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On August 10 2012 18:50 Aelonius wrote:
Starstruck
Let me spell this out for you:
Having a casual wardrobe, that's fine.
Dressing like you're about to shoot an adult scene in terms of cleavage? That's not really helping your case.
I stopped listening to the video when I saw that, as I feel that it's too big of a point to just ignore. It stops many people to listen to the actual skills of the caster. It's been happening before. But just because you're silently drooling over her breasts, does not mean it's appropriate for the role she tries to fill in. Untill that is understood by the people that intend to cast, that there's a big group that's looking for good casts as opposed to good bodies being slammed in their face. If you want to see naked women, there's plenty of websites to go around, but don't come up and connect underdressed women with SC2. It will hurt the scene more than it'll help.
I don't know how you can be that slow. Two opposite worlds apparently. You aren't going to change how a person is. If you think you can change a person who is only being themselves then you have another fucking thing coming to ya buster.
Lots of women dress like her. Anywhere. It doesn't matter the setting.
Stop being foolish and grow up.
On August 11 2012 05:30 KwarK wrote:Show nested quote +On August 10 2012 22:10 TaraBabcock wrote:People like you are the ones objectifying women by saying that their being sexual is bad, not the men that like it and the women that do it. Don't push your prudish, outdated morals on others. The idea that anyone who doesn't want sexuality shoved in their face when they try to listen to a sc2 commentary is a prude is pretty fucking absurd. It's not prudish to want sexuality to not be used to dilute and draw attention from something you take seriously. I love boobs and I love sexuality and I'm happy to see boobs and enjoy the expressions of sexuality of people but I do those outside of when I'm listening to a sc2 commentary.
Goes back to what I said earlier, you don't actually she her while she's casting so I don't see the problem in that. Like you said, you're listening to the cast. ._.
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On August 10 2012 18:50 Aelonius wrote:
Starstruck
Let me spell this out for you:
Having a casual wardrobe, that's fine.
Dressing like you're about to shoot an adult scene in terms of cleavage? That's not really helping your case.
I stopped listening to the video when I saw that, as I feel that it's too big of a point to just ignore. It stops many people to listen to the actual skills of the caster. It's been happening before. But just because you're silently drooling over her breasts, does not mean it's appropriate for the role she tries to fill in. Untill that is understood by the people that intend to cast, that there's a big group that's looking for good casts as opposed to good bodies being slammed in their face. If you want to see naked women, there's plenty of websites to go around, but don't come up and connect underdressed women with SC2. It will hurt the scene more than it'll help.
Aelonius
Let me spell this out for you:
Dressing whatever way is fine.
Being a prude about a few minutes of looking at cleavage and then ignoring the cast itself? That's not really very open-minded.
I stopped taking your argument seriously as soon as I saw the corresponding sentence, as I feel being so judgemental is wrong. It stops me from listening when you say that appearance one way or the other is a factor in hearing someone cast. But just because you can't stop look and have to make angry comments about such, does not mean the rest of us share your adolescent tendencies. Until that is understood by people like you, there's a big group that doesn't give a damn. If you want to see highly conservative women's dress, go play SC2 in Iran, but don't come here bitching about how you can't stand someone's clothing. It hurts you and makes you look like a complete prude.
I actually don't know or care what TotalBiscuit looks like. His commentary is that good, so I don't give a damn about his appearance.
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Commentators don't get paid to look good unless they are Craig Sager. Yes, I know she's not being paid.
![[image loading]](http://media.shirtparty.eu/2012/05/Craig-Sager1.jpg)
Aside from that the commentary seemed to be just things as they were happening. No real insight or foresight. I don't think it's a bad thing to be "bubbly", for lack of a better word, but it was distracting at times.
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Norway28719 Posts
if tara babcock manages to develop her analytical ability to the level of the likes of apollo or artosis, or becomes capable of being a play by play commentator rivalling husky or djwheat, then hopefully her appearance is not going to be considered a detractor from her skill as a caster. But likewise, until she becomes as good as the aforementioned casters, or at least on the level of other event-casters, she doesn't get to cast any of them..
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On August 11 2012 07:16 tonight wrote:Commentators don't get paid to look good unless they are Craig Sager. Yes, I know she's not being paid. Aside from that the commentary seemed to be just things as they were happening. No real insight or foresight. I don't think it's a bad thing to be "bubbly", for lack of a better word, but it was distracting at times.
Unless you're Craig Sager? Excuse me. What about Don Cherry? He is the epitome of good looking commentators. Just look at that wardrobe. I think any SC2 commentator would be proud to have such a wide wardrobe of fine suits.
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To be completely honest, it was just boring. Put your personality into it, have energy. You're simply saying what you see, and it just makes it bland. Say what you think might happen, or play enough that you know what they're doing, what's important about the map in matchup XvY, etc.
Good luck!
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On August 11 2012 06:54 Praetorial wrote:Show nested quote +On August 10 2012 18:50 Aelonius wrote:
Starstruck
Let me spell this out for you:
Having a casual wardrobe, that's fine.
Dressing like you're about to shoot an adult scene in terms of cleavage? That's not really helping your case.
I stopped listening to the video when I saw that, as I feel that it's too big of a point to just ignore. It stops many people to listen to the actual skills of the caster. It's been happening before. But just because you're silently drooling over her breasts, does not mean it's appropriate for the role she tries to fill in. Untill that is understood by the people that intend to cast, that there's a big group that's looking for good casts as opposed to good bodies being slammed in their face. If you want to see naked women, there's plenty of websites to go around, but don't come up and connect underdressed women with SC2. It will hurt the scene more than it'll help. Aelonius Let me spell this out for you: Dressing whatever way is fine. Being a prude about a few minutes of looking at cleavage and then ignoring the cast itself? That's not really very open-minded. I stopped taking your argument seriously as soon as I saw the corresponding sentence, as I feel being so judgemental is wrong. It stops me from listening when you say that appearance one way or the other is a factor in hearing someone cast. But just because you can't stop look and have to make angry comments about such, does not mean the rest of us share your adolescent tendencies. Until that is understood by people like you, there's a big group that doesn't give a damn. If you want to see highly conservative women's dress, go play SC2 in Iran, but don't come here bitching about how you can't stand someone's clothing. It hurts you and makes you look like a complete prude. I actually don't know or care what TotalBiscuit looks like. His commentary is that good, so I don't give a damn about his appearance.
It's a simple thing.
You're asking for serious responses to your casting, which also includes appearance. Especially with professional aspirations. My point is simple, that during these casts it is better to adjust to your audience. Look at how tasteless does it in terms of profanity online and offline. The same with dressing. See Tastosis, you see a blouse and a tie, while under the desk they wear shorts. Yet we don't see what's under the desk, so it's not important. That's what I try to advocate here, and what a lot of people have been saying on numerous cases.
Edit to clarify:
There's a difference between being underdressed, and being properly dressed to the occasion. It is something you're going to have to think about if you make a public appearance.
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On August 11 2012 09:42 Aelonius wrote:Show nested quote +On August 11 2012 06:54 Praetorial wrote:On August 10 2012 18:50 Aelonius wrote:
Starstruck
Let me spell this out for you:
Having a casual wardrobe, that's fine.
Dressing like you're about to shoot an adult scene in terms of cleavage? That's not really helping your case.
I stopped listening to the video when I saw that, as I feel that it's too big of a point to just ignore. It stops many people to listen to the actual skills of the caster. It's been happening before. But just because you're silently drooling over her breasts, does not mean it's appropriate for the role she tries to fill in. Untill that is understood by the people that intend to cast, that there's a big group that's looking for good casts as opposed to good bodies being slammed in their face. If you want to see naked women, there's plenty of websites to go around, but don't come up and connect underdressed women with SC2. It will hurt the scene more than it'll help. Aelonius Let me spell this out for you: Dressing whatever way is fine. Being a prude about a few minutes of looking at cleavage and then ignoring the cast itself? That's not really very open-minded. I stopped taking your argument seriously as soon as I saw the corresponding sentence, as I feel being so judgemental is wrong. It stops me from listening when you say that appearance one way or the other is a factor in hearing someone cast. But just because you can't stop look and have to make angry comments about such, does not mean the rest of us share your adolescent tendencies. Until that is understood by people like you, there's a big group that doesn't give a damn. If you want to see highly conservative women's dress, go play SC2 in Iran, but don't come here bitching about how you can't stand someone's clothing. It hurts you and makes you look like a complete prude. I actually don't know or care what TotalBiscuit looks like. His commentary is that good, so I don't give a damn about his appearance. It's a simple thing. You're asking for serious responses to your casting, which also includes appearance. Especially with professional aspirations. My point is simple, that during these casts it is better to adjust to your audience. Look at how tasteless does it in terms of profanity online and offline. The same with dressing. See Tastosis, you see a blouse and a tie, while under the desk they wear shorts. Yet we don't see what's under the desk, so it's not important. That's what I try to advocate here, and what a lot of people have been saying on numerous cases.
First, I'm Praetorial, not sure whether you thought I was someone else from your response.
You're advocating that people dress according to how you perceive decency.
I'm going to go ahead and assume you're male. You probably agree with that wearing a speedo in combination with a revealing V-neck is very weird for a man when attempting to be professional, right?
I'm a guy, so are you, and as such we can easily judge whether casters like Day[9] and Tasteless are being professional or casual.
What we are not, however, is female. And the fact that you are trying to say what a female should wear so best to please your own sense of decency and dress is quite appalling.
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On August 11 2012 04:42 ninazerg wrote:Show nested quote +On August 10 2012 22:23 Jecko wrote:
There are 2 possible paths for women out there:
1. Tara (or anyone with cleavage) isn't part of the scene.
Result: Girls lack competition and therefore the drive to become better and prove themselves. They never have a moment of "sadness" that relates to the issue of Tara existing, but also therefore don't experience the self-improvement that they could go through if they had competition. If I was a girl, it would be a lot more motivating for me to try and prove that I'm better than Tara (the girl that's all boobs and bleach), than if there was no such person to compare myself to.
2. Tara (or anyone with cleavage) is part of the scene:
Result: People realize that women have a place in the community, and that having tits doesn't mean you are worthless or stupid. Instead, it seperates the physical from the mental, by SHOWING that girls come in various shapes/forms. Girls would get a bigger drive to compete, and we'd actually see some skill coming out of them.
Right now, all I see is girls complaining, and not many trying to actually improve in skill and show that they're valid as "gamers." Girls like Tara, and the other streamer girls, are displaying their trek to improvement, and hopefully their personalities and looks as well, just like the guys get to. This "Nina" person should just show us all how much of a better person she is because of her lack of tits, bleach, and attractiveness. I'd love to see how much she claims Tara supposedly missed out on in her life because of her priorities. So far the only quality I see in her is jealousy, which is the worst thing in a woman, and man. Whoa, hey. I'm not comparing myself to Tara at all. Tara hasn't "missed out on life", and I never suggested that. Therefore, because everyone feels the need to psycho-analyze my statements, I just though I should clarify a few things. I don't feel threatened or jealous of another StarCraft player who is more attractive than myself. That's ridonkulous to dwell on that sort of thing. There is, however, a double-standard here: Male gold-league player does commentary: Gets 500 views on blog, maybe a dozen youtube views, and some comments telling him to try harder. Overly-sexy female gold-league player does commentary: Gets over 9,000 views on blog, tons of comments and attention. Okay, so far, I have no problem. This is the way the world works. But I don't believe that Tara is stupid. Because she's a model, I don't think she would ever just go on camera wearing "whatever". If you want to make a side-career out of casting, you need a popular stream/channel. To have a popular stream/channel, you need something that appeals to the viewers. That means you need a niche, and Tara's niche is clearly 'being sexy', because it's no secret that most of the gamer community is made of men, and this fact can be exploited. When I said "You look like a freaking Barbie Doll", it wasn't me saying Tara is ugly. Quite the opposite; I acknowledge that boys are going to find her attractive, and while I have no problem with her being comfortable with her sexuality, I do have a problem with her building a business based on flaunting her sexuality. Again, everything about her look seems to be a calculated get-up to bring in more male viewers. In a game where skills are supposed to bring you respect, I think it would be a travesty if someone flaunting their sexuality made the same kinds of viewer numbers as a respected progamer or professional commentator. And it could happen - sex sells- but if the community wants it, then fine. I'm personally stating that I'm strongly opposed to a "sexy commentary > skillful commentary" and I have a perfectly legitimate right to that opinion. Tara can deny deny deny that this is her intention, but again, I don't believe she's stupid at all. If she, as a professional model, didn't consider her appearance on camera, that would be unthinkable. I can't imagine her just going "Liek omg, I'm just gonna throw on whateva, then talk about StarCraft on ma computer and I hope it goes okay." without some pre-planning or consideration beforehand. If it sounds like I'm being harsh... well, I am being harsh. But I'm not attacking Tara as a person, and I can only wish her the best in life. I hope that makes sense, but then again, everything I just said is probably going to be taken wildly out of context, but, c'est la vie.
Honestly, thanks for taking the time to reply and to actually make a detailed statement. I feel less like you are just busting out the jealousy now, and more like you have an opinion--and everyone is entitled to theirs!
I sometimes feel bad for exactly what you stated above: I will be more popular than someone who doesn't have the "assets" that I do, for the most part. Then, I remember how much time and effort I put into the way I look, and my career and time I spent, investing in a loyal fan base. Yes, there are people that get things they don't deserve, but that's life. I don't feel like I am one of those, however.
Everyone has something interesting and special about them, some people may have to just pay for marketing and hope it works. Life is not 100% fair, and I am sorry you disagree that my sexuality can be seen just as Day[9]'s laugh, or some other thing that makes people interested in, and love, other eSports personalities.
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On August 11 2012 05:30 KwarK wrote:Show nested quote +On August 10 2012 22:10 TaraBabcock wrote:People like you are the ones objectifying women by saying that their being sexual is bad, not the men that like it and the women that do it. Don't push your prudish, outdated morals on others. The idea that anyone who doesn't want sexuality shoved in their face when they try to listen to a sc2 commentary is a prude is pretty fucking absurd. It's not prudish to want sexuality to not be used to dilute and draw attention from something you take seriously. I love boobs and I love sexuality and I'm happy to see boobs and enjoy the expressions of sexuality of people but I do those outside of when I'm listening to a sc2 commentary.
IMO, that's ridiculous. I don't go, "Oh, I love muscles, but I just can't concentrate on SC2 when Khaldor wears his muscle shirt! ZOMG PLEASE COVER UP!"
IMO it's the best of both worlds so, if you don't like my casting, don't watch. If you don't like the cleavage, ignore it... or don't watch. Most people will just think it's a cool added touch, or interesting that I am able to break stereotypes.
And for the other guy who said I won't get jobs if I am not on the level of other casters... Exactly! That's what I am saying. This is not a plea to put me on the payroll as a caster before I am ready... just because I am "sexy". >.<
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On August 11 2012 09:53 Praetorial wrote:
First, I'm Praetorial, not sure whether you thought I was someone else from your response.
You're advocating that people dress according to how you perceive decency.
I'm going to go ahead and assume you're male. You probably agree with that wearing a speedo in combination with a revealing V-neck is very weird for a man when attempting to be professional, right?
I'm a guy, so are you, and as such we can easily judge whether casters like Day[9] and Tasteless are being professional or casual.
What we are not, however, is female. And the fact that you are trying to say what a female should wear so best to please your own sense of decency and dress is quite appalling.
Alright, for the first remark. It's probaly badly worded but I guess in the context you'll get what I mean.
The main reason why I am so adamant about this subject, is due to the fact that in the last few months, if you pay attention to teamliquid, reddit etc, you'd see a trend where a majority of people want to move towards people who are more professional. Man or woman. See the Orb trouble. Destiny's use of words that some deem questionable.
There's also a lot of men and women AGAINST the status quo of the gaming scene being male dominated. Oversexualisation of content will not help to get towards this point where both man and woman love to play games and be open for it. Yet here we are, someone is obviously wearing revealing clothing and we're now entangled in a battle of morals.
My view is that we should work towards an equality, where your achievements matter, and not if you wear a low cut, cleavage showing shirt.Where skill makes the caster, disregarding gender. I do not expect you to share my view, but I do want to ask you to try and see it from that perspective. It does not help if a person which asks for feedback, then ignores the fundamental feedback that a group of people give. I feel that the attire of Tara in her position and with her goals, will not help her in eSports, and it won't help this community to grow. That's why I say that it's important to keep that in mind.
There's more ways to put it.
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On August 11 2012 10:19 Aelonius wrote:Show nested quote +On August 11 2012 09:53 Praetorial wrote:
First, I'm Praetorial, not sure whether you thought I was someone else from your response.
You're advocating that people dress according to how you perceive decency.
I'm going to go ahead and assume you're male. You probably agree with that wearing a speedo in combination with a revealing V-neck is very weird for a man when attempting to be professional, right?
I'm a guy, so are you, and as such we can easily judge whether casters like Day[9] and Tasteless are being professional or casual.
What we are not, however, is female. And the fact that you are trying to say what a female should wear so best to please your own sense of decency and dress is quite appalling.
Alright, for the first remark. It's probaly badly worded but I guess in the context you'll get what I mean. The main reason why I am so adamant about this subject, is due to the fact that in the last few months, if you pay attention to teamliquid, reddit etc, you'd see a trend where a majority of people want to move towards people who are more professional. Man or woman. See the Orb trouble. Destiny's use of words that some deem questionable. There's also a lot of men and women AGAINST the status quo of the gaming scene being male dominated. Oversexualisation of content will not help to get towards this point where both man and woman love to play games and be open for it. Yet here we are, someone is obviously wearing revealing clothing and we're now entangled in a battle of morals. My view is that we should work towards an equality, where your achievements matter, and not if you wear a low cut, cleavage showing shirt.Where skill makes the caster, disregarding gender. I do not expect you to share my view, but I do want to ask you to try and see it from that perspective. It does not help if a person which asks for feedback, then ignores the fundamental feedback that a group of people give. I feel that the attire of Tara in her position and with her goals, will not help her in eSports, and it won't help this community to grow. That's why I say that it's important to keep that in mind. There's more ways to put it.
This. Imagine if she wore a shirt less revealing. There wouldn't be a shit storm of this magnitude
EDIT: That said, I'm not blaming anyone here. It's in the female nature to do such things. Their brains are hardwired to sell us on their physical attractiveness which is what explains all them facebook profile pics of half-face full chest shots. However I do believe that if she wore a less revealing shirt, it would have been more professional (if trying to come across in that way)
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FuDDx
United States5008 Posts
This is my opinion....
I could not finish the intro sorry, and yes it was because your boobs were staring me in the face again sorry, but they were. Its not the thing I find professional by any means. I am not trying to pick on you or be mean but at a glance I think fake barbie and wont give you the time of day be it in a game,casting, in the grocery store or a porno. It is not right by any means but I will and do judge you by your looks at first and your first glance did not offer me anything I am interested in. But good luck there are tons of hormone ridden kids waiting !!!
Really wish you the best! Good luck!!
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On August 11 2012 10:19 Aelonius wrote:Show nested quote +On August 11 2012 09:53 Praetorial wrote:
First, I'm Praetorial, not sure whether you thought I was someone else from your response.
You're advocating that people dress according to how you perceive decency.
I'm going to go ahead and assume you're male. You probably agree with that wearing a speedo in combination with a revealing V-neck is very weird for a man when attempting to be professional, right?
I'm a guy, so are you, and as such we can easily judge whether casters like Day[9] and Tasteless are being professional or casual.
What we are not, however, is female. And the fact that you are trying to say what a female should wear so best to please your own sense of decency and dress is quite appalling.
Alright, for the first remark. It's probaly badly worded but I guess in the context you'll get what I mean. The main reason why I am so adamant about this subject, is due to the fact that in the last few months, if you pay attention to teamliquid, reddit etc, you'd see a trend where a majority of people want to move towards people who are more professional. Man or woman. See the Orb trouble. Destiny's use of words that some deem questionable. There's also a lot of men and women AGAINST the status quo of the gaming scene being male dominated. Oversexualisation of content will not help to get towards this point where both man and woman love to play games and be open for it. Yet here we are, someone is obviously wearing revealing clothing and we're now entangled in a battle of morals. My view is that we should work towards an equality, where your achievements matter, and not if you wear a low cut, cleavage showing shirt.Where skill makes the caster, disregarding gender. I do not expect you to share my view, but I do want to ask you to try and see it from that perspective. It does not help if a person which asks for feedback, then ignores the fundamental feedback that a group of people give. I feel that the attire of Tara in her position and with her goals, will not help her in eSports, and it won't help this community to grow. That's why I say that it's important to keep that in mind. There's more ways to put it.
So, as I understand it, what you are saying amounts to:
We should be a more professional community, get rid of people who blatantly refuse to be professional
The gaming scene should be less sexualized.
Up until here I understood. Then the bolded line.
Tara is responding, quite actively, as you may have noticed, to genuine criticism of her casting. That is all well and good, since that's where she needs to improve.
If you're so high-and-mighty about equality, Aelonius, and skill being the only thing that matters, why the f*** are you talking about her looks alone and not giving one whit of useful feedback about her casting?
Practice what you preach!
On August 11 2012 10:22 Elegance wrote:Show nested quote +On August 11 2012 10:19 Aelonius wrote:On August 11 2012 09:53 Praetorial wrote:
First, I'm Praetorial, not sure whether you thought I was someone else from your response.
You're advocating that people dress according to how you perceive decency.
I'm going to go ahead and assume you're male. You probably agree with that wearing a speedo in combination with a revealing V-neck is very weird for a man when attempting to be professional, right?
I'm a guy, so are you, and as such we can easily judge whether casters like Day[9] and Tasteless are being professional or casual.
What we are not, however, is female. And the fact that you are trying to say what a female should wear so best to please your own sense of decency and dress is quite appalling.
Alright, for the first remark. It's probaly badly worded but I guess in the context you'll get what I mean. The main reason why I am so adamant about this subject, is due to the fact that in the last few months, if you pay attention to teamliquid, reddit etc, you'd see a trend where a majority of people want to move towards people who are more professional. Man or woman. See the Orb trouble. Destiny's use of words that some deem questionable. There's also a lot of men and women AGAINST the status quo of the gaming scene being male dominated. Oversexualisation of content will not help to get towards this point where both man and woman love to play games and be open for it. Yet here we are, someone is obviously wearing revealing clothing and we're now entangled in a battle of morals. My view is that we should work towards an equality, where your achievements matter, and not if you wear a low cut, cleavage showing shirt.Where skill makes the caster, disregarding gender. I do not expect you to share my view, but I do want to ask you to try and see it from that perspective. It does not help if a person which asks for feedback, then ignores the fundamental feedback that a group of people give. I feel that the attire of Tara in her position and with her goals, will not help her in eSports, and it won't help this community to grow. That's why I say that it's important to keep that in mind. There's more ways to put it. This. Imagine if she wore a shirt less revealing. There wouldn't be a shit storm of this magnitude EDIT: That said, I'm not blaming anyone here. It's in the female nature to do such things. Their brains are hardwired to sell us on their physical attractiveness which is what explains all them facebook profile pics of half-face full chest shots. However I do believe that if she wore a less revealing shirt, it would have been more professional (if trying to come across in that way)
I really hate to use this line, but look at your statement, I'm gonna call it blatantly sexist.
Go live in Iran if you want to see all women in public dress conservatively, you idiot.
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Korea (South)17174 Posts
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I'm sure if she showed up in a suit we'd all be making fun of it, since it would look weird for her to be at home in a suit like a weirdo. So this isn't at all about how "professional" she's dressed, it's about covering up her cleavage. This would entail her wearing an entirely different kind of shirt, because her boobs are big, and most of the shirts she wears would just look weird if she just pulled them up.
She's already stated that in a professional setting, she'd wear a suit or w/e is necessary, so this "advice" has already been taken into consideration, not ignored as stated by Aelonus: "It does not help if a person which asks for feedback, then ignores the fundamental feedback that a group of people give." So now everyone should chill and stop saying shit like "I could not finish the intro sorry, and yes it was because your boobs were staring me in the face again sorry, but they were", because that's just annoying and disrespectful.
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On August 11 2012 11:08 Praetorial wrote:Show nested quote +On August 11 2012 10:19 Aelonius wrote:On August 11 2012 09:53 Praetorial wrote:
First, I'm Praetorial, not sure whether you thought I was someone else from your response.
You're advocating that people dress according to how you perceive decency.
I'm going to go ahead and assume you're male. You probably agree with that wearing a speedo in combination with a revealing V-neck is very weird for a man when attempting to be professional, right?
I'm a guy, so are you, and as such we can easily judge whether casters like Day[9] and Tasteless are being professional or casual.
What we are not, however, is female. And the fact that you are trying to say what a female should wear so best to please your own sense of decency and dress is quite appalling.
Alright, for the first remark. It's probaly badly worded but I guess in the context you'll get what I mean. The main reason why I am so adamant about this subject, is due to the fact that in the last few months, if you pay attention to teamliquid, reddit etc, you'd see a trend where a majority of people want to move towards people who are more professional. Man or woman. See the Orb trouble. Destiny's use of words that some deem questionable. There's also a lot of men and women AGAINST the status quo of the gaming scene being male dominated. Oversexualisation of content will not help to get towards this point where both man and woman love to play games and be open for it. Yet here we are, someone is obviously wearing revealing clothing and we're now entangled in a battle of morals. My view is that we should work towards an equality, where your achievements matter, and not if you wear a low cut, cleavage showing shirt.Where skill makes the caster, disregarding gender. I do not expect you to share my view, but I do want to ask you to try and see it from that perspective. It does not help if a person which asks for feedback, then ignores the fundamental feedback that a group of people give. I feel that the attire of Tara in her position and with her goals, will not help her in eSports, and it won't help this community to grow. That's why I say that it's important to keep that in mind. There's more ways to put it. So, as I understand it, what you are saying amounts to: We should be a more professional community, get rid of people who blatantly refuse to be professional
The gaming scene should be less sexualized.Up until here I understood. Then the bolded line. Tara is responding, quite actively, as you may have noticed, to genuine criticism of her casting. That is all well and good, since that's where she needs to improve. If you're so high-and-mighty about equality, Aelonius, and skill being the only thing that matters, why the f*** are you talking about her looks alone and not giving one whit of useful feedback about her casting? Practice what you preach! Show nested quote +On August 11 2012 10:22 Elegance wrote:On August 11 2012 10:19 Aelonius wrote:On August 11 2012 09:53 Praetorial wrote:
First, I'm Praetorial, not sure whether you thought I was someone else from your response.
You're advocating that people dress according to how you perceive decency.
I'm going to go ahead and assume you're male. You probably agree with that wearing a speedo in combination with a revealing V-neck is very weird for a man when attempting to be professional, right?
I'm a guy, so are you, and as such we can easily judge whether casters like Day[9] and Tasteless are being professional or casual.
What we are not, however, is female. And the fact that you are trying to say what a female should wear so best to please your own sense of decency and dress is quite appalling.
Alright, for the first remark. It's probaly badly worded but I guess in the context you'll get what I mean. The main reason why I am so adamant about this subject, is due to the fact that in the last few months, if you pay attention to teamliquid, reddit etc, you'd see a trend where a majority of people want to move towards people who are more professional. Man or woman. See the Orb trouble. Destiny's use of words that some deem questionable. There's also a lot of men and women AGAINST the status quo of the gaming scene being male dominated. Oversexualisation of content will not help to get towards this point where both man and woman love to play games and be open for it. Yet here we are, someone is obviously wearing revealing clothing and we're now entangled in a battle of morals. My view is that we should work towards an equality, where your achievements matter, and not if you wear a low cut, cleavage showing shirt.Where skill makes the caster, disregarding gender. I do not expect you to share my view, but I do want to ask you to try and see it from that perspective. It does not help if a person which asks for feedback, then ignores the fundamental feedback that a group of people give. I feel that the attire of Tara in her position and with her goals, will not help her in eSports, and it won't help this community to grow. That's why I say that it's important to keep that in mind. There's more ways to put it. This. Imagine if she wore a shirt less revealing. There wouldn't be a shit storm of this magnitude EDIT: That said, I'm not blaming anyone here. It's in the female nature to do such things. Their brains are hardwired to sell us on their physical attractiveness which is what explains all them facebook profile pics of half-face full chest shots. However I do believe that if she wore a less revealing shirt, it would have been more professional (if trying to come across in that way) I really hate to use this line, but look at your statement, I'm gonna call it blatantly sexist. Go live in Iran if you want to see all women in public dress conservatively, you idiot.
I don't even know why you are telling me to go live in Iran when I clearly said that its just female nature and it is what it is and I accept it. I just said that this is hard to take seriously because of how she dressed. What is your problem? you need to stop jacking off with a sandpaper
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On August 11 2012 11:17 Elegance wrote:Show nested quote +On August 11 2012 11:08 Praetorial wrote:On August 11 2012 10:19 Aelonius wrote:On August 11 2012 09:53 Praetorial wrote:
First, I'm Praetorial, not sure whether you thought I was someone else from your response.
You're advocating that people dress according to how you perceive decency.
I'm going to go ahead and assume you're male. You probably agree with that wearing a speedo in combination with a revealing V-neck is very weird for a man when attempting to be professional, right?
I'm a guy, so are you, and as such we can easily judge whether casters like Day[9] and Tasteless are being professional or casual.
What we are not, however, is female. And the fact that you are trying to say what a female should wear so best to please your own sense of decency and dress is quite appalling.
Alright, for the first remark. It's probaly badly worded but I guess in the context you'll get what I mean. The main reason why I am so adamant about this subject, is due to the fact that in the last few months, if you pay attention to teamliquid, reddit etc, you'd see a trend where a majority of people want to move towards people who are more professional. Man or woman. See the Orb trouble. Destiny's use of words that some deem questionable. There's also a lot of men and women AGAINST the status quo of the gaming scene being male dominated. Oversexualisation of content will not help to get towards this point where both man and woman love to play games and be open for it. Yet here we are, someone is obviously wearing revealing clothing and we're now entangled in a battle of morals. My view is that we should work towards an equality, where your achievements matter, and not if you wear a low cut, cleavage showing shirt.Where skill makes the caster, disregarding gender. I do not expect you to share my view, but I do want to ask you to try and see it from that perspective. It does not help if a person which asks for feedback, then ignores the fundamental feedback that a group of people give. I feel that the attire of Tara in her position and with her goals, will not help her in eSports, and it won't help this community to grow. That's why I say that it's important to keep that in mind. There's more ways to put it. So, as I understand it, what you are saying amounts to: We should be a more professional community, get rid of people who blatantly refuse to be professional
The gaming scene should be less sexualized.Up until here I understood. Then the bolded line. Tara is responding, quite actively, as you may have noticed, to genuine criticism of her casting. That is all well and good, since that's where she needs to improve. If you're so high-and-mighty about equality, Aelonius, and skill being the only thing that matters, why the f*** are you talking about her looks alone and not giving one whit of useful feedback about her casting? Practice what you preach! On August 11 2012 10:22 Elegance wrote:On August 11 2012 10:19 Aelonius wrote:On August 11 2012 09:53 Praetorial wrote:
First, I'm Praetorial, not sure whether you thought I was someone else from your response.
You're advocating that people dress according to how you perceive decency.
I'm going to go ahead and assume you're male. You probably agree with that wearing a speedo in combination with a revealing V-neck is very weird for a man when attempting to be professional, right?
I'm a guy, so are you, and as such we can easily judge whether casters like Day[9] and Tasteless are being professional or casual.
What we are not, however, is female. And the fact that you are trying to say what a female should wear so best to please your own sense of decency and dress is quite appalling.
Alright, for the first remark. It's probaly badly worded but I guess in the context you'll get what I mean. The main reason why I am so adamant about this subject, is due to the fact that in the last few months, if you pay attention to teamliquid, reddit etc, you'd see a trend where a majority of people want to move towards people who are more professional. Man or woman. See the Orb trouble. Destiny's use of words that some deem questionable. There's also a lot of men and women AGAINST the status quo of the gaming scene being male dominated. Oversexualisation of content will not help to get towards this point where both man and woman love to play games and be open for it. Yet here we are, someone is obviously wearing revealing clothing and we're now entangled in a battle of morals. My view is that we should work towards an equality, where your achievements matter, and not if you wear a low cut, cleavage showing shirt.Where skill makes the caster, disregarding gender. I do not expect you to share my view, but I do want to ask you to try and see it from that perspective. It does not help if a person which asks for feedback, then ignores the fundamental feedback that a group of people give. I feel that the attire of Tara in her position and with her goals, will not help her in eSports, and it won't help this community to grow. That's why I say that it's important to keep that in mind. There's more ways to put it. This. Imagine if she wore a shirt less revealing. There wouldn't be a shit storm of this magnitude EDIT: That said, I'm not blaming anyone here. It's in the female nature to do such things. Their brains are hardwired to sell us on their physical attractiveness which is what explains all them facebook profile pics of half-face full chest shots. However I do believe that if she wore a less revealing shirt, it would have been more professional (if trying to come across in that way) I really hate to use this line, but look at your statement, I'm gonna call it blatantly sexist. Go live in Iran if you want to see all women in public dress conservatively, you idiot. I don't even know why you are telling me to go live in Iran when I clearly said that its just female nature and it is what it is and I accept it. I just said that this is hard to take seriously because of how she dressed. What is your problem? you need to stop jacking off with a sandpaper
This
It's in the female nature to do such things. Their brains are hardwired to sell us on their physical attractiveness which is what explains all them facebook profile pics of half-face full chest shots
Was pretty fucking annoying, enough to call you a sexist.
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This is why female gamers will never be taken seriously. That and they just are not good. Instead of trying to sell us on your body, sell us on what you have to offer in terms of starcraft, if anything.
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On August 11 2012 11:20 Praetorial wrote:Show nested quote +On August 11 2012 11:17 Elegance wrote:On August 11 2012 11:08 Praetorial wrote:On August 11 2012 10:19 Aelonius wrote:On August 11 2012 09:53 Praetorial wrote:
First, I'm Praetorial, not sure whether you thought I was someone else from your response.
You're advocating that people dress according to how you perceive decency.
I'm going to go ahead and assume you're male. You probably agree with that wearing a speedo in combination with a revealing V-neck is very weird for a man when attempting to be professional, right?
I'm a guy, so are you, and as such we can easily judge whether casters like Day[9] and Tasteless are being professional or casual.
What we are not, however, is female. And the fact that you are trying to say what a female should wear so best to please your own sense of decency and dress is quite appalling.
Alright, for the first remark. It's probaly badly worded but I guess in the context you'll get what I mean. The main reason why I am so adamant about this subject, is due to the fact that in the last few months, if you pay attention to teamliquid, reddit etc, you'd see a trend where a majority of people want to move towards people who are more professional. Man or woman. See the Orb trouble. Destiny's use of words that some deem questionable. There's also a lot of men and women AGAINST the status quo of the gaming scene being male dominated. Oversexualisation of content will not help to get towards this point where both man and woman love to play games and be open for it. Yet here we are, someone is obviously wearing revealing clothing and we're now entangled in a battle of morals. My view is that we should work towards an equality, where your achievements matter, and not if you wear a low cut, cleavage showing shirt.Where skill makes the caster, disregarding gender. I do not expect you to share my view, but I do want to ask you to try and see it from that perspective. It does not help if a person which asks for feedback, then ignores the fundamental feedback that a group of people give. I feel that the attire of Tara in her position and with her goals, will not help her in eSports, and it won't help this community to grow. That's why I say that it's important to keep that in mind. There's more ways to put it. So, as I understand it, what you are saying amounts to: We should be a more professional community, get rid of people who blatantly refuse to be professional
The gaming scene should be less sexualized.Up until here I understood. Then the bolded line. Tara is responding, quite actively, as you may have noticed, to genuine criticism of her casting. That is all well and good, since that's where she needs to improve. If you're so high-and-mighty about equality, Aelonius, and skill being the only thing that matters, why the f*** are you talking about her looks alone and not giving one whit of useful feedback about her casting? Practice what you preach! On August 11 2012 10:22 Elegance wrote:On August 11 2012 10:19 Aelonius wrote:On August 11 2012 09:53 Praetorial wrote:
First, I'm Praetorial, not sure whether you thought I was someone else from your response.
You're advocating that people dress according to how you perceive decency.
I'm going to go ahead and assume you're male. You probably agree with that wearing a speedo in combination with a revealing V-neck is very weird for a man when attempting to be professional, right?
I'm a guy, so are you, and as such we can easily judge whether casters like Day[9] and Tasteless are being professional or casual.
What we are not, however, is female. And the fact that you are trying to say what a female should wear so best to please your own sense of decency and dress is quite appalling.
Alright, for the first remark. It's probaly badly worded but I guess in the context you'll get what I mean. The main reason why I am so adamant about this subject, is due to the fact that in the last few months, if you pay attention to teamliquid, reddit etc, you'd see a trend where a majority of people want to move towards people who are more professional. Man or woman. See the Orb trouble. Destiny's use of words that some deem questionable. There's also a lot of men and women AGAINST the status quo of the gaming scene being male dominated. Oversexualisation of content will not help to get towards this point where both man and woman love to play games and be open for it. Yet here we are, someone is obviously wearing revealing clothing and we're now entangled in a battle of morals. My view is that we should work towards an equality, where your achievements matter, and not if you wear a low cut, cleavage showing shirt.Where skill makes the caster, disregarding gender. I do not expect you to share my view, but I do want to ask you to try and see it from that perspective. It does not help if a person which asks for feedback, then ignores the fundamental feedback that a group of people give. I feel that the attire of Tara in her position and with her goals, will not help her in eSports, and it won't help this community to grow. That's why I say that it's important to keep that in mind. There's more ways to put it. This. Imagine if she wore a shirt less revealing. There wouldn't be a shit storm of this magnitude EDIT: That said, I'm not blaming anyone here. It's in the female nature to do such things. Their brains are hardwired to sell us on their physical attractiveness which is what explains all them facebook profile pics of half-face full chest shots. However I do believe that if she wore a less revealing shirt, it would have been more professional (if trying to come across in that way) I really hate to use this line, but look at your statement, I'm gonna call it blatantly sexist. Go live in Iran if you want to see all women in public dress conservatively, you idiot. I don't even know why you are telling me to go live in Iran when I clearly said that its just female nature and it is what it is and I accept it. I just said that this is hard to take seriously because of how she dressed. What is your problem? you need to stop jacking off with a sandpaper This Show nested quote +
It's in the female nature to do such things. Their brains are hardwired to sell us on their physical attractiveness which is what explains all them facebook profile pics of half-face full chest shots
Was pretty fucking annoying, enough to call you a sexist.
I can see that you deny that claim, but you can't just call me sexist with that comment. Men and women are different. How we attract the opposite sex is different. It is absolutely no lie that males value looks, tits and ass quite highly in a female. The females know this and showcase it to beat out the other girls. Believe what you want but that's how we've evolved. So don't call other people sexist for pointing out that men have penis and women have vaginas. Thanks
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EPT
