his in which he later have plotted the houseowner's own son out of the facility and rendered himself to be a more 'respectful' figure. Now I'm not saying that we should follow his example of scheme. He did in a such fashion that sounded reasonable.
So essentially what I'm trying to get at is that we all need to learn how to be reasonable with each other in our house. For newbies, we must grant them a certain number of warnings before issuing a direct ban. But for the upper echelon of this vicinity, when it comes down to it, the forumers must, by all means fight with compelling and radiant point to an appropriate degree.
Thanks the OP for bringing such topic into discussion.
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I'm going to use some examples because I'm not very good at articulating myself any other way.
There is one person who is not nice because they want to disrupt conversation. They do this because they are offended and since they are offended, they feel the need to offend everyone else.
Then there is another person who is not nice because they want to communicate their feelings. They want to get their sincere thoughts out into the open, into the discussion, because they feel passionately about them.
The first person is the one who will be banned. This is what I notice.
It's okay to vent here now and again. Just be constructive, try to write things people will benefit somehow from reading. Every time I see that someone has been banned for saying "are you fing retarded?" I smile because trash like that gets by almost everywhere else.
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Blazinghand
United States25551 Posts
TL.Net Commandments
1: THIS IS OUR HOUSE
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I wrote this nice reply to Kaiser until I realised that we both said the same thing, except with different connotation. I didn't really want to just throw it away, and it does have some nice advice for noobs, so here it is:
Don't be chicken to have an opinion or make a post, even a controversial one, on TL.
You really never need to say something you don't mean or avoid posting in order to avoid a ban. Just be sensible while toeing the line. Provide reasoning, sometimes sources, and wittiness/jokes for bonus points.
Basically, if you don't do a stupid, you don't have to worry about the hammer.
For instance, saying "blacks are stupid" is bad. Saying "blacks are the least intelligent ethnic group because of all the ethnic groups, they have the lowest average IQ according to (source), (source) and (source)" is ok. For a post like that, you won't get the hammer. Of course, you will have a lot of heated replies that you're going to have to handle in some way, but you definitely won't get banned.
There are some unstated rules for posting in certain threads, like whether or not it's ok to just make a post just a few words long to pipe in, or whether you should back-seat moderate, but odds are the worst you'll receive for infracting on those rules the first time is a warning, and then you know that there's a rule for that.
Besides, odds are you won't break any of those unstated rules, if you just read a few of the replies on the first page. Those replies usually have two things going for them: they often come from more experienced forum members, and they establish precedent for posts that deserve a ban or not.
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Great blog, really points out some things that we can all learn from!
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On August 20 2012 12:50 Blazinghand wrote:
TL.Net Commandments
1: THIS IS OUR HOUSE
this is basically it to be honest
we are still living under their house and sometimes we just forget about it because it is quite a welcoming home
but their house, their rules.
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I'm pretty sure, though, that Commandment #1 isn't meant to say "We mods rule here and your normal user opinion isn't worth very much" or "Mod opinion is worth more than yours", but instead "This is a public place of discussion and community with certain rules that are defined by us. Follow them or leave.". Two very different statements.
I picture them more as private/public servants rather than rulers, and I sure hope they don't disagree. What makes TL so great is that it's just as open as any other forum, but it just filters out the bad things pretty well and pretty quickly also.
For example, if suddenly the entire forum started rebelling against a certain mod who somehow screwed up in a major way, I'm sure they wouldn't stay mod for long and resign soon after (this has already happened).
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Australia1191 Posts
Heres an idea for everyone not just on TL but for life in general
When you have something to say/post
say it in your head once or twice first, then think.
Is this something i would say in Public?
Is this something i would say to a stranger i bumped into or whom said something i disagree with across the room?
Is this something my mother or father would be dissapointed to hear me say?
Not everything you think, has to be forever scrawled on the walls of the internet or the depths of someone else memory.
But everything you say has a consequence be it good or bad. <3
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I feel like the TL mods are just barely containing the shit that threatens to destroy TL. All the reddit u mad bros, and legions of 4chan trolls are just chomping at the bit waiting for our ardent defenders to falter. They wait like vultures or coyotes, waiting to come and cannibalize the remains of a once civil forum. But hope springs eternal in quality new members raising the flag for good posts and productive discussion.
Imagine if you will a giant raging river consisting of entirely sewage and fecal matter. Our TL Mods are the Dutch dams straining to hold that filth back from overwhelming our beloved site. Still we see the cracks, the thin rivulets of fetid waste that invade our sanctuary. Alas or heroes can't hold on their own. They need our help. We need to be the ones saying, "Nay, that filth does not belong here," that we take up the hammer and chisel, and be the masons of TL.
TL DR, the mods do a good job, but we need to take some ownership for our fair website.
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Mods are great at controlling all the flaming, BMing, trolling, balance-whining, player/caster/observer/host bashing, etc, and at the end of the day all of us "TLers" are just bugs on a windshield.
Like Blazinghand pointed out, they can kick us out any-time they want to. You don't break the rules of the house when you're inhabiting that house.
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United States33330 Posts
On August 20 2012 13:36 AnachronisticAnarchy wrote:
For instance, saying "blacks are stupid" is bad. Saying "blacks are the least intelligent ethnic group because of all the ethnic groups, they have the lowest average IQ according to (source), (source) and (source)" is ok.
Actually you'd totally get banned for that
but if you post something about tibet that seems well researched but inflammatory, we'd probably have no idea what to do
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On August 20 2012 15:05 Waxangel wrote:Show nested quote +On August 20 2012 13:36 AnachronisticAnarchy wrote:
For instance, saying "blacks are stupid" is bad. Saying "blacks are the least intelligent ethnic group because of all the ethnic groups, they have the lowest average IQ according to (source), (source) and (source)" is ok. Actually you'd totally get banned for that but if you post something about tibet that seems well researched but inflammatory, we'd probably have no idea what to do
Time to hit the books.
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Seems pretty hard to even get warned unless if you're coming here with your official Blizzard forums behaviour or trying really hard to be a jackass. I don't think I even got a single warning yet and I've made some retarded posts and most provide zero contribution.
I recall when I ended up to elitistjerks site a few years back when I played WoW and got a warning from my first and also last post, now thats harsh moderation.
Mods could be far more strict here imo. But I guess with over 10k people browsing the site at once it gets rough.
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Baltimore, USA22251 Posts
On August 20 2012 12:18 -Kaiser- wrote:
There's nothing abnormal about TLs moderation as long as you remember that it's mostly run by above-average-intelligence, above-average-ego 20-something regular human beings.
Realistically, you only have 3 options to be mostly sure you don't get an infraction ever:
1) Don't post.
2) Make sure what you post is always completely lukewarm or robotically positive.
3) Be an outstanding contributor with everything you post.
If you say something contrary to the opinion of most of the mods, you're almost always going to walk somewhere close to the line. There's no point in looking at TL like it's a public forum run by perfect, highly paid and completely unbiased professionals because it's not. It's a private site run primarily by young adults with opinions and biases exactly like ours, and all things considered, they do a respectable job of being responsible about it.
EDIT: What I'm trying to say is that if you don't have anything nice to say, don't say anything at all or someone might take offense to you being not-nice on their website.
I agree with some of your theories, but I think your conclusions are completely incorrect.
It'd be impossible to say we don't have bias. In fact, I would dare say we have a hell of a lot of bias in a great many things (which is actually part of what makes TL great IMO - everyone from top to bottom has an investment in the site). I think what truly sets us apart is actually that DESPITE our bias, we do a pretty damn good job at being objective with our moderation. In fact, I challenge you to find maybe even 1 or 2 truly biased and unwarranted bans in the past 10, 20, 50, whatever number of pages in the automated ban list you feel like checking.
Generally speaking, there is reason behind everything we do. We are only human and not 100% perfect by any means, but I think we do as close to it as we can. Obviously I'm biased.
Also, I've always thought it hilarious that people think there is a perception that unpopular opinions get you banned. Find me a SINGLE EXAMPLE of this happening. More often than not, it's more than just an 'unpopular' opinion that goes along with it, and TBH my experience shows that most people who are quick to make those complaints have a long moderation history, and often fail to understand why they were banned.
This is not an ad-hom by any means, but just for an example with Kaiser here; your opinion that unpopular opinions get moderated has to be taken with a gain of salt considering you have a perm'ed account with a whole list of temp bans and the inevitable perm that goes along with it.
I don't think I've seen any warnless or banless posters ever complain about it, even the ones that disagree with popular opinions.
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On August 20 2012 17:43 EvilTeletubby wrote:Show nested quote +On August 20 2012 12:18 -Kaiser- wrote:
There's nothing abnormal about TLs moderation as long as you remember that it's mostly run by above-average-intelligence, above-average-ego 20-something regular human beings.
Realistically, you only have 3 options to be mostly sure you don't get an infraction ever:
1) Don't post.
2) Make sure what you post is always completely lukewarm or robotically positive.
3) Be an outstanding contributor with everything you post.
If you say something contrary to the opinion of most of the mods, you're almost always going to walk somewhere close to the line. There's no point in looking at TL like it's a public forum run by perfect, highly paid and completely unbiased professionals because it's not. It's a private site run primarily by young adults with opinions and biases exactly like ours, and all things considered, they do a respectable job of being responsible about it.
EDIT: What I'm trying to say is that if you don't have anything nice to say, don't say anything at all or someone might take offense to you being not-nice on their website. I agree with some of your theories, but I think your conclusions are completely incorrect. + Show Spoiler +It'd be impossible to say we don't have bias. In fact, I would dare say we have a hell of a lot of bias in a great many things (which is actually part of what makes TL great IMO - everyone from top to bottom has an investment in the site). I think what truly sets us apart is actually that DESPITE our bias, we do a pretty damn good job at being objective with our moderation. In fact, I challenge you to find maybe even 1 or 2 truly biased and unwarranted bans in the past 10, 20, 50, whatever number of pages in the automated ban list you feel like checking. Generally speaking, there is reason behind everything we do. We are only human and not 100% perfect by any means, but I think we do as close to it as we can. Obviously I'm biased. Also, I've always thought it hilarious that people think there is a perception that unpopular opinions get you banned. Find me a SINGLE EXAMPLE of this happening. More often than not, it's more than just an 'unpopular' opinion that goes along with it, and TBH my experience shows that most people who are quick to make those complaints have a long moderation history, and often fail to understand why they were banned. This is not an ad-hom by any means, but just for an example with Kaiser here; your opinion that unpopular opinions get moderated has to be taken with a gain of salt considering you have a perm'ed account with a whole list of temp bans and the inevitable perm that goes along with it. I don't think I've seen any warnless or banless posters ever complain about it, even the ones that disagree with popular opinions.
I agree with the majority of your post.
Also, I've always thought it hilarious that people think there is a perception that unpopular opinions get you banned. Find me a SINGLE EXAMPLE of this happening.
I'd say this was definitely a biased ban.
Happystreet was just temp banned for 2 days by Twisted.
That account was created on 2011-01-26 06:12:00 and had 469 posts.
Reason:
On August 20 2012 05:09 Happystreet wrote:
Omg Messi blew that so hard he is so overrated.
Terrible trolling. Not needed.
But overall TL's staff is doing an amazing job. You hardly ever come across bad/offensive posts that have not been warned/banned yet.
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I can only recall 2 bans to people that (I think) were based mainly on opinion. There was a thread a while back where a boy got beat up by a group of girls or something and someone said that if that was his kid, then he deserved it for being a pussy or something like that. He kept defending his (highly unpopular) opinion and then I think FrozenArbiter was like, "We don't want you here anymore" or something and banned him.
The other time I was reading through some old threads the other day and saw one where the guy was talking about his past joining clans, gaining status, and then banning everyone in the clan or something. He got banned too.
I think sometimes the mods act for the benefit of the forums sometimes when they do ban because of unpopular opinion. Sometimes there are those people so despicable that its better to get rid of them when they show themselves. In the above two cases, I think the bans were justified, even though the posters didn't do anything inherently wrong.
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That Messi one seems biased an unneeded
If I said Marineking was overrated when he cocked something up I doubt I'd get banned but eh not really an apt comparison but still
Football has many aspects of what what people consider being "good" if I asked my dad he'd probably say someone who can barge the shit out of players and just be 7 foot and have muscles the sze of tree trunks everyone else is weak in comparison
to someone who doesn't think very highly of skills or chips or tricks then sure messi might seem pretty overrated
derailing the topic here with football so i'll stop
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On August 20 2012 17:43 EvilTeletubby wrote:Show nested quote +On August 20 2012 12:18 -Kaiser- wrote:
There's nothing abnormal about TLs moderation as long as you remember that it's mostly run by above-average-intelligence, above-average-ego 20-something regular human beings.
Realistically, you only have 3 options to be mostly sure you don't get an infraction ever:
1) Don't post.
2) Make sure what you post is always completely lukewarm or robotically positive.
3) Be an outstanding contributor with everything you post.
If you say something contrary to the opinion of most of the mods, you're almost always going to walk somewhere close to the line. There's no point in looking at TL like it's a public forum run by perfect, highly paid and completely unbiased professionals because it's not. It's a private site run primarily by young adults with opinions and biases exactly like ours, and all things considered, they do a respectable job of being responsible about it.
EDIT: What I'm trying to say is that if you don't have anything nice to say, don't say anything at all or someone might take offense to you being not-nice on their website. I agree with some of your theories, but I think your conclusions are completely incorrect. It'd be impossible to say we don't have bias. In fact, I would dare say we have a hell of a lot of bias in a great many things (which is actually part of what makes TL great IMO - everyone from top to bottom has an investment in the site). I think what truly sets us apart is actually that DESPITE our bias, we do a pretty damn good job at being objective with our moderation. In fact, I challenge you to find maybe even 1 or 2 truly biased and unwarranted bans in the past 10, 20, 50, whatever number of pages in the automated ban list you feel like checking. Generally speaking, there is reason behind everything we do. We are only human and not 100% perfect by any means, but I think we do as close to it as we can. Obviously I'm biased. Also, I've always thought it hilarious that people think there is a perception that unpopular opinions get you banned. Find me a SINGLE EXAMPLE of this happening. More often than not, it's more than just an 'unpopular' opinion that goes along with it, and TBH my experience shows that most people who are quick to make those complaints have a long moderation history, and often fail to understand why they were banned. This is not an ad-hom by any means, but just for an example with Kaiser here; your opinion that unpopular opinions get moderated has to be taken with a gain of salt considering you have a perm'ed account with a whole list of temp bans and the inevitable perm that goes along with it. I don't think I've seen any warnless or banless posters ever complain about it, even the ones that disagree with popular opinions.
I was banned for quoting a pro and mimicing what he said (it was rude towards X person i used it back at him as it was in context) and he recieved nada. Explanation? ^_^ I was told "because of your previous warnings and bans" when i asked.
I'd say that was number #1 on the biased bans list, you wouldnt throw someone in jail if they ate the last apple because they previously commited murder xD
Either way, dont ban or warn for this please? :D
And this doesnt matter to me, ive just never understood that ban, out of my four or so.
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On August 20 2012 21:40 Capped wrote:Show nested quote +On August 20 2012 17:43 EvilTeletubby wrote:On August 20 2012 12:18 -Kaiser- wrote:
There's nothing abnormal about TLs moderation as long as you remember that it's mostly run by above-average-intelligence, above-average-ego 20-something regular human beings.
Realistically, you only have 3 options to be mostly sure you don't get an infraction ever:
1) Don't post.
2) Make sure what you post is always completely lukewarm or robotically positive.
3) Be an outstanding contributor with everything you post.
If you say something contrary to the opinion of most of the mods, you're almost always going to walk somewhere close to the line. There's no point in looking at TL like it's a public forum run by perfect, highly paid and completely unbiased professionals because it's not. It's a private site run primarily by young adults with opinions and biases exactly like ours, and all things considered, they do a respectable job of being responsible about it.
EDIT: What I'm trying to say is that if you don't have anything nice to say, don't say anything at all or someone might take offense to you being not-nice on their website. I agree with some of your theories, but I think your conclusions are completely incorrect. It'd be impossible to say we don't have bias. In fact, I would dare say we have a hell of a lot of bias in a great many things (which is actually part of what makes TL great IMO - everyone from top to bottom has an investment in the site). I think what truly sets us apart is actually that DESPITE our bias, we do a pretty damn good job at being objective with our moderation. In fact, I challenge you to find maybe even 1 or 2 truly biased and unwarranted bans in the past 10, 20, 50, whatever number of pages in the automated ban list you feel like checking. Generally speaking, there is reason behind everything we do. We are only human and not 100% perfect by any means, but I think we do as close to it as we can. Obviously I'm biased. Also, I've always thought it hilarious that people think there is a perception that unpopular opinions get you banned. Find me a SINGLE EXAMPLE of this happening. More often than not, it's more than just an 'unpopular' opinion that goes along with it, and TBH my experience shows that most people who are quick to make those complaints have a long moderation history, and often fail to understand why they were banned. This is not an ad-hom by any means, but just for an example with Kaiser here; your opinion that unpopular opinions get moderated has to be taken with a gain of salt considering you have a perm'ed account with a whole list of temp bans and the inevitable perm that goes along with it. I don't think I've seen any warnless or banless posters ever complain about it, even the ones that disagree with popular opinions. I was banned for quoting a pro and mimicing what he said (it was rude towards X person i used it back at him as it was in context) and he recieved nada. Explanation? ^_^ I was told "because of your previous warnings and bans" when i asked. I'd say that was number #1 on the biased bans list, you wouldnt throw someone in jail if they ate the last apple because they previously commited murder xD Either way, dont ban or warn for this please? :D And this doesnt matter to me, ive just never understood that ban, out of my four or so.
bring up the quote and maybe someone else can give their opinion
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Zurich15325 Posts
Yes, we are very biased against people with previous offenses. What happens when a questionable post is found / reported:
- Check context
- Check user mod history
- Check most recent posts
If user A has 0 mod history and his recent posts are all fine he'll get a go. User B with 8 mod notes and/or generally questionable posting will get a ban for the same thing.
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On August 20 2012 22:08 zatic wrote:
Yes, we are very biased against people with previous offenses. What happens when a questionable post is found / reported:
- Check context
- Check user mod history
- Check most recent posts
If user A has 0 mod history and his recent posts are all fine he'll get a go. User B with 8 mod notes and/or generally questionable posting will get a ban for the same thing.
what about if User A had 5 mod notes or whatever but they were all a year ago and has been fine up until this point how much consideration do you give the mod notes then? Is it equal to user B and his recent mod notes?
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On August 20 2012 22:12 Denzil wrote:Show nested quote +On August 20 2012 22:08 zatic wrote:
Yes, we are very biased against people with previous offenses. What happens when a questionable post is found / reported:
- Check context
- Check user mod history
- Check most recent posts
If user A has 0 mod history and his recent posts are all fine he'll get a go. User B with 8 mod notes and/or generally questionable posting will get a ban for the same thing. what about if User A had 5 mod notes or whatever but they were all a year ago and has been fine up until this point how much consideration do you give the mod notes then? Is it equal to user B and his recent mod notes?
Its a good point, considering ive cleaned my act up somewhat, after learning never to post while inebriated, it helps alot! xD
Also to never post about lindsey sporrer, oh god..
I wont take the time to bring up the original quote of my ban btw, its not worth it and i cant remember for the life of me where it would be. Past is past, move orrn
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Zurich15325 Posts
On August 20 2012 22:12 Denzil wrote:Show nested quote +On August 20 2012 22:08 zatic wrote:
Yes, we are very biased against people with previous offenses. What happens when a questionable post is found / reported:
- Check context
- Check user mod history
- Check most recent posts
If user A has 0 mod history and his recent posts are all fine he'll get a go. User B with 8 mod notes and/or generally questionable posting will get a ban for the same thing. what about if User A had 5 mod notes or whatever but they were all a year ago and has been fine up until this point how much consideration do you give the mod notes then? Is it equal to user B and his recent mod notes?
Obviously more recent offenses weigh heavier than something years ago.
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if you really need a reminder at the top of the page that posting like an idiot will get you banned, it really was only a matter of time til the axe hit the back of your neck
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On August 20 2012 15:05 Waxangel wrote:Show nested quote +On August 20 2012 13:36 AnachronisticAnarchy wrote:
For instance, saying "blacks are stupid" is bad. Saying "blacks are the least intelligent ethnic group because of all the ethnic groups, they have the lowest average IQ according to (source), (source) and (source)" is ok. Actually you'd totally get banned for that but if you post something about tibet that seems well researched but inflammatory, we'd probably have no idea what to do
I can't tell is a joke or real but either way it made me laugh.
Thanks mods for opening up to some of the opinions in this thread, really added a lot and made me learn much.
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Calgary25979 Posts
On August 20 2012 14:48 fire_brand wrote:
I feel like the TL mods are just barely containing the shit that threatens to destroy TL. All the reddit u mad bros, and legions of 4chan trolls are just chomping at the bit waiting for our ardent defenders to falter. They wait like vultures or coyotes, waiting to come and cannibalize the remains of a once civil forum. But hope springs eternal in quality new members raising the flag for good posts and productive discussion.
Imagine if you will a giant raging river consisting of entirely sewage and fecal matter. Our TL Mods are the Dutch dams straining to hold that filth back from overwhelming our beloved site. Still we see the cracks, the thin rivulets of fetid waste that invade our sanctuary. Alas or heroes can't hold on their own. They need our help. We need to be the ones saying, "Nay, that filth does not belong here," that we take up the hammer and chisel, and be the masons of TL.
TL DR, the mods do a good job, but we need to take some ownership for our fair website.
I drew this a while ago:
![[image loading]](http://www.teamliquid.net/staff/Chill/theproblemwiththestratforum.jpg)
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Baltimore, USA22251 Posts
On August 20 2012 22:15 Capped wrote:
I wont take the time to bring up the original quote of my ban btw, its not worth it and i cant remember for the life of me where it would be. Past is past, move orrn
No, you wanted to bring up your last ban as a point in the discussion, so no sense in not posting it.
Here is your gem:
On February 02 2012 23:50 Capped wrote:
Blizzard doesnt give a fuck about what your all saying.
Your wasting your time even thinking about it. Let alone posting in a thread on TL.
User was temp banned for this post.
A blanket insult to everyone in the thread, especially given your recent history at the time, is something undeserved you feel?
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Hyrule19029 Posts
ban again for bad grammar imo
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On August 21 2012 00:47 Chill wrote:
Lmao
Well I don't know, I've never had a real issue with TL Mods. I feel like people who do are just upset because they feel their opinions were stymied by a mod "unfairly". I mean seriously who gives that much of a fuck about your opinion. If you want to be heard then people who are willing to listen will listen. But if you cross that line and start mouthing off on some bitch for no better reason than to oppose their opinions then you deserve the ban.
Other than that if you got a temp ban over something stupid, then shut up and realize that all that's happened to you is that somebody doesn't want to hear from you for a few days. I mean shit, if you walked into my house and started barking some ignorant bullshit then your ass is going to get the boot.
There has been only one time as far as I remember, when I was banned. It was by manifesto7, and I remember being angry that I was not able to bark back at the bitches in my thread. But after a few days I began to simmer down and realized that I wasn't helping anyone or moving the discussion along by maliciously attacking someone on a damn video game forum. Time went on and unfortunately I still had some lingering issues with people with opposing opinions. I didn't fully understand the concept of people having different opinions. Stupid but it was true. I mean in the real world most people avoid confrontations, but online..fuck we go ape shit crazy on each other. Eventually after receiving a warning or two I just threw my hands up and stopped trying to argue with people online.
We all have our own opinions and beliefs that we subscribe to. We subscribe to it, we can preach a little if we want, but no god damn assimilation is going to happen in this bitch. If you got something to say then just say it, but say it in a civilized fashion. Civilized as in "here's what I think" and "no bitch I disagree now let me tell you why" and just leave it at that. You don't have to hound everyone into following your beliefs. If they didn't agree with your logic and your research then you should just agree to disagree.
But hey man that's just my opinion. This is the mentality I subscribe to when I'm posting out my thoughts now. Because in the end I know you have your own opinions and if I didn't convince you to agree with mine then that's fine and all gravy with me because we'll both be right in our own worlds and live life another day. So that means you don't have to take it from me, because at the end of the day you can still do whatever the FUCK you want to do. But just remember that here at TL the mods are just keeping things in moderation.
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United States10328 Posts
On August 20 2012 17:43 EvilTeletubby wrote:
In fact, I challenge you to find maybe even 1 or 2 truly biased and unwarranted bans in the past 10, 20, 50, whatever number of pages in the automated ban list you feel like checking.
It seems like the OP (and others) are more concerned with biased non-bans though.
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Baltimore, USA22251 Posts
On August 21 2012 02:27 Snuggles wrote:
Well I don't know, I've never had a real issue with TL Mods. I feel like people who do are just upset because they feel their opinions were stymied by a mod "unfairly".
If that was intentional... then 
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EPT
